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The whole 'Aspies can't lie' thing...is it 'can't' lie, or 'lie really, really, badly'?

(34 Posts)
Lougle Mon 03-Dec-12 11:28:13

I'm suspecting DD1 has Aspergers, as you know.

She was warned on pain of death not to tell DD1 what she has for her birthday. Today, as we were giving DD1 her presents, DD2 was saying 'I do not know who that present might be from...' 'I do not know what is inside that present', etc.

It was so incredibly unconvincing grin

Is that something that would be typical of aspergers, or just a kiddie thing, or neither?

What do your children with aspergers do?

merlincat Mon 03-Dec-12 11:38:21

My aspie husband, a senior lawyer, can't lie and is utterly transparent (not so useful at work but great for spotting affairs). My 16 yr old aspie daughter began life like that but has learned how and can now lie for England. I think personality plays a great part, but that is the case for many aspects of the syndrome.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Mon 03-Dec-12 11:41:33

It depends on the person grin

My children can be very convincing.

I think it can be more that many people on the spectrum don't see the need for lying in many situations.

If you want an honest answer - ask my eldest! He doesn't do the whole 'no your bum doesn't look big in that' thing - but he can also swear blind that he's brushed his teeth when I can not smell even a hint of minty freshness grin

And who can forget the whole "a ghost did it" phase...

troutsprout Mon 03-Dec-12 11:44:46

Ds (15 Aspergers/ hfa dx) ... Very good at lying when he needs to . Doesnt do it ofton though and won't unless he has to... ( ie pretending f Christmas still existed to younger sibling) I always sense he doesnt like doing it.
So basically a honest chap.smile

alison222 Mon 03-Dec-12 11:45:55

DS can also be very convincing. He can also be easily caught out. If I say I don't believe him he will cave in and admit he is lying ( if he is) sometimes more readily than others.
HECT - just like on things like the tooth brushing and washing he lies that bit more convincingly.

coff33pot Mon 03-Dec-12 11:50:47

haha! DS will also tell you your bum is too big if it was grin

If he thinks someone looks wierd to him he will just say so "sorry but I think you look wierd to me, maybe not anyone else of course but definitely me" grin

He has tried to say "what? I didnt do anything" which we thought was a lie but nope he was actually saying HE himself figures he hasnt done anything wrong lol because after about 20 second pause he will still be thinking and say "All I did was fed the fish some of my toast as they were hungry etc" grin

Recently he has tried to lie badly as I just let him say what he wants to say then I say "I really need the true answer DS" and so he just shrugs and goes "ok" and matter of factly tells me in depth what he had done the reason why and why he didnt want to tell me and yes he knows its wrong" I dont even have to have that indepth parent son right and wrong chat lol he works it all out for himself.

coff33pot Mon 03-Dec-12 11:52:28

when we were small my sister always blamed the budgie! grin that budgie was grounded an awful lot along with her ONLY to keep him company of course grin

ArthurPewty Mon 03-Dec-12 11:59:10

my husband was so bad about lying, but yet so insistent, when a child that his father fingerprinted him, presented him with the evidence, and with his own fingerprints before his eyes, he still insisted he didnt do it.

my little one lies. well more likely she tells stories. she's only 4 but she takes blame for things she didnt do, she tells stories that cannot possibly be true and she seems to have terrible difficulty distinguishing between reality and fantasy.

DD1 would never lie. I never lie (if i can avoid it, even then its "white" lies only) - cos like being given too much change, my conscience wont let me just keep it, yanno?

moosemama Mon 03-Dec-12 12:02:38

Ds1 does a good attempt at lying to get his own backside out of trouble, but doesn't consider the need to cover his tracks or the fact that we often already know what's happened, then he quickly backpedals to 'But I didn't mean to do anything wrong / I couldn't help it / It's not my fault because xyz'. hmm

As others have said though, he is completely unable to tell 'little white lies' to save someone else's feelings - obviously because he's completely oblivious to how they will feel anyway.

The other day I got 'Mummy, you are always ill these days because you are getting old .... like Grandma aren't you.' shock angry

"Are you ill today, because you look awful." hmm

and of course the age old "Did you know you've got a huge red spot on your nose?" hmm

He also doesn't have the awareness that an NT child would have regarding not passing on things that perhaps others weren't meant to hear - hence him coming home and snitching on his teachers when they badmouthed me "Mummy, why did Mrs X say y about you?". An NT child might have fathomed that I would probably be upset and cross at being talked about like that and chosen to keep schtum, but it would never have occurred to him not to tell me exactly what they said.

That said, he has now learned to say thank you for gifts, even when he doesn't like them and to pretend he's pleased. Which is a major breakthrough. On the other hand, he will then turn around and say "can I have x as well though" if he feels he's been shortchanged. (Big fight in the Moose household over that one this weekend.)

Ineedalife Mon 03-Dec-12 12:10:47

Dd1 tells lies but like Leonies LO, she doesnt know the difference between reality and fantasy. When she was a teenager I actually couldnt tell when she was lying to me, she totally believed what she was saying was true.

It has got her in to all sorts of trouble over the yearssad

She doesnt have a diagnosis but I believe she has Aspergers and ADHD.

Her lying has damaged our relationship because I dont trust her.

Dd3 has occasionally tried to lie to me, mainly about personal hygiene but she is absolutely rubbish at itgrin
Thank goodness I dont think I could go through that again.

silverfrog Mon 03-Dec-12 13:28:58

dd2 can lie, and does so when it suits her.

she does not like being wrong, so will tell white lies/fibs (ie "oh yes, I thought it was that" when told she is wrong about somehting, and will swear black is white to this effect)

the not being wrong extends to not being wrong/told off so she will lie about having done/not done somethign if she thinks she will get told off for it.

she can be very good at ignoring things she doesn't want to hear, and then saying "I didn't hear you" or "I didn't realise you meant me <innocent face>" (very unconvincing), and then burst into tears (her default defence) when called on this.

Lougle Mon 03-Dec-12 14:26:01

Hmm, ok, so the upshot is, everyone's different grin.

I think DD2 was trying to be really good, but couldn't bring herself to say nothing and needed me to know that she was being good, hence the extremely bad acting.

madwomanintheattic Mon 03-Dec-12 14:31:50

I remember celebrating with my friend when her ds deliberately threw a spelling bee (he was 14 and the regional final was due to be held on the same day as the youth club paintball trip). He misspelled an easy word, and when she asked him afterwards, he totally lied through his teeth about it being too hard.

We celebrated for a week. For him, it was a huuuuuuuge step towards a deliberate manipulation to get what he wanted! (We only celebrated in secret, obv). He's very obviously on the spectrum, and this was first lie. Awww.

Greensleeves Mon 03-Dec-12 14:34:15

My Aspie never lies

He doesn't need to, because he ARGUES

and argues, and argues, and argues

<foetal>

moosemama Mon 03-Dec-12 14:43:48

Greensleeves, I hear you - I have an 'arguer' too. Endless arguing, never backing down - it's exhausting isn't it.

madwomanintheattic Mon 03-Dec-12 16:44:15

That's ds1 as well. grin if we're having a really good day, he can argue and cry at the same time, at the sheer injustice of not winning.

moosemama Mon 03-Dec-12 16:59:09

Crikey madwoman - you just described ds1 perfectly! grin

madwomanintheattic Mon 03-Dec-12 17:38:48

I'm sure they are related. grin
How are you?

moosemama Mon 03-Dec-12 17:45:46

Ok I guess. Plodding on.

To be honest I'm just trying not to think about it all at the moment and attempting to look forward to Christmas.

I had my EEG appointment through, but had to change it as it would have been impossible to get to between school runs. It's rebooked for the week before Christmas now. Still haven't heard when my MRI will be and nothing from the Neuro. Dh is supposed to be calling her secretary today, but I bet he's forgotten.

How's things with you? Ds?

madwomanintheattic Mon 03-Dec-12 17:52:20

Ds not good. Got evicted from his grade-skip maths class as he can't cope with the responsibility of getting himself there and organized on his own (well, duh.)

He wrote his Christmas list with 'nothing' on it underlined.

And is spending about 50% of his time at home pushing dd2 around. She isn't helping by retaliating, so mostly it is like living amidst ww3.

And dh is away for the week with work (he left at 4am Saturday, so it was routine change at the weekend, which never works well...)

That's a long time until your appointment... Are you keeping a diary?

moosemama Mon 03-Dec-12 18:00:14

Oh dear. Poor ds. Can't believe they still can't understand that they need to be supporting those skills, he isn't just going to suddenly get them by osmosis. angry

Cheap Christmas though.

My boys didn't ask for all that much this year either, I was both impressed and relieved when they wrote their lists. It's WW3 round here as well, either ds1 and dd or ds1 and ds2 - can you spot the common link there? wink

Poor you on your own with all that as well, bet it feels like it's been a week already.

Ummmm .... that'd be a no on the diary, although things have been very quiet on the neuro front since the seizures, as if it was all building up to a crescendo and now it's discharged - if that makes any sense.

Pleased to report dh has improved no-end. I think the neuro stuff really scared him this time and it was a bit of a wake-up call. I'm still not able to fully trust him, but things have definitely improved and he's really stepped up to the plate and started taking his responsibilities more seriously.

moosemama Mon 03-Dec-12 18:00:48

Apologies for the hijack.

Madwoman - we need to revive our old thread.

madwomanintheattic Mon 03-Dec-12 18:02:03

Will try and find it...

<apols for hijack!>

ouryve Mon 03-Dec-12 22:22:47

DS1 lies really blatantly. He doesn't believe that he is lying, though. He has a real difficulty separating real life and truth from the little world in his head where he is never wrong and never does anything bad.

DeafLeopard Mon 03-Dec-12 22:27:22

DS lies but very badly. He doesn't realise that his lie is so outrageous that we would never believe it for a second.

And like others have said, he argues.

He would make a great barrister, cos he keeps going and going and going until you give in.

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