Please help...trying to work out what next move is, feel helpless with 9 month old DS sleeplessness!

(86 Posts)
welshbetty77 Mon 02-Jun-14 07:18:36

Hello...first post on here but not sure where else to turn to. Ds who is 9 months old has never been a great sleeper...he's NEVER slept through the night (yawn!) however recently, this last week things have taken a turn for the (even) worse and I'm finding things impossible. Firstly, he has a really bad cough and cold at the moment which I know is adding to difficulties but still, I'll explain.
'Routine' is something like this, tea at 5.30 (before he was poorly he was eating really well), a little play, in the night garden at 6.20 ( just on in background whilst he plays with his dad on his mat...I thought perhaps music etc may start to become familiar with bedtime) bath at 6.50 for approx ten minutes, pyjamas then book in room and breastfeed to sleep (I know, I know!). Firstly he starts to 'kick off' being dried and laid on change mat for nappy and pyjamas, we just sort of work through this with songs/chatting/ musical mobile etc, whatever it takes to get through. Usually I'd be able to feed him to sleep put him in cot, there may be a few wake ups which my partner could settle him for, then I'd feed him when he woke through the night, up to four times. I know this sounds bad but I wasn't entirely unhappy with this, he would feed for a relatively short time and I'd be able to put him back into cot asleep. He'd wake at about 5/5.30 at which point I'd bring him into bed with us and he'd feed on and off until we got up...sometimes we'd lie in til 8.30/9 depending on how tired I was!
But recently things have taken a whole new turn for the worst..his bedtime is a lot more difficult, feeding to sleep doesn't work as quickly anymore, I usually try to pull him off the breast at which point he wakes a little and I pop him in cot to shush pat him to sleep, sometimes this works, but now more often than not he pushes himself up and sits up crying, won't be placed back to lying down again and crying escalates until I pick him up and start feeding/rocking/walking/pacing again. Sometimes I'm in there an hour before he's down, at which point he'll usually wake again after 60/90 minutes again and need resettling. My partner goes in, usually tries to settle in cot (difficult as he's screaming, rolling around and sitting up etc) then more often than not I have to take over and end up feeding again. Each time this happens the more difficult he is to get back in cot, to the point that he's been in bed with me these last few nights and pretty much feeding nonstop, just so that I can get some zzzz's. Co sleeping with us both is now impossible, he is big and likes to be ON me which usually results in me balancing on about a millimetre of bed space and not actually sleeping at all, at least with dp not in bed I can move ds across bed frequently, until he decides to snake over again smile.
The thing is, I love the cuddles but it's getting to the point where I know it's not good for either of us anymore, this complete lack of consistent sleep, and to be honest the whole thing is feeling wild and out of control now...I don't know where to start to fix it. Dp thinks we should sometimes let him cry more before we go in to settle (but knows nothing about the technicalities of any 'sleep training' -cc methods of which I'm totally not into anyway) Oh and I should mention, he's not easily 'cuddled' either, arches away, kicks legs out pushes away, all resulting in waking himself up further!i ACTUALLY don't know what to do other than keep bringing him into bed with me every night, which I don't what to do for the foreseeable as it's not fair on dp having the sofa bed every night! Ds is still poorly at the moment but I just know is getting into a bad habit and when he's better will want to keep on sharing my bed! HELP.....where on earth do I bloody start?! sad

Cakeismymaster Mon 02-Jun-14 12:02:12

Hi welsh, didn't want you to go unanswered - unfortunately I d

Cakeismymaster Mon 02-Jun-14 12:04:00

Sorry! I don't have any advice for you because my dd of the same age is doing EVERYTHING you mention in your post, even down to having a cold - she is nearly 9 mths. I can literally tick off every point you listed. So am hoping someone will be along soon to offer a glimmer of hope...!

sososotired Mon 02-Jun-14 18:57:20

My DS is 9months and a terrible sleeper so we can form a club ;)
Ok so with feeding to sleep I changed our routine for 2 weeks, a long two weeks we did bath bottle story in bed drowsy first I patted or stroked him and then just held his hand and now 3months down the line I sit next to his bed while he falls asleep. Unfortunately there were tears from him and me as it's a change and babies are not good with change but I never left him to cry by himself.
It did help we do 5-6hour stretches at the moment and only 1 night feed which I'm happy to dosmile he does wake at 4ish when sometimes he moans and settles himself to sleep and other times I go in give him his dummy and hold his hand until he is asleep again usually 5-10 minutes. So there is hope
And just so that you know he has good and bad nights last night we woke every hour for no apparent reason and would only settle on my arms so ended co sleeping sad
With regards to the night feeds I was mean and cut them out one by one over a few months!

It does sound like he might be over tired though, my DS used to put up a massive fight before bed until I moved bedtime from 7 to 6:30 he gets up at 5;45 regardless so he gained half an hours sleep a nigh!
Hope that helps smile

usernameiwanted Mon 02-Jun-14 20:28:25

I may have some good advice? It might work, it might not..

Around 4 weeks ago, my 9 month old ds had never self soothed or slept through the night. The longest he had slept was 4 hours. Once.

He had to be breastfed to sleep every single time he woke up so no help from dh either. He used to wake every 2-3 hours but had got to a point where he was waking every 45 mins-1 hour. I was exhausted.

I had heard of controlled crying but absolutely did not want to try it. I still cant even think of just shutting the door and walking away with him crying and wanting me.

One very early morning after being woken at 4 (after justgetting back into bed at 3.30) I snapped. I went to his cot, comforted him (didnt feed him) but then pulled up and chair and sat down. I just pretended to be asleep. I did have squinty eyes so I could see him to make sure he wasnt hurting himself but he was fine.

He cried for 45 minutes until he layed down and went tosleep. It was the longest 45 mins of my life and I was sceptical that I was wasting my time and it might not even work. It would take a miracle to make my never slept through non self soother go to sleep. But it worked.

In the morning, he didn't hate me or give me death stares for leaving him to cry which I had been worried about. He was still so full of love and happiness and he did not seem bothered in the slightest!

When my dh mentioned doing it for day time naps I actually laughed. Surely not two miracles in less then 24hrs! But sure enough when nap time came, I put him in his cot after a feed (still awake!), he cried, he stood up, layed back down and went to sleep! All in about 20 mins.

I have since moved the chair away from his cot to the corner of the room but now sit just outside his door as he still looks to make sure I'm still there as hes going to sleep.

It has been hard but not as hard as I thought and I'm kicking myself I left it this late. You just need to be consistent. My rules are:
× Feed if he wakes before 12pm. (He did this when I was weaning his off night feeds. He has since cut this out too)
× Comfort him whens he wakes by picking up and singing, lay him down and sit yourself down.
× Bring a phone, book or actually do go to sleep whilst sitting there. (I only watched him the first couple of nights as they get so tired while crying they start falling over or banging head on cot)
× Do not move or say shush while sitting there. The idea is to enforce they need to get themselves to sleep. If you react to their crying, they will keep crying!
× When it looks like they've fallen asleep, wait 10 mins!!.Do not move straight away as they probably are not in a deep enough sleep yet or they're just tricking you!
× If you know if a pain cry, give calpol and pick up and cuddle etc but then lay him back down and sit down.
× Make it the same time every night time so he knows its coming! For naps, just make sure hes exhausted as if hes not he will scream and scream. He needs to be very tired but not over tired.
× if you do want to try this, put him to bed as normal butthen start this during the night. The idea is that hopefully he's too tired to put up a fight.

wow, this is proving to be long! My ds is 10 months now and sleeps from 7 -5.30. I absolutely recommend doing this method, buy the 3rd day he had it! Now if fifty fifty, sometimes he goes down without a sound but others he cries. I always count how many seconds he cries for and very very rarely do I get past the number 10!!

I hope you find this useful! Trust me, it is easier then it looks and it really works! I have my evenings and my bed back and it feels amazing! Feel free to pm any questions. Sorry for the overly long post!

avocadoadvantage Mon 02-Jun-14 22:34:27

I feel your pain. I have an 8.5 month old who has never slept through (by any definition).

Until recently she was breastfed until asleep then put in the cot and I'd sneak out. I decided that it was time to help her fall asleep without being on the boob and she stopped falling asleep automatically while feeding too. I put her in her cot and sat nearby. If she cried and stood up, I responded immediately but after cuddles and soothing would lay her down again and rub her back a little. She very quickly started to snuggle down and the crying was minimal.

After that, I moved to putting her down awake and immediately leaving the room. Again, I would return as soon as she started to cry- I would be rubbish doing cry it out! Lol.

Everything I've read suggests that if babies can settle themselves to sleep at bedtime they'll do the same when they wake at night. This is not the case for our dd. She always wakes shouting and now stands up and cries. She can sometimes be settled without feeding so that's progress I guess.

What I'm trying to say is, you're not alone!

AChickenNamedDirk Mon 02-Jun-14 23:02:22

If trying doing all the bedtime stuff earlier. Also could he be cold post bath?

Tea by 4.30
Tv if you have around 5.30
In the bath 6pm
Feed to sleep by 6.25.

I had massive issues with my dd2 at this age as she could only drop off to sleep via feeding. Had to use a gentle method to wean off all night feeds immediately. Fixed it 80% within 1 wk. 100% by one month. She was then waving me off
at bed time.

rootypig Mon 02-Jun-14 23:11:25

Agree with username approach, though with DD it worked that we picked her up and comforted her (with words and cuddles) then put her back down. All babies (all people, actually) rouse in the night and put themselves back to sleep - by the time you're a child, you're so good at it you don't remember the shifts in consciousness. You need DS to be falling asleep in a way that he can replicate himself in the night. He needs to feel ok about being awake and in his cot, alone. Naps are a good time to work on this, it's easier than night bedtime for some reason.

The bath in your current routine is definitely too late. A bath is stimulating, and raises the core temperature, which delays sleep. This is true for at least half an hour after the bath.

I would be doing tea, then bath, then feed, then quiet play (stories are good), then bed.

rootypig Mon 02-Jun-14 23:14:28

Oh just spotted avocado's post. Responding to crying straight away worked really well for us too. It's reassuring for them, I think, to know that if they need you, you'll come. They learn this and relax so quickly! clever babies. I reassure DD and leave while she's still awake.

welshbetty77 Mon 02-Jun-14 23:23:41

Ladies...thank you all so much for your responses and isn't it nice to know that there are others in the same boat as us?!
Well...you won't bloody believe this, but I'd obviously reached some sort of pinnacle today. After writing this post this morning, and talking with friends until I was blue in the face today we tried a new approach.
We changed bath time to straight after tea so that helped with the happy/pyjama kick off, then straight after in the night garden and cuddles with dad I took ds into bedroom, put him in grobag, we closed the blinds together saying n'night to the birdies then sat in nursing chair with his 'night night' book.
Read that once, b'fed him until started to pull off/mess about (so I knew he was full) then actually dared to put him in cot wide awake, popping Ewan the musical sheep on.
He got straight up, smiling and trying to play with the sheep (bless him sad) but I laid him back down all the while repeating comforting phrases 'night night DS/ it's sleepy time now/ time to go to sleep in your cot so you feel nice and refreshed in the morning/it's ok mummy's here' and rubbing and patting his back, laying him down every time he tried to get up.
Of course there was tears and sobbing (who wouldn't be bloody confused by it all bless him?!) and there were a number of pick ups and put downs (always awake) but after only 20 mins HE FELL ASLEEP???!!! (I literally can't believe it).
Now, there's been two more wake ups since, where I did exactly the same things, the second for about ten mins and the third for about 20 again...but he's been soundly asleep now since about 8.45 smile
I don't know what was different today apart from me waking up this morning knowing something had to change...mainly because I felt the situation wasn't/isn't doing him (or me) any favours anymore and actually it's not fair to him for him to need me to fall asleep! I definitely felt calmer and more in control tonight, because I believed in my resolve I suppose and even though the crying was hideous (our own babies cry is MEANT to distress us mummies!! sad) I knew that with me talking, gently touching and soothing him that his distress was kept to a minimum and I'm not doing any stressful cortisol inducing method which for me is paramount. I definitely felt differently waking up today doni guess each of us reach that point at different times, I've no doubt that I'll be up a number of times again tonight, and I'm even prepared to feed him again, (although I'm trying to limit to set myself a target to not feed before 1am) but I feel SO much more positive than I did when first writing this this morning. Thank you again to everyone who took the time to respond today, I'm so grateful, I'll let you know how we get on in the coming week if you like? Maybe we can be one another's support team?! ��

rootypig Mon 02-Jun-14 23:27:35

Brilliant! sounds like you've made a great start. Just be consistent now, it sounds as though he's ready for it.

welshbetty77 Mon 02-Jun-14 23:30:21

Oh and I'm also going to shift feed to before book...good point. Crikey we all must have read so many of the same books/posts/forums that really we know the advice before we even actually ask it! �� thank you thank you thank
you xxx

welshbetty77 Mon 02-Jun-14 23:32:35

Hey rootypig...I think you're absolutely right, HE is as ready if not more ready than me...that's why I feel so strongly that it's the right thing I think. Just hope my resolve isn't weakened in the still of the night!

rootypig Mon 02-Jun-14 23:34:19

I had a day like you too, a real moment of resolve when I decided to do something about it. DD was so tired and so was I.

welshbetty77 Tue 03-Jun-14 02:09:40

Oh. My. Goodness. So, firstly ignore the time I am posting this but using the opportunity to log my information as well as offload/impart!
So, the babe awoke crying at just gone midnight, so I went into his room to try and settle him in cot...the procedure took ages and ages with lots and lots of pick up/put downs...and in the end I fed him because I figured it must have been about 1am (what would have been others advice in this situation by the way, seeing as I'd set myself the 1am goal?) anyway this wasn't the greatest move either I don't think �� took forever to get ddds back to sleep in his cot, through lots of upset and frustrated, confused tears AND coughing (which made me feel guilty that I shouldn't have started this until I know he's fully over this coldsad) and made me almost give up and bring him into bed! However, I didn't, and he fell asleep on his side with me patting his little bottom and Ewan the sheep going wonky as he's running out of battery! It was 2am by time I came out. Tomorrow might be a LOOOONG day

sososotired Tue 03-Jun-14 06:49:08

You did well sticking to your guns!!
If it makes you feel better my DS woke at 3 and cried no matter what (I'm cutting out night feeds) I offered water instead which p&:sd him right off sad I tried sitting next to him and almost gave in all that was going through my head was give him a bottle and take him to your bed!! But I didn't I got a mattress and lay on the floor next to his bed holding his hand he calmed down and went to sleep at 4 sad
But got up at 6;30 full of smiles smile

welshbetty77 Tue 03-Jun-14 07:29:36

Yay well done you too sososotired!! It's so hard in the dead of the night, with their little sobs ringing in your ears to not just give in isn't it?! What kept me going was to keep thinking 'I'm doing this for him, it's not fair that he doesn't get to sleep a whole full night through bless him' and that kept me going I think! He woke at 5.30, full of smiles too (yay, they don't hate us!) I fed him, and have given him breakfast and fed him again (he's still off food after being ill) but will try for a nap being put down awake...eeek!

sososotired Tue 03-Jun-14 07:34:04

Good luck for your naps!! We are down to one long nap a day (DS did this himself) so after lunch we go to bed with a full belly and he goes to sleep like an angel now I typed it he will probably protest today
Keep updating and hopefully we will get somewhere together smile
I start work in just over a week so an improvement would be awesome smile

AChickenNamedDirk Tue 03-Jun-14 09:03:05

Brilliant!!

Keep at it and be totally totally consistent.

grin

avocadoadvantage Tue 03-Jun-14 15:24:18

I'm really pleased for you Welshbetty. I hope things continue on the right track. People have told me that day 4-5 can often seem like you're back to the start but keep going and you'll get through. Like you, I' was always against any crying methods but I am approaching this as me needing to teach her and being understanding to her confusion and frustration when I change the rules. Totally agree with rootypig that I see returning to her when she cries as proving she can trust me to return if she really needs me. Very different to my SiL's approach who said 'it takes 3 nights to break them'. Hmmm :-(

For us it's the nighttime wakes that are the issue now bedtime is sorted. She usually sleeps from 7:30-11 but will always wake around then and is usualky hungry. I feed her then as I'm going to bed but her worst time is 12-5 when she seems to wake 2-4 times. I wonder how much of her waking is habit, especially when cosleeping with boob on tap.

My resolve goes in the night and I'm quick to tuck her in bed with me rather than fully wake up myself. It doesn't help that she's in our room still I think. Have others found it easier once they are in their own room? Love the idea of a support group btw :-)

sososotired Tue 03-Jun-14 17:39:42

Good luck to everyone for the night ahead!!

sososotired Tue 03-Jun-14 18:33:15

We've had a breakthrough and DH is at work so I thought I'd share on here, DS had his bath story and bottle and I put him in bed awake with a kiss and walked out of his room, no crying nothing he has just gone to sleep smile

welshbetty77 Tue 03-Jun-14 18:39:40

Woop woop sotired...that's awesome, well done you guys! Good news here too, (please don't jinx myself please don't jinx myself!) we rejigged slightly, fed, then book then down awake (at 6.30 rather than 7) and although there's was slight protest, 8 mins in and he's fast asleep!!! Crikey it can't really work this quickly can it?!

welshbetty77 Tue 03-Jun-14 18:44:01

Avocado thank you that's really useful knowing about a possible day 4/5 regression...I will be armed with that knowledge now! Love what you say about being totally understanding to LO's confusion and frustration, that's exactly how I feel, we have gotten into these habits together but it's only me that can help break them and to teach new ones...I owe it to him to teach him how to fall asleep by himself! Good luck everyone, let's all stay strong together! Xxx

welshbetty77 Tue 03-Jun-14 20:46:38

Ok...so I might have jinxed myself, he's been awake three times so far, first two were really quick in cot settles, the last one I had to pick him up as he was really breaking his heart (and mine too in the process sad) but I didn't have to feed him at all...just really want him to get it for his sake so he doesn't feel the turmoil of it all...hope I don't have to battle like this with him for very long ��

Smartiepants79 Tue 03-Jun-14 20:58:00

Stick it out! You're doing really well and so is he.
Remember this is for long term gains for you and him.
He will not remember any of it. He will not hold it against you for ever!
Stay strong.

rootypig Tue 03-Jun-14 21:39:16

welshbetty please don't worry about picking him up to comfort him - we did with DD and it made no difference at all to her ability to settle in the cot. It was the milk that she wanted and once she understood that it wasn't coming, and fell asleep without it a few times, she started to sleep through pretty reliably. So if you want to pick DS up, do, do, do.

Cakeismymaster Tue 03-Jun-14 21:52:12

Hi all, are you sticking to a set time not to feed? Say between 12 and 6? As dd went to bed really well at 7 and has just woken so I did feed/settle her (and she did feed properly) so was that right or wrong?

rootypig Tue 03-Jun-14 22:23:06

Ime - which was getting DD off bottle feeds, not BF, but imagine same principles apply - it was key not to feed her if we wanted her to go back to sleep, at all. The one night DH twat did this after I had worked incredibly hard to get her to self settle, she then immediately started to wake and fail to self settle again.

If your babies are all over 7/8 months they don't need night feeds. They might be reverse cycling, to some degree, but all the more reason to break the pattern. DD was having 12oz formula across two bottles in the night at that age, so two full feeds, and it was sheer habit. Once weaned off it she slept through with no problems. Feeding properly is not a sign of hunger (sorry!) but a sign of reliance on suckling / a full feeling to get back to sleep.

welshbetty77 Wed 04-Jun-14 02:18:49

Thanks Rooty that makes me feel better about picking him up sad although even when I don't my upper torso is practically in the cot with him soothing and cuddling...the confused crying just gets me right where it hurts! So after 3 wake up and settles before 9pm (the last of which I picked him up for) ds only just woke at 1.45! In answer to you cakeismymaster I've set myself the goal not to feed before 1am but for any wake ups after I would feed. I agree with you rooty about not being hungry per se but I'd been feeding him so much through the night (albeit for comfort/habit) that to just go 'cold turkey' would mean his tum felt weirdly empty! My feeling is though that I won't have to do this for long anyway...I hope he'll start sleeping through! So I got him out of cot, fed him, sat him up to make sure he was sake, told him he was going back to bed then laid him down. Again, a little protest (he kind of kicks out and does a frustrated shout/cry) but after a little singing and patting he went to sleep and I was back in bed at 2.05!!!!!!! Fingers crossed!!!! Can't wait to hear about your nights toosmile

welshbetty77 Wed 04-Jun-14 02:19:56

Sake?=awake!

sososotired Wed 04-Jun-14 06:16:08

Cake how old is your babe? DS is 9 months and I have set him a time limit for feeds after 11 as that's when daddy comes home so he wakes most nights and then only after 5 but after 6 we start the day smile

Welshbetty your doing great I have done LOADS of searches and will take 3 or 4 nights for him to accept what your doing and then regress so just keep going!

A little update from my little sleep depriver;
He had our break through at bed time with him going to sleep by himself smile then stirred at 9 but by the time I got to his room from mine 30 seconds max he was asleep again smile
Woke at 1:30 for his feed! And started the day at 5:30
So improvement smile I'm working tomorrow kit day so hoping he does this tonight too!

welshbetty77 Wed 04-Jun-14 07:42:10

Sotired that's amazing...your little one did the ultimate, he settled himself...woop! Little monkey woke at 5.30 again so brought him into bed for first morning feed, then...and I'm sure this is a big no-no, we both fell asleep until now :/! He didn't fall asleep at the boob so that's one good thing, what should I do in this instance then as he clearly could've slept longer? Should I not feed and resettle back in cot at 5.30? What do you think seasoned sleep trainers...rooty, avocado? Hope I haven't done any damage to the training by doing this :/
Also...has anyone got their partner on board for the settling yet? I'd like to but don't know if it'll be more effective and quicker if I just stick with it myself!

sososotired Wed 04-Jun-14 08:28:49

I try feed in his room if it's before 6 if he falls asleep then yay back to bed if not then we start the day sad
But I don't think it's a bad thing that he came to you, I want my lo to know my door is always open if he needs cuddles etc??
With regards to daddy helping, bless him, he tries but takes far longer than if I go but he does settle eventually. He settles brilliantly if I'm not home though so if I'm out at a kit day and he stays with DH he pops him in bed and walks away (nap time) and DS settles with very little resistance [hmmm] but for me there is a lot of crying if I walk out?

sososotired Wed 04-Jun-14 18:57:49

It was a once off for falling asleep alone!!!!! I've been sitting here for over 30 minutes and he is still not sleeping or letting me leave the room nor is he drinking his milk sad sad sad I have to leave for work at 6;45 I can't have a bad night tonight (sobbing quietly to myself)

welshbetty77 Wed 04-Jun-14 19:54:29

Oh crikey sotired has the master released you from his lair yet?! Thing is it's not important (in the long run) that he hasn't done it tonight...the fact is he has shown you he CAN now and that's amazing. Don't worry about work, it might be horrific but it's a day, and look at all the full on days you've done with ds on no sleep?! I bet 'work' will be a bloody break! My little munchkin went down with his haul protesting but within 15 mins and has been in bed for over an hour now... How long does the protesting last for though guys? I absolutely hate it and it makes me feel like shit...and I had a sudden fear tonight that things won't get better...that this will just be how it is and he'll get upset and angry before every sleep sad don't want him to start having negative connotations with his bedroom and/or cot either you know?

sososotired Wed 04-Jun-14 20:06:55

He finally fell asleep at 7:30 without a feed or a cry just rolling around his bed only cried/screamed if I left sad

It does get better welsh ok it's not always easy as proved by my little sleep depriver today but usually we read a story bottle cuddle bed and I sit next to him without touching him and he goes off to sleep without crying, and I guess it takes longer for some we've had massive set backs ... Teeth, hospital stay, holiday and it's almost like we have to start again but he gets the hang of it quicker every time! Maybe when he's 12 we will have this down wink

sososotired Wed 04-Jun-14 20:10:59

Ps I play with him in his room every day! Peek a boo with him in bed and me bopping up and down like a crazy person makes him laugh so I can't resist give him some toys while I leave his room and come back in after little while I guess I'm hoping that he learns through play that mummy will always come back?

avocadoadvantage Wed 04-Jun-14 21:32:25

Bless you Welshbetty for calling me 'seasoned'. I'm not, I can assure you! We had a shocking night last night. She cried for ages as I tried to get her down. In and out so many times. She was cross when I picked her up and cross when I put her down. hmm

Then when she woke in the night I tried to not feed her immediately and see if she would settle with a cuddle. It worked twice (fed the rest) but she must have woken about 4-5 times between midnight and 6:30am. Not good at all.

Tonight I started bedtime earlier and had her down by 7pm as I think we were drifting to a later bedtime and being overtired. She complained quite a bit but did settle only to wake an hour later! Gah! Cuddled and put back down and fingers crossed she's still down.

I'm trying to tackle all areas of eating and sleeping to see if they are linked. Keeping a food diary for us both to see if any patterns emerge for intolerances/ digestive issues. Also, I offered her bf every 2 hours in the day in case she is topping up at night because she's not eating enough in the day. I also stayed at home today to make sure she had a long nap. She slept from about 10:15-12.40 which is an annoying time! Then had another 30 mins after baby sensory at 3:30-4:15pm. What are your babies' naps like?

sososotired Wed 04-Jun-14 23:23:56

He seems to be changing from 2 naps to one so in limbo at the m

sososotired Wed 04-Jun-14 23:26:29

Sorry premature send! Moment, if it's a bad night 2 naps are required 9:30-10:30 and another after lunch 1:30-3:00 in a one nap day 12:30-3:00. Give or take a half an hour here and there smile

sososotired Thu 05-Jun-14 06:06:56

A little update before work;
He did brilliantly well except for his bed time resulting in tears (from me) he only woke at 11 I gave him a bottle popped him in bed and walked out, didn't hear from him again till 5 am I tried feeding and rocking gave up at 5:30 to start the day smile

How was everyone else's night?

avocadoadvantage Thu 05-Jun-14 08:02:44

Brilliant sotired!

Dd went down at 7 with a little grumbling. Woke at 8 and 10 but settled with a cuddle. It took 45 Mins at 10 though as she's used to a feed then and she was furious! Also offered water and fresh nappy. Woke at 12 and fed as that was my cutoff time. Awake at 1 for cuddle. Woke once more to feed before awake for good at 6:30am.

Reading back this looks rubbish compared to some of your nights but the fact she only bf twice is pretty amazing for us! Onwards and upwards!

riskit4abiskit Thu 05-Jun-14 13:42:39

Hello everyone. My ds is just 9mths. He also has a cold too, op's baby sounds just like mine.

last night he woke every hour sad

I have noticed a change in the last month though. Before he rooted around for food but now he just wakes up angry. I end up feeding him to sleep just the same. Does everyone else have a baby that wakes up angry in the night (rather than just awake bored or playful?). He awakes on his front and seems to be very restless. Even when feeding in the day he is trying to flip onto front. He is learning to crawl and walk simultaneously I think and he just cant seem to turn off at night

Prior to these last few weeks I was having success at putting him down in cot awake to sleep, but he still woke up in the night about three times .

any help appreciated Thanks

riskit4abiskit Thu 05-Jun-14 13:43:44

Does offering water make them more frustrated. Is it better to give nothing in the night?

sososotired Thu 05-Jun-14 16:51:16

Well done avocado your LO will soon get the hang of not feeding too much at night took ages for me to cut out feeds! I stopped changing his nappy at night he seemed to wake up too much!

riskit google 9 month sleep regression apparently some babies will try their new skills no matter what the time my DS does this too as he can't crawl yet but is trying but he just goes back to sleep? As for offering water at night he gets angry but I thought it's better than nothing?

welshbetty77 Thu 05-Jun-14 20:29:44

Hi all! Sorry for not getting back sooner, I wrote an insanely long post this morning when ds had his nap only to lose it all when battery died...grrrr! So, last night seemed better, especially the start...ds went down at 6.30 and didn't even stir until 10.30! Then it just took a little while to settle back in cot.
Woke 12.35am settled back by 12.55am without feeding
Woke 3.40 took straight out of cot and fed, back in cot still awake, one protest cry then almost asleep immediately! Back in bed 3.50
Awake 5.37 kept him in cot until 6am then did the whole big morning routine (to mark start of day) taking him out of grobag and opening blinds etc before bringing him into bed with me for a feed.
So...we'll keep going until we get somewhere. I'm so so happy with the reduction of feeds needed, but I can't wait for there to be no protest when I put him down!
Tonight he took 20 mins to go down and we've had to resettle twice already...
Naps are hit and miss for us but with project 'nail sleep' this week they've been better! A friend told me that if you get nights sorted first, naps wfall into place easily.
Avocado I think as you say what's important for you is that things are an improvement...FOR YOU, it doesn't matter how anyone else is doing!
I DEF don't change nappy at night either, only if he's leaked or pooed (which he never does in night anymore).
Sotired how was work?! Was ds ok today without you? Xxx

welshbetty77 Thu 05-Jun-14 20:30:44

Oh and risk it..live not been offering water in the night but possibly will do so when I try and drop this one feed...slowly slowly sleepy baby!

sososotired Thu 05-Jun-14 21:02:26

He went down like a dream again tonight story feed cuddle kiss put him in his bed and off I went smile

Work was great I had so much fun, it was hard leaving this morning DS threw his little arms up and cried as I was leaving but DH said he soon perked up! I still cried in the car though sad struggled with naps today but I just think I don't care how he gets to sleep rocking, pushchair ect as long as he has a rest!

Well done to everyone for making progress!!!! smile

sososotired Fri 06-Jun-14 06:07:21

Another little update before work;
He is getting the hang of this sleeping thing! Went down at 6:30 like a dream then woke at 2:30 for a bottle took a while to settle him back down but I was inbed again by 2:50 and we slept till 5:30 smile so we are sleeping better at night but getting up early, does any one have a suggestion to help fix this a 6/6:30 wake up would be ideal!

How did everyone else get on? X

riskit4abiskit Fri 06-Jun-14 11:36:36

Soso that sounds great to me! Tried putting babybiskit down awake to sleep and it took over an hour to get him to sleep. He kept sobbing his heart out. I let him cry a few mins with me next to him singing then I read his book put him down with white noise playing then repeat x about 8 times! After that he woke every 2 hours but at least it wasnt every hour!

When babyb was waking at 5.30 it was because his nappy was sopping wet I changed him and he would feed back to sleep til 7 but im sure you have tried this

sososotired Fri 06-Jun-14 19:12:39

I tried feeding but I think he is getting up earlier because he's not waking as much at night?

sososotired Fri 06-Jun-14 19:12:58

How's every one getting on?

riskit4abiskit Fri 06-Jun-14 19:17:45

Five minutes into being put down and mine has stood up despite being in a bag and is grinning at me as I type. Obviously the white noise must be losing it's touch.

How are you doing?

sososotired Fri 06-Jun-14 20:00:31

He went down like a dream, hour and a half down the line and he is crying in his sleep!! It's a little upsetting for me I don't know if I should be waking him or leaving him to cry?

rootypig Fri 06-Jun-14 20:47:55

soso you can try comforting him in his sleep with pats and murmurs.

Re early waking, I think he's waking naturally because of his sleep cycle (three hours after the previous waking) but not tired enough to resettle properly.

riskit4abiskit Fri 06-Jun-14 20:58:41

Aww crying in his sleep, bless him! I have never heard of that. Can you gently stroke him quiet?

mine eventually settled after 45mins not as much crying tonight. Tried to wake after 45mins but I white noised him back to sleep

rootypig Fri 06-Jun-14 21:10:36

ps DD (19mo) cries in her sleep when she's overtired, she wakes when overtired too. Now she is a steady sleeper, it's easier to spot the aberrations!

avocadoadvantage Fri 06-Jun-14 23:17:02

riskit My baby has recently been waking up 'angry' rather than just snuffling about for a feed when she's in bed with me.

Last night we tried what the HV advised and described as the broken record technique. Well, I don't know if we were doing it wrong or what but as we sat on the landing listening to our darling baby cry, I realised it was CIO under a different name and I wanted no part of that. I marched in and scooped her up for a big cuddle at which point she relaxed and lay down to sleep. Down at 8, woke at 12 and 3 then up at 7:30. Happy with that.

Also, I feel like a total bitch as today she revealed a new tooth at the top. No wonder her sleep has been upset. sad Have decided to take the pressure off her. More milk in the day seems to be helping too.

avocadoadvantage Fri 06-Jun-14 23:24:25

Interesting what you say about naps sososotired. My lo has her longest nap of the day in the pram in the living room. She settles herself to sleep. She also naps on long car journeys, out in pram and in the sling. The HV said that's all cool- as she put it 'you could try to make her nap in her cot for 2 hours a day but who wants to be stuck indoors for the next 3 years!'. Quite!

sososotired Fri 06-Jun-14 23:58:18

I just had a 2 hour battle with a baby crying/screaming his head off we ended up watching peppa pig just to distract him! I'm hoping its teeth but something is definitely wrong!

Rootypig he may be over tired too I was at work today and he stayed with DH who tried to stick to the routine but DS did just as he pleased so only napped in the morning when I came home at 4 he was so excited no way I could get him to sleep!!

Well done Avocado progress again! I agree with you about CIO I don't want any of that I always go in when DS cries and he is perfectly capable of self settling!

sososotired Sat 07-Jun-14 00:02:18

Riskit I ended up with him lying on my chest in bed so I just felt if he moans in right there so he's not lonely or scared smile did also give him a nice dose of paracetamol incase it's teeth! And fingers crossed he's been asleep for 30 mins or so with no moaning!!

sososotired Sat 07-Jun-14 07:15:19

What a night!! He woke very upset at 2 & 4 took an hour and a half to settle him again at 4 with a bottle etc and he woke up again at 6:15 sad I feel like I've had a night on the town sad!

How was everyone else's night?

catyloopylou Sat 07-Jun-14 10:59:45

Really glad I've seen this thread. DS2 is just 9 months and I'm struggling with early wake ups, from 5am. Anything after 6am feels like a lie in.

He usually goes down ok between 7.30 and 8pm (I'm working on getting this earlier but struggle with DS1 3 years to see to as well when DH is late home) after bath, breastfeed and cuddles. He usually feeds to sleep despite my best efforts to keep him awake long enough for a good feed. The last week he's been waking at 9.30pm, grouching then crying and only once have I been able to resettle him without feeding.

I was hoping to cut out his 10.30pm dreamfeed but I don't want to do that while he's waking so soon after putting down. He is in our room and probably will be for another few months till we can move him into his own room.

When he wakes at 5ish he quickly gets upset if I don't pick him up immediately and I don't want him crying too long incase it wakes DS1. I then take him into bed for a feed and occasionally we doze for a bit, then up at 7 for the day.

During the day he has 2 naps, one around 9.30 or 10am, then another at 3pm. Depending on what we're doing and playgroup pickups etc one nap will be 1.5 hours and the other around 45 minutes. He doesn't like napping in his cot but will in the car or buggy if out. Of course, that is if DS1 doesn't wake him up to play!

does anyone have any suggestions for trying to encourage him to wake up later in the morning? I'm feeling so tired at the moment I end up being a real grump which isn't fair for DS1, who was the most amazing sleeper from really young so never had to do anything.

sososotired Sat 07-Jun-14 13:47:15

Catyloop as you can see from my posts I have an early riser, and he is ready for the day when he wakes at 5 non of this I will feed and go back to sleep or go in my bed nonsense smile I've been thinking that maybe it's the fact that it gets light so early so will be blocking out all light with foil for a few days as a test!! This morning doesn't count due to our horrific night last! But I will post my findings smile

catyloopylou Sat 07-Jun-14 19:01:50

sososo I'll be watching with interest!

riskit4abiskit Sat 07-Jun-14 23:13:16

Avacado I agree with you about not letting them cry. My mum keeps telling me 'its the only way' but as soon as babybiskit even squeaks in the day she says 'oh he wants his mummy!' And hands him over for a cuddle!

Yesterday we put a blanket over top of curtains to try and block more light out. Dont know if its having any effect

avocadoadvantage Sat 07-Jun-14 23:27:55

Another decent night. We decided to look for her sleep cues more rather than trying to force a 7pm bedtime as noticed she often goes off at 8 whenever we begin.

Last night relaxed bath, boob and story routine then a lovely cuddle and into the cot where she snuggled down and went to sleep at 9pm. Woke at 12 and 3 for feeds. Came into bed at 3am and woke at 7 but smiled at me and went back to sleep until 7:45am. Lovely lie in! Hehe

She went down brilliantly at 8ish tonight and is still asleep.. Fingers crossed :-)

How are you all getting on?

sososotired Sun 08-Jun-14 05:55:44

Well done avocado I like following sleep cues smile and the sound of a relaxing bath my DS loves his bath but I don't think it's relaxing he splashes and turns stands up giggles smile

We've done brilliantly last night smile went to bed at 7 woke at 2:30 for a feed and up for the day at 5:30 so no nice lay ins for me but atleast he started sleeping nice long stretches!!
So far blacking out his room has no effect smile

avocadoadvantage Sun 08-Jun-14 08:25:03

Sounds good Soso. I'm not sure about solving early waking. We've not yet added that to our list of sleep woes. wink

Bed at 8.30 as short nap in car until 6. Woke at 12 and 3 to feed and up at 7:40.

If this continues I might try knocking the 12 feed on the head and see if we can just have the 3am wake. Also I guess I'll need to be stricter about going back in her cot at 3am but it's just sooo much easier to take her to bed to feed! (Lazy mama alert!)

welshbetty77 Sun 08-Jun-14 20:25:34

Hi ladies! Wow, looks like we really are all getting somewhere hey? My little bubs went down awake tonight without crying at all, for the first time!?! He tried to get up in his cot and rolled around for a bit but definitely went to sleep quicker and NO CRYYYINNNNG! Wahoo! I'm still feeding once a night, usually around 3am, then wake up is usually around 5am, at which point my will and resolve is as tired as I am, and I bring him into bed with me for (delicious!) cuddles and we usually go back to sleep til 7/7.30ish! I'm definitely tweaking and playing with bedtimes....optimum time at the mo seems to be between 6.50-7.10pm. I think day naps are getting slightly better too, but honestly think he doesn't need any longer than 40 mins-1 hour in the afternoon as well as the morning, anyone else like this?

sososotired Sun 08-Jun-14 20:30:33

avocado good luck for dropping that feed, we were met with a lot of resistance but only lasted a few night smile
With regards to putting your LO in bed with you I found that if it's every now and then he doesn't fuss the next night if he has to stay in his room I just needed to break the habit first!

Tonight was hard for us! DS was unhappy all day I think he is teething! So when it came to bed time he was screaming and arching his back... I ended up lying in his bed till he fell asleep!! I'm hoping for a good night though!!

Good luck to everyone!

welshbetty77 Sun 08-Jun-14 21:10:03

Ooh, also ladies, interested to know from those of you who've dropped the night feeds but still breastfeed in morning and night...did you find it has affected your supply at all? Am keen to keep feeding him myself in morning and night for as long as possible so unsure wether I'm better off keeping my one feed during the night to do this...? TIA

Smartiepants79 Sun 08-Jun-14 22:11:39

I dropped to mornings and evenings only and then just bedtimes at the end.
My supply did not seem to be affected at all. My DDs never seemed to feel that there wasn't enough. At some point they are no longer really feeding for food just comfort and habit.

welshbetty77 Sun 08-Jun-14 22:20:23

Thanks smartie that's good to know, I'm sure the comfort and habit is more me than him to be honest! wink

sososotired Mon 09-Jun-14 07:06:14

How did every one get on last night?

We had a ok night 7-2:30 bottle refused to settle so he came to bed with me popped him on his bed at 4 fast asleep and woke at 5:30 smile

riskit4abiskit Mon 09-Jun-14 09:01:07

Hello. Soso you are doing brilliantly and I am green with envy! Took two feeds to get asleep last night then up at 3, 5,up for the day at 7. Also needed white noising when stirred before 12.

I also keep giving up and bringing ds into my bed but his little chubby legs are so squeeeee I just have no resistance. sad

If you have any questions about supply I heartily recommend the breastfeeding support network phone line I called them for the first time yesterday and the lady was fab and very knowledgeable.

sososotired Mon 09-Jun-14 09:01:26

Experiencing something new, DS is throwing MASSIVE tantrums when I try to put him down for a nap regardless of being rocked in his pushchair or being put in bed awake. Arching his back going red in the face and screaming??? Anyone ever experience this if so what did you do?

beccajoh Mon 09-Jun-14 09:16:25

What time is he napping versus what time work up? At that age my daughter transitioned to one longer nap at lunch time 2-3 hours, but she had to be in bed no later than 4.5 hours after she first woke or she got horribly overtired. She was usually up at 7am, so I did lunch stupidly early at 10.45 and then she was asleep by 11.30. More often than not she was asleep by 6.30pm for the night (she didn't STTN though). The early bed time definitely helped her not get too over tired. Sleep begets sleep. Even now at 23m she's often asleep by 7pm and sleeps until at least 7am. I've noticed on days where she's overtired she sleeps worse and will often wake up early the following morning.

That's what works for her, anyway...

beccajoh Mon 09-Jun-14 09:17:01

waking up not work up!

beccajoh Mon 09-Jun-14 09:17:44

She still has a two hour nap, 12.30-14.30.

sososotired Mon 09-Jun-14 10:04:17

Thanks beccajoh!! He gets up between 5 and 5;45 so I tried his naps at 9:30 he likes just one nap after lunch! I thought I would try giving him a bottle at 10 and the. Nap at 10:30/11 and just let him sleep as long as he likes hoping for 2/3 hours?? And then lunch after that.

sososotired Tue 10-Jun-14 16:51:15

How is everyone getting on?

sososotired Wed 11-Jun-14 06:19:47

Last night was terrible!!! He did so well with only 1 wake up for ages now, then last night he woke up so many times he ended up sleeping with me from 11-3 then popped him in his own bed and he slept till 5 then till 6 sad I'm so tired. And I start back at work full time on Monday I was hoping that he would be sleeping by now! sad sad sad

GeorgieJo Thu 12-Jun-14 15:28:43

New to this thread - but have an 8 month old who is going through some of the same issues: multiple nighttime wake ups, really angry crying (and kicking his legs on the mattress) if I don't immediately pick him up and feed him back to sleep, plus starts the day between 5 and 530am.

I am shattered!

Realise I am part of the problem because I am not consistent - will often give in and feed, or take him into bed with me on a really bad night. Just have no strength to do anything else at 1/2/3/4am...

Hoping that someone will provide the magic answer!

sososotired Thu 12-Jun-14 19:06:39

GeorgieJo I have no magic answer and as you can see from this thread my DS is not that good at sleeping and his 10 months next week!

What I can say is that dropping his 3am feed was hard but made a massive difference and also teaching him to fall asleep in his bed at bed time which is hit and miss some nights I put him down and walk out and he just goes off and tonight I've been sitting next to his bed for 30 minutes waiting for him to drop off but since we've made those changes on a good night he only wakes once smile

I did see a HV at baby clinic today who said babies often struggle to sleep when they are learning a new skill, we are learning to crawl and stand up which may explain our 2 sleepless nights!!

Don't give up and try to be consistent it helps the baby to know what to expect!

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