social communication language disorder

[Gorta]

My dd Speech and language therapist told me yesterday this is what my dd is diagnosed with. Previously it was described as Semantic Pragmatic language disorder. I read an excellent article by Margo Sharp called Understanding language (sorry l don't know how to link it) but this article described my dd to a tee. I definately think she dips her toe in the Asd specrum. Like the experiences of some of the mums here. She is the perfect child at school and then explodes when she comes home. She has also been diagnosed with Dyspraxia and SPD. I have been told by an OT she has autistic traits and the private Slt thinks she is definately on the spectrum. She is receiving ongoing slt and ot. She is very passive and struggles socially. I would be really interested to hear your experiences of this condition. She is nearly 9. Her brother has an SLI and was diagnosed with dyspraxia this week. He is 5. The OT used an assessment tool called the sensory integration praxis test. My dd was assessed 4 years ago using the movement ABC. Has anyone any experience of this test? he definately has dyspraxia. Im not questioning the results.
Thanks

[EllenJaneisstillnotmyname]

Hi Gorta, nice to see you again. As far as I know, SALTs, who can't DX ASD, would describe a DC with ASD as having a social communication language disorder. But I guess other DC could also have a social communication language disorder without having ASD, maybe?

An OT can DX dyspraxia, but not ASD and the 2 are often co-morbid and have many crossovers. Has your DD been assessed by a developmental paed?

[Gorta]

Hi EJ,
Thanks for your reply. My dd was assessed this year by a educational psychology who has also trained as a clinical psychologist. She did not believe my dd is on the Asd spectrum. My ds was seen by a development paed who was useless.n The problem here in Ireland is trying to get the most from the system. If l refer her to be assessed for Asd. She will be transferred from her existing services and then only get about half of the therapy she is currently receiving. It's all crazy stuff. I don't have any problem with her being diagnosed with Asd it's just giving her all the help now she needs rather than years on waiting lists.
Thanks for your reply.

[Ineedalife]

Thats interesting leonie, I worked with a boy years ago who had semantic pragmatic disorder, he was definitely autistic.

I wonder if her ever got the correct dx

[Gorta]

Hi Girls,

Thanks for the replies. I have read up alot on Autism and l found Aspergirls really interesting. My dd is passive and very compliant. My ds is attending a language unit in the school she attends. I feel he definately has an Specific language impairment, sensory processing disorder and dyspraxia but no autistic traits.
My daughter has been receiving therapy since she was eighteen months old and it has really helped her. The information that the SLT was giving me is that she has a social communication disorder without being on the asd spectrum. I find this hard to believe as her behaviors are really subtle but at home she really shows autistic traits. The psychologist wrote about the social anxiety she experiences in school and l think it all links in together. I am in a catch 22 as she is getting fantastic public services and her needs are being met. I would have no hesitation when she gets older to get a diagnosis. The way it works here is that with an asd diagnosis you are tranferred to different services and are on a waiting list for 18 months. She is getting loads now where she is and is getting one to one support in school. I am just really interested in hearing your experiences.

[Ineedalife]

Hi gorta, the main reason I pushed for Dd3 to be diagnosed was because I felt she was going to struggle more when she moves to secondary school.

If you were to join the waiting list you could always cancel the appointment when it came through if you felt it was no longer necessary.

There are a few of us, me and leonie included who are always banging on about how different girls with ASD are to boys with ASD.

They are often passive although I have one of each [one hyper and one passive], at secondary girls who social communication difficulties can have a really hard time fitting in.

Good luck whatever you decide

[Gorta]

Hi Girls,
I really appreciate ye taking the time to reply. I will definately take her privately and get her assessed for Asd. I do think she will run into trouble in the future. We are able to support her now but it won't always be the case. She has a hard time with her peers but also has made a couple of friends which is great. She is not an obvious case but I think I would have more piece o mind knowing I have done all I can.
Thanks

[Gorta]

Hi,
Ok just one last question. Sorry to bore the socks off ye! I had a teacher parents meeting today about my ds who is 5 and in a language unit. The public slt there treats both my children and she feels his SLI will develop into a social communication disorder. She feels his development is mirroring my older daughter. He has problems in listening, attending to a conversation, taking turns in conversation topic maintenance etc. he is also diagnosed with dyspraxia and SPD. Ant thought going forward with him. I do fin him easier as he I not as rigid as my dd. he doesn't show autistic traits.

[Ineedalife]

I am sorry gorta but I think that SPD and dyspraxia and social communications issues are all autistic traits

Sorry if I have completely misunderstood.

[Gorta]

Yes I do agree with you. But why is the SLT categorising both of my children under the DSM-5 social communication disorder. She has experience of children on the spectrum. Is she just completely wrong in the label she is giving my children. I just can't get my head around the fact.
Thank you for your reply. It is just goodtoget this out of my system. I am going to refer both of them tobe checked for Asd. My ds has been seen by a dozen different professionals in early intervention who never once suggested Asd.
Thanks

[Ineedalife]

I think because the SLT cannot diagnose ASD, she is not wrong about the SCD but it probably coexists alongside the other things, the over arching condition could be ASD.

I just think when you put all of their issues together there is a bigger picture.

I think it would be good to get them both assessed because then you will know one way or the other.

I hope you dont have to wait too long.

Good luck

[plus3]

We are on this journey as well - DS has Sensory processing disorder, seems to display his behaviour mostly at school (although have my own concerns) They are currently suggesting a social communication disorder, for which we are waiting for a SALT assessment. Having read about Aspergers I think he is probably mlldly there, however DSM-5 seems to be given to children without the ridged/repetitive behaviour patterns.

I really don't want him to have a label that isn't right for him but am petrified of no label at all. He is in yr4 of primary. We have been going since reception.....

[moondog]

I'd worry less about what you call it and more about what is going to be done about it by the people paid to help.

[Ineedalife]

I agree leonie for Dd3 the doors were firmly shut, bolted and padlocked without a Dx.

I wish it was the case in my area moondog but it quite simply isnt, even since the dx we still have to give the doors a hard kick to get them open

I really feel for parents and children whose children dont easily meet the criteria because it is so common for them to get stuck in the system like we did. Giong from proff to proff, each of them saying "Borderline for this, borderline for that".

Plus having the diagnosis has only been positive for us so far. Dd3 is getting some support at school and we as a family are able to deal with her issues more confidently.

good luck

[moondog]

Fair point, particulalry in the case of ASD but even without a diagnosis the emphasis should be on tackling presenting difficulties, irrespective of what thery are called.

The way that terms like SLI and SCD and semantic/pragmatic disorder are bandied about with no common agreement on what they are is very confusing and unhelpful.

[plus3]

Agree that the problem is with attaining a label - at the very first appointment with the developmental paed it was suggested that labels weren't always helpful. It was my impression that DS isn't considered bad enough to warrant help in a statement sense. I feel we are being bounced around various professionals & yet no closer to our label. Meanwhile he is unsupported in school, beginning to fall behind & I am resorting to reading what I can, & trying to support him from possibly the wrong sources.

[WilsonFrickett]

Sorry, I've only skimmed this but my DS has a social communication disorder dx which was arrived at after ADOS. Basically, he has the classic autism spiky profile, but he is just under the threshold for a HFA dx. So if you need to 'score' 20 to get an ASD dx, he is scoring 19 IYSWIM. I am comfortable with this as a dx as he's getting the right support (ATM). So just wanted to say its not necessarily the wrong dx. Although do understand that girls often 'beat' the tests too.

[Gorta]

Thank you for all the replies. My dd support has been greatly reduced this year due to budget cutbacks. I don't feel the principal understands her needs even though I have brought an Ot into the school and met with her teachers to explain her needs. There is a new team of, teachers who have only worked with her this year and are only now realising her needs. I have asked the educational psychologist to monitor her but the school have been useless from the social aspect. She has no friends and she has no social skills class. The Asd label is only being sought to reduce her social anxiety and make the school support her needs. The public professionals slt etc are looking to reduce her therapy as she is an older child and not a priority. We have worked so hard to support her and he has made such tremendous progress which I want it to continue.

[WilsonFrickett]

that's rubbish Gorta. Keep pushing then.

[Gorta]

Thanks.
I am going to check out bringing her to Joanne Douglas she has a clinic in Northern Ireland. She worked with Lorna Wing. I want her to be seen by someone specialised. Has anyone any experience of this professional?