Here some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on SN.

A bit closer to a diagnosis, but it aint a good one

(46 Posts)
hiddenhome Fri 23-Nov-12 12:12:23
mariammma Sat 24-Nov-12 23:00:56

Took my massive post off chat cos it was a bit too dogmatic for non-SN parents to read blush grin

This guy is talking bollocks. Narcissistic traits are not a diagnosis. Personality disorder cannot be diagnosed till 18 at the very earliest, and is a dodgy label before 25 (as said above). This is because so many people mature and improve well into early adulthood. Plus it's an incredibly stigmatising diagnosis and there is sod-all NHS help available for PD patients unless they try suicide so many times that the admissions start costing £50-£100,000/ year.

And one year of neglect is highly unlikely to cause such severe damage. Your ds was well-parented (by you, and latterly also your dh) for every year of his life bar the first. Adoptions of Romanian orphanage children have shown fairly conclusively that early deprivation does cause harm, but that most of this is reversible when the environment improves. Your evil ex messing with ds's head during contact is not sufficient to cause permanent severe neurological damage.

Read this by a mum whose 4 adopted dc have asd. She was fobbed off for years with talk of attachment disorder and early deprivation.

Now, I haven't said the camhs dr is wrong, but to be certain that a dc hasnt also got an asd when they are demonstrating clear evidence of lifelong poor social communication, lack of social imagination, and rubbish social interaction is a bit foolhardy brave. You can get a second NHS opinion from great ormond street, the Elizabeth Newson centre, guys/St Thomas, the Maudsley....

mariammma Sat 24-Nov-12 23:11:06

And btw, on your other thread you're being incredibly harsh on your naive, abused, 14-years-younger, post-natally depressed self. Hope you've snapped out of it now. You've had a guilty twinge, acknowledged it, felt sorry and made reparation, so it's time to let it go. Otherwise it'll just focus you on all the wrong things and preventably block you from actually loving and helping your ds.

Which really would be a good reason for guilt!

hiddenhome Sat 24-Nov-12 23:14:33

How can I get referred to a proper paediatrician though? We live in the NE and don't have access to specialist centres.

I'm scared this guy is leading us down the wrong path now sad

ArthurPewty Sun 25-Nov-12 08:32:19

IMHO this guy IS leading you down the wrong path, a wrong and dangerous path.

Everything you've written sounds more like Asperger's to me than NPD. Your description of your son is essentially my husband in a nutshell, especially the strong feelings on what other countries have done wrong - and he'll argue it til he is blue in the face. He cannot see anyone else's point of view, he is boorish and argumentative and a control freak. Oh, and he has an official NHS dx of High Functioning Autism, aged 35. (he'll be 40 in a few months).

ArthurPewty Sun 25-Nov-12 08:34:25

We own Velvet Bulldozer book, and I am happy to post it to you if you want to borrow it.

Agree with Maria that one year of being prevented from nurturing the child as you wanted to will NOT lead to attachment disorder and harm from deprivation. If the child's bum was clean, he was fed, and he was looked after, he won't have suffered.

ArthurPewty Sun 25-Nov-12 08:37:36

"I thought autism involved a decreased need for contact with others and poor communication abilities. "

This is a great autism myth.

Firstly, look at semantic pragmatic disorder, to see the kinds of language difficulties autistic people have - as semantic pragmatic disorder is the language component of autism. Every autistic person will have semantic pragmatic disorder if they are verbal.

Then look at sensory issues - that is why some autistic people need less contact - if you mean physical contact.

If you mean social contact, many with autism find that they crave people, but their needs cannot be met because they struggle socially.

I would be very, very careful proceeding with this psychologist - firstly, he cannot diagnose autism, so he'll be more likely to diagnose what he CAN diagnose, and secondly, NPD is really for adults.

You need a developmental paediatrician.

mariammma Sun 25-Nov-12 10:17:25

North East is fine. Call here and find out how to get seen by this very eminent person's team.

mariammma Sun 25-Nov-12 10:23:30

The Camhs guy is right about the narcissism being a big problem. He's probably right about there being some attachment disorder / hangup stuff. But being right about the absence of ASD in a smart, complicated dc really does takes an expert. And it matters cos narcissistic traits alone are likely to be managed differently than when they occur ASD or PDA, or whatever else.

hiddenhome Sun 25-Nov-12 13:52:33

<sigh> I'm no further forward am I? sad

God, this just keeps going on and on round in circles.

Why the hell can't I get to see a paed?

I will take a look at that link mariammma

hiddenhome Sun 25-Nov-12 13:56:12

Okay, have looked and she's based in Newcastle, that's very good. Will see about being referred, but doubt they will do it whilst I'm seeing this CAMHS bloke confused

I'm going to ring the school nurse tomorrow to ask why I'm seeing a psychologist instead of a paed. Perhaps the doctor attached to the school nursing service could refer me?

I really do feel like I'm caught up in some Kafkaesque nightmare here. I'm really feeling on shaky ground and that someone/thing is delibrately thwarting my attempts to get help and I don't know why sad

Thank you to everyone who's listening to me and suggesting ways of accessing help. I really do appreciate it.

Ineedalife Sun 25-Nov-12 14:10:55

God hidden he really does sound like my Dd1.

Dd1 is seriously opinionated and truely believes that her view is the only one that matters.

In fact due to poor Theory of mind, she doesnt even realise that other people have an opinionhmm

hiddenhome Sun 25-Nov-12 14:33:15

sad about your dd1

ArthurPewty Sun 25-Nov-12 14:47:18

my husband is like that, Ineeda... he is right the world is wrong, his is the only way, everything else is wrong, no open mind, rude and fortright, etc etc. He's autistic, he was diagnosed on the NHS...

ArthurPewty Sun 25-Nov-12 14:47:44

your GP can refer you, OP

hiddenhome Sun 25-Nov-12 15:25:41

The GP only ever refers us to CAMHS. This is what I mean, we keep going round in circles.

What age was your husband diagnosed Leonie? I have a bad feeling that this is going to drag on for years and then when he's a lot older it'll all come out and I'll be sitting there rocking in the corner jibbering "I did try, I did try" confused This is so draining for us and, in the meantime, ds isn't receiving any help. What will happen to him if he doesn't receive the proper help? We support and supervise him as best we can, but what is the prognosis in the medium term if he does have ASD?

And, who are all these people who do receive a proper assessment? Who the heck do you have to sleep with or bribe in order for this to be done? I really don't know what to say to these people for them to take us seriously.

Ineedalife Sun 25-Nov-12 15:34:43

I think my Dd1 has self diagnosed, whether she will ever get a formal Dx I dont know.

We went round in circles with Dd1 from age 4-9 and then I gave up, having been told it was my parenting that was causing the problemsad

With Dd3 we went round in circles from 5.5 until 9 when the DISCO was done and ASD was diagnosed.

Dd3 is not as mercenary[sp] as Dd3, she has alot more sensory and co ordination issues so I suppose ultimately she was easier to diagnose.

The thing which helped us most was the diary TBH, it finally made proffs sit up and listen, when they realised what we were trying to manage on a daily basis.

We were also lucky that there was an ASD friendly MH nurse at CAMHS who referred us on to a psychiatrist who had been trained to do the DISCO.

Sorry hidden not really much help. Would Nottingham be accessible for you?
Google the Lorna Wing Centre.

ArthurPewty Sun 25-Nov-12 17:15:43

Dh was 35 when he was dx'ed, he'll be 40 in a few months.

hiddenhome Sun 25-Nov-12 18:28:03

What made him go to the doctor about it Leonie? How easy was the process for his assessment?

imaginingitornot Sun 25-Nov-12 22:54:55

What about the speech therapy route? Doesn't tread on Camhs toes, and depending who you see, sometimes they're autism experts. Also ask school if he can go on educational psychologist waiting list (will take forever but worth trying)

ArthurPewty Mon 26-Nov-12 07:06:48

DD1 was being assessed, and he saw himself in the things they were seeing in her.

ArthurPewty Mon 26-Nov-12 07:07:23

Margo Sharp is a SALT, and diagnoses autism...

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