Here some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on SN.

Help help help help - my pants are on fire - blardy racist feckers.....

(39 Posts)

www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/278458/0083689.pdf

Last sentence at bottom of page 163.

I'm so shock tbh I don't know what to say/do!?

Bluebirdonmyshoulder Tue 26-Feb-13 13:31:24

Words fail me.....

TheNebulousBoojum Tue 26-Feb-13 13:36:54

Umm, explain a bit further please.
I've worked with a lot of families from the Indian sub-continent, and many of them are unsure that the needs of their children will be taken seriously, that it won't be written off as a language issue and that their child won't be marginalised. Partly it may be their own experiences of education in their home country, partly a lack of confidence and awareness of how the system is supposed to work in this country.
On training days, we are still being reminded not to put EAL children in with SEN as a matter of course, the same advice I was given thirty years ago. So it is still happening, and vice versa, that SN are possibly being overlooked because of a child's ethnicity.
I don't think the report was saying that it was a fact, but that may be how parents from some backgrounds may perceive it.

I really have to explain it? shock

TheNebulousBoojum Tue 26-Feb-13 13:45:51

'Identification rates of the child’s disability before school age are much lower in communities originating from the Indian subcontinent living in the UK. It has been proposed that professionals may also contribute to this lowered identification rate. They may recognise the difficulty and simply attribute it to poor language skills, differences in parenting styles or some other factor rather than diagnose it
as a disability (Reading, 1999).

Some families from ethnic minorities feel that their beliefs and needs will either be ignored or misunderstood and ridiculed by the white service provider (Shah, 1995).'

Racism or lack of knowledge about the cultures they are dealing with? Are you saying that the last sentence is racist? That the parents are wrong? Or that they are correct and their beliefs and needs will be ignored by racist professionals? Or that, as I believe, there is a need for education and collaboration on both sides in order to meet the needs of the child appropriately?

TheNebulousBoojum Tue 26-Feb-13 13:46:28

If I've misunderstood, then educate me.

babiki Tue 26-Feb-13 13:49:57

I don't get it either.

Are all service-providers always white? Is that the natural order of things so much so they can write it as fact in a government document?

If they wanted to speak of conflicts between ethic groups or even between majority an minority groups they could have done so without the racism.

TheNebulousBoojum Tue 26-Feb-13 13:55:34

But does it say that?
I've worked on my own and with interpreters and in professional settings and at the parental home. Many parents are suspicious of white service providers, especially if they are first generation immigrants and unfamiliar with the system.

MareeyaDolores Tue 26-Feb-13 13:55:39

Star, I blame the research. The entire section on ethnicity is derived from just one widely quoted but ancient reference, from 1995 (well, actually 1992, but revised 3y later).

I wonder about the evidence base of the rest... no actually, I don't wonder sad Wasn't there a mother who challenged the ABA section, and the entire treatments bit had to be rewritten cos it was so badly researched?

MareeyaDolores Tue 26-Feb-13 13:56:09

not perfect but more modern contrast

MareeyaDolores Tue 26-Feb-13 13:57:11

Oh, and white parents think they'll be listened to hmm

I don't read it as the service provider always being white. I think the point is that some families from an ethnic minority background don't feel that white service providers take their problems seriously - (the implication being that service providers of another ethnicity would). To me, that's why they're defining it as white service providers.

ouryve Tue 26-Feb-13 14:00:42

Are all service-providers always white?

Absolutely not. DS2's lovely paediatrician is black and DS1's psych is Asian. We don't even live in a distinctly multicultural part of the world.

I take the last sentence as reportage of how parents perceive the services they receive, whether their perception is accurate and fair or not. I suppose the nearest thing we would commonly experience, as white mothers, is being instantly written off as neurotic by a professional. Or instantly being talked down to because of where we live, rather than being listened to, because it's assumed that we have no education or knowledge.

TheNebulousBoojum Tue 26-Feb-13 14:02:40

That's a very interesting read, Mareeya.
Thank you for the link.

babiki Tue 26-Feb-13 14:04:39

I think it's the perception of providers as being white. Statistically in UK, majority of them are white anyway, aren't they?

tabulahrasa Tue 26-Feb-13 14:13:46

I think it means perception as well, but also - it's Scottish...so um, their perception of white service providers isn't that out tbh.

But you would mention them as the majority ethnic group, not the white group of professionals.

tabulahrasa Tue 26-Feb-13 14:22:51

I think it reads quite clearly as - that's what parents perceptions are... Yes it could be reworded, but I don't think it is actually acknowledging anything about the ethnic mix of service providers, just the fears of parents.

zzzzz Tue 26-Feb-13 14:42:25

It would read better without the "white" as it seems a bit hmm like the authors interpretation. I can't imagine that an ethnically Chinese (for example) provider would engender more confidence.

In my experience attitudes to disability vary massively between cultures and it is painfully obvious to me that few people give this much thought.

But there are so many ways to write that without being perceived themselves as racist. I worry that there wasn't an alternative way of writing it, if that was true. I'ts written as if services providers are white, and some ethnic minorities might have a problem with it, which I find racest.

Having looked at it a bit more I'm interested in the point Mareeya makes regarding the fact that white parents at least on MN boards have a number of issues with service providers who are white and not white. I am especially interested in the implication that those countries who don't have a word for autism are somehow 'behind'. In fact, many of the ethnic minorities in the UK are from cultures where they just get stuck in with helping the child and see no particular need for labels. IMO far advanced of our crazy labelling system in the UK which is often all you get.

zzzzz Tue 26-Feb-13 15:01:35

In my experience Europe is not the easiest place to have a disabled child. Our welfare system gives the impression of brilliant provision and security, but I'm not sure weather really our position is superior in any way.

Some of the eastern European countries are better for children with disabilities (though not sure about adults) because they just don't have the money to train up so many caring carrots. They can only afford people who DO something, and do it quick before the children become a burden as an adult.

zzzzz Tue 26-Feb-13 15:16:22

I was thinking more of long term care.

In families that live in large extended family households there are often members who are disabled, elderly or infants. In my experience they are cared for and have a role in the household.

Even the homes where I question weather this individual is being exploited doing domestic chores etc, I do wonder weather it isn't a better life than the boredom and loneliness I hear about in some institutions here?

Perhaps it is not better or worse just different.

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