High Needs Baby Support Group (thread V)

(351 Posts)

A new thread for a new year! smile

The original thread was to support those of us with babies fitting the following criteria:

1. Feeds frequently daytime
2. Feeds frequently nighttime
3. Needs to be constantly held
4. Wont sleep alone
5. Hates the car seat/pram
6. Short naps

Some of our babies have grown out of some of those now, but we're still here to support each other through the sleepless nights and noisy car journeys and to offer hugs, chocolate and wine to anyone who's struggling.

So if that list sounds familiar then come and join us as we delight in our active, inquisitive, curious and restless babies or toddlers!

Nightmoves Mon 31-Dec-12 20:43:42

Happy New Year for when it comes everybody. Posting now as I'm sure DS will drift off any minute now and sleep the peaceful textbook slumber I envisaged when pregnant, for the whole night. NOT!!!!!! Hope everyone has a lovely and not too disrupted evening.

DS has only just released the boob - after 2 hours! shock confused It's like he's a newborn again.

I hope you get that lovely uninterrupted night's sleep - I hear it's actually possible for some parents! grin

And happy new year everyone.

Evening all! DS started crying just as we sat down with our Chinese banquet but managed to get him back to bed.

Thankyou for your support the last few weeks ladies. I joined when I was at a desperate low point and luckily things are improving a little. I hope I can support others too.

Natmu Mon 31-Dec-12 23:19:19

Thank you for the recipe Joyful. Happy New Year to all you lovely ladies. Hope it's a good one. Just doing my last feed of 2012!

ticklemyboobsofsteel Tue 01-Jan-13 08:43:41

Happy New Year to you all smile

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Tue 01-Jan-13 16:49:23

Hi everyone, can I join? I have been lurking on these high needs threads for a while but didn't really have anything to add...until NOW! This past week or two has been horrific and I am just so exhausted by the endless crying and demands from our 12 month old DS2.

He still fits all the criteria and has done since he was 2 weeks old. It feels like he was born crying and has never really stopped! We've tried referrals to paediatrician who recommended dairy free diet but that made no difference, then prescribed rantidine in case of reflux but again no change. I took him to cranial osteopathy for three sessions but again, made no difference at all. It's just the way he is.

He is the most beautiful and amazing smiley boy, for about 5 minutes a day and then the whinging, crying, clinginess and general fussing starts again!

The sad thing is that over Christmas he turned 1 and we are still struggling more than my friends with newborns! I feel so cheated as DS1 was infamous on here 4 years ago for his grumpiness and all the same high needs traits so I KNOW it doesn't last forever. I just feel so sad that once again I am on here wishing my baby's life away in the way I did with DS1. I wanted so much to enjoy it this time. I try and stay positive but there really is very little to enjoy. He is clingy to DH more than me which makes me feel like I am doing a crap job even though I am sure it's normal (DS1 was the oposite and needed me constantly). DH is back to work again tomorrow after Christmas holidays and I am dreading another day of carrying him around and listening to the whinging. He is not yet walking and I think this is adding to the misery for him but why oh why can he not just be content for 10 minutes??! He hates pushchair and car seat just the same as DS1 did so going anywhere is impossible without carrying him (he refuses any of the slings which worked for DS1) so ends up in our arms which is just not doable 100% of the time.

Sorry to moan. I have just found this past few weeks impossibly hard having DS1 off school and feeling guilty for all the ttention he used to get that he doesn't get anymore due to DS2. Arrgh, sorry, just ranting and letting you know I am going through it all too! Also went through it all with DS1 and it did get better SLOWLY.

Oh that sounds dreadful, pull up a chair and have a brew (or wine if you prefer!). Has he been investigated for allergies other than dairy? Did you cut out soya too?

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Tue 01-Jan-13 20:11:17

Hiya Joyful thankyou, I'll take the wine thank you :-D

Yes I removed Soya too. It ended up with me stopping breast feeding at 4 months and switching to a dairy free formula (neocate) which he is still on though not sure if he is in fact intolerant to anything now or not! We are still under the paeditrician at the hospital (after a long hard battle to get a referral, kept getting fobbed off by health visitor and gp saying colic etc etc) Paediatrician agrees he was bloody difficult so agreed to help us try whatever we needed and try and get answers. I was so stressed out that my milk supply had all but gone by this point and then I had to add the guilt of stopping breastfeeding into the equation! I feel like a failure all round this time, whereas most people gain confidence by their 2nd, I feel at an all time low.

I have zero energy to deal with the constant crabbiness and the short naps, crying, whinging and snapping at DS1. Even though I KNOW it gets better, sometimes it's even harder second time round because I have DS1 to entertain and make sure his life doesn't come to an end just because it feels like mine has!

Sorry seem to have taken over the thread with my own whinging now but after a year, it's good to off load! I just so hoped it would all be different this time. Can't hekp but think I am just not designed to have babies. I can not stand the crying and screaming. Thank GOD I have DS1 as the light at the end of the tunnel.

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Tue 01-Jan-13 20:12:53

Sorry that was a huge post blush. Anyway, good news is DH had his vasectomy last month so we will NEVER have to go through this again!

I know just how you feel! DD was a HN baby too (she's 3.6 now) and I was so hoping that it would be different this time. In a way I have more confidence, because this time I know that I'm not doing anything wrong (I wish these threads had been around when DD was a baby!). However I have PND again and have really struggled at times (as some of these ladies can attest! blush).

You're right that it's worse this time around because you have the older child to think of - where I used to spend hours with DD on the sofa I can't do that with DS. Fortunately DD has been very loving towards him and very patient with me, but I do feel guilty that she gets a bit neglected. sad

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Tue 01-Jan-13 20:39:17

How old is your baby DS? Strange how it's affected us both times! Everyone said it would be so different this time....hmmm! DS2 is DS1's double (in looks and behaviour!) even down to the 30 minute naps, clinginess and the hatred of sitting still in pushchairs, needing to be on the move etc. Only difference is DS1 was walking by 11 months which did ease his frustration a litte, no such luck with DS2 he's still rolling around on the floor and not pulling up which again we have asked the paediatrician to keep an eye on. He can weight bear but has little interest in doing so. Like my sister says though, I don't know why everyone said it would be different this time, same parents, same genes, same parenting, the odds were pretty likely it would be the same but I didn't want to believe that at the time!

I feel ever so guilty too. I hate that I have sooooo much less patience with DS1, today after a looooong day of DS2's whinging and screaming for attentionm I really snapped at DS1 at bedtime for fairly typical (though slightly irritating) five year old behaviour. Now he's in bed asleep and of course I feel terrible and remorseful. This is getting a frequent occurance in our house at the moment and I hate it. It's not his fault I feel so shit.

Like you I was diagnosed with PND, I think I had it last time with hindsight but I wasn't aware of it. I just knew that I got very very low and I didn't realise it was PND because I had bonded well with DS1 and didn't realise that wasn't always a factor. I am sad to say I haven't bonded as well with DS2, largely because I do feel slightly resentufl of the time and energy he takes away from DS1 which I KNOW is completely unacceptable on my part. I am on antidepressants and go to counselling in order to get past it. I just feel very sad that in many way because of how it was with DS1, and the similarities between him and DS2, I am reliving the darkest most horrible days of my life and it's heart breaking sometimes. It took me over 2 years to really enjoy DS1 and I still feel guilty for that.

He had his first birthday on Christmas Day. smile I was hoping it would be different as apparently I was a HN baby (except my parents left me to cry) but my younger sister was as placid a baby as you could wish for. But no, I got a second one! confused Some other regular posters on here had 'normal' babies before their HN one though.

I think that feeling short-tempered is a natural result of both PND and having a HN baby. The two together can be really hard so please don't blame yourself for snapping at DS1. I tend to find that I have rapid cycling - where someone with bipolar disorder has days or weeks of mania followed by days or weeks of depression, I ping between the two in a matter of minutes or hours. I can go from happy smiley mummy to cross and snappy mummy in a matter of moments and I hate it. I'm gradually learning to spot when I'm cycling downwards but it's still hard.

I remember very little of DD's first 6 months, and not much of her first year. I was just in such a mess with the PND and anxiety. I didn't want to be like that this time (I had AND during my pregnancy with DS as well) so I'm on ADs. So far they're helping me be a bit more even in my moods and I cope better with stress - are yours helping?

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Tue 01-Jan-13 21:54:50

Aww Christmas day baby! My Ds was Chistmas Eve :-)

My older sister was a tricky baby apparently but I was really placid. I was kind of hoping this time would be a doddle!

YES! I totally relate to the pinging between happy calm mummy and cross snappy mummy. Sometimes it's just like a switch flucks and all my anger seems to bubble out in the things I say to DS1. Tonight I really snarled at him for spilling a tiny bit of milk from a mug. What a bitch. I feel so sad now because he was so shocked. I know DS1 is a lovely boy, he is my world, so why am I so bloody rotten to him???! I never used to be like this. Not since DS1 was a baby anyway so he not used to me being stressed and snappy. I just need to get control of my temper. We have never hit DS1 and I know I never would but I can say the most vile things to him when I am stressed. Tonight I growled 'Can you not just drink like a NORMAL child without turning the house into somekind of a freakshow??' I don't even know what I meant by that but I was so venomous and evil in the way I said it... what is wrong with me?! I am a horrible mother :-(

Ahh this year has just taken it's toll on us and me especially. I am so desperate for DS1 to have a happy experience of having a sibling but so far his little playmate is a whinging, screaming, mummy stealer! Bless him. Thank you for allowing me to vent though! Lovely to see that still after all these years I can come on here and SOMEONE understands quite how hard it can be and that babies are not always the beautiful life enriching little beings the ads make them out to be.

Not sure if my ADs are working or not really. I am still feeling pretty lousy after a bad day but maybe I'd be worse without them. I certainly don't feel on top of my depression which I think the counselling is helping with. She's referring me for cognitive behaviour therapy to help me think more positively and not dwell on the negatives. How are yours working out?

Oh lovely, you are not a horrible mother. You sound very low and stressed (and understandably so!) but if you were a horrible mother you wouldn't care. How long have you been on the ADs?

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Tue 01-Jan-13 22:37:53

Thank you. I do care but it doesn't stop me from feeling this way. I have been in ADs since DS2 was 6 months. I know how much I hurt DS1 with the things I say, I just feel so stressed and sometimes (often) he is the easiest one to shut up and take it out on which I know if horrible. Totally wrong. The sad thing is that he is all that is keeping me going right now and I feel like I am failing him so very badly. I hate that 'i am not the mummy I was to him before DS2 came along. I hate how much I resent DS2 for it when it's not his fault. I think I am just feeling sorry for myself.

You sound so like me. sad I don't really have any advice to offer, just hugs and support) and more wine?). Things will improve, in a year you'll look back and marvel how different things are.

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Tue 01-Jan-13 23:06:15

Thank you Joyful I really do appreciate having someone to talk rant to! How are you finding Anti depressants? Have they helped you at all? Sorry you're feeling similar to me. It's comforting really to know people understand. I know he won't be a baby/ toddler forever but I keep remembering how much of a long long way we have to go and how long it took to get any realy enjoyment last time without walking on eggshells the whole time and people looking at us and our parenting like we were from another planet! It's so tiring seeing the next year sprawling out ahead of me knowing the boredom and frustration we're going through!

How is your DS in the daytimes now? I am guessing night times are not good?

The ADs help keep me on a more even keel but I'm still up and down a fair bit. Nighttimes are definitely not good - atm I'm in bed with DS because he refuses to stay in the cot. Some nights he's awake every 10 minutes! shock Usually it's every hour or so. I can't remember what an unbroken night's sleep feels like, it's been so long!

MeandMyJoe - I really believe coping with a high needs baby makes you a great mum, regardless of tiny moments of being cross or switching your smile off. The majority of the time you're coping.

Meeting your HN baby's needs, in your case carrying him round, who your endless patience. Nothing makes you a better mother than that and I'm sure you're meeting your older child's needs too, even if you feel you're not. Big hugs to you. It is very hard.

Joyful, I didn't realise you had a previous HN baby. How is your DD now? Is she still HN, or does she have any personality traits that you'd link to her HN behaviour as a baby? Hope you don't mind me asking. I teach nursery (3 and 4 year olds) and I do wonder if any of them were HN.

DD is very demanding but as far as I can tell no more so than any other 3yo. She's quite stroppy highly strung but happily plays independently and goes to sleep on her own (and has done for about a year).

She's very intelligent - at 3.6 she can read, count to 36 before she gets bored and asks endless questions like "What are dreams?" and "Why does the bath water go down when you get out of the bath?" and can actually understand the answers. Quite often she asks questions that I have to look up the answers to! Her speech and comprehension are that of a much older child ("Mummy, something's been puzzling me...") and because she's tall people often think she's about 5.

Thanks Joyful, that's interesting. Wow, that is a very high level of language and understanding for a 3 year old. Brilliant. Most of the 3 year olds I get in my nursery class can't talk at all when they start..

I wonder how my DS will turn out. He's becoming more independent in the daytime he'll play on his own a bit and he plays on his own a lot in nursery.
He's not developmentally ahead at all though. Apart from sitting up, which he did very early, he's quite slow, he didn't crawl until 10 months and he isn't showing an interest in walking on his own yet. He can only say basics, mama, dada etc. However, he is very interested in numbers, if I count or sing number songs I have his rapt attention, and he makes 'counting' noises.
He definitely has a strong personality and has done since birth. At the moment he is testing boundaries a lot. He knows when he's done something 'naughty' like biting and will shake his head. And laugh usually.

<fears the future>

Mitsouko Wed 02-Jan-13 10:04:39

Happy New Year ladies! And happy birthday to both the Christmas babies...

Welcome, MeAndMyJoe and sorry to hear that you're struggling. Sounds like you are doing a fantastic job though. I have so much admiration for all you mums with more than one HN child - I can barely cope with one!

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Wed 02-Jan-13 22:28:14

Thanks for making me so welcome everyone. WOW puddle your DD sounds so much like my DS1 at that age. He's 5 now and very scientifi in his thought processes and extremely articulate, again he is tall for his age and often gets mistaken for a 7-8 yr old. He is very sensitive but in a good, compassionate, gentle way. He is actually amazing now and very well behaved, sleeps independantly, he's just lovely. (Though he always knows best and can be very bossy).

Thank you to everyone for all the kind words. It does mean a lot. Today has not been a good day but i don't want to hijack the thread and make it all woe is me but thank you all. x

It's not hijacking, that's partly what these threads are for! The last thread saw me having a nervous breakdown halfway through and I got wonderful support and handholding from these lovely ladies. smile Feel free to vent/rant/confide as and when you need to.

And yes, DD does sound like your DS! Especially the bossiness. grin

Been up for two hours. Not crying or feeding. Laughing. Hysterically. At his hands. Wtf?


Joyful, even I was laughing. He is totally bonkers at the moment. He was also stretching out his curls and laughing at them and mine too. I love his smile so much, I could cope with being awake.

How was your night and everyone else?
I would hand out biscuits but they look like weird helmets on this new app.

And I'm on a diet anyway. When I've finished all these real life biscuits.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Thu 03-Jan-13 09:20:36

Just popping on before work to say hello and welcome to MeandMyJoe smile Never worry about lots of posting, it's what we're all here for - support, understanding, and people to rant to that won't tell you that you've made a rod for your own back!

Little How sweet! grin

We're trying to work out what to do with DS's naps. He seems to be gradually going down to one per day, but we don't want to totally cut his morning nap as sometimes he still looks tired (but still refuses sleep sometimes...). Yesterday while I was in the office, he amost didn't have a morning nap - a bottle of mik from DH saved the day, and ended up having 40 minutes. But then totally refused an afternoon nap, and didn't look massively tired during his bath/bedtime. Settled to sleep in bed after about 15 minutes, woke once (bloody foxes making a row) and then slept till 7.30am. Spectacular night, and am wondering if it's because he had such reduced sleep during the day.

DH has taken DS out this morning to a group and to the supermarket and so we'll see how he holds out till naptime after lunch...

Sigh, work beckons...have good days all of you smile

Boobsofsteel, the same here, DS seems to be dropping to one nap as well, although he starts his in the morning. How old is your DS?

My problem is, he seems to need about 2.5-3 hours with just one nap and goes that if we're holding him,but I need to leave at 11:30 for work. I usually get him up at 7, but I might have to try waking him earlier when I go back to work next week so he can have a longer nap. Obviously I'm reluctant to get up earlier, but hopefully it will have an overall positive impact!

ticklemyboobsofsteel Thu 03-Jan-13 12:30:39

DS is coming up for 18 months, Little. I read that they drop to one nap between 15-18 months, and DS has always tended to do everything in his own sweet time smile So far he's doing well. Has just had lunch and I think we're aiming for a nap at 1 or 1.30. Praying it's a decent length one...

DS dropped to one nap last month hmm but I think DD did around this age too. She dropped naps completely at 20 months.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Thu 03-Jan-13 18:48:29

DS dropped his late afternoon nap quite late too, so not surprised he's clung on to two naps so long. Fingers crossed we'll have at least one nap for a while! I can't imagine having no nap time break (not that I get a break while I'm working, but its a bit of quiet time!) in only two more months!

So, he had a nap at 1.30pm, slept for his usual 1.5hrs, woke up pretty grumpy but cheered up as the afternoon went on. He's in the bath now with DH smile

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Thu 03-Jan-13 20:41:22

Thank you to you all for allowing me to vent! My DS1 still had a nap until he was 4 tickle so hopefully you will have some quiet time for a while too!

DS2 still needs 2 naps a day and gets really crabby sometimes still after only being awake for 2 hours yet will fight it for ages if I try to get him to sleep so I end up keeping him awake for 3 hours but DS1 was the same. I can't seem to make happy babies!

I am just struggling with guilt of having DS1 and feeling like I haven't the energy to deal with either of them. DS1 is really not a challlenging child anymore, just very talkative and requires a fair bit of parental input but I like that about him. I love how interactive and funny he is but I seem to be permenantly grumpy with having DS2's whinging and crying either always in the back ground or constantly waiting for him to start with the whinging and crying. I am just not feeling like I am enjoying any of it at the minute.

How is everyone's days going? I can't be the only one with a grumpus can I????! I always remember when DS1 was about 10 months old me sobbing after he was crying and inconsolable and saying to him 'You will be an only child, you will never have and siblings, I can not do this again!' .... hmmmm, thing is after 3 years I looked at this amazingly articulate, engaging, gentle little boy and was fooled into it all over again!

littlemachine laighing hysterically at his hands sounds so cute!

Nightmoves Thu 03-Jan-13 21:33:56

I love DS dearly but will need to think long and hard about my coping abilities before trying to have another. I really don't know if I could do this again or if me and DH could withstand it, so hats off to you ladies who are on 2nd time around. Christmas very stressful, DH and I finally went out for a few hours leaving DS with my mum and spent much of the time arguing about when to stop bf (DH thinks sooner is better) and how he thinks DS not sleeping is "ruining our lives". The real issue seems to be him sleeping with us. I know DH enjoys this when DS sleeps but hates being woken up. I point out to him that very rarely does he ever actually get up with DS and he can just roll over and go back to sleep, and that we have already agreed no sleep training till he is a year. Plus he has had cold and teething as you know. As for the bf, well that actually upset me. He thinks there is something weird about it as DS gets bigger (only 9 months). We had already agreed no formula as DH has MANY allergies and I had planned on starting to think about weaning at a year but WILL NOT be pushed into it. Aaaaarrrrrggggghhhhh...

On nap subject, DS is still young but get distinct impression he is trying to drop naps. Seems to be he will have decent one during day (1 1/2 hr) then won't need to sleep again till bed. At very most quick catnap at 4ish. Seems to make no difference to nighttime sleep (equally crap no matter what naps have occurred). If first nap is small (1hr or less) then he will have 2nd. Do you think I should try to alter this? Too young for only 1 nap?

Welcome meandmyjoe. Think you are doing marvellous job.

little that is too cute!!!

joyful how is the walking coming on? Many bumps? I am dreading it as DS prone to bumps just from crawling!!!

ticklemyboobsofsteel Fri 04-Jan-13 09:54:44

Nightmoves Here too. I do really want another baby at some point in the next three or so years, and that's fine in theory, but there is lots to think about as regards to whether we could cope okay.

Just wrote a load more but am using my work laptop and have managed to highlight and delete everything while typing. Grr! It's going to be one of those days...

Hope you all have a good day. MeandMyJoe Naps till 4! That's more like it! grin

I desperately want another baby, but I nearly died when I was pregnant as I was so ill from hyperemesis and neglected by my doctors (long story) and I just know I couldn't look after DS at all if I was that sick again.
I'm looking at a few years at least, when he can be a bit more independent, and I want several children and I have fertility problems, so I'll probably be posting about my 5th HN baby on here when I'm about 60!

We desperately wanted another baby after DD but I just couldn't cope with the idea of going through the PND again. Fate intervened - DS was conceived while I was on the pill! It wasn't great timing as we'd just moved 200 miles and we're living with my parents; the pregnancy meant that we had to move out. I developed AND and then PND afterwards hmm. But you know what, I wouldn't change it for the world. HN babies are tough but they are worth the extra effort and stress and I'm not just saying that because of the antidepressants!

Even now DH and I would love more children, we'd always planned to have 3 or 4. However my physical and mental health means that this isn't possible for us, so we will only have 2. But they're an awesome twosome. smile

The other thing I would say is that one HN baby doesn't mean that your second one will be. There are several posters here who've had 'normal' babies before their HN ones, so it seems reasonable that it can happen the other way round too.

Snugabugz Fri 04-Jan-13 16:22:08

Not sure if I qualify? DS2 is six months, won't nap in his cot only on the move, currently waking every two hours at night, not keen on bottles although lately has had a couple of ounces during the day.

He is happy and content during the day, unless he is ill. It's just the sleep deprivation that's killing me and I am going back to work in three weeks.

Hello Snug! Do you have any support at home? What job are you going back to, is it something where you can have a caffeine drip flexible?

I had a change of haircut yesterday and people keep telling me I look younger! I don't know whether that means my previous haircut made me look older... hmm

It doesn't matter as long as your new haircut doesn't make you look older! What's it like? I have resorted to the MN haircut recently.

Welcome Snug! Come and snuggle in with us in our red eyed heap.

It's shorter, and for the first time in 20 years I have a fringe! I rarely have my hair cut as it's an unnecessary expense but a friend gave me a voucher for a free haircut at a posh salon. grin

I bet you feel great! Love having my hair done. You should take your new hair out somewhere.

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Fri 04-Jan-13 22:20:13

Haha Joyful I was just nodding in agreement at you seeing a haircut being an unnecessary expense! I always tell my friends this who complain about being skint but go out and spend 60 quid on a hair cut and roots being dyed etc! I have been cutting my own hair since I was 17 and whilst I am no hairdresser, it looks OK enough (ish) grin . I would love a free fancy hair cut though, just to have it styled and feel classy for a day!!!

Well I have actually had a decent enough day with both boys today. Can't say I have achieved anything ground breaking BUT I did look at them both today and think 'awwww now I remember why I can do this' which made me smile after a very hard week with the stress of Christmas and a very whingy cry-y baby! Sadly though DS2 now has a bad cold and is rattley and snotty so nights are even more disturbed. He's been awake crying 3 times already tonight and the only way to settle him is to feed him normally which he isn't taking properly because he's so stuffy he can't breathe properly and is also off his food so isn't hungry. I can see a lot of crying and pacing around with him on the cards for tonight. Ahhh well! At least it's weekend and I must give credit to DH is really does do 50% of the settling and pacing around, cuddling etc so I couldn't ask for more.

I know how you all feels those who are wanting more children but afraid how you'd cope. I knew one day we'd want another, I was very broody after DS1 got over the first 2 years of hell high needs phase but was so scared incase lightening struck twice. Sod's law it did but you just cope. You have to. I know I have been a moany cow since being on here but I wouldn't change the fact that we had DS2. Also with the second you have the benefit of hindsight and the knowledge that it really does get better. With DS1 I really thought he was the only baby in the world who needed constantly soothing, who didn't like the pram, who screamed on car journeys etc and I just thought he was a miserable child. I couldn't have been more wrong. His sensitivity now is definitely a plus point rather than the negative it used to be. His grumpiness was largely due to frustration at not being able to communicate and as I said once he could talk, he talked in paragraphs and is so so interesting to be around. It's just hard going for this first bit, which seems to last forever when I am surrounded by happy gurgling sleeping babies of friends while mine is angry, loud and non sleeping!

Having said that. I wouldn't have any more! Haha. Not just because of the high needs thing but how much I have been dpressed after both of mine and of course the older DS1 gets the more I feel he would pick up on it and it inevitable would impact on him more to go through it again. ~Never again! DH has had snip now anyway so no more for us.

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Fri 04-Jan-13 22:21:07

WOW!! Another epically long post from me! I am starting to see why DS1 talks so much and who he gets it from blush !

Do you know what MeAndMyJoe, only recently a couple of my friends who I don't see because they live away have reached out to me about their HN babies.
I'm not a Facebook baby bore but I post about the odd bad night and so on, and they've asked tentative questions and then practically fallen sobbing at my feet (in a virtual, inboxy way) because they're so grateful to not be alone. It does feel very isolating, yet we're really not alone.
That's how I felt when I found this thread too, at the height of the awfulness in November. I cried. Well I was probably already crying because I did nothing else, but I cried with relief.

Snugabugz Sat 05-Jan-13 10:38:43

Hi thanks for making me feel welcome. My job is full time and I do work from home two or three days a week. So in theory I could feed the baby during the day when DH is looking after him.

I should also be able to leave early to give a feed at around teatime as long as I read emails etc at same time.

I have a secret confession that I kind of hope that when he goes to nursery in a couple of months time that he will settle down and take a bottle as there's no alternative. By then he'll be seven months and having food too. Fingers crossed as I would like someone else to be able to feed him, especially at night.

I also thought that if I am totally sleep deprived no one would know if I had a sneaky nap! I would if course make up the time in the evening.

I am currently applying for a new better paid job and have done most of the application form with a baby attached to my boob. I might put this in the 'skills' section.

Caffeine drip sounds good but what I really miss is wine. I go to bed straight after the baby does most nights.

Hoping for a better night tonight for you all.

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Sat 05-Jan-13 11:24:45

Welcome to snuga I am new here too, well not new to mumsnet, been on for years since DS1 was a high needs screamer baby but I'm new to this thread! Ahh a caffine drip, this is what we all need! Or better still a sedative drip for our babies grin !

I went to bed after DS2 did last night and apart from a screaming fit at 10:30pm he actually slept til 7:30am!!!! shock Probably won't happen again but I really needed the sleep and so did he!

Littlemachine I think there must be more high needs/ difficult babies out there than people admit! I felt so alone when I had DS1. Now I know it will pass so it's not so hopeless feeling but it still seems so hard when I am around my 2 friend's placid babies whoi both have slept through sice 4 weeks and hardly murmer during the day. It's hard to not feel like a failure. If only some of my friend's had been through it too and would realise where I'm coming from instead of giving me 'normal baby' advice that would just NOT work for mine! I know they mean well so I just smile and nod but it's very isolating at times. your faebook friends are lucky to have you!

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Sat 05-Jan-13 11:26:46

typos fat fingers, small laptop sorry haha

MeAndMyJoe - I've said it before on here and I'll say it again. Your baby not sleeping doesn't make you a failure, nor does having a baby with a HN personality. They are both things that are totally out of your control - two of the few things, in fact, that as a parent of a baby, you can't control.

But I know that feeling.

And brilliant news on the sleeping!

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Sat 05-Jan-13 17:19:12

Thank you littlemachine it's good of you to remind me of this. Rationally I know you're right. There is not a single thing I could do differently, not a single thing I haven't tried to cheer up and settle both of my babies BUT it's so upsetting to see everyone else enjoying their children's babyhood and finding it all so magical while I am just bloody frazzled all the time and exhausted! I remember seeing my friends or people at baby groups with their happy babies drifting off to sleep on their laps, or playing on mats while I had DS1 attached to my boob to comfort him and when I wasn't feeding I was pacing around like a lunatic. He wouldn't ever let me just sit and enjoy him. Such a sad time which sounds horrible beause obviously I adore him but it was just hard work! Same is true of DS2. I have a little mantra I have been repeating to myself for the past year 'It gets better. I have done this before. I can do it again.'

I KNOW I can do it again but it doesn't stop me from being disappointed in having to do it again. Not that I am disappointed in having DS2 at all, it's just that I had hoped to enjoy it slightly more this time but it wasn't to be. sad

How's everyone's day been? We actually have had a pretty lovely day. DS2 is still snotty and seems tired but not overly crabby (for him anyway!). We took the boys to the museum and other than a little melt down from DS2 because I wouldn't let him have one of the plastic models from a display (but I suppose that's kind of normal behavour from a 1 year old) it was a good day. DS1 had fun making 3D models with card and a Roman mosaic thingy. DS2 seemed to want to be part of it which is hard when he just wants to shove everything in his mouth but he enjoyed fiddling with the odd baby safe bits. It's nice to have days where I feel like DS1 isn't suffering too much as a consequence of DS2.

Those with older kids how do you juggle it all? I seem to feel guilty all the time and still after a year I mourn my time with DS1 without feeling guilty for leaving DS2 or having a whinging DS2 on my lap!

I feel the same but I guess DD doesn't remember life before DS (she was 2.5 when he was born) so it's a little easier for me I think. I try to make time for her each day and sometimes leave DS with DH and take DD out somewhere. Even if it's just to the shops, so we can have a nice chat and she gets some 1:1 time. Is that an option?

A bit of a mixed day here. I weighed myself this morning and I've lost over 4lb this week smile (although I then celebrated by baking brownies hmm). But then this afternoon we gave away almost all of our newborn and 0-3m clothes to friends who are expecting their first baby in May. I know it's the right thing to do and I'm trying to view it as a cathartic thing, letting go and all that. But it's painful. sad

Natmu Sat 05-Jan-13 21:02:12

Welcome MeAndMyJoe and Snug. I have DS1 who is 4.9 and was a 'normal' baby and DS2 who is 4 months and HN. I find it really hard to cope with two and feel utterly guilty about neglecting DS1 all the time. He absolutely adores his brother but has found it very difficult to adjust to having him around. He started reception 2 weeks after DS2 was born so he's had massive changes in his little life this year. I'm just as crabby and short tempered as you MeAndMyJoe and have the same attacks of the guilt. I had PND after DS1 despite the fact that he was the most perfect baby anyone could wish for. I've had it again this time but coped a bit better amazingly. I think I was just ready for it this time.

Until I had DS2 I'd never even heard of HN babies but it has completely changed my idea of parenting. Babywearing has been the life saver for me. I'm just praying my back holds out and DS2 enjoys it long term grin

Natmu Sat 05-Jan-13 21:03:03

I'll help you eat those brownies if you like Joyful grin

Back to work today. I'm dreading leaving DS. He's been so good during the holidays and made some big steps. Small steps to most people but big for him, like holding his arms out to his uncle.
I know he's going to go downhill once he's back in nursery. It makes me feel so guilty.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Mon 07-Jan-13 10:15:50

Aww Little <hugs>. I know it's hard but try not to feel guilty. Not that I can really talk. I went back to work full time in March last year (mostly at home, but in the office at least once a week) and I still feel guilty every day, even though I'm lucky enough to be around DS while working at home. It's utter shit <prays for lottery win>

I hope your day goes by swiftly Little - DS will be back in your arms again before you know it.

We had a lovely weekend - my mum came up on Saturday for a visit and we took DS swimming and out for a meal yesterday. As always, it goes too fast though. DH is taking DS to soft play this morning. I know that I'm working and providing a wage for the family, but I just feel like shit every morning when they leave together. I feel like I should be the one taking care of him/taking him places. I know we made the right decision for me to keep working with such a wonderful flexible opportunity as I have been given, but some days I just feel so blue sad

Thanks tickle. I really hope I can give up work in the near future. I hate teaching now anyway, and it just feels so wrong handing DS over.
The Christmas holidays have just confirmed how much of a negative impact nursery has on him, even though it's a wonderful nursery and he's only there for 4 hours a day.

Natmu Mon 07-Jan-13 19:29:18

<hugs> to both of you. I'm still on mat leave atm but lack of money will force me back at the end of May and I'm utterly dreading it. I'm a teacher too Little. I don't know about you but I find I end up resenting all the time I'm putting into other people's children instead of my own. How old are your DC's? How old were they when you both had to start work again? Returning to work was what tipped me over the edge with the pnd last time although I was doing a different job then.

Snugabugz Mon 07-Jan-13 20:09:56

I know what you mean Meandmyjoe about looking at other babies and wondering how come others have it so easy.

Spent the weekend with my cousin whose 12 week old sleeps from 7pm to 8am whilst mg six month old is up every two hours. I went to bed at 8pm whilst everyone else had a lovely evening together.

I must be so boring moaning on about how he wakes so often but it's hard to talk about 'normal' topics, must try harder.

All my family were very supportive but made me sad to miss out just 'cos I am so tired I can barely function.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Mon 07-Jan-13 20:37:33

Ta for the hugs Natmu. DS was 8 months when I started back - DH took the final month of my statutory mat leave as paternity leave. I'm really lucky to have such flexible employers, and see DS throughout the day when DH brings him home for lunch, etc, but I find myself worrying constantly as to how long it will last - so many redundancies and restructurings over the last year or so.

Thankyou Natmu. My day was actually lovely, I was so proud of DS I nearly cried. When we walked into his nursery room he put his arms out to his key worker and didn't cry when I left smile and I had a nice, calm, teaching afternoon with my nursery class.
I went back when DS was 8 months old. The nursery he goes to is onsite, as we have a sure start in our school, but it's not attached to my nursery. I set it up, and I know the staff very well, so it's a best case scenario, nursery-wise. I'm lucky to be part time too. I found the first 4 weeks horrendous, and then when DS ha virus after virus and became doubly HN. He's improved so much in the last 3 weeks, I just really hope being apart from me doesn't undo it.

Natmu Tue 08-Jan-13 03:36:00

Well done DS Little! That's great that he felt so confident going back. You never know it might last smile. I'm part time too doing 3 full days a week. I'm lucky because when I go back MIL will be looking after him.

Had a bit of a discussion with DH about him tonight. We usually read DS1 a story each before bed if we're both here and usually DS2 is asleep in my arms for this but tonight I just felt like I wanted to give DS1 a proper cuddle and my full attention. Of course DS2 had other ideas and ended up working himself into a real state every time I tried to put him down so bedtime was ruined for DS1 again. So then I start questioning myself and wondering again whether all this attachment parenting for DS2 is the right thing to do because he utterly dictates life around here and I am getting resentful and DS1 is suffering. I guess I was looking for a bit of reassurance and a confidence boost from DH but he said if it was up to him he would do cc. He thinks DS1 is being pushed aside too much and that it's not fair to ask MIL to look after DS2 when I go back to work if he is still behaving in this way. Now I'm all over the place mentally. I just never seem to have any confidence in what I'm doing.

Sorry for another ramble.

Does DS2 see your MIL often Natmu? I was so worried about DS starting nursery, because he is so attached to me, but after an initial horrendous week there he settled well enough for me to be happyish.

Is your MIL happy to hold him as much as he needs etc? It's so hard having to leave them, no matter what.

Hmm a hard discussion to have with your DH. Are you against cc, or do you just not think it will work for DS2?
Will DS2 settle with your DH while you do story time and you could alternate?

You're parenting the way your DS needs you to. He needs the attachment at the moment so that's why you're doing it. It doesn't mean he'll rule the roost indefinitely, because you'll still be able to put behavioural boundaries in when he's developmentally ready.

I never intended to be an attachment parent. I was willing to give bf a go for the first few months, but I never thought I'd co-sleep or 'baby wear' or be an extended bfer. I totally don't fit that profile! But I had to adapt my ideas of parenting to suit DS and his needs.

You'll know what's best for you all.

Nightmoves Tue 08-Jan-13 21:39:21

natmu having very similar discussions with my DH at the mo. so difficult. Doubly worse by fact that DS seems to have hit 9 month sleep regression, I didnt think it could get bloody worse! Now in addition to waking all the time he is taking ages to settle even with feeding him and lying beside him, and up during the night despite cometely co-sleeping!!! We are all exhausted and I have nothing left. Feel DH thinks I am making excuses for him when I explain about HN and sleep regressions. I wonder too if I am, but for me cc just doesn't feel right. I am seriously considering forking out for sleep constant when he is 1 or when I feel ready, as just feel all my confidence is gone and don't want to wreck DS by doing something wrong. Oh the joys... And I don't even have any more DC!! Will be interested to know what you decide to do.

Natmu Wed 09-Jan-13 03:46:35

He sees MIL at least twice a week and I left him with her last night (although it was only for about half an hour). He was very grumpy as he'd hardly slept all day but she coped very well with his screaming and he was smiling at her when I got back. I think she probably will hold him quite a bit although she prefers to stick them in the pushchair and go out walking. I don't think she'd just let him cry.

Reassuring words Little thank you. I just wish I could have faith in my decisions. I have never tried cc to it's full extent. With DS1 when he was a bit older, he got into a habit of waking up for cuddles so I used a pick him up, settle, put him down, he'd start to cry and we'd repeat method. It worked well for him because he never got distressed but he eventually got the message that nighttime was for sleeping (but then he was sleeping through the night by 10 weeks so easier all round really). I think I would be against cc and I'm also very doubtful that it would even work with DS2.

Nightmoves I'm sure my DH thinks the same re making excuses. I got him to read a bit of Sears and Sears about sleeping and cc etc but he just said 'well I could show you a dozen books which argue thd opposite point of view. It's just an opinion.' Ultimately I don't think I'm capable of putting him through cc and I don't want to inflict the sleepless nights on DS1 either because it's an all or nothing kind of approach and he would keep us all awake if I let him scream.

Ho hum. The pitfalls of parenthood eh? Hope you are both having a decent night anyway. Good to talk all this out. Helps bolster my confidence. Thanks.

MeAndMyJoeNowHaveRowan Thu 10-Jan-13 11:55:04

Arrrrrrgh!!! DS2 has cried and whined all day long. What the hell is going on?? I know DS1 was the same but surely it's not normal for a 1 year old to still be so unsettled??! Sorry all me me me but just wanted to vent.

Olivess Thu 10-Jan-13 13:55:38

Hi everyone. I'm starting to realise that I may have a HN baby! Actually I've suspected it for a while but the past few days has been awful. She's 12 weeks old. From the moment she was born she cried and cried - she wanted to be fed constantly. In fact the first night in hospital she did not settle at all - the midwife had to take her off me at 4am because she was so wound up, wanting to be fed and wouldn't be put down in the crib.

Her sleeping has been poor from the start, for the first few weeks she was unputdownable. She hated the Moses basket, pram, car seat. We have gradually got her used to the Moses basket and pram and she does sleep in both for short periods. We co- slept for a while to survive and that worked quite well but wasn't a long term solution for us. She hates the car seat and screams in it unless we time it perfectly when she may fall asleep.

The past week her sleep has completely gone to pot. She is sleeping for maybe 2 hours but often less, waking every hour or so. She will not self-settle and goes from a little grumble to full on crying in a matter of seconds. Last night was awful - she hardly slept and nor did we. She cried between 3 and 5. Then slept for 20 mins and then woke up again. I feel terrible, have had a cold/flu but can't catch up on any sleep which I need so desperately.

This morning we went to our baby massage class. I timed it really well so she had a nap before we went but it started half an hour later than I was told so she had half an hour of being delightful while we were waiting and then a total meltdown when it began. She screamed and screamed and i just felt so inadequate with all the other mother there with their calm, quiet babies. It took me 30 mins to rock her to sleep, we walked home and then she woke up straight away screaming and it took me another 30 mins to settle her again. I'm driving myself mad trying to work out how to improve her sleep but nothing seems to be working.

Sorry for the long post - just needed to get it off my chest and a bit of hand-holding really. She is such a gorgeous baby and can be so delightful and happy but the lack of sleep is really getting to me.

Natmu Thu 10-Jan-13 19:40:28

Welcome Olivess and don't worry MeAndMyJoe, I've had some meltdowns on here. It's the perfect place.

Olivess sorry to hear you're going through such a rough patch. Can I ask why co-sleeping didn't work for you? It's the only way either me or DS2 ever get any sleep and he's waking every couple of hours too.

Here's a hand to hold both of you. Hope you have better nights tonight. I live by Joyful's mantra now.....this too will pass.

Nightmoves Thu 10-Jan-13 19:50:58

Hi olivess. Sorry to hear you're having a rough time of it. You will get lots of commiseration and support here!! Your story brings back lovely memories of my DS screaming his head off at that age so you're not alone don't worry. I left a baby yoga class in tears and never went back and ditto with the massage. Although for us the sereneness of the activity was definitely a contributing factor - he needed something more engaging. Also with the pram etc. People used to say "oh wow you must be loving bring able to get out and about with him in the pram" and I would nod and smile when actually I was petrified and carried him screaming whilst pushing the pram on many occasions. He has settled a bit (now 9 months) and found a wee routine, albeit everchanging, which I can use to plan our activities and minimise unhappiness. Also co-sleeping has saved me in terms of sleep. And majorly adjusting my expectations, which MN and this thread have been great for. Hang in there.

<sneaks in>

<puts on fresh brew and leaves out tray of warm brownies>

Hi all and welcome Olivess! Sorry I've been mostly absent this week, the mental health demons are interfering with normal function. hmm I've been avoiding anything like social interaction unless it's via social media, when I can keep everyone at arm's length. I am lurking though, and send hugs to you all. smile

<sneaks back out again>

Natmu Sat 12-Jan-13 01:44:43

Ah Joyful love. Sending hugs right back at ya. Was wondering where you were hiding. Hope you can banish those demons back from whence they came and hastily.

Hugs Joyful (don't care we're not supposed to 'hug'). I hope you feel better soon.

Nightmoves Sat 12-Jan-13 21:23:58

<lays out new york vanilla cheesecake and wine for joyful and exits as baby has woken up again>

Nicknamenotavailableeither Sat 12-Jan-13 21:36:30

Can I join in please? I definitely have a high needs baby and have been all over any books I can find by Dr Sears, I love them! Such a big help with my ds who is 8 weeks.

It was a bit if a shock after my dd who slept through from early on!

I feel a bit at odds with a lot of my other mummy friends. A lot if them do Gina Ford style routines hmm and don't really get the whole ap thing...

Hopefully I can chat on here about it instead! grin

Natmu Sun 13-Jan-13 04:45:18

Welcome Nickname. This is the perfect place to chat about ap and HN babies! Support and advice here couldn't be better. I'm extra lucky as I have a friend in RL who also has a HN baby but it can feel very isolated at times when all around you are spouting Gina Ford. Load of old nonsense IMO.

Tell us about your LO. How are you coping? I was still in meltdown when DS2 was 8 weeks but you sound pretty chipper. What strategies have you found?

<sidles in>

<scoffs cheesecake and wine>

<replaces with cinnamon apple crumble and custard>

<sidles out>

ticklemyboobsofsteel Tue 15-Jan-13 09:29:25

<wanders in, in a daze>

<spies crumble and custard>

<scoffs a piece> <licks fingers>

<spies leftover brew from days ago>


Any caffeine will do right now, I'm not fussy! DS has been DREADFUL the last two nights. He's 18 months in two days and seems to have hit the 18-month sleep regression/developmental period bang on time. He refused his afternoon nap with a vengeance yesterday - never heard anything like it! He's been up every two hours again, just like his entire first 13 months. Argh! Plus he has canines, a cough and cold and I suspect 2-year molars on the way too. Poor little fella. Spent the last two nights with him in his nursery. This too shall pass... <repeats ad finitum).

I hope you are all doing okay - have a lovely Tuesday!

<leaves out freshly brewed brew and tray of naice biscuit>

Blimey, he doesn't do things by halves does he? confused

We're puttering along the same as usual here. I tried introducing small amounts of dairy back into my diet as DS is now one (I even had a creme egg - it was bliss!). Sadly after 48 hours he spent the night crying with cramps, wind, writhing and nasty poo, just like when he was tiny. So I'm back off the dairy again.

Nightmoves Tue 15-Jan-13 20:30:17

<pours big brew coffe and adds lots of sugar>

Joyful!! Good to see you. Too bad about the dairy. Hope you made the most of it. At least you got to sample a cream egg, 'tis the season apparently.

Tickle at least your DS is punctual with his regressions. Hope it passes quickly. We are still in 9 month hell with 2hr 'up and want to play' session added to our list of nightly complaints. Mainly 3-5. So so hard to get him back down. And the rolling, standing, sitting, lying, rolling!! It is almost like a compulsion. I swear he could be fast asleep in my arms and I think I have cracked it, when he wrenches himself away in an attempt to sit, still half asleep. Mental. He also has a bad cough. We co-sleep
So can't raise the bed and am wary about pillows. Any tips ladies?

Hope you are all muddling along.

Natmu Wed 16-Jan-13 03:29:02

Oh my fucking GOD!! I have been struggling with a writhing screaming baby for HOURS! He is driving me INSANE!!! I don't have a clue what's wrong. Had wind, burped, did a big poo, changed nappy, gave Calpol for teeth, walked up and down ad infinitim, now feeding again purely because he can't cry with a boob in his mouth. So I'm crying instead.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Wed 16-Jan-13 09:39:00

<hug> Natmu. I hope you managed to get some rest. Had our worst night yet here. Was awake for an hour and a half from 9pm refusing to go in his cot after he coughed himself awake, wouldn't settle in between DH and I, so again I ended up with him cuddled up with me on the sofa. Got him in his cot eventually (fast asleep) at 11.30pm but then from 3am onwards he was with me again. Poor little fella - it's so hard seeing them ill, and it feels like he's been poorly for weeks now. He was just shouting and shouting, even though we were right next to him - when are they old enough to understand that shouting that loud with a sore throat is only going to make it worse?!

I feel shattered, but at least I work from home mostly so don't have to get up to commute. I do tomorrow morning though <prays for a better night tonight>

DH and DS cuddled up on the sofa with Ceebeebees on. It's about all we can muster for now. Seems to distract DS from his cough/cold/teeth though, so I'm not worried about too much TV today.

I hope you ladies are doing okay this morning. Work beckons. Sigh.

<re-inserts caffeine drip>

Natmu Wed 16-Jan-13 13:17:00

Sorry for shouty capitals and sweary post in the night blush Thanks for hugs Tickle. Sorry to hear DS is ill. Hope he improves very soon. Ceebeebies perfect for times like these. Anything goes as a distraction when they're ill. Good luck with the sleep tonight <hugs>.

(((hugs))) and brew for everyone

Nothing new to report sleepwise here. However we're currently waiting to see whether DD develops chicken pox, as there's been a case at her preschool. And this morning I saw my GP for a medication review and for the first time in my life was absolutely honest about my mental health. As a result I've been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and am being referred to a psychiatrist. confused

Natmu Thu 17-Jan-13 20:04:46

Oh my word joyful. What a momentous day. How do you feel about it? It must have taken a lot of courage to open up like that. I have just started a thread in mental health today about my BIL who has undiagnosed problems. What do you think led you to talk about it all today?brew or wine for you depending on how you're feeling!

Thanks Natmu. I started a thread the other day about TimeToChange's new campaign, about being open about mental health and it got me thinking. So I wrote down all my symptoms and it was a rather longer list than I expected. DH suggested that I give the list to the GP (I really struggle to talk face-to-face about this stuff) so I did. And voila, I'm even more nuts than we thought! grin

Nightmoves Thu 17-Jan-13 20:25:37

That must have been really difficult joyful. Well done. Sounds like you have a good GP too. Hope your referral doesn't take too long to come through for you and that you're feeling positive about the whole thing.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Thu 17-Jan-13 21:26:33

I think I'm going to go fucking insane if DS's cough/cold/teeth/sleep regression combo doesn't fuck the fuck off soon! He's beyond shattered and so are we. Please, please, please let him sleep a while so we can!

(sorry about the swears. It's been a long, long, long week)

Joyful You know how proud I am of you for what you achieved today. I hope you'll be referred quickly and you can begin to feel better.

MIL taken another downturn, but won't talk too much about that.

Sigh. DS coughed awake for the zillionth time since he crashed out at 6.15. I'm struggling sad

Natmu Thu 17-Jan-13 22:00:19

tickle I'm really feeling for you. It's got to start getting better soon I'm sure. Not much I can say other than I feel your fucking pain and ((hugs)) Find some strength inside. You will make it.

Joyful I saw your other thread and wondered if that had jogged you into action.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Fri 18-Jan-13 00:56:56

Wrote a message but MN ate it.

Thanks Natmu. Appreciate the hugs.

Something just happened with DH, and as a result I feel completely and utterly shit. Completely unreasonably probably, but I don't think I've felt as unvalued as I do right now. Just tired, probably. I was trying to give DS some nurofen and he spat it out (granted I tried to give him it when he was screaming, so bad idea but was desperate for him to take it and try and sleep) and so I came downstairs to our bedroom as I needed a break (I've dealt with 90% of his night wakings since he's been ill, slept holding him, etc). DS cried more because I left the room but I needed just a little bit of distance. Told DH I'd had enough, which was probably a bit overdramatic. He threw back the bedcovers, got up and told me in what felt like a not very nice manner to 'go to sleep'. I asked why he was being like that and that I'd dealt with DS for the last three awful nights and just needed a break,and he just said 'I'm not getting into an argument with you, tickle' and went upstairs and turned the monitor off.

So now I'm sat here, fucked off, worried, sad and wide awake, and in tears.

Natmu Fri 18-Jan-13 02:44:20

Oh Tickle sad

Don't worry. I hope you jumped back into bed and left him to it. However D our H's are they don't seem to appreciate the phenomenal pressure it is to have one of these little ones reliant on you all the time. I would have been the same in your situation except I probably would have hurled the syringe across the room and come storming back down screaming and crying hysterically. Go easy on yourself. You don't need yourself as another critical judge. DH will get over it and hopefully experience for himself what a difficult job you've been doing and therefore show a little bit of appreciation.

Hope you have managed to get some sleep.

((((Hugs)))) and brew

ticklemyboobsofsteel Fri 18-Jan-13 03:56:21

Thank you lady. Managed an hour or so, couldn't keep my brain from racing. Just been up to feed the wee man and the atmosphere was fine, so perhaps a tiny overreaction on my part. He's told me to go back downstairs to sleep, bless him. So here I am. He's got DS sleeping on the sofa while he lays on cushions next to him to stop him rolling off!

DH is who DS is most reliant on during the day so he does know how it is. I think we were both a bit tired and frustrated earlier. Thank you for your kind words though.

It's drs for DS tomorrow though, his cough is atrocious.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Fri 18-Jan-13 03:56:57

I hope you are having a decent night Natmu

Natmu Fri 18-Jan-13 04:54:05

Sorry, bit unfair of me to your poor DH! Mine doesn't take much of the strain from me baby-wise although does lots of cleaning etc.

We're having a rubbish night again because of DS's eczema. Poor little man is so itchy he keeps trying to claw at his neck. We've got a paed's appointment on 12th Feb to start ball rolling for allergy testing. It can't come fast enough.

Glad you're feeling a bit better tickle. Hope the GP is helpful.

Just been reading a controlled crying thread, and once again I'm confused by the term 'He just grizzles'. I have never heard DS grizzle. He goes from 0-60 full on screaming with tears in seconds. I have never heard him just moaning.

Natmu Fri 18-Jan-13 13:10:32

Same here little! I know some babies do it because DS1 did but not number 2. Oh no!

Nightmoves Fri 18-Jan-13 20:25:45

tickle hope you have a better night tonight. Last night was horrendous for me too. Waking every 45 mins to an hour. All sodding night. Was like a zombie today. Thank god managed to get my head down for an hour with DS at lunchtime. Haven't felt that bad for ages, was like early days of bf all over again. Took him to gp today for cough and as his ears seem to be bothering him in the vain hope I would be given some magic pills to make everything ok but no infection so just carry on with the calpol. I really wish DH would sleep somewhere else sometimes as watching him be sound asleep while I sit up rocking a coughing/crying/sitting/standing DS multiple times in the middle of the night drives me insane. We have also had harsh words this week. How did you get on at doctors?

natmu hope you have a less itchy night.

little likewise with the CC. DS could outlast me with this approach definitely and think he knows it too grin

ticklemyboobsofsteel Fri 18-Jan-13 20:40:32

Thank you again for your kind words ladies. In the light of day things are fine. Sleep deprivation takes you to some funny places doesn't it. Before DS, DH and I never argued, were never snarky at each other.

We didn't make it to the GP today as we all slept in a little late. I didn't surface until about 8.45am DS didn't wake for the day until 9.30am (he's normally up between 6.30 and 7pm). If you don't call our doctors as soon as it opens, there's no chance of an appointment. If there is no change by Monday morning, I'll take him.

He's been a bit brighter today, cough is still horrid though. DH held him in the bathroom while I had a really hot shower and then got in the shower with him once it cooled a little - heard that steam helps coughs/colds. It was so sweet seeing DH and DS sitting together under the shower, catching the water in their hands. Keeping fingers crossed that he has a better night - it's going better this evening so far than it has the last four nights, but I don't want to jinx anything.

Poor itchy DS Natmu sad I hope he is a little better tonight. And same to you Night. <sprinkles liberal amounts of sleepy dust over the bubs and toddlers>

Was thinking earlier about other early high-needs support ladies that I've not seen about in a long while - Littlewaveylines, Mampig, QK and any others who might still be reading - hope you and your little ones are all doing ok.

FredKiller Sat 19-Jan-13 12:42:34

Hey tickleme! How weird, I was just reading this thread again and I got a shout out from you. It's QK here, under another guise. I kind of lost you guys, partly because my smartphone broke sad and partly because DS went through a very brief period of sleeping a bit better.

So he's 19mo now and from about 12-17mo, I could feed him to sleep at 7pm and he'd wake up once or twice. It was bliss and I even had an evening out!

Anyway, as I'm back visiting the sleep board you may have guessed that's all gone to pot now. He wakes up 4-5 times a night now and won't settle until I'm on his mattress with him, in what I call his "squat". Seriously, I have such envy of other mothers with gorgeous little nurseries! No idea what's going on, obviously I make the old teething/cold excuses. Starting to wonder if there is down thing wrong with him, although everything else seems on track and he's a right old chatterbox.

DH has been making weaning/CC noises. This is partly because he wants another baby, but (although I am ovulating and AF returned at 11 months) I am ovulating very late in my cycle. Apparently this is common for bfing mothers.

So that's you all caught up with me - what's new with you gals?

<smooches everyone>

FredKiller Sat 19-Jan-13 12:53:49

Tickle - having just reread the thread in more detail, I spy your post about an 18 month regression/development post. Tell me more. I had thought all the official regressions had passed by now, but would explain a lot

<eyes DS, napping with a nipple in his mouth like a newborn>

<gathers Joyful up for an extra smooch after reading her posts>

ticklemyboobsofsteel Sat 19-Jan-13 13:46:30

Yay QK/Fred smile Good to hear from you - glad you at least had a few months of decent-ish sleep and a night out! Lucky girl, you!

As you can probably gather, things here are a bit tough. DS has been poorly for ages now, first with sickness/diaorrhea and now with a horrid cough and cold. And teething. And yep, I thought we were done with regressions to, but apparently not. Here's a link I found: 18-month sleep regression Once again, this too shall pass!

We too had months of blissful nights where he would wake up once per night (some nights, shock horror, not even once! Had a couple of those mythical lesser spotted 8pm-7am stretches). I got a night out too! But it's all gone to shit for now at least. DH, thankfully, appreciates how useful The Boob has been while DS has been ill, so under no pressure to wean. I don't know what I'd do without it, to be honest.

We're still living with my dad, but we're hopefully moving out towards the middle of this year. The current plan is, save a specific amount towards a house deposit while we're here - nearly at our target figure, and then move to Brighton/Hove and rent for a while until we find our feet and DH finds work, and then buy a flat there in a year or so while still saving (and hopefully prices might move slightly lower!). There's probably billions of more affordable places we could move to, but that area has always been special for DH and me (we got engaged there) and we've always said it'd be a great place to bring up a child.

Hmm I think that's about all! Goiod to hear from you missus! <smooches right back atcha!>

<smooches Fred> Good to see you! Sorry to hear that DS is being pesky though. I think DD went through a similar stage - certainly at about 18-20 months she was waking anything up to 5 times a night. hmm

Well DS is poorly - not entirely sure what's up but teething and a reaction to this week's vaccines are the top suspects. DD's a little under the weather too, and we're keeping a close eye on her to see whether she's developing chicken pox. <reaches for gin>

However we have lovely snow and more forecast tomorrow so I'm happy. I didn't think we'd ever have snow like this after leaving Wales but we had about 4 inches of beautifully fine, powdery snow yesterday.

FredKiller Sat 19-Jan-13 19:34:31

I hate the snow [grinch emoticon] and it seems DS has inherited this. Do any of your HN babies have a thing about certain clothes? Like DS won't wear a hat or his wellies, which kind of makes playing outside in the snow impossible. He also hates being in anything vaguely uncomfy, like a bit tight or with tight cuffs etc. Is this another HN thing?

Also, can someone talk to me about tantrums? Another HN trait as we seem to have at least one a day? Sigh. Today's was because we couldn't stay pushing the buttons on the lift in the shopping centre all day.

Sorry to hear your babes are poorly tickle and puddle. I think gin is a good idea <reaches for bottle>

TisILeclerc Mon 21-Jan-13 12:33:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TisILeclerc Mon 21-Jan-13 12:33:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Mon 21-Jan-13 22:36:06

Lovely to see you Leclerc smile Sorry to hear your 18-month old is being a pickle as well. It's a bloody killer isn't it sad

DS is on the mend. GP couldn't hear anything on his chest and so just got to keep him all wrapped up and it will pass. Better sleep last night, only woke twice. He's having one nap a day the last couple of days - on Sunday he managed nearly 3 hours... And this from a baby that couldn't nap longer than 30 minutes at one point. His cough is clearing up thankfully, but I've got it now. Joy of joys. Full of cold sad

Hope everyone has a decent night.

Mummy2BI Mon 21-Jan-13 22:54:11

Can I join you lovely ladies?
I have just been reading through this thread and I think ds2 is definitely a HN baby and it's good to know I'm not alone!

Looking back dd was a HN baby but I put it down to her being my first and I didn't know what I was doing, I spent most of her first year wearing her in a sling as that's the only time she wasn't screaming!!
Then I had ds1 and he was an amazing baby, hardly cried, slept through 12 hours by 5 months old and was so laid back (and still is at 4 years old)

Now I have ds2 who is now 6 months old and ebf (just started introducing food), he is only happy if being carried on my hip or being bf!! He screams in the car seat, the pram, whenever put down (can now manage a few minutes if entertained), when having to have his coat put on, he screams at anything basically! He doesn't sleep for long day or night and his favourite place to sleep is on me.

I have been just going along with it but am now getting closer to being due back at work and am starting to panic, how will I cope with such little sleep and how will the childminder cope with ds2 all day??

Sorry for such a long first post but wanted to give you all my info and hoping someone can tell me it will all be okay and he will be an angel while I'm at work?!?

TisILeclerc Tue 22-Jan-13 03:49:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Tue 22-Jan-13 16:30:29

At work, but just wanted to say a quick welcome to Mummy2BI smile Come on in for virtual coffee, cake and matchsticks for eyelid propping!

Hi LeClerc, how are things (apart from DS2 not sleeping)? No advice really but at least you're not the only one! <clutches at straws> <gives up> <brews brew instead>

Welcome Mummy, make yourself at home! I didn't know about HN babies with my first one either, I just thought I was a really awful mum! blush I'm glad you've had the respite of DS1 in between! When are you going back to work? What do you do?

Nothing new here really - the children are both still a little under the weather and we still have no idea whether it's a cold or impending chicken pox. There's another case of the pox at preschool so I expect DD'll get it at some point this term!

TisILeclerc Tue 22-Jan-13 21:27:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mummy2BI Tue 22-Jan-13 21:52:50

Hi and thanks for the welcome!

I'm due back at work at the end of march, I work in a school so going back just before Easter (but then I will get the Easter holidays off work) I work 3 days a week but short days so I can be there to drop off and pick up from school. I enjoy my job but I'm really not looking forward to going back.

Well today has been even worse than normal as Ds2 has been screaming even when I was carrying him which is normally when he is happiest! I'm wondering if it could be more teeth on their way? He already has 2 and they caused a very grumpy few weeks!

Hope everyone else is doing ok?

Welcome Mummy2B smile

Hello dark-circle eyed friendsgrin Friday chocolate fudge cake anyone?

I'm sad today. After 3 weeks of trying to force my boob at DS, I think I have to accept that he doesn't want bfing anymore. I've loved bfing after the initial difficult 12 weeks, and it's such a useful tool for a HN baby. I'll miss it.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Sat 26-Jan-13 09:29:49

Oh little, bless you. Could it be a nursing strike do you think? Have you looked on the Kellymom website for help? (I seem to remember that's a good one). I can't imagine DS ever giving up the boob. It is blimmin useful though.

We had our best night last night since DS has been ill. He went to bed at 8pm and only woke once - at 5.45am - and then was up at 8am. Bliss after the torture of the last few weeks. And much needed after a couple of self-inflicted stupidly late nights playing World of Warcraft with the new MN guild. I never realised quite how many other MNetters play!

Hope you all have a great day.

Nightmoves Sat 26-Jan-13 12:00:18

<stumbles into room too tired to walk but manages a massive bit of yesterday's fudge cake. Still yummy after a minute in the microwave>

Congrats tickle. I am so envious. Let's hope it's just the start of many more amazing sleeps.

Little that is indeed sad. A totally baby-led end to bf though is amazing. I really hope DS decides on his own to stop before I feel the need to encourage him. Can't see it though...

We had one good night last Sunday where he slept 2 hours from first going to bed (amazing) then only woke another 2 times until morning. I can't remember if I posted about this so apologies if I am repeating. Since then the nights have been rubbish. Maybe I'm feeling it more because I allowed myself to get my hopes up? I think nearly a year of this is just taking its toll. We are going to move the big cotbed into our room to see if this helps (we co-sleep but thinking we are too close to each other now DS is bigger, maybe waking each other up?). Still determined not to sleep train till a year old at least, but sick of feeling so fed up and depressed. I know it is just lack of sleep but it's so draining. That's not to say there haven't been improvements over the last few months, there have (longer naps, not so high needs during the day) but finding it difficult to focus on the positive. It is harder to cope during the day even though DS is easier to entertain. DH is making a real effort to be more helpful but just ends up annoying me more, especially at night. Feel like such a bitch <big sigh, sniffle>. Sorry guys. Hope you are all feeling more positive.

Thank you tickle and Night, I am a hormonal mess today! Hope that settles down soon! I think it's gone beyond a nursing strike now. He was mix fed, so I think it's good he's managed this long without expressing a preference for bottles.

Great news on the better sleep tickle. Hope you get some more of those!
Night, when DS turned 12 months, his sleep started to improve drastically. Now he generally only wakes for one resettle and one bottle at about 1 and 5. He's still difficult in the day but not quite as bad. I hope 12m is a magic age for you too!

Natmu Sat 26-Jan-13 20:37:31

Little it must be so hard to accept giving up the boob. I remember last time with DS1 I was really reluctant. Dreading it this time too as I know this is definitely the last time. No more DC for us!

I am praying that weaning is going to make a difference for us. You'll probably all dash my hopes! DS2 is 5 months in a few days so not long to wait. He's still feeding every 3 hours 24/7 so I'm hoping a bit of solid food might fill him up a bit more. It's so hard to see an end to all the problems when you're in the middle of it. I feel like he's going to be in my bed with me forever. DH and I still sleeping in different rooms as DH can't cope with the disturbances.

Anyone heard from Joyful recently? I hope she's ok after everything that happened.

<hands out oaty chocolate chip cookies>

It is hard and I've been tempted to try today but I need to let it go really. Hopefully I'll get the chance to do it again, I'd love to ebf next time.

Sadly, weaning didn't help here! I weaned early (DS lost weight at 5 months) but it didn't help sleep. I think it does help loads of people though. DS still fed every hour or 2 until he was over 6 months!

Think I've cursed myself saying he's sleeping better. He's wide awake now and keeps putting his dummy in my mouths and laughing hysterically.

I have seen Joyful in chat. Hopefully she will drop in soon.

Natmu Sun 27-Jan-13 07:19:55

That's so cute Little. I suppose a laughing baby is slightly better than a screaming one? Did he go back off in the end? Hope you had a better night than us. We were up from about midnight until 4.30am with alternate eczema itching and blocked nose. I've got family coming over for dinner today too so looking forward to a day of exhaustion <sob>.

Oh no Natmu, that's rubbish sad Eczema is such a tricky one to manage.
He did go to sleep soon after that...not a case of going back to sleep though, it was when he first went to bed. He continued the theme this morning my 'feeding' me. Mmmm.

I hope you get a better night tonight.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Sun 27-Jan-13 13:08:10

Sorry you've had rough nights ladies. Hope you manage to put your feet up some today.

I spoke to Joyful yesterday, she said to say hello to you all. Things are a little hard at the moment, but she's a strong lady that one, and so I'm sure she'll be back with us soon smile

I have had a cold now for what feels like forever. It's truly getting on my tits. So full of snot and phlegm, bleh. Have been through so many packs of tissues and am halfway through a box now. DS is over his for the most part though, which is a relief.

Hope you all have good days. It's my birthday tomorrow, and DH made me a video of lots of little clips of DS growing up as part of my gift. It delivered a day early by accident, but it's amazing and I've been all tearful since watching it. How our baby has changed in a few short months...

Natmu Sun 27-Jan-13 19:03:19

Happy Birthday for tomorrow Tickle! thanks and wine Hope you have a lovely day. What a gorgeous thoughtful present!

We've got an appointment with paed on 12th Feb to start the ball rolling about finding out what DS2 might be allergic to. He's definitely having reactions to something. Keeps coming up with great red hives on his neck where his eczema is worst.

Fingers crossed for a better night tonight and to you Little.

Happy birthday for tomorrow tickle! Hope you have a lovely day tomorrow.

Too many tomorrows!

ticklemyboobsofsteel Mon 28-Jan-13 08:57:56

Aww many thanks smile Had lovely cards and gifts from DS and DH. Money is tight at the moment as we're feverishly saving for a house deposit, but DH got me a couple of really thoughtful things - including a book about the children of Henry viii (am a massive Tudor nerd!).

DS slept well, only waking at 3am. Hope you all had good/better nights too.

Nice present off DS for you tickle - a decent night's sleep!

Nightmoves Mon 28-Jan-13 11:40:43

Happy birthday tickle. Your DH sounds very thoughtful. No wonder you were tearing up! I would have been bawling my eyes out! Am bad enough looking at old pics. Have a lovely rest of birthday.

Kafri Tue 29-Jan-13 20:33:18

Hi folks, someone linked me to this thread after all my moaning about my ds not stooping crying - ever.

He's 6 weeks and cries every waking hour. He is rarely content. If he isn't crying he's simmering and it's an endless effort to keep it at bay.
Reading the OP, he fits criteria 3,4,5&6 tho fir short naps read no naps.

I'm tearing my hair out now!

Natmu Tue 29-Jan-13 21:19:04

Hi Kafri. At 6 weeks I was tearing my hair out too. It does get better but it seems to take longer than with other babies. They just seem to need us more. My DS2 is 5 months on Friday and still waking 4 or 5 times a night on a good night. I have found that co-sleeping for us helps me to be able to function like a semi normal human being during the day (I also have DS1 who is 4) and a sling wrap has allowed me to get around and do some bits without being tied to the sofa all day. Have you tried a sling? DS2 is much calmer in the sling. I only wish I'd got it sooner.

He's gradually becoming a bit better during the day at least and everyone on here has been a brilliant help. Hope you are having a half decent evening.

Kafri Wed 30-Jan-13 04:56:41

The odd thing is, and I don't want to curse myself here, he seems ok overnight. We started off where he would only sleep upright on somebody which is why we suspected silent reflux.
Now, we may not be able to get him in his Moses basket still but he sleeps well and ive started to get more comfortable with taking him to bed with me. So 9pm thru til 5am he's fab. When he wakes fir feed he's smiley and lovely.
Once we hit 5 am he changes. He's awake the whole day-if I do manage to get him down its half hour max so he gets overtired. And as I've said earlier, the crying is CONSTANT. it's like I have two different children and I remember my labour clearly enough to know I only had 1 ;-)

Hello all, thought I would join your thread rather than starting my own!

DS is 7 and a half months now. Has always been very high needs but was also mixed in with things like tongue tie and resulting breastfeeding problems which are still ongoing so wondered if that was the real issue. As well as high needs he is also unbelievably strong which is a blessing as well as a curse, before he could crawl at 5 months he was constantly frustrated, but happy to say that he is soooo much better since crawling! He is now walking and thats improved things further too, so hope that gives some mums dealing with non mobile HN babes some hope!

However, sleep is still awful. I was wondering....anyone cosleeping with HN baby?we have been cosleeping since he was born and like many say we do get more sleep this way but he still wakes every hour on average, alot of the time its 15 -30 minutes!

I just wonder whether this is still the high needs in him or if something else is going on.Anyone else had this happen? It has always been the same, the only one good night I had he woke just 3 times and that was because he was sick :-(

Natmu Sun 03-Feb-13 21:28:12

We are co-sleeping too and it sounds exactly the same. DS2 wakes a minimum of 3 times a night but at least we get some sleep sometimes.

Nightmoves Tue 05-Feb-13 20:11:43

Hello!! <lays out tray of empire biscuits and refreshes very, very stale brew>

Just thought I'd check in. I can only assume all other HN babies are no longer so and are sleeping wonderfully <stifles sob>. We are still having a good 6 wake ups during the night at least. Sometimes though, and it's only sometimes, we are getting an hour and 20 before first wake up instead of 45 mins so that's something. There doesn't seem to be any specific reason why this happens some nights and not others. Of course. We are thinking of trying to cram DS cot bed into our room next to our bed with the side off in the hope that a little more space may improve things and get DS used to sleeping there. Can't make things worse, can it?

Hope you're all well. Hugs and positive thoughts to joyful if you are still lurking.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Tue 05-Feb-13 21:26:01

<waves at Night> <scoffs biscuits, sips brew>

Been unbelievably busy at work the last week or two - I've been trying not to go on the computer/iPad in the evenings to try and save my poor eyes!

DS has been sleeping pretty crap lately. Better night last night after a 2-nap day (he's been having one most days) so can only assume he is just a bit over tired and teething, but aren't they always?

Going to crawl into bed shortly as have a crushing headache sad Take care all of you, hope you're getting some better sleep.

SpannerPants Mon 11-Feb-13 07:14:32

Hello ladies, hope you're all ok!

I haven't been around much because DS has been sleeping pretty well for 6 weeks now - either sleeping through it waking once, having a feed and going straight back to sleep in his cot! I never thought this would happen but there have been no tears, and he even self settles when he wakes himself up coughing!

Natmu Mon 11-Feb-13 20:18:14

Hello all. I'm having a bit of a stress and wondered what you thought. I've got to go back to work in May (3 days p/w) and MIL will be doing school run and looking after DS2 full time. Atm DS2 is happy with her as long as he is in a good mood but if he's tired or upset he just goes absolutely crazy and she just can't calm him down. We had made a plan to drop him off once a week with her so that I could have a couple hours to myself and he could start to get used to her but when we dropped him off last week he spent pretty much the whole time screaming. She managed to calm him down enough for a half hour sleep by sticking him in the buggy. I'm just really worried that he's going to seriously suffer by getting so stressed out for 3 days in a row every week. Any bright ideas or suggestions? Everyone keeps saying to me that it's still a long time away and he will have changed a lot in that time etc. but I'm not convinced.

Natmu Tue 12-Feb-13 13:02:03

Having a rubbish day. MIL has been on phone again saying that DS will never learn to cope with being left unless he goes cold turkey. My suggestion was to spend some time at MIL's house with DS so that he could get used to it. She has agreed but doesn't think it will work. And now even my best friend is saying 'well they do play you a bit don't they babies? My DD is very good at turning on the waterworks'. Does that apply to a 5 month old? Is he turning on the waterworks. He screams and cries with genuine tears which stop as soon as I pick him up. Is this 'playing' me? God I'm so confused.

Nightmoves Tue 12-Feb-13 19:50:25

Just my opinion but I think 5 months is too young to be playing you. I think their wants are still needs at that stage. Also think your suggestion of spending time the 3 of you is a goodie. Also, during these sessions she could be with him primarily and you could pop in and out, running errands etc so he learns that you come back? Maybe MIL can also come up with a new way to calm him when your not about by observing you? I'm sure by May he will be happier and you'll feel better about leaving him. In my experience the people who accuse your baby of manipulation are also the 'rod for your own back' gang and smiling and nodding on the outside whilst uttering expletives in your head is the best way forward.

Natmu Wed 13-Feb-13 02:09:28

Thanks Nightmoves. I said to DH yesterday I wish I was one of those people who could just ignore other people's comments and believe in my own decisions but I take everything to heart and constantly question my own judgement.

The day did get a bit better in the end yesterday. We saw a paed registrar for our first appointment re allergies. She listened to everything we had to say and took it all very seriously. She prescribed him 3 new meds for eczema and reflux there and then and referred him to allergy clinic for skin prick tests. She gave us loads of advice about weaning and controlling the eczema. It's so nice to be listened to and taken seriously!

Nightmoves Wed 13-Feb-13 04:05:21

That's really good. You hear so often on forums about not being taken seriously. It really makes you doubt your ability. Hope all the suggestions and new meds help. I am also rubbish at taking my own advice and generally put too much stock in what other people say. Going with your gut is definitely the way forward. It's hard though sometimes when others don't seem to have the same problems, and being chronically sleep deprived makes things worse. Oh the joys...

ticklemyboobsofsteel Wed 13-Feb-13 17:49:40

<welcomes Kafri and Moresnow>

<waves at Spanner, Natmu and Night

Ello all - tis a little quiet around these parts lately, just thought I'd pop by and check in smile

Span Glad your little one is sleeping better! Long may it continue.
Natmu I too sometimes can't ignore other people and take a lot of things right to the heart. I'm glad you had some progress at the paed for you and your little one. Oh, and 5 months is definately too young to be playing you.
Night Did you move your bub's cot into your room like you planned? Any joy?

Have good nights all.

Nightmoves Wed 13-Feb-13 22:33:29

Hi tickle, yes we moved it in on Sunday. Would only fit on the opposite side of the bed to where DS has been settling, but it just fits. He was so excited he spent a good half hour leaping and crawling about, far too busy to go to sleep. Eventually despite all my efforts he leapt one too many times and was promptly sick all down his pjs (but not the bedding thankfully), at which point I just settled him on our usual side away from the cot. Tonight was the first night I managed to get him to sleep in it, I confess by lying in the carefully stuffed gap and feeding to sleep, but he woke after 45. He is nestled next to me again now. So not a massive success. Yet <crosses fingers optimistically>. He has not been himself last 2 days though (fecking teeth) so maybe unfair to judge at the mo. Thank you for asking. How is your LO doing? Been any more settled?

Natmu Wed 13-Feb-13 23:38:15

Thanks both of you. We had an even worse day today sad Went to the local garden centre for some bits. Drive there was ok. DS2 asleep. He woke up halfway round the garden centre but was quite happy in the buggy. Cut to drive home and DS2 screamed the whole way back. DH completely lost it and started shouting 'FFS I'm never going anywhere with him again. He's ruining our lives. He's f-ing pathetic if he can't even go ten minutes in the car without being cuddled. YOU need to let him cry so he can get f-ing used to it' etc etc. DH is known for his temper and had had about 2 hours sleep so wasn't in the best frame of mind. I don't really know why I'm posting about all this actually because it's all blown over again as it usually does but I just find him really hard to deal with at times and when he says stuff like that about my 5 month old baby I just feel insanely protective towards him and hate DH for saying this stuff which is a bit unfair because I have my meltdown moments too.

Nightmoves Thu 14-Feb-13 11:37:37

I can totally understand why you would feel angry at your DH saying those things. It must be so frustrating for the DHs but I would (and do) feel exactly the same if (when) my DH said things like that. He is just a wee baby and still so young! He is just very determined and lets you know loudly when things aren't too his liking, at least that's what I tell myself! I also tell DH that its DS's super survival skills and Darwinism in action as DS is keeping himself close to his care givers to make sure he is protected, and these traits will be positive for everybody in the future. We had an episode recently at 3am when DS wouldnt go back to sleep where DH exclaimed 'ffs this isn't normal' (he says this often and I hate the implication that DS might somehow be abnormal), then punched the mattress a few times, got up and stormed through to the living room. I was most upset the whole following day. Honestly, it is like having an extra child sometimes!! They really just need to man up at times I feel. That's good it's all resolved for you though. It's good to be able to vent on here, makes you feel better. Think my friends are sick of me whining about it!

Natmu Thu 14-Feb-13 20:58:31

Yes mine too. Thanks for your solidarity Nightmoves. It sounds like our DH's have very similar reactions. Mine has also frequently said that DS is not normal. I like the idea of his Darwinism being in action though!

I had a lovely chat today with one of my friend's mums. She is of the same generation as MIL but her attitude was completely different. She was so positive and encouraging to me about having the courage of my convictions and not letting others shake my self belief. Hope you have had a good day and will be able to have a good night.

Nightmoves Sat 16-Feb-13 13:28:00

Afternoon all!
natmu I have thought this before about our DHs. Our MILs sound pretty similar too, no small wonder there!! Hope there are no probs this weekend.

The cot has been in our room for 6 nights now and DS has managed 2 hours in it the last 3 nights with one settling after an hour each time. After that he sleeps next to me due to my laziness extreme tiredness. Is that progress? I'm really not sure... At least he is getting used to his own bed slowly but surely I suppose. He is 1 at the end of march, which is when I promised DH that a drastic plan could be made so am getting a bit nervous now. Keep telling myself that as I am the one who gets up it is ultimately my decision and if I don't want to sleep train then that's that. Maybe a bit hard on DH though. We really have no time together at the moment.

Hope everyone is having a nice weekend.

Natmu Sun 17-Feb-13 04:18:21

Nightmoves I gave up on the whole cot scenario months ago. As you say, even if there is no massive progress at least your DS is getting used to the idea of the cot. My DS doesn't have a clue what a cot is! Like you, I think the only way to do things with these babies is little by little. I said to DH that I'm not doing cc but that he's welcome to try if he feels strongly about it. As the chances of him getting out of bed for either of the kids is pretty much zero I think we're safe.

DS2 has been driving me bonkers tonight. He's about to start solids but has been waking every 2 hours for milk. I'm so tired it's just not funny. Hope your night is better than mine!

ClimbingPenguin Sun 17-Feb-13 21:54:49

<pops back in>

Hello everyone

natmu how awful that DH lost it like that. I hate that some people can't accept that some babies don't learn by crying and they just get more distressed. DH was fully on board with DS.

At 16 months DS now does his nap in the cot and is starting to have nights of going to sleep in the cot. He has never done a full night in it though. For a whole month around 10 months he gt to sleep in the cot by patting/shushing, however the process never took less than 45mins, normally an hour, so we went back to rocking/laying. To be honest he only really took to laying next to us regularly when he was 13 months and we are still grateful to be in that phase. We are also just happy that he mostly sleeps between night feeds, so that fact they are still every 3 hours isn't too bad for us.

He is really out of being cling in the day time now, unless he is particularly tired. When he does play, he plays for longer than his nearly 3 year old sister and doesn't require constant input like she does.

She was high needs in a different way, woke and fed every two hours until she was about 15 months. Wakes at least once most nights now. Requires a lot of input, however if you give it to her she is happy. She was never clingy, would have her fed and then either roll over to go to sleep or was happy to be put down in her cot. He was predictable so the two hourly wasn't a problem and she was either awake or asleep. People used to be horrified for us, but it was fine. DS was the one who nearly broke me.

bonbonpixie Mon 18-Feb-13 00:14:41

Hi everyone. May I join? Can't believe DD is 9 months now and I have just found this thread. Actually it couldn't have come at a better time/worse time. As today has been so so challenging. I've spent most the day in tears thinking I was the worst parent in the world. I read the Dr Sears links almost crying with relief as DDs behaviour mirrors just so many of those listed there. We are co-sleeping and are still bf ALOT both day and night, generally she is a very poor sleeper and wakes upwards of 6x in the night. DH when at home (he works overseas for a month at a time, 4 or 5 times per year or more) is sleeping in a spare room and really doesn't see much of me in the evening. So i think is getting very jealous and resentful. Add on top of that the near constant moaning, crying to full screaming if she is unhappy several times an hour, refusing most solids, eczema, possible allergies (but actually I haven't a clue if I'm on the right track with these) plus all of the normal teething stuff DH finds her pretty impossible. It just breaks my heart that he has so little patience with her and such unrealistic expectations of a 9 months old. We don't have any family close by, all a very long plane journey away and it's all getting a bit intense. I really don't know where to go from here. I've spoken to the HV about DD but she is not much help and I don't really know what support is available in terms of detecting possible allergies/reflux so probably I'm not asking the correct questions. I would love for us to be able to enjoy our baby the way our friends do with theirs and I'm so tried of making excuses for DD grumpiness. So sorry for the long post. In the next few weeks we are going to attempt to get her out of our bed and into her cot. Just reading that some of you are on the start road with cots just now - fingers crossed it works for you.
Also we decided that after today we will put DD in nursery for two days per week soon. DH thinks it will solve all of our problems but I just don't see how it can possibly work as the longest she has been apart from me is about 3 hours in her whole life! Has anyone any tips about the transition to nursery? Actually would really appreciate any advice at all. Thanks for "listening" to the rant. Feeling a lot better now I know there are others going through similar!

Hi everyone. Sorry I've been very absent recently. This is because DS sleeps through now and I can leave him to play in his play pen while I do the housework and stuff.


Not really. He's awful at the moment. My body aches every day when I 'wake' up because of hauling him around everywhere.

Sorry to hear about some difficult times. I will try and catch up properly soon.

<chucks cake around to everyone and tries to put DS down so I can have a brew>

Hugs all round.

Hi everyone, sorry I've been absent so long. I've been really struggling to interact with people I 'know' and have just kind of shut myself away. But I have my psychiatric assessment on Thursday and hopefully that will start me on the right path. It's only taken me 20 odd years to get to this point! hmm

I had my spinal consultation as well and have been referred to a surgeon to discuss whether I'd be a candidate for discectomies and/or spinal fusion. confused

In addition to all that DD had chicken pox for 10 days, and after a few days break DS now has it. Unfortunately he has it far worse than she did and of course doesn't understand what's going on. There's even less sleep than usual happening here!

Hi pixie, make yourself at home! Sorry you're having such a tough time. You mentioned allergies - what kind are you suggesting? And why, if you don't mind me asking? Try not to stress too much about the solids, DS barely ate any solids till about that age and tbh he's still not a great eater. Your milk will be giving her all the extra calories she needs though. smile

Nightmoves Mon 18-Feb-13 21:51:44

When I read your first paragraph I was like 'no way!!!! What magic has little performed? Amazing!!!'. Now disappointed for you but slightly relieved also.

Nightmoves Mon 18-Feb-13 21:54:12

Joyful good to hear from you. Good luck for Thursday and hope the chicken pox pass soon. It must be so horrible when they don't understand. So unfair.

bonbonpixie Mon 18-Feb-13 23:44:38

Oh no the dreaded pox! Joyful you must be so stressed and poor itchy babies. There has been a bit of an outbreak where we are in Scotland and I must admit to being very paranoid about DD catching them, DH is away again soon and I just don't think I could cope with her being that sick on my own. I've become that mother scanning all of the babies at our groups for spots or scratching! I must look as crazy as I feel!

The thing about allergies is pretty vague. DD had reflux as a little baby, so lots of back arching and lots of vomiting. She was prescribed ranitidine and I also gave up milk/soya. So far so good. Then we had a few months of mad travelling to places where I couldn't remain dairy free but actually it didn't seem to make a difference. We had to stop ranitidine at this point too. Then whilst at home in October we noticed a rash on DD chin and two week later she was covered in infant eczema. It wasn't so bad at first and really didn't seem to bother her but is now quite bad, especially round her neck and underarms. If left unsupervised she will scratch these areas until they bleed. So now we are dairy free again and it's improved up to a point but still needs managing. Problem is we tried so many different things at once to solve it I'm not sure which is helping. I'd really like it not to be the dairy as DD eats so little as it is and it's so calorie rich. Plus yogurt is the only thing she will reliably eat! Sorry again for the long post.

Actually we have had a bit of improvement on the eating front today. DD will eat, whatever I give her it seems as long as I jump about in front of her like a loon. And I mean serious jumping, I feel like I'm doing aerobics. If other babies respond to the same maybe we should set up a cabaret act!

Oh my god! First night ever with no night feed (well bottle since he self weaned). We've had hourly waking for 3 weeks (back teeth, croup and developmental leap) but last night he slept in his cot from 8:45-4:15 and then straight back to sleep in with me until 7! I'm in shock and kicking myself for deciding to make some casseroles instead of going to bed.
Usual clinging monkey today though! However I find this easier to deal with when I don't have to go to work.

I hope I'm not the only one with good news.

bonbon, I am laughing at your dinner time bouncing grin

The things we do.

ClimbingPenguin Tue 19-Feb-13 12:28:52

Does any one else's babies not like being touched. DS is a clingy baby and very cuddly, but I do hold him under his legs and let him drape over me. He actually hates having his hands, legs held or when people (i.e. his sister) try to cuddle him in the normal way. Took me a while to work this out.

CabbageHead Wed 20-Feb-13 10:40:25

Hello all,

I am newbie but am old so may take me a while to figure out this techno conversation..

I have a 9mth high needs DS and it feels so wonderful to finally say that for the first time! (as nobody believes me!!!)

he is not as high needs as some of yours, but fits most of the criteria, traumatic birth, reflux, major separation anxiety, screamer at bedtime/pram/car until 6mths old, only slept upright on me, better now, won't settle for anyone else, won't sleep anywhere except cot (!), only if it's very dark and loud white noise, super curious and super active, overstimulated and OT all the time.. demanding, vocal, very placid in front of others mostly (so I look like a liar!)Etc etc.

so nice to see your chats and not feel so isolated.

DH went around convincing everyone that DS is perfect baby and not a problem at all (talk about denial!). I have no family here which is ok cos my family are all bonkers anyways and absolutely no help. Have kind well meaning MIL and FIL, 2SIL with normal babies who haven't a clue...

Did sleep school at 7mths (after sending SOS at 4.5mths) and just survived first overseas plane trip phew!

Hate condescending unhelpful paeds, love supportive RNs and mothers who get it

<smiles shyly, offers half devoured packet timtams ... R u kidding who,s got time to bake?!>

Climbing penguin, yeh my DS is fussy and sensitive but what you are experiencing is common with some high needs bubs and can be sensory processing disorder thing too...

Hi Cabbage and welcome.

What are timtams? <hovers over packet hopefully>

I have the opposite problem...DS is so awful in front of other people nobody believes me that he can be 'normal' and cheerful sometimes!
The criteria for this is generally that me and his dad have to be present in the room with him, we have to be in our house with nobody else there and it has to be a day where he's not going to nursery!

Consequently, I'm constantly accused of 'spoiling' him, and 'letting him rule the roost' by people who have had easy babies or no babies!

stargirl1701 Wed 20-Feb-13 20:49:22

Hi everyone. I have been directed here for some much needed support. DD is 5 months old. We are struggling. She has silent reflux and eczema. We've managed to deal with most of the symptoms but are really struggling with sleep. She won't nap unless she is moving (sling, car or pram) and wakes up as soon as we stop moving. I'm finding this really hard as I expected to get a break when the baby slept. We have started a routine from 'the no cry sleep solution' and it is working - she is falling asleep. But, we can't get her into her crib and have started co-sleeping. DH is really unhappy with this.

We are waiting for an appointment with a paediatrician. HV is excellent and phones/pops round at least once a week to see how we are. I try to get out every day to a group but sometimes find myself feeling worse after these. I can't help but notice how content the other babies seem. If DD has a meltdown the shock of the other mums is hard. Family/friends all say the same thing - just leave her to cry. I feel like all I do is syringe medication, which she hates, into her - Ranitidine x3 daily for the reflux and Lactulose x2 daily for the constipation.

I thought if just hang on things will get better. It's early days. But, she's 6 months in a fortnight. My mat leave is half way over. I haven't really enjoyed it at all. God, I'm crying as I write this. I was so worried about giving birth but it was lovely. I had no idea parenting a baby could be this relentless. I feel like I've coped with so much in 5 months (blood poisoning from infective mastitis meaning 8 days in the hospital, an operation to have my perineal stitches redone, fucking tonsillitis, low iron levels) and I don't know how much more I can cope with.

I had a night away this weekend to get some rest and some friends came round to help DH. They persuaded him to do CC. He didn't even phone to discuss it with me. I feel betrayed by the person I trust most in the world. I'm now scared to leave her again. My Dad has found a girlfriend (6 years since my Mum died) and doesn't seem interested in me or DD anymore.

I keep imagining people are going to hurt DD. My GP has arranged for counselling. I go for an assessment at the beginning of March.

I never imagined it would be like this.

Nightmoves Wed 20-Feb-13 21:54:31

Oh stargirl that's awful. What a horrible time you are having. It sounds like you're doing brilliantly, even if it is tough. Thank god you've got a good hv and you sound sorted in terms of referrals so that's good. It is still early days, even if it seems like forever. It will get better. Have you tried co-sleeping for naps? I know you might not want to encourage this, but it has just about saved my sanity. I can't believe your DH did that. No wonder you feel betrayed. Has he apologised since? Can he see why you were upset? Would he take the time to read some things on HN babies and in CIO? If he understood he might be more open to co-sleeping. Or maybe suggest sleeping separately i.e. one of you with DD and the other on their own getting some better quality kip? It is dreadful when you don't feel you're enjoying being a mum, even though we love our DC. You feel so guilty! Especially when seeing others with their contented DC who will just sit quietly. Things will improve though. Do whatever you can in the meantime to get some sleep. And totally ignore anyone who is negative or who criticises. You don't need it.

stargirl1701 Wed 20-Feb-13 22:40:56

Hi Nightmoves. Thank you for your message. I co-sleep for the last afternoon nap - mostly because I am exhausted by then. I use the pram for the first nap as it gets us out of the house nice and early.

DH has apologised for not discussing the CC and accepted it is unsuitable for babies under 6 months. He is concerned that we are 'making a rod for own backs' and that DD will become a clingy toddler.

I'm not sure sleeping apart will improve our marriage grin Things are still strained between us after the weekend. I've pretty much been on my own today. DH at work followed by a game of curling so he didn't come home till after 9pm. No Rhyme-time at the library today because of half-term. No baby yoga tomorrow hmm

CabbageHead Wed 20-Feb-13 23:35:52

Hi all, firstly to little machine, timtams are chocolate biscuits the ones that are everyone's favorites?.. Sorry I'm living Down Under didn't realize you don't have. Them over there! They are mega tasty and eversomoreish...

Secondly, Stargirl1701

I am really feeling for you and I know exactly where you are right now... By 4.5mths I was tearing my hair out from lack of support ESP from DH, and total sleep deprivation and anxiety. you have to tell urself u r doing the best job u can, and shut ur ears to crap advice, soothe ur bub as best you can, she is in pain and can,t communicate how scared and tired she is in any other way. Use ur sling, get a good one, ergo or manduca on eBay if u don't have one, the best way to wind down bub for naps/bedtime...

I have done so much research myself now and hindsight is so wonderful huh?!, you could be suffering from post natal anxiety which is diff but just as serious as PND... I didn't have any symptoms of PND except crying off and on which I put down to major sleep dep..

Take woteva medication u r offered because you need to survive this for yourself, your bub and for your family... No one else can do a better job and looking after ur precious one but you, and IT WILL GET BETTER.. JUST NOT RIGHT NOW!!!! But u NEED TO SURVIVE the pain now....

I was def anxious becos of the reflux, having a terrified screaming baby is enough to make anyone anxious and of course it's an ongoing circle, becos bub picks up on ur anxiety and then Freaks out even more and they don't feel secure if u r not secure. That was the biggest lesson for me, as I spent a lot of time being tired or worried and not really interacting as well as I shld with bub..

I went to a paed who was a bit of a wanker but he thought I shld be on meds for PND, so at that point I was at my lowest after having shingles and all sorts of BF issues, my immune system was crap and I was in total exhaustion. I felt like I just needed to be hospitalized for sheer exhaustion lol! Anyway I leapt at the meds because I had to take painkillers for the shingles and that's how I raised how sleep deprived I was and what an impact it was having on being able to function. (the painkillers made me SLEEP total bliss!)

Everyone said on it will get better after 3mths etc etc, and it DID get better SLOWLY from 6mths when DS grew out of reflux slowly. Yes ranitidine is disgusting he wldnt take it at all, so I pushed for Omeprazole which we call Losec here, which doesn't stop the reflux but stops the burning neutralizes the acid or something like that. I had to stand my ground with the HVs about getting that med but it was the best, DS loved the granules, had no probs taking it... And miracles no more screaming in car or pram!!!!!!

Try and learn as much about reflux as you can there are some great websites about it, and a GP in Australia did major research into it and has a theory that reflux bubs often have major issues with fluid in their ears hence like sleeping upright and movement calms them too.. (eg as soon as u put bub down they start screaming)

Is DD swaddled tightly? That helped DS and really loud white noise as well as he is so noise sensitive, you can breathe in the room and he wakes up... DH and I used to have to crawl out of the room to stay down out of sight and not walk on any floorboard that creaked so annoying and hilarious and ridiculous lengths I have had to go to.. Also around that age I had to darken the room completely as he became so much more aware of his surroundings.. U prob know all this stuff already..

Don't worry about mothers group, I am positive that most mothers with high needs babies don't even get out of the house so u r coping so well.. I just stayed at home a lot which was bad for me but better than the cycle of overtired baby from lack of sleep. But when all the other bubs are sleeping at mothers group,and yrs is wide awake looking around (or worse) it makes u feel like shite.

After reading lots about HN bubs I know that in the future when their bubs are kids and are whining and whingeing, ours will be really well adjusted as it seems that these HN bubs actually get better with age... So it's a matter of being patient (yeah right!!!) and getting any help u can..

Good old dr sears website and book was gr8 help and also the happiest baby on the block book and ESP the CD... It has all this weird womb music and relaxing rain white noise etc, but some days when DS was really off the planet the only way I could get him to sleep was mega rocking and the weird womb music! Also the vacuum is a great machine for calming bubs so weird but true.

Sorry for the long rave... But u r doing an awesome job it's so hard work and no one can really understand what you r going thru unless they have been thru it themselves... And PS tell DH to rack off about co sleeping, tell him don't be ridiculous, do u really think she,ll be cosleeping with us when she is at university?! Send him as many email links as possible with info about baby wearing reducing crying etc attachment parenting... (in ur spare time ha ha)..

We never co slept cos DS was too noisy, refluxy and noise sensitive.. but I regret it. I think he wld not have such separation anxiety if we had.

ClimbingPenguin Thu 21-Feb-13 09:04:01

cabbagehead we co-sleep, DS still had a very long separation anxiety phase.

CabbageHead Thu 21-Feb-13 10:06:16

Climbing penguin oh that makes me feel better...? I was hoping for a short sep anxiety phase! Oh no don't tell me my clingon is going to linger on! Does the co sleeping help to settle them faster? Not that I'm going to try now, just curious about your experience..

So tired, DS has been waking 3times a night one time of which he stays awake for 2.5 hrs average and can't get back to sleep... Think it's mixture of milestone re standing up and crawling properly, teething, OT... Woteva it is it's driving me crazy...

Then i went to pharmacy today to get teething tablets and the baby consultant down there pounced on me (usually they r lovely but this one was quite horrible) and proceeded to tell me EXACTLY what I SHOULD be doing to settle him and it was her way or the highway. Not that I'm against advice, I,ll listen to anyone, always respect someone else's opinion, but it was her manner... Made me feel like crap.. I was pretty vague from lack of sleep but she made me feel quite stupid... WotEVA...

stargirl1701 Thu 21-Feb-13 16:56:12

Hi Cabbage. Wow! What a post, thank you. I'm trying to stay positive but it's hard when there is no end in sight. She slept for only 2 hours last night and just 2x10 min naps today. She is asleep now in my arms but stirring every 20 min or so. I'm sitting on my birth ball so I can bounce her back to sleep each time.

I'm just stunned that a baby sleeps so little. I thought I would be up in the night but not this. She sleeps far less than any adult I know.

Just have keep going till the appointment for the paediatrician comes through. I may have a nervous breakdown if they can't do anything.

Nightmoves Thu 21-Feb-13 22:25:03

stargirl hope you are having an ok night and managing forty winks. My DH is very resistant to sleeping in separate beds as he thinks it means 'the end'. I however think the end will come much quicker by my watching him sleep while I rock/sush/pat/feed screaming baby at 3am.

cabbage baby consultant in pharmacy!! Most impressed. Last week DS constantly standing and bouncing in cot. Most trying. He is at least lying down this week.

Going away for weekend tomorrow. Trying to impress on DH who is working am the importance of leaving at 12 so DS will sleep and getting a lot if vague nods and uh-huhs... Also trying to pack and organise and DS waking every 20 mins. It's as if he knows in trying to do something. Hv told me today if I don't attempt to tackle there is a good chance DS will still be like this when he is 3 and sleep issues will be harder to address then sad. Is she right?

stargirl1701 Thu 21-Feb-13 22:28:38

Hi Night. DH is upstairs battling the 'sleep is for wimps' DD grin I have had a night in front of the TV with wine!!!!

CabbageHead Thu 21-Feb-13 22:31:17

Cor blimey, I had 2x 3hr sleeps last night and I'm exhausted so not sure how you haven't had a breakdown yet!!!!! U r surviving well... Do you have a swing? I wish we had thought to get one, cos most of the mothers in my mothers group had their LO in naps in swings during th day which meant they weren't overtired at bedtime.. Whereas I struggled with day naps every day so nighttime was crap because DS was OT.. Therefore woke a lot at night time...And still is!

You def need to see the paed tho.. We had a hammock which he loved to be in but I am stupid and never thought of bouncing him to sleep in it until one day it was really hot and he had no sleep during the day, we put him in it to calm him down and bounced it up and down and hey presto he was asleep.. We didnt dare breathe until he woke up as he was in pure daylight in kitchen with birds chirping outside etc..!!! They use hammocks in some hospitals tho to get bubs to sleep...

Have you had her ears checked for ear infection? Could ask paed/hv for referral to ENT specialist.. Also could try Oseto... DS sleeps wonderfully after going to my osteo but I just can't afford to take him everyday lol!

I would rock DS to sleep (he is now over 10kgs!) and then collapse into my feeding chair carefully and keep Jim asleep on me upright...and every time he stirred I would jump up and keep moving...but at least u get to close your eyes that way! I think I wldve fallen off bouncy ball if I'd tried that! Too unco!

Yeh I remember counting each day minute hour until I could see sleep specialists in our area... The waiting list was so long but i felt. Like they were my only hope..!

<brings in tray of warm wobbly scones with loads of strawb jam and giant dollops of fake whipped cream>

CabbageHead Thu 21-Feb-13 22:45:11


I found this link useful... www.troublesometots.com

stargirl1701 Thu 21-Feb-13 22:50:29

Mmmm. Scones! Lovely, lovely grin DD sees a chiropractor as she has asymmetry of the skull - the GP gave it a medical name beginning with 'pl'.

We've not tried a hammock...yet. I keep going by drawing on my past. I'm a teacher and I've had some bloody hard classes with some very damaged children in them. I'm not sure what I'll do when I don't get my summer holiday, mind you gringringrin

CabbageHead Thu 21-Feb-13 23:29:11

I just went home to visit my mum and sis thinking I,d get a break but that didn't happen of course as they are too wrapped up in their own worlds dammit! DS won't even sleep at grandmas, so I've taken to spending one day over there doing lts of cooking etc and getting him to sleep in pram knowing that I am there until he gets ver his sep anxiety... (Cor effing blimey... Can just imagine him Going to uni... But muuuuummmm aren't you coming with me......????)

Creature is awake must go... HO hum...

Best medicine is chatting to these chics or any other mothers with what I term 'normal bubs' (ones that DON'T STTN!!!).. I met 3other mothers at sleep school and we had ended up breaking into song at each lunch, dinner Brekkie feedings as one LO cried hysterically all the time, it was so lovely bonding with these amazing strong women with their normal non sleeping unsettled LOs!! We had so many laughs together and I begged them to start a commune together so we could continue our wonderful sharing.

<takes lid off fake cream can and surreptitiously looks around before squirting a gobful into mouth... Then sneaks out of room...>

stargirl1701 Fri 22-Feb-13 01:24:17

Looks like 2 hours is what we're getting tonight. DD is awake and screaming again.

stargirl1701 Fri 22-Feb-13 02:35:36

Still up hmm

CabbageHead Fri 22-Feb-13 02:45:12


Am typing whilst the creature is screeching... Yeh we went thru 3weeks of tiniest movement then up on all fours rocking backwards and forwards... Now we are standing in cot all the time but not as bad as the crawling phase... Now its Just don't leave me mummy all the time wailing screeching wahhhhhhh... HO hum.... Wld be ok if he wasn't SO EFFING LOUD... Thought he pierced my eardrum one day... Heh..

OMG my DH is mega disorganized complete Guinness book records rating time management deficient... As in ALWAYS goes to work late... And we just flew to NZ and JUST MADE IT TO CHECKIN with SECONDS to spare... Not very happy... He is SO VERY ANNOYING... And his time mngmnt issue is my biggest reason for divorce challenge with DS as always late coming back from their walk for naps etc DRIVES ME INSANE...

How old is ur DS? They do say that if you don't get sleeping routine org it does get harder the older they get.. Clinical nurse at sleep referral told me that she also took 1 look. At DS and said oh he is high needs, get him to sleep school ASAP.. Funny cos I was beginning to suspect he was high needs myself at that stage lol

Having said that it's also said that doesn't matter what direction you take it's the consistency that matters, so when the specialists try to tell you their way is better, it's a load of shite I reckon, depends on ur LOs personality and your family dynamic as to what will work for you, they all work for someone but I don't reckon. For everyone...

stargirl1701 Fri 22-Feb-13 04:06:43

And, screaming again hmm

CabbageHead Fri 22-Feb-13 07:25:05

Poor u! The only reason I am awake is because I live on th other side of the world!!!

<tiptoes in quietly puts box chocolate liqueurs, bottle of rescue remedy & crate of sedatives on the table>

stargirl1701 Fri 22-Feb-13 16:09:50

Can I give DD the sedatives? grin

DS was prescribed antihistamines to use as a sedative around the time I started posting on this thread.

They didn't work.

CabbageHead Fri 22-Feb-13 21:58:23

Referring to ur previous post, I've taken to wearing an abdominal support to help with hauling heavy DS around cos the fatigue was insane by end of day.. Cos I hav abdominal separation from pregnancy but didn't find out until 2 mths ago! So supposed to do my Pfexercises a lot but who has time!

DH in charge today... Impending disaster already with OT DS and DH hasn't noticed yet..... Sigh

stargirl1701 Sat 23-Feb-13 05:12:55

2 hours of screaming and counting hmm

stargirl1701 Sat 23-Feb-13 06:24:47

3 hours and counting. hmmhmm

CabbageHead Sat 23-Feb-13 07:45:03


U mean she's been awake for 3 hours and screaming the entire time or she's been intermittently waking up for the hours and screaming? (both r terrible scenarios) I can't imagine how u r coping... U r amazing ... I wld have been institutionalised by now if it was me...smile

<brings in basin hot water for feet with lavender massage oil and proceeds to massage your feet whilst u attend to the screamer, gentle ocean waves play softly in the background>

stargirl1701 Sat 23-Feb-13 07:47:51

She was awake and screaming continuously for 3 hours. One brief pause for 20 min when she fell asleep.

I decided to make it 'daytime' at 6.30am. Lights on, morning routine, etc. Still awake.

CabbageHead Sat 23-Feb-13 09:27:42

DS is still awake here happily playing in his cot beaming at the camera monitor...and it's way past his bedtime... I knew I'd pay for it tomorrow having DH look after him today, but it was worth it to escape for nearly the entire day yip yip yippee!

So your DS screams when she is awake? And then doesn't sleep when she should? Does she scream like she is in mega pain? She must be... Have u taken her to allergist? Eczema and reflux often linked to allergy.. Is she happy when she is awake or just always screaming? Does she bf/bottle feed ok? I just can't imagine what u r going thru to be honest... So only stops screaming if u r on the move soothing her?

I read a story about a mother with a newborn that screamed nonstop she had her in sling the whole time and then they found out she had a heart problem and that's why she screamed all the time... U just never know why they r screaming that's the problem... Poor LO and poor u... Is her eczema really bad? It would make me scream if I had it as a baby (I had it as a child)..

Another hour later...

Well I thought it was worth it having the day off.... Still wide awake and way way past OT now... Good one DH thanks for making the Next few days hell again while I play catch... Yet again... Cranky miserable fatigued bub... Every week same thing.. HO hum...

Oh stargirl, lots of sympathy here from me. DS is a screamer. It's just his default. Unhappy? Screaming. Happy? Very loud shouting.

Hope you're ok today.

stargirl1701 Sat 23-Feb-13 12:58:37

She screams a lot. She was a fab baby when she refused to eat for 18 hours. Contented, slept well. I think it may be CMPI but it's taken me 4 months to persuade the GP we need a paediatric referral hmm

stargirl1701 Sat 23-Feb-13 20:06:20

Hello folks. Well, what a day. DD didn't know what hit her. We didn't let her nap as long as she wanted - first bloody time she's ever napped! She went down as normal at 7pm...watch this space grin

Cabbage, I hope your DS isn't giving you too much trouble!

Little, how's your screamer been today? grin

CabbageHead Sun 24-Feb-13 02:42:08

What Cmpi? Wow wonder what happend?! That's great news hope it continues..

Can't believe ur Gp won't give u a referral that's crazy... I got one off my OB as it was quicker to get them to fax it over than going thru Gp..

Well DH couldn't get DS to sleep last night as he was too late with arvo nap so it was short too, so DS finally went down at 9pm instead of 7pm... So today I am dealing with the OT... Not too bad tho ESP as I had a break yesterday... Just always when u need to go out somewhere do they then not want to take a nap at their usual time... Grrrr

little machine
Maybe you have a mini rockstar! hehe..

Creature is wired and not napping... Ad we are supposed to be going to see daddy play at a music food festival this arvo.. Oh well not my fault he is OT he he he.. Too bad if we miss him play....

<brings in luscious shiny fruit platter blooming with mangoes, strawberries, grapes, blueberries, nectarines, apricots, melons and adorned with sprigs of fresh mint and bluebells>

ClimbingPenguin Sun 24-Feb-13 10:51:31

we used the drowsy antihistamines last night, don't think they helped much. He probably was a little drowsy but still woke for normal feeds.

stargirl1701 Sun 24-Feb-13 19:39:39

Cows Milk Protein Intolerant.

Well, she was up at 5am crying but no hours of screaming smile Teething today so quite grumpy.

Fingers crossed for a reasonable night tonight!

CabbageHead Mon 25-Feb-13 02:01:23

Yeh sounds like u r on the right track... Hav u eliminated dary from ur diet? It's the commonest allergy cows milk so makes sense why'd sed be screaming all the time and explains the eczema too I guess well hope u get some hope from the paed..

Well DS ended up missing arvo nap in the end so therefore so tired all arvo but won't usually sleep in car r pram so had to get him intobed early.. Walked him around his room in dark like a maniac until he was able to wind himself down to sleep... Don't like to do that cos bad habit and he is over 10kgs but it's either that or he is up for another hour or two...

Today he is mega fatigued... Again.. Early to bed again tonight is all I can do until he catches up... Made DH get up every time he woke up last night... Got to suffer the consequences if you want to play with him all hours...!

Drowsy antihistamines sound great that's just wot I need!..

stargirl1701 Mon 25-Feb-13 03:57:32

Cabbage, give your DH hell! gringrin

We're up screaming from 3am again hmm

HV told us to give her a painkiller. We have her one at 7pm - she slept till 11pm. We gave her another - she slept till 3am. Both 4 hour sleeps - coincidence? Just given another one now.

CabbageHead Mon 25-Feb-13 05:40:01

Poor bub must be in pain alright... When I suspected DS had reflux, what convinced me in the end to push for some meds, as docs were all against it, was when I gave him panadol for something, and when we were in car it was the first time he hadn't screamed in the car... So I thought he must've been in pain squashed up in his car capsule...

Hope u all get some well deserved rest... DS has been a nightmare to settle again today so fatigued.. Took me 2.15hrs to get him to have a nap this arvo, same as yesterday as he ws so tired both times... Just fights it.. In the end I had to pin him down under really tight sheet so he couldn't escape and play...

Creature is up chat later

Kafri Tue 26-Feb-13 06:59:22

stopping in to say hi. might be spending a fair bit of time here!

taking ds for CO later today. not sure of my opinion on it if im honest but have exhausted all other options so it's worth a shot.

stargirl1701 Tue 26-Feb-13 08:02:29

Good luck Kafri! I hope it works.

Cabbage, how was your day? Did you get back into the nap routine?

The weather yesterday here was amazing, really sunny. We had 3 walks and DD slept outside for 4 hours smile A much better night last night! She stirred a few times but settled back down. We co-slept from half 4.

CabbageHead Tue 26-Feb-13 09:08:47


I'm so jealous... 4hrs sleeping outside?!... When I first had DS I had this vision of me gardening while he slept peacefully in his pram under the trees...

He's never EVER slept outside... Except a short nap at an animal place where there was a very loud waterfall so I pushed him back n forwards in pram using the waterfall as whitenoise...

Had another horror today. He slept fantastic last night slept right thru from 8.30pm until 5am then amazingly managed to get him back to sleep until 6.45am .. I think.. Our monitor has gone bust so I can't see him anymore or always hear him which is v annoying...

Anyway he is still so tired today, am nap was hideous ended up having to trap him under sheet again... Arvo nap ok although short.. Still awake at 8pm... Sigh... Hopefully he won't wake up all night like last week.. I can't believe it takes him 1.5 hrs to wind down to go to sleep its so annoying spending your entire life settling or not settling... Guess I should co sleep but he, s always been in his own cot so not chnaging now!

I've taken to putting chamomile in his formula, and I'm drinking it as well (still bf overnight)... Anything that might help.. He is just so hard to wind down just one yawn and it's too late.. Just gets majorly over stimulated all the time.. I was crying and sobbing in frustration this morning esp with no support.. It's so hard isn't it but at least here I can whinge read other peoples hard lives and put mine into perspective, and not feel alone...

It's been really hot here most days 27' to 30'C but really humid esp at night time which makes it really difficult to know what to dress DS in as starts with aircon then we turn it off later so either gets too hit or too cold!

I have appt with cranial sacral therapist on Thursday she is Bowen therapist too so really hope it helps..

Kafri Tue 26-Feb-13 12:29:09

just got home! he cried the whoke way through. not really sure what the guy was doing and its taken him ages to calm himself down after it. not the desired effect!

stargirl1701 Tue 26-Feb-13 12:40:31

Damn. I had the same with DD. But, I found the next day there was a small difference.

Keep your chin up. You are doing well. You are meeting his needs. You are a good Mum.

stargirl1701 Tue 26-Feb-13 12:51:31

Cabbage, I'm very envious of your temps! It was 6 degrees here yesterday but so sunny. It finally feels like Spring has arrived!

DD didn't scream at all last night. A few wakenings, whimperings and crying but we got her settled again each time. I've tried the same pattern today but she woke this morning as soon as the pram stopped.

CabbageHead Tue 26-Feb-13 22:07:32

I reckon that's the worst thing abut high needs bubs they r so unpredictable wot works one day never works the next day!

DS wldnt wind down last night so I just left him in cot under the tight sheet he finally fell asleep at 8pm after over an hour singing chatting to himself he doesnt even whinge much just too wired to sleep EVN tho he is yawning away..

Anyway he slept thru again til 3.30am then I fed him he went back to sleep until 6.30ish but mega tired again this morn thru Brekkie, whingeing and crying fussing had to take him for long walk and he cried a lot of the way which is what he did when he was younger..

Anyway he went down ok wil prob have shorter nap as so tired fingers crossed he sleeps longer..

That's terrible! I have taken DS to osteo twice and both times he was so calm there and then slept so well afterward to the point that I used to joke about taking him everyday!!

Must be horribly annoying being a bub that can't tell you what's bothering them, they must go, jeez mum are you thick or what can't you see im aching all over! Heh

CabbageHead Wed 27-Feb-13 02:43:52

Just figured out I think we have just gone thru a wonder week! Much better today, crying a bit which is unusual these days but much easier to settle today.. So far so good... Off to the beach now to wear him out and keep him cool after he wakes up..

stargirl1701 Wed 27-Feb-13 13:41:51

Cabbage, you are making me jealous. The beach!!! Grrrr!

I'm feeling crappy today. We went to Rhymetime at the library. How do you stop feeling so envious of other mums and their babies? I always end up coming home crying from these groups.

No naps without moving today - again. I'm so exhausted.

stargirl1701 Wed 27-Feb-13 16:43:10

DH came home a wee bit early and took her. I can hear her screaming. Again. Oh god, this is so hard.

Kafri Wed 27-Feb-13 19:48:07

in with you there star
they need to invent a new word for just how hard it is and how tired you get.

can hear D screaming for daddy downstairs. hes sent me to bed for a few hours.

I'm desperately trying to fill days with stuff cos I can't face many more sat home alone with him screaming non stop.

CabbageHead Wed 27-Feb-13 21:21:05

stargirl1701 and kafri
Hang in there yummy mummies... Just remember we r going to have the best kids on the block once they grow out of their insane intensity... Actually DS doesn't scream or cry much anymore he is just so active and headstrong and unable to settle himself mostly gets too overstimulated.

Another late night although I put him in at 6pm hoping he,d go down as during dinner he ws so exhausted it was like he was drunk, he had his hands rubbing his eyes the entire time and was lolling about giggling to himself was really cute but poor bub is so exhausted.

Star girl I just didn't go out much with him because it was just too hard playing catchup all the time.. They def get better as they mature he is really happy to amuse himself unless he is tired then he gets all clingy again and won't let me do anything..

Kafri I know wot u mean I'm so relieved whenever DH comes home.. The sleep dep is so so bad the worst torture ever.. I cannot function sleeping in 2 or 3 hr blocks..

Beach was beautiful and DS had a gr8 time crawling in the water.. Was nice to get out for a bit. Will be autumn in a few weeks so trying to make most of it. At east u can play in snow when there is some?

DS might not ever see snow until he is an adult ha ha!

SeymoreInOz Thu 28-Feb-13 01:45:02

Hello, can I join please? DS is 12 weeks old now and I feel at my lowest. He's even started screaming in the sling now. I don't leave the house much but had to get out today (have older DCs). We got the bus back, literally 3 stops, and one woman on the bus moved away, another stuck her fingers in her ears!

Does the constant screaming get better?

CabbageHead Thu 28-Feb-13 02:35:50

Hey there yes I promise u it does get better...!!!! Even tho u feel like it will never end, u r probably in the peak of screaming at 12 weeks... They scream cos they have gas, their bellies ache, they have reflux, the lights too bright, they are too tired or overstimulated, they r hungry etc etc..

Try some colic remedies? Natural homeopathic ones, try anything, chamomile tea is spouses to be good, small dosage obvupiously but supposed to be good for wind.. Or try eliminating milk or u r bf or change formulas if u aren't?..

U r in very early days yet and no doubt just getting over the labour and r still feeding around the clock... I feel ur pain... I don't even remember the first 6mths to be perfectly honest they went by in a long excruciating blur...!!!!

R u in oz?

SeymoreInOz Thu 28-Feb-13 04:01:21

Thanks cabbage I had no idea it peaked at 12 weeks! Everyone keeps saying he'll settle down at 3/4 months, it's really getting to me that he's getting worse!

I've been dairy free since he was 4 weeks, but had a slip last Monday when a sandwich I ordered had butter in and I'd wolfed down most of it before I realised! It's hard to say if it's helping or not though. I'll try chamomile tea, quite fancy some myself!

I'm in Sydney. DH was transferred here for work just over a year ago so I've got limited support. I was hoping to make friends through postnatal groups but I've only been to one and DS screamed throughout!

Kafri Thu 28-Feb-13 07:54:16

hi Seymour - welcome to the lifeline. honestly this site is the only thing stopping me going insane. ds iw 10 weeks today so hopefully another week closer to settling down a little.

stargirl1701 Thu 28-Feb-13 08:17:27

Oh, what a night. Up at 3am after waking every hour between 7pm and 3am. Still awake!!!!!

stargirl1701 Thu 28-Feb-13 14:59:28

Paediatric appt came in today. 3rd of fucking April!

I've phoned the secretary and asked her if bear us in mind if there are any cancellations.

April. FFS!

Kafri Thu 28-Feb-13 18:54:49

Oh no thats awful star Thats one thing I cannot complain about. I have been seen really quickly and have the phone number of my peads secretary. If I need anything I just give her a call and she gets the doc to call back or finds out the answer and rings me back herself.

Between the IVF treatment and my follow up I cannot fault the NHS aside from my HV who is nigh on useless

SeymoreInOz Thu 28-Feb-13 22:08:49

star oh no, that is a long wait. How old is your DD? Is the referral for cow's milk allergy? My oldest DC (DD, 7) had cow's milk allergy until she was about 2. She was a mega screamer and wouldn't sleep day or night, but once the allergy and reflux were dealt with she really settled down. I'm dairy free now with DS, but I'm not sure if he has cmpa, I think DD was beginning to improve by this stage.

kafri Were you on the antenatal thread? I only really posted on the first couple of threads. Anyway, congratulations! Your DS sounds a bit like mine. He doesn't really scream at night, it's just the day from about 5am onwards. It's like he's overwhelmed and can't switch off and sleep. If we go out it's 10 times worse, he spends the whole time simmering and is completely frazzled after an half an hour.

DH left for work at 7am and is out tonight. He hasn't been home before 9pm all week. sad

CabbageHead Thu 28-Feb-13 23:28:54

OMG stargirl that's ridiculous!!!! R there no other paeds you can get an earlier appt with? Do you have a crisis type baby centre that can help you get a faster referral or get ur Gp involved, tell them u r close to breaking point... I just can't believe that... Surely someone can help you... If I wasnt on other side of world I wld try to help you... That's so not right.. I hate that crap about if bub reaches all milestones then everything must be ok.. It's a load of crap they r not the ones dealing with it 24/7 and poor bub isn't doing it for fun... FFS!!!

DS is unable to get to sleep this am, sill going 1hour later... He woke up and was exhausted after half an hour... He did sleep dead to the world after his cranial appt, from 7pm til 3.30am, then fed and very awake, so DH ended up resettling him.. But he is stil so exhausted.

Pouring down here today so no walks bummer... Makes a difference being able to wind him down that day when he is that OT... HO hum

MXP78 Fri 01-Mar-13 16:53:57

I am so glad to have found this site. My daughter is nearly 8 months old and born July last year. My mother in law had done some searching online and found the information about high needs babies and the description fit her to a T. I had no idea what was going on at the start and why she was so different.
She cried every evening and hardly seemed to sleep. All I had for reference when she was a newborn were the other babies in my NCT group and she was nothing like them! They seemed to permanently have their eyes closed. So I assumed it was something i was doing wrong. So I started reading those parenting bookes (Gina Ford, Baby Whisperer etc) to see if they could "fix" the problem. They just made me feel like a complete failure! How was I ever going to make her sleep for 2.5 hours from 12pm - 2.30pm? With regards to sleep they only seemed to give advice about waking baby up to make sure they didn't sleep too long. What if they didn't seem to sleep at all? Or if they screamed every time you put them down? And how was I going to make her feed every 4 hourly when she wanted to feed every 30 mins?! Gina Ford said no babies on her routines cry and babies with colic cry because they're being overfed. I collapsed in tears after reading her book.
My DD screamed everytime we put her in the carseat or pram. The only place she would sleep was on us or in a sling (thank goodness I had bought one second hand before she was born! I didn't think I was going to use it!) When she was 3 months old we had to go to a party which was an hour and a half drive. She screamed for an hour and 15 mins of that journey. Before I had a baby I thought a foolproof way of getting them to sleep was a drive in the car. Not my baby!
Now at 8 months she doesn't cry like she used to but she's still very hard work. Will only entertain herself for about 5 to 10 mins before she starts to squeal to be picked up. But now she's bigger when I pick her up she tries to push off me but then cries if I put her down! I go to baby groups and the Mum's just sit there having a cup of tea while their babies lie or sit playing with toys. My DD will do that for about 5 mins before I need to stand her on her feet and jiggle her around or walk around the room with her. She seems to need constant movement.
I try not to be all "poor me" about it as I have a beautiful healthy baby. It's just very tiring and lack of sleep takes a lot out of you.
People with high needs babies really need time out but because of the way their baby is, it's very hard to leave them with other people. I'm from NZ so my family are on the otherside of the world. My husbands Mum is lovely but I don't feel comfortable asking her to give me a break.
Anyway, can't believe I've written so much. Once I started it just all came out!

stargirl1701 Fri 01-Mar-13 17:33:27

Hello everyone! MXP welcome grin

I hope everyone is enjoying the sunny weather. Cabbage, how is it in Oz today? Kafri, how has your day been?

DH and I were totally gutted yesterday regarding the referral date. I plan to phone every week and check for a cancellation. Fingers crossed!

It has been Invasion of the Baby snatchers here today. DD has slept (3 naps totalling 4 hours), played with her toys for a little while and generally been quite contented. Bizarre!!! I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop grin Is she ill? grin

God knows what tonight will bring. Last night we tried a dreamfeed just before 3am to see if we could stop her waking and beginning the screamfest. It worked! We will try that again tonight.

Kafri Sat 02-Mar-13 00:16:29


today has been a good day. when I say good I mean good for us compated to normal grin
ds had screamed but today he has allowed me to soothe him. fair enough, it wasn't immediate but all I care about is that he let me. baby steps and all that...

hope alls well with everyone else. ..

congratulations on the dream feed success. fingers crossed for you.

stargirl1701 Sat 02-Mar-13 08:19:13

Well done Kafri. It really helps to recognise the small steps.

DD was up at least three times every hour. hmmhmmhmm

SeymoreInOz Sat 02-Mar-13 08:50:20

Hi MXP your description of your daughter describes my 12 week old son perfectly. Just today we did almost a full hour of car seat screaming. sad I'm in Australia, all my family are in the UK, so I know what you mean about not getting a break.

Does anyone else find that other mums at postnatal/playgroups are completely aghast? Is if they've never come across a baby like yours? I wish there were special high needs groups. Although maybe no one would be able to hear anything....

MXP78 Sat 02-Mar-13 08:51:53

Hi Stargirl, thanks for the welcome. How old is your DD? What is the referral for?

MXP78 Sat 02-Mar-13 08:57:14

Hi SeymoreInOz. Very hard being on the otherside of the world to your family isn't it? We are going on holiday next week and it will be about a 90 min drive.... She is much better in the car these days although haven't tried a longer trip since the hour of crying when she was 3 mths. Fingers crossed!

One of the Mum's in my NCT group thought there definitely had to be something wrong with my DD.... She thought there was no way babies cried that much and were that difficult without having something physically wrong... It wasn't very helpful. In person, I have also never come across a baby like mine. Not in any groups I go to, and I go to a few as need to get out of the house!

CabbageHead Sat 02-Mar-13 11:45:41

Hi chooks..

I just got home from being out.... No I mean I JUST GOT HOME from being OUT!!!!!


Heh first night out on my own in 10mths!!!

We Hav been out as a couple once to a wedding (tell u all about that one anther time!) been out all day shopping ... Left DS home with DH. Who only managed to get 45minnap out f him the entire day... Heh WELCOME TO MY WORLD father of the year DH!!!!!!!!!!!! DH looked exhausted! Heh heh HO hum... Then Iwent OUT FOR DINNER with some of mothers group chics... So weird to go out soooooooo nice!!!!

Yes I will pay fr it for next fortnight of fighting the OT creature but it was SO WORTH IT!!!!!

Better get some sleep now it's been a tough week chat more tomorrow.. Hope u have a good restful day or night!!!! Don't forget to make yourself rest forget the housework u NEED REST to cope with ur LO,s....

stargirl1701 Sat 02-Mar-13 12:31:57

Seymour, I couldn't agree more. I come home and cry after virtually every group I go to. The shock of the other mums is really hard to see. It makes you realise how difficult your dc is. hmm

MXP, DD is 25 weeks (+2 days). The referral is for her silent reflux. The GP is not prepared to prescribe anything else, not even the max dose of Ranitidine, so we need to speak to a specialist.

We've had a shit night. Up at least twice every hour between 7pm and 3am. Screaming again from 11am till noon today. DH and I have just had an argument.

When is this going to get better? Right now, I feel really low.

MXP78 Sun 03-Mar-13 15:05:06

Stargirl, how awful for you. My DD was also on Ranitidine. As she got bigger they increased her dose. Although don't think she went near the max dose. The Dr also gave me a prescription for Domperidone which I could get if the increased Ranitidine didn't work. It did seem to work so I didn't end up using the Domperidone. But isn't it awful how different Drs are and how you really have to fight with some to listen to you. My DD seems to have grown out of reflux now at 8mths. Hopefully the same will happen for you. It does get better as they grow out of it x

CabbageHead, good on you for going out! I've had one night out on my own with the other NCT Mum's since my DD was born. Some of the other Mum's were sitting there saying they missed their babies... I was like "can somebody please order me another bottle of wine, I'm not going home until this restaurant closes"

stargirl1701 Sun 03-Mar-13 19:39:11

Thanks MXP. smile

I'm in need of some hand holding tonight. Put DD down in her cot on her front. I'm sitting in her room with her. A part of me wants this to work as she will get some sleep. But...oh god...what if...? I've got SIDS flashing in my brain.

MXP78 Sun 03-Mar-13 19:57:38

If it makes you feel any better, my GP suggested sleeping my DD on her front... When she was 3 mths old I pretty much broke down from the lack of sleep. Without me knowing, my husband booked an appt at our GP as he was worried I was getting PND or about to have a nervous breakdown. Our GP suggested sleeping her on her front to see if it worked. It didn't seem to help us that much but I did do it a few times. Lots of babies your DD's age will probably be rolling over in their sleep themselves and sleeping on their front.

stargirl1701 Sun 03-Mar-13 20:08:32

My DH wondered that aloud this weekend grin I don't think I'm depressed but you never know. My GP has organised a psychological assessment tomorrow so I guess I'll find out then!

DD can't roll yet. I think that's why I'm so worried. I personally think I may have Post Natal Anxiety.

MXP78 Sun 03-Mar-13 20:37:12

I know EXACTLY how you are feeling. I didn't think I was depressed either but I had anxiety that felt out of control. I've only read about Post Natal Anxiety today on this site. I'd never heard of it before. I reckon I totally must have had that (am so much better now). I kept saying to my husband that I permanently felt anxious. That made the sleeping worse as when my DD did eventually fall asleep, instead of falling asleep myself, the anxiety would kick in about what the night was going to be like and I would just lie there waiting to hear her start to cry. As soon as I heard the first noise, I would feel a physical flood of something pour into my stomach. That anxious feeling is totally awful. Sending you lots of love and support x

stargirl1701 Sun 03-Mar-13 20:59:41

That's exactly it, MXP. It's like she's a ticking bomb and I'm just waiting for her to go off!

Kafri Sun 03-Mar-13 21:45:47

Oh star I know how you feel about putting them on their tummy. I think i'd feel better if it was putting him on his tummy just in his cot but my tummy knots cos he insists on these bloody cushions.
Having spent the last few nights on his nursery floor wit him, I can honestly say that while it is slightly more comfortable than my living room laminate - it still makes you wake with a bloody sore back.

I try to think that there are plenty of mums out there who have had to let their babies sleep on their tummy before they can roll themselves, and years back it was actually advised. Hope she settles a bit for you to get a bit of rest yourself.xx

stargirl1701 Sun 03-Mar-13 21:55:21

Unfortunately, it didn't work. She's had 2 screaming fits already since 7pm.

Kafri, you need to work out a more comfortable sleeping arrangement! grin Maybe borrow a single mattress from a friend? You're going to be hobbling by the end of next week.

CabbageHead Sun 03-Mar-13 22:13:54

So annoying, I wrote this massive reply last night took me ages replaying to all of you then it disappeared!!! Maybe it was too long and they rejected it ha ha!

Just sedating the beast back soon...

ticklemyboobsofsteel Mon 04-Mar-13 21:48:06

Quick wave to you all. And big welcomes to those who have joined us since I last posted.

Work has been crazy the last month or so, and little fella is getting his last canine (and probably starting work on his last molars thank god) so sleep has been pretty awful. We had a week of him sleeping 8-7, with one wake and sometimes none at all, but tis all now a distant memory again. He's doing much better tonight, no settles needed so far...

Bugger. Spoke too soon. He's having a moan.

Hope you're all as well as you can be on zero sleep, and wishing decent nights to you all smile

CabbageHead Mon 04-Mar-13 23:17:17

Hi all,

Yes sleep WOT IS THAT???? I have had 2 of the roughest weeks I've ever had, just could not get that creature to settle, each nap/bedtime was a 2hr battle on average.. U end up so despondent.. DH is the worst support. He means well but just doesn't have a clue... Took creature to hardware store and super art, came back after 6pm, can u imagine he was so overstimulated he wldnt go down until 8pm! I was so pissed off aft spending the entire day moving everything forward so I could get him into bed early to catch up.

DS is so overtired I've never ever seen him this bad. From moment he gets up in morning he is yawning, every mealtime he is rubbing his eyes banging his head rubbing his ears, lolling about deliriously from exhaustion. And whinge whinge whinge omg so over that clingy whingeing beast lol!

Anyway been doing lots of research online checking out blogs and forums, new strategy this morning, think I've been confusing him too much as being trying to settle him anyway possible just to get him down to nap, bed. The constant standing in cot has been so so so bad.

Anyway so I still have to stick him under the really tight sheet that nearly cuts off his circulation but is hard for him to escape, but instead of leaving him there screaming (he hates being confined, don't blame him, he is freedom boy like his mummy), I sat with him, NO PUPD, just said lie down over and over about 10times at least until he compromised, then I took him out of tight sheet and just patted him quietly and stayed with my arms thru the bars so he knew I wasn't going away.. SA is such a pleasure....NOT!!!!! Only took half an hour!

Yay yippee!!! I feel like a new person and all is right with the world again. I know it will be short lived but celebrate each step forward. (I already know with DS it's always one step forward two steps back but hey I'm still celebrating my achievement lol!) I gave him panadol and he was already so tired that he spent most of morning crying so I may have just been lucky. Cancelled going to MIL today focus on my new wonderful strategy. hmm

Have u had dd checked for ear infection? If going to Gp too hard u could try hearing centre where they check ur hearing, but ask them to check using their typo meter, which tests the fluid behind the ear canal that docs cannot see with their little light thing.

Also I read in previous post somewhere that couple ended up bypassing the Gp referral long wait thing by taking their screaming LO straight to emergency at hospital when she was screaming heaps and they got to see paediatrician straight away.

mxp had to laugh at ur prev post about sleep advice books, yeh I roll my eyes when it comes to that advice about put baby down at such n such time, and baby miraculously sleeps for 2.5hrs whereby u then get them up to have lunch and then they go down again miraculously at such n such time ha ha ha ha ha
Wot happens when they sleep so short they are mega OT by the time you r supposed to put them down again.. Crock of shit for our LO,s!

CabbageHead Mon 04-Mar-13 23:29:51

kafri I used to try and MAKE DS sleep on his tummy but he never wld, took him ages to get that it was a comfy sleeping position for him!!! Don't worry as long as they have good head control I wld try at least for naps, because naps are short enou for u to keep eye on them, ESP if u have monitor?

star u ca get bumpers which make them lie on their side.. In hindsight I really wish I'd persisted with that from start, a Gp advised me to do that and all other HV and gps, nurses were horrified, but reflux bubs settle better as long as not on their back..

Wheni had referral for sleep school the clinical nurse who had 30yrs experience with non sleeping babies said the incididence of non sleeping babies is out of control due to SIDS advice, as before they used to always settle babies on their side facing the wall of cot as settling them on back they can look around too much and stay stimulated rather than face cot wall and be bored. She also thinks that's why there is so much reflux. (she was the one who took one look at DS and said, he is high needs get him to sleep school ASAP as he wil only get worse.)( she also me DH and said to me he is the most oppositional father I have ever come across in my 30 year career!!!) she was hilarious straight talking lady I loved her!

check out this website it's Aussie reflux website so useful, ESP read article by Gp about eustachian tube dysfunction.

Yeh post natal anxiety is not discussed much and shld have diff medication than PND. Def just take wot ever they offer , as the paed said to me it will just take the edge of for 6mths. I have never liked the idea of meds but am so happy for any help that helps me keep my cool with DS. He is too challenging as well as DH being a challenge it has been too much. If I wasn't on meds I hate to think who I might have killed first lol! I am only on lowest dose so it's. Not perfect but good compromise for me. I even got DH on meds now cos he always had depression! I only realized after being so sleep deprived and taking painkillers for shingles and then being able to sleep in a relaxed state made me realize how bad a state my body mind was in! (when I was thinking oh these painkillers are so great I went shite better go and get myself assessed ha ha!)

CabbageHead Tue 05-Mar-13 02:14:08

Arvo nap, no improvement... Sigh...oh well at least I had no screaming fits this morn! Creature is screaming his head off in anger... I'm out in lounge where it's not so in your face loud! Really helps to go and do something to keep frustration at bay...

CabbageHead Tue 05-Mar-13 03:42:08

1.5 hrs later finally down FFS! Takes so much time out if the day... And if those cockatoos start up I'm going out to buy a shotgun this arvo!!!!!!!!

SeymoreInOz Tue 05-Mar-13 05:18:42

Ha, for me it's the kookaburras, particularly annoying at 4am. If I had to boot to hand I would lob it.

DS is impossible to settle in the day, he won't feed to sleep, rocking, patting, shushing, walking him in the pram or sling, none of it works. In fact I actually think it keeps him awake. He seems to need to cry for a minute or two before he can nod off. I try everything and he always cries before he sleeps. We've got visitors staying soon and I'm really nervous about it, they'll prob think I'm torturing the poor thing. I've tried the dummy a few times but he won't have that either!

SeymoreInOz Tue 05-Mar-13 05:24:00

And after all that he wakes up screaming 15 minutes later!!

CabbageHead Tue 05-Mar-13 07:15:26

Had a 1.5hr nap this arvo and 1hr this morning.. YAY TO ME!!!! FINALLY a decent sleep!!! I plugged him full of panadol this morn then nurofen this arvo and just wldnt give up and yelled GO TO SLEEP FFS tried to stay calm ... Heh

I'm sure tonight will be another battle but I'm ok cos I know we had a good day.. Ahhh sigh of relief, first breakthrough in over 2.5 wks...

Yeh we have kookaburras too, and always always they laugh and cookies start screeching at 4am... So very annoying! I'm thinking of getting a fake bird of prey to hangin a tree but then it will scare away all the nice pretty lovely birds.. Cockies r out there now squawking until after dusk...grrrrrr cocky curry anyone?

Crying before he sleep sis fine his just getting out the days fun... Babies r spouses to cry at bedtime so I wld say u r lucky.. I let DS cry and le it when he does cos that's how they get it all out of their system so their bodies can relax.. He doesn't cry enough anymore and just plays or whinges which is my problem!

Does it take him long to settle during day? Do u have music or white noise to soothe? Might not need it if he only cries for a minute or two? When he woke up screaming did u go in and try to shush him back to sleep? They wake screaming cos they r halfway thru sleep so I often try and shush back to sleep, works better as they get older and are able to transition between the sleep stages better.. Or maybe his ears if he has reflux...

CabbageHead Tue 05-Mar-13 07:41:47

Btw I love your posting name tickle cracked me up when I first saw it! DS now touches our dials (DH and me) when we r in shower and we go 'beep'... He thinks this is very funny! (it's always a game until u r out in a posh restaurant!)

Kafri Tue 05-Mar-13 08:13:50

hmmm think we're going backwards.

DS woke at 4, kept settled til 5 but wad squirmy! (is that a word)?

seems like he's starting with the writhing and groaning he used to to as a new newborn? ?
is it possible that his pepti 1 and omeprazole can become less effective? they were working so well sad

CabbageHead Tue 05-Mar-13 10:47:17

Hey kafri
Poor bub, that writhing thing is horrible when they r so uncomfortable... Don't they calculate Omeprazole by weight? So u have to keep adjusting it? Have u had his ears checked re fluid ? Does he get gassy or react to something in ur bm?

Once when I was having major letdown issues and DS was getting too much foremilk, it was making him gassy and refluxy, so I did the cabbage leaf thing where u stuff cabbage leaves on ur breasts to dry them up, well it dried one side up completely so I had to reestablish it all over (I have so many stories about bf!!) anyway for 3days afterwards, DS farted non stop and they STUNK of cabbage, and I mean STUNK!!!! It was like a super concentrate caBbage smell so bad... Poor DS, probably gave him brain damage! No wonder he can't sleep!

CabbageHead Tue 05-Mar-13 10:51:58

DS down at 7.50pm... Tried to get him in for 7.30pm cos he woke just before 4pm but DH took him for walk and came back 10mins too late as usual... Shits me so much he a,ways always does that.. I just know the very small window of opportunity i have to guve ds last bottle and get into bed.. If he is rubbing his eyes ears when im feeding him usually i am doomed to fail and will have to spend hours settling cos he goes straight into hypo mode...

Had to keep DS under the tight sheet again as he was jumping up etc, the more that happens the more he gets hypo.

Anyway kept telling him time for sleep, etc went out twice for lengthy periods, but he must have got fed up trying in the end, so went to sleep, panadol helped tho too..if only u could give it to them all day everyday!!

stargirl1701 Tue 05-Mar-13 20:24:12

Well, I've been for my psychological assessment. The doc says I am overly anxious but it is a normal reaction given what has happened to both of us over the last 6 months. So, I've to have ACT therapy starting on 18th April.

DD has decided to either have a good day OR a good night but not together. She slept really well last night (still doing the 3am dreamfeed) but would not nap longer than 20 min today even in the pram hmm

Kafri, I know you have PMd me but my app is playing up and I can't read it angry I'll try to log in online.

SeymoreInOz Tue 05-Mar-13 22:27:09

A minute or two was probably a bit generous! grin

Stargirl that's good news about the assessment.

So bottle refusal is our new thing, it started the day after I invested in a medela swing!!

DS was waking up every 2 hours last night and took ages to settle. He had quite a chilled morning though and was ready for a nap at school run time. I stupidly decided to put him in the pram and he screamed at the top of lungs the whole way there and back. I had to wave poor DD off at the entrance because she didn't want me to me to go in. Now he's overtired and is shouting the house down.

I basically don't leave the house now unless I absolutely have to. So school runs and food shopping only. I cannot stand the people stopping in their tracks and turning to stare or covering their ears. I want to scream at them. Even before I had kids I knew better than to make a mum with a screaming baby feel worse about the situation by acting like a complete tool. And breathe.

Natmu Wed 06-Mar-13 07:15:22

Hi all, welcome to new ones. Feeling shitty this morning. Had a really stressful day yesterday with DS2 screaming more or less all the time whilst trying to do school runs and hospital appointments. Today has started in just the same way. Up at 5. Played for an hour quite happy. Tried to put him down to make DS1's packed lunch. Screamed the house down. He's literally only happy when he's physically attached to me and I'm just so drained and exhausted. We co-sleep and he's getting very panicky and scared when I give him to anyone other than DH so I just feel like it's all on me. DH has a bad back and zero patience so he's not much help either. I've just had enough of looking like shit because I'm covered in puke or baby food and feeling like shit because I'm so tired. When can I be me again??? sad

Kafri Wed 06-Mar-13 07:36:52

aw natmu sending hugs.

if its any consolation in fed up of having absolutely nothing to wear as nithing fits yet and I refusr to go buy a new wardrobe when hopefully I'll get back in my old stuff.

im literally rotating 2 pairs of trackies and a pair of jeans for if I go anywhere and have to look half decent wink

stargirl1701 Wed 06-Mar-13 13:01:41

Kafri gringringrin

I was back in my clothes 2 months later but then it was Christmas. I am back in my maternity clothes... hmm

MXP78 Wed 06-Mar-13 17:05:40

Star girl - what's ACT therapy?

We're on holiday at the moment. First time away from home. Thought my anxiety had pretty much gone but now it's back! DD not coping well with having to sleep somewhere that's not her own cot. Having a total screaming meltdown every time we try and put her in the travel cot. Our cottage is connected to another and on the otherside of the wall to her cot is the head of the other people's bed. They must loooove us. Too scared to make eye contact with them as they must wonder what we're doing to her. Squealings her new thing so she does that about every 5 mins when she wants to do something new. We've been out for lunch twice and DH and i had to take it in turns to eat our lunch alone at the table while the other jiggled and walked around the restaurant with DD to stop her screaming. She wont even sit on our laps. Has to be full walking around. And even then tries to push off us. Like SeymourinOz said, it just doesn't feel worth leaving the house. Going on holiday has just bought my anxiety back sad

MXP78 Wed 06-Mar-13 17:10:40

Also meant to ask, has anyone got their LO in daycare. Before I had DD I was not intending on going back to work. I thought I was going to be this brilliant stay at home Mum. But the reality is far from that, I'm really not enjoying it.. I feel like I can't do this 5 days a week anymore on my own. So am thinking of trying to go back to work part time but the thought of putting DD in child care really worries me with the way she is. She needs to be constantly moved around or she meltsdown. How can they accommodate that in a nursery?

stargirl1701 Wed 06-Mar-13 20:29:30

Oh, MXP we had that happen on holiday too. It was hands down the worst holiday we've ever had. Just a long weekend in Aviemore but she would not settle. We heaved a sigh of relief when we got home.

I believe ACT is Acceptance & Commitment Therapy. I'm not sure what it entails - I'm supposed to be doing Internet homework grin I'm actually washing DD's clothes as we need to move to the next size. Time to venture into the attic!

DD is not in any childcare at the moment. I'm meant to be taking a year for my mat leave but, like you, I'm really not enjoying it. I just hope the next 6 months is better than the first 6 months. I plan to use a childminder rather than a nursery as I think DD will need a close, nurturing relationship rather than a busy nursery. Just need to find one...

stargirl1701 Wed 06-Mar-13 20:49:50

Well DD is 6 months old today grin

She is sleeping upstairs, alone, for the first time ever! Gulp! I'm sitting downstairs with the monitor wondering if she is ok smile No screaming yet...

Nightmoves Thu 07-Mar-13 20:48:56

<lays out fresh tray of matchsticks and brew, adds brandy>

stargirl that sounds like great progress. Even if she wakes up in the next minute it is still a new accomplishment and amazing. Yay! You must be so proud of her!

DS's sleep is all over the shop at the mo. Very demanding days plus little naps, very grudgingly taken I might add, make for one pissed off and tired mama. He is also refusing to lie down to get his nappy changed and challenging my authority a lot. Screams bloody murder if I, for example, take something away he has sneakily acquired that he's not supposed to have. Things had better settle down soon... How I'm going to cope when he's a fully fledged toddler I don't know. My baby centre 11 month old newsletter emailed today has an article on whether you are ready for another baby! Ha!!! What a laugh. Can't cope with one!!!!

natmu that is shit things are tough for you too. Can't believe you have two. Do you ever feel you have been posting here for so long things should be better by now??????!!!!!!

Nightmoves Thu 07-Mar-13 20:50:55

Ps - that happened to us on holiday too. We were so close to staying in our room with room service towards the end of the week. He is much better now I have to say. Phew!!!

Kafri Thu 07-Mar-13 21:52:27

star YAY!!! good on you, and her. how long did she nap?

CabbageHead Thu 07-Mar-13 22:57:29

Hi chooks, DS has a bad cold so been a tad busy...

Yeh I lived in 2sets of trackies and same tops for 6mths... Was great when reflux calmed down, no point in spoiling nice clothes! U will get there...

I don't reckon many high needs bubs makeit to daycare.. I never thought I'd do daycare also thought I'd be happy stay at home mum.. And I REMEMBER very clearly the thought finally dawning that's could put DS in daycare and avoid him by going to work!! Wot a great feeling! But then I thought if he doesn't nap well at daycare he,ll be up all night even more ... Who knows... I am contemplating work for one two days a week just for my sanity.. At the mo he won't even sleep at grandmas so not sure ... Hopefully he,ll get used tout and I think they just take longer than other bubs... [hmmm]

Yeh I didn't even go home to NZ until last month when DS was 10mths becos I couldn't face the challenge. We had trial run had 5day holiday at friends place in country town ..he slept better there tha at home! He was very relaxed, my friend also had a diff son (grown p into lovely young man), so she was great, he also loved her kitty and scooting around her big home...

Made me think maybe our home has too much crap and is way too over stimulating for him...as hers is uncluttered and spacious! But it was quiet there day and night. The portacot wasn't too much of an issue, but I covered it in blankets even half over top which I know is it no no but I think the cave womb like surroundings must've helped... And very noisy fan and consistent temperature as well..

When we went home to NZ I chose not to stay in hotel as too noisy disruptive so we hired a house... Was great but he slept terribly, think the portacot was uncomfortable and woteva washing powder they used on the sheets was so overpowering I couldn't handle it so DS is prob the same..

Yeh we have the nappy change challenge now, I have at least 3thngs for distraction at nappy change table and bath time , just have to find new things to amuse him all the time. Worst is shoving the rotor book into the poo depths below... Good one!

CabbageHead Thu 07-Mar-13 23:03:57

I'm so tired from the multiple wakings due to shot monster blocked nose that I just walked him up street in pram with my eyes closed!

And last night I jumped into the cot hoping that wld help him sleep but he just wriggled and writhed and kept kicking the cot bars... Lucky I was so delirious last night I just found everything funny (for a change!!!).. I tried to put him in pram for bedtime so he could sleep sitting up,but he got so hysterical which was great as that tired him out heh... U know how moronic it gets at night where u are trying to open doors but it's the wall, and putting soothing balm on his dummy, or as DH does tries to stick dummy in his ear ha ha HO HO so funny one day we will look back and laugh...hmm

That reminds me of the time i gave him massage oil instead of teething mix in the dark in middle of the night! I can't believe he drank the entire amount! Lucky it was baby massage oil so just olive oil and lavender and chamomile!!! Didn't help sedate him tho... I rang my friend who is a nurse the next day and she just laughed her head off and said it prob just give him a good clean out... So it's a family joke now, quick get the massage oil and give him a dose!

CabbageHead Fri 08-Mar-13 08:15:42

Usual story tonight, got DH to help settle DS fr bedtime as my sternum is killing me... 1.5 hrs later.... HO hum.. so annoying as yesterday I got him into bed at 6pm to catch up on sleep as naps were short... No chance of that today as DH Gives in too easily, then leaves DS to get more and more OT therefore very hypo... Sigh... Short arvo nap because roof contracting (goes clunk very loudly) woke DS up...

stargirl1701 Fri 08-Mar-13 08:32:30

Thank you for the nibbles Night grin

Cabbage, you're going to need that coffee! I hope you get a rest soon.

Well DD last an hour and a half on Wed night. Not too bad. We are off to PILs this weekend... DH & I should get an evening out but, going on last time, probably not much sleep. hmm

stargirl1701 Fri 08-Mar-13 09:32:09

Gah! This baby! Up half the night and now napping like an angel.

<sobs> I want both........I want napping and sleeping.


CabbageHead Fri 08-Mar-13 10:11:33

Haha I am still in the habit of not drinking coffee for fear of it passing into my breastmilk and keeping DS awake even more!!!

I did read on a great website by experienced sleep nurse grandma that often babies r like that, either good night sleepers or good day nappers... Urs just alternates to keep u n ur toes!!!

Early to bed for us tonight... DS is not so snotty today so no doubt tomorrow will be back o his ol tricks...h E has actually been much better to settle while he as been sick... Too tired to fight the hands that want to MAKE HIM SLEEP...!

Off to bed now... hmm

MXP78 Fri 08-Mar-13 14:14:33

So back from holiday. Phew! Last 2 nights weren't as bad as she missed her afternoon sleep so was so exhausted at bed she fell asleep breastfeeding which she hasn't done since she was about 2 weeks old. We also took her swimming on both days. It was her first time and maybe that's what tired her out to fall asleep feeding as well. Woke up a few times in the night but easily went back to sleep so not too bad. Car ride home also not too bad... She slept for most of it even though she wasn't due a sleep. My how times have changed. When she was 3 months old she was due a sleep for hour car ride and still screamed for all of it. So, she is getting better. Must keep focussing on that!

CabbageHead - I'm also from NZ. Where are you from in NZ? Are you living in Oz? I'm in London and no way I will take DD on that flight any time soon. Just the thought of it is making me sick!

So sorry for those with the really bad sleepers at night. I lived with that for 6 months and it was nearly the end of me. Going to get controversial here... but has anyone tried controlled crying? We did it when our DD was 6 months old and it's the only thing that has saved me from depression I think. She used to wake up about 8 - 10 times a night. Now she sleeps from 7pm - 5am. I am a different person now. I know there's lots of arguments against it but I wasn't coping without sleep and needed it to be a better Mummy which I am now.

stargirl1701 Fri 08-Mar-13 22:18:13

MXP, I'm glad you enjoyed some of your holiday. I must admit I loved taking my class swimming as behaviour was always better. It seems to tire children out in a way no other exercise does.

DD is just 6 months so we haven't done CC. I'm not ready to try it yet.

SeymoreInOz Fri 08-Mar-13 22:36:12

MXP I'm glad the rest of your holiday was good, the first holiday with a baby is always a bit of a slap in the face. I remember buying magazines in the airport, thinking I would read them, ha! We're living in Oz and will have to make the flight back to the UK at some point. I feel panicky just thinking about it, he is so unbelievably loud and he cries so much. If only I could just feed him to sleep!

I had a monster migraine last night and took migraleve, the flashing lights were so bad I couldn't read what the leaflet said about breastfeeding. I think it's ok as a one off but DS did a 4 hour stretch between feeds last night so it must have affected him.

I must get my act together to take him swimming soon, the bath is often the only thing that stops the yelling. I'm still not really going out anywhere with him though. Do I just need to woman up and accept that he will yell and people will stare??

CabbageHead Sat 09-Mar-13 03:28:17

Kia Ora mxp I'm from rotorua how bout you? Yeh I have lived in oz since I was 19 but my family r all still in NZ... I did live in London for 18mths when I was 20.. Yeh I wldnt take DS on long flight either it wld be hell for other passengers and us!

Yeh it's hard to balance giving them enough playtime without becoming OT or overstimulated, and feeding and settling! I find if DS is out with me in car errands etc then often he hasn't burnt off enough energy before his naptime but may still be OT...

Ha ha I was reading a previous post on here about CC that dev into a majorly heated discussion! I have no issue with CC, anything works if u r consistent enough I think dep on temperament, sickness etc... Yes I started it when I was referred to sleep school when DS was 4.5mths... They usually don't start sleep training until 6mths but they took 1 look at DS, deemed him high needs and recommended I start sleep training ASAP becos he is so strong minded.. (and he did the 45min nap mostly so was OT all the time)..

CC has worked for me on and off, mostly it works unless ts sickness or milestone time and I have to resort to other tactics... I know def now that because of his age however I settle him it must be in cot (not PUPD).

I had to walk him and rock him a bit the last 2days since he was I'll and also on HO,s when he was in portacot so I have just broken that habit when we got back from NZ but then cos he had to learnt to stand up in cot I found that I had a meerkat!!!! So I have to keep him down under a really tight sheet at first otherwise CC doesn't work because he doesn't cry he just plays and plays for hours...

He has always been able to self settle it's just his strong temperament that means he will take on a battle and wants everything his way. He had just started STTN before we went to NZ, so now we r back to inconsistent sleeping mainly because of being so OT. But I know he will get there again soon once we get past the standing up... Of course then it will be walking so there is no end in sight really!! Just have to survive each week basically and keep an eye on the wonder weeks helps too, I always forget about them..

mxp I empathize on the loudness issue, my DS is funny, he is very quiet and well behaved out of home, saves the yelling for at home mainly with me.. Sometimes he is SO LOUD I think he has burst my eardrum! I keep saying as soon as he is a kid running around shouting, I'm going to make him a tshirt with volume knobs on it so he can turn himself down we we ask him too! (kind of a visual reminder).

Yes we r lucky we have beach closely because positive ions good to breathe in for sleeping too ( fresh air at beach) but of course it's always a dilemma fitting in a trip (40mi s drive return at least) and fitting meals in and getting back in time for wind down for nap! As best time for beach is morning as too hot or windy later but it's his shortest awake in morning ... Can't wait to he drops to one sleep so life will be more manageable.

My biggest issue as that DH has 50%success rate in settling for sleeps so i dont get a break from the constant battle. Catch 22 situation 24/7 which perpetuates the sleep battle even more!

DH is out of town tonite playing gig so I'm solo tonight grrrrrr... Only cos I'm so tired and I really hurt my body last few days having to carry rock soothe DS while he was sick and struggling to breathe...

stargirl1701 Sat 09-Mar-13 20:37:53

At the cinema with DH gringrin

stargirl1701 Sun 10-Mar-13 16:09:01

Happy Mother's Day to you all! grin

MXP78 Sun 10-Mar-13 18:31:16

Thanks stargirl Happy Mothers day to you too. Hope you had a nice evening at the cinema. Nice to do something normal again? What did you see?

seymoreinoz the bath was also the only thing that would stop my DD crying in the early evening. It was so strange, she'd be crying for an hour, put her in the bath and she'd stop and smile and laugh and play happily. As soon as I took her out of the bath, the crying would start again immediately. So I thought she'd love swimming. she did seem to enjoy it but only for about 15 mins. She may have been getting cold though. I think you just need to bite the bullet and get out of the house. At the start I was so nervous that she would go into one and people would stare. NOw I just think, I can always just go home if I need to. Even if it means leaving a trolley full of groceries!

cabbagehead I'm from Wellington and miss it and my family terribly sad. Moved to Oz in 2006 for 4.5 years then to the UK (with British husband) Re the loudness. DD nearly gave an elderly woman a heart attack on our holiday. We were out for lunch and she let out one of her all mighty screams/squeals and this lady literally jumped off her seat. My MIL has to turn her hearing aids off when she comes over as DD nearly bursts her ear drums with the squealing.

Hope everyone in the UK has had a great Mother's day. You are all doing amazing jobs dealing with our little challenging treasures!

CabbageHead Sun 10-Mar-13 23:07:36

Ha ha mxp that's so funny about the lady on ur hols and ur MIL having to turn down her hearing aid!!! I'm sure its not funny for you but it's funny al the same! Yeh the squealing is horrible, lucky DS is more a shouter although he does like to squeal in the bathroom as better acoustics for shrieking he has discovered.... Hrumph! angry

I wonder if the warm water in bath soothed her pain, sore belly or legs or something...? DS just loves bath and shower too much it is not a relaxing experience it's more of a sport so we can't do bath before bed because revs him up too much... Sigh!

Wellington is lovely place one of my friends lives there.. Too cold for me tho, but yeh I miss my friends so much as they r all scattered around.. My poor mum cries every time she sees DS,s bib that we left behind !

stargirl yay u got to be a normal person detached from your limpet for a night! I would love to go to movies DH keeps saying we shld go but I'm am always was too tired!

seymore maybe u could wear a tshirt that says... BACK OFF !!! SO MY KID YELLS AT LEAST HE DOESNT STARE RUDELY AT PEOPLE!!!!!

mxp and seymore or maybe when u get on the bus just hand out earplugs and don't say anything. Or maybe you should get on the bus with your own industrial earmuffs then you would be oblivious, hey I reckon that's what u should do!

On the plus side we have had two good nights with only one or two wakings, DS has 4more teeth poking thru so no wonder he was up all night... Wish they,d all come thru at once! (don't wish it on Him tho!)..

I had a terrible coup,e of days after waking up with his cold stuffy nose I was exhausted, climbed into cot twice to try and make him sleep...I was crying from exhaustion and I just had to keep him in his cot in his room even tho he wldnt sleep becos I just had no energy to get him up and play with him... I feel better today.. Women's troubles!

Gee it's so comfortable in his cot can't understand why he can't sleep lol! I'm was so exhausted yesterday that I fell asleep in the arvo (for 15mins), and forgot about friends baby shower, feel terrible but she understands our dilemma luckily..

Happy mummy's day everyone. My MIL gave me a mum,s number 1 badge for mothers day but I didn't feel like I was a number one mum at the time! Bittersweet the first Mothers day when you have high needs bubs !

SeymoreInOz Tue 12-Mar-13 02:00:42

That's a brilliant idea! DD has actually got some ear defenders (bought for a fireworks display, very pfb) I'm going to start wearing them all the time! God you must exhausted cabbage, I hope you get a few more good nights.

DS is the same, the screaming stops in the bath and starts up again as soon as you get him out. I think it reminds him of happier times in the womb! His tummy is definitely giving him gip at the mo.

CabbageHead Tue 12-Mar-13 10:10:34

Hey I hav another idea fr u guys with the bubs that r only in the bathtub... Why don't we go into business designing mini cot waterbeds ! Maybe that would keep em calm and womb like... We could design a black canopy over the Cot that comes with speakers playing continuous womb music and hypnotic subliminal messages such as... 'you must sleep now until mummy comes to wake you zzzz'

I was bored yesterday couldn't face another round f chasing DS around the rooms getting him away from every drawer and cupboard... So we has a massive bath (our bath is really big so is like a pool for him!) together as it was really hot, so a tepid bath to keep cool, and he didn't want to get out cried and carried on like a pork chop little tyke! Kept trying to climb back in.. Cor blimey!

stargirl1701 Sat 16-Mar-13 14:32:29

Hi folks! I hope you're all coping grin

We went to see A Good to Die Hard MXP. It was pretty rubbish. But, it was lovely to go to the cinema and we both stayed awake!!

We've had a very good week this week until yesterday. DD has been super clingy again. DH is currently out driving with her to get her to nap.

Paediatric appt on 3rd of April is getting closer...

Lowesy Sat 16-Mar-13 23:24:59

Hello all, I've just found this thread after lurking for sometime. Wish I'd found it sooner! Just sat and read through the three links in the second post and have sat and cried. It was like reading a profile of my 22mo DD. Am just trying to come to terms with the relief of discovering it isn't my fault and there's nothing 'wrong' with her so feeling incredibly emotional atm but I will read through this thread properly and definitely be back if that's ok!

stargirl1701 Sun 17-Mar-13 08:24:45

Hi Low! Welcome. Please do come back grin

Natmu Sun 17-Mar-13 10:44:52

Hi all, just wondering how you have all found weaning. DS2 is 6.5 months and we've been trying to do weaning for about 6 weeks. He scoffed everything in sight to start with but has completely gone off everything in the past couple of weeks. I'm doing a combination of purees and blw. He went off purée first and is now screaming when he's trying to feed himself as well. He's got a slight cough and cold and has just got his first two teeth. DH thinks this is putting him off his food but I feel like it's been going on for weeks. What do you think? Anyone had a similar experience? Should I just keep offering food at stage 1 times or give up completely?

stargirl1701 Sun 17-Mar-13 13:57:18

DD is 27 weeks. We started weaning at 24 weeks on the advice of a paediatrician through the GP. She has silent reflux. She screams for about an hour after solids. Her lips and tissue around her mouth are blue after swallowing. But, she keeps going...at the moment.

We're having a hell of a day. She's been full on screaming since 11.30pm. I've popped her in her cot to see if she'll settle. I'm downstairs listening to the screaming. Jeez this parenting is bloody tough.

stargirl1701 Sun 17-Mar-13 18:30:52

I'm grumpy. I'm sick of this reflux. I'm sick of not being able to do anything. I'm exhausted. I just want to cry today.

I went to the supermarket to see if she would stop screaming. She didn't. Fucking people. So many comments. I just kept smiling but I so wanted to tell them to fuck off.

MXP78 Sun 17-Mar-13 21:03:04

Oh stargirl, I know how you feel. It just feels like it's never going to end. I said to my DH I'm sick of timing everything around when I think DD will be least likely to have a meltdown E.g. only going for a walk when she's due a sleep, only going for a long trip in the car if she's due a sleep, walking for 40 mins to get her to sleep then running into Costa and scoffing lunch as I know I've only got 30 mins before she wakes up and and cries to get out of the pram and then catapults herself all over my lap so I have to leave. Sigh.

Had a crap week as well. My DH spoke to his Mum and told her I needed some help and asked if she could look after DD for a few hours each week to give me a break. So she very kindly said she could look after her on Tues afternoon. She comes and picks her up and I sit on the couch ready to just relax and watch TV. I've been sitting down for 10 mins and my neighbour knocks on my door to say that someone has just smashed into the back of our parked car and driven off. I go outside and the back is totally smashed in. So I spend the whole afternoon sorting insurance/police and now we have no car! ARGHHHHH.

Natmu I've been really lucky with weaning. We waited until DD was 5.5 months and she eats everything I give her and has continued to. If I were you I'd just keep trying. Especially handing her bits of food to feed herself. Also you don't have to wait until mealtimes to do that. You just need to make sure your LO is sitting up.

Lowesy I've also recently found this thread and felt so relieved I wasn't the only one going through this and it was nothing to do with me!

stargirl1701 Sun 17-Mar-13 23:07:59

Oh MXP! That's awful. What a nightmare. The hassle of it more than anything else!! Will you get a courtesy car from your insurer?

Natmu Mon 18-Mar-13 06:26:32

Thanks MXP. I'm trying really hard not to get stressed by it but I'm so disappointed because I was really looking forward to the excitement of weaning. It's just been awful so far. Though not as awful as your incident with the car. You poor thing. What a nightmare. I can't believe people are so shitty as to just drive off after doing something like that.

CabbageHead Mon 18-Mar-13 09:29:01

Hi everyone

Just trying to sedate the creature and get dindins ready simultaneously...

stargirl what do u mean her lips are blue after eating? From allergy or what? That's horrible! Poor bub! Reflux is such torture for everyone.. DS grew out of his at 6 mths approx but we were still left with the sleeping behavioral issues.. Ongoing although better and better each month, but I still struggle every week trying to settle him.

But that's because I am banging my head against wall with DH and his family, so DS remains in a state of perpetual OT. I know if I could do everything I wanted to do each day (as in not argue abut keeping him up and OT having PIL and DH overstimulation him I know he would be much much easier. It's like each week I work so hard to catch up his sleep so he is happier during day then each week it goes to the pack because of everyone else's agenda...

It's so frustrating but I just have to grin and bear.

Creature still awake... 8.20pm... Cannot calm himself down at all when he is so OT... So annoying cos theni end up PUPD instead of being usual strict mummy settle in cot but if I don't try and wind him down he will be there all night...

(tonight is payback for going over to friends last night nd leaving DS with DH... Even I couldn't get DS to settle for arvo nap today each day losing more and more sleep every week same story drives me insane

Yes DS will be 1yr old next month, I'm still sleep deprived my LO is only one that doesn't STTN, I'm pressured by everyone to give up bf and DH and his family all thik it's my parenting style and refuse to believe its DS temperament.

Tried to settle him for nap at PIL on Sat he tried to leap out of pram... Having FIL playin his ukulele in his face before naptime is really so helpful.(every effing time so effing annoying) they just will not give him space to wind down. Imbeginning to think the entire family are completely stupid...

Crap about car poor you guys just what u don't need... Mxp and natmu.

. Re Weaning been ok here cos greedy so and so... Def off his food when teething though ESP fruit for some bizarre reason... Keep trying diff stuff we have to keep him engaged with other stuff to play with to distract him as always tired or bored when eating!

stargirl1701 Mon 18-Mar-13 14:17:54

Oh god my Dad does daft stuff like that too. A bloody nightmare Cabbage!

The blue lips/mouth is not new. DD had this when bf at the beginning, then when ff later and now with solids. Heart & lungs both checked and are normal. I've to mention it to the paediatrician. We were at the GP again this morning hmm to discuss the poo situation. I've to take samples; oh, what joy grin

MXP, what's happening with the car?

stargirl1701 Tue 19-Mar-13 17:17:27

All the pooing must be taking it out of her. She's had two naps today. This morning - 2 and half hours - and this afternoon - 2 hours. I feel like I'm in The Twilight Zone. This has never happened. Ever. In her entire life.

But, will she sleep tonight? grin

stargirl1701 Tue 19-Mar-13 22:11:18

Ah, yes. Not sleeping...

CabbageHead Wed 20-Mar-13 10:43:54

Wots going o n in the poo sector stargirl? Have I been missing something? And u,d think with all that sleep during day that night must be good u know sleep begets sleep and all that (actually that is really true for our DS, if his day sleeps r bad then night is horrible )

Oh lowesy u r going to feel right at home here...

<offers plate of pikelets overflowing with fake cream and sponges of strawberry jam>

Been in hell here the standing up milestone is killing me slowly... DS cannot keep still at all it's like his electrical circuit is on high and he doesn't know how to switch it off... I have been really struggling to settle him, have to rock him again if there is any possibility of getting him down at reasonable time...

At the moment if I leave the room he just jumps up and then gets all fired up nd goes into hyper OT mode.. Driving me insane... Lots of tears of frustration (me not him!!!) sigh.... I just have to be so patient which I did today but only cos I had 4hrs sleep in one hit YAY!!!!

I'm getting pretty over this now at 11mths.. Today I was saying the mantra...'this too will pass....'

MXP78 Wed 20-Mar-13 17:36:38

Hi all,

Nothing happening with the car so far. Police done nothing, garage haven't phoned me back to say how long it will take to get fixed. ARGHHHH. My insurance company said that the driver hasn't reported the incident to his insurance company. I said "Duh, he drove off, that doesn't surprise me!". So carless in this pants weather!

I went to a friends today and someone offered me a lift. Anxiety about DD screaming in the car seat kicks in. SHe was okayish on the way there. Started crying 5 mins before we got there. But cried all the way home. I was relying on someone to give me a lift home so had to wait until they were ready. She was so tired and they were like "Oh she'll fall asleep in the car". I was thinking, clearly you haven't met my DD!.

cabbage I know it's not funny but I could not stop laughing when reading your FIL ukelele story. ARE YOU SERIOUS? People have no idea. And don't give up breastfeeding if you don't want to. Your baby is not like that because of breastfeeding. I'm still BF and not giving up until I want to. Couldn't give a rats what anyone else says! (DD is only 9mths, please don't have visions of me bfing a teenager! ha hah )

Stargirl good luck on those samples! What's up with the poo anyway? Do they think it's related to the reflux?

Lowesy Sat 23-Mar-13 12:50:05

Hi folks thanks for the welcome smile

Re weaning, my DD was pretty good. We went down the puree route which seemed to work really well. DD had reflux so giving her stuff like baby rice really helped plus because you mixed it up with her comfort milk (ff) it was a familiar taste. However, now at 22mo she's decided food is vile, poisonous and evil hmm

It's very stressful atm she has approximately 10 different things she will eat. And there is no consistency, I.e it's not chewy food she doesn't like because one of the things on her list that she will eat is pickled red cabbage! But she won't eat meat because it's too much effort to chew! This is meat out of the slow cooker peeps so lovely and meltingly soft!! And it's not strong flavours she's averse to - I draw your attention back to exhibit A the pickled cabbage!!!

Oh and add to that absolutely NO breakfast food. No toast, no cereal, no eggs, no croissants, no fruit. NOTHING. And she gets so stressed out if you offer her more food if she's decided she's finished or if you offer her something she's decided is horrid not having tried it. It's like she's afraid of food some days. Have been using doctor google and reading lots on food neophobia in toddlers. It's something "she will grow out of". Fab. Still waiting for her to grow out of waking up at night tbf :D

MXP78 - feel your pain re car journeys. DD wants someone in the back with her and never sleeps in the car. Am looking into buying her a dvd player so Peppa Pig can keep her company on the 15 mins max journeys I do with her!

Can I join you all? DS was massively high needs and still is but so much better than he was due to being able to move around since he started walking and little things I have learned along the way which seem to have chilled him out. I feel for those of you still in the early stages, hope it gets easier for you soon

Really struggling with sleep at the moment. Do all your LOs struggle to sleep more than an hour at night too?!

MXP78 Sun 24-Mar-13 18:23:45

Hi moresnowplease, I'm glad you've said your LO is better now he's walking. I'm desperate for my DD to walk as I also think she'll be much happier. She just seems permanently frustrated that she can't get to things and I don't know if she'll figure out crawling as doesn't have the patience! My DD was a terrible sleeper and used to wake up nearly every hour. But she's much better now.

Lowesy can't believe pickled cabbage is one of the things your DD will eat! My LO is the same with offering food once she's decided she's finished. She'll be eating away happily then next second screaming and squealing and starting to cry and whacking the spoon away. There is no warning!

Had a pretty bad week last week. DD's squealing is out of control. I went to a friends house and she kept squealing and scared the other babies. One of them cried as they crawled up to her and she screamed in their face. I was only there for about 45 minutes and then had to go as she started to meltdown. Meanwhile the other 3 babies just played on the floor the whole time. sigh. The only way to stop her melting down is to get up and walk around the house with her. I didn't know the person that well so couldn't do that so just had to leave. Imagine if I'd said "sorry, I'm going to have to go upstairs and walk around your bedroom!"

stargirl1701 Tue 26-Mar-13 12:48:19

Hi folks. Well it's been an eventful few days. We ended up in A&E with DD as she had a temp of 39.1 degrees. They were able to access the test results and it turns out she has a gastrointestinal virus called adenovirus. Poo has abated somewhat now thank goodness.

I think she must be feeling better as normal service has resumed here. She was up constantly crying last night till we gave her Calpol at midnight and she slept till 2am. Totally refusing to nap today. I've just had an hour and half of screaming while rubbing her bloody eyes. Just go to sleep!!!!!

Lowesy Tue 26-Mar-13 15:52:04

Hi stargirl, hope your DD is feeling better soon. Have just had the same thing re sleep - my DD woke up mid nap and refused to go back to sleep as I had the audacity to be on the phone when she woke up. Have laid with her and cuddled her for another 40 mins but despite being exhausted, once she's up, she's up. I predict a fun dinner and bath time!!

Am finding DD's persistent nature to be a massive challenge the past couple of days. She will go on and on and on saying the same thing for ages even if she's been given an answer or even ignored. Just does not let up. Latest thing was being told that the pc was switched off at my Mum's house so she couldn't watch Peppa on youtube. Cue her crying for half an hour saying over and over "it's broken, it's broken" despite being told that it wasn't and that she could watch Peppa later. Then when you thought you'd distracted her, she'd remember and start up again. Exhausting!

Lowesy Tue 26-Mar-13 15:52:04

Hi stargirl, hope your DD is feeling better soon. Have just had the same thing re sleep - my DD woke up mid nap and refused to go back to sleep as I had the audacity to be on the phone when she woke up. Have laid with her and cuddled her for another 40 mins but despite being exhausted, once she's up, she's up. I predict a fun dinner and bath time!!

Am finding DD's persistent nature to be a massive challenge the past couple of days. She will go on and on and on saying the same thing for ages even if she's been given an answer or even ignored. Just does not let up. Latest thing was being told that the pc was switched off at my Mum's house so she couldn't watch Peppa on youtube. Cue her crying for half an hour saying over and over "it's broken, it's broken" despite being told that it wasn't and that she could watch Peppa later. Then when you thought you'd distracted her, she'd remember and start up again. Exhausting!

mxp how old is your LO?showing signs of walking soon?hope it's the same for you, it's totally chilled DS out and he's gone from needing to be held constantly to wanting to be put down to wonder around and play on his own, shocking!

stargirl hope your DD is better now? Ds had a bug like that a few weeks ago, was hell!

lowesy sounds like hard work!how old is your LO?

Lowesy Tue 26-Mar-13 17:22:54

Snow, she's 22 months old. I'm sure the majority of it is just toddlerhood as toddlers do do this but when it's all day every day it does get a bit tiresome! Does anyone else feel like they're just repeating themselves over and over?! It's got to the point that if DH asks me to repeat something I get really stroppy and just can't be bothered blush

Lowesy Tue 26-Mar-13 17:22:54

Snow, she's 22 months old. I'm sure the majority of it is just toddlerhood as toddlers do do this but when it's all day every day it does get a bit tiresome! Does anyone else feel like they're just repeating themselves over and over?! It's got to the point that if DH asks me to repeat something I get really stroppy and just can't be bothered blush

MXP78 Tue 26-Mar-13 19:49:53

moresnowplease she's 8.5 mths. She can stand holding on to something and can pull herself up to standing from sitting. She is very strong on her legs and has been for a long time. She permanently wants to be on her feet.

DH and I are going to look at a nursery on Thurs AM. I really think I need to go back to work. Feeling sad as thought I'd really want to be a stay at home Mum, but it's just too hard sad

Oh and an update on the car - the garage think it's going to be a write off!!!!!!! Meanwhile, 2 weeks later, the police still haven't done anything about the driver that fled the scene even though they have the registration. I am SO ANGRY.

CabbageHead Wed 27-Mar-13 05:18:08

Hi chooks

Hope u r all having a decent day... Been out of contact as too busy sedating the beast and getting my head round a new transition... OMFG if it snot one thing it's another...

Finally getting a breather DS has figured out how to sleep better at night FFS!! Ony taken 11 mths!!! Well actually I'm happy but trying not to get too excited cos I KNOW IT WON'T LAST!! Last 2 night s has slept thru and woken only nice for short period (not hour and half!) yay yay yay.. Only bummer is it was full moon so I couldn't sleep so effing annoying to have ur nonsleeping baby finally asleep and then u r wide awake!

He has had several long days sleeps too so we just freaking that he is dead of course cos it's so unusual u start panicking! Anyway after fighting all his naps all of a sudden have just figured out he is trying to transition to one nap.

Over. My. Dead. Body. ! He can't even catch up on sleep is constantly overtired NO WAY is he going to have one sleep a day! Anyway at least I understand wots going on now cos I had no effing idea there for a while... So each day is a surprise and battle as I don't know when he due to be tired.. (typical high needs changes every day)

Figured first nap around 10am now but second nap all over the place.. At least I have a bit of leeway now if one nap a day is FINALLY at least 1hour long...

Yay yay yay yay rest rest rest rest

Stargirl glad u got sorted even if u had to go to AnE to figure it out..

Mxp don't feel bad about going back to work u don't have to be a superhero you just have to be best mum u can be and if that means more life balance for u by working and means u have more patience then in long run it will be better for bub, you and family in general.. Don't feel guilty... Man heap sof chics I worked with had bubs and went back to work after 6weeks! Some becos they had to, but a lot for other reasons..

Lowesy think ur DD is in that fussy eating phase .. I am so dreading that as at the mo DS will eat nearly everything but spits out all chunks as too lazy to chew! My youngest stepdaughter was a horror of a child to feed until now she's 16 and much better, she was so fussy it was insane drove us all bonkers.

MOre snow, friggin milestones and teething and highly sensitive babies equal recipe for ongoing torture.. That is all I have to say about the matter of no sleep... I reckon it's definitely possible to die an excruciating death from sleep deprivation!

DS 1st birthday next month thinking of hiring plane to fly over with cloud formation writing 'I just survived 12months!' ha ha... Planning cake now..

Lowesy maybe you should "lose your voice" accidentally on purpose might give you the break you need and require lots of TLC from DH !

mxp sounds like she's nearly there! Maybe the wanting to be on their feet all the time is a high needs trait, DS was the same and started walking at 6.5 months because of it, and then he was like a different baby, doesn't need me anymore! apart from to get back to sleep every hour at night

cabbage how did you manage to get him sleeping?! Fingers crossed it continues, sleep deprivation is really awful

I'm really angry s went to he gp to check nothing wrong with DS as he has endless feeding and sleeping problems. She literally took his temperature and declared there was nothing physically wrong with him and tat I needed to just get him out of my bed into his own room and cut his naps short so he only has one. In my sleep deprived and desperate state I cut his naps short to just having two of half hour each, yesterday and today. His sleep has been worse, hes been extremely hard to settle, has taken to screaming again like when he was younger. I'm so pissed off that I listened to her after I spent he last 9 months getting to the stage where he will nap well for a good amount of time, feel like I've just messed the last 9 months of hell up

CabbageHead Wed 27-Mar-13 23:57:26

more snow wow can't believe ur DS walked at 6.5 mths!

I didn't do anything to change sleep DS did it all n his own... Woke twice last night think he was hungry but since he has been sleeping thru better we r getting DH to do all night wakings to stop feeding at night and so I get a decent nights sleep becos a year of sleep dep is killing me as I'm 43 as well so very hard to lose. That much sleep at this old age! Heh..

Who knows thought he'd have a long nap this morn but looks lifehe has just done half an hour, he was tired from wake up again...

Yeh most gps have not got a clue... Could you ask a feeding consultant (lactation).. How old is DS again? Wot sort of feeding issues? Does he have tongue tie? Or intolerances? I have read that it's better to keep 2 naps as long as possible but prob depends on bub I guess.. I reckon follow ur instinct.. I read lots of sleep stuff online then try and find the best solution that suits DS personality from experience cos half the advice you give only relates to 'normal' bubs that sleep well anyway!

CabbageHead Thu 28-Mar-13 09:58:34

Ha ha ha have to laughat myself... My sleeping DS was short lived... Tired again from wake up, only had one 30min nap for entire day... Wish me luck tonight! sad

CabbageHead Fri 29-Mar-13 07:30:29

Managed to get him down at 5.30pm he was so exhausted. I had to stay with him until 7pm just to get thru until his usual crash out time when he goes completely out to it... So if he stirred I could pat him back to sleep without him waking fully conscious.. Worked a treat.. Slept thru until 7am only woke cos it was so windy his door blew open this morning! He stirred twice during night but went back to sleep with dummy no dramas!

Yay! Only bummer is FOTY is looking after him all Easter so I can have a break but I will pay dearly for it... Sure enough only one nap today becos foty cant time the naps but insists he knows everything and insists he parent HIS WAY...

at least it was 1.5hrs because of the good night last night but he will slowly lose sleep over next 4days andi will pick up the pieces next week (fighting naps again).. DH FOTY thinks he is fantastic cos he slept so well today when I know it's because of my putting him to bed early last night... Woteva!

Oh yeah. Btw FOTY told me this morning that me and my mum were turning him into a fussy baby.... Say no more.... Lots of support around here! NOT!

Natmu Fri 29-Mar-13 23:44:46

None for me either cabbage. Everyone keeps telling me to leave him to scream. I'm just at the end of my patience/sanity/energy etc. Having a seriously black moment. It just feels like everything is getting worse and worse. I know this will pass all of it but when??? I'm absolutely at breaking point. He just screams at me all day and night. DH is no use whatsoever and he won't go to anyone else as he has bad separation anxiety. WTF am I meant to do?????

CabbageHead Sat 30-Mar-13 11:34:02

Oh natmu I sincerely hope ur day was better than mine! Ur DS obviously has some medical problem otherwise he wldnt be screaming so much, he needs soothing but you can't do it all on your own... Tell anyone who. Will listen and try and get some support of other mothers, neighbours, consellors, whoever you can.. Sometimes help comes from the most unlikely sources and sometimes the people you think you can depend on turn out to be the ones who just want to depend on you!!!

I made emergency call to my Inlaws and sleep centre when DS was 4mths because I was starting to struggle with him. The clinical nurse took one look at DS and stated he was high needs. I didn't even know wot the term meant back then but I was already having my suspicions. He is justo much more sensitive than other babies and has taken ages and ages to develop and kind of self regulation. It will get better for u becos it has for me, but in meantime u do have to survive it. U need support u cannot do this on ur own trust me. U need someone to believe in you so ur self worth doesn't get eroded like mine has. Lucky I hav been thru a lot of grief in life so I am very emotionally strong.

I've had such a long time period of really difficult day naps prob 6hard weeks of hard slog everyday.. And th usual night wakings teething and milestones... This is all hard but doubly hard when u have a DH in TOTAL DENIAL and completely desperate to see DS because he needs his ego stroking because he is so insecure..

I am so angry despondent and now I really am depressed for the first time in my life because I'm also at the end of my tether... A gal can only take so much.
I have been thinking of separating for a long long long time and the time is getting nearer and nearer. It's very much a damned if u don't damned if u do situation. My middle stepdaughter had a go at me this morning and also said the old, but my daddy has raised 3 kids listen to him he knows wot he is talking about (I could tell you a million stories about his useless parenting skills) don't get me wrong he is a good father, one of the best, but he is a crap mother and he wants full control of being a crap mother because apparently I am being a stressed out crap mother who doesnt know a thing because I have no experience because I am a first time mother..

Wot no one seems to get is when u r the mother you r biologically tied to ur baby, u wake when they wake, u feel their pain and discomfort, they look at you and say rescue me mum, you instinctively know stuff that no one else possibly can but I'm being seriously undermined day in day out and I cannot take it anymore.. Have no idea wot to do, go to counsellor I think and talk it thru, they helped me before... I can't change DH but I cannot go on in this state either.

DH,s family is having Easter Gathering tomorrow no way in hell am I going. Why bother if I'm just going to be judged as a neurotic 1st time mother. I'm so sick of having my intelligence insulted and if you have already known me for 9years surely you can trust me and you know me well enough to get I'm a sane person??!

I'm so pissed off and also in a very dark place right now. I'm so grateful for my wonderful friends and mothers who just GET IT and don't judge but instead listen to me, support me and then we have a laugh about it which really helps me get thru each day.

Sorry for the rave but I am at rock bottom I think... And this has been going on for 11mths and beforehand with DH,s own kids and his parenting style so it's not going to go away and I was so stupid and naive to think he would be different with our own child. I have no respect for DH wotsoeva anymore he has been no support at all , I mean he is great practical support within reason but the constant undermining is doing my head in....

Man I could go on for hours and hours suffice to say blah blah blah I am not enjoying my life and am extremely unhappy.

I love my DS and it's for that reason that I think his sleep is so important because I love him. I don't put myself first and think well, I'd like to play with him so we,ll just miss this nap... He,ll get over it... Blah blah sorry for the venting but mad I'm so crazy upset right now.

Natmu Sun 31-Mar-13 06:22:38

Cabbage our situations sound so similar. The only difference is that my step daughters are totally behind me all the way. They keep telling me that they can't believe that I do everything and how little he does. Of course I defend him because he does do a lot practically around the house. He's always cleaning and tidying but I find that it just adds to the feeling of pressure. He's always going on about how our house is such a toss hole and this needs doing or that needs doing and I feel like all his comments are accusing me of not doing enough.

He has never once got up in the night for either of our DS's in the 5 years since DS1 was born. Ironically he has had to look after DS1 tonight because he's been vomiting violently and I just can't physically have them both in bed with me but I know in the morning all I will hear about is what a terrible night he has had. Never mind that I haven't had more than 2 hours sleep in one go since DS2 was born 7 months ago. I just get on with it because it's my job and I frankly wouldn't want anyone else to do it but he seems to need constant sympathy and ego stroking. I'm as sick of it as you are cabbage and for the first time I've been thinking about separation too. I couldn't do it yet for the sake of the kids but it scares me that things are so bad that I'm actually imagining what things would be like on my own.

Do get some counselling cabbage. It really helped me before too. I have depression as well. Hope you have a calm and peaceful Easter Sunday.

CabbageHead Sun 31-Mar-13 12:26:48

natmu thnks you too!

Our situations r very similar indeed! I also have good practical support from DH but lots of harrumphing about how untidy the place is etc! I felt under pressure for a long time now I just don't give a shit, once I worked out that he wasn't coping because it had always been me that kept everything in order and running smoothly and now that I was occupied he hated it cos he is so disorganized.

And for the first 4mths he was REALLY angry that his life had been changed by this little creature, he loved him but resented the fact that DS was encroaching on his self indulgent midlife crisis. He refused to get his computer etc out of our office so we could convert it into a nursery (we had planned to co sleep but the reflux put an end to that!) and basically opposed anything I suggested to try, like whitenoise, darkening room etc etc so I had to argue (with the little energy I had ) for everything it was crazy I mean really crazy. (DH suffers from depression so has the whole denial thing going on.)

I used to be really considerate like you but now I make DH get up all through the night to help out, even tho he is working. I have been doing this for last 6weeks (easy because DS is older than yours), and it's been so good. I realize that DH is the kind of person that you can't explain things to because his defensive insecure nature overrides everything, he can't help it he has really low self esteem, so I have to demonstrate I stead so he Has to experience for himself otherwise he doesn't get it (but insists he does cos he's raised 3 children singlehandedly (ahem I don't think so!)..

So I am getting more sleep and DH has been more understanding because he has been doing the early am wakings which are just the worst as you know..!

So this Easter I decided to let him be mummy for entire time, becos I am so worn out and also becos he keeps insistingn that I'm am not letting him be able to parent at all.... So I have made him look after DS ALL weekend, he has had lots of help cos kids were here and been at family,s for Easter, but DH is absolutely shattered and he still has tomorrow to go!

He refuses to believe that putting DS to bed early if he has missed naps or short naps, helps him sleep better. He thinks that we shld put him to bed later and not worry about how long or short naps are cos we need to live our lives (which is precisely why I do make the effort with naps because otherwise I struggle with fighting overtired DS). Anyway I think by today he finally gets most of it but won't back down becos of ego, but I am loving every minute of his pain.

Yesterday DH told me triumphantly that DS has slept thru entire night without waking once because he only had one nap yesterday and that's where I'm going wrong all the time... Ahem it's not the first time he has slept thru but def a rare occurrence, and ahem he didn't sleep thru the night but woke at 5am.. DH refuses to believe that he sleeps thru the monitor clicking on but I got to prove it to him this morn, as DS woke, but DH still sound asleep... Heh

So today DH been very contrite and asking me for my advice on when to put him to bed etc.. I refused to help, advised him that he had so much experience surely he didn't need my help, he after all has been doing this stuff for years.. HO hum...he asked me all day for help and kept saying oh I want to share the parenting. (that's not wot he said yesterday!).. So today he loked very defeated, slumped in the chair after trying to get DS to nap who was bouncing off the cot walls in an OT frenzy! Was so funny...and he still had to get thru dinner baths and bedtime!

Now DS went to bed at 7.30pm tonight, has already woken up at 9.30pm, then at 9.50pm... Which he never does unless he is sick or very very OT... I said to DH this arvo when he asked me if I thought DS looked wound down enough to nap.. I'm sure you can see that for yourself, and then added, but if he doesn't nap then he is going to sleep right thru the night again anyway isn't he? because isn't that wot u keep ramming down my throat everyday

Honestly natmu had the best day today gloating quietly! Also spent all of yesterday at friends place, just came home to say goodnite to DS and then I went out again. So my advice to you is push back a bit more, make him do more with ds1 so you can relax a teeny bit, and I know it's hard cos ds2 too young yet, but try to get away more often and leave ds1 with him...

On allergies etc do you know about the fedup.com.au website? It has some really good info about allergies, food intolerances, ezcema etc, and lots and lots of articles, letters written by parents that figured out what was wrong with their screaming DC... Amazing success stories... U might find a story there that is similar to your DS situation.

<brings in basket of choccy rabbits and palest pastel colored sugared almonds>

Natmu Mon 01-Apr-13 04:04:32

Stares longingly at choccy rabbits and sugared almonds, sighs and goes back to dunking plain digestives in herbal tea. I'm on a dairy free diet for DS2's CMPA so no Easter eggs for me! Thanks for the tip about the web site. We're waiting for an appointment with the allergy clinic in June. He definitely had a reaction the other day but it's so difficult to tell what caused it. Could be something he ate/something I ate/something in the environment?

DH does do a lot with DS1. He doesn't have much choice because DS1. Is a complete Daddy's boy. grin If he's around DS1 won't even look at me. As I say, he just seems to expect a medal for what he does all the time whereas I just get on with if. He gets his free time every morning to sit down and have his cup of tea and gets to eat all his meals in peace whereas I'm usually eating one handed trying to keep a screaming baby quiet. Then he complains that it's so noisy when we're eating! Then in the next breath he's telling me I'm too soft and I should be leaving him to scream. The thing that winds me up the most though is when DS2 is really going for it, DH sits there with his fingers in his ears. I don't know why it irritates me so much but I just feel like slapping him and saying, ffs man up a bit! He says why should he sit there getting a headache? Most of the time I end up going out of the room with DS2 because I can't stand his petulant reaction.

He's an insomniac so his excuse for not getting up in the night is that if he gets up he won't be able to get back to sleep for hours and that it's much easier for me to go back to sleep. We're even sleeping in separate bedrooms so DS2 doesn't disturb him when he wakes. Despite this I always get a full breakdown of what a terrible night's sleep he's had every morning. I sometimes feel like punching him!

He's got the perfect excuse not to be able to do any more with the baby because he's got to have surgery on his shoulder and it's painful for him to hold him for more than about 2 minutes.

Oh it's good to have a moan, although it does make me feel bad for saying it all. I do love him and he does have some brilliant qualities he just seems to have this selfish streak which is rearing it's ugly head more and more at the moment.

I've got some brilliant friends in RL who are helping me through all this. One in particular has a baby with a very similar temperament. He's a few months older than DS2 so it's comforting to see the progress he's making.

CabbageHead Mon 01-Apr-13 10:17:35

Same here I'm whingeing away because our relationship dynamic is so awful at present but it wasn't always like this and DH has wonderful qualities I just can't see them at the moment because I feel so let down that he won't acknowledge me because of his own insecurity..

Have been researching passive aggressive behavior and it's all very crystal clear to me now what's been happening.. So at least I can understand more now of why he does what he is doing all the time, the denial and not doing things when I ask him to and dismissing my ideas etc. it makes so much sense..

Sitting there with fingers in ears is very very immature and not at all productive way of supporting you or dealing with the screaming... I'd be pissed off too..

I started off never waking DH in morn as he is night owl, then I realized I had to get him used t seeing DS in morning so that I could get DS down earlier at bedtime instead of waiting for DH to come home from work etc.. Ad now he feeds him breakfast mostly so he has no excuse for saying that he is missing out.

Yeh the screaming will get better it's so so hard that age before they. An be independent on top of allergies and strong temperament.. No one can relate to it unless they have experienced it that is for sure. DS didn't scream all the time but a lot of the time but nothing like what you are going thru..

Hope u have a good week!

I've started knitting to keep busy, I'm making a cot blanket as its coming into autumn now (still nice and warm at night about 20'C but will get cooler as months progress). I'm a crap knitter but ts good therapy. A,m also making a cake topper for DS birthday cake soon.. It's been so long since I was able to do anything like that so I feel like I have light at end of tunnel with his age now he is sleeping better at night I,m Getting more sleep so can actually think and stay up later than 7pm!!!!


Natmu Mon 01-Apr-13 13:35:27

You give me hope Cabbage thank you! I'm very jealous of your 20 degrees. It's supposed to be spring here but still minus 2 or 3 at night and max of 0 in the day. Rubbish!

DH seems to be making a bit more effort today. He's made DS1's lunch and been entertaining DS2 quite a bit. I'm gonna see if I can persuade him to take them both out for a walk for a bit this afternoon.

Littlepige Wed 03-Apr-13 02:16:17

Hello- I'm desperate for some support. My lo is 4 months old and I am coming to realise how high needs he is. I got through the first 3 and a half months and when I thought I would die of sleep deprivation he started sleeping for 3 or 4 hours at a time, and not right next to me (then i got mastitis as i was not used to goig so long between feeds!) Over the last few days we have gone back to him waking every hour and I'm so stressed I can't sleep in between. We are due to move to another country in 2 weeks with no support network- I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Please can I have some tea and sympathy?

CabbageHead Thu 04-Apr-13 04:39:39

Hi little pige

Welcome ... I'm typing in between trying to sedate the creature... Having no luck I might add... So hard when they are OT so therefore you can't read their tired cues because they are so tired! Vicious cycle..

Yes at 4mths I was starting to not cope, had to get family to help out and then I got so run down from sleep dep that I ended u p with shingles.. my advice is to try and de stress any way ou can, get as much help as u can ver next 2weeks, it's stressful enough to relocate let alone having no sleep reserve to cope with that and non sleeping bub!

Has bub got medical issues or just high needs? Whereare u moving to?

Can u research their support baby centers so u know where to seek help straight away? Can you org a babysitter, nanny to help out for first few weeks? I had to hire a nanny while is was sick. It was a big lesson in not stressing, learning to sleep and looking after myself.

That age is so so hard because u r still recovering from birth and they are still freaking out about being in the real world, and they are just becoming aware of everything around them too...

Ur DS could be picking up on ur stress if u r majorly stressed out... Can DH help at all? Is this ur first LO?

Sorry too many questions...! Stay on this thread we will help you through your suffering cos we have all been there or are STILL there!!!! U just need to cope with one day at a time to survive... U def cannot do it on ur own tho... Even cooking etc I couldn't do had to ask for family to help cook to take the pressure off...

<brings in big potof steaming chicken soup, piping hot garlic bread and large glass of brandy....> smile

CabbageHead Thu 04-Apr-13 04:41:46

How was ur Easter after all? Did u get any rest? I had a big Barney with DH, but then we had another big family crisis (teenagers!) so that out things into perspective lol! Anyway I made DH look after DS for 4days..

Suffice to say I'm catching up on all the sleep he lost, as DH wld OT outhit down for one nap a day... But DS going fairly well considering.. (except today of courseha ha!)

Natmu Thu 04-Apr-13 06:00:19

Funny, we had a big barny over Easter too! Well actually not DH and I but DH and MIL's husband. All in front of the kids blush. MIL is spitting chips over it but hasn't been able to get DH on his own to tear him off a strip so fall out still to come!

Personally my Easter was ok (apart from being surrounded by people eating chocolate grin). DS2 seems to have turned a bit of a corner with his eating. He no longer seems quite so stressed with the whole process because I'm doing alternate solids then milk so he's not starving when it comes to solids time. Last night he scoffed down lamb meatballs with risotto! I was so happy!! Then he slept from 8 until 2 am. Yippee! I think that's the longest he's ever slept.

We're going swimming today with both boys for the first time.

Welcome Littlepige. Do come back and tell us about your LO. Your situation sounds very stressful.

CabbageHead Thu 04-Apr-13 12:07:56

Hey natmu oh glad u had a good Easter. Sorry about my post often not making sense it's the stupid word prompt on my iPad, drives me insane! I type way to fast too which doesn't help grin.

That's interesting DS sleep improved, wonder if he has been starving this whole time?! I try and give DS lot of protein and carbs and hav been trying not so much fruit as think the fructose give shim it sugar high. He is hard to feed mostof the time simply because he is always tired, soo have to have things to distract him while he eats.

He had a lot of tantrums today, funny! He has been pushing and dragging our office chair on wheels around the entire house. He is so excited about it! And today he took abiut 6steps behind it whilst pushing - don't think he even realized. So no doubt walking milestone will start keeping him awake at night... Cor effing blimey just what I need!

DS loves swimming, he has no fear wotsoeva, loves to dunk is head crazy boy! That's great cos swimming is the best thing for wearing them out. I wld take DS everyday if I could!

Poor DS I think I fed him too many peas (he likes to eat the, one by one) beans and egg yolk today he was farting like a trooper at bedtime! Probably had such a sore belly... Bad mummy!!

Natmu Thu 04-Apr-13 18:23:48

Yes well I think you're right about him being hungry but most of the time I just can't persuade him to eat that much. Tonight for example he fell asleep in the sling before dinner and then woke up in a foul mood. Had about two mouthfuls of chicken and peppers then screamed the place down until I gave in and provided the boob. I'm going to try stopping him halfway through and see if I can persuade him with the chicken again. God it's so frustrating. I should not have been hoping for a repeat of last night. Fatal.

CabbageHead Fri 05-Apr-13 01:16:37

How old is ur ds again? How did u go with the stopping halfway? I know nothing EVER works the same two days in a row with high needs babies.. That's the hardest thing for other people to understand I think, they can't understand why u don't have them in a simple routine by now, if only they knew the effort I went to to have the basic routine we have!

Yes I've been so lucky that DS is such a greedy porky pig that he never ha da problem with food (or boob!) so our transition to solids was easy.

In saying that I do hav to distract him constantly becos he gets bored so whenhe gets fidgety and silly I give him something to amuse him, container where he can put lid on etc while I feed him (his mouth opens automatically when anything like spoon goes near it as long as his not focused on it otherwise he wants to do everything his way!!)

Now he wants to feed himself so I really hav to distract him to get enough food into him, but while I'm preparing his food, he gets finger food to eat himself, peas, bread, toast, sliced fruit, blue worries etc.. But then I take that food away when I need to feed him main meals otherwise I will be there all day while he refuses the spoon because he only wants to eat the food that he can control himself. Headstrong!!!!

He is cranky today lots of drooling so teeth I guess, and def on his way to walking but he is frustrating himself all the time.

Natmu Fri 05-Apr-13 06:48:10

They get so grumpy when they are about to achieve something new don't they? Combined with teeth I hope you're not in for a terrible day/night.

He's been fine with stopping halfway through. He has one boob then some food then topped up with more milk if he needs it. Tbh I'm trying to separate milk and solid feeds altogether because I feel he eats more food if he's not thinking about milk at all. If I give him food halfway between two milk feeds it seems to work loads better.

Well all my fears about tonight have been unfounded. He has just had the best sleep he's ever had in his life!!! He slept 8-2.20. Woke for milk then slept through again until 6am. I literally can't believe it!!

You're right about the routine thing. Everyone including DH just thinks that it's my poor parenting which means he's not in a set routine. I can't seem to get through to them and explain how unpredictable he is and how what works one day doesn't work the next. Having said that he is slowly getting better. The main worry at the moment is that he DOES NOT like MIL. He screams with what sounds like fear when she has him. unfortunately she is our main babysitter and help for when I go back to work. DH keeps on at me to just leave him with her and let him scream but I just can't bring myself to do it. He sounds so frightened. They all say oh it's crocodile tears but I know it's not. He's only 7 months ffs.

Hope you have a peaceful night cabbage.

Littlepige Fri 05-Apr-13 10:11:18

Thanks cabbage and natmu
It's so useful to hear about how other people are managing with their babies. I'm sure a great deal of getting through is surrounding yourself with people who understand a bit. My lo is the love of my life but when I'm really sleep deprived I have really dark days when I feel so frustrated with him- its the whole combination isn't it? No sleep, don't want to go out in the car as he gets so distressed, can't go for a walk with him in a buggy, no one else can soothe him for me to have a bit if a nap, he will only sleep in the sling during the day so I can't sleep when he sleeps etc etc etc. he is a very sensitive baby and I'm sure he's picking up on moving stress- I keep on telling myself that this sort of sensitivity will make him a lovely grown up! We are moving to California for 6 months for DHs job. At least I will be sleep deprived and warm?
cabbage how old is your lo?
natmu I think you are right- leaving him to cry feels terrible- so stressful if your MIL is your main respite!

CabbageHead Fri 05-Apr-13 13:10:20

Hi natmu yes been a bad day and night so far, 30min nap only today and put him to bed early and now woekn twice and last waking has been fighting for 2hrs...

He is super cranky and clingy so presume its either milestone walking as he did lots of walking on his knees behind our office chair today, or he is sick or has headache although I gave him panadol befor e bed cos I thought his drooling was excessive today too.. Could have sore ears who knows but think its the walking cos it was like this with standing... Three weeks of torture... No sleep...

Does MIL wear dstrong perfume? Just wondering if that was the reason he doesn't like her, or is it just because u r no 1 to him? He is just starting that massive Sep Anxiety stage I,ll bet. DS was really bad from 8tmhs until now with SA. Just staring to get better with it now.

littlepige yes those long dark days I know EXACTLY how u feel. Some days I am in tears with the relentlessness of an all day struggle. And some days are too many days and too few easy days. I had a relatively easy day yesterday so I should have known t was in preparation for today!!!!

Ha ha yes sunny days actualy do make a difference. DS is nearly 1yr old in a few weeks!!! He is still a nightmare to settle nearly every day but he has improved so much each month in terms of being able to self regulate his emotions and ability to not be so overstimulated etc. in saying that he is totally out of control today !!!

Do u guys know about the wonder weeks? I wish I had known about it from the start so I coud have prepared myself!!!!

I'm still awake it's 11pm and I haven't had a break all day until now, but I can't even go to toilet brush my teeth as toilet and bathroom are next to DS room and DH is still in there tryin to settle him!!!!!! Cor effing blimey!

Lucky he is cute or else I wouldve sold him on eBay by now!!!!!

Natmu Fri 05-Apr-13 23:46:41

Lol cabbage! I can't tell you how many gtimes I've said that....it's lucky you're cute or you'd have been out the window by now. Typically last night was fab so tonight is turning into a nightmare. I've also got a 2 hour drive to do in the morning. Don't fancy that on 4 hours kip sad.

MXP78 Sun 07-Apr-13 19:27:32

Hi all,

cabbage & Natmu I'm so sorry to hear about all the stresses you are both having. Not only with your LO's but with your OH as well. When you have a high needs bub support is so important and it can be soul destroying when the person you're supposed to be getting it from most, just makes you feel worse sad Especially when you are around your LO 24/7 so you know them so much better than anyone else. I was speaking to my sister the other day and she said "maybe she's like that because she knows the minute she cries you'll pick her up" THEY JUST DON'T GET IT. It's so the other way around. I pick her up all the time because she was born like that and I know what will happen if I don't pick her up! Don't let anyone make you feel like you're not doing an amazing job.

littlepige as most people on here will probably be able to say, your LO sounds exactly like mine at that age. I used to say to my OH, if one more person tells me to sleep when she sleeps, I'm going to punch them in the face!! She would only sleep on me or in the sling. I couldn't just go for a walk or a drive to get out of the house or to get her to sleep as she would cry in the pram and car seat. And like you I got hardly any sleep at night as when she would eventually fall asleep, my anxiety was so bad that I would like just lie there waiting to hear her start to cry again an hour later. My OH booked an appt for me at the GP as he thought I was getting PND. The Dr pretty much ordered him to do all the night wakings so I could get some sleep. That seemed to work for me as if I knew I didn't have to get up when she cried next time, I would relax a little and be able to get some sleep. Does your OH help at night? If it makes you feel any better, my DD now sleeps in her cot for daytime and nighttime sleeps. You will get there xx

CabbageHead Mon 08-Apr-13 00:54:52

Hi mxp thanks for the supportive words, should destroying isndef a great description.. Ts bad enough dealing with HN bub let alone no understanding from anyone thankfully all my friends do GET IT otherwise I wld be in an asylum by now!!!!

I just have to make DH deal with the consequences of his actions, (not getting DS into naps or bed early enough )so now I make him get up.. Last night he came to me really grumpy at 4am as had been trying to get DS back to sleep after an hour...

Which was his fault as he faffed around so much yesty morning that he missed DS nap time and he ended up fighting his arvo nap and missing it cos his am one ended up being too late, then too short cos it was then lunch time. So at least I am getting bit more sleep as DH expense but he has tortured me for an entire year so I figure bit of payback is ok lol!

Yeh sleep when they sleep... Great advice, what happens if they don't actually sleep then...?! When do u actually rest... THAT'S wot people don't get that ur haven't actually had a break ALL day, scoff dinner, snack thru out the day n anything u can find, never get to relax...then deal with. The night as well..

It's def helpful getting DH to do more night wakings, and easier now that I've mostly night weaned..

We've had 2crap nights too many loooong night wakings, and one good night in between, day naps are crap.. But ts developmental, so I can look at the bright side at least and know its because he is on cusp on walking independently so I feel like I'm at least at the end of a very nightmarish year.. I'm sure nothing will change overnight but I'm so so glad he is older now I never want to go thru that torture again!!! So glad I'm too old to have another so don't have to be anguished over deciding to have another bub!

Jumped into DS cot at 4am, snuggled him to go back to sleep.. So nice snuggling against his soft head, as heis never still enough to do thatduring day! So comfy in cot but hard to sleep with him slurping on that damn dummy all morning Cor blimey!

Natmu Mon 08-Apr-13 04:46:33

Thanks MXP. I try and remember how far we've come already and what he was like as a newborn to help myself realise that we are making progress. I guess the progress is so minutely slow that it's hard to see it day to day.

Thanks for supportive words everyone.

ticklemyboobsofsteel Mon 08-Apr-13 14:01:58

<peeks in> <waves>

Hello all. Sorry there are such tough times being experienced on so many levels sad Sending you all hugs and hoping things look a bit more positive for you soon.

We've just moved to Chichester, and are almost settled in now. DS's sleep has gone a bit backwards (but it would do, I guess, as it's all so new for him and there's a fair bit of noise in the flat in the evening, which he's not used to) but he did much better last night. I feel shattered though, DH and I did all the heavy lifting ourselves... next time, we are paying people to do it for us! It nearly killed me.

It's sooo lovely here though, so peaceful (not counting the door-banging herd of elephants that live upstairs!) and clean. We're hoping - finances permitting - to buy somewhere next year, as I hate renting - but it was a necessary evil to enable us to get here so I can get past it for now...!

Anyhoo, take care ladies.

<yawns, rubs eyes, tries to concentrate on work - fails miserably>

Natmu Mon 08-Apr-13 19:43:55

Tickle! Nice to see you!

Glad to hear the move went well. I'm very jealous of your peace and calm. We have a five year plan to move out from the big smoke to the country. Can't come soon enough.

Hope DS settles down for you quickly.

CabbageHead Tue 09-Apr-13 10:45:08

Hey all, hey tickle Chichester is gorgeous place, I have a friend that lives there, few generations I think, such a nice place... Enjoy! And take care of yourself post relocation recovery!!!! DS should sleep well as its quiet (once u are in ur own home!) my DS slept best time of his life when we stayed with friend out in sticks (country) because it was so so quiet amazing. The difference it made to him...

Hey GUESS WHAT EVERYONE???......!!!!!


DS STTN last night!!!?..'!!!M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!! YES IT'S TRUE!!!!!!!!

That's 3times in his nearly 12 month life!!!!! (all other bubs in my mothers group have been STTN from about 5 mths ... HO hum! WotEVA!!!!!

Doncha love love love learning. To walk... So much activity wearing them out... I have had 2nights of 6hours of sleep... Unblinking real...!!! I feel like a new person... So funny cos all this time I kept thinking I must take more vitamins, I constantly feel worn out... Today loads of energy, can't believe what a difference sleep makes to ur energy levels. (let alone cognitive thinking!!!)

Let's not get too excited... We did also have 2days this week of nightmarish loooooong night wakings... BUT STTN... I mean STTN.....!!!!

Sorry not bragging just in shock and awe at my creature....

Hope we all have a good night tonight... Even a half decent night is acceptable!

<brings in ginger gems with sparkly sticky jam centres and so soft pikelets with loads of cream and jam>

CabbageHead Wed 10-Apr-13 12:54:28

Ha ha ha, I had a crap sleep last night, had too much dairy spent half the night coughing... And spent at least 2.5hrs this arvo getting DS to nap... So... Very...annoying... Ended up refusing to give in and had to rock the little tyke to sleep!

Hope u all have a good day smile

Natmu Thu 11-Apr-13 03:24:01

Why is it that life always feels the need to redress the balance like that? You get a good night then SOMEONE has to pull the rug from under your feet again. I hope you get back to STTN quickly!

Things all the same as usual here. Rubbish sleep. Pressure from DH to start sleep training. Ho hum!

Nightmoves Wed 17-Apr-13 01:18:00

<sneaks in red-faced about appalling absence from MN forums>

Hello all! So glad youre all still here. Just checking in. DS sleep STILL rubbish and now we are 12m. He had been building up to some longer stretches but this week it's either teething or sleep regression as he is up all the bloody time. DH on a course this week and getting pelters like its all my fault. Ditto with the sleep training pressure. Am starting to consider it. Took wing mirror off car the other week, am asking myself if lack if sleep might have played a part???

CabbageHead Wed 17-Apr-13 13:08:19

Ha ha * nightmoves* I very nearly ran over a pedestrian at a crossing after mothers group once! DS was screaming in the backseat and I mistook the green walk sign sign for a green light for me... Oops... Lucky I was just outside the hospital if I had flattened him... Poor bloke gave him such a fright! Sleep dep is def disastrous...

My DS is 1yr tomorrow and is just starting to STTN mostly (over the last fortnight!) it's only taken 12mths of torture! Day naps are still a long drawn out battle every single day. But I am not complaining, finally catching up on sleep. I just try and wear him out with all the walking as much as possible.

The transition to one nap is hideous, still trying for 2each day as he needs it cannot survive on 1.20 min sleep per day, too cranky and then night waking..still can't sleep anywhere but at home.. Such is life..

I gave up on sleep training.. have been successful in past and know DS can go to sleep by himself but he cannot wind himself down still, so it's either shush, pat to sleep, at present even have to rock him during day to get him down, but that's because oif transition, but if I leave him in room to self settle he just jumps up and winds himself and wakes himself more so it's very tricky this phase. I just do woteva it takes and hope he will settle down once the novelty of walking wears off... hmm

I cannot believe I have just survived a whole effing year of this shite! He better be a good teenager or else!!! There is no way in hell anyone else could possibly understand what we have to go thru each day. I think it's a total miracle. Flowers and champers for us all!!!!! wine flowers

absentmindeddooooodles Tue 23-Apr-13 13:53:43

Just wondering if I could come and have a chat???:-) not so sure I'm in the right place as ds is 2 now, but from skimming through this he is definitely a hn baby!! Now he's older sleep is really improving but good god the day times are definitely worse! Don't get me wrong, he is the loveliest little boy (sometimes) but I literally cannot take him anywhere without a massive scene or some kind of issue verging on world war 3 proportions!! He WILL NOT stay still or do as he's told or co-operate in any way. I must be holding him at all times, day and night, and neither walking nor the pram is at all acceptable in his eyes! I don't really know how to explain the extent if it all. What I've written sounds to me like normal toddler behaviour, but honestly every other parent/family member/passer by just gives me either the pity look and days wow you've got your hands full there, or does the disapproving you obviously cannot discipline your child thing. Just wondering if anyone else has any experience of anything like this. Am a stay at home single mum, so it's really bloody exhausting tbh! I thought he wa displaying some ADHD traits, but hv says he's just a very hn child and will be hard work for a few years. Please come hold my hand!!!

Natmu Wed 24-Apr-13 00:32:07

Welcome absentminded. You certainly are in the right place. Hand holding aplenty here. You sound like you're going through a really tough time. I think most people's LO's on here are a bit younger than your DS but I'm sure all the same rules apply.

Have you had a look at Sears and Sears The Fussy Baby Book? It's got some really good tips for dealing with HN children and also how to discipline older ones. I haven't read that section fully yet but it looks like it's going to be useful when DS gets older. From what I've read distraction is a key player in all this. I'm certainly learning that we can't do much with DS without numerous toys etc to hand.

Stick around and I'm sure someone will have some bright ideas. Good luck.

absentmindeddooooodles Wed 24-Apr-13 13:17:13

Hi Natmu. Thank you for the reply. I haven't had a look at the book, so may have to go get myself a copy! Yes distraction plays a huge part in our day! I literally have to have a bag of toys pens paper and snacks to hand regardless of the situation! I swear ds is going to turn in to a cherry tomato if I distract him with many more. Haha. Would love some ideas on discipline if anyone has any? The naughty step seems to be working (sometimes ) but other than that it ranges between me trying to explain to him, and ask him nicely not to do said thing again, to ignoring him, or if its a particularly awful day, trying for hours tongetna result, and ending up shouting at him. These situations usually end up with me being the one in tears while ye carries on causing whatever havoc he thinks is hilarious at the time. The joys eh?!

CabbageHead Sat 27-Apr-13 12:48:15

Hi everyone, how r u all going? * absent* I just read some great stuff yesterday about HN toddlers... Didn't save the links sorry, but mostly everyone is saying get the 'raising your spirited child' book, seems to be the most effective.. Also have a look at fedup.com.au and read some of the parents comments, amazing what food additives and preservatives are doing to our kids behavior.... Hopefully something with those might help you...

DS has just turned 1, had his party today... He is STTN mostly now never thought it would happen, waking a bit hungry I think ur mostly exhausted from walking.. Day naps are a fight always he just can't or won't wind down... I have been rocking him to wind him down it's just faster than wasting an hour of my time shushing patting etc... So tiring either way... Once he can handle one nap it won't be so bad, my body aches everyday!

Still the upside for you mums with younger ones, is the settled nights and DS has become much more affectionate of late, really snugly with us, and much more social... Just want to give u hope! Still a nightmare at every mealtime, I have a box of distractions to get thru every meal! As well as many on the changeable. They are just such vocal and determined little creatures!

My SIL said today, well he went down easy for his nap... (while I gritted my teeth and tried not to snap 'yes that's Because I bloody rocked him in sedation for 20 mins and he was so tired becos he only had one nap today so I will pay for it for the next fortnight'!!!! Why bother there is No way she gets it...

Type A personalities is what the sleep nurse told me HN bubs are... Great lol!

Well the cake was lovely, bought one. As no time to make, but i decorated it in grass and flowers with DS crawling looking for ants... Was v cute and tasty! We had a nice day in our backyard with friends and family.

stargirl1701 Fri 03-May-13 20:37:46

Hello folks. Update. All is well! grin We saw the paediatrician and she seems to have sorted out DD's meds - both for the silent reflux & eczema. Within 48 hours, DD was sleeping with just one wakening overnight! That has now disappeared too and she is sleeping through from 7.30pm till 6.30am. She will go down for naps but the length is still variable.

Thank you all so much for your support. I think I might have ended up with PND without the support I got on Mumsnet.

dribbledon Sat 04-May-13 14:25:38


Starting to think DS & I meet the criteria for joining this thread...was in fact pointed out by some other mumsnetters when I posted on the sleep forum yesterday. Before then, had not heard of HN babies.

DS is 11 weeks & from on the day he was born the midwives commented that he would be 'hard work' and asked if I had a sling as I would need it! I had forgotten this TBH until recently. He is a complete nightmare to settle. He fights sleep with ferocious intensity, getting over tired and cranky. The only place he will reliably nap is on me in the sling, but at 15lb I'm not sure how long I can carry that on for. He hates the buggy and the car. Today I tried an alternative to his nap in the sling. So I spent an hour trying to get him to sleep on me, and then lying on the bed next to me. He is EBF and refuses a dummy but will suck on my little finger, so we tried that. After an hour he was just screaming so I gave up. We played for a bit, then he fed and was then yawning so we went out in the car and he screamed do much he was sick. We came home and he fed again, this time to sleep. Arms were floppy so I very slowly transferred him onto bed next to me and eyes ping open and he starts screaming. Starting to worry about what this spells for bedtime, I put him in the sling with White noise and after 30 minutes rocking he is finally the a-word (I don't want to jinx it!)

He similarly takes ages to settle at bedtime-over 2hours at least. He has recently reduced waking from every 2 hours to 3, but is really hard to settle in the second half of the night and the other night stayed awake from 3am til 8am. I sometimes co-sleep but do worry about it and get little sleep myself when I do.

In the daytime he can be engaging and delightful, and seems ahead of his milestones but hates being held by anyone other than me. He manages about 5-10 mins with DH. He feeds frequently in the daytime but seems sensitive to any noise and will stop feeding if I talk. It's like we both have to focus 100% on the task in hand. He won't take a bottle of expressed milk-not that I have the time to express. We have stopped going to groups as he screams and I end up forcing back tears til we're out the door when I hear other mums describe how their LOs have slept through from 4 weeks. I have stopped asking other people where and how their baby naps as they look at me like I'm crazy. He is happiest at home, with me, all day but it's so draining with little night sleep (not the worst on here though, I know) I feel I should be out, doing more by now and have blamed myself for not coping but am starting to think he is HN.

Sorry for such a long rant. Just sometimes feel I can't take much more, but then immediately feel guilty as he is beautiful and healthy and so many of my friends have infertilty problems & we are so lucky to have him. I have to go back to work at the end of August and have no clue how I will do this. Family members are already saying that no childminder will have him, and I am also starting to feel that I wouldn't want a childminder to have him as they may not understand him. But then I feel bad labelling him in this way! I would love to just have even 20 minutes where he is asleep during the day and I am not having to invest huge amounts of energy into keeping him that way. Can anyone help ?! Many thanks x

dribbledon Sat 04-May-13 14:32:11


Starting to think DS & I meet the criteria for joining this thread...was in fact pointed out by some other mumsnetters when I posted on the sleep forum yesterday. Before then, had not heard of HN babies.

DS is 11 weeks & from on the day he was born the midwives commented that he would be 'hard work' and asked if I had a sling as I would need it! I had forgotten this TBH until recently. He is a complete nightmare to settle. He fights sleep with ferocious intensity, getting over tired and cranky. The only place he will reliably nap is on me in the sling, but at 15lb I'm not sure how long I can carry that on for. He hates the buggy and the car. Today I tried an alternative to his nap in the sling. So I spent an hour trying to get him to sleep on me, and then lying on the bed next to me. He is EBF and refuses a dummy but will suck on my little finger, so we tried that. After an hour he was just screaming so I gave up. We played for a bit, then he fed and was then yawning so we went out in the car and he screamed do much he was sick. We came home and he fed again, this time to sleep. Arms were floppy so I very slowly transferred him onto bed next to me and eyes ping open and he starts screaming. Starting to worry about what this spells for bedtime, I put him in the sling with White noise and after 30 minutes rocking he is finally the a-word (I don't want to jinx it!)

He similarly takes ages to settle at bedtime-over 2hours at least. He has recently reduced waking from every 2 hours to 3, but is really hard to settle in the second half of the night and the other night stayed awake from 3am til 8am. I sometimes co-sleep but do worry about it and get little sleep myself when I do.

In the daytime he can be engaging and delightful, and seems ahead of his milestones but hates being held by anyone other than me. He manages about 5-10 mins with DH. He feeds frequently in the daytime but seems sensitive to any noise and will stop feeding if I talk. It's like we both have to focus 100% on the task in hand. He won't take a bottle of expressed milk-not that I have the time to express. We have stopped going to groups as he screams and I end up forcing back tears til we're out the door when I hear other mums describe how their LOs have slept through from 4 weeks. I have stopped asking other people where and how their baby naps as they look at me like I'm crazy. He is happiest at home, with me, all day but it's so draining with little night sleep (not the worst on here though, I know) I feel I should be out, doing more by now and have blamed myself for not coping but am starting to think he is HN.

Sorry for such a long rant. Just sometimes feel I can't take much more, but then immediately feel guilty as he is beautiful and healthy and so many of my friends have infertilty problems & we are so lucky to have him. I have to go back to work at the end of August and have no clue how I will do this. Family members are already saying that no childminder will have him, and I am also starting to feel that I wouldn't want a childminder to have him as they may not understand him. But then I feel bad labelling him in this way! I would love to just have even 20 minutes where he is asleep during the day and I am not having to invest huge amounts of energy into keeping him that way. Can anyone help ?! Many thanks x

CabbageHead Mon 06-May-13 01:25:39

Firstly stargirl I'm so so damn excited for u!!!!yay!!! After all that ur poor bub is finally sorted... All the screaming and discomfort was down to medical reasons and it shits me so much that it took so long for your appointments to come up, so your family and poor bub suffered so much in meantime! Absolutely ridiculous! Anyway I'm so glad it's all good! Enjoy!

dribbledon u r def in the right place, come and tell us all about it anytime as we have ALL been there and NOONE can really understand wot u r talking about unless they have had a similar experience. Totally get everything u have posted about, been there...

Ur DS is very young, so that first 3mths is hideous torture... I don't even remember it it was so traumatic.

Main things is try and get DS sleep as much as possible as OT HN bubs are so so so difficult to settle. He is prob still in colic stage too, so just do whatever u can to get him to sleep. We played white noise REALLY loud... Experiment with diff ones, happiest. Baby on the block worked for me, the awful womb music calmed him enough to focus on me shushing patting him in my arms then...

Def get him checked out for reflux or silent reflux if u suspect it is possibly a problem.. (see RISA reflux website).. Or could be reacting to dairy via ur breastmilk?

Get a better sling... I had a wrap one, once he got too heavy I got a manduca carrier (or ergo) much better ergonomic ally, better weight distribution on ur hips not ur shoulders, and can be worn, side, front, back and up to toddlers.. Really worth the money.. I figured out too late that if I walked DS before bedtime in sling was so much easier to get him settled for bed...Also had to move bath time forward, none of this, put baby in bath to relax them...Nuh uh!!! Too exciting in bathtub!

I couldn't do naps in buggy or car So rocked and let him sleep upright on me while I very carefully lowered myself into chair, every time he wld wake stir I would jump up again until he fell asleep again ridiculous stuff! In hindsight I really wish I bought a mechanical swing, because lotsof the mothers in my m group did and I really think it helped bubs transition to cots and get off their mummies, give mummy a break, and most importantly break the OT cycle!

Yeh the rock til asleep then slowly transfer only works until a certain stage then they r just too aware of what u r doing, so try another method as this one won't work foreva, same as feeding to sleep wont work either they just get too clued up!

We had to and still have to feed in quiet dark room otherwise it's too distracting.. Don't feel bad about not going to groups u just need to do woteva u can to survive yourself, people put u under so much pressure to do groups and they do make u feel so much better but I worked out not to compromise on DS nap times so just missed a lot of groups or came later or before and didn't stay that long... Everyone understood I had the difficult one and were really good..

Even now DS is 1 yr old and I'm still trapped at home at nap times ur I wld rather that than end up with him awake at night unable to go back to sleep because he is too OT from day before ( such as his 3am waking this morn) back later DS awake early grrrrr

dribbledon Mon 06-May-13 09:41:04

Thank you so much. It really helps to hear from someone who's been there. I will definitely look at other slings. We have the baby Bjorn miracle carrier but it's a bit awkward as his legs are so long they almost reach my knees and this can wake him up when I go upstairs!

He def gets over tired in the evening and is a nightmare to get to bed when he is. I always thought bedtime would be this cosy, relaxing time and it's just a battle. Everyone keeps saying how it will get easier but...! I do his bath about 6 & then he's usually asleep by 8. My mum thinks I should bring bedtime back a bit to try and stop his current 4am-I'm-ready-to-play habit but I have thought about doing bath earlier so that he settles quickly. 2 hours of screaming-feeding-screaming in the dark with Ewan the musical sheep for company is quite depressing in this lovely weather!

I'm interested in what you say about being over-tired causing early waking. I think this may be the case with my DS. Well meaning friends have said not to worry if he doesn't sleep much in the day ad he'll sleep better at night, but the opposite seems true for him.

I will also look at the reflux website. It's something I had wondered about as when he wakes at 3-4am he grunts and thrashes around & doesn't seem to be wind. That said, the last few nights I've co-slept with him and he's dropped off almost straight away. Doesn't even want my finger to suck (why oh why won't you take a dummy or suck your thumb?!) which makes me think he isn't in physical discomfort. DH says I analyse everything too much

CabbageHead Mon 06-May-13 11:36:17

Ha ha there could possibly be a link between High needs bubs and analytical mummies! It's just that u r consumed by the necessity of settling ur LO so try and think of every possible solution that's all... I have been accused of that and being controlling etc.. But I know I simply want to rest and want DS to rest as well!

I had a sling like baby born carrier at first, they are horrible to wear all weight on ur shoulders and back, and they are ergo incorrect for bubs cos their legs shouldn't dangle down like that put all their weight in crotch area bad for hips etc.. U might find a cheap one on eBay..

Yeh as I speak da is hyped up cos daddy took him for a walk to wind him down but he ALWAYS goes too long so now DS has his second wind and won't go down til after 9pm but will wake early still and ver 24hr period he loses more and more sleep until he is waking up all nite again, yawning but unable to get back to sleep. Drives me crazy when I know it's preventable but my OH has time management issues to the extreme!sad

I wld def try bringing bedtime forward, what time is his last nap? DS has always gone down between 6and 7pm.. Normally he is 7 to 7 sleeper if he is all good and not OT which is hardly EVER!!!! If I think he has had crap naps I will try and put him down earlier, makes such a difference.

Gotta check my omelet I'll be back.. smile

CabbageHead Mon 06-May-13 12:33:30

He could just need u being there as reassurance, but if he screams in car/buggy he either doesn't like being confined or could have reflux, tummy issues as that position squishes their oesophagus, belly makes it really uncomfortable if they have this problem.

Re bedtime, I found with DS that it wasn't so much being OT, that was an issue but DEF overstimulated to the max.. He just couldn't handle much stimulation, I ended up turning off sound (tv or music) even during the day cos t wld make him fussy... (I too had visions of peaceful happy baby listening calmly to classical music...ha ha ha) even complex classical music irritates him. We have a creative household and so visually I know this has been an issue for him as we have lotsof junk stuff on display, so I think he was very overwhelmed by end of day..

Even now he still gets very overstimulated easily, because he takes much more in than the average baby it's like it has nowhere to go.. Then he can't calm down... Kind of like when u go shopping all day then go norm and the lights action is still in your head.. So I have learnt to let him play for a while, then take him outside or read or something like that to quiet him down in intervals then play again...etc.. It gets hard when family etc want to play with him cos they are totally oblivious to it.. But he will always signal to me that he has had enough and I have to be the 'control freak' and take him out of that situation.

The fussy baby book was def a help, and dr sears website of course and troublesome tots website is good too.. Found that one recently..

Ha ha DS used to spit his dummy out as far across the room as possible, it wld be bouncing off the walls, little tyke.. Now he has become VERY attached to it all of a sudden Hrumph! Typical!

Is ur DS wrapped? That helped so much wrapping arms by side as he wld escape otherwise.. I had him wrapped for a long time, but then he didn't learn to roll for a long time so I was lucky.. Have u tried putting him in cot on side and rocking his body, patting his bum? This works for DS now, but it didn't work at the start but maybe I didn't persevere enough.

happydaze77 Fri 10-May-13 17:06:55

Hi, I'm sorry this post is so long but I just need to talk to someone. I hope you don't mind me joining you. I'm currently at my wits end with my 6 month old dd.

She's always been a high needs baby, right from the start. She breastfed almost constantly for many weeks - so much so that whenever anybody came to visit I was stuck feeding them in front of them and nobody got to hold/cuddle her, even dh. We did try but she would literally go purple and scream. Looking back it was probably a lot of comfort suckling, rather than feeding, as she was quite a windy and refluxy baby. The witching hours were particularly hard -I used to joke (back when I still had a sense of humour) that I thought babies woke you up at 4am, not kept you up until 4am!?

Anyway, that's in the past now (thankfully), but overall I feel like things are getting harder, not easier. She has never been a good sleeper but she started really fighting sleep at around 6-8 weeks and we had to resort to walking her in the pram 4 times a day - sometimes walking for two hours just to get a measly half hour nap out of her. I lost all my pregnancy weight and then some - which was great at first but I am now bordering on underweight. Now she has outgrown the pram, doesn't nap in her pushchair, and still fights naps at home as much as ever. We have tried everything - swings, white noise, blackout blinds, lightshows etc etc, and I think we've read every sleepsite/high needs baby site too.

All my antenatal buddies have babies that just nod off as and when, so they can spend the afternoon hanging out together having coffee, or going to baby groups, while I have to make up more and more excuses each time they invite me. I have tried to go out with her, really I have, but as dd is only happy being awake for a couple of hours, our window of opportunity to get there/be there/get back is just too short. Add to that the fact that she will now only breastfeed well at home as she is so distractible, the introduction of solids 2-3 times per day, and the time taken to settle her for a nap, and that window quickly shrinks to nothing. Also, she isn't the type of baby to sit happily on your lap or in the pushchair, while out. Last time I met my fellow new mums, they all ordered and ate their food while I stood jigging my dd on my hip, looking on hungrily while they ate. I felt like everyone in there was staring at me as I was stood up with dd. I'm so bored and lonely stuck at home all day. I have thought about inviting them over to mine but I am so ashamed of how difficult a baby she is. I feel like it reflects badly on me as a mother. Also, my house is a mess as I cannot even find time to shower or cook a meal, let alone clean the bathroom!

My husband has been very supportive but I don't think anyone appreciates how unhappy I really am. I love dd to bits but some days my feelings towards her consist or either resenting her, or feeling desperately sorry for her (it's not her fault after all). I just wish I had a normal baby. I can't even take a break and let someone else look after her as she still breast feeds every couple of hours and nobody other than me can settle her for a nap - the longest I have ever left her for is about 90 minutes when I got a (much needed!) hair cut. I've tried espressing but haven't had much luck - especially as dd feeds so often there is very little opportunity to use the pump, and when I have it has left her short. I've even considered getting up in the night to do it but I am soooo tired I can't face that. DH and I have been invited to a wedding in 4 weeks time and there is simply no way we can go, which is depressing. Other people seem to be able to get out and about, with or without their baby but I seem capable of neither.

At my lowest points I have even considered suicide - I have a goodbye letter already written on my pc. I don't think I ever would though, as I love my dh and dd too much, but it scares me to think that I might.

Sorry this just sounds like a selfish rant. I just don't know what to do anymore. Thanks for listening.

CabbageHead Sat 11-May-13 14:23:55

Oh happydaze I'm so so sorry you have to go thru this... It truly is awful, the sleep deprivation and relentlessness of a HN bub cannot be underestimated. You def have a place on here to rant as much as you wish, I'm still ranting on here and although my DS is now 1yr old, he is still really hard work I am still in years, but the good news is I'm to in that horrible dark hole I was in from 4mths onwards...

i promise it will get better because as your DD is better able to interact and communicate with it, it will balance out a bit (I means will get smiles and fun, not just the relentless settling, etc). It's Mother's Day here tomorrow, and I can clearly remember how ironic I felt last year, finally a mother, something longed for so many years yet so unhappy!

And I heard EVERY SINGLE WORD U SAID...! The bit that resonates the most with me is to being able to do much because of the time it takes to feed, then settle battle HN bubs. My mothers group is great they don't care if I turn up late or leave early, but my inlaws don t getting at all.. Tomorrow for example DS will not have one nap because we are expected for Mother's Day celebrations in inlaws at 1.30pm which suits everyone up me of course! Wot they don't understand is I already battled DS all week due to some missed hours of sleep last week, and always takes about a fortnight to catch up, which I manage to by working my butt off all week only for the weekend or visit to grandparents to come around again, such catch 22..

I also have a messy house I seriously don't give a shit anymore, my sanity and resting became a major priority after I got really rundown and got shingles.. It was a big wake up call to how stressed I was. So now I rest whenever he is actually napping, just lie on my bed with my iPad, or lie n my bed eating snacks.. House remains a mess, DP picks up the slack.. It's only just the last month that I finally have energy because DS has starting mostly STTN so I have just started focusing on the house etc again.. My neighbours are elderly and they r so worried about me all the time they r so sweet . They can totally see the strain on me, and can also see how ugh needs DS is... Shame my inlaws can't but some people,are more perceptive than others I think... It's only now that he is older and more vocal that their starting to see what I'm going thru, as they r struggling to feed etc too ha ha! My friend the nurse used to say to me when he was young, laughingly when I was whingeing about inlaws not understanding, she wild say, ah just u wait until he is older, he is really going to stir the pot, and she was right!

I think hope ur dd will settle down a bit and feel more secure as time goes by.. DS was like this too, really clingy with me, and if we visited etc then the next day was payback with clingy out of control cranky anxious unsettled bub.. So tiring.. He had major sep anxiety until about 9mths then just grew out of it, now he is quite social as long as i haven't upset him with a nap time battle! Super sensitive !

I think there are 2things you need to do for ur sanity and health.. (Speaking from experience ) u need to get really pushy with doctors, do ur own research too (DP bought me an iPad, was a godsend, used it in room in dark while hand on DS for hours for nap time, did lots of my own research but also emailed my friends daily etc kept me sane)..

Sorry I digress, first off, u need to make sure there are no medical issues with DD.. If she had reflux, she could have ear issues and need grommets.. I have a close friend who is an ENT nurse who worked with reflux bubs, and swears most of them had issues with their ears.. Pls see RISA reflux website, good articles there, ESP about Eustachian tube irritation.. Also check for tongue tie, if she is frequently feeding is there a possibility that she is struggling to get the amount she needs? Or food intolerance? Or sensory processing disorder?

Can u offer her a bottle of formula? Maybe try weaning her onto formula and BM mix slowly.. We did bottle and BM and really helped me rest..

Next and more importantly, YOU need to seek help. You are under way too much strain and this has been ongoing and is not going to stop yet. You need to get ur self to GP and referred to counsellor if u r not seeing someone already. This isn't something u should be coping with on ur own. It's not ur fault or ur DD fault, but u do need to care for ur self as your DD is relying on you, no one else can do a better job than you in taking care if her.

But u probably need medication to take the edge off.. I am very anti drugs just because I'm a really natural person, even panadol, I only take one if really necessary.. I just like to be healthy that's all, but I take meds for Post natal anxiety and the reason I did, when I had the shingles and so run down, the GP gave me pain medication, which made me sleepy.

i couldn't believe how sleep deprived I was and how much I really needed that sleep, until after about 2weeks I started REALLY wishing I could take painkillers for ever ha ha! They just helped me go sleep and stay asleep. I realised I didn't want to become addicted to the painkillers, so when the paediatrician tentatively suggested I might think about PND meds I just said yep give them to me right now! Lol! I still get stressed and cry more than usual, but I don't feel guilty or bad about it, my DS is really hard work, I know that I'm am such a strong person and if I am struggling then he is hard work.

Sorry if this was long but you deserve someone to listen to you and reply in length because I can hear how u r at breaking point. I got DS into sleep school, at 4.5mths I was really struggling, so I made emergency call to the inlaws to help out in anyway they could, make food etc, my SIL couldn't understand why I couldn't make dinners etc cos she had an easy baby lol! Sleep school didn't help DS unit did help me by meeting other mothers with 'normal' unsettled babes, we bonded deeply and shared so many stories and laughs. We also got a break because the nurses took over a lot of the settling, and all our food was cooked for us.. That made the ingest difference, just having to not worry about making food for ur self or bub..

Anyway stay posting here with us, you are definitely not alone.. Sending you hugs, warm milk with nutmeg, magnesium and lavender for calming, and a foot massage for relaxation... flowers

CabbageHead Sat 11-May-13 14:31:44

Oh PS the wedding made me laugh, because I refused to take DS anywhere as knew it wld compromise his sleep, but we went to a wedding when he was 8mths bits trial run... Left him with grandparents for evening, but had to leave wedding early, miss the good bits (drunken dancing), to drive back 2hrs to home. GP,s had managed to get him to sleep (god knows how!)

we got home at 12.30am to find DS happily wide awake in cot being entertained by his grandparents, poor grandma sitting on the floor hands thru cot trying to shush pat him, while grandad sang to him quietly while playing his ukulele!!!!!! Was so funny but painful!! He had been awake for 1.5hrs thinking it was a great lark! Little tyke!

CabbageHead Sat 11-May-13 14:38:18

PPS sorry if that post was incomprehensible its teh stupid word prompt on my iPad, if I had time I wld take it off, it's so annoying! Sorry about the gibberish everyone!

Arseface Sat 01-Jun-13 02:28:28

Can I come and join you all?
I have 3month old non id twin boys and while one is a happy, sunny chap the other ticks all the HN boxes and finds daily life a real trial. It's tough as DT2 (easygoing) gets left on the play gym/bouncy chair cooing away to himself while I spend all my time calming DT1.

I also wanted to post as I'm living proof that it is nothing we are doing as parents making these babies demand so much from us. The DTs obviously had an identical antenatal environment, are both ebf on demand, had straightforward natural delivery and obv the same parenting from us.
One is the easiest baby you could hope to meet, his brother is inconsolable when not nursing or asleep!

Hope that helps when you're feeling judged with a screamer.

Am off to the GP on Weds as we're past the newborn stage now and I want to make sure there's definitely no way it's physical discomfort causing his misery.
Can't bear the idea that he's suffering chronic pain. He has even mastered being able to cry while feeding - you can hear him swallowing between each seperate wail!

Littlepige Mon 03-Jun-13 18:27:58

arseface my first reaction to reading your post was: this woman is incredible, you have twins, one HN, and they are ebf on demand. I hope enough people are telling you what an amazing job you are doing! I hope it goes well with the GP
My DS is nearly six months and something seemed to click about a month ago- he seemed more relaxed and smiley. We can manage short journeys in the car which is such a relief. The change seemed to coincide with us moving to a much sunnier part of the world...
As we have moved I lost my network of babies groups and echoing what others have said here... It is so much easier! No other babies to compare to! No leaving groups early or not being able to sit down because of the screaming! It feels a lot easier to just do what we are doing without constantly feeling like I am doing something wrong as everyone else's babies are so chilled out. Now, if we can just work on the hourly night waking...

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