10 month old sleep issues

(201 Posts)
ditziness Sat 16-Mar-13 02:25:47

She's 10 months.she's never slept more than three hours. The last two weeks she's been waking 6-10 times a night. She screams so loud that she wakes the neighbours, who I can hear talking now. She's already been screaming six times tonight since 10pm. It's like torture. It's effecting how i feel about her, I'm genuinely less patient, I just hate her right now.

Hate co sleeping, can't sleep with her next to me in my arm pit pinching me and sucking. Can't stand the nagging feeling that that's the reason she sleeps so crap. Can 't do cc anymore either, the noise of her crying just makes me sob and feel like my head is going to explode. She doesn't give in either, none of this cries for an hour the first night, but sleeping happily ever after by the third. She just screams for hours until she gets fed.

I hate this. I don't know what to do

ditziness Sat 16-Mar-13 02:28:51

Just lying here crying . So tired I feel ill.

ahh ditziness - have you had her checked out recently? does she scream during the day?

i'm sure someone else will be along with better advice

nothing worse than tiredness

Twinklestarstwinklestars Sat 16-Mar-13 02:32:12

Have you got a partner that could give you a break for a few hours?

And have you ever had her checked out for problems such as reflux etc? Does she have a bottle every time she wakes?

Flossbert Sat 16-Mar-13 02:34:37

You have my sympathies. That sounds really tough. Have you spoken to the GP about it? Have you considered a cranial osteopath?

There was a very similar thread on here recently - will see if I can find it as one poster in particular had a million ideas.

WandaDoff Sat 16-Mar-13 02:35:00

Do you have your parents living close to you? Or a close friend who you would trust the wellbeing of your child to?

You sound like you really need a break my love.

Marcheline Sat 16-Mar-13 02:36:41

You poor thing, it sounds horrible. I'm sure you have tried everything.

Do you have a DP that can give you a bit of a break? How is she during the day?

My DD1 was a terrible sleeper, I really sympathise.

ditziness Sat 16-Mar-13 02:39:51

She's breastfed, refuses a bottle , goes hysterical if you offer her one.

She's fine during the day. Bit whiny sometimes, but aren't they all.

She was a bit chucky uppy when she was newborn, but nothing spectacular. She doesn't seem to have reflux. She just wants to lie in my arm pit with nipple in her mouth. If that's no the case she's screaming

Husband helps, he tries to settle her each time so she's not being fed all night. Sometimes he can get her to shut up and go back to sleep, but only for like 30 mins . He's desperate too

LillyofWinchester Sat 16-Mar-13 02:41:44

I don't have any advice but just really feel for you. I agree with twinkle, have you been to the gp or health visitor? Maybe there's an underlying cause. Do you have a partner/mum/friend who can help?

ditziness Sat 16-Mar-13 02:42:21

I'm going back to work next week too. God knows how that's possible. My eldest has been sleeping through for months by now. Don't know what I'm doing wrong.

MissRenataFlitworth Sat 16-Mar-13 02:43:05

You poor soul - didn't want you to go unanswered and there might not be many people up at this time.

Has she a cot of her own where she will be safe? If so, put her in it, shut the bedroom door, and go make yourself a cup of tea and take a breather for ten minutes. Your baby won't melt if left for a little while, and you will feel a bit more able to cope. Sounds as if you've nobody to help. It must be really hard. Chin up, chicken. Were it not for the flaming I'd get for advocating the drugging of small children, I'd advise you to go get some Phenergan tomorrow. Just to break the cycle so you both get some sleep.

ditziness Sat 16-Mar-13 02:43:31

Yes you're all right. I'll take her to the doctors on Monday

WandaDoff Sat 16-Mar-13 02:43:39

Where are you?

If you are in Glasgow or surrounding areas then I'd happily take DC away for a few hrs so you can sleep.

ditziness Sat 16-Mar-13 02:47:49

Husband helps, but it's only really to nurse she wants. No one else close. She'd just scream and wake the neighbours all niht anyway if someone else had her.

Ha! Usually I'd be one of the flamers, but right now that sounds brilliant :-(

LillyofWinchester Sat 16-Mar-13 02:55:54

If your eldest has been sleeping through then that shows its not something you are doing wrong - I hope the doctor can help.

ditziness Sat 16-Mar-13 02:58:24

Eldest slept thru, give or take the odd time, from 7 months ish

will she take a dummy?
i'm too tired to think straight (ironic lol)
but deffo remember 1 of mine wanting to feed all night - turns out they just liked sucking. dummy gave them that bit of comfort and we all slept

I had this. DD (now 2) woke all night for almost 2 years months. Only a boob would do. I hated cosleeping and she was bad at it too. Didn't sleep well and I was quite miserable. DH is still convinced I had PND. I didn't, it was 'just' sleep deprivation. All I can say is there is an end to it. DD sleeps though now. She will always need less sleep than other children.

After a year I night weaned and did very gentle CC. Not CIO, just a few seconds then back in, reassure, out for 20 seconds, reassure, 30 seconds, reassure. Never more than a couple of minutes. She got the message that DM was always there but not picking up or feeding.

It will be over before you know it. Those people who love the baby stage... you will breeze through the twos because you will finally have some sleep.

nametakenagain Sat 16-Mar-13 03:07:18

You sound as if you're are really suffering. Yes, get her checked out, but in the meantime, take turns if you can so at least one of you can sleep. She's probably fine but she's not sleeping enough for you or her. Mine did not want to take her first bottle at this age, but I had to persist because I was going back to work. I mimicked nursery hours, and it worked within a couple of days. Start it when you're feeling a bit stronger and less knackered. (Mine still bf til age 3 so she learnt to flip between the two).

nellyjelly Sat 16-Mar-13 04:03:10

Hope you getting some sleep tonight. Get her checked but imo she needs to be weaned off bfing at night. At 10 months she doesn't need a feed in the night. My DS used to wake to feed so we just used to take it in turns to lie next to his cot doing ' pat shush'. He didn't like it and it took a while but eventually he got the message and stopped waking for a feed.

pipsqueakz Sat 16-Mar-13 04:11:33

Maybe cooled boiled water to drink and slowly reduce the amount weaning her off does she suffer from colic? As one of the posts says you did well with your eldest all babies are different but if in doubt health visitor or gp. Have u tried the swaddle technique Feel for u my youngest now two was a rotter at nite has grown out of it just have probs getting him to bed at times now. Take care if you need a chat pm.

BonaDrag Sat 16-Mar-13 05:24:39

I had exactly the same situation OP.

At ten months I done cc. It was four nights of hell but she's been sleeping fine alone ever since.

If you can't face doing it, could you stretch to hiring a sleep trainer for a couple of nights? General rate between £100-200 a night.

Don't suffer any more, get help.

DublinMammy Sat 16-Mar-13 05:33:59

Am hoping you are all asleep now, just wanted to send sympathy and say perhaps sit down with this thread in the light of day and decide with your OH which of the many excellent suggestions to try. It's hard to think straight in the night when you are in despair. It WILL get better, good luck with her.

TessTing123 Sat 16-Mar-13 05:45:01

My ds was just like this. Turned out to have a dairy allergy.

Sympathies. Hope you manage to work out what's wrong and get some sleep.

Oh, and he is now my BEST sleeper. Never thought I'd say that. Take heart. It won't be forever.

BlackholesAndRevelations Sat 16-Mar-13 05:59:01

My DS was very similar. I tried loads of different bottles and hd eventually took a breastflow one.

Sleep deprivation is hideous sad

PeerieMootsMum Sat 16-Mar-13 06:04:47

I hope you're sleeping right now OP smile

Just wanted to say I remember sobbing to OH that I really did not like our baby (inside it felt much more like hate but I was already ashamed of 'not liking' him) after three months of no sleep at all.

Things got better after reflux meds and white noise and I instantly was totally in love again, so take heart and don't worry about your bond it's just been sleep frazzled.

I hope you get some answers from GP on Monday and might be worth a try with white noise if you haven't already. Best advice I had was that it needs to be loud and constant,, not just for 15 mins while they fall asleep, as it sooths them from one sleep cycle to the next. This is definitely true IME but is also why I'm currently sitting in a tropical rain storm...

McGilly Sat 16-Mar-13 06:10:00

My sympathies, my baby was the same from about 8 months, starting to settle down now at 13 months. I have no answers other than YANBU to say such feelings in a safe place. And you are obviously a good mum as you are clearly ttrying to do the best thing by your baby. Trust your own feelings and try what you feel is worth trying. Let everything non- essential go until this period passes. I feel like we are just coming out of that tunnel now .... So many eight months-plus babies sum do

McGilly Sat 16-Mar-13 06:11:43

Sorry - so many babies simply do not sleep! I've had three and they are all fantastically bright and healthy ... It's the parents' health at risk!

theressomethingaboutmarie Sat 16-Mar-13 06:11:49

DS is just the same. He's 7 months old and of late, cannot sleep for more than 45 mins without sucking on my nipples/feeding. We co-slept last night as usual (not by choice, only way that I can get any sleep) and I doubt that I had more than an hour t a stretch. I'm exhausted. Can't do gentle cc as it would wake DD.

He refuses bottles (hysterical when they are offered).

vvviola Sat 16-Mar-13 06:17:42

Like TessTing123, my DD was like this & it turned out she had dairy allergies (and others). Was waking every 45 minutes screaming.

She improved quickly once both she & I went off dairy. She still isn't a brilliant sleeper, but she's nowhere near as bad as she was.

Another thing that seemed to help longer term was getting her to settle herself to sleep when I first put her down to bed (I still feed her to sleep overnight). The better she got at that, the fewer wake ups we had.

Hang in there. It WILL get better,

HDEE Sat 16-Mar-13 06:22:44

Mine all reached that point around nine months. I weaned them cold turkey, and the sleeping improved immediately.

Mine probably weren't quite as bad as your daughter, but they woke every couple of hours, had a few sucks of breast milk then went straight back to sleep, so not even a proper feed. They just needed the comfort of teh breast to get back to sleep - all well and good if you don't have to function the day.

Wean her, then try CC again, would be my advice.

Bearandcub Sat 16-Mar-13 06:31:34

Oh you poor thing. YANBU we have all felt like this at some point even if for some it was fleeting. Everything you feel is ok, it's actions that count at this stage.

In terms of trying everything, I'd go with the following:
Is she warm enough? Add a layer, see if it settles her. Obviously not to the point of overheating though.
Dummy - they are not nice but sleep deprivatiOn is worse. Buy every type, keep trying.
Check out going dairy free it might help. Keep a food diary and monitor her behaviour too in it, see if you can spot a pattern.
Give her some calpol, see if it helps.

Leave her with DH, go and sleep elsewhere at a friends, family, a hotel. She and he will be ok, you need the help more at the moment.

jaggythistle Sat 16-Mar-13 06:38:47

My DS2 is a similar age and also up loads. DS1 was sleeping through at least sometimes by now so its hard as I'd been hoping for a bit of a rest! He goes in his cot at first.and I keep putting him back till I just can't be bothered.

Then he's in with me as I need some sleep - I've been back at work ft since he was 7Mo. sad

I'm currently reading the No Cry Sleep solution but am too sleepy to follow it!

I don't do leaving to cry but he shares a room with his brother anyway.

I was feeling the irrational rage myself last night when he was taking ages to settleblush. He'd feed for ages so handed him to DH and he then stayed up playing for ages.

Good luck! I'm sure they will sleep one day. . .

Lockedout434 Sat 16-Mar-13 06:42:43

It might help to get a rubber teat (some boots do then) rather than a silicon one. My 1st wouldn't take a bottle until I was recommended this teat. It must mean my boobies are rubbery ;).

Good luck keep the mantra. It's only a phase and that this to will pass

maras2 Sat 16-Mar-13 07:24:23

Hope that you have managed some sleep.Blooming babies,break your heart dont they?My DD was lucky that me and her dad live nearby so when DGS,then later DGD went on a crying jag we were able to share the load.Do you have parents nearby?God bless you anyway and hope that you can work something out. Mx.

zirca Sat 16-Mar-13 07:36:57

Doesn't sound right, so I'd second the gp idea. My DC feeds a lot in the night (every 3 hours) if I've been at work all day so there's been little milk going in for the 10 hours I'm at work. Your DC sounds hungry/tummy achey - what is her eating like? If she won't take a bottle, can you add some very milky baby rice/porridge/readybrek (anything to make the milk taste different lol) to her diet to get some formula in and see if that helped her sleep at night? I've been told if they eat enough during the day they will naturally sleep more at night, and it does seem to be true - at weekends my baby sleeps 6-7 hours at night without waking as I've been there to bf all day.

candyandyoga Sat 16-Mar-13 07:42:12

Please speak you your doctor and really consider seeing a cranial osteopath, it worked wonders with my babies. It's not you, it's not even the bf or cosleeping, they are wonderful things for babies. Seek support and advice. X

ditziness Sat 16-Mar-13 07:45:04

Bless, yous all made me cry again. Thought I'd get a flaming for saying I hate her. Thank you for understanding.

I ended up co sleeping about half four, so had a couple of hour uncomfortable light sleep with her in my arm pit. Then DS woke up.

Been like this for so long, over a year as I couldn't sleep the last bit of my pregnancy for spd and heartburn. Don't know how I'm still going. Look about a decade older

I'll look at your suggestions later with a clear(er) head. DH has got up with the kids so I'm going to try and go back to sleep for a bit.

Just feel broken. Ache all over, feel sick, getting every virus going, eating shite, no patience, no fun.

Where in the country are you lovely?

Artichook Sat 16-Mar-13 07:57:58

I may get flamed for this but I would stop BFing. She will take a bottle if breast is not an option. Within a couple of weeks the desire to nurse all night will go and then it will be much easier to sort out sleeping.

I returned to work when mine wee 9 month old BFed bottle refuses. Thru continued to refuse milk from anything but a breast so they took to wanting to feed all night to make up for my absent days. I therefore fear things may get worse for you next week. Maybe see how it goes, I may be wrong.

DoJo Sat 16-Mar-13 08:25:48

Just to add, whilst the advice to stop breastfeeding is possibly sound, I would get her checked by your GP before doing so in case it's something else as you don't want to stop, find that it hasn't helped and regret the decision. I'm only saying this because I was breastfeeding and my son was waking every 45 minutes, and I was convinced he needed night weaning at least. I did night wean him and it didn't help as he had other issues that meant he was waking up in pain and the sucking was just the only comfort he had to relieve it and distract himself. I'm so glad I didn't actually give up breastfeeding as I would have really regretted it (not least because I was still fairly sleep deprived at the time and hence a little over emotional!).

HerrenaHarridan Sat 16-Mar-13 08:34:53

Oh ditiz!

It's ok to feel the way you do, completely normal for your circumstances!

A few suggestions you may or may not have tried

Muslin, my dd will not take a dummy but won't sleep with out something in her mouth so she ended up with a corner of muslin. ( after months of sleeping how you describe!)

Scratch mits, to stop her pinching you. If she just gets these off you can get sleep suits with them built in wink

Music, I have a symphony lullabies cd my mum bought me, no explanation but wow it really helped her settle.

If you think her cry is pained as opposed to temper/ fear/ need for comfort please do take her to gp.

I don't know how much family support you have but if your in or around edinburgh and would like a bit of help feel free to pm me smile

Please don't hate yourself for feeling like this, sleep deprivation does horrible things to us, it will pass x

lagoonhaze Sat 16-Mar-13 08:50:25

If you would like a e copy of no cry sleep pm me.

I know where you are right now. Been there, done it and still do it in cycles now.

I found starting with settling her in cot for first part of night worked, me going bed early then bringing her in with me worked. I have a cot sidecarred to my bed to give us extra space which I think helped as meant I could move her over away from me which encouraged her to have own space.

I don't think nightweaning is the magic solution.

Offcolour Sat 16-Mar-13 09:02:52

We used millpond sleep consultants, the results were amazing. This it cost about £250.

My Ds1 did this at about the same age. I managed to get him onto a dummy at about 11m old having had a few months of waking every hour or so for one sip of boob! He didnt stop BFing til 18m (and that was only really due to the imminent arrival of his little brother) so you don't have to stop if you don't want to.

Am at exactly the same stage now with DS2, just he's 10m and won't sleep with a dummy yet, but is just about getting the hang of sucking it in the day... smile

FutTheShuckUp Sat 16-Mar-13 09:11:31

Sounds stupid and basic but is she getting some teeth coming through?

Blessyou Sat 16-Mar-13 09:12:12

Another one who went through this and it turned out to be dairy allergy (and other allergies).

Could you try eliminating dairy and see if there's an improvement?

I feel for you! You poor thing. My DS2 is the same, I co-sleep as it's the only way to get any sleep, I wouldn't be able to function if I didn't. He's 1 now and still breastfeeds a lot, wakes several times a night, he usually feeds back to sleep but sometimes has stretches of 1-2hrs where he's awake climbing all over me.
During the day he's really clingy and needs constant stimulation. I've never come across another baby like him, very very difficult (DS1 is the easiest child ever, they're opposites).
All I can say is that it isn't anything you're doing/not doing, you aren't making her like this, it's just the way she is. Google "high needs baby" I found that helpful.
It took me a long time to truly bond with DS2, he just seemed to scream constantly unless he was attached to my boob for the first 9 months of his life. I'm ashamed to say I sometimes wished I'd never had him (I didn't really wish that, just at 3am when he's still screaming and I haven't slept, I'd find myself sobbing wondering why the hell I had another baby). I never feel like that now, he's still really demanding, he still doesn't sleep, I still get no time to myself BUT he has his own little personality emerging and he such a lovely lovely baby, he's very smiley (when not screaming) and very sociable.
Yesterday he was waving at the table eating his dinner with a massive grin on his face and giggling. I love him to bits but it took a while.
I hate breastfeeding and I hate co-sleeping but it's the easiest option by far and there's no way I could stop either before DS is ready. I have now accepted that this is what he needs and it won't last forever! For now I have learnt to just go with it and I'm much less stressed and get more sleep.

ilikemysleep Sat 16-Mar-13 12:20:12

My DD was like this, she was up up to 9 times a night, we co-slept through necessity and she wanted to BF all night, wouldn't take a bottle. We did get her on bottles eventually, once I went back to work, at nursery - I know that all except my first son ( i have 4) rejected those clear silicon teats and much preferred latex (the brown ones) for both bottles and dummies, and both my boys were bottle refusers until they had playtex bottles (hard to find, but well known as useful for fussy babies) and my daughter would only use adiri breast-shaped bottles - the whole top squishes like a breast - they do leak a bit sometimes and are pricey but honestly by that stage I didn't care!
www.amazon.co.uk/Playtex-Drop-Ins-Original-Nurser-Bottle/dp/B001F0RAC0/ref=sr_1_1?s=baby&ie=UTF8&qid=1363435811&sr=1-1
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00143Z9EO/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0018BY2EU&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=11X7H5A3Y13TX18JDZPS
The other thing that saved my sanity was moving her into her own room and buying a lights-and-sounds mobile that is triggered immediately she cries. My daughter likes the music ones and hers is a Winnie the Pooh one, but you can also get white noise makers, ocean sounds etc. Then we used it religously as part of her bedtime routine and it came on in the night when she cried. I am not going to lie to you and say that she immediately slept through but it did get a lot better - it went down to about 2 or 3 times a night, then once or twice...I continued a quick night time breastfeed if she continued crying and wouldn't settle until she was almost 2 (!) and then spent a few difficult nights refusing her the breast, by then she was able to understand better and now she is almost 3 and has been sleeping through virtually every night (barring illness or nightmares) for the past almost year. She still has her lights and sounds mobile, it's cost us a fortune in batteries, and she has a dummy (didn't take it until she was about 18 months, but none of mine took dummies when they were tiny - they were 8 months, 6 months, 11 months and 18 months respectively, and all off with no problems aged just 3).

Best of luck, I remember that strange co-sleeping half sleep so well....

bigkidsdidit Sat 16-Mar-13 12:30:32

mine also woke every hour till I night weaned.

hope you got some sleep this morning

pipsqueakz Sat 16-Mar-13 15:27:40

Hope all is okay and you have has some form of rest! try get some mummy time for a nice bath with candles and a good book for a bit, recondition your batteries.
You will get there hun try not to despair! I know it's difficult but it will get easier in time. It can be so frustrating when they cry but they have no other way of telling you. Get that app at GP Monday you will soon find you and lil princess will get easier. GP or health visitor will 'look outside the box' and something will help. Bless you,
Take Care keep us updated!

smile x

Pigsmummy Sat 16-Mar-13 16:06:03

Have you seen a cranial osteopath? Last resort, sorry can't think of anything else. Tiredness sucks and big sympathy to you xx

stargirl1701 Sat 16-Mar-13 16:11:32

Hi. My DD is the same but ff. She has silent reflux, eczema and may also have CMPI. We are waiting for a paeds appt on 3rd April. She sees a chiropractor too - for skull plate asymmetry. It's bloody hard and not what I imagined having a baby would be like at all.

Is your HV supportive?

undercoverSAHM Sat 16-Mar-13 17:39:32

I just wanted to give you virtual support. It's tough. So tough. It WILL pass. As someone else said, try putting her in her cot now and again and having a break with the door shut (assuming she is clean and fed). Even half an hour. She really won't come to any harm. If you feel bad for the neighbours doing it at night then maybe go and talk to them and see if they are going away at all over Easter. Or perhaps you will find they won't mind too much if they have warning of a couple of bad nights to be followed by (fingers crossed) peace. Also, I second seeing the GP to rule out anything other than a proper little madam (as my DD was...).

Oh, and YES, the mobile that goes off when the baby starts to cry. Unbelievably brilliant...

loopylou6 Sat 16-Mar-13 18:07:14

She sounds like she might be a bit hungry, what did she eat in the daytime? Can you try keeping her awake till 8/9 pm and feed her some porridge or wheetabix before bed? If she GA a Fuller belly it might help her settle better. Hugs to you x

loopylou6 Sat 16-Mar-13 18:08:21

If she has*

ToomuchWaternotWine Sat 16-Mar-13 18:38:06

Another one coming on to say a friend had similar problems to you with her bf baby, yep, turned out to be a dairy allergy, once she (and lord, giving up milky tea for her was the biggest sacrifice of motherhood!) and baby were dairy free, things got a lot better. Not perfect, but a lot, lot better. So worth checking?

It's ok to feel those feelings, if you didn't you would have to be a robot. Sleep deprivation is the worst.

ditziness Sat 16-Mar-13 18:42:26

hello all.

Just put her to bed now.

Dinner of chicken fajitas (nibbled and sucked) and a bowl of porridge at 5pm. Bath at six, calpol in bath (as she's teething on and off and wanted to rule it out) breastfed after, predictably fell asleep while feeding her.
Woke her up to get her in pyjamas and nappy, and then gave her a cup of milk, which she refused and read her a story, that she liked. Put her lullaby CD on and gave her a cuddle, put her in her hammock and rock her gently, said night night and left the room. She cried for five minutes, so went back in and rocked her again and sang hushaby mountain and went to sleep.

This is pretty typical. Although about half an hour early tonight as she was overtired after last night.

fingers crossed as always that she will stay asleep.

Going to sleep in the living room tonight and leave my husband to it.

going to read back thru thread now and answer questions.

Thanks for all the support , makes me feel less crazy

Mosschopz Sat 16-Mar-13 18:44:13

We had this with DS. Absolute nightmare. 8-10 times per night between 3-6 months. Had to get my parents over to help and cold-turkey him off the breast and onto bottle in the end...2-3 hard days/nights then he really settled. Happy to tell you what we did if it helps.

ditziness Sat 16-Mar-13 18:56:44

stop bf - don't really want to :-( she's only ten months . That doesn't sit wel with me. I'd rather night wean her.

muslin - Just given her one tonight, with the corner soaked in breast milk

scratch mits - will give that a go later when she starts pinching

music - already use the same CD every bedtime and everytime she wakes up.

sleep consultants - tempting, my friend did this. but i suspect they'll just tell me to do cc and i don;t know if i've got the heart or stomach for it. never say never though

dummy - might try this. my son sucked his thumb, still does. she doesn't do anything but breast feed. Maybe she needs something to comfort her

teeth - she got a couple of teeth a fortnight ago. She's not obviously teething at the moment, but i guess it could be the case. I usually give her some calpol if all else fails

dairy allergy - my son had CMPI and she doesn't have any of the symptoms he had and had had no reaction to anything she's eaten. With him it was pretty obvious as he had green diahrea, excema and threw up if he had any dairy. She has been rubbing her nose recently. But then she's had a pretty much permenant cold too.

latex teats - spent a small fortune on bottles and cups recently..... another one to try!

breastflow bottle - ditto

light and sounds mobile that is triggered by crying - link?

white noise - tried it to no effect. will revisit. worked a treat on my son

cranial oesteopath - not tried it

HV - will try

A big issue is that she's still in our room as we're needing building work done and her room isn't ready yet. She was going to go in with my son, but he sleeps so well and is so happy just now, I don;t think it's fair on him.

anything else I've missed

Thanks so much x

MmeThenardier Sat 16-Mar-13 19:03:20

Is she getting enough calories in the day? If not she may be waking at night hungry. Remember if she's just having a bit of a nibble on some fajitas thats not as much energy as a big bottle/boob of milk.

Have you had her weighed lately? Is she gaining weight? This could give you a clue.

I've been where you are. It will pass.

Will she take a dummy?

I know people have suggested allergies but if she's happy enough in the day this seems unlikely.

OP I would post in the sleep section where there are lots of people going through similar things and others who regularly post advice about sleep issues.

Good luck, I know its literally torture but you will look back and it will just be a memory xx

bigkidsdidit Sat 16-Mar-13 19:05:24

you don't need to give up bf! What I did was specify a time that I wasn't going to feed him between at night. So I'd feed loads in the day, and a big feed at bedtime which was 7pm. Then I would not feed him till 11, and DH did all wakings. 11-12 ish I'd feed again, then not till 4am.

Gradually he stopped waking so much, then I started making the night feeds quicker, 2 minutes then 1 etc, all while feeding loads during the day and giving him banana / avocado etc before bed to fill him up. Then he slept through and has done ever since, bar illness.

I went to a CO too and it didn't affect his sleep, unfortunately, although I know a lot of people love them.

Beamur Sat 16-Mar-13 19:14:30

My DD stayed in our room until she was 14 months because her room wasn't ready either! I was on my knees with tiredness, but being in her own room really made a difference. Good luck with all the tips you've been given - hope you find a way to get your baby (and you) to have a peaceful nights sleep.

ditziness Sat 16-Mar-13 19:15:08

nibble of fajitas AND a big bowl of porridge. she ate loads today in general. and breast feed every couple of hours.

weight, yeah she's perfect, following the same centile line since birth.

haven't tried a dummy, i might. although to be honest, it seems unlikely as she won't put any kind of teat in her mouth. She seems a bit fussy, it took her ages to latch properly when she was newborn, used to throw up a lot, and when i started weaning her she has a very sensitive gag reflex and has taken very slowly to eating in big amounts, She only in the past month let my spoon feed her. Although she still has to check each spoonful with her fingers before open her mouth for it. Very choosy with which cups she'll drink water out of too, and usually spits most of each mouthful out.

That's what i'm trying to do big kid. But she just screams so much and wakes so often and i'm so tired I end up cracking and feeding her and she shuts up and we can all sleep

ilikemysleep Sat 16-Mar-13 19:17:02
MmeThenardier Sat 16-Mar-13 19:25:41

So if you give her calpol does she sleep then?

WitchOfEndor Sat 16-Mar-13 19:26:42

Try putting you DC in their own room and if they wake in the night send DH in with a bottle or just to shush to sleep. Once they realise that boob is not forthcoming then they don't bother to wake so much. Either start this on a Thursday or Friday night so your DH can recover over the weekend or get him to take some time off. If that still doesn't work try cranial osteopathy.

tethersend Sat 16-Mar-13 19:27:42

Oh Christ, are you me?

DD2 is ten motnths, and slept through until 6months when she went mental and stopped.

She has no daytime naps and stays up until about 9pm then wakes 3-4 times until 7am.

I am a husk of my former self.

I took her to the sleep clinic, expecting to be told to do cc, but the HV all but diagnosed obstructive sleep apnoea. Today, the GP referred her to the ENT specialist. Time will tell as to whether we see an improvement, but it really is worth getting her checked out- we feel less angry with her for not sleeping now we know there's a medical reason.

Good luck smile

MmeThenardier Sat 16-Mar-13 19:31:33

I second what witch said. Offer a bottle but send the message that boob is for in the day. You could do it over Easter if your dh has some time off for you all to recover

bigkidsdidit Sat 16-Mar-13 19:35:15

it did take about 6 weeks and obviously DH had to be totally and utterly on board too as he did most nights in that time.

the trouble with sleep deprivation is that when it's 3am and you've woken 5 times you just can't think straight and stick to a plan! Partners need to be there to keep each other on board I think.

I have huge sympathy, it is so utterly shite.

midori1999 Sat 16-Mar-13 19:40:42

Ditziness, I'm not going to offer any advice, but I will say that my DD went through the absolute worst of night wakings about 9-10 months. Every hour or more and we did cosleep because it was the only way to get any sleep when she was like that. However, then she just suddenly started sleeping through. I couldn't believe it! So hopefully things will get better for you soon, hang on in there and do what you have to do to get what sleep you can. It sounds like you're doing a great job!

Footface Sat 16-Mar-13 19:47:00

Do she sleep during the day at all, as ds used to get over tired and scream.

Every day for two weeks I put him in the car at the same time and drove around for 40 mins. ( sounds extrem but I was desperate) having him better rested in the day seemed to have a knock on affect at night

leniwhite Sat 16-Mar-13 19:52:10

Not sure if this has been said already but when you move to bottles you should get someone else to give them because if baby can smell you nearby they won't take the bottle and will still demand the boob!

This advice was given to us by the BFing support worker so could help?

candyandyoga Sat 16-Mar-13 20:35:33

The 'stop bf' and 'give a bottle' suggestions are very ignorant and annoying. Op has clearly stated she doesn't want to give up bf and bf will help her baby immensely with teething as it is.

Op please talk to a trained bf support lady who can advise you how best to approach how and when to bf. good luck and let us know how you are.

Offcolour Sat 16-Mar-13 21:03:34

Hi ditzi, just came back to this and noticed you weren't keen on sleep consultants because you don't want to do cc or CIO. I was exactly the same, also b-feeding every hour or so during the night and didn't want to do cc. I stated this to the consultant and she advised gradual withdrawal, there was some crying (maybe for 20 mins the first two or three sleeps) but I was in the room shushing and patting her and she could see I was there, so it didn't seem too awful. My expectations were just that she would wake once or twice a night, I didn't expect her to sleep through, but she did, within 4 weeks and it was really pretty painless. And I continued to b-feed to 20 months.

TreadOnTheCracks Sat 16-Mar-13 21:12:15

I second the Cranial Oestopath suggestion up thread.

My DD was a very difficult baby. A cranial oesteopath transformed her. She slept for 4 whole hours in the day time after our first visit - the longest she had ever slept in one go (night or day). We had 3 visits and it cost approx £30 a visit. She made steady improvement as we went along.

I hope you find a solution soon

Offcolour Sat 16-Mar-13 21:15:00

Nb one of the keys things they suggested was how to organise her day so that we were timing sleeps with her natural rhythms so she wasn't over-tired and fighting sleep. That made a tremendous difference.

WhatTheWaterGaveMe Sat 16-Mar-13 21:26:33

Hi Ditzi

Is baby like this every night?

I know exactly how you feel. I used to sit in the afternoons and just cry because I was so tired. My eyes felt like they were bleeding!

My DD has just turned 1. She still doesn't sleep more than about 3 hours in a row. When she wakes she just rolls around, whines, grabs nipple then rolls back over and goes to sleep. Usually I don't mind but when I'm super tired I feel like screaming at her GET OFF ME!
It is hard.

We had a period where she woke up ALL NIGHT just crying. She HAD to have my nipple in her mouth otherwise she would scream the minute it came out! Within a week she had 5 teeth come through! Do you think she could be teethin?
That's the only thing I could explain that BAD period with!

Good luck xxx

MummytoKatie Sat 16-Mar-13 21:35:12

Dd was a dreadful sleeper from 7 - 13 months. I can remember leaning over the banisters debating whether to just keep going.

The thing we didn't do (which we really should have done) is phone our parents and say "please come - we need help here"l They would have come. They would have helped. But we are not good at asking for help.

Is there anyone you can get to come and help? If they could look after the children during the day (just bringing the baby in for feeds) then you could get some sleep and may feel better enough to have some chance of deciding what is the right thing to do.

girliefriend Sat 16-Mar-13 21:52:52

Sounds like torture sad

When she wakes up does anything else settle her other than bf? My guess is if not then you will have to work on that, so I would bf at 10pm (before I went to bed) and then aim not to bf again until 7am ish. Only offer water and lots of cuddles and reassurance but no feeding.

It will probably take a few more nights of hell but once she works out how to settle herself without a boob in her mouth then her overall sleep should improve.

As for cc it sort if sounds like she is crying a lot anyway so surely wouldn't make that much difference?! With my dd I would leave for 5-10min intervals while I put a pillow over my head regained some strength and then would go back in and reassure. I always knew though that i can not cope without sleep so was quite selfish focused on doing everything in my power to ensure dd did sleep.

Really hope things improve soon.

rollmopses Sat 16-Mar-13 22:01:17

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman Sat 16-Mar-13 22:06:03

roll That's a massive leap you've made there, there is no suggestion that the op can't cope. Opinions like that are best kept to yourself.

MmeThenardier Sat 16-Mar-13 22:08:39

Ignore that unhelpful comment op.

serin Sat 16-Mar-13 22:09:48

Roll, that is one of the cruelist things I have read on MN.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

apostropheuse Sat 16-Mar-13 22:14:42

Rollmopses, that's an incredibly stupid and unhelpful thing to say. The OP is extremely tired and stressed out through lack of sleep, but she knows this and does have a partner who is helping her. She's also seeking solutions and taking advice.

OP I can't add anything further to what's been suggested. I hope tonight's a better night for you.

SchnitzelVonKrumm Sat 16-Mar-13 22:15:29

Rollmopses angry

If baby will take a cup there's no need for a bottle, surely? My DC2 and 3 went straight from breast to cup after DC2 refused to countenance a bottle for anything.

Julezboo Sat 16-Mar-13 22:15:58

Roll clearly hasn't ever been sleep deprived! My ds was cmpi. He's 2 now n still wakes in the night though I think it's habit. If dh goes in he goes back off if I go in he wakes the whole house up!

One thing I will say though is no matter how tired us mums get you plod on through. Can you afford a night in travelodge or similar n leave it to dh? Let you get a full night sleep n then he does the same another day xxx hope it improves for you xx

OliviaMumsnet (MNHQ) Sat 16-Mar-13 22:16:37

Hi there
First off, peace and love all.
Do let us know if you'd like us to move this for you, won't you?

RoseandVioletCreams Sat 16-Mar-13 22:23:49

mine likes something up against her face like my breast ideally but a toy or rolled up blanket then i remove it once she is down.

i think its alot to expect of babies to go from noisy womb all crunched up to suddenly totally flat on thier backs.

swaddling didnt work for us - but i tried a few diff things like putting her proped up on v pillow next to me, so she was slightly elevated but also had that feeling on the sides, of it, in the day tried to put her down in different places so she got used to sleeping anywhere.

at the mo its the thing up agaisnt the face but she can sleep flat now.

poor you op - sleep deprivation is a form of torture.

sad

ReallyTired Sat 16-Mar-13 22:33:22

ditziness
I am sorry you have having such a difficult time. It must feel grim to be constantly woken every night. Sleep deprivation can ruin anyone's mental health.

I feel that you should take your baby to the GP. It might be something a simple an ear infection keeping her awake. Teething is not normally as bad as you describe.

I feel worried about ditziness mental welbeing. (not meant in nasty way) It is shows real desperation to title a thread "I hate my baby". (Although I am sure ditziness doesn't hate her baby. ditziness do you think its possible that you might be suffering from depression induced by extreme sleep deprivation? Prehaps your health visitor or GP might be able to give you some support.

If you want to continue breastfeeding then it might be worth going along to La Leche League meetings to meet like minded people. (Who won't tell you to wean) I think that the book "No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantsey is fanastic.

bangwhizz Sat 16-Mar-13 22:46:32

'Op has clearly stated she doesn't want to give up bf '

yes but it might come to a choice between bf and sleep.

birdsnotbees Sat 16-Mar-13 22:50:49

Hello OP. My DD (now 2) was like this. At 10 months she was refusing to sleep at all without a boob in her mouth (and would wake every time it fell out). We both got no sleep; my DH also thought I had PND but I didn't, I was just murderously tired.

We tried EVERYTHING. And I mean everything. And we checked her out medically too. And as DD refused a bottle and also didn't sleep during the day, and as I also had a DS to look after, I was beyond exhausted. So after I had a (very public) breakdown one day, DH took her into our bedroom (her cot was attached to our bed) and banished me to my DS's room. We stopped the night feeds there and then, just so that I could get some sort of sleep. She went mental, but he stayed with her so that she wasn't alone. And after a long, long time she learned to go to sleep.

There were no quick fixes. We have had to do long bouts of cc, and then when DD has "relapsed" months later, we have had to do it again. I don't like cc. But my DD didn't respond to anything else and as my marriage was on the point of breaking down, my DS was suffering and so was my poor DD, who was angry all the time because she was knackered, cc was our only option. It took months but she gradually got better, and as she started sleeping she also became a happier baby, and me a better mother.

So in brief what worked for us was to stop night feeds, to hand DS over to DH at night (and later to take it in shifts), to have a plan between you about how you will handle it when she wakes up (consistency is key), to try cc, to accept that change would be gradual, and to ask other members of our family for help.

I really do feel for you. If you haven't had such a poor sleeper I don't actually think you can understand just how awful it is - well, I do understand. But it will come to an end. She will learn to sleep. Things will get better. And feeling like you hate your baby is something I remember - feel guilty about - but the level of sleep deprivation you are going through messes with your head. Devise a plan with your DH, write it down and stick to it. Good luck xx

ilovecolinfirth Sat 16-Mar-13 22:52:41

Oh Darling! I experienced something similar with my first one. Ok, so you've not got family close, but can someone stay for a week? My mum stayed over and got up every time my son cried and she rubbed tummy, cuddled, etc. within a few days he learnt to sleep on his own. Husband was useless!

My son never took a bottle. I got him to take a cup by offering it to him every day until he finally took it. I also needed to go out one day without him. I fed him at 7:30, and not again til after 2pm. He survived, so I carried on doing that, but offering the cup frequently.

Loads and loads of love. I know how you're feeling. Be strong, and please get someone to help. X

birdsnotbees Sat 16-Mar-13 22:53:42

She doesn't have to give up bf. But she can give up night feeds. I did for both of mine, at 9 mo and 10 mo respectively.

Tiredallthetime - I think how she feels is perfectly reasonable. That's how I felt. I wasn't depressed. I was exhausted. I did hate my DD. But I still loved her fiercely, I just wanted her to stop waking me up at night - there is a difference. My DH wanted me to go to the GP for PND but I knew I didn't have it, and I knew that the only thing that would help was getting some sleep. Which, sadly, the GP wasn't in a position to help with.

ReallyTired Sat 16-Mar-13 22:56:15

"yes but it might come to a choice between bf and sleep. "

I don't think that giving up breastfeeding is a magic wand to sleep issue. Plenty of babies who have been formula fed from birth have sleep issues. My son did not sleep through unti he was SIX YEARS OLD!!! (I wasn't mad enough to breastfeed him THAT long.)

The OP has to work out what is the right parenting path for her. If she wants to carry on breastfeeding then she might be better to find ways of living with broken nights than fighting it. (aka Nighttime Parenting by William Sears)

There are ways of night weaning. I had some sucess with the Jay Gordon method of night weaning. (Although dd now wakes up for a wee!) I gave dd lots of cuddles but refused to breastfeed her although I did offer her water.

drjaygordon.com/attachment/sleeppattern.html

I think many parents have completely unrealistic expectations about children sleeping through.

candyandyoga Sat 16-Mar-13 22:56:38

Sorry bangwhizz but that is ignorant rubbish. Yes she might need to night wean her baby but it doesn't mean she needs to give up bf completely. I night weaned my children at 12 months and over and kept day bf up until they self weaned (one at two and one at over three)

MagicHouse Sat 16-Mar-13 22:57:21

Hi there - only skimmed through the thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned already. My DD was like this - she had silent reflux (where the baby brings up acid rather than milk). It's really painful. Breastfeeding soothes the pain, but starts another cycle, so it goes on. At its worst, my DD was only sleeping in 45min/ hour stretches all night and day.
HV advice was leave her to cry sad Finally a doctor diagnosed her and prescribed gaviscon. The first night she had it she slept 5 HOURS!!!! She also had ranitidine for a whil and beagn to sleep through. Might not be your dd's case, but definitely worth getting it checked out. (Other symptoms - coughing/ arching after and during feeds/ bad breath)
Good luck. Sleep deprivation is so horrible.

bangwhizz Sat 16-Mar-13 23:00:47

Candyandyoga- well good for you, but you are talking ignorant rubbish if you think that what applies to your child applies to every child.I had to go cold turkey with all 5 of mine

ImagineJL Sat 16-Mar-13 23:04:30

I used the Millpond Sleep Clinic, and they were great. The first thing I said was that I didn't want to do cc, so I didn't. They have other methods they use.

If I remember correctly I had to time a night time feed, then reduce it by a minute every few nights. It's the breast feeding equivalent of reducing milk volume. I was very sceptical but it really worked. One by one the multiple night feeds reduced in frequency, until I was only doing them at 7pm and 5am, which was manageable.

When I went back to work I expressed milk and DS finally took it from a Haberman Feeder bottle which I got from eBay.

Best of luck. I sympathise.

candyandyoga Sat 16-Mar-13 23:05:14

You are talking rubbish bangwhizz if your only unhelpful comment is that the op should stop bf. ridiculous thing to say. End of.

birdsnotbees Sat 16-Mar-13 23:05:32

She really doesn't need to give up bf completely. Night weaning is very do-able; I just stopped with both of mine but carried on bf-ing them during the day until 12 and 18 months. Why would you have to jack it in entirely? That makes no sense to me.

Figgygal Sat 16-Mar-13 23:18:44

Hope you have a better night tonight OP

ditziness Sat 16-Mar-13 23:52:27

thanks everyone. just going to bed. fingers crossed.

thank for the support everyone, it's really good to be understood. i appreciate it. Lots of more good suggestions again, I'll look through them properly tomorrow.

I fed my son till he was 18 months. I really would prefer to keep breastfeeding. just not every hour over night that's all. thanks. By the time my son was my daughter's age he'd given up night feeds.

Are you wanting to move my thread to sleep Olivia?

oh and the comment that everyone thought was nasty had already been deleted when i read. what did it say?

Idocrazythings Sun 17-Mar-13 01:02:27

You already have loads of tips to try, but I wonder if she's maybe a little overstimulated at bed time and getting a bit wound up? Such as was asleep then woken for more milk, nappy, Pjs and story. And/or maybe too used to the sleep aids (cd, hammock); and then when she wakes later can not self settle as is needing those aids?

Could you try slowly removing them, over time not in one night, maybe substituting them with a little patting by you, and then reducing that until its just your presence.

Personally I would avoid introducing a dummy if she hasn't had one yet because, she'll inevitably lose it then wake and you'll have to find it, it's another thing potentially you'll have to remove down the track; they are not that good for teeth and jaw development and you've got this far without it. I'd also avoid the latex teat as they can trigger latex allergy.

I also agree with other posters about keeping up the b/feeding. Just had another thought though- are you drinking extra caffeine/tea/coke to keep on top of your tiredness? If so maybe that's affecting her? Or maybe it's a "stage" and it will pass?

disclaimer. My own DC are crap sleepers- feel free to ignore me if you wish

McGilly Sun 17-Mar-13 02:41:57

Good luck and remember the support. One more thought from the mum of crap sleepers - BFing might be a useful tool to keep in your armoury of tricks for a bit longer . But you decide - you've done amazingly well already and you know yourself and your baby best.

McGilly Sun 17-Mar-13 02:49:14

We have tried cranial osteopaths in past. Expensive, helped some tummy issues in the past but not sleep.
Our 1 yo is still sleeping next to me too, by necessity. I think this is our main night waking issue.
My final solution is no solution - we co- sleep (uncomfortably!), minimise non-essential activities and remember that first two kids were the same. They are now brilliant sleepers.
I do feel for you if you are going back to work. That adds a new stress to the mix. Hang in there!

mathanxiety Sun 17-Mar-13 03:20:55

I second eliminating many elements from the bedtime routine. Maybe move the bath to right after lunch when she wakes from afternoon nap? No need for a story for a 10 month old either. Maybe it would be better to focus on putting her in her cot in a quiet and darkened room and then helping her to relax when she's there.

Is her cot in your room? Would you be able to have it beside your bed so you could avoid having her in your armpit, maybe give her a finger to suck on instead of your boob, or reach out and rock the cot gently or rub he back?

I agree your DH may be able to give her a night time bottle or some comfort in order to facilitate night weaning. Sometimes babies will accept a bottle from a dad or other carer whereas the mother means the breast and the bottle just won't do from that source.

However, I also agree with those suggesting allergies. I weaned my DD1 completely from the breast at about 1 year as she was waking 10 times a night and it was murder. I was a complete zombie and desperate. exH had never really thought much of bfeeding and blamed it for the waking. So I weaned her -- and it didn't help. It was only useful because I found out she was allergic to dairy thanks to formula.

Napsalot Sun 17-Mar-13 03:25:00

Lack of sleep is so tough. Big hugs to you.

My advice:
- come up with your plan for the night with your DH and stay the course as best you can. I have always found I don't make good decisions at 3am when dealing with a cranky baby! Always feel much more in control when we have mapped out a plan and both know what we intended to do when baby woke up next. You can change course if needed but I always feel better being able to go on auto pilot.

- life feels much more manageable after you have had a good nap or even better a good nights sleep. Even though your tiredness is months in the making, one good sleep will do wonders to how you feel. I always think when your sleep deficit is so great it will take forever to feel human again and I am amazed at how better I feel when I finally get a nap.

You will feel better soon.

letsgetreadytoramble Sun 17-Mar-13 03:53:15

I had a bottle refuser and had success eventually with a playtex bottle and latex teat. I have a spare bottle and new teat if you'd like it, along with some inserts, just pm me your address (he takes tommee tippee now thank goodness.)

kungfupannda Sun 17-Mar-13 08:20:56

Not much advice here - I've got one good sleeper and one who's not too bad - but I did notice that you said that she's sleeping in a hammock. DS1 had a hammock until he went into a cot. DS2 slept ina co-sleeper but we used the hammock for when I was up in London (DP works up there during the week so we used to go up for a couple of nights) and on holiday.

DS1 loved the hammock. DS2 never really got on with it. He had a few weeks of sleeping okay in it, and then he started thrashing about and yelling.

The shop we bought ours from, the owner said that although they are supposed to be suitable for up to 12 months, she'd used it for both of her children and found that they stopped sleeping well in it long before that.

Given that she's very close to the upper age limit, is it worth trying a cot? She may just not like the hammock.

lola88 Sun 17-Mar-13 09:54:36

I feel for you and hope you got some sleep. DS was the same and at some point i hated him so much for getting upthen felt so guilty for thinking i hated him, it's a horrible feeling and one that not alot of people in RL will understand or admit to.

When DS was 11mo i'd had enough was going back to work the following week so i got my mum to have him over night then the next night DP went in with water everytime he woke up, the first night he got up 5 times and cried or 30-60 mins the second night it got better and the 3rd he didn't wake til 5am at which time i gave him a feed. He's now 13mo and only gets up once for a feed and has slept 2 nights with no wakenings in the past 2 weeks. He's also a lot happier during the day and sleeps in his cot in his own bedroom all night every night. I couldn't believe how quickly he changed it was amazing even though the first few nights were not good.

Oh and DP took a few days off work at that time so he could be up all night and sleep in the morning

BoffinMum Sun 17-Mar-13 10:15:12

You've had masses of advice here but I wonder if you have thought about putting the baby into daycare ASAP and getting some rest in the daytime before going back to work? Or putting off your return to work by a week or two?

ditziness Sun 17-Mar-13 11:53:06

Thanks everyone again. Slept in the living room last night, and I got 3 hours sleep in a row! The baby was still up 7 times , but DH comforted her, and I just woke when she was going particularly ballistic at 1am for an hour ( neighbours were up for that too :-( heard them up ). So I feel a bit better. Didn't feed her between 11pm and 5 am too so maybe that's progress.

Going to try and do the same again tonight. Poor DH. Altho he has only just got up so he'll survive. :-)

Shall have a look at some of the suggestions later . Continued thanks

Andratx Sun 17-Mar-13 12:02:50

Hi OP,
I am quite convinced that your baby is suffering from Silent Reflux. My baby had this and it is difficult to diagnose, but the treatment does make a big difference.....I think it's worth you having a look at the following link at the least, to see if this rings any bells?

voices.yahoo.com/the-symptoms-silent-reflux-118493.html

What is Silent Reflux?

Silent reflux can be very confusing; there may be no obvious signs of gastro-oesophageal reflux (such as vomiting) and the child generally isn’t ‘silent’.

Silent reflux refers to refluxed material that flows back into the oesophagus, but isn’t forced out of the mouth. The child may swallow it back down or the stomach contents/stomach acids may not come up the oesophagus far enough to be swallowed. It has the potential to cause more damage because it can sit in the oesophagus longer than if the child vomited.

Medical intervention may be necessary because the same complications can arise as in other forms of gastro-oesophageal reflux; however, it may be harder to recognise without any noticeable vomiting. If they feed as a means of soothing their pain i.e are comfort feeders as well, then poor growth may not be an issue, and they may in fact have huge weight gains. This can also contribute to a delay in diagnosis.

Some people mistakenly believe the term ‘silent reflux’ refers to a child who does not cry with their reflux, but this is not the case.

Idocrazythings Sun 17-Mar-13 12:43:22

If you went to a laleche meeting, you'd get all this information from the mothers there and the group leader has extra training and can help advise you too. Face to face is probably better than over the Internet for something like this

Idocrazythings Sun 17-Mar-13 12:45:00

Or even ring there help line and chat to them, because even though your concern is sleep it is linked to feeding; and it would be a shame to give up if you weren't ready to

Downandoutnumbered Sun 17-Mar-13 14:47:13

I really feel for you, OP. I had the same thing - DS was a bottle refuser and a terrible sleeper, and I went back to work when he was 6 months. I was so exhausted I just wanted to die. When he was 9 months we got a night nanny for five nights to night wean him - if you've got space and can afford it, I really recommend that. We sacrificed having a holiday that summer to be able to afford it - think it was about £650.

Horsemad Sun 17-Mar-13 15:15:03

I haven't read through the thread so apologies if I'm repeating someone else's advice but will she drink from a sippy cup?

I b/f both my DC and switched eldest to formula when he was 6mths, but as he wouldn't take a bottle we tried with a cup and he happily dramk that.

Might be worth a try?

girliefriend Sun 17-Mar-13 19:43:41

Whats a baby hammock?

< imagines babys swinging about like pirates confused >

bangwhizz Sun 17-Mar-13 21:20:14

'You are talking rubbish bangwhizz if your only unhelpful comment is that the op should stop bf. ridiculous thing to say. End of. '

who the hell do you think you are with your ''end of'' command, which is tantamount to telling somebody to shut up.I did not say she should stop b'feeding.I said it might come down to a choice between good sleeping habits or b/feeding

ditziness Sun 17-Mar-13 21:55:21

Oh just feeing so guilty tonight. She's such a lovely wee girl , just a wee baby. She looked so serious today. It felt really wrong not feeding her to sleep and cuddling her and stroking her little face. I love her so much. I hope she's ok.

Beamur Sun 17-Mar-13 21:58:23

She will be fine.

McGilly Sun 17-Mar-13 22:05:50

She's lovely because you are a good mum, not in spite of it! Guilt stalks fatigue .... I called my 1 yo a devil this morning ... Up every two hours all night, then awake at 6.30 for school confused. He is feeling great!

Iwillorderthefood Sun 17-Mar-13 22:18:45

Hi, just read through this thread, just got another suggestion to check out. DD2 was a terrible sleeper from birth. We figured out eventually she had terrible glue ear and ear infections and was in a lot of pain. She was dosed up with the maximum of pain relief (GP calculated how much we could give).

Things got really bad when I stopped bf as I went back to work.

She did not really improve until grommets were inserted when she was about 19 months old. It's worth a check.

ditziness Sun 17-Mar-13 22:26:38

Actually the title of this thread is making me so sad. Mnhq, could you change it too " 10 month old sleep issues " and move the thread to sleep?

I feel really really sad tonight

ditziness Sun 17-Mar-13 22:29:27

Yes will ask gp about ear infections and silent reflux.

And will think about everything else too .

She's enjoying holding a muslin , thanks to whoever suggested that.

Yes I want to get her out of the hammock into a cot, just waiting for her room!

ditziness Sun 17-Mar-13 22:31:57

Ps/ thanks for offers of bottles and books. Most kind, I will message you x

Cheddars Sun 17-Mar-13 22:45:32

I found the only way to night wean was to get dh to see to her every night. It took about 4 nights before she got the hint. smile

It was hard on dh because he had work the next day but well worth it in the long run.

Good luck!

cerealqueen Sun 17-Mar-13 22:51:44

OP, I swear you are me , as we all were just before christmas. DD2 waking up screaming 4/5 times a night, just wanting my nipple in her mouth, co-sleeping, exhausted. I could not go to bed early as DD2 was in it and would wake up as soon as I crept in the room and want feeing. I was so miserable and by the end of the week, hated the world and everybody in it. I said screamed some awful things sometimes and was wracked with guilt.

I got lie-ins at weekend so they were better.

DD2 at this stage had never slept in her cot, only in our bed and in the buggy.

We used Millpond, they won't make you do controlled crying if you don't want to do it. We knew what to do before using them but we had lost our way and our confidence and having the phone and email support was great.

It worked so well, she was so ready, she needed to sleep too. She now sleeps 11 hours at night and 2.5 in the day in her cot. We all sleep. I now love my bed again. Please message me if you need any other information or thoughts on it. I wish you well.

Idocrazythings Sun 17-Mar-13 23:01:15

Don't feel bad about your title OP we all know you don't mean it and are just exhausted and stressed. I'd say a lot of us have been there too. I remember pushing dd1s bassinette back and forth on a Sunday night and feeling very anxious that the weekend was over and I'd have the whole week again to deal with her by myself (she was a screamer). At that point I struggled with feelings towards her, of course I loved her, but it was a very difficult time. She's now 7 1/2, absolutely gorgeous, very much loved and loving and blissfully unaware of how difficult it was for me initially. It will pass…

MsAkimbo Mon 18-Mar-13 00:44:42

You sound like a wonderful mum at the end of her tether. I was totally at that point about 2 weeks ago. I told my husband I was ready to leave because my DD would just not sleep. At all. Not joking.

I called a nurse. As my DD is teething, she suggested:

-elevating the mattress of the cot to help balance the pain from her teeth from going to her head.

-putting an unwashed shirt of mine in the cot for her to cuddle with for security.

I'll be damned, she has been going to bed at 7.30 every night and waking up at 6 am a happy little bubble.

You have a lot of great suggestions. Hope something sticks and you get some rest. x

NishiNoUsagi Mon 18-Mar-13 00:57:32

Good luck op, ds1 was an awful sleeper for his first year, then I got pg again quite quickly, couldn't sleep for being uncomfortable, ds2 arrived and is an even worse sleeper, still rarely goes through the night at 18 (18!!) months. On the plus side I've been surviving on 3/4 hours unbroken sleep (and often only 3 or 4 hours a night) for 3 years and I'm still alive! barely

I really hope you find something that works for you, it is soul destroying and I just want to curl up and cry most nights.

ditziness Mon 18-Mar-13 04:05:56

She just doesn't give up. That's another night she's been up every hour screaming for me. That's getting near to a week. Was sleeping in the living room, but DH has just asked me to come and help as he's got to get up for work in 2and a half hours. She just doesn't get the message. :-(

Tortoiseonthehalfshell Mon 18-Mar-13 04:55:28

It's a sleep regression, lovely OP. It's horrible and awful but it's a sleep regression. You do what you need to do to all stay sane (i.e., you take half the night and your DH take the other half, alternate naps on weekends, co-sleep if it works better or don't if it doesn't, etc) and worry about habits and patterns later, I think.

Can anyone come and take her for a couple of hours later today so you can have a nap? Your mum or anyone?

ditziness Mon 18-Mar-13 05:24:06

That's her up again. Just feeding her these last two times now as I don't want her to wake DH. So tired and fed up:-( feel like I 'be ruined all the weekends work by feeding her

ditziness Mon 18-Mar-13 05:25:09

No family near. Could ask friends, but have a thre year old too

MmeThenardier Mon 18-Mar-13 09:38:22

Sadness, guilt and a title that wasn't exactly what you meant - its the exhaustion. Anyone who has been there knows that it actually messes with your head.

You are going to come out of the other side of this OP and you're doing a great job of just surviving. tortoise is right just get through this by whatever means are necessary. Worry later about routine etc.

If someone has the baby will the three yr old let you sleep if you put on a dvd and lie on the sofa next to him?

Just wondered if you've checked if she's got a temperature? Although as you can see from all the posts that said 'you could be me', she probably isn't ill, but giving you areally hard time which is not unusual.

lagoonhaze Mon 18-Mar-13 10:03:39

I've reported your post asking for change of title so hopefully will get done soon.

Ask your friends for help. I bet they will just didn't want to offer and be seen as interfering.

McGilly Mon 18-Mar-13 10:35:04

Many of us have hated our baby's behaviour OP, or the situation. It does not reflect your feelings for your child. brew

Offcolour Mon 18-Mar-13 10:48:50

Op, really, please consider millpond. They changed our lives. Pm me if you want more info. They are highly recommended by lots of posters on here. Huge sympathy as I know how hard it is, it's like you're losing your mind. It is possible to turn your situation around without giving up breastfeeding or using controlled crying.

lagoonhaze Mon 18-Mar-13 10:53:52

Offcolour would you mind pming me some brief details too? I'm on phone so can't pm you.

Offcolour Mon 18-Mar-13 10:58:40

Lagoon, am on phone too but will pm later.

lagoonhaze Mon 18-Mar-13 11:03:23

Thank you.

waterrat Mon 18-Mar-13 11:43:26

OP I was in your position, weeping at night because I couldn't bear going through it again - baby attached to me for hours, never sleeping.

We used the advice of a Millpond trained HV - they also have a book - it did involve a bit of crying, but much less crying than was going on while he was up all night in our bed! We didn't have to leave the room - you stay and soothe them while not feeding. I also read No Cry Sleep Solution - it helped me mentally but wasn't practically quite so usuful.

One really helpful tip from NCSS - write down your aims and be clear what you hope to achieve - that really, really helped. So rather than think 'oh god I want sleep' - you can think right I want this baby to go 4 hours between feeds at night, and if they wake any other time, I will comfort any way but feeding - (rocking, cuddling, patting while they lay in the cot/ singing etc) - it does work honestly. and because you have set realistic aims, they are easier.

Yes your baby might cry and scream because they are used to the boob to settle them - but once they learn to fall asleep without it they will be much, much more contented, I promise you.

Within a few days we saw a result - no, it wasnt that thing 'oh a few hours of crying then he slept through' but he did sleep longer chunks and we completely stopped bringing him into our bed - if he needed us, we took turns sleeping on his floor next to the cot.

He was sleeping better, he was calmer, - I stopped BF at night at about 9 months? It was much easier than I expected and he started sleeping through at that point...not always, but frequently....

The important thing to remember is that it is okay to want to sleep. You matter too. And your baby can get love and reassurance from you without feeding all night long.

waterrat Mon 18-Mar-13 11:44:44

oh and you have not ruined the good work - its fine to go back and forth, you will eventually get the strength and energy to push through.....I went back and forth a lot. I started feeding in the night out of tiredness even after he slept through! I think its a psychological thing inside you - the mother - to really , really trust your child doesn't need the milk and that you can muster the energy to be a bit tough...you will get there

DS3 loved his hammock (is it an amby style - if so they are meant to be good for reflux) but I moved him out at 10 months as he started trying to turn in it and was looking a bit squished.

If you have the cash I would also try cranial osteopathy as it won't do any harm so will either do nothing (my experience) or be miraculous (a couple of friend's experience - especially for unexplained crying - I saw one particular baby daily and the difference was astounding).

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 18-Mar-13 12:37:47

ditziness

Actually the title of this thread is making me so sad. Mnhq, could you change it too " 10 month old sleep issues " and move the thread to sleep?

I feel really really sad tonight

Hi ditziness,

Thanks for the report, we have done this for you now.

Sorry things are so grim sad Good luck.

ditziness Mon 18-Mar-13 14:07:36

Thanks mnhq.

Sorry everyone, I feel so rude, you've all given me so much advice and time and I've not responded to much of it. I'm just so tired. And the kids are running rings round me. And I'm working Wednesday Thursday, have prep to do and am not getting round to it. It's all abit much.

I will sit down and have a proper think soon,

Took dd to the docs today, and doctor thinks she's fine, no issues

ditziness Mon 18-Mar-13 15:46:12

just tried to get her to nap for the last hour without feeding her without success. i don't like her again.

ditziness Mon 18-Mar-13 16:08:29

i guess the problem in having the thread moved in here is that noone looks in here.

just rang the health visitor, but i just feel patronised as they are telling me to suck eggs and mostly just saying to do controlled crying.

really fed up

ditziness Mon 18-Mar-13 16:16:15

the doctor, my sister and the health visitor all asked me today whether I thought i was depressed and I denied it. I have too much good stuff in my life, i'm too fortunate to be depressed But today I'm shouty and weepy and utterly fed up of motherhood and this baby. Dreading tonight and work this week

lagoonhaze Mon 18-Mar-13 16:19:37

I bounce between am i depressed or not? I concluded no Im mostly exhausted.

Any H.V that tells you to do controlled crying isnt really respecting the situation and I would ask them for research that shows that controlled crying doesnt do any harm before they recommend such a method.

Pm me for the no cry sleep solution book. Ive alway been to tired to read it but have it on ecopy.

ditziness Mon 18-Mar-13 16:24:24

she didn't say "do controlled crying" but she did say that I just needed to ignore her when she cried and wait till she got the message

lagoonhaze Mon 18-Mar-13 16:33:55

Basically cry it out then !

BoffinMum Mon 18-Mar-13 17:08:54

Do you know what? I think you are a bit depressed, from what you have written here. It might be a good idea to face that possibility. Can you make a double appointment with a sympathetic lady GP and talk it through?

BoffinMum Mon 18-Mar-13 17:10:07

Meant to type 'probably are' not 'are'. I am not a therapist and can't diagnose people! But I have had PND myself and been in denial (like many others).

Offcolour Mon 18-Mar-13 17:39:39

Ditzi, I was the same, weepy, hated my life, wanted to die. Told dh I wanted to die because my life was so miserable, just hours and hours on end reduced to trying to get a baby to sleep. Fits of rage, mostly in the middle of the night. Such dark times. I do wonder now if I had pnd but I actually think it was just the sleep deprivation over a long period, it isn't a form of torture for nothing. You get so confused by all the books and advice you don't know which way is up and every moment is spent worrying about sleep. Once dd started sleeping better I was fine. Obviously I'm not you, but don't underestimate the effect of sleep deprivation on your mental health.

Hopefully you'll get it sorted soon, I think you need to decide on a plan and stick with it. Millpond are great because they give you the plan and then provide email and phone support as you're carrying it out. Sorry to keep banging on about them, I just know what a difference they made to us and I think I share a lot of your feelings about cc and b- feeding. Tell me to shut up if it's not for you! Someone on here recommended them to me after I started a similar thread to yours (i had shaken my fist at dd's face when she wouldn't nap - I was appalled and frightened at how out of control things were getting) and she's slept really well ever since. Hope you have a good night tonight.

Offcolour Mon 18-Mar-13 17:52:29

lagoon have pm-ed you.

TiddlerTiddler Mon 18-Mar-13 18:34:36

Another vote for Millpond here. They spotted my DS's silent reflux due to the pattern of his wakening when they reviewed the diary we kept for them (alseep at 7 well fed etc and screaming again before 9pm for example). They were great. Tweaked my bedtime routine a bit too (we were going back downstairs after bath for last feed). But getting him help for his reflux was key to success. They were very supportive when I sobbed down the phone to them in my first phone call. I was losing my mind through lack of sleep. sad

ditziness Mon 18-Mar-13 19:32:59

I can't afford Millpond tho, haven't got hundreds to spare.

Sounds good though . Thanks

Offcolour Mon 18-Mar-13 20:16:11

Ok, sorry for going on about it. If you like, I'm happy to send you a copy of the plan they did for us. Your dd sounds similar to mine. Might help - a friend of mine used it recently as her ds had a feeding sleep association and it has made a big difference to her ds's sleep. Just on me your email if you want it.

MagicHouse Mon 18-Mar-13 20:29:16

I still wouldn't rule out silent reflux. It's not easy to diagnose. Could you go back to another doctor? Whne my dd was prescribed infant gaviscon it was like a miracle. You can buy it, though I don't think they'll sell it unless your baby is 1 yr or above. To give it, you mix with a feed or else mix up with water and spoon/ syringe in after a breastfeed. It might be worth asking if you could try it if you think her discomfort is somehow linked to feeding. My dd was desperate to feed as it soothed her pain away.

ditziness Tue 19-Mar-13 03:05:28

Still every 45 mins. Nothing makes a difference

McGilly Tue 19-Mar-13 03:34:18

This may not be what you want to hear but my son was the same three months ago and I basically gave up trying to change it. I waited it out, gave him what he wanted. Saved me some emotional energy at least. Three months later he is quite a bit better. It is hideous but I promise you it won't last.

McGilly Tue 19-Mar-13 03:36:45

There is a thread somewhere on MN about "waiting it out not crying it out". I will try and find it. I also recommend the Sears Fussy Baby book although some of the suggestions are definitely not for everyone. But it's good for at least reminding you that lots of babies are l

McGilly Tue 19-Mar-13 03:38:08

There is a thread somewhere on MN about "waiting it out not crying it out". I will try and find it. I also recommend the Sears Fussy Baby book although some of the suggestions are definitely not for everyone. But it's good for at least reminding you that lots of babies are like this and your baby will grow fine, even if they catnap all night.

Offcolour Tue 19-Mar-13 06:43:29

Hi ditzi, sorry you're having such a shitty time. The 45 mind thing is because babies sleep cycles are 45 mins and at the end of 45 they have a brief awakening (adults are the same but with longer cycles). sounds like your dd has learnt to associate going to sleep = boob so every time she comes to the end of a cycle she needs boob to get back to sleep. If you can break the sleep association so she can get back to sleep without help, you'll get longer chunks. She's probably also in a sleep regression which will makes things worse. The plan I sent is designed to break the boob association and teach her how to go to sleep herself - start it when you're ready and feeling you can stick to it and hopefully it will make real difference. Hugs, you sound just like me when I was in the midst of it.

ditziness Tue 19-Mar-13 08:55:39

Too tired To go out in the snow. Main objective to try and not shout at them both too much today

Offcolour Tue 19-Mar-13 09:23:31

Sending flowers, brew and wine in no particular order.

cerealqueen Tue 19-Mar-13 23:47:34

These people do reasonable packages
Babysleepanswers.co.uk

We didn't have the money either for Millpond, and it was Christmas and we were so so desperate. They might stagger payment - we did over a couple of months.

I had a 3 yr at that stage too, we were all suffering so I really feel your pain.

There was a thread on here by Nectarina's on gradual retreat - could you try that? Will try and find a link.

cerealqueen Tue 19-Mar-13 23:55:08

Right, found but can't link as on phone. Search for 'Nectarina's' in the search facility on talk and it will come up, called 'what worked for us', originally posted in Jan 2012.

Hope you get some sleep soon.

Offcolour Wed 20-Mar-13 19:46:16

How's it going ditzi?

cerealqueen Wed 20-Mar-13 21:46:21
ditziness Thu 21-Mar-13 03:11:28

Thanks.

It's still rubbish. She's been up five times already tonight. I hate it so much. DS has gastroenteritis. We're quarantined. I'm not sure how I'm going to cope all day with them tomorrow. And then doing a night shift tomorrow

ditziness Thu 21-Mar-13 03:15:19

DS is waking up now when she's screaming and getting upset. DH and I are getting pissed off with each other, taking it in turns to sleep in the living room. It's rubbish. I want my bed and husband back. Had enough if this noisy demanding baby

Offcolour Thu 21-Mar-13 05:46:54

Oh you poor things. Can you try to get some strength back before tackling it? Maybe get someone to take the dc for a few hours in the day so you can get some sleep? Then make a plan with dh and stick to it. is there someone to take ds overnight the first few nights of tackling it?

I hope ds gets better soon.

ditziness Thu 21-Mar-13 06:00:46

Ds has been up screaming since 3 am now. He's even worse than DD. it's not fair, he's been sleeping so well for months now.

Offcolour Thu 21-Mar-13 07:09:50

If he's sick he'll go back to sleeping ok once he's better, do whatever it takes to get through this then be firm about re-establishing routines etc when he's better. Is there anyone in rl who can help you today?

Napsalot Fri 22-Mar-13 00:12:39

So sorry that things are still so hard. I agree that if DS is sick he will get back to his routine when he feels better so don't fret about that. How about perching DS in front of TV for the day.

I agree up thread with having a written plan to get you through each night. I really helps to clarify things when you are sleepy and means you don't have to make decisions in the middle of the night.

Really hoping things get better for you soon, just take it one hour at a time.

Napsalot Fri 22-Mar-13 02:47:15

Have been thinking abut you and what else might help.... Don't have any great advice to solve the sleep challenges but I would recommend trying to save your energy wherever you can esp now that you are working. Don't worry if the washing piles up or you are not on top of everything. If you can put your feet up whenever possible this will give you more energy to deal with things. Even just a few minutes here and there. I know it is easier said than done.... I really feel for you -my 3 yr old had gastro the other day and I have an 8 month old and no family near by. Throw in lack of sleep and it is exhausting.

ditziness Mon 25-Mar-13 05:15:41

Still her, still fed up.

Last two nights we've tried moving her into my 3 year old's room. , to see if that would help. She's still waking up every two hourly. I'm confused as to whether I keep her here or not. Part if me says she needs to there linger to sete and feel good in the space. But then u also think that she's getting responded too far quicker as I'm trying to stop her waking the three year old. Which means it's back to me doing it all as my husband doesn't respond till she's screaming. Feel it's really unfair on my son too, he sleeps soi well. It's heartbreaking seeing him get woken up all night too. I also don't want to have to cope with his tiredness all day

ditziness Mon 25-Mar-13 05:16:48

Sorry for typos. Tired brain on iPhone

cerealqueen Mon 25-Mar-13 09:28:26

Did you get a chance to look at Nectarina's thread for gradual withdrawal? You coud try it and we could be your support while you do it?

ditziness Mon 25-Mar-13 18:09:15

Thanks, but it wouldn't work until we have a room
To put her in. X

cerealqueen Mon 25-Mar-13 18:24:48

We did it with DD1 when she was in our room at 9months. Controlled crying with DD2 at 13 months, still in our room but we did sleep downstairs on sofabed while we did it.

Napsalot Tue 26-Mar-13 23:02:42

How are you doing today ditziness?

BoffinMum Wed 27-Mar-13 07:59:21

Ditziness can you leave her in your room and you both sleep in living room??

ditziness Thu 28-Mar-13 04:03:33

Only enough room for one of us biff. I just don't see how sleep train

ditziness Thu 28-Mar-13 04:06:05

Inge is possible without her room

Every 45 mins again tonight. I've got a rotten cough and cold and I've given up and she's in bed with me. Doesn't make any difference tho. She still won't fucking go to sleep. Help.

cerealqueen Thu 28-Mar-13 22:29:44

You are going to have to sleep train her if you want any respite, situation won't get any better on its own.

Could you put a curtain across / screen off the bit of room where she is? That was suggested to us, quite common apparently as lots of families sleep train with a baby in the parents room?

Napsalot Fri 29-Mar-13 05:41:27

A curtain across is a good idea.

We did sleep training with DC1 when we were at our wits end - we were rocking to sleep and in the end the endless crying for 3 hours plus while held I figured putting in cot was probably better for all of us as I simply couldn't take it anymore. As tired as I was, I bought a few books on babies sleep, skimmed through them and took on board the parts that felt right to me and I was ok with doing. We ended up buying a video monitor and going in and comforting (shhhh patting) DC at regular intervals. I felt ok as I could constantly watch on the monitor so knew DC was safe. It was very hard but I knew the way we were going I couldn't sustain that either so something had to change. I studied the books furiously during this time to distract myself. We didn't have overnight success but it got better and better (I also wrote everything down so I could see if we were making progress -DH and I also agreed on a plan at the start off each night so we weren't trying to come up with ideas at 3am when we were bone tired). After about 3 weeks my DC started sleeping soundly and really being able to self soothe during the night. This was 2.5 years ago and since then DC has only woken during he night when ill.

I know you have another DC to keep in mind but my point is something has to change. Perhaps get a sound machine for both DC's to block out the crying as best possible so DC1 doesn't wake? ( A few weeks ago we had our family staying with my brothers family -4 DC's including 2 newborns in rooms all next to each other and thin walls. We all used sound machines to limit them waking each other up and it worked well).

Hope you feel better soon.

ditziness Tue 02-Apr-13 01:45:57

I hate this baby

detoxlatte Tue 02-Apr-13 02:23:46

Oh you poor thing, OP.

It is clear to me that "I hate this baby" is not you speaking, it's a drained dry version of yourself. Please do not take your feelings of resentment towards DC seriously enough to let them get you even more down; if you were to have a single, whole night of sleep you would not feel that way towards her. Your earlier posts are proof of this.

Also, I know how difficult it is to contemplate anything positive or optimistic or even novel when you're exhausted. You kind of get in a rut of doing the same things and thinking the same things, because you have no strength to do anything other than function on auto-pilot.

But something has to change. If it doesn't this will just go on.

Your priorities need to change temporarily because your needs have changed: SLEEP is the most important thing right now.

Can you make financial compromises anywhere to get some cash together to see a specialist?

Can you get DH to take two days off work, leave DCs with him and sleep at a friend's house and then let him do the same the next day? (Can you express enough?).

Stay strong. I wish you all the support you need.

Offcolour Tue 02-Apr-13 12:15:44

Ditzi, sorry it's all still so rough. Detox is right though, you're going to have to do something or nothing will change. You and dh are the only ones who can sort it out, everyone else can offer advice but no-one can fix this but you.

Can you speak to the Gp/hv and ask if they can refer you to a sleep specialist? I think someone up thread mentioned a millpond trained hv, can you investigate if anything is available in your area? Or is there anyway you can cut back anywhere to afford a consultant?

I get the feeling that you're so ground down that you can't see a way out and are finding reasons why none of the suggestions work (I mean this kindly, I was the same when dd wouldn't sleep) but you really have to decide on a plan and stick to it or nothing will improve.

Stay strong, you can get through this phase.

tethersend Tue 02-Apr-13 12:28:55

Sorry if I'm repeating anything, but have you had her checked for tongue tie?

DD had undiagnosed tongue tie which meant she fed constantly but could never get enough milk to fill her up. She had it snipped at 8mo.

Some if the things you said about her feeding when tiny made me wonder... Have a look at Milk matters

ditziness Thu 04-Apr-13 02:56:52

Thanks all.

Just never ending. We've all chest infections now. Her sleeping's atrocious. I've given up and got her in bed with me again because two weeks or however long of not feeding to sleep had achieved nothing but no sleep for any of us.

Prioritising the building work financially to create her her own room . Can't bear the hell if sleep training her in own bedroom, and then potentially having to do it again and again, and the settle her in room and cot and do it again.

It's like war.

Offcolour Thu 04-Apr-13 14:34:46

Oh no, you poor things!

I guess if you can't sleep train right now I'd just batten down the hatches, try to get as much sleep as possible however possible, enlist as much help from family/friends as possible, get the building work done ASAP and work on your plan so that you know exactly what to do once she's in her own room.

We did the same - we were living in a flat and we didn't sleep train until we were moved into our new house because it was too stressful to start until we were all sorted.

detoxlatte Thu 04-Apr-13 21:24:43

I agree, best to batten down the hatches and give up until the building work is done.

I find that lowering (to the point of 'can't get any lower') my expectations often helps in this sort of situation. It means I suffer no disappointment or anger, and - on the odd occasion - can even laugh at how rubbish life can be sometimes.

Your war analogy sounds like a good one, btw. Remember, even wars come to an end: she will give up in the end, because even she can't keep this up forever.

Good luck, OP, you have my sympathy.

cerealqueen Fri 05-Apr-13 00:00:16

Still here listening and hand holding, I used to say some truly dreadful things to DD2 blush but it wasn't me, it was the sleep deprived harridan I had become. By the end of the week I was full of rage.
I hope you can sort bedrooms soon, do you own, could you add to mortgage to do the work?

Offcolour Fri 05-Apr-13 07:27:30

If it's a y consolation ditzi, we're having shit sleep here too (although its not got to every 45 mins yet). My ds is about to turn 4 months and his sleep has gone massively down hill - same as dd at that age but not quite as atrocious (yet). I'm shattered and dreading the prospect of this continuing.

Jolsen Thu 25-Apr-13 15:18:37

I read this recently and found it to be difficult but helpful.

A study of 405 mothers -- with infants between 7 months and 36 months old -- showed that babies who followed a nightly bedtime routine went to sleep easier, slept better, and cried out in the middle of the night less often.

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