help me - 15 weeks and will not sleep in the day!

(40 Posts)
wellieboots Tue 26-Feb-13 06:51:18

My DD is 15 weeks and she appears to have decided that sleep in the daytime is for wimps!

If she didn't want to sleep and was happy playing, it would be pretty full on but I could cope. But she is miserable and whingy. When she gets sleep, she is an absolute angel. So I know its the sleep that's making the difference.

Now I can't even get her to sleep with 20 mins of rocking swaying patting jiggling shhing. I have back and mobility issues and as she gets heavier it is more difficult for me to do this - especially when now it doesn't seem to work! The pram used to work but today even that has failed me - took her up to my mums group and she was almost asleep but because she was awake people were talking to her and smiling (which she always responds to!) and telling me that I shouldn't try and get her to sleep. She then went into total meltdown 10 mins later and I ended up having to get a drink with another mum as I just cried because she was so unhappy. I am so tired - if she doesn't get sleep she just cries and cries and I can't put her to sleep anymore - we have tried dummy, cuddling, patting, swaying, shhhing, rocking, pram walks, bouncing, she is swaddled, it just doesn't work any more and I feel like a shit mum because she is so tired.

I have grown to hate bf because I'm just feeding all the time as she's so miserable. I am at risk of injuring myself because of all the carrying and rocking, and now it doesn't even work!

CheddarGorgeous Tue 26-Feb-13 06:58:55

I had a baby exactly the same and the only thing that worked was <whispers> Gina Ford.

She gave up day time sheeping completely by 1.3 though so it was obviously not her thing.

Good luck and huge sympathies, it's so hard when the other mums have ones which sleep for hours in the day!

CheddarGorgeous Tue 26-Feb-13 06:59:11

Sheeping?? Sleeping.

teacher123 Tue 26-Feb-13 17:48:48

I wrote your post when DS was 15 weeks, I was on my bloody knees. I got round it by using Gina's timings and getting him to sleep during the day at set times no matter what. Then I worked on transferring them from the car seat/pram to the cot. White noise good, snooze shade good also. I found daytimes got mug easier once we had meals as well-it gives more shape to the day. It will get better x

MaMaPo Tue 26-Feb-13 17:55:42

OP, I'm afraid I don't have much practical advice as my little one is younger than yours and can still be coerced to feed to sleep if nothing else, but please don't beat yourself up. You're not a shit mother. You're concerned, tired, in pain and you want the best for your baby. That makes you a great mother.

I have heard people rave about swings - could you try one of those? Preferably on loan from someone so you can give it back if it doesn't work. One thing I have found with my baby when she gets overtired is that she needs quite a bit of physical input to calm down - swaddling isn't enough. The other day I tried lying next to her on my bed, putting both arms around her quite firmly indeed (being careful not to hurt her, but as firmly as you can) and breathing slowly and loudly next to her ear. It sounds bizarre but it did calm her down and as her breathing slowed down she dropped off. Worth a try?

I'm assuming you're looking out for her tired signs and starting to help her sleep as early as she needs it? I know my baby is very deceptive, and needs me to step in earlier than she'd have you believe.

Anyway, please look after yourself and good luck.

wellieboots Thu 28-Feb-13 02:06:45

Thanks all. I think she is more tired than she lets on and that by the time she cries I've probably missed the initial tired signs and she's overtired. It's so hard, sometimes when I'm out and about, sometimes friends take her at sleep time to give me a break, and I get comments like how they've never met one like this and if she wanted to sleep she would have done it by now etc, which makes me feel useless.

LuisGarcia Thu 28-Feb-13 02:11:19

by the time she cries I've probably missed the initial tired signs

Don't look for signs, then. Aim to get her to sleep 90 minutes after she last woke up.

LuisGarcia Thu 28-Feb-13 02:12:41

And it is totally not you being useless. Some of them are hard, and people who haven't had hard ones are idiots about it.

MaMaPo Thu 28-Feb-13 02:49:37

I agree - other people can be monumentally unhelpful. Then again, I met a friend's baby yesterday, who went to sleep but being laid down and patted a couple of times. I couldn't believe my eyes! But my friend would be genuinely baffled by a baby like mine who needs so much help, as our babies are just so different.

wellieboots Thu 28-Feb-13 03:02:13

When I try that, I get people telling me she's not tired and I shouldn't try to put her to sleep. I can't win! think I'm going to have to stay in seclusion for a week or two and protect myself from criticism. except even that doesn't work as I have a mother's help who comes in for 6 hours a week and even she has an opinion - you should feed her to sleep, she's not tired - she's 19 FFS!

wellieboots Thu 28-Feb-13 03:04:03

re feeding to sleep, I would do it if it worked but it doesn't - she only lasts 10 mins and she wakes again!

Ok might not work but I have an 11-12 week old who has phases like this in the daytime...I found out she doesn't like being cuddled to sleep or held when she's tired so when I was trying to get her to sleep by rocking all she wanted to do was be put down by herself. I also found a comforter over her eyes, I stay in the room or watched the video monitor until she falls asleep and then I take it off, really works to block out visual stimulus which sends her to sleep if overtired. Our Ewan the dream sheep helped when I found out she slept well in Moses basket next to the tumble dryer in the kitchen. I also try to follow eat/play for no more than an hour/sleep as soon as the first yawn happens. My baby will not go to sleep unless in her cot or basket at home and I always put her down awake.

The most difficult thing is losing confidence in your parenting because of people in rl telling you what you should be doing, remember you still know best and know your baby better than anyone. Don't worry if it doesn't work one day, babies change their minds a lot. brew.

DD1 was one of those babies that never cried. I put her down to sleep and she slept.

DD2 is also 15 weeks and we cannot get her into a routine with sleep at all. I dont want a strict routine, but some sleep in the day time so shes not over tired would be nice! Today was the worst. She was awake all day. Stimulation from family didnt help (not their fault, they did try to get her to sleep) and then tonight we had proper wailing which doesnt happen too much. Its usually just a normal cry.

My point is that its not YOU. I have had two kinds of baby and I have parented them both exactly the same.

I feed DD2 to sleep. Shes ff though. I find myself sitting on the sofa most days as she will only sleep properly on me. But there are days (like today) when I have things to do and then shes awake too much.

I second the idea of putting her to sleep 90minutes after waking. And stand up to the people who want to chat to her. They might think youre a crazy lady but they arent the ones who have to deal with an overtired baby later! smile

No advice here, sorry sad but wanted you to know you're not alone. DS was exactly this way and DD appears to be following suit, exactly as you describe and with family/friends saying/doing the same. I'm watching to read the replies for tips because my back is so sore from all the bouncing in the sling I do every day, she's a very heavy baby. I go into panic mode when visiting family or having them to us because they seem to think babies need constant loud stimulation and no sleep.. I'm better at taking her back than I was with DS but I'm still too polite for my own good when it comes to setting limits. It's something I must work on because as others have said you know your baby best and what they need, it's not helpful people telling you your baby doesn't need sleep when you have to deal with the state they get into without it.

Don't forget this is a major time for growth spurts, development leaps and of course the 4 month sleep regression - I'm really hoping it's just that and there'll be some resemblance of sanity for us both just around the corner. Hope things improve for you soon smile smile

LuisGarcia Sun 03-Mar-13 00:20:57

How's it going?

ellangirl Sun 03-Mar-13 04:42:42

Sympathise with other people giving well meaning advice! Also with -*nicecupoftea*s experience of people thinking babies need constant. Stimulation and no sleep (ahem MIL).
Read troublesome tots website re white noise and swing. It's really helping my 18 week old. Also totally agree re 90mins awake time- my dd gets so overstimulated quickly and never shows sleepy sight until it's too bloody late and we have meltdown!! My ds was a dream sleeper- so it really isn't you- some babies are just hard work and anyone who says otherwise hasn't had one!

ellangirl Sun 03-Mar-13 04:45:54

Signs, not sight! Typing on phone while feeding!!

kefybaby Sun 03-Mar-13 05:00:13

I fully sympathise with you as well, OP. DD1 was the same and I remember feeling totally desperate and knackered. I tried every trick in the book. Nothing worked!! Then, one day she learned to roll, rolled onto her front and started sleeping (a bit!). Obviously there are health risks attached to this, so only try it of you are there to supervise.
I hope you soon find a solution that works for you and your baby.

wellieboots Mon 11-Mar-13 00:19:50

It's really tough! I feel like a total failure. I cannot get her to sleep if I stay in the house, have to take the pram out, it's the only way! So I am exhausted and if one more person tells me to sleep when the baby sleeps, I will lamp them! I never realised it would get this tough, I even prefer the days when she used to only fall asleep on me - hated them at the time as I couldn't put her down at all, she would wake instantly, but this is absolute hell on earth, I didn't know parenting was this hard! People just tell me to sshhh and pat her til she falls asleep - IT DOESN"T WORK!!! I hate my life

MortifiedAdams Mon 11-Mar-13 00:22:09

Op I always.timed dd. I knew when she woke that 90mins later she would be swaddled and put down to sleep. My dm used to say "ahh she doesnt look tired to me"...lo and behold 5 mins later zzzzzzz.

LuisGarcia Mon 11-Mar-13 00:27:24

You're not a failure. Bad sleepers are ferocious.

Has anything changed since you started this thread?

wellieboots Mon 11-Mar-13 00:32:21

I"ve started trying feed, play, sleep and putting her down swaddled in the crib and sshhhing, patting, stroking, rocking etc after 90 minutes, but IT DOESN"T WORK! Nothing works at the moment other than the pram, it is utterly hideous and she gets grumpy and screamy - I can't do anything in case she has a meltdown, I feel trapped

LuisGarcia Mon 11-Mar-13 00:36:40

Ok, so pram it is for now.

Have you been to your GP?

smile4me Mon 11-Mar-13 01:04:04

OP I could have written your post every time DD hit a wonder week! Please don't feel like a failure cos you're not grin and it's not your fault! I have a friend who has exactly the same problem as you with her DD, so you have lots of sympathy from me My DD wouldn't sleep anywhere other than in my arms from 10-15w, then one day decided that she didn't like to sleep on people anymore and much preferred her cot! I have tried shhh pat too and think it's a total croc, DD just gets more worked up by it. Ewan the sheep definitely helped us, but DD discovering how to suck her thumb was by far and away the biggest miracle sleep maker ever (have you tried a dummy? i never would have said that until I saw the magic of the thumb!) And I'm a total controlling cow over how long she's awake, 90mins then back to bed (maybe try 75mins at 4months though?). Never gives me any tired signs until I'm feeding her just before I'm about to put her down to sleep, then get frantic eye rubbing, so totally ignore anyone who tries to tell you your baby doesn't look tired!

You said she is feeding all the time, is that because she's trying to suck herself to sleep? if she does eventually feed to sleep that way, can you sit with her sleeping on you (opportunity to put your feet up and chill too) for a bit and avoid the wake up as you put her into the cot? Even if it's just once a day, might help her recharge a bit at least.

Does she generally not like lying down or just during the day? Babies with silent reflux often hate lying down (makes the acid come up more) and also overfeed to soothe their throats. Probably totally barking up the wrong tree there, but thought I'd mention it in case.

Also, please don't get upset about her meltdowns in public, although I know how hard that is (been there many times) they are always far worse to your ears than anyone elses!

Sorry for the long post! hope you are going OK!

wellieboots Mon 11-Mar-13 01:21:30

Yes she does have reflux, she is on medication, sorry forgot to mention that. There are good days and horrid days. i went to the GP 7 weeks ago and told him I wasnt coping.He said I should do controlled crying and to come back if I wanted to harm mself or DD so he was a lot of help!confused

wellieboots Mon 11-Mar-13 01:26:12

feed to sleep doesnt work, she drops off for 10 mins max, sleeping on me doesnt work any more, I wish it did!

breadandhoney Mon 11-Mar-13 04:54:44

I'm very sorry to hear you're having such a hard time. Dd1 was like this. From the age of 3-6 months I had to drive her around for every single nap. Couldn't stop the car or she would wake instantly. So I ended up driving round for about 4 hours a day for 3 months. Crazy right ? But I was desperate!! As you say though, hell on earth. Then nighttimes started to become extremely difficult too - waking every hour.

How did we get past it? As soon as 6 month mark hit we started gina ford routine and did controlled crying. Started it at bedtime of day one and she cried for 45 mins in total. Day 2 nap one (in cot!!) she cried for 10 mins. Nap two, no crying! I was overjoyed. After that she slept 7-7 and 2 reliable naps a day every day!! Sounds unbelievable but that's exactly how it was. Couldn't recommend it highly enough.

Dd2 is currently 13 weeks and falling into a similar bad pattern. Can't drive round this time due to toddler ( and promised myself I wouldn't ever ever again!) but she will only nap in car seat so I sit rocking her for upwards of an hour every tine. I must be fling something wrong but I wish someone could tell me what it is and how to fix it! This tine I think I'll consider cc at 5 month ( for sake of my sanity!) as nighttimes have just taken abaaaad turn.

It won't last forever but u know that's of little help when you're in the thick of it!

Stumbleine Mon 11-Mar-13 11:24:08

OP I am going through exactly the same thing with my 19week old dd at the moment. I've just started a thread. Have had a really shitty morning with her. She's finally 'asleep' on the breast right now. I daren't move as we'll be back to square one. No advice, but some solidarity. smile

sweetpea1112 Mon 11-Mar-13 14:07:01

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with this thanks

The only real advice I can give is the 90min rule. My 15 week old has an hour of activity after waking, then a wind down time which consists of me walking him round in my arms, then I rock him to sleep as we get towards 90mins awake time.

Lots of brew and wine. for you

Sophiathesnowfairy Mon 11-Mar-13 16:25:48

Hi welliboots sory you are having a rough time. Have to say I would recommend GF as well. It might take a couple of weeks of staying at home, getting your teeth and sticking to it but it should help.

It could be she is actually getting overstimulated, and all the coking won't help. Also you obviously physically can't carry on so you are going o need to try something hard core.

Sophiathesnowfairy Mon 11-Mar-13 16:28:23

Sorry about typos, one handed as usual.

All four of mine GF babies and all very different children but it does work.

Sophiathesnowfairy Mon 11-Mar-13 16:31:29

Oh, and ignore other people and do what you feel is right. I am always getting oh he's not tired about DS1 when I go to put I'm to bed at 7. I think " hold on, who's on charge, 2.5 yr old or mummy"

teacher123 Mon 11-Mar-13 17:08:33

DS was JUST the same at about the same age and it was truly truly hideous. I would walk up and down the riverbank sobbing on the It finally fell more into place at about 5 months. We tackled self settling at bedtime first and then worked on transferring his naps from the pushchair and carseat to the cot. I was a bit hard hearted though and wasn't averse to a bit of crying-I figured he was already doing shed loads of that because he was overtired. Don't despair! This is speaking as someone who has just been diagnosed with PND and anxiety so I should heed my own advice! The first time DS had a proper nap at home he was about 5mo. I sat on the landing outside his room too scared to move in case it woke him up! It WILL GET BETTER x x

rootypig Mon 11-Mar-13 22:13:45

Would second Luis and Sophia on the 90 minute rule - first nap 90 mins after waking, regardless of how awake or otherwise DD seems. that helped me to break the cycle of overtiredness that then dogged her later naps / night time settling....she got easier to settle and stayed asleep longer the less tired she was backwards baby logic. I had to stay at home for a couple of weeks to crack it, so I could whisk her into her cot regularly.

the other thing that worked for us was being religious about only using her cot for sleep. when she was a couple of months she just didn't seem to know that she was supposed to sleep, iyswim! so I worked on trying to give her really clear cues. bedtime routine etc.

sorry if any of that is granny sucking eggs stuff / completely useless because it still doesn't help you actually get her to sleep! just didn't want to read and run. good luck. not sleeping is the toughest thing. if none of this is working please do ask DP / parents / good friend / anyone who will stop long enough to listen to take DC for a morning or afternoon so you can rest. I regularly do this at the weekends and the more I do it, the less guilty I feel! grin

Contradictionincarnate Tue 12-Mar-13 00:16:43

my dd is 14 weeks can't think of much that would help but she is very similar and will simply stay up all day normally its only the boob that will calm her... will watch for further replies with interest!

smile4me Tue 12-Mar-13 01:07:37

Have her reflux med doses been upped since she started? she will be growing so fast that doses need to be kept up to her weight or it won't work so well. Many people find they stop working so well after the first couple of weeks too so maybe time to change them slightly (depends on what she's on at the moment). Maybe have a chat to GP about increasing dose (go to see a different GP in practice if you can, the other one sounds like a nobber!)

LovelyWeatherForDucks Thu 14-Mar-13 11:36:00

I've had (and posted!) almost the same problem. Agree with others on the 90 min awake time 'rule'. Even with no tired signs. And better to start getting them to sleep too soon than too late. With my DS (20 weeks now, sleep went downhill at 14 weeks ish) the thing to send him to sleep literally changes by the week...last week he didn't want to be held to sleep, he just shouted and wriggled, so I shh/patted him in his cot. This week I hold him on his side in my arms and bounce/rock/shh. Sometime he'll like his sling for naps, sometimes not. Sometimes he'll have a few days of happily falling asleep in his pram while walking, some weeks he won't. They are fickle creatures! What I'm trying to say is don't give up - I know how rubbish it is feeling like you spend all day getting them to sleep! Good luck smile

cleoowen Thu 14-Mar-13 11:42:44

Where are you trying to get her to sleep? I had this problem with my little one and after Weeks of trying to get him to nap in his Moses upstairs, we got a new Moses with a good and put it downstairs with some noise and he sleeps very well.now.

tinydinosnore Thu 14-Mar-13 23:16:33

So nice relieving to hear that other people are having the same sorts of issues. It's so harsh when most of the other mothers I know seem to have little angels who drift off peacefully on their own. Or that's their story! envy

I figured out about 6 weeks that he'd take a nap if I pushed him in the pram. I realise having read some of the threads that I'm really lucky for this at all but that's my life: pram pushing. On the plus side, you can combine this with some other activities, unlike if they'll only sleep on you on the couch! Problem is, I'm getting pretty jittery as he's 16 weeks and nearly outgrown his carrycot. I don't really want to have him napping 3 times a day in the pushchair, so I tried biting the bullet today and get him to nap in his cot but he screamed, sobbed, wriggled & cried the whole nap time. It's just terrible. If I could rock or feed him to sleep I probably would but he won't have any of it. With his persistence I wonder if CC would even work on him, but I don't really want to try it yet - altho he screams a hellava lot any which way.

He's all wide-eyed, so if we're indoors I have to shut off all stimulation - swaddle / white noise/ blind down / sucks my finger /ssshh pat/ and strangely enough, crinkly paper. Today I also had to cover his eyes because the blind didn't make the room dark enough. That's what I do in the evenings too, but because he's more up for sleeping in the evening, I know it will work out in the end - it takes anything from 20 mins to an hour.

teacher123 you said you'd worked on transferring your DC from pram to cot - how has that worked out? I think that might be a good interim step. I'd be really interested to hear.

Has anyone used a vibrating cot mattress pad? Would I be setting myself up for future problems if he got used to one. He just seems to love the pram movement so much...

Contradictionincarnate Thu 21-Mar-13 23:53:12

I tried the 90 min thing ....does not work for dd and depressed the hell out of me!
think we will kinda carry on as we are for now ...if she won't sleep In the day then I will just cope for now rather than make us both unhappy after seeing bedtime live I'm resolved never to try controlled crying!

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