sleep training when noise is not an option? please help, feeling like this is ruining my life

(36 Posts)
used2bthin Thu 07-Feb-13 01:55:58

I know how dramatic I sound but dd2 has never slept well and it is making me depressed. Dd 1 has sn and I can't have her woken. And. We live in flats with a not very sympathetic neighbour.

She is 7.5 months and waking every two hours minimum with periods of every twenty mins screaming and sitting up. She keeps her eyes shut and doesn't stop till I feed her. Except in the twenty min phases where someones the dummy will do. She is same whether in my bed or in the cot.

Dh sleeps downstairs so I can safely put her in with me and so he doesn't wake her by snoring, I barely see him even in the evening as she rarely settles for long enough. This is ridiculous we are all shattered including her.

TanteRose Thu 07-Feb-13 02:01:01

are you breastfeeding?

why wait 20 mins before feeding her?

I know its hard, but its not forever (my DD fed every two hours, night and day for the first year)

used2bthin Thu 07-Feb-13 02:11:59

Sorry I didn't word it well. She wants to feed two hourly but in between will sometimes have periods of waking more often for the dummy. I feel she should be able to go longer th an two hours though and am becoming exhausted and resentful tbh,awful as that is. If it was consistent that she'd settle with a feed every tow hours it may be doable. She is generally screaming in her sleep so I often get her out to feed her then think this is mad she is asleep!

TanteRose Thu 07-Feb-13 02:18:46

hmm, well, usually I advise co-sleeping - even if its just for a couple of weeks, so everyone can catch up on their sleep

used2bthin Thu 07-Feb-13 03:45:13

Up again. She's in with me but screaming badly till I started feeding. She last fed an hour and a half ago. I am dreading the day.

IcanandIwill Thu 07-Feb-13 04:09:18

I can't offer any advice but am looking for a similar solution! DS is 10 months and does the crying but not awake or only half awake thing.

used2bthin Thu 07-Feb-13 04:30:41

Awful isn't it. I am up feeding again. To fight is worse than usual I've not been able to sleep since I last posted as she's spat the dummy out and screamed every five to tendons. Maybe it's teeth but a m sick of finding reasons for it when she's never slept much better. In two and half hours dd1 will be up and I will start the daily battle to dress her, get her to school etc m. She has autism and everything is very hard work with her. I can't keep this up am wondering if I should try giving up breast feeding but that could just leave me with no wa y of settling her.

FergusSingsTheBlues Thu 07-Feb-13 04:47:01

You poor thing. I had a similar problem with a sleepless baby and shitty neighbours. Could you go next door with a packet of ear plugs and bottle of wine and explain? Or go and stay with a parent for a couple of weeks? You need to sort it as the older they are, the harder it is to crack. Might be better overall to give up nigh time bring, could you express before bed and let yr dh share the feeds? I know what it is to have such disruption.

AbbyCat Thu 07-Feb-13 06:14:48

Have you tried the advice from no cry sleep solution? Essentially to break the bf to sleep association you need to stop feeding to sleep. When baby wants to feed you feed but just at tw end of the feed you take nipple out. Baby may root and cry, then you give it back. And repeat. May take several tried per feed but eventually over a few nights baby will be able to sleep without bf. it also advices other methods of getting baby to sleep during the day- rocking, car seat etc. all to break the bf to sleep association. It was a lifeaaver and worked when DS was 14m and waking EVERY HOUR to feed and I was back at work ft and 2m pregnant!!!

AbbyCat Thu 07-Feb-13 06:18:02

Actually at 7.5m, she may still need milk at night anyway? DS was waking twice a night at that stage- he'd sleep from 7-7 but would root for milk around 11, 3 and 5. I think it's only the first stretch of sleep where babies usually go longest.

Fairylea Thu 07-Feb-13 06:35:02

If she's wanting to feed so much and getting frantic about it I wonder how much she's feeding during the day ? What kind and how much solid food is she having?

What is her nap schedule like in the day? I'd aim for 3 naps at first of about an hour each, plenty of busy times in between and keep bedtime boring and silent and dark! It might make no difference at all but that's what I do with my son aged the same as your dd... he sleeps from 6-6.

used2bthin Thu 07-Feb-13 07:49:23

Thanks for replies and sympathy! She is now very grumpy too and will no doubt follow me around screaming.

As for the neighbour he is a dj and we have had issues with him playing loud music at night before dd2 came along and he wasn't easy to deal with and dh probably should have taken my advice to not complain so much in view of the fact we were soon to have a baby!

I will read u on no cry solution thanks, she definately only sleeps when fed at night although will sleep better for dh patting her or rockingher occasionally.

Something needs to change,it can't get much worse than last night and we can't live like this. Night feeds wise Abby cat what you describe is what she does on a good night, or she sometimes would take a longer stretch 11-3 or 4 but that's not happening any more.

Food wise she's on 3 or four feeds a day but is distractable . She's on 3 meals a day and eats fairly well although won't let me feed her Mic h so am reliant on what she can feed herself mostly.

teacher123 Thu 07-Feb-13 08:29:49

It sounds though she's screaming a lot anyway, so maybe sleep training will be short term pain but long term gain. It certainly doesn't sound sustainable for much longer the way things are. I second the PP who said take them to the GP to rule out ears or something hidden that's making her unsettled at bedtime. What's her routine like? Is she reverse cycling a bit? HV told me at this age they are notorious for not eating enough in the day if they think they can fill up at night. It also sounds like she can't sleep without you feeding her, so the NCSS stuff will be useful for that.

MumOfMissy Thu 07-Feb-13 09:30:49

Not sure about your last para but I think you're saying you have to let her feed herself with a spoon?

If that's the case I'd guess at 7.5 months she's not really capable of giving herself enough of the solid food at each sitting, and could well still be hungry.

As others have suggested, try co-sleeping and feed her at first sign of rooting/hunger. This means less crying and more sleep for both of you. At present my 6 month old feeds at 1, 4, 5 and wakes up at 6.

The NCSS sounds good but at present Im too tired to go through it!

Hope things get better for you.

used2bthin Thu 07-Feb-13 10:14:02

Thanks yes I know what you mean missy I am too tired to do much and getting alternately depressed and anxious which is made worse by no energy to get out an do anything.

I would be very happy to d ok sleep training as for me it can't get worse but just had to make dd 1 go to school crying and exhausted as she was woken in the night too. So really can't risk more noise need less and quickly just hard to . Know how .

I wondered about the doctor as dh said today there must be something wrong. Like wonder about reflux as at one point she sat u p and burned an threw up. Other than that she's rarely sick and rarely burps but had reflux as a new born,think it was silent as she used to be same,no sick but would sound like she was drowning wit h in mins of being laid down.

used2bthin Thu 07-Feb-13 10:20:41

Sorry keep not answering properly. Naps are not that routined yet but hour and . Half usually in morn but sometimes after lunch depending on how bad the night was. Then on or two shorter half hour ish naps often those are in pram or car.

And for food she will let me spoon feed her a bit but mostly finger feeds herself I just chop up chicken or whatever we are having but lots of it goes o n the floor. I suspect s he does try to catch up on feeds at night she is very distractable and active so only feeds properly when tired.

MumOfMissy Thu 07-Feb-13 12:09:28

Sounds like she may still have silent reflux, my DD has it too and I still give her Ranitidine for it which reduces stomach acid - did u ever get medication for your LO? I found Gaviscon pretty useless tbh but Ranitidine has definitely helped.

My DD also used to choke when she was lying down as bits of sick used to come up into her mouth. Sounds like your LO may have it too.

I'd see your GP, also try co-sleeping if u are comfortable with it, it really does minimise the disruption of night feeds.

I feel your pain on the lack of sleep, is there anyone who could take her for an hour or two in the day so u can sleep? Or could DH have her about 9ish after your eldest is in bed and h try and sleep for a bit then?

used2bthin Thu 07-Feb-13 13:11:26

Thanks missey Tried a nap today and no joy but she's now asleep in car seat so going to risk it and try and sleep now. I feel she needs to be in bed from 7 or 8 so we had stopped with dh having her downstairs while I slept but . Maybe we will 're thin k that. We had gaviscon too it made her worse.older dd got v constipated on ranitidine but . Maybe I need to go back to gp about it all.

MumOfMissy Thu 07-Feb-13 15:46:23

Funny I found my DD got v constipated on gaviscon. She had odd days of const with Ranitidjne so now I give her a few sips of cool boiled water after every meal, seems to help.

I know u feel she should be in bed at 7/8 but maybe she's not tired? If DH took her for a while then she might sleep deeper/longer if you put her to bed a bit later? Otherwise DH could always rock her and let her sleep in his arms/ on his lap for a bit downstairs while u sleep?

Funny me trying to give u advice as I'm at my wits end with my own sleep situation! Hope this helps a bit. Oh and don't worry about your neighbor, you can't help it if your baby cries whereas his loud music is optional!

MavisG Thu 07-Feb-13 16:02:54

Sorry you're going through this. Maybe try offering more breastfeeds in the day?
Can you help dd1 sleep better with maybe ambient white noise cd she can turn on or headphones or soundproofing her room?
Can you get any help in the day so that you can rest a bit? Life sounds extremely challenging for you at the moment.
Something I found helpful was to go gluten- & dairy-free while ds was bf a lot; he eats anything now at 4 but definitely reacted to those allergens as a baby. Diet changes can seem too hard when you're knackered though.

used2bthin Thu 07-Feb-13 19:39:43

Thank you both.yes all very challenging and I have so much to get done which I keep messing up due to tiredness.

Problem with keeping her up is she gets so tired andends up beside herself down there just needing to sleep. But maybe I will rethink naps as when she did thAt at least she then slept a good few hours in a row.

Increasing my DS's feeds during the day made no difference to him waking every 1-2 hours through the night and needing boob - she doesn't need the food so much as the sucking to get her through each sleep cycle.

I also recommend No Cry Sleep Solution. Hasn't worked any miracles, but we have started getting slightly longer stretches.

Iggly Thu 07-Feb-13 22:25:18

I'm willing to bet its the silent reflux - the screaming means she's not happy.

Does she have dairy? I'd cut it out and you cut it out of your diet too. This can trigger silent reflux. Plus soya. Just try for a week. Also give her plain food - no onions, windy veg like peas or brocolli. No yogurts or cheese. No citrus. Just for a week. See what happens.

All the sleep training in the world won't help if she has silent reflux (been there with both!)

used2bthin Thu 07-Feb-13 22:39:18

No cry sleep solution is going to be my night time reading. Kept her up this eve as have a friend staying and dd1 woke her up not long after bed so rather than sit up resettling dd2 and leaving my friend alone I just took her back downstairs. She actually wolfed down some porridge too so either it will help as she was hungry or it will make things worse due to dairy!

I think I will try getting rid of dairy although presumably that means me too. A week is easy enough though just to see.

used2bthin Thu 07-Feb-13 22:40:49

Sorry just read the post properly will try cutting it out of both our diets.

used2bthin Fri 08-Feb-13 00:22:19

On second feed since 11pm when she went to bed. She obviously doesn't need the milk but was trying letting her feed immediately.can't feed every twenty mins though and she has been arching her back away. vAcant even put her in with me tonight as dh ishere

used2bthin Fri 08-Feb-13 01:59:41

Tonight is worse. She goes in cot ok then twenty mins or so wakes. screaming and arching her back. Can't get burps out of her except when I pick her up screaming she seems to choke. Bit worried now..

Genasai Fri 08-Feb-13 02:56:14

I agree with whoever said to put her to bed later. DD used to go to bed between 21-21:30 and would sleep roght through 12 hours, only occasionally waking around 3-4am.

I used to give her a 9oz bottle right before bed then sneek in around 11 before I went to bed and "sleep feed" her another 4-6oz. Maybe you could express and try this? Or maybe OH could do this and you go to bed afyer DD1 is down. Let hin deal wih the pre-sleep feed, putting LO down and then feed again before he sleeps.

If you went to bed at 8pm and he did that, even if she woke 2 hours later you'd have had 5 hours sleep.

Iggly Fri 08-Feb-13 06:44:18

No point doing later bedtime.

This baby sounds like she's got reflux. Tackle that and it will improve.

I would also so to GP and get ranitidine.

Fairylea Fri 08-Feb-13 06:47:59

The arching the back is typical for reflux. I'd definitely go back and bug your gp for something else.

MumOfMissy Fri 08-Feb-13 08:12:36

Yes agree OP the arching is classic symptom.

By the way, I wouldn't cut dairy - or anything - out of your baby's diet unless on the advice of your GP or a dietician.

Iggly Fri 08-Feb-13 08:39:41

Cutting out dairy for a week isn't a big deal for a BF baby who's quite young. I would be careful with an older child who has less BM.

If she cuts it out she can present any change to the GP as further evidence. In my experience with both of my dc who are both intolerant which carried through to toddlerhood, GPs just dont understand until you point it out to them.

MavisG Fri 08-Feb-13 09:24:14

I agree re dairy & soya, no big deal cutting anything when they're mostly bf. It can take longer than a week to clear symptoms -
6 weeks or so I think - but hopefully you'd see a big improvement inside a week. Dietary changes are so much easier when they're working. Almond milk's nice in porridge, so is oat milk. There are more 'free from' products than ever in supermarkets now, Saino's & waitrose are especially good.

used2bthin Fri 08-Feb-13 16:59:07

Thanks everyone, I think as she doesn't have much dairy yet it'd be ok short term anyway so will give it a go . Would I need to be extreme for me, ie no products (cakes!) With even small amounts of milk? I had milk intolerance as a baby which is why I think it's worth a try too.

Oh and just saw the gp who said she can only prescribe gaviscon. Dd1 had ranitidine at this age after having an ulcer so I know she could have it but that was prescribed by the hospital. I will try again with gaviscon but it didn't help before.

Iggly Mon 11-Feb-13 08:41:36

Can you see another GP? One told me I couldn't have it after faffing about trying to work out the doses. It was obvious he couldn't do the maths hmm another GP prescribed it no problem when ds was 12 weeks.

Iggly Mon 11-Feb-13 08:43:02

Yes I would go extreme. It's only a week. You can have bourbons (dairy free)...? It'll be like a mini health drive grin

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