apparently Channel 4 are covering ASD in mainstream at 7pm tonight.. plsemailviews

[mccreadymum]

I have been told that Channel 4 will be running an item this evening on SEN kids being included in mainstream schools. The charity SOS SEN asked anyone with views to email them after watching (on [email protected]), as the more views they get the better a petition we can get going for improvements in our kids' education. Not sure if the Channel 4 program will be positive or negative but do watch if you're interested (Monday 26th November, 7pm, Channel 4 news)

[SmileSam]

Am all for SEN children being educated in mainstream schools, provided the mainstream teachers get some support. When special schools were shut, mainstream teachers were promised specialist advice. This has gradually become thinner and thinner on the ground. We have no Educational Psychologist in our area, the Specialist Teaching Service no longer helps out and Speech and Language therapists come in for a quick consultation twice a year. I've had ADHD, deaf, dyslexic and Autistic children all in the same class with no help (apart from inexperienced Teaching Assistants) in a mainstream school, whilst trying to plan/execute/assess lessons for 25 other children with ranging abilities. This government is crap!

[Whizzz]

missed it - as a TA, I would liked to have seen what they had to say.

[mccreadymum]

It was basically about the issue of delegated funding, where schools are given pots of money for SEN kids, but that money is not ring-fenced and can end up being spent on whatever the head wishes - even painting the netball court, according to the report! I have sympathy for you smilesam: clearly, if there's money for SEN kids it needs to be spent right, to help you teachers in the frontline. The charity SOS SEN are asking any mums with experiences like this to send in emails (in confidence if necessary) - they are then going to lobby the govt, which at present is planning to increase the policy of delegated funding.l kids. Just email [email protected] if you have something to say on this issue. Otherwise I fear that SEN policy is being made on the hoof by the govt, with the buck passed from LEA to schools who already have enough on their plates and too little funding for every new crazy initiative sent to them.

[Whizzz]

and as a TA I have experience of money coming in....and not being spent on training the 'inexperienced TAs' even though they jump up & down begging for it ....Grrrrrr

[mccreadymum]

It is ludicrous to put TAs in charge of some of our more needy and challenging kids without proper and intensive training! The TA job is being overlooked and underpaid to get more staff into schools on the cheap! I'm lucky that my DS has a well-trained and highly experienced TA with many years work with ASD kids under her belt. I bet you cope really well Whizzz, but under extremely difficult cirumstances as autism, ADHD etc are highly complex conditions. I have a son and a step-daughter with ASD and I am still learning something new every single day. I can talk to you about ASD if you want? I am also lucky that I got a statement for my DS, though that of course is a double-edged sword as it means he is "bad" enough to get a statement, whereas borderline kids are being sent in the direction of School Action plus, or Early Years action or whatever the local LES is calling it. It's a con!

[SmileSam]

Didn't mean to offend you Whizzz. Our TAs are very well meaning and hard working, but SEN is just not a priority in my school. The Head is more interested in those kids who make us look good in the league tables. The foyer's been painted twice in three years, but no one will help me get the children in my class assessed when I know they have problems we are missing. Unfortunately some of the SEN kids parents have SEN or 'school phobia' themselves, so they don't push on behalf of their kids to get them the help they need. Well done on your statement Mcreadymum - they're like goldust now and if your school doesn't have a sympathetic Head and SENCO you can forget it! As least your DS has a 'contract' now, outlining the support she needs and this should follow her through her education, no matter how future Heads want to use their SEN funding.

[aquariusmum]

Smilesam and Whizzz, I have been reading this thread and you sound like you know what you are talking about so I wonder if you could offer me some advice. I have a meeting with the school tomorrow about my ASD DS and I'm a bit worried. Even though it's only 6 weeks since he started at this mainstream nursery attached to a school, and therefore very early days, I just have a feeling they are giving up on him. The first thing the teacher ever said to me at the parent's meeting I had about him 2 weeks ago was "I don't really know what he's getting out of this experience". She also made a huge deal about the fact that he hit his TA once in frustration, though he has never hit or touched any kids and I know for sure other kids in this class are bashing each other all day. I do take any violence seriously though and am going to tell her how hard I've been working at home to make sure DS doesn't ever ever hit again (more than some mums are doing, I know for a fact, even in my NF child's class!). Just looking for advice really. I KNOW he is making great progress in mainstream, even the fact that he can now sit quietly at circle time, and count, and copy the other kids when they line up - these are all massive triumphs for an autistic child. I have written them all down to take to the meeting. From your side of the fence, any advice on how to handle the next meeting, which is also with SENCO and TA. Do I show my tough side, or keep it nicey nicey. If I'm too nice, will they walk all over me. Which parents get the best treatment, the nice ones or the scary ones??Thanks for any help you can give me as I just get the impression this school may not be giving it their all to make it work with my DS.

[Whizzz]

For my (limited)experience, the parents who show a genuine interest and are supportive are the easiest to talk to from 'the other side' of the fence. I'd make a point of saying though how & what you do at home with your DS & what you find works with him. It may be that they have limited experience themselves & so could learn a lot off you !
What he's getting out of the 'experience' (I'm shocked a teacher would say that!), is experience of being with others and coping within a classroom. I think you just have ensure you get your points across & make sure they listen to what works for you & your DS.

SmileSam - no offence taken - it's a sore point at the mo. I am desparate to do some sort of specialised SEN qualification but school seems unwilling to spend any money on us lowly TAs & like you, we have a lovely main office...

[aquariusmum]

Thanks Whizzz - that is good advice and I will make sure to do what you say. I agree: what he's getting is the ability to play alongside other kids and therefore co-exist in harmony with his fellow human beings (pretty crucial as a life skill just on its own!). Thanks again - they need to realise that, you are right. I'm always here if you want to ask me about autism, but that's the only SEN I really know about in any detail.

[SmileSam]

Aquariusmum, in my experience (fourteen years as a class teacher and seven years as a SENCO before I went part-time to have kids), it's def the tough parents who get what they want. Start 'nicey nicey', but don't whatever you do, be fobbed off. Schools are so busy, many SENCOs and Heads are happy if parents of special needs kids take their kids out, so they don't have the headache of making sure they get adequate provision. There should be Outside Agencies to help support the school with your child (if he's been diagnosed Autistic, surely this is happening already?) you just have to push to access it - it often means lots of paperwork for school and money, hence the reluctance. You can always overide the school and contact the LEA. Do the SENCO and Head realise how insensitive his class teacher is?

[aquariusmum]

Smilesam, my DS does have a TA and I do have a statement, so I think the school have to give it a good try before they throw the towel in. No, the SENCO and head don't know what the teacher said so it will be interesting to see what she says in front of SENCO tomorrow. So tough is good, that is useful to know. The teacher seems to me not to be coping overall and also referred to the fact that "there are a few very badly behaved kids in the class...". She did not finish the sentence but I think she was implying that those kids will get even worse if they see my DS behaving badly. But I am going to say my DS is responsible only for his own behaviour, not for that of other kids. I have heard from the LSA that the teacher is having quite a hard time, first time in nusery class for many years, and perhaps not used to a group of rowdy 3 year olds?? Your advice is very valuable, thank you. I will not let them fob me off and will let you know how it goes. I think the LEA would be on my side, as they want it to work (not least because there's not much other provision for ASD in my borough!). Thanks again Smilesam.

[SmileSam]

Good luck.

[aquariusmum]

Smilesam and Whizzz - thank you so much for your support as I had a much more positive meeting at the school today, with his class teacher, SENCO and TA present. There was much more focus on what he has achieved and we went through an IEP (which I'd never seen before and didn't know existed, but never mind) and he had achieved 4 and a half out of 5 targets. There was a bit of talk of the negatives but I stressed how much work I'm doing at home to put them right, and they were not dwelled upon. The only dodgy bit was at the end where they summarised by saying "yes, he's making progress but we don't feel able to say yet whether he's right for mainstream, and need to wait and see how next term goes." Then the teacher muttered a bit about reception being a lot more academic than nursery (actually that's not what I remember from my older child, think there's still quite a lot of play). But all in all, I feel relieved at a much more positive meeting. How much influence does the school's recommendation carry with the LEA when it comes to mainstream or not, do you think? I know the LEA want it to work out in mainstream, but will they change their mind if the school do not recommend him as a good candidate for it? Thanks again for any advice you can give me from "the other side".

[Whizzz]

glad your meeting went OK It sounds to me that the teacher has very little experience of ASD & is maybe feeling a little out of her depth.
I'm not sure how the school v LEA reaches decisions on mainstream v other schools to be honest - maybe someone else knows more

[cornsilk]

I missed this programme - was it positive anyone? Is it repeated?

[mccreadymum]

It was just a feature on the Channel 4 news Cornsilk so won't be repeated. It was basically saying the the govt's program of delegated funding is something of a joke, as the schools do not have to account for how the funds are spent, so often the SEN kids miss out, but the school gets a lovely coat of paint! That was the gist of it anyway.

[aquariusmum]

Thanks Whizzz - I think your analysis is spot on! She seems to be very nervous and afraid of quite a few of the kids in her class.

[Whizzz]

Is the TA any more comfortable ?? If she has little experience with ASD, I'd see if she wanted to ask any questions about what works at home (I'd bite the parents hand off for positive solutions that may help), unfortunately the parents of the ASD I mainly support are very negative about everything.
Funnily enough, there is a chance I may be able to attend a 1 day course on ASD I'm being allowed out !! (although still time to cancel !)- will keep you posted!

[SmileSam]

You're supposed to get an IEP with a review of the previous one, every term. In my experience, parents have a huge influence on where their child is educated and if the school want to remove a child they need to provide all kinds of evidence, including proof that the child is having a detrimental affect on other children's education in his class. We had a child with severe ADHD in our school, who was assaulting staff/children, throwing chairs around, running away, etc. (in Year 1) and we weren't able to place him anywhere else as the LEA insisted he was making 'some progress.' And yes, reception is supposed to be very play orientated. Either last year or the year before the curriculum in Year 1 also changed, with recommendations that a lot more play be included, to develop writing, number skills, etc. Money from the government was given for new 'home corners', toy garages, dressing up, play tills, etc. Don't give up, you know what's best for your child.

[aquariusmum]

Thank you both Whizzz and Smilesam - this is very very useful advice. We did get an IEP, at the meeting though it was the first time I'd ever seen it, but the good news is that he had "passed" 5 out of 6 targets, so the LEA would definitely consider that to be progress. I have heard before that kids are not thrown out easily, so am very pleased to hear it from someone who has so much experience! My TA is someone I recommended Whizzz and she has 5 years' experience of teaching ASD children using the behavioural therapy ABA (which sounds more complex than it actually is, it's basically about using the ASD kid's own motivation to get them to do things, ie if they do x, they get to play with x toy which they love for 2 mins). It works because unlike with NF kids, ASD kids won't do stuff just because you tell them, or because they want to please you, or because you use language to persuade them - so you have to find other ways to get them to comply, hence ABA. You have both made me feel a lot better. Thanks!