no cry sleep support thread anyone?

(73 Posts)
sparklekitty Wed 03-Apr-13 15:22:18

Ok so my DD is 6mo, ebf and co-sleeps atm. She wakes every 2 hours if I'm lucky and I'm shattered!

After reading lots of posts recommending NCSS I finally read it and have plan for getting our little pickle into her own room and sleeping 12 hours longer than she does now.

I've ordered a camping mattress for her room so I can sleep in there to start and waiting for a lovely light show thingy to arrive. Once Mr Royal Mail has delivered these magic items I'm ready to go.

However, as my DD wont do more than 10 mins in her cot atm I am more than aware that things will probably get much harder before they get better.

Anyone fancy a support thread to keep up spirits and share good and not so good experiences?

DrMcDreamysWife Wed 03-Apr-13 18:38:14

Ooo yes please!

My dd is 7mo (tomorrow) and ebf. She spends half night in cot and half with me in the bed next to her ( while my dh sleeps next door in our infinitely more comfortable bed). She wakes A LOT. And all a bit random. She will occasionally do a 4 hour stretch but more often it's 1-2 hours. I don't always need to feed her, she will go back to sleep after a cuddle sometimes...

Anyway can't stand the thought of letting her cry. I have bought the book and I really would like her to go longer and let me sleep next door with my husband!

sparklekitty Wed 03-Apr-13 19:19:44

oh dreamy, that sounds like what I'll be doing soon. Not looking forward to it but hoping it helps/works. I cannot do CC with her.

Your dd sounds very similar to mine. Sometimes she'll wake up crying and I'll move her to feed then she'll drift off again, almost like she just wanted a change of position.

Its great that your dd is in the cot half the night. My dd won't go more than a coupld of hours in her bedside crib sad

Atm I'd kill for a 4 hour stretch! A few weeks ago she did 2 weeks of waking at 1am, 4am then 7am. Proper routined, I thought we'd cracked it but then the dreaded cold hit and we're back to square one, boo!

I keep thinking long term, in a few months I'll be in bed with my husband on our own sleeping for more that 2 hours at a go smile

DrMcDreamysWife Wed 03-Apr-13 20:05:19

It's been some doing getting her in the cot at all. I'm currently sat next to cot with the lullaby sheep blaring and my hand on her back praying she's asleep. Lets just hope it lasts!! Would not be surprised if she woke in exactly 40 minutes looking for more bloody boob!!

Yep long term goals I think. A friend from my antenatal group did controlled crying with her ds born day before my dd. within a week of cc he is sleeping through the night. 8 till 7. To be fair I have never heard him cry. Even at his most hungry as a newborn it was a little grumble where as my dd hits 0-60 in a heartbeat. I can't leave her sad

Selenium Thu 04-Apr-13 08:41:25

I'd like to join you too, if you don't mind! My ds is a little younger than yours at 4 months but I'd like to start gradually getting him used to his cot as he has been cosleeping with me since birth and now seems to need me beside him to get back to sleep. The cot is right next to the bed with one side off but he still doesn't like it! I'm a bit worried that the night feeds are becoming more frequent and he is just having small feeds to get himself back to sleep. I do love cosleeping but my poor dh has been relegated to the spare room and we'd like to get ds eventually into his own room and my dh back in ours!

I've read the NCSS but not really sure which ideas to start with - apart from the one about not feeding completely to sleep. Are you just selecting a few ideas that appeal and trying those? Hope we can find something that works!

DrMcDreamysWife Thu 04-Apr-13 09:47:49

Hi selenium, welcome!

I've been trying the 'pantley pull off' trying to get dd not to fall asleep on boob. I think it's working some of the time. Half the problem is I fall asleep with her still latched on for the middle of the night feeds!!?

I've also been trying to use a 'lovey' a certain cuddly toy we only use at sleep time. And I've been doing playtimes in the cot during the day to show her it's a nice fun place. All things I got from the book. She is definitely warming to the cot. She doesn't wake the second I put her in it anymore...just after an hour!!!

Can't tell you how many times she woke last night....too many to count!!

Selenium Thu 04-Apr-13 11:07:41

Hello DrMcDreamysWife (love the name, by the way!) Ooh yes, the 'Pantley pull off' was going to be the main one I'm going to try. You're right though - it's easier to do this for the bedtime feed and then difficult to do for night feeds. I always fall asleep too as I feed lying down and sometimes lose count of how many night feeds I've actually done as it's all a blur. Ds used to sleep for 7-8 hours at the start of the night but it's all gone horribly wrong for about the last 6-8 weeks (first awakening is now at 10-11pm after bedtime at about 8pm!) Maybe this is the 4 month growth spurt/sleep regression so I want to be gentle with him in case he really needs those night feeds - I suspect not though as he doesn't actually drink that much for most of the feeds!

Glad your dd likes her cot better now! We've been given a little blankie thing so perhaps I'll start introducing that too in case ds adopts it! I've also changed his sheets for softer flannel ones, tried to make sure he takes his daytime naps in several different places (pushchair, car, cot, etc) and repeating the same mini bedtime routine, all suggestions from the book Not sure any of that is working though! Trouble is, I read the book a few weeks ago and all made sense at the time, but now I think I need to reread it as forgotten a lot of it in my sleep deprived state!

My dd found her thumb quite early on so used that to settle herself to sleep, which was much easier!

Fluttershy Thu 04-Apr-13 11:59:25

Count me in... Just got that book!

sparklekitty Thu 04-Apr-13 14:38:50

I was planning on using the PPO, although I do this a bit already anyway. My DD already has a lovey, a bunny comforter from Jojo. I plan on doing all the phases once shes a bit more settled in her cot.

I did my sleep log last night. I'll post some of the details:

Bed 9pm, took 1 hour to get to sleep, dropped off 9.53

Woke 22.45
Fed, slept 22.48
Total 45 mins

Woke 1.45
Fed, slept 1.55
Total 3 hours smile

Woke 3.15
Fed, slept 3.18
Total 1.15 hours

Woke 5.20
Fed, slept 5.27
Total 2 hours

Woke 6.30
Cuddled, slept 6.35
Total 1 hour

Woke 7.20
Fed, slept 7.25
Total 45 mins

Woke 8.10. Gave up and got up.

I'm tired! I already know its the feeding to sleep I need to tackle so not logging tonight as its too depressing!

Nicknamefail Thu 04-Apr-13 15:46:08

Sparklekitty, are you me posting, and I have just forgotten because I am so tired? I think you have a copy of my baby anyway.

I was going to start, but dd has been grizzly today and I think her first tooth is coming, so maybe not the time to start a change. Last night dd woke up every 45 mins until 1am, but then managed 3 hours. In my bed again though.

Are people doing a move out of the bed and trying not to feed to sleep at the same time, or crack one problem first?

Good luck all.

sparklekitty Thu 04-Apr-13 17:40:03

Nickname - this was all in my bed, she co-sleeps not for long tho

She is still recovering from the tail end of a cold and I'm still waiting for the camping mattress to arrive. I'm thinking the beginning of next week, that way I can have some catch up sleep over the wknd.

I'm dreading it as I know it'll be worse before it gets better. Boo

Hello all - I've popped over from the Misery Loves Company thread which has been rolling for a while. Our babies are a touch older (mine's one of the youngest at 10 months) but if you want any more sympathetic ears, we're there. We've all tried everything, in my case even - in utter desperation - CC. To my devastation and horror it didn't work and I'll be fecked if I'm trying it again. We've adopted the motto that, when it comes to sleeplessness, you've just got to ride the mo fo out!

I've gone through NCSS pretty closely and I've had a modicum of success with it, in that DS will now do the fabled going down 'sleepy but awake' in his cot, thanks to a combination of PP and the very gradual retreat. He's also enamoured of his lovey which he cuddles closely all night and is happy a lot of the time in his cot after letting him lie there or sit there with some quiet toys during the day. Sadly, it has done sweet diddly squat for his wake-ups - he will wake up 40 minutes after first going to sleep, then every two hours (at least - gets to about hourly wake ups from 3am, then every 20 mins or so from 5am) thereafter. He's followed this pattern since he was about three months so I'm a bit tired. He won't settle for his dad, so I have to do all the wake-ups. And I work full-time. No, really, I do.

I'll always get him to start the night in his cot, then I'll usually co-sleep from around midnight just to try and maximise my own sleep. I have had a few nights, though, where he's gone happily back into his own cot after every wake up, and I've actually woken up next to DH shock

What he will do now, though, which is a definite improvement since NCSS is on the very, very frequent occasions when has a cold with a persistent cough is he won't wake himself up fully with coughing. He will go back to sleep which in itself is an absolute bloody godsend - I had a few months there where I'd just get him off to sleep, then ten minutes later he'd start coughing I'd want to hurl myself out of the window and I'd have to start the laborious process again of getting him back to sleep.

So I shall lurk with interest to see how everyone here goes in case you come up with any cunning variations or tricks which I can try myself!

PS OP, looking at your timetable - have you tried an earlier bedtime? That was something that made a significant difference to my DS around 4-5 months. He went to sleep much more quickly when I started his bedtime routine at 6:30, probably because he wasn't overtired. Nine times out of ten, he's now asleep in his cot by 7pm. Before this, I was starting his routine at 7:30, and I couldn't get him into his cot until 9pm at the very earliest because he was taking so long to settle.

Nicknamefail Thu 04-Apr-13 22:06:32

Tonight I set the target of dd staying in cot until midnight. She managed 7 until 8, then nothing, not post breastfeed, not even when I half climbed in the cot with her.

So, at 9.30, I abandoned the attempt, and cuddled her to sleep on my bed. She is obviously going to be there all night. Dp a little disheartened by this. I am not feeling too bad, as I thought this would happen.

On a brighter note, I did whip my nipple out before she was quite asleep at bedtime though. Progress?

Goodkingwalkingslass Thu 04-Apr-13 22:21:46

Right I'm going to join you lovely lot. Ds is 8.5 months, co-sleeps and does not, repeat does not, fall asleep without a nipple in his mouth unless in car, pushchair or sling. OH starting to make noises about getting him into a cot. I've no idea how to achieve this. Ds just started crawling so I'm getting worried about him falling out of bed in the time between when he goes to bed and when we join him. It's all very tricky! Not sure if I should admit I actually do love sleeping with him! Especially the wake up smiles!

Nicknamefail Thu 04-Apr-13 22:25:49

Hello goodking. I couldn't believe dd fell asleep without a nipple lending a hand today. Although she was 99% asleep when I stealthed it out, so not amazing. I will try again tomorrow. I am not even going to try with naps yet, as I am convinced dd sleeps marginally better if she has napped better, and she won't she won't nap well if I have to fight her, no cry sleep solution or not!

DrMcDreamysWife Fri 05-Apr-13 09:35:59

Morning all!!

elphaba we' e crossed paths before in the sleep section, so sorry things haven't improved much for you and you are amazing to now work full time as well. I'm back to work at 11months so please sleep gods let her be better then!

HV came yesterday and suggested cc. I said nope not desperate enough yet, what else you got?! She said to do bedtime an hour earlier to aim to get her down before 7 rather than 8.

So we tried this....

7.20 in cot asleep
8.30 awake, cuddled, lullaby on back in cot
8.40

Then woke at 10, 10.30, 1.15, 3.30, 5.30, 6,30 and 8.30

I fed her everytime from 10.30 onwards...booo,
I gave her to my dh at 6.30 as I desperately needed a bit of sleep.
She was in her cot until the 1.15 feed after which I fell asleep with her in my bed ;(

I cried on dh at 6.30 as I was so tired and disappointed at how crap she is...

sparklekitty Fri 05-Apr-13 14:00:56

Well last night was a bit of a better one.

I started with an earlier bedtime and a slightly different routine. She fell asleep feeding on my lap in her room (rather than laying down in our bed). She woke after the dreaded 45mins and I fed her just in case she was hungry then she woke about half an hour later. At this point I'd decided that I wasn't going to feed her for 3 hours (I know she can go that long at night as she did for 3 weeks) so cuddled and stroked her head shing and saying 'it's ok'. She grizzled and cried, horrid mummy for about 2 mins then fell asleep for 3 hours!

I noticed that she woke and settled herself by stroking either me or her bunny quite a few times. I did make a point of feeding her when she'd hit that 3 hour point. So a better night but more than likely a one off.

The dreaded mattress arrived today. I'm giving myself the wknd and will start on mon with the 'in her room' thing.

I've decided that I'm going to try a few nights of putting her in the cot when shes asleep first before trying the sleepy but awake thing.

I'm really hoping it works. I guess if it doesn't I'll have to suck it up ad accept shitty sleep till goodness knows when.

McDreamy - I know how you feel, poor DH had me in floods before work yesterday, think he's starting to worry about me, bless him.

ElphabaTheGreen - interesting what you said about CC as I've been led to believe its the miracle cure for non sleepers (my mum had to do it with me, all be it at 2) I feel I maybe getting my karma for being a terrible sleeper as a baby sad

sparklekitty Fri 05-Apr-13 14:07:05

ElphabaTheGreen - just realised I didn't answer your question about earlier bedtime.

Last night we were in bed by 8.10 which seemed great. I want to slowly move it forward but atm she needs me with her as she won't settle at all if she can't see me and I'm a little reluctant to go to bed sooner than 8. Our bedtime routine starts at about 7.15ish now with bath (together to help me relax too, plus lovely skin to skin time) pj's and grobag, cuddles with bunny while I read a few books then feed to sleep atm. I made a point of doing it all in her room last night so small step but a step non the less smile

I'm hoping once she can settle after waking without me there I'll move it forward again closer to 7.

SamraLee Fri 05-Apr-13 14:50:09

My daughter is 9 months in a few days. I'm in a similar situation although with the help of the No Cry Sleep solution book we managed to move from 6-7 wake-ups to 3-4. If she wakes in the night she demands to be breastfed and the few times where I was completely fed up and just needed my husband to take over she cried and cried, holding her arms out to me and saying mama, it was heartbreaking. Sometimes she will take a dummy which is helpful and normally falls asleep with a dummy when she goes down for the night, but not for her wake-ups.

We have her cot pushed up to the bed and she goes down in that at about 7pm and normally sleeps until I come to bed at about 9:30/10pm. I was worried she'd roll out of the cot and then roll out of the bed, she hasn't and when she does wake up she just cries and waits for me to come and get her. I was able to get her to sleep in the cot with lots of gradual retreats and slowly introducing the cot to her.

We tried to introduce a lovey, but it doesn't work she picks it up and throws it when I try to give it to her. I do keep trying new things and I think that I finally found one that she likes.

I've sort of given up on trying to get more sleep and just let her breastfeed in the middle of the night when she wakes up. If I don't let her breastfeed she just screams and trys to breastfeed from anything she can, my arm or belly are popular favorites.

I'm happy to share in the misery. Worst part for me is that when she spends the night at her grandma's house she goes down in the travel cot, wakes once for a quick cuddle then back to sleep until morning. She has never done this for me...envy

ohmentalnessisme Fri 05-Apr-13 15:08:32

Can I join please? I just got this book. My dd is 11mo and still doesn't sleep for more than about 2 hours at a time! She spends most of the night in bed with me because otherwise I would get no sleep at all. She seems to only ever go into light sleep and wakes as soon as I try to put her in her cot or even just when my nipple leaves her mouth. I am desperate for a good night's sleep and some time with dh so am really hoping this works for us as I can't bring myself to do cc.

PenelopeChipShop Fri 05-Apr-13 18:43:57

I could have written goodking's post, with the exception that my ds does sleep in his cot in his room from bedtime at 7 til his first wake up, usually 9.30/ 10pm. At that point I fall into our bed exhausted, DH grabs ds from the cot for a quick cuddle hello (he's often working late) then deposits ds's cross little face opposite my boobs at which point it transforms and the tears instantly stop. I latch him on, we fall asleep together and then he helps himself all night! Some nights I am lucky and he doesn't cry all night, though he always feeds, but some nights he wakes for no apparent reason and I have to get up and rock him back to sleep then try to get back in bed holding him . Woe betide me if I try to put him in the cot after 10pm! I was reading NCSS this morning and have resolved to start trying soon ( ds has a bit of a cold at the mo so will just wait for that to clear) so this thread is well timed for us!

Elphaba sorry to hear you're still going through it even now you're back at work. I recognise you from several sleep threads a few months back.

CC is most definitely not the miracle cure for non-sleepers. I can't tell you how awful it is to be desperate enough to try it, when nothing else has worked, and then not have it work at all. DS would scream for 1.5 to 2 hours, then sleep for 40-45 minutes then we'd have that cycle on repeat all night. It went on for six nights with no change whatsoever. It was absolutely fucking hideous and unless someone has a crystal ball and can guarantee me that if I were to do it again it would work within the three nights it seems to for other people, there's no way I'm doing it again. I wish I'd never done it but I was (and still am) so desperate for something to work. I'd never, ever judge anyone for doing it - and I have can come out with guns blazing to defend peoples' choice to do it if debates about it get nasty - because it can be very effective for some people. But I wish I'd heard from more people for whom it hadn't worked before trying it as I could have saved myself a lot of heartache.

We also tried the horrible version of gradual withdrawal where you sit by the cot while they cry. That did get us down to three wake-ups a night, after three horrific weeks of endless, endless crying (mine and DS's) but as soon as he got a cold, he was worse than he ever had been. He would sleep nowhere but on me and was waking up hourly and has never again gone back to three wake-ups a night.

Moral of the story is: leaving them to cry is not the sure fix it's made out to be, and even if it does work, you may need to keep repeating it after illness, teething etc. Ugh.

I've come to the conclusion that some babies are just more strongly connected than others to the way babies are biologically designed to sleep - with their mothers, with free access to boobs. The difficulty is not the baby's sleep, but the modern lifestyle into which we try to fit them - a cot, in a separate room, with mothers who have to work. I'm no attachment parent by any stretch, but the longer this sleep thing goes on, the more convinced I am that that particular theory has legs.

<Elphaba wanders off nodding and murmuring sagely, searching hopefully for chocolate>

Goodkingwalkingslass Fri 05-Apr-13 20:34:29

Well we stayed at my mums house last night. Whether it was the different bed or Ds getting a cold and being a bit mucousy but we didn't have a great night. He wanted to feed loads and was very unsettled all night. My mum thinks I need to get him into the cot ASAP but I'm totally buying in to your theory Elphaba, just wish I could convince my well meaning friends and family with it too!

sparklekitty Fri 05-Apr-13 20:45:12

I'm with you elphaba, I truly think that babies are programmed to stay as close to you as possible at all times. I think our problem is our lifestyle. If we didn't have work etc to think about feeding every 2 hours might not be such a killer!

I was hoping that the closer I kept my dd the more secure shed feel and would gradually be able to be more independent. It's worked in all other areas of her/our life except sleep. I guess babies are at their most vulnerable then so it's the hardest one to stop.

Sorry, sleep deprived ramble over.

I'm currently in bed with our dd who has been fast asleep or the past hour and now wants feeding. I was keeping bedtime for about 8 but she had 3 decent naps today then was getting tired just before 7 so I started bedtime.

I'm going to try and hold our feeding her till 11.39 now

SamraLee Fri 05-Apr-13 21:08:22

Well said Elphaba.

It can get frustrating when all you want is some sleep and the baby just wants sleep, but neither of you seem to be able to do it. Sometimes I just want to chuck all the theories out the window and just let the baby do as she pleases so she'll be happy usually on days I actually get some sleep and other days I'm clinging desperately to them, hoping they'll work some day. The belief I usually hold strong is that by 3 she should at least be sleeping through the night, mostly. My husband's brother didn't sleep through until he was 7 though...Which totally ruins my positive thinking.

Good luck sparkle I hope it all goes well for you.

paperclips Fri 05-Apr-13 21:44:57

Count me in...

I read the No Cry Sleep Solution a few weeks ago and haven't really got round to putting stuff into practice yet.

I've got less than three months till I go back to work, and I need to get DS's sleep sorted before then, as I work shifts and DH will have to put him to bed some of the time.

Elphaba is right. It pisses me off the way the "real world" gets in the way of parenting, because, really, I love that I can feed my baby to sleep, it is the most natural and normal thing in the world. I think it's sad that parenting decisions should be determined more by Work, than what my baby really needs. But that's the modern world.

Anyway. DS is tucked up asleep in his own room at the moment. I'm going to try and go to sleep now before he wakes up.

DrMcDreamysWife Sat 06-Apr-13 05:00:48

Thankyou so much fur sharing your experiences of cc and gradual withdrawal Elphaba It sounds awful and I really feel for you. One of my close mummy friends has done it recently with huge success, her 7mo now sleeps through! But to be honest her ds has never been much of a crier and is less clingy, I really feel it wouldn't work for my dd and I definitely don't feel strong enough to try.

I'm with you sparkle, it feels natural to have dd close to me and to spend our nights together, I wouldn't mind her still needing me for food/comfort a couple of times a night....every hour is exhausting! And I miss my dh! He can't sleep with her in the bed, he snores, wriggles, and likes to cocoon in a duvet! So we can't all bunk up ;)

Nicknamefail Sat 06-Apr-13 09:48:37

I can't look back and see who posted the bit about do giving dc a cuddle hello and depositing him cross onto boobies, but it sounds familiar. Dh just can't settle dd in the middle of the night (although rarely he can at the first 45 mins wake up- but not normally back from work then.....). Last night at 3am dd had a wake up, and dh gave her a lovely cuddle, at which she screamed until she could have a nice suck on me, not even a proper feed. I feel sorry for me, that I always have to do it, but also for him, as it must be heartbreaking when they won't settle for you, or reach out for someone else.

Last night massively crap btw. So crap that the idea of trying Nything other than cuddling and feeding all night frightens me. Especially after reading Elphabas post. At some point, she will grow out of it, but the thought of returning to work with the amount of sleep I get is a little daunting. Hmmmmm.

sparklekitty Sat 06-Apr-13 10:50:57

Nickname, my night was awful too! I was determined not to feed her between 3 hour slots. She just wouldn't be cuddled or anything so I ended up feeding sad

I guess the positive is that it was 2 hourly rather than every hour.

I find things hard coz my DH (who is amazing with her) works shifts so is often not home till late at night. We also need to make sure he has a decent amount of sleep coz his job can be quite dangerous, esp if sleep deprived.

We've not tried having DH settle her yet, although he is going to start when hes on rest days. DD woke up this morning and reached out for him straight away then happily fell asleep holding his hand. I'm sure it wont be that easy when she has decided its boob she wants tho!

Poor little thing seems shattered today! Currently napping on my lap as shes refused the cot for a week or so now sad

SamraLee Sat 06-Apr-13 12:01:25

Sorry you had a rough night. I don't really remember my night, but very tired this morning. My daughter has been having a hard time every morning, before the sun comes up and she wakes up and won't settle at all. She breastfeeds coming on and off the boob, will fall asleep for a few moments then wake up, take the dummy then want boob, etc in an endless circle. She finally slept laying on top of me for a few more hours. Hopefully tonight will be better for everyone.

DrMcDreamysWife Sat 06-Apr-13 12:21:29

Sorry people had bad nights sad

Mine was actually quite good! It was the second night of moving bedtime an hour earlier, and I think that's helping. She went into cot at 7pm which is the earliest EVER!! Woke after 40 minutes ;( but resettled with me leaning into cot rubbing her back and playing lullaby, she pinched my arm for 5 minutes and went back to sleep! I then went to bed coz I was exhausted and dh sat next to cot, he resettled her about half nine and then she screamed for me about 11.30 and took a mahoosive double boob feed....but that was the first feed since 6.30?! Incredible. She then went back in cot at midnight, needed a quick cuddle at 1.30 but then crashed out till almost 4.30 and took a big feed again before sleeping till 7.

God sorry that was a bit rambly....but basically she did two 5 hour gaps between feedings!! Which is amazing?! She also once went 3 hours between wakings which I'm pleased with. She is getting easier to resettle in her cot. I'm trying not to pick her up just play lullaby sheep and do shush pat and it seems to be working which it never did before?!

I'm hoping tonight will be similar. About to take her on an epic walk around the park to give her a good sleep. Once she's finished throwing plum and courgette sticks all over the kitchen!!

sparklekitty Sat 06-Apr-13 16:14:13

Yay McDreamy smile That sounds like a great night and a great idea for the walk too.

I was also on night 2 of earlier bedtime. It might have been a bit too early tho. 1st night in bed by 8, last night I tried earlier coz shed not napped since 3. She's asleep now so hopefully i'll keep her down till 7 so an 8ish bedtime should be ok although I could do with an earlier one I reckon

Fingers crossed for tonight

Elphaba's Thought for the Day:

For those of you worried about going back to work on no sleep, working is actually easier than looking after a baby when you're knackered, probably because your mind is taken up with things other than, 'Christ, I'm tired.' 'If I have to lug this child another step I'm going to collapse.' 'Please, please, please, please miraculously nap for two hours so I can get some sleep too. Shit. You woke up after 20 minutes. Again.'

My short term memory is absolutely destroyed so I've had to get in the habit of writing everything down and I have occasional word and name finding difficulties, but otherwise I'm strangely more functional at work than I was at home on broken sleep.

sparklekitty Sat 06-Apr-13 20:00:32

That's good news about work, except I'm a teacher so I'm swapping looking after my own baby for educating other people's, in quite a challenging school too!

Still, maybe you're right, ill be too busy trying to predict their next moves to think about how bone achingly tired I am! grin

I am currently sat next to her cot where she's been crashed out for the past half hour or so! The longest she's stayed in her cot for for over a week. And we've never tried it at night so even if she wakes up hollering now its another small step in the right direction grin

DrMcDreamysWife Sat 06-Apr-13 20:18:59

sparkle every small step is still a step. Hope she lasts awhile!! My dd is in her cot and has been since 7, she was woken twice already though ;( ....shush patting worked both times though hooray!

Work wise I'm a teacher too and having to teach control a room of 30 teenagers who would rather be anywhere else fills me with dress! I always needed masses of bouncing energy to interest them and keep my cool in sticky situations. Still not back till August so fingers crossed for sleep by then!!

DrMcDreamysWife Sat 06-Apr-13 20:19:48

Dread not dress!! Stupid phone

DrMcDreamysWife Sun 07-Apr-13 10:38:01

Morning all, how were people's nights?

Ours was pretty awful and back to usual 1-2 hour 'just let me graze all night mummy or I'll scream' antics'. She went down at 7, needed a bit of comforting at half past but slept soundly till nine at which point the cat knocked over a vase in the living room which smashed and woke dd up. Dh tried to comfort her and all hell broke loose! I ended up feeding her back to sleep and she must of thought ' oh brilliant boob is on tap again' and the rest if the night is a blur of feeding and not a lot of sleep. No amount of pantley pull off or lullaby in the cot would help and she spent most of the night snuggled in my bed with my nipple in her mouth (grin)

Needless to say when she woke for day at 7 she didn't want feeding (confused)!

Hope others had more success last night!

MrsKoala Sun 07-Apr-13 16:39:48

Hi all, I'm not sure if this is the right thread for me. I've just got the book and am reading it. BUT the problem isn't ds wont sleep - he will. Well. But only on the bed. I cannot get him into the cot at all. If i allow him to co-sleep he sleeps from 8-8 and naps twice a day for about 3-4 hours. But...

I am crippling myself co sleeping - i have bad knees, hips, back and shoulders and sleeping with him in my arms is making me ache all over. I am on prescription codeine to get thru the pain and i can barely climb the stairs or get off the toilet due to pain and unstable joints now.

When i try to get him in the cot (over the past 2 months), he screams and will not sleep at all. i end up awake all night soothing him and returning him but the moment he touches the mattress he wakes.

Any advice gratefully received, or should i start my own thread?

monkeysbignuts Sun 07-Apr-13 16:47:08

I am in the same boat with my 3rd baby and not sure what to do. He's 6 months old and a terrible sleeper, I am exhausted beyond belief! He wakes up every 1 1/2 hours if I am lucky and end's up in our bed every night because I am just too tired to keep trying the cot.
He will go to sleep in the cot on his own which is great but if he wakes up he will only go back to sleep next to me.
He was breast fed until 5 months and I have weaned him onto bottles now. He's just started solids the last few days.
Can I join you, any advice for a zombified mummy please smile

Goodkingwalkingslass Sun 07-Apr-13 17:05:04

Mrskoala your nights sound like mine. Ds sleeps well if co sleeping but all hell breaks loose if we try the cot. Sorry to hear its causing you so much pain though. No ideas I'm afraid, don't know where to begin getting my Ds into the cot!

Hope you find a solution :-)

MrsKoala Sun 07-Apr-13 17:52:29

Well DS will sleep on the mattress on the floor alone happily too (so he doesn't have to be co-sleeping as it were). But i cant rest as he is now crawling and he is very active. Also he will only sleep on his front with his face smushed into a pillow and i am terrified of him suffocating so i get even less sleep.

Now he is so wriggly tho he scratches, kicks and punches me in his sleep and also i think me and DH are keeping him awake. So none of us are getting a good sleep and DS is very ratty.

I have put a mattress next to the cot and will try laying next to him tonight. we are going on holiday next week and i really wanted to be able to cot him and have several a couple of glasses of wine.

sparklekitty Sun 07-Apr-13 18:15:25

Well, I thought we were in for a decent night last night. It began so well, 7-9ish in the cot (with 3 wakes) However, after getting into our bed it was constant wanting boob and rocking to try and avoid it.

She also decided at about 3am that she was wide awake and was going to practice trying to roll and chattering away. I turned my back and ignored her! I guess the positive was that she drifted off on her own.

I'm shattered tho, reckon I got maybe 3 or 4 hours broken sleep! Had the IL's here today too, think we all looked a wreak!

Forgetfulmog Sun 07-Apr-13 18:21:27

Marking place - dd is 6 mo & sleeps on me ATM. We can't put her in her own room unt next month but want to try the ncss when we do. We've bought a Ewan the dream sheep too

SamraLee Sun 07-Apr-13 19:30:43

I had some luck with getting my daughter to sleep in her cot. Very gradual retreat though, so not ideal for your holiday situation, I'm afraid. However if you'd like to try it, I'll give you an idea of how I did it.

First during the day we would pop her in for a few minutes at a time so she could get use to being in the cot. We put the cot right up to the bed. We slept as normal for a few nights, co-sleeping. I also slept with her out of my arms with the cot bars blocking her from rolling off the bed. Then we took down the bars and slept like that for a few nights. Then when I put her down to sleep, put my face right against hers/breastfed whatever I could to get her to sleep while she was actually laying down in the cot. Finally we are at the stage now were I rock her until she is tired (I wait until her eyelids close for five seconds) and then I set her in the cot. I can then lay in my side of the bed, while she lays in her cot until she fals asleep. The next step will be being able to put her down and then leave the bed, then leave the room for her to fall asleep.

All this being said we still have the cot up against the bed so in the middle of the night she can cuddle me if she wants, and she doesn't try to cuddle me every night, but most nights she does at some point want a cuddle. I'm sure we will get to the point where we can leave her in the cot away from the bed, but not there yet.

Hope this helps.

sparklekitty Sun 07-Apr-13 20:26:40

That actually really does help. I think I'm going to try it the way I originally planned but revert to this if original plan fails need to show DH I'm giving if a go first

I kind of feel like we're back to sq one tonight. She's not napped properly at all today, had IL so she was very excited and now it seems she's teething, classic red cheeks, dribbly and cramming her hand in her mouth shrieking. I can see a white dot on her bottom gum so fingers crossed.

Anyway, I really didn't think it was fair on her to try putting her somewhere a she's not entirely happy while she's feeling like this so we're currently snuggled up in bed boob in mouth obviously where I plan on staying for the night. I'm also thinking ill let her comfort feed a bit too.

I guess part of my problem is in a softy with my pfb hmm

Bit of a tip which has worked here a couple of times now (although I have learned <laughs bitterly> not to get too excited about these things): I've noticed a few people here have babies who also wake up after the first sleep cycle i.e. 40 minutes after first falling asleep. Try the 'wake-to-sleep' trick - go in 30 minutes after they first fall asleep and give them a firm jiggle. They'll still be heavily enough asleep to not wake fully, but it will stir them enough to wake up slightly, then fall asleep into the next slightly longer sleep cycle. The theory goes that you can eventually stop doing the jiggle and they'll do it of their own accord. I've done the jiggle a couple of times now and DS has gone from 7 until after 9 without waking fully and needing resettling.

Might go try another jiggle in about 10 minutes to see if I can make lightening strike twice grin

MrsKoala Sun 07-Apr-13 21:00:34

Cheers Samra - The problem we have is our house is shite tiny and the cot does not fit in our room and we don't have space next to the bed for anything. So what i am doing is putting him in the cot to play in the day - which he seems fine with. Then at night putting a mattress next to the cot and getting him to sleep on that while i'm in the single bed next to it (we have a day bed type thing with 2 single mattresses. one under the other). Then next step is to take the side off the cot and have him sleep in it while i sleep on the floor mattress next to it. Then eventually i sleep on the day bed while he's in the cot (with the side back on). Then, back into the nice big bed with DH! well that's the plan anyway. It'll have to be after the hols now tho.

W've kind of caused this as not being able to cot him in the bedroom, and travelling so much over the last 6months, has meant it was just easier to co-sleep.

MrsKoala Sun 07-Apr-13 21:04:50

Yes, i'm the same Sparkle. DS is teething too, so i always relent as well. He already got 2 bottom ones at 5mo and now the tops are coming thru. he has had a miserable day, squealing, not napping, drooling and fist chewing - so he has boobed all day and is sleeping in the bed with me tonight, i will comfort feed all night if he wants it too. smile soft mummy!

sparklekitty Sun 07-Apr-13 21:45:24

That's reassuring to know koala. Our DD has been 'teething' as in everything moving around and causing her pain, from about 10 weeks and still no damn tooth!

I'm am def going to try that wake to sleep idea, esp for napping as this one is terrible for doing 40/45 mins then wide awake. Great idea, thanks grin

Goodkingwalkingslass Sun 07-Apr-13 22:24:09

Ha ha I am the same as some of you lot tonight, Ds has cold and horrible cough so there will be no trying the cot for us till he's better. We have cot pushed right up to the bed, will take side off tomorrow and try getting him in there like that. The irony is that until he was 4mo he slept in a Bednest attached to the bed but outgrew that so came into the bed. Should have just switched him to a 3-sided cot then!

sparklekitty Mon 08-Apr-13 17:00:34

My DH took our LO to we weighed today and was chatting to HV and breastfeeding specialist about DD sleep. Breastfeeding sp suggested giving a dose of calpol an hour before bed while trying to get them to self settle, that way you know the tears are not linked to cold/teeth/pain confused Not sure what I reckon on that.

Tonight it the first night of me starting in her room trying to get her in te cot.

HV said the key is getting them to self settle, the rest will fall in place after that. Not sure if I should focus on the self settling thing in our bed first and if we're doing too much at one time or if I should just do it all in one go. I guess we'll see how tonight goes.

I've posted a question on the Tanya Byron web chat thing for tonight.

DS can self-settle - he just prefers not to! So don't be too disappointed if you crack that particular nut only to find it makes no difference.

This is a fantastic blog entry on how self-settling is most certainly not the holy grail to unlocking unbroken nights.

SamraLee Mon 08-Apr-13 20:46:22

My baby can also self settle, but much prefers to have boob all night! She loves a cuddle and a breastfeed, I'm sure as most babies do, and so she just likes the cuddle to sleep.

An example of my little monkey is I put her to bed last night and she went to bed in her cot when she was awake, when she woke up at 11:00ish she cried so I picked her up and cuddle her, she cried harder. I tried her dummy, tried rocking her, tried patting, tried shushing, tried having her lay on top of me, nothing was working. Finally I asked, Do you want milk? and the adorable little thing instantly stopped crying and actually giggled with glee, after that I gave in and thought if this is all it takes to make her happy I'll do it.

Cravingdairy Mon 08-Apr-13 23:23:06

Can I join? Mine is 19 months and nothing in NCSS worked when we first tried sad but I want to have another go as I need to go away for a night in June. Today was supposed to be the first day trying the Pantley Pull Off again after total lack of success on previous occasions.Unfortunately she is teething and it took aaaages to settle her so no progress tonight. Tomorrow is another day and I will also be trying the lovey again. That was even less successful than the PPO! Good luck everyone.

MrsKoala Mon 08-Apr-13 23:24:06

DS cannot self settle. Last night he woke at 1am till 3.30, crawling and laughing round the bed. We played the Tomy night music thing so much the batteries died and the poor thing lost the will to live - a bit like me.

He has just woken up and is now playing with a toy remote control. I am so rubbish at this confused

Selenium Tue 09-Apr-13 09:44:47

I decided to start trying some of the methods two nights ago but it seems to be making things worse, not better, so far! Have been doing the PPO at bedtime and during night feeds and also popping ds back into his cot (which is right next to bed with the side off so not too different to normal!) after all feeds, rather than cosleeping.

Took me 2 hours to get him to sleep last night rather than the usual 30 mins of feeding to sleep! After the pull-off, he would just wake up properly and then we'd need to start feeding all over again. Sigh...

And he's so good at detecting when I'm right next to him in the bed. Takes me an age to get him to settle back down in his cot after a feed (and it's hard staying awake when I'm used to just latching him on lying down and going back to sleep myself!) and then he wakes after about an hour. I can actually see him rolling from side to side in his cot looking for me, before he gets upset. sad

Now I'm starting to wonder if cosleeping is easier. I'm going to give this at least another week though and see if we start to see an improvement soon. Hope others are getting better luck than me!

sparklekitty Tue 09-Apr-13 10:20:06

Well...last night was night 1 of 'operation camp out in DD room'. I fed her almost to sleep then in the cot, she woke up briefly then drifted off with some sshhing.

She woke a few times, sometimes she needed a bit of sshhing to drift of, a few times she'd gone off before I had properly come around and got to her grin

She woke properly every 2 1/2 hours and wouldn't be settled so I fed her, she was obviously hungry as she fed for 15 mins each time.

She finally woke at 3.30, 2 hours after being fed and wouldn't settle with sshhing. I rocked her back to sleep but she wouldn't go back in the cot so I went to our bed with her.

For a first proper night it was hard work, def more tiring than feeding to sleep, even every hour. I'm shattered but it feels like a positive start. I think I have to accept its going to be worse before it gets better but I need to keep persevering with it. She has shown she can do longer stretches and can self settle a little bit. Best thing was there were hardly any tears grin

Fingers crossed tonight is another step forward not a step back

MrsKoala Tue 09-Apr-13 10:22:06

sad after last night i'm considering the pros and cons of having DS co-sleep till he's 25. i don't think i can do this. like Selenium it seems to be getting worse. Now DS can crawl he just crawls all round the bed squealing.

Yesterday i found his legs trapped between the bars of his cot - he had pushed them backwards while crawling and then got his chubby thighs trapped.

SamraLee Tue 09-Apr-13 14:09:23

MrsKoala, does your son wear a sleeping bag? I don't really have a problem with my daughter crawling around, but I bet it can be very frustrating. I find that the sleeping bag limits my daughter's movements a bit, maybe it would help your son not wiggle quite so much? She does manage to get around though as she likes to roll over looking for me and likes to sleep on her belly. My daughter tended to rol land roll when I put her down in the cot awake, I found out I had to rock her first until she was sleepy, I wait until her eyes have been closed for 5 seconds minimum and then put her in the cot.

sparkle that is really great news! I hope you keep progressing and try to stay strong, I know it can be hard. At least there weren't very many tears, I know it's easier to give in when there are tears.

selenium I know what you mean about being dectected, this is exactly how my daughter is. When I first put my daughter in our bedside cot I had to lay in the cot with her and then wiggle away and it didn't always work still doesn't sometimes I wish I had something more helpful, but for what it's worth you have my sympathy.

I think I'm going to have to wean her off night time feeds because we had her wakeups down to 2 a night and last night she woke up 6 times! She will tkae a dummy during the day and at night when she goes to sleep, but if she wakes up in the middle of the night she screams and pushes the dummy away. If I actually manage to get her to take one and then I lay her down with it, she takes it out and throws it. I've resorted to breastfeeding her on demand at night to make it easier, but I think it's just made it harder as she seems to wake up even more. We might try my husband sleeping next to her at night and seeing if that helps.

Cravingdairy Tue 09-Apr-13 19:09:49

Last night was horrendous! Our girl was up from 230 till 6. We had to sit with her in shifts. Definitely forging ahead with the PPO tonight!

Selenium Tue 09-Apr-13 20:30:06

Sounds like the general consensus is that things are getting worse before they get better! Perhaps that's to be expected from a gentle solution though? Each day I start with new resolve to continue with the NCSS strategies but as bedtime approaches, I lose the energy/enthusiasm to do anything but the path of least resistance (feeding completely to sleep, etc...)

SamraLee - that's interesting that your dd is the same! It's kind of nice knowing they want us to be there right next to them, I suppose!

Tonight has started better though - the PPO actually worked! Well, he cried for about 10 seconds, I put a hand on him to let him know I was there and he drifted off to sleep. I keep expecting to hear him over the monitor though - the night is young!

Hope you all have better nights tonight...

MrsKoala Tue 09-Apr-13 20:41:40

Well ds has gone down - he usually goes to bed at 8-8.30 but fell asleep spontaneously after his bath at 7.30pm. He has woken at 8.30 and been boobed but went straight back...

sparklekitty Wed 10-Apr-13 09:50:10

Last night was a def back to sq 1. I had an awful stomach ache and mini sparkle was teething. Did bedtime routine and even feeding her didn't send her off so I gave up before I started! Took her to bed at 7.30, fed her laying down and fed her to sleep every time she woke.

I was so tired I had the best nights sleep for ages. DD still fed every 2 1/2 hours (and she seemed hungry) and neither of us woke in between those times! If every night was like that I really wouldn't be bothering with sleep training!

DH is on nights for next 3 days so I've decided that I'm going to keep her in bed with me and work on self settling/stretching out time between feeds. As there will be more room in our bed she can also gets used to not sleeping snuggled up to me although this is the bit I love I really need to catch up on my sleep again before trying anew

DrMcDreamysWife Wed 10-Apr-13 10:42:04

It's just such hard work isn't it? After a week of trying to do ppo and get her in cot I broke down last night about 10 and couldn't stop crying. Basically because I was just so exhausted and was desperate for sleep but she wouldn't let my dh comfort or settle her and was just screaming for me. So obviously I relented but I was just so tired...

My dh so wants to help but she just will only occasionally let him help and it's just sooo tiring. Bumped into a friend in the park yesterday who was whingibg about her babies sleep problems,apparently her 5 mo will only sleep for 6-7 hours at night and then needs feeding. I wanted to scream at her 'that's not a problwm!' I kept my mouth shut about my dd's sleep.

Anyway a agree with you sparkle...I seem to end up with more sleep if I just let her cuddle in bed with me and let her feed when she stirs every 2 hours...and we need sleep to do the training?!

MrsKoala Wed 10-Apr-13 11:34:00

I totally caved last night and took DS in with me at 10.30. We slept all the way round to 5. At about 1 i slid him away to the other side of the bed (DH away atm) and he slept there happily and we both had the best night sleep in yonks. Even at 5 i just rocked him a bit and brought him closer to me and he slept again to nearly 8am.

If it wasn't for wanting to sleep in the same bed as DH, i'd be happy with that every night <sigh>

DrMcDreamysWife Wed 10-Apr-13 12:53:55

I know mrs koala it's all about the dh isn't it?! I would just really like to cuddle up to him once in awhile instead of her ladyship dd!! Although she does demand feeding still a lot even if in with me. I'm now developing h a fear she'll be demanding boob several times a night in years to come?! Did you see bedtime live with the little boy who asked for 'gok' his word for breastmilk all night long. He was over two!

MrsKoala Wed 10-Apr-13 15:24:00

Well i've had a mixed blessing in that DS actually doesn't really like milk or boob that much. He doesn't really get comfort from it. It means he has never really bothered about night feeding but also that he wont drink much and we had to wean at 4mo as he was dropping weight.

If he needs comfort, he likes to stroke my face.

DrMcDreamysWife Fri 12-Apr-13 21:17:39

That's sweet mrs koala, my dd likes to kneed me with her hands claws which I find pretty unpleasant at 2am.

How's everyone doing?! Dd went down at 7 no bother, woke at half seven, comforted without feeding again quite easily but is now crying her heart out while dh tries to comfort her before I give in and just feed her back to sleep sad

Anyone made any progress?

miniegg1980 Sun 14-Apr-13 20:44:18

Hi everyone, hope things are going well for you all.

Wondered if I could have your advice. My DS2 (9months) has always slept in his cot during the day and at 7pm no problem at too. The problems can start as early as 8pm. He wakes and just screams. Its not for milk as since going on the bottle last week he doesn't want it at night.

If I'm not ready for bed I rock him back to sleep in his carseat. Other wise he wants to be on my chest with me sleeping sitting up.

He's just been diagnosed with silent reflux and the pead wants me to do controlled crying with him to get him back in his cot.

I don't want to do this as I hate it and also don't think its fair on DS1 aged 3.

Anyone got any ideas? confused

MrsNPattz Sun 14-Apr-13 21:07:03

Hi I would really like to join you guys please! My little man is 7 months and I have been majorly stressing about routines/sleep training etc to the point where I'm tearful, anxious and rowing with hubby. So we have decided to abandon it all for a few weeks, apart from PPO. I started that yesterday and am going to stick with it as he will not fall asleep at night without being fed. He is waking 2-4 times a night. I am part way through the book and like some other ideas but not trying anything else until I have calmed down and cleared my head! Glad to know I'm not alone though and just off to finish reading the rest of the thread!

ratbagcatbag Mon 15-Apr-13 08:43:13

Hi ladies

Can I join please? My dd is only five weeks old so have just ordered the ncss book, but I'm worried as I return full time in sept to work so need to have something other than 1hour stints. The problem I've got is dd has just been diagnosed with reflux and now on medication, so after every feed she needs to sit upright on me for at least thirty mins. She will settle for about an hour in Moses basket, then wakes hungry again. Although I just cradled her on me last night and she did four hours!!!!!!
She's never been in her cot yet, it's not even got the bedding in, is it worth now playing with her in it to start getting her used to it?

SamraLee Mon 15-Apr-13 10:06:57

My daughter seems to be going through an ultra clingy phase right now, plus I think she is trying as hard as she can to walk which I think isn't helping. I think she's been teething for what seems like 3 months now and her nappy rash is coming back. At least she's never had a cold.

We are just trying to make it through. I'm going to talk to my husband about having him take over at night and see what he thinks. I can't decide if we should wean her off night feeds because I think she does it mostly for comfort, or if I should just let her nurse and enjoy the closeness while it lasts. When she sleeps at her grandma's house she refuses any milk at night and only wakes up once, but when she is at home she nurses all night.

That said, welcome new comers.

miniegg I'm sorry I don't have any experience with silent reflux and I don't have any advice. I know there are ways to help prop baby up to help with reflux at night, but I'm not sure what they are.

MrsNpatt I know what you mean about stressing about all the sleep training. When I first started doing the various things with my daughter I notice I was clenching my jaw because of the stress! I found the PPO helped with getting her to sleep in the cot and starting to fall asleep without nursing. I tried all the ideas in the book (that were relevant to me) and I still nurse my daughter to sleep many times a night. It will get better though.

ratbagAgain, I don't have any experience with Reflux, but most advice I have read doesn't suggest trying sleep training on babies until they are much older. Five weeks is very young, however if you have money to spend, my husband and I were desperate enough that we ordered and used a Cocoonababy which helped her sleep for a long time. We stopped around 4 months when she rolled out of it, as it was no longer safe. That is suppose to help with the reflux and you would be able to put it inside the cot to help her get use to the cot.

Pleasesleep Tue 16-Apr-13 07:07:11

Could I join? I am absolutely desperate with my ds. He's 9 months and my night goes something like this:

6pm bath
6.30 start feeding to sleep
7pm falls asleep put down in cot
8.30 wakes
9.30 wakes
10pm wakes
2am wakes for about an hour and a half
4am wakes for an hour
5.30 up for the day.

He will not settle for anything other than me feeding him to sleep. Is the Ncss any good? Part of the problem is I'm so tired I don't want to do anything that means I get LESS sleep! I know that's silly....

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