Phrases that make you weep(143 Posts)
So I have a difficult sleeper. I've been on here at various points desperate for advice. However, thought I'd start a giggle lighthearted thread for a change.
What phrases make you want to just face palm whenever someone says them?
My recent one, when I was explaining why a time wouldn't work for us, was 'why not come anyway and they can sleep in the other room while we carry on?'
I think I did well to laugh rather than openly weep.
"Sleep when baby sleeps."
Er, I think you'll find THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
Yes. I find that really hard when endlessly walking her in a sling. In rain, hail and snow
Yup. That one always makes me chuckle too
Babies don't NEED night feeds after 6 months.
Ok well I'm sure she'll happily and quietly wait for 9 hours til morning to be fed then.
My friend said to me about 9 mth old ds,
When he wakes in the night, would he not just play in his cot for a while?
Errr no, he wakes up and demands to be fed!
Another one I love
'Its a phase'
Really?!? Shouldn't it have phased by now?????
I like 'don't worry-he won't be doing it when he's 16!'
And 'oh he won't want to be in that sling forever'.
Really. Is that seriously meant to be helpful? I can't see beyond nap battle at 11am let alone the next 15 years and 9 months.
Yeah the sleep when he/she sleeps. Ok, then when do I pee or shower or eat? DS did not like to be put down.
The 'he won't be doing that when he's 16' saves my sanity as I get up with him again in the night. I also plot revenge fantasies where when he's a teen I wake him up with an air horn at random intervals in the night.
"I have a huge sleep baby problem. my lo wakes twice in the night"
oh if only
"just pop them does awake but sleepy" err how?
"just stroke their head and shssh them" if only it was that easy!
"Have you tried pat and sssshhhh"
"Put them down when they're drowsy" er, thanks, I've never seen my baby drowsy though. That's the problem.
'You should buy some earplugs'. Jeff off.
Anything along the lines of "routines are so important for sleep". Though they would be angry tears because of the implication that it's somehow my fault, if only I had their superior parenting skills grrrr!
Yy, all implications that 'you need to get tough'
I would hand this baby to wolves if I thought it would help.
Yy to "will he not just play quietly?"
No - he's 2. And I don't want him to be awake at that time playing!
My mum - "just offer her a bottle of water every time she wants boob in the night".
"I'm shattered, pfb has been waking up at 6.30 recently"
"All babys should be sleeping through by 6 months"
"mine has done 6pm-7pm because I insisted on a routine"
I've had many years of this.....
My favourite is my SIL who looked completely confused and puzzled when we said we had a sleep consultant come and advise us for our 2.5 year old. She said "why is he waking up in the middle of the night. Why do you need a sleep consultant?"
How the fuck should I know why he is waking up? Hence we engaged the sleep consultant and he is still bloody waking up. It's the underlying message of "what are you doing wrong?" that pisses me off the most. If I knew why he was waking up, don't you think we would bloody fix it!
The other one I love is someone who said to me "We never allowed our children to come out of their beds at night". Oh I see. What did you do? Strap them into their beds? Subtle message of, we are much better parents than you - we are much more disciplined.
Oh yes nextphase - I have heard the "he sleeps well because we insisted on a routine".
I lived and died by a routine and it still got me no where. Why don't people realise it's the nature of the child not how great a parent you are, which dicates sleep. Drives me up the wall!
Mine is two!!!!
I was telling my mum some of the ridiculous comments yesterday.
"Have you tried a sticker chart?"
Yrs when she's screaming at 3am It's a good time to offer her a sticker.
"Just leave her to cry"
"You have to be tough" What does that even mean??
And my intimate favourite response
"Oh mine sleeps from 7-8"
I have several people buried under my patio for saying that
All advice re overtired or not tired enough these make chuckle and have cold sweats at same time x
"You should sort that now before she can climb out of her cot"
Ah ok then. I will.
"She should be sleeping in her room" (ad nauseum)
I'm also a routine queen and DD2 just does not sleep. DSS and DD1 are pretty good sleepers so I'm sure it's the child rather than anything we're doing wrong.
So when I get "oh you must instil a good routine" or a "and I assume you've tried everything" I feel like killing people.
'Leave her to cry'. Right oh, apart from having explained that its a method I'm fundamentally opposed to, what should I do when the screaming wakes the other DC's up? Leave them to cry too? Sounds like fun at 3am doesn't it? Sod off with your great advice you smug bastard!!
Surprised no one has mentioned 'you'll create a rod for your back' yet. That one makes me want to punch people - I can't believe people actually use this phrase! Again it's - oh yes good point, I'll change it now shall I? Thanks, ive been sitting here twiddling my thumbs until you says that. What shall I do - oh just put him down sleepy but awake you say? Ok then, thanks!
Quite simply "is LO sleeping through the night yet?" either by family members, friends, random people in the street - WTF??!
Its like this is the ultimate parenting test no one told you about. You can do everything possible for your child and if they don't sleep through - well; 'we have a shit mum here people! Her LO doesn't sttn.'
(Or it sounds a lot like that when you're sleep deprived and botox on them crows feet doesn't seem like such a bad idea after).
Haha, good one Pedro, that made me chuckle.
I have been asked if LO sleeps through yet since she was 7 weeks by would be FIL. Thank god she cries every time we go so I can mumble something about nap times and scuttle gratefully out the door.
Other one I love 'what happens if you just let her cry?'
The clue was in the question really wasn't it?
Everything said on the early waking threads where mothers with babies who sleep 10 solid hours a night are shattered because DC wakes up at 5:30 every morning. You don't know you're alive, girls...
Any suggestion that babies 'should' be sleeping through the night, by themselves, in their own rooms by a certain age, even though every one of those concepts have only started rolling around in the past century of the preceding 30,000 years of human evolution.
Any, even the slightest, suggestion that parenting has any bearing on whether your child sleeps. Can't decide which infuriates me the most - people who insinuate that your parenting is somehow at fault, or those smug twatty mctwats who think their blissfully sleeping child/ren is down to their Superior Parenting.
So everything nextphase said, basically
Elphaba, I think there are some things that people do which can encourage / discourage good sleep HOWEVER there are kids WHO JUST DON'T SLEEP and anything you do, except wait it out, ain't going to help. I think the parents who say CIO or CC works are the ones who have been doing things to discourage sleep, where as there are those of us who have tried everything (or everything baring crying), are doing everything they can to encourage sleep, its just the kids who don't want to sleep.
Sorry, rant over!
FWIW, DS2 was treated very similarly to DS1, and DS2 was sleeping through the night before his older brother....
Elphaba. Yes. Yes. YES.
Fuck off you smugging smug smuggers!
"Have you tried a groclock" I hate gro clocks, cost a fortune and ds1 used to wake up especially to see if it had changed colour. Ds1 always been an early riser, 4.00 at a bad spell. People have recommended gro fucking clocks for 5 years!
Oh hairy don't say that, I'm hoping that will eventually be the thing that helps us <cries>
last resort last resort obviously
Baby rocket2 was/is an awful sleeper (he is 7 and only just goes through from 9-6).We were CONSTANTLY told he was doing it for attention/it was our fault for cosleeping/leave him to cry. It was a nightmare at the time and I can only just look back and raise a smile..,
The phrase 'have you tried......' YES, have tried bloody everything!
Ha ha, enjoying this thread. I'm on my second non-sleeper. DD is now 3.8 and sleeping quite well, although bedtime remains tricky. People seem to think that, because we have poor sleeper no.2, it must be something to do with our
my parenting. They usually relate it to breastfeeding.
I HATE the smug parents, usually only online, fortunately, who say 'I never let mine...' Or 'I insisted on...'
'What about putting them in the pram?'
A pram? A pram? Why do you think I am? Some kind of monster?
Yes of course I've tried to get her to sleep in a pram. She IS a baby after all.
MIL 'He doesn't look tired'.
No, he never fucking looks tired. He never is tired. But he still has to go to sleep sometime!
My DM blames any bad behaviour on DS being tired. No sometimes he's just misbehaving/pushing his boundaries. Its become a bit of a joke because my nana used to say that about me, so DM is perfectly aware of the parody she has become, but she can't help herself..
KatieLily have you tried this?
It's your fault for breastfeeding her sleep when she was little....except how can I help it when she falls asleep on the boob.
Also the hv 'she probably doesn't need feeding overnight now '. Thanks. For that but it's the only that gets her back to sleep love.
A wry smile at these. Nearly nine months in with DC1 and it is a little bit comforting to know we're not alone with the incredible non-sleeping baby.
I HATE that people judge whether DD is "good" by whether she sleeps or not. What about all the other things about her?
For a while I had my hopes raised when people said she'd sleep better when she was on food or crawling. Nope, both those things have been and gone. I just laughed when someone said to me the other day that she'd sleep better when she was walking.
I also laughed rather hysterically at a lady in Mothercare when buying a high chair. I asked the difference between the cheaper and more expensive ones and she told me "it reclines for when your baby falls asleep during a meal." Won't be needing that then. That'll be for the same babies that fell asleep on their playmats and in their Jumperoos.
And no, I don't want to put baby rice in some milk for her or introduce a bottle of formula in the evening to help her sleep.
And another one here who has had so many people say "just leave her to cry, it'll be solved in a couple of nights." No, thank you.
Ah, I feel better for that. As I sit in my daughter's nursery waiting for her to be deeply enough asleep to sneak back into the cot in the hope of another hour s sleep...
"Why don't you just tell him to go to sleep?"
Genius. 4 hours is an indulgent night 3 years in, but why oh why did it never occur to me to say the words "go to sleep"?
Haha great thread.
Once DD fell asleep on her playmat. I was really worried, I thought she must be terribly ill. She never troubled me with that sort of behaviour again though.
I like the people who go "He is five weeks old and not sttn, I can't possibly carry on, five whole weeks, it has been torture!"
Or a similarly tiny little amount of time.
I'm bookmarking this thread. 'Why do t you let him cry it out?'because we break before DS does, mainly. Usually after about 4 hours of screaming
"Mine love sleeping - they take after me and DH!"
Yeah, DH and I bloody hate sleeping more than four hours a night. Must've passed that onto DD.
"[name] sleeps through because I was so relaxed during pregnancy."
The implication being that I must've spent my pregnancy in a pent-up ball of stressy rage.
Am probably going to risk your wrath here, as the mother to a great sleeper.
I 100% subscribe to the view that it's mainly the luck of the draw whether you get a good sleeper (or eater, imo), but do believe that certain parental intervention can make a bad situation better, with both eating and sleeping.
I cannot imagine having a non-sleeper for months or years on end, it'd probably just about kill my marriage. It must be really, really hard, especially when you work and/or have other children.
As such, I just cannot get my head around why things like a bottle of formula, or baby rice in milk, or whatever else people suggest as possible solutions (CC, CIO etc) are such no go's (this is assuming they work, of course).
If you are so crippled by broken nights, what is the harm in these things?
Is the conclusion that either the sleep issues are not so bad, or that formula or baby rice or CC or CIO are so bad that endless broken nights are worth it?
I guess I can't understand the logic of "this sleep issue is killing me" in the same breath as "oh but we don't want to try x, y or z", when x, y and z have no side effects that would seem to be as bad as the apparent side effects of continual broken sleep.
Please help put me right, maybe I'm missing a link in the chain of reasoning somewhere!
detox - because for many parents the things you suggest have been tried and don't work or carry huge potential long term risks that the parents think are unacceptable.
So bumping in to someone like you who suggests the same old, tired ideas really does wear very, very thin.
BTW baby rice in a bottle of milk is a choking hazard, I hope you don't go around suggesting it to people in RL.
Was going to type out a reasoned and detailed reply to the above but i am up with my non sleeper and i can't be bothered!
Instead i will add, "you would think he would sleep, he has not stopped all day" hmm thanks dad, he still says it sometimes, 2.4 years later! Often followed up with "well, he must sleep tonight".
Brilliant summary of everything this thread is about detoxlatte! If only you were joking with your 'parental interventions' making the situation worse...
Oh, detox. I'm sure you're well-intentioned, but you nearly just earned my first ODFOD. Oh, I think you just did.
DS eats solids all day like he has five or six hollow legs. What do you suggest baby rice or formula is going to do? And how am I supposed to get formula into a bottle refuser who will only take mouth-wetting sips from a sippy-cup at random intervals?
I have tried every intervention from No Cry Sleep Solution to (God help me for even mentioning it) CC which deteriorated into CIO. It didn't work. He screamed for two hours then slept for thirty or forty minutes on a continuous cycle for SIX NIGHTS. I wish I'd never done it to him, and I was devastated at having got so low as to go to it as an absolute last resort, only to not have it work in spectacular fashion. It is NOT the panacea to all sleep problems that you lot with your sleeping babies seem to think it is. As nextphase said some babies are just wired not to sleep.
If DS doesn't wake me up for the...eighth?...ninth?...time, I might now be able to get in over an hour of sleep before the alarm goes off at six and I have to struggle through another day of work. Ugh.
I've had "well both of mine slept through from 6 weeks", well she's not fucking yours is she!
Yeah, DS is nearly two so rice in a bottle ain't gonna cut it. I can't do cc or CIO (no judgement on those who do). DS was in scbu for 3 wks after he was born and the idea of him crying for me and me not going to him bring up memories if him being in the hospital and me not being able to be there 24/7 for him. I can't do it.
When I'm complaining my mom always tells me that no sleeping is a sign of intelligence. Then she tells me that I was a poor sleeper. I think she's secretly enjoying the karma.
I had a wonderful sleeper in dd. then DS1 came along and I stopped being smug when I realised it had nothing to do with me. He didn't sleep for years!
I feel for all those with non-sleeping kids. But why do people not realise that just like adults the amount of sleep children need is entirely individual?
Can I ask, do babies that hardly sleep when they are tiny grow up to be energetic Margaret Thatcher types who can survive on a couple of hours a night, or does the sleep thing suddenly normalise just when it's most inconvenient (ie as soon as they have to be up for school at 7.30 they start sleeping in till 8 sort of thing) ?
It's just that I have always wondered what bad sleepers are like when they are adults/teens.
Yeah I can't imagine having a magic bottle of rice and milk at bed time, after a whole day of eating like a horse, will make any difference.
tried it anyway so FTFO
I'm pretty lucky. After a month of 7pm-5.30pm DSs 6mth sleep regression is this with an hour awake between 3am and 4am. It's hard but could be a lot worse. He'll also go down awake (when it suits him).
However, he will not have naps in his cot. He will nap in our arms or in his buggy. Which is fine. But MIL cannot handle it, absolutely cannot tolerate this idea. Personally I like his warm snugly body and buggy naps mean I go out and about as I please.
Same conversation over and over with her saying I must not allow it, me asking why and her looking pained. But why why why?
Detoxlatte - I am absolutely, fundamentally opposed to CC/ CIO. Even if I wasn't, I have 2 older DC's who would wake up with the crying. The eldest, at 9yo would be ok probably but my 2.6 yo would then be screaming too and need resettling. It's just not an option.
And the long term effects of that level of stress on a baby are documented. It's simply not an option for me.
The one phrase that really used to piss me off was "he'll sleep well tonight!"
No he fucking won't. Because he never does after he's been exhausted during the day - he sleeps in the afternoon/early evening and consequently is AWAKE most of the fucking night. But thanks for your input.
'She doesn't want to miss anything does she? Oh love her, she's a clever girl'
She's clearly missed mummy face planting trying to stay awake and if she was that clever she'd have worked out bed time eh?
Mother of future nuclear physicist
balloon I can offer myself as an example. I was a b-a-d sleeper. I slept so little that my own personal opinion at the age of three or four was that I did not actually sleep at all. I can remember the first time I had the sensation of "waking up" and realising I had been asleep! Nowadays I like my sleep as much as the next person.
Detox, I am unsure what a bottle of formula and baby rice is going to do. Except maybe the rice could make the baby choke.
I will not do CC or CIO as I find it cruel and unhuman. If other people do it and it works then I am pleased for them. But it is not for me.
From a health visitor no less: 'gosh he's a little chatter box isn't he? Wants to stay up and chat all night! Don't worry if he doesn't sleep during the day. That way, he'll fill up on milk and sleep through the night.' FFS. Scarily, I actually briefly believed her in my sleepless brain fog.
"Oh I don't miss the baby days. It's so nice now we get to sleep through, and have lie-ins, isn't it?"
Well it would be, if I was. I did have 3 lovely years of it, between youngest child starting to sleep through, and him developing a medical condition that requires attention in the night. 7 years down, 10 or so to go ...
And by then I'll probably have turned into one of those old people who gets up at 4am for a nice cup of tea.
dribble the few times I saw our HVs I always
lied said that DD was sleeping very well, thank you.
I had such rubbish advice from them when she was born that I lost all faith in whatever they say, so I really don't want their input.
"Mine love sleeping - they take after me and DH!"
Youdon'twin this made me smile as I used to be a sleep monster and feel like killing people who say this.
Gosh detox you are missing something, that this is a light hearted thread. Thank you for the unsolicited advice.
MIL - 'Don't try and force it, she'll go to sleep when she is tired, DS just fell asleep on the playmat once!'
ha ha ha.
Well DD keeps going like the Duracell fucking bunny. Then the screaming starts. And keeps going and going and going. Like the Duracell bunny's evil twin.
My DS3 is 6 months and we've had a few
months weeks of nightmare 'sleeping' so far the helpful advice I've had is..
"You just need to bite the bullet and make him sleep, get tough"
See why didn't I realise it was this simple all along?! I have to make him! Duh..
SettlersofKezan that made me laugh.A friend of mine once said about my non-sleeping DS "he's still at the age where he'll fall asleep in his dinner isn't he?"
Not in this universe no....
oh, and I've rememberer another one...
a friend once said when my DS was 18 months and still waking every 2 hours "why don't you take a week off work and sort it out?"
To this day I have no idea what she meant...
Any of the 'oh we had a bad night....' brigade when they go on to describe a night I would walk over hot coals for.
The older DD gets the more of this kind i have
Or almost as bad
"It's the uncertainty I hate, most nights she sleeps through fine but then every once in a while we have a bad one and she wakes up"
Yes, uncertainty is a killer isn't it? I much prefer my certain knowledge that she will wake up at least once, sometimes four or five times. Far worse to get a few through the nights thrown in than have the security of her waking up. Every. Single. Night. For 12 months.
I got 2 hours sleep last night with 10 month old DD. My sister moaned she only got 7 hours as her 7 week old DS woke up once.
Oh I feel that sleeping through pain. Just net my antenatal group and 2 of then said 'oh this weather! Is yours now waking up again?'
Sorry? You seem to think she wasn't already?
I have 3 DCs, none of my kids have slept until they were at least 3 years old. We seem to have the same sleep patterns from birth to pre-school sleeping no more than 2 hours at a stretch. Ever.
I remember the 'milestone' comments the best...
He'll sleep when he's on solids - nope
She'll sleep when she's crawling - nope
She'll sleep when she starts walking - nope
He'll sleep when he starts nursery - nope
By DC3 I'd got to the fixing the person with a steely/zombie stare and saying my kids just don't sleep
I could have hugged a lovely health visitor who said that 'clever babies don't sleep, you don't want one that sits like a pudding and then sleeps all night'
My oldest is now almost 7 he still wakes up a bit during the night and is up at 5am. But at least he just reads Narnia books and doesn't get out of bed <stealth boast, hv was right > his sisters on the other hand.
Oooh remembered another gem. Sleep when your baby sleeps. For DS that would have been when travelling above 45 mph in the car, not too safe
Oh, yes, another gem
"But your so used to being up all night, its soo much worse having to get up when you've been used to them sleeping through" why wouldn't I want some nights where I get 5 straight? That would make me more tired????
And the three weeks solid my dh said daily 'I'm really tired.' Ok he was insanely busy at work, but he sleeps through the baby waking, which at that point was hourly.....
Nicknamefail - I went through the same thing with my DH. Straying about off subject, I also found that I started to feel a bit stabby in the early days when I was sitting up with DD and he'd roll over and sigh happily, clearly having amazing sleep. I'm still envious of his ability to go straight back to sleep after settling her. I did take a bit of pleasure from the fact that the one and only time she slept for six hours straight, he was away for the night and said he didn't sleep very well!
Back on topic, my in-laws (who I get on very well with) are currently texting me each day asking how she slept. I do feel a bit like pointing out to them that it doesn't really make me feel better about her lack of sleep to recount each morning how many times we were up!
Definitely agree with everyone who mentions people who say they had a bad night when their LO woke up once!
Can also add people who "helpfully" suggest we try her with a dummy. Yes, we tried that in the early days (along with most things!). She pursed her lips and spat it out. But thank you anyway.
I love this thread. It's cheered me up after a bad night (even by our standards) last night.
I had an O.o moment recently when a mum in our antenatal group remarked on another mum and I's weight. Hers sleeps beautifully in a rigid routine. We both have babies with reflux and have had to cut tons out of our diets and walk hours and hours everyday to get them to sleep.
'Oh but at least you're thin?'
Really?!?!? Holy smokes it was all I could do not to poke her in the eye
Katielily I had a similar as if I am not walking dd outside, I put her in a sling and walk up and down the stairs (third floor flat). Two people have given me the thin comment. Maybe should market having a non sleeper as a new diet plan?
We could make millions and employ a baby sleep walker so we could do other things while the baby is sleeping like putting the washing on
or maybe something more interesting
We should rent put babies as exercise machines
When DS was younger and waking loads, I told DH if he told me how tired he was I would punch him. He kept his comments to himself after that.
DS now at nearly is down to normally just waking once a night, so it can get better. I just sustain myself with thoughts of revenge when he's older. I plan on randomly walking him with a bullhorn several times a night when he's a teen.
Been playing bingo with this thread!
I love it when someone helpfully suggests that it is something I could do better ie routine....as if I've not tried anything or researched anything. It really got to me that I was doing something wrong until I saw another baby, in their home, go down for a nap. I then realised that some babies sleep, some don't!
Another favourite, is that DS is clearly very bright (identified at his great age of 7 months). When I visited a HV in tears about DS sleeping she told me this, and not to worry as he'll earn me lots of money when he is older...
'Put him in the cot to play and he'll fall asleep' is another common one...no, he won't. He'll rampage around the cot for a bit, get bored and then yell. My DM should know better as both DSis and I were poor sleepers but I think she forgets as she suggested this one when DS was poorly and would only sleep being held and the only in 10 minute bursts. It doesn't work at the best of times, and she didn't quite understand why I found it a hilarious suggestion!
I've really enjoyed this thread...and been reading bits out to my DP, who can also identify with much of it!
Personally I have tried to take solace in the, "You're so thin" (from trudging around in the rain for hours with refluxy baby who won't sleep and being so nauseated from exhaustion you can't eat) type comments, and use them as quick fire responses. E.g.
Smug-mummy-of-sleeping-baby: "Goodness, do you still have to push them around in a pushchair for 2 hours so they'll have a nap. Mine's been doing 3 hours in the cot from day 2 blah, blah, blah"
Me: Yes, but never mind. At least it keeps me thin" [pointed look at smug-mummy's midriff]
Also, like to throw back equivalent comments about their child's development. E.g.
Smug-mummy-of-sleeping-baby: Goodness, is she STILL not sleeping yet?!
Me: Goodness, is yours not rolling / sitting / crawling etc yet?! (mine has spent so many extra hours awake she is a good couple of months ahead of her peers [wry smile]
Not really being the bigger person...but some small victories...
Or comments on the impact rankle me too. E.g 'oh your poor partner, he must really miss a cuddle'
If by cuddle you mean sex you are really on a whole other planet to me right now
Ooh I thought of another gem...
'Just try and relax more, he's probably picking up on your stress'
I wish it was having the same weight-loss effect on me. Unfortunately a steady stream of cake and biscuits is about the only thing keeping me going these days
I hate the 'making a rod for your own back' phrase. Someone at work told me I was making a rod for my own back when dd was 4 weeks old because I picked her up every time she cried Unfortunately dd is my pfb and I believed her, so kept doubting myself when picking dd up and feeling guilty that I was spoiling her. This was the same woman who documented doing cc with her 4 month old on Facebook sometime later so everyone could see how hard it was for her (twat)
I have had good and bad phases sleep wise with dd and have been given all sorts of advice but am finally confident enough to do what I feel is right!
I have a mostly reformed multiple waking ds who is now an early waking ds, and pps are right, it is much better to get a good chunk of sleep and have the odd good night mixed in with one or two wakings, than certainty of many wakings
even though I still felt like crying when he got up at 4.53 this morning.
Thing that got me most at about 6mo onwards was meeting newer mums with babies under four months sleeping through, asking things like 'how do you get them to nap past 45mins' and expecting me to know. (My answer: i keep walking and keep my fingers crossed) if I told the truth about ds I got pitying looks. I learnt to evade questions on sleep and secretly hoped they all got stung in a regression.
Worst thing is I still get feelings of guilt and frustration with myself when ds goes through a bad patch, even though I know it's not parenting. Our cultural belief that parents can and should dictate a baby's sleep is hard to shift.
Oh and hate 'best to do cc before they are too old' comments, eg before they are old enough to realise or before they can crawl or whatever. I don't disagree with cc but think it should be a last resort or at least only used for actual poor sleepers not something you do as a default because you think the baby should be in bed by a certain time.
Oh god yes. I admitted to a mum I was going to bed at 7 (the only time she consistently slept for a while) and she laughed and said 'blimey the Simpsons aren't even off the telly then are they?'
Her baby was ugly
I hate feeling like I am doing something wrong. My sons were FF. DS1 slept through from 6 weeks and he's now 6 and he still sleeps like a log. Usually 7pm-7am.
I did the exact same with DS2 who would wake millions of times, starting sleeping from 10pm-5am from 14 months but would not go to sleep earlier than 10 and was always awake before 5:30am. He is 4 now and is still quite often awake when we go to bed about 10. He's also always awake before 6:30. I am planning lots of revenge if he ever turns into a lazy teenager.
DD is 10 months and BF and I have lost count of the times I have been told she doesn't sleep because I BF, even the bloody HV told me that.
She only woke 3 times last night so maybe we are on the edge of a breakthrough!
"don't let her nap in the day, then she'll sleep all through the night" - hmm, even if that did work (which it didn't), I'd end up with devil child all day - no thanks!
As dd rolls over and over again on the floor 'aaaah she's wearing herself out, she'll sleep well tonight. '
this thread is brilliant! My DD would never sleep anywhere but on me. She first slept through at 13 months - just once then not again for about another 4 or 5 months. I had to go to bed with her at 7pm every single night and she would wake every couple of hours.
I am now pg with number 2 and starting to worry about the sleep deprivation, cue my Dad, 'I think you actually enjoyed her just sleeping on you'. He is lucky to still be alive.
and... 'just put them down in the cot and if they are doing a 'tired cry' they'll go off to sleep in a bit, hmmmm, DD doesn't seem to have learnt the 'tired cry' just the 'I'm actually being murdered right now cry'.
BumpKitty - if its any consolation, DS2 was a much better sleeper than DS1. I know this isn't always the case.
He wasn't, by any means a brill sleeper, but "he sleeps better than his big brother" was enough to stop most subsequent questions.
As we're wittering on about it
assuming you're all as obsessed as I am about reading up on sleep, I thought I would like to this article from Psychology Today about normal infant sleep. I know there's plenty of info on it out there, but this 5 parter IMO puts things really well and made me feel a lot better about feeding to sleep and frequent wake ups. Also gives us something to say back to those who trot out those annoying lines about what they may or may not think we are doing 'wrong' with our babies sleep issues!
Eurgh 5am start today, I have work at 11 too. Still, I'm sure he'll sleep well tonight!
That article is interesting freelance thanks.
Fantastic article freelance!
I'm sure he'll sleep well tonight Gritted
That article has made me feel so much better Elphaba. I thought I'd read everything but obviously not. I'm lying here with DS curled up to me having his nap
creating A Rod as we speak and just enjoying it - hey it's cosy, he'll sleep longer with me here, I've got MN on the phone to entertain me and it's hardly like he'll want to do this when he's 12 so I might as well enjoy it!
It's basically an evidence based summary of everything that's on the ISIS website. I'd like to forward it to every HV in the UK and especially the cockwomble who wrote that guff in the 0-5 Book that 'by 6 months babies should be sleeping through the night'.
I'm also tempted to post it on a friend's FB page who shut the door on her 9 month old who was crying because she wanted to come into her bed. And pushed formula and baby rice into her at four months to make her sleep.
Loved, loved, loved this!
Read it while buried under my rod creator ;)
On a Sunday I work with a really lovely girl who I get on very well with, but today I nearly had to kill her.
After explaining how tired I was she said 'I just wouldn't let him get up, I'd just tell him to go back to sleep and walk out..' I just said 'oh GOD why didn't I think of that! Fuck me just telling him to go back to sleep THAT'S BRAND NEW ADVICE!!'
We both laughed but then after I just said, 'in all seriousness have you ever met a toddler..?'
She is only 17 though so I think can forgive her.
This is the best thread in ages. I've heard pretty much all of these.
One of my favourites, DH, who has been not just in the same house, but in bed next to me all night, sometimes wakes up in the morning and asks "How was your night, did babyclips sleep ok?" He honestly didn't know. He's lucky not to be under the patio for that.
Absolutely brilliant thread - tears of laughter!
Love the one from SettlersofKezan about the reclining highchair: "won't be needing that then" were my exact words too!
Ditto about falling asleep on the playmat or jumperoo. I would call an ambulance if dd did that!
"Have you tried just putting her in her cot to see if she'll fall asleep herself?"
No, no I haven't tried that one, I just prefer trying to wear my carpet out by pushing the pram back and forth or having my nipple sucked till its numb
you complete bell end
First ever swimming class last night
Swim teacher: 'bring their pyjamas and pop then straight to bed. An early evening all for you!'
Sure. Sure. 2 hours later LO finally came down off the ceiling from the excitement of swim class. Yup
Paperclips - my DH does that too. Nice to know he notices my absence when I spend hours in DD's room during the night. I've taken to feeding her and then getting him to come and put her down as he is much more effective than me. I often get up, tell him I'm going to feed her and then call him over the monitor when she's asleep. He often responds with a "oh, I didn't know you'd got up!"
Katielily - same here about swimming. Not happened yet.
These posts are so funny (and true!)
I wish mums net had a 'like' button for each post - I'd 'like' them all!
'You were just like that' F--K off mum thats not helping!
Anything about babies being 'good' because they sleep well.
Anything along the lines of 'she loves her bed!' or 'she's a sleeper!' complete with smug twinkle.
Especially when said by parents of babies under 4 months or so whose babies have lulled them into a false sense of security, and who think that is sleep sorted. Really have to resist saying JUST YOU WAIT.
Oh oh, and my granny saying 'just give him a little pat and tell him to go back to sleep' (3mo at time)
On the other hand, people can't win when you're sleep deprived. So if a friend expresses horror at the horrible night I've just recounted, I feel all defensive...
Basically I only want to talk to people whose babies sleep as badly (or preferably worse) than mine.
Ps I have a good response to the 'how is he sleeping?' question:
'Terribly! But he's sooo gorgeous, what does it matter?'
A bit of preemptive smugness tends to kill the 'advice' to follow...
Detox my son is now 2.7 yrs and is only now starting to ore consistently sleep through the night (though its always touch and go TBH). We read every sleep book, felt we encouraged good habits through solid routine blah, blah.....he just sometimes does NOT sleep.
Between 1st b-day and 2nd there were weeks in which he would wake up every night for hours. Not being bad, just awake and not wanting to be alone (which is understandable in some respects). what can you do? He cant sleep (shrug). We would sit with him for hours and he would just toss and turn and not fall asleep. We were not willing to just leave him to cry because we fundamentally believed that he was not capable of understanding and were not willing to abandon him to be hysterical. Besides...I'm not sure this insomnia-like sleep thing is within his control. I've never once regretted our approach and just nod and grunt when I'm given that whole "rod for your own back" line ad nauseum.
when I tried to explain the issue to our pediatrician she was totally unsympathetic and exclaimed "he's 2 just be happy he sleeps at all"
I can't count the number of times I've been told to drop his nap (starting around 7 months onward!)......queue you poking your overtired child as they are passing out from exhaustion by 2:00 whilst advising them...."excuse me child I have it on the greatest authority that you do NOT need a nap"
"Are you still here?" - towards end of pg I'm asked this a million times, mostly during the school runs by mums I vaguely know.
errrm? yes I'm here, we are talking face to face. oh you mean that I'm still pg? What gave that away you genius?
Oh and I'm sorry you are disappointed I'm STILL pg - but I've got 6 weeks to go!
also "I didn't know you were pg!" (so what?)
"are you having any more?" and basically any pg related questions.
and through 6 pgs "are you hoping for a girl?" I got so fed up that eventually I'd say "well, we did have a girl but she died...." (true, had MC after DS4)
had 5 boys then baby girl - so now it's "oh you FINALLY have the girl you so wanted, you must be so pleased" huh? why don't you fuck off to the far side of fuck?
oops, sorry mine were not about sleep, I didn't read OP, rookie mistake! well, I might as well carry on.....
I have tons more.
from "DS1 is such a fussy eater" (no MIL, he's 2 and hates your food covered in oil!)
through "why has he got no teeth yet at 14 months?" (because I'm a bad parent)
to "is 3 year old DS2 going to stay blonde?" (huh?)
I'm in danger of damaging my eye muscles due to excessive eye rolling.
Have we had "Maybe she just doesn't want to sleep"?
This is my DM's favourite (usually said as I am heading out with the pram yet again to try to get DD to nap). Yes DM, you are right, she doesn't want to sleep. EVER. but she NEEDS to sleep or she will be a screamy mess by the evening and wake up all night.
Ds1 was an absolutely horrific sleeper (he is nearly 12) and could now sleep through a bomb going off. He didn't sleep through until he was practically 4 yrs - I remember it well as I woke up with a start at 5am and ran to his room to check he was ok such was the shock to my system.
My favourite comment was "we had a routine as sleep is so important to us". What human doesn't find sleep important?
We went to see my grandparents today and DD was overtired (due to motorbikes, lawnmower and people who dare to enjoy the sunshine during daylight hours disturbing her naps ) so my grandad helpfully suggested I just pop her on the chair with a cushion, so she could go to sleep. Bless him.
YY to maybe she doesn't want to sleep, and the linked ones, she doesn't look tired and the bullseye - she would fall asleep if she was tired! ha fucking ha! The crazy thin is initially I believed it (pfb and no family support)and there were times when DD was 2 months old and she slept in no longer than 2 30 min blocks between 5.45 am and 9.30pm
Oh and the other classic, oh well, it's good that she doesn't sleep in the day, if she slept too much in the day she won't sleep at night, umm yes, and if she's mega overtired ...
Oh and just remembered another classic from hv - look for the tired signs, then it will be easy
Agree with most of these.
My top ones are
Smug SIL how her under 10 week old self settles and sleeps through. I am evilly waiting for it to unravel. It's ger 3rd so she ought to know better.
DH waking briefly during a inconsolable crying session commenting how it was ridiculous DS was so upset then going back sleep. I still fume about it, how was it a helpful comment.
Anyone who says if I didn't BLW he would sleep better yes the magic of puree of course..
when DS was weeks old my mum said children are either good sleepers or they aren't and sooner you accept it is no reflection on you the better -I love her so much
Hi - quite new to this but I love these. I have a 3YO DD1 - great sleeper and 10MO DD2 - very very bad (born Friday 13th - what did I expect!).
I always get - 'but she is soooo cute - how can she be such a bad sleeper - I don't believe you' etc.
Because as we know cuteness is directly related to being a good sleeper.
shop I agree with your mum on that to a certain degree.
also the owls/larks thing
what I hate is when I moan about a bad sleeper and I get " but intelligent children need less sleep!"
sure, sure, I guess I'm a fecking genius then, existing on 4-6 hours of sleep at times.
spare me! [begging emoticon]
We went to a wedding this weekend and there were many other children, toddlers and babies.
I walked circuits round the chapel willing LO to sleep before the service as various people came up, tried to peer into the sling and said 'oh are you trying to get her to sleep/ is she sleepy?'
No. Not at all. I just really felt like being a distraction during our friends service so thought pacing would be excellent.
Then I watched as a 3 mo is wheeled in lying in a pram, asleep and remains so for the whole service
Then later I'm strapping her back into the sling to head home early and another mum says 'oh it's awful when they miss a nap isn't it? Will she sleep now though?' No, so I'm leaving to go home with her. 'Oh you won't get dinner or hear the speeches' no but then neither will anyone else if I stay.
Next day brunch I watch the same 3 mo fuss slightly then be popped drowsy into the pram once more then someone says 'wont yours do that then?'
It's been a fun weekend
Oh Katielily, that sounds super fun.
My almost 6mo has been a tricky sleeper but not horrendous, so I decided to change all that by bringing her to Australia for a holiday. She's regressed, especially with naps, so I've had to start holding her for naps again. I've had ALL the 'but she's so lovely! But she doesn't look tired! She'll sleep well tonight! How dare your mother say anything bad about you? What happens if you just leave her to cry?' bullshit, but I quite enjoyed this morning's comment from friend of MIL. I was explaining that she falls asleep ok on me but wakes as soon as I put her in the cot.
'Oh, so you just pat her back to sleep then?'
No, that's impossible because by that point her legs are going like she's competing in the Tour De France and we are back to square one.
DS isn't too bad (at present) once he's asleep but doesn't get to sleep until late in the evening and doesn't nap regularly during the day.
When discussing how to get him to sleep earlier I've been told to make sure he has no more than 4 hours of naps during the day - definitely not a problem managing that one. Also apparently it's easy to have an early bedtime if you just make sure they have no naps after 5pm - doesn't seem to make any difference here even if he's very tired and grumpy already having not slept since mid-morning.
De-lurking to add "oh you get more sleep AFTER they're born" (friend who'd had her baby before the rest of us - needless to say he was a perfect sleeper from day one).
And my personal favourite (still makes me three years on) - "oh I couldn't put up with that, I NEED my sleep".
I'm on my second non-sleeper. I swore it would be different this time, and it is - if anything, DS2 is worse than DS1. Have just downed my second dtr
Argh! Sleep deprivation! Meant to say second strong coffee after another terrible night. You know it's bad when every night is a write-off ...
At our wits end, dh bought Gina ford book, turned to a page in the middle "by 4 months you will know why your baby is crying". This made me cry! Took me a year to work out what ds wanted! Spoke to a mum about my new baby and made a joke about not knowing what she wants and the mum looked at me and said "oh we knew what ds wanted when he cried, he had different cries". My ds had loud and louder.
A bit off track but when you're heavily pregnant and you don't sleep well and everybody has to comment that its preparing you for night wakings or it'll be worse after your baby is born! Doh, yes I thought it would all be bliss and I could go back to my full night's sleep on my tummy!
Oh god yea, just about everything in Gina Ford is a phrase that makes me weep. Especially "baby will now sleep for 45 minutes".
Needless to say, baby has not read Gina Ford.
I remember that too milk. Now I come to think about it I'm sure its the same people who now seem so surprised that she isn't sleeping...
The other day I bumped into someone I know who has a dd the same age as mine and we got onto the inevitable sleep talk where I mentioned dd being a terrible sleeper and she went, 'oh gosh yes, my dd is also sleeping terribly at the moment'. So we had a good moan and I thought how nice it is to speak to someone in the same boat until she said 'yes, if dd would just get past this phase of waking up at 5am and go back to sleeping till 7 again. Its awful!'. I confess, I laughed in her face...possibly slightly hysterically.
Love this thread. Anything my sister says at the moment makes me sob - she has two fantastic sleepers - her recent gem was, 'yes they slept through the night at 9 weeks but I had to really work at it'. As if I couldn't really be arsed to try and get my dd to sleep...
Oh and her other one - whenever we are staying at my parents she - without fail - will always tell me that she has to wake her children up in the morning. Normally just after I have mentioned that I've been up since 5 and up 3 times in the night.
Oh - and anyone who says that your baby 'should' be sleeping through by now. How oh how is that helpful!
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