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Ok, another question about DD2

(53 Posts)
Lougle Sun 18-Nov-12 13:38:13

I noticed today, that DD2 doesn't seem to use language as I expect. I <as ever> don't know what is normal.

She has a tummy bug. She can't even keep water down, so food is out of the question. She doesn't want food, but was anxious about it.

She said 'Mum, why can't I have the thing that you and Daddy and DD1 and DD3 are having?' I replied 'do you mean food?' and she said 'yes'.

Why didn't she just say 'food' or 'something to eat'? Why did she list each of our names, and call the food 'the thing that you are having'?

Is that what a 5 year old normally does?

I know that DD3 (3.7) would just say 'why can't I have something to eat?' In fact, so would DD1.

There's something I can't put my finger on, but it just sounds so...formal but wrong.

claw4 Mon 19-Nov-12 16:23:33

Lougle you could ask HV or school nurse for a referral to SALT

ArthurPewty Mon 19-Nov-12 16:50:53

DD2 does this. A lot.

ArthurPewty Mon 19-Nov-12 16:52:55

"i want to be cold" - she wants her coat on
"Its too big for me" - her coat wrist cuffs were too TIGHT

DD1 used to say "on another day" instead of yesterday or last week etc

Lougle Mon 19-Nov-12 19:35:35

Leonie, DD2 does that a lot. 'On the day that wasn't Wednesday but after Thursday....'

She knows the days of the week (they all do, because our routine is Monday -carer 1, Tuesday carer 2, Weds DD1 at Kids, Thurs Homestart, Fri - no-one) it's when she uses them conversationally that it all gets muddled.

Claw, that's a thought. Perhaps they would do it.

She says 'this is too spicy for me', referring to lemon. She knows what 'sour' is and what 'bitter' is. But anything that doesn't taste nice she calls 'spicy'.

ArthurPewty Mon 19-Nov-12 19:39:15

DD1 used to say that about anything that was strong or whatever "spicy"...

Ineedalife Mon 19-Nov-12 19:50:44

Dd3 says spicy too, except about mints which she says are "too uurrrmm minty"grin

Dd3 struggled with his/hers, him/her, he/she too.

She has worked it out now but it took along time.

She struggles to tell me what is bothering her and will often just wave or flap at me until I work it out.

sannaville Mon 19-Nov-12 19:54:03

Dd doesn't say him/her he/she she says boy did it or girl did it

bdaonion Tue 20-Nov-12 00:22:26

My DD (SLI) has word retrieval issues and it used to be quite a challenge trying to work out what she was trying to communicate when she was younger. Petit Filous yogurts will always be forever referred to as 'pink with a bone' in our house. She was describing the packaging, but it took me a quite a while (and one frustrated child) to work that one out!

She attends a school with a SALT unit and they have taught her to make associations with words such as what does it do, what does it feel like etc. At 6 she is able to recognise that she is struggling to find the word and will say something like "what's that thing that is...." which helps.

On the plus side, she is going to kick butt at Taboo when she is older...

bdaonion Tue 20-Nov-12 00:40:57

Re: the fork example, DD will use it by name quite correctly most of the time, but then randomly refer to it 'as a stick with a 'w' on the end that you use to eat.'. She knows the words but it is like the connection drops mid-sentence sometimes.

justaboutchilledout Tue 20-Nov-12 00:56:46

The starting sentences in the middle can be due to poor theory of mind, children literally think you are thinking the same as them, they are not aware that peoples thoughts are different.

This, yes, exactly, we have had all sorts of trouble with that with DS1. Word-finding problems I don't know much about.

Lougle Tue 20-Nov-12 09:51:44

"You're trying to get this house as clean as any house at all."

Me to ds: 'what was the dance called that you did in PE at school?'

DS 'I don't know. I really can't remember. I don't know what the animal is'.

(turns out they did the birdie dance).

Lougle Tue 20-Nov-12 10:06:04

Ahh Star smile it just shows that these details are like junctions in rail tracks for our children. If the tracks don't line up, the train stops!

EscapeInTheCity Tue 20-Nov-12 10:11:53

Oh dear, something else where I can completely relate too.

ds2 is like this. Will start a sentence without giving context and is expecting me to know what he is talking about....
Yesterday and tomorrow still aren't clear. It's always 'the day before today' or 'the day after'.

He is also totally unable to tell me what has happened during the day or what he enjoyed most. Do you think this is also related to a lack of theory of mind?

Handywoman Tue 20-Nov-12 10:16:16

^A couple from today:

"Patch (that's the dog, btw) can have tuna because it is strong for him!"

I couldn't work out whether that was meant to be that tuna makes Patch strong, or if she was using 'strong' where 'good' would normally be used.

"What is making all that pieces of noises?"

I was playing a wordament on the computer, and the noise was the swipe of the letters.^

Oh my goodness, Lougle your dd's language is exactly like my dd's. Aged 4 she would have said -e-x-a-c-t-l-y- these things. And she had a severe delay in receptive and expressive language. She is now aged 7 and speaks in an odd way. However, her receptive/expressive language skills and ability to use grammar etc. are now normal/advanced following intensive private SaLT. Except that her rigidity of thinking makes her use language in a strange way. So that it is difficult to see what is at the core of it. And I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) the older they get, the clearer it becomes as to what is behind it.

For example, dd who will be 8 in March, said, last night. "Guess what I had for pudding at lunchtime, Mum" (which incidentally is rather amazing since she is rarely able to report experiences at school and share them with me). She went on to describe a chocolate sponge with sprinkles on the top. My reply was: "that sounds nice". To which she corrects me: "No, mummy you need to say it looks nice, because a chocolate pudding doesn't make any sounds, it doesn't bark like a dog or anything....."

What I am trying to say is it can either be the nuts-and-bolts of language, or a core deficit in social imagination/cognitive empathy. Or a core deficit in social imagination which is making it hard for her to pick up language in the normal way. Huge, huge, huge overlap. Write all of these down word for word and take them to your SaLT.

HW xx

Handywoman Tue 20-Nov-12 10:24:12

I have just read further on (doh, keep forgetting to go to the end of the thread!!)

She says 'this is too spicy for me', referring to lemon. She knows what 'sour' is and what 'bitter' is. But anything that doesn't taste nice she calls 'spicy'.

Exactly this. In fact age 7 she still uses the word 'spicy'.

Lougle Tue 20-Nov-12 12:42:35

Handywoman, that's really interesting too. Perhaps it could be a language issue that is making her anxious and seemingly with ASD features?

Now that she is physically better, she wants to return to school (can't until tomorrow - 48 hour rule), but when I say 'oh so you're not worried about <all the things she has mentioned in the last two weeks>' she says 'yes, I am worried about that.' It seems that her illness allowed her worries to be expressed.

Now she's well again, she's not mentioning it unless I ask her to talk about it. If I do ask, she can't tell me why it worries her. She just says 'it's different and I'm a ' all the same' girl.'

Ineedalife Tue 20-Nov-12 14:43:52

I love her description lougle

She is really clever to be able to put it into words, it could be the unpredictability of the school day which is stressing her.

Teachers are notorious for changing things round or making sudden desisions which could be based on the behaviour of the children but that many of the children know nothing about.

Eg. Doing singing at story time, because its xmas. Missing PE because half the class didnt get changed quick enough.

Many [not all] teachers would not even think how distressing thses things can be for children who like things to be "All the same"

bialystockandbloom Tue 20-Nov-12 15:37:48

Ds does this too (ASD), will describe things absolutely literally if he can't find the word or remember a name Eg "the child who was about [so] high and was eight years old"

I think it can be a generalising problem too - if I ask him what he had for lunch and he doesn't know the name of something, instead of generalising meat/vegetables/ he'll describe it literally. We still haven't worked out what the "peach coloured thing" was that wasn't sweet, wasn't savoury, wasn't spicy, and definitely wasn't a peach grin

Also says "last time" when he means any other time other than right now (yesterday, last week, once, the other day etc).

Handywoman Tue 20-Nov-12 21:50:46

I love her description, Lougle. It's beautiful. I wish I had written down more of dd's phrases, they can reveal so succinctly how they interpret their world. Either that or you haven't the foggiest what they are talking about!

I wish I had written down more of my daughter's unusual phrases over the years.

hw x

Lougle Wed 21-Nov-12 07:09:38

"Mum, my breath it's out from going to school"
Is today's offering.

I reckon our kids would have been poets in another lifetime.

Either that or Yoda. Both fine with me.

Lougle Wed 21-Nov-12 10:23:13

Yes smile

Ineedalife Wed 21-Nov-12 11:46:49

LOL@yoda star

Lougle Fri 23-Nov-12 07:31:58

"DD2, what did you do at play time?"

" I picked up some sticks that had two or three layers and I gived them to some friends I can see who I can invite to my party if you say."

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