can a 'good' reader be dyslexic ?(32 Posts)
I have a DD of 8 and my gut feeling is that she has some kind of problem connected with literacy.Although she knows and understands phonics patterns her spelling is apalling.She can say what sounds she needs but write them down in the wrong order and can'tt see that it is wrong unless you make her touch each one and sound it out.School think she is a good reader because she was at level 4 in Y3 SATS.But she isn't. She relies on recognising the shape of a huge number of words but when confronted with an unknown word has no idea.
I have just realised she can't even easily read out the letters because she says she can't see them properly because they move about too much.She has had a recent eye test
She scored 3a in yr 3 in literacy although her spelling age was very very low.
She has recently done Verbal and non-verbal reasoning tests at school and came out in the extremely high bracket only dropping one mark on each paper putting her top of her year.So she isn't daft
I don't know anything about dyslexia but I wonder whether there is a possibility DD could be affected.
Are there any simple tests we could do at home to give us an idea if it is worth putting her in for an assessment.
Finally would the school help her even if she was diagnosed ?
Any replies would be most gratefully received
Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.
You are better to start a new thread, as few will read the whole thread and just answer the op and not see yours.
I came on to post about the same thing... My son is in year one and confidently reads at least a year above his age but has no phonic ability at all. He guesses words from context, recognises whole words or guesses from the first letter, but can't decode. His spelling is really bad unless he learns the word and then he will still write the word as an anagram or rough approximation. He regularly reverses letters (b/d j/t).
He has had glue ear in the past. I have started to wonder if he has auditory dyslexia. Am I completely off track and he has just somehow "not got" the whole phonics thing? How could I help him?
Sorry to hijack the thread but I didn't want to start a new one on the same subject.
In respect of words moving around on the page, has anyone mentioned this yet?
My dd1 who is 9 has recently been assessed as having dsylexic traits. I'm still not sure what this really means and is having support once a week. She is a good reader but we have been told that although she can read well, she's a poor reader for her cognitive abilities!!! And needs help with inferential comprehension as well as having poor spelling. Teachers have always commented on her quirky thinking and also her tendency to be distracted if its not a subject she loves! Am trying to get a meeting as I'm not clued up on all these SEN terms or what if anything I should be doing to help. Any advice would be welcome.
can anyone recommend whether I choose " a specially designed program" - undefined from Dyslexia action to help with my son's reading comprehension, or to choose the Toe by Toe system deliver it myself or allow the school to do it x 10mins 5 times per week. He can read!
my DS is 17. he is an avid reader. he got great GCSE results - including a B in english.
6 weeks into college he did the LADS test. he then saw an ed psyche - he has moderate to severe dyslexia.
so yes! in answer to your question!
Yes, you do need the 3 'Get spelling!' pupil work books, but as you say, they only seem to come in packs of 5
I suggest you contact Oxford Education and ask for a mixed pack/ evaluation pack of the workbooks. www.oup.com/oxed/info/parents/
I have ordered the Ruth Miskin spelling book - the Teachers Handbook. I can't work out if the pupil books are blank exercise books or contain stuff and they only seem to come in packs of 5.
I have also found Debbie Hepplewhite's handwriting guide with diagonal joins to all letters and thought that might help spelling acquire some fluency.
madgebettany, well done you for sorting out your son's decoding problems so excellently Spelling will always lag behind reading a bit because it uses expressive rather than receptive memory.
The problem with Toe by Toe (apart from the fact that it is so 'dry') is that it doesn't include a writing (spelling) element and really decoding for reading and segmenting for spelling are 2 sides of the same coin and should always be taught together.
I suggest you look at a synthetic phonics spelling programme such as Ruth Miskin's Read Write Inc.
Read Write Inc. Spelling. For KS3 - designed for children who have used Read Write Inc. Phonics or any child reading at National Curriculum Level 2a/ 5-14, Level 1 and above.
Also, have a look at Phase 6 of the DCSF programme 'Letters&Sounds'. It concentrates on teaching spelling and has some useful spelling guidelines nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/83123?uc=force_uj
Maverick - i'm just hijacking the thread to ask your advice briefly. My son (8.11) has a reading age of 10.08 and a nonsense word reading score of about a 12yr old.
This time last year he read words only by sight and could not decode. His reading age was 7.08. I have taught him myself for the last year using Toe by Toe (until it got too painful) and then the Promethean Trust Dancing Bears scheme. This has transformed his reading and decoding abilities.
However his spelling age is still 2 months below his chronological age so a gap of about 2 yrs between reading and spelling. I have worked through Book 1 of Apples and Pears and he knows his alphabetic code. What else should I do?
The Ed psych thinks he's not dyslexic because of his nonsense and phoneme deletion skills.
Hi nooka, glad to hear that my advice helped you with your son's problems.
For anyone with a 'good reader/ poor speller', I strongly suggest you check their knowledge of the advanced alphabet code and how they deal with nonsense words -before you presume that the problem is 'dyslexia'.
Alphabet Code Knowledge Test. Does your child know the complete Alphabet Code? Do YOU?
Ruth Miskin's nonsense word test. This is a decoding ability test.
Problems with these two tests shows that your child's difficulty is with decoding -not that they have some mysterious 'brain glitch'. The reason why they have a problem with decoding is very simple -they haven't been taught.
ds was assessed as dyslexic a few years back, and at the time was really struggling with reading. On the advice of maverick (nice to see you here maverick!) I found a specialist tutor for him, and he had some really focused help with his phonic skills. We only managed to do it over one summer but it made an enormous difference, and he is now a confident reader, and assessed as advanced for his age. His spelling is still a problem, but last year his teacher used a different sort of scheme and he did so much better. Interestingly quite similar to the link given, as it was all based around groups of sounds/patterns (it was a scheme personal to that teacher).
He still has terrible writing but this we think is based on poor fine motor skills. It was suggested he should have some OT support, but it hasn't happened yet, and the school are now pushing for IT support instead. He also has some behavioural issues. Some typical to dyslexia (ie poor organisation) but others I am not so sure about - basically he struggles to understand that his actions have consequences, which is a little alarming now he's ten.
I'd be curious as to whether if we had him assessed today how similar the results would be to the assessment four/five years ago.
I found this online assessment thing when I was looking for info on dyslexia for a friend of mine. The site has a lot of information about dyslexia, incl things like text moving around, remembering words etc as you describe.
I am mildly dyslexic, but was missed till i was 17 years. I would say Im a pretty good reader and will read books all day given the chance as i love to read. My issues are spelling, grammer and chatoic behaviour. Nothing terrible but struggle to organise myself.
Ahhhhh, I didn't answer how to approach the school.
I always work with the school. My attitude is that, yes, the child is at school to be educated but only for a certain number of hours a day. Only so much help can be provided given the resources constraints they have. It may not be right but it's reality.
So, work with the teacher and SENCO. Try and get the diagnosis assessment because it identifies that childs own weaknesses and makes intervention more personalised. Hopefully a lot of intervention can be provided by the school but if they cannot, consider if you are able to provide it.
Also make sure, at home, you are encouraging the things they are good at as well as ICT and touch typing (I wish we had started earlier so it was in place for secondary). My sons self esteem went through the roof when he was finally 'best in the school' at something (his music)
My son (age 11) is severely dyslexic and mildly dyspraxic.
My first encounter with this was age 7 when he still couldn't spell reception words.I decided to teach him them over the summer. It seemed to work well, he knew them and I knew he knew them ....then 24 hours later having not used them for a day he was back to square one. His spelling has improved painfully slowly but even age 11 he cannot spell many simple words - was, there, they and many others. Even the he will occassionally put teh (even though he does recognise the error on re-reading) - it must be so frustating.
We fought for years for a proper assessment but never got anywhere until we decided to pay for a formal private ed psyc. diagnosis. He is a perfectly capable young man until it comes to the written word.
He managed to secure a year 6 SATS (with scribe and reader where allowed) of level 4b (reading/comprehension) 4b (maths) and 5b (science) but 3c writing (and that was brilliant - he wasn't expected to score but he was determined to do the paper and not be singled out!)
He has good self esteem as we have concentrated on encouraging things he excels at (Science, Creative things and Music) and the school are working with us and him to ensure he makes the progress he is worthy of. It's a new school though, so I don't know how it will pan out. Due to his good self esteem he is able to confidently explain his issues to teachers when necessary and converse on where he needs help. He treats it as something he has to live with and work on, and it's payback for the things he is very good at! I am very proud of him.
We are presently working at home on touch typing so he can, as soon as possible, use IT for his written work which will be supplemented with a spell checker. Later we may look into dictation machines but we need to nail touch typing first. The Ed psyc does think his problems are so severe he will not be able to make the progress required to write independantly for GCSE. Thank goodness for technology!
My son doesn't meet the BPS definition of dyslexic but he's had an Ed Psych assessment which recommends that he should be taught as a dyslexic child. He has a reading age at least a couple of years ahead of his chronological age and spelling about the same, but he scored very differently in different sections of an IQ test (very high verbal and average processing/short-term memory). His school haven't been at all helpful in supporting him for this, they've mostly focused on associated behavioural problems and the Ed Psych was seen privately.
I do wish the definition of dyslexia would be broadened to allow for these kinds of situations - he probably would have much more difficulty with reading if his general intelligence wasn't so high and compensating for it. But he benefits from things like mind maps and learning organisational skills in the same way a dyslexic child does.
My 7y DD (Y3) is a very good reader but, after assessment at school last year, is known to have some dyslexic tendancies. She is now seeing a support teacher at school one day a week, along with anothe girl in her class, for some support with handwriting (esp reversed b/d etc) and some spelling patetrns. Done 4 weeks s far and it is going well.
Ok thanks for that very useful input.
Now , next problem speaking to the school
I have raided the issue twice already- the first time her teacher offered her one to one spelling tuition for half an hour after school each week.This continued for a term after which the teacher said she didn't think she needed it any more but I couldn't really see much ,if any , improvement.
the second time was at the beginning of this term and the teacher has given her a workbook which is really designed for handwriting practice ,but she thought it might help her with letter patterns.the first page concentrates on 'ave' and the child has to write out words like 'brave' and 'traveller which contain the 'ave pattern but I think are more confusing for her then helpful !
Any advice about how to approach the school would be very gratefully welcomed
many Many thanks
Oh and I have a chemistry degree and speak German, so don't worry about that!
Yes, I am. Taught myself to read at 3, but cannot spell and my handwriting is dreadful. Any basic spelling help will help, even if you don't get SEN help. At primary school I was moved round tables for various subjects, thanks to a very good teacher, so wasn't stuck at the "bad" table for all subjects, and it really helped.
link to Stareway to Spelling
DS can often spell quite well if he is saying it, but can't write it properly. He used to have a problem copying off the board as he would forget what he had just read by the time he looked down to write it on paper.
DS 14 is similar. Very bright and reads well, but his spelling is awful. He can spell the same word wrongly 3 different ways on the same page, even if it's spelt correctly at the top of the page.
He has never been formerly diagnosed but primary said he had a SLD (specific learning difficulty of which dyslexia is one) but his current SENCO says he is almost certainly dislexic. He can read well because he was taught synthetic phonics properly.
DH is the same but was taught "look and say" which was a disaster for him and he couldn't read until he was 10.
DS has struggled with foreign languages, but I think the main problem for him was that he was expected to learn 2 in Yr7 and being top class of top set an awful lot was expected of him. He is on the g&t list for science..
In primary they gave him a lot of one to one help with spelling using a scheme called "stareway to spelling" which did help to a certain extent.
I sat through ds2's aprent evening yesterday. He's a good reader, reading Tom's Midnight Garden atm (he's 8 so about right I think) and yet his handwriting is so applaling they cannot read it, and he has all the organisational difficulties associated with dyslexia as well (worth looking at- its more than just a literacy thing)
In actuality, the SENCO and I are arranging for ds2 to be seen for dyspraxia as he ticks all the bxes n the dyspraxia org website, but nonetheless he is a good reader.
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