how do I get ASD child to clean his teeth properly?

[shutupaboutstarwars]

8 year old DS1 with (high functioning) ASD isn't cleaning his teeth properly. only 3 months since we last went to the dentist and they cleaned the tarter off his teeth and it is starting to build up again around his lower incisors and his gums bleed when we clean his teeth properly. he is later than all of his classmates to get adult teeth through and has only lost 4 teeth so far
he is quite willing to clean his teeth apart from when he feels as though we have tried to explain things to him again but we can't seem to be able to help him to do them properly himself. he has problems with both fine and gross motor control as well as transfering verbal instructions to physical acts. we have a children's electric toothbrush. anytime we try and help we just seem to be able to get him to do something a little different but not actually helping properly. eg he was cleaning just the top of his teeth and when we tried to get him to clean further towards the gum he ended up cleaning the gum itself and not the tooth. at one point he was just holding the toothbrush so it was barely touching the tooth and now he is sometimes applying too much pressure or ending up with so much toothpasty spit in his mouth and having it dribble out and having to be reminded to spit it out.
any suggestions, as anything we seem to say or do isn't making things any better and I don't think that just doing it for him is a long term option either

[MareeyaDolores]

Electric toothbrush and (previously) a headlock
Possibly traumatised, but they have lovely teeth though

[shutupaboutstarwars]

disclosing tablet sounds as very good idea, he is much better when he can see what is going wrong rather than just have someone describe it. the spit is only really a problem if he gets ready in the morning in the wrong order (has to reminded most mornings about something or other than he hasn't quite got around to doing yet). couldn't care less about him getting it down his pyjamas, but his school uniform is a different matter, or if he manages to get it on the floor again for DS2 to fall over on it again (suspect dyspraxia but he is only 3 at the moment).
we have an oral b children's electric toothbrush for him at the moment

[MareeyaDolores]

Or this?

[shutupaboutstarwars]

think the collis curve toothbrush looks a very good idea. wish I'd known about when I had braces as a teenager.
we do try timetables/lists. he usually has one in his schoolbag to try and get him to remember to bring everything home. he still frequently forgets to pick things up. we do written lists. I think he's look at us a bit wierdly if we tried pictures as his reading is great. (the biggest problem we have with reading is getting him to stop reading and go to sleep, after trial and error we now give him a few minutes warning before it is time to put the light out, recently progressing to finding a good place for him to stop reading and turning the light out himself).
I thought "bonding" had to wait until the adult teeth were properly through. I remember getting mine done but can't actually remember how old I was

[Ellenora5]

Oh I hear you op, my ds has still not got the hang of it properly and he is 11, have you tried a mirror, if he is watching what he is doing it might help, my dentist also said not to spit out, ds also uses a superbrush, it's three sided if you know what I mean and it makes it a lot easier, also corsodyl gel for the gums is very good, but don't use it for too long, will he floss or would he let you floss, my ds wouldn't,he hated it. I still brush them in the moring and he does them in the evening. Ds had a lot of teeth pulled under anastethic a few months ago and I can't risk that happening again.

[shutupaboutstarwars]

never tried flossing with him. I hate flossing, feels wrong so I wouldn't be any good at showing him(my teeth are very close together and I struggle to get the floss down between teeth, even the flat stuff, or it could be some of my own autistic type tendancies appearing) but some of the tarter is forming on the front of the teeth where flossing won't help. and I don't really want to encourage him to put things that could be swallowed like that in his mouth. he will sometimes start chewing on odd things when he gets distracted. and then he can lack to common sense to stop. (similar to the lego incident recently where he got a bit of lego in his nostril and thought he could use his finger to hook it out and just pushed it further in, doctors/nurses in casualty said that they normally see things like that in toddlers not 8 year olds until we mentioned ASD)
I have used corsodyl mouthwash in the past and think that it is such a strong taste that he wouldn't cope with it, is the gel any better? (minty toothpaste is fine)

[pinkorkid]

link here: www.autism.org.uk/working-with/health/information-for-dentists.aspx to article from national autistic society with some useful tips in.

I also recently read an article in the Times (can't link because of the paywall) about a natural sugar xylitol which some dentists claim is effective in preventing cavities if taken in correct dose on regular basis. Only known side-effect that it can have laxative effect in large doses.

wikipedia link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol

[fasparent]

Make it a social event, with your self, siberlings etc. , Our 18 month thinks is great cleaning her teeth with Mum, Dad, and sisters.

[FeelsSad]

Adult electric toothbrush with a light on that comes when you press too hard on the brush.
It taught ds how to apply the right amount of pressure (just at the limit when the light comes on).
ds also loved the disclosing tablets they've used at school.
The toothbrush we have also give a little signal every 30s so it tell you when to move on from one area of the mouth to the other (one side, one front, other front and then the last side). ds liked the 'procedure' side of things too.

[moosemama]

Ds's OT recommended the Collis Curve toothbrush for him. He has hypermobility and can't manouvre the toothbrush properly in his mouth, so doesn't manage to clean them effectively.

We are thinking of trying disclosing tablets with him as well. He's also been referred to a SEN dentist by the OT to see if they can offer us any more advice, so that might be worth looking into as well.