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Speech Therapy Question - It Takes Two to Talk(27 Posts)
Hello & Happy New Year
I am the mother of a 3yr3mth old girl. She has severe speech and language delay. No expressive speech and about 10 words that she understands. I dont post much here and genearlly just read on Mum's Net.
Has anyone tried the It Takes Two to Talk pack? Its quite expensive and she has a private as well as NHS SALT so I dont want to spend money on something that the SALT might already be covering.
My lightbulb moment with More than Words was when they started talking about sensory issues and suddenly I understood that DS was hypo sensitive. All information about sensory issues I'd come across before that had banged on about DC who were hypersensitive and overwhelmed with the world. I couldn't recognise my DS who was cuddly, bouncy, noisy, liked strong tastes, kept smelling my hair etc.
Sorry, Salondon. Can you describe your DD's issues a bit more? Girls do present differently to boys with ASD, but do you feel that it's just spoken language that your DD struggles with or communication in general? How is she with understanding body language, tone of voice, gestures and actions? What is her eye contact like? Does she try to share things with you, eg if she sees something interesting does she look back at you to share her attention? Does she play with toys appropriately? My DS would play well with cause and effect toys, like ball helter skelters or pop up animals, but couldn't play with the toy fire station/engine and put out fires. He liked the siren sound but never played imaginatively with it until much later.
Just wondering whether you'd be better off buying More Than Words and skipping It Takes Two to Talk?
Can I suggest you have a look at this PECS course we thought it was quite hard, but after this course, it all became quite clear how simple it really is. The course is very good value for money. Best £150 we have ever spent by far.
Dev9aug Yes the SALT did recommend the 2 people approach. I struggle with that one. Need to do it more
as others have said, do get the books.
They are so clear, you can learn from them directly. It's not like buying a technical book that you then need a teacher to "translate".
On the odd occasion I wasn't sure about something I used to email the publishers and a speech therapist would get straight back to me.
It Takes Two is about training you the parent to use the best possible techniques in your interactions with the child. I started with It Takes Two because it's simpler (and to be honest I was too scared at the time to get anything that even mentioned ASD which looking back is daft but hey ho....). This meant that I already had good basic techniques when I started going a bit "deeper".
More than Words is, like the title suggests, about going deeper. It looks at how the child may very well not be "reading the signals" in various different ways when people talk to him/her. I think if you absorb the techniques there it will put you in a position to think very seriously about yet further possibilities that many on here have tried and recommend (PECS, ABA, dietary changes, etc). I had a lightbulb moment about three pages into More then Words and immediately knew that a particular idea had power and would help DS2 (for us it was all the visual learning stuff....)
What you are trying to do with the wrapper/box association is really PECS. I would start by promoting her hand over hand that the laminated wrapper gets her the cereal. Ideally you need two people for it. Person 1 behind her with the laminated card and person 2 in front of her with the cereal. This is how it goes.
Person 1 positions herself behind your dd ready with the laminated card
Person 2 shows her the cereal, as soon as she shows interest, person 1 gives the card in her hand and prompts her to give the card to person 2 who immediately offers cereal and also repeats the associated word "cereal".
Repeat steps the above two steps to reinforce that laminae card gets you cereal. You can also use this for other objects/activities. Offcourse your salt should be aware of the above and it will be best done with her present as the second person as you just don't want to get it wrong as we did.
I changed my nickname from jollys to salondon. Looks like it changes the name only on new messages
TheLightPassenger - No I havent asked. Will ask them. Chances are they wont.
zzzzz - Thanks. My daughter is very similar to your son. She is good at shapes but not good with pictures - on the book or on a laminate
EllenJaneisstillnotmyname - Thanks for your detailed response. I wish the libraries had these Hanen books
mariammama - She grabs the wrapper and the box when she wants the snack/ceareal. That is why we laminated it. and that hasnt worked yet. She points/reaches the cupboard where they are kept. Reaches to the wrapper if its on the table and she wants more snack. But the moment we laminated it, she lost all interest in the wrapper. Any tips?
Laminated wrapper might still be a bit abstract. She may need to grasp for herself that it gets her something.
What about the actual box / wrapper kept easy for her to access,
initially with a tiny bit left in so she has an incentive to grab it, but only accessible when you're there . When she does, fetch a decent portion.
Then same routine but without the little bit left in it.
Then same but front of the box / wrapper rather than the whole thing.
Then slightly smaller bit of box
Then the laminated box/wrapper, ie more like a real PEC
That is, get on a free course! Not £1000!
My understanding is that 'It takes Two to Talk' is the Hanen course / book recommended if ASD isn't suspected at all and 'More than Words' is Hanen tweaked for those with ASD. I had More than Words and it was my bible for a couple of years, absolutely fantastic and I'm forever recommending it on here for young, speech delayed 'spectrummy' DC. Winslow is the cheapest source that keeps it in stock. If you are at all suspicious that your DC may have autistic traits or have sensory issues, either over or under sensitive, get More than Words. If you feel she is definitely not on the spectrum, get 'It Takes Two.' There is a lot of duplication between the two books so not worth getting both.
My DS's special pre school had all it's staff trained in Hanen and the SALT attached to the school used to run the Hanen course for local parents. Can't recommend Hanen enough. If you can get on a course, even better, but they seem to be hard to find in this current financial climate, if not get the book.
I wouldn't commit that kind of money.
Our first speech therapist had no luck with getting DD (3.4 with severe speech delay) to use PECS at all, but when we did a proper PECS session with two trained therapists, she picked it up incredibly quickly. She didn't talk at all in the summer, and the pecs really helped her with transactional language. It's not helping massively with conversation, but she seems to be developing that by herself.
My ds is now 7 and language disordered +?, but at 3 it wasn't just he wasn't interested in pictures, he found them hard to see(while confusingly being very good at identifying shapes letters etc). I used music instead. Same tune/ sound for each activity.
Music therapy was good for early days.
Swimming was brilliant.
Do lots of activities and talk all the time.
Always praise any attempt to communicate.
I haven't tried the courses you mention but agree your salt should be able to advise. Personally I would focus on life skills, and doing as many activities as possible.
Hi, I was fortunate enough to do the It Takes Two course with NHS SALT. IMO just get the book, the DVD isn't all that helpful tbh, if you haven't got a SALT talking you through the examples etc on it. Have you asked NHS SALT point blank if they do the It Takes Two or similar courses in your area?
Will send it. Reckon you can do some of the "mand" stuff I mention in the article yourself
Thanks Sally Bear. I will keep trying PECS (we are using the laminated wrapper of her favourite cereal and snack at the moment). Not had much success
Yes please send me the details.. I am not too sure of ABA becuase I dont understand it enough to commit that kind of money
Hi again. The course is ~$1000. Has anyone tried their DVD + Book
I would try ABA - salts did nothing for my boy (severe speech delay and autism). I can pm you an account I wrote of both if you'd like?
They're all interested in objects and routines PECS just gives them a "voice" for the objects and routines.
My DS is deaf, non verbal and autistic. He is nearly 6. On Christmas Day he suddenly took an interest in PECS when he realised that a picture was going to get him a drink. We moved from Phase 1 to Phase 3 in 9 days. I'm beyond delighted.
The Hanen is run by SALTs. It teaches you to give your child a reason to communicate and then wait. Very effective therapy.
Thanks... I wasnt thinking about the course. I didnt find the course anywhere. I was only thinking about the DVD + book
Let me ask my SALT about the course.
Sally - My daughter isnt interested in pictures. She is more interested in routines and objects
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I would start off with Hanen More than Words personally. Or look at going on a PECS course. here
Then I would probably ask your private SALT if she can recommend this or anything else.
Thanks for your response Handywoman.
The Private SALT only sees her once in 6 wk
The NHS SALT sees her once a term
Rest is all covered by her Key worker and at home.
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