Nothing works with my 10mo old DS-- Please Help!

(68 Posts)
IHeartCake Tue 09-Oct-12 10:50:05

My DS is the most wonderful sweet little boy in the entire world all day but he is a total terror all night. He regularly wakes 5-8x a night at 10mo old. We have NEVER had that one magical night where he slept through. Nope. The BEST we have ever had was ONCE when he woke 3xs. Bliss.

We have tried everything. CC. GW. Going with the Flow, etc. He doesn't seem to respond to anything and will just keep waking up night after night and crying for hours. If I am there or if I am not.
My DH and I are on our knees.

What I'd like to know is there anyone else out there like this? What did you do/ are you doing?

And 2, did anyone's else's baby just get better. Not if there were already pretty good (i.e. waking 3 xs a night) but if they were as awful as mine and poof one day they just got better. Please someone tell me there is light at the end of the tunnel.
And this is my 2nd kid! I thought I had it all figured out. HA!

Sargesaweyes Tue 09-Oct-12 10:59:45

Ds is 13 months and has gone from waking up every night a few times to sleeping through 3 nights on the trot. I also tried everything btw so know how you feel.
Factors that seem to contribute ds are teething and food. If he has eaten well all day he is less restless at night, although I still have to give him an 11 o'clock bottle to avoid needing one in the night. Also when he's teething he wakes up loads so keep him dosed up on calpol for those nights. We also co sleep most of the time, I figure I'll sort that issue out when he's sleeping more consistently.

It is horrid but fingers crossed ds seems to be getting better- hopefully the same will happen with your ds.

Sargesaweyes Tue 09-Oct-12 11:02:23

By the way he has had nights of waking up over and over but because he's in bed with me on those nights it's been dealt with pretty quickly.

IHeartCake Tue 09-Oct-12 11:18:01

Thanks Sarge. I've had him in with me the last 2 night due to a cold and have had even worse sleep and am now worried that I'll never get him back into his cot! He's a very mobile little boy and he's not big on the solids.
Good to hear that 13mo might be better. Pls pls!!

BTW, my 3yr old still comes into the bed at some point in the middle of the night and we've given up on ever sorting that out! But we don't mind b/c she goes straight back to sleep and is basically unwakable.

rhetorician Tue 09-Oct-12 20:06:59

Iheartcake we have similar (although not as bad) - dd2 is also 10 months, started off ok, but for the last couple of months we have had (1) hours spent putting her to sleep - tedious beyond belief and (2) bed at 7.30, wake up 8, 11, 2 or 3, and then constant up and down from 3 onwards. She comes in with us after 3, but thrashes about, sits up etc. She eats fairly well, and is now mobile, so was hoping that crawling the length of the house several times might have worn her out.

Like you, we are totally fed up with it. She has never slept through either. Not once. We had a few good nights of one wake-up, but it's more usually 3 (every 3-4 hours, basically). We haven't tried much, but may well end up in the CC/CIO place before long. We can get her to sleep, we can put her back to sleep, but we cannot keep her asleep. And I just don't know why.

No help, but a bit of virtual hand-holding. It's bloody dreadful, and is impacting hugely on the family, on my relationship with DP etc. I'm sure you know what I mean sad

Sargesaweyes Tue 09-Oct-12 20:25:40

My doctors runs sleep clinics. I've never quite felt desperate enough been very close to go. Might be worth seeing if yours does anything similar for tips.

My ds is also very lively. He was walking at 9 1/2 months and is just very interested in everything. Almost as if he has no time for sleep. I met someone the other day who's son sleeps from 5.45 to 8.30 every night! I guess some babies are just lazier than others.

Do you Think it might be teeth? They really cause ds trouble, whereas my friends daughter sprouts a new one with no moaning at all.

rhetorician Tue 09-Oct-12 20:34:28

yes, she is renowned for her wiggling and the fact that she is never still! we have a sleep consultant coming tomorrow - don't live in UK, so have to pay through nose for suggestions that I am sure we could think up ourselves if we had a remaining functional brain cell between us...

IHeartCake Tue 09-Oct-12 21:23:07

sympathy rhetorician. That's exactly it. DS for the last 3 nights has woken up around 9, cried for 3-5 mins then went back to sleep so clearly he knows how to do it. Why not at 2/3/4/5:30??

I DO know what you mean. My poor DP sleeps on a camp bed in my DDs room half the time. Completely stupid.

Sarge, I hope its teeth. He's about to sprout the top ones but I don't think that's entirely it. He doesn't SEEM to be in pain really. Oh I just don't know. Sympathy for you too. It's hard isn't it??

Sargesaweyes Tue 09-Oct-12 21:53:35

Dp and I have argued so much through exhaustion. Dp's job involves driving so he can't really do the night stuff. I do understand this is the right thing but I also work and become resentful when it's all down to me.

My ds is (touch wood) a million times better, so crossing my fingers for both of yours to improve ASAP.

One thing I did do when ds was really bad was keep him up late which would at least mean his main good Stretch of sleep was when I was in bed.

rhetorician Tue 09-Oct-12 22:02:00

Iheart has he always been terrible, or is it new? Cos dd2 was quite good at first and I think this made us complacent. She just cannot settle herself - so if she turns over and wakes, then she needs someone to settle her. This used to be DP who fed her to sleep, but it's now me as we thought breaking that link might help; but all that happens is that it takes longer and I have to do it!!

DP and I never argue, but we have had some real humdingers over this - usually at 4 in the morning <helpful>- the sleep consultant really is to give us a plan, rather than arguing about what to do in the middle of the offing night.

GeeandTee Wed 10-Oct-12 03:52:46

I was just about to post the same question! DD is 10mo and started out as an ok sleeper, it got much worse at 6mo when her teeth started coming through but then got better again at 8mo, so I finally took the plunge and moved her into her own room. A couple of weeks later she starting waking 4-5 times a night and she now wakes at least every hour, all through the night. Often I put her down and she wakes up 5 minutes later. I get about 2-3 hours sleep a night and can't catch up in the day as not only does she only nap for 30 mins at a time in the day, I also have 2.10yo to look after as well.

Like you I have tried everything, except haven't gone as far as CC. I don't think it would work on her anyway as leaving her to cry just makes her absolutely hysterical when I've had to do it in the past eg to look after DS.

She is easy to get to sleep, although I have to hold her and pat her back, but just can't seem to stay asleep.

Its so frustrating and soul destroying and I feel like all of my maternity leave is being wasted by feeling so awful all the time. And then I also feel guilty that I'm not engaging enough with her in the day as sometimes I'm just too tired to even talk, on the days that DS is at his childminder.

DH can't function without sleep and has a v stressful and busy job so I have been doing all of it, except for the last few weeks when he's helped out for a few nights.

Its horrible, and like you I feel like there's no end in sight sad

GeeandTee Wed 10-Oct-12 03:59:25

Oh, and we have had the odd night where she's slept through, which makes it all the more bewildering why sometimes she seems able to self-settle and other nights she can't, or won't.

What I'm trying at the moment is letting her cry for 5 mins before I go into her, in the hope that she realises its too much effort to keep doing this! Its not ideal as then it wakes up DH and DS and takes longer to get her back to sleep but I think that settling her as soon as she starts crying means that she has no motivation to learn to self-settle, ifswim.

At the moment I am sleeping in my dressing-gown all night so I don't keep getting cold getting in and out of bed all night. I hate winter!

IHeartCake Wed 10-Oct-12 11:43:04

No kidding. My DH's way of dealing with it seems to be to ask endless "why is he doing this...?" questions in the middle of the night. I get angry as I don't know!!! And pls be quiet so as to not disturb the crying baby!!

But otherwise, he is a saint and yep works really hard and can't really help in the night. DS as always been a terrible sleeper but it seem to be progressively worse.

I JUST had a HV around and boy are they useless. She basically just said I should let him CIO. "But," I said, "he'll be hungry. He's used to feeding all night."
"Just close the door and let him cry", she said.
OK. I think MOST health professionals at least recommend CC over CIO. Guess we are on our own then ladies. How did it go with your sleep consultant? Any magic advise?

I totally understand Gee. It is soul destroying. I don't know if you have tried a GW but it worked like a charm to sort out my DD when she was little (now 3 and it's hard with 2 isn't it??!). Useless on DS but it might work for you? Also a 30min nap might be OT?

rhetorician Wed 10-Oct-12 22:07:31

sleep consultant very nice and didn't tell us much we didn't already know - controlled crying is where we are headed, I guess. She needs to learn to sleep without a person being there: I know this has to be done, and to be fair it's not leaving her to cry for hours on her own, but a bit of me just thinks she's only tiny and she just wants to sleep next to a nice warm safe body...

tholeon Thu 11-Oct-12 08:10:53

In similar place with nine month old dd. She just wants to sleep on lovely warm person. Which is sweet but somewhat impractical. Have read a million sleep books and tried gw but we just seem to replace one problem with another, eg when we stopped feeding her in the night she woke up less but took longer to settle, up to two hours which is a killer.. She was pretty good as a newborn but has got worse, wondering if we are just too soft?? Most of my friends do seem to do the leaving to cry thing in the end but just not sure can face it.. Though am much better parent and human being in general when not shattered! Also have v full on three year old..

IHeartCake Thu 11-Oct-12 10:12:27

Hi Tholeon. Welcome to the club!
Yes mine has been coming into bed the last 4 nights and seems to be loving the comfort but it hasn't improved the night wakings.
Was your 3yr old a good sleeper?

Please somebody tell me why it should be that giving your child love and comfort should come with such a heavy burden. Aren't we just following our intuition?? How can it be so hard. The sodding HV said if I don't sort this out now, I'll have a 15yr old coming to the bed for milk. I mean how ridiculous is that. SURELY they figure it out on their own eventually. But I can't wait. I'm too tired. I just don't know what else to try. SO... Friday night, I'm moving my DD out of her room, into mine. Moving DS into a cot in her room and I'm going to try to tackle this properly. But where to begin with night weaning?? I mean, If you feed them sometimes but not others, doesn't that give the poor LO a mixed message? And what to do at the other times. Cuddle but not feed? CC? Blgh what a mess.

BTW, rhetorician I hope your consultant wasn't too expensive. If you'd like me to walk you through what we did in terms of GW for my DD, I will. I worked really well for her and it might work for you. felt more gentle to me. I just wish it would work for my son. Maybe I'll try again. I do think there is an element of getting the timing right. Speaking of which, DS sprouted a top tooth yesterday. hmm

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Thu 11-Oct-12 11:41:17

Hello <knackered emoticon>

I'm in a different timezone, 3:35am here and been up and down for the last hour with DD (also second baby WTF?).

We've had 3nights when she's slept through since birth, phases when she's just woken once for a feed but it's now been about 2months of waking at different and all times of the night for unfathomable reasons. She usually refuses a bottle, won't be cuddled, by 4/5am is generally in bed with us but windmills so I then get NO sleep.

Also 10months - food seems to make no difference (loves her solids and still gets through 4bottles a day), neither does crawling round at top speed, no change whether she has 1x 30 min nap or two decent ones...

For some reason I naively go to bed hoping for at least half a nights good sleep!

She's in our room as we have guests until December and I think it's worse because she knows we're right here. 3 teeth sprouting all at once last week doesn't help but not convinced it'd be much different anyway!!

rhetorician Thu 11-Oct-12 12:07:14

sorry, what is GW? <dim>

tholeon Thu 11-Oct-12 13:09:11

Gradual withdrawal...

Ds, three year old, wasn't great, but night weaning at thirteen months, by sending dh in instead of me, helped a lot. Didn't seem to do it for dd, though she is younger admittedly. He then went through a long phase, till about two and a half, of wanting me lie next to him when he woke, but it was only once a night, and not every night, so it didn't bother me too much. He is ok now, except when he has a bug, like at the moment..

I think the comment about a fifteen year old wanting to breastfeed and co sleep is pretty ridiculous, obviously they will grow out if it, issue is just how long it will take, how bad it is and impact on family.. Feel a bit stuck between trauma and extra exhaustion of cc and ongoing sleep deprivation..

rhetorician Thu 11-Oct-12 13:54:17

yes HV comment pretty unacceptable; I suppose the question is whether they will grow out of it or not; I have a feeling that DD won't - the arrangement suits her perfectly well! But I think overall that everyone's life as a family will be better if we all get enough sleep; she needs better sleep at night; and DP and I after 3+ years of babies/sleep deprivation/ breastfeeding etc do have a right to an adult relationship - even if that is simply sleeping in the same bed at night! We will start the sleep training regime on Monday. It basically involves settling and withdrawing, settling and withdrawing until she falls asleep - it doesn't involve leaving her to cry for any period of time.

IHeartCake Thu 11-Oct-12 14:58:27

Hi Mousey. Welcome. It is really frustrating isn't it. When it is all so unfathomable. I really don't know but the books all make it sound like you do x y and z and it'll all fall into place. HA!

Looks like we are all going to do this about the same time. I MIGHT wait until that 2nd top tooth sprouts. It can't be more than tomorrow or Sat. Then at least I'll be able to discount tooth pain.
I'm still not 100% sure of the plan of action but it will involve night weaning and CC.

I know that it still breaks our hearts but if it helps at all there was a study released in the UK press last month that basically confirms that CC will not do any lasting damage to our children.

just think of that at 3am when the doubts creep in...

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Thu 11-Oct-12 15:11:22

That HV comment is definitely unacceptable, but then they do tend to spout all sorts of crap!

Weirdly after posting DD fell asleep and didn't wake til 6! Didn't end up in our bed, so I got another 2hours solid sleep in - it has been a loooooooong time since that happened!

I've tried CC twice, once at 8months, again 2weeks ago - both times the first night was ok, bearable for both of us, second night she went completely mental, banshee screaming for over an hour, no consoling. Neither of us ready to deal with that! We're home for Christmas and jan so will have to wait til February before trying again.

DS turns 4 end of this month - he had colic and his first 4months were awful for all of us but by 6months he was doing 2-3hour naps and sleeping through by 7months. Bar the occasional phase of 5am starts he's been a brilliant sleeper since - tempted to move DD in with him and he can teach her to sleep!!

tholeon Thu 11-Oct-12 16:35:43

Thank you for the link Iheart, that helps. I have tried leaving dd but not for more than five minutes hard crying. Sometimes she does just moan and settle herself, she can do it, just usually doesn't... Think next move will probably involve letting her cry but sitting by cot while she does it, so I am not worried she feels abandoned...

IHeartCake Thu 11-Oct-12 20:57:30

Honestly. What does it take to be an HV?? why is their advise so antediluvian? Not to mention she digressed into this big tirade about how I should be having dinner with my kids rather than my husband. NEVERMIND.

Mousey you must feel amazing!! That is great!! But HOW will you make it til Feb? Honestly? But why wait? I know you are in a different time zone but you're not checking in from the future, right? Xmas is still 3 months away? smile

Colic is a nightmare so big love to you for getting through it. My 1st is a brilliant sleeper NOW too. Horrible at first.

Theoleon that is a great idea if that works for your LO. What I have read suggests that camping out takes longer and there is more crying as it takes them longer to settle but it feels better for you for the reasons you have said and is less stressful for them. I read some article about cortisol on this at some point. When I sat my by DD's cot she cried for 2hrs the first night. In a moment of desperation, I gave her the shirt from my back, which she still sucks/snuggles to day. The 2nd night was 1hr, the next was 30mins. From that point on, I could lay her down and walk out of the room.
Good luck!!!

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Fri 12-Oct-12 03:31:48

Yeah trouble is DD is normally in the spare room but we now have pretty much back to back visitors so she's in with us til we fly home for Christmas, then she's in a travelcot sharing a room with me around the country til feb when we return. Sob!

She is now refusing bedtime. Joy. Trouble with always feeding her to sleep is when it won't work!!

IHeartCake Fri 12-Oct-12 21:22:21

Ah I see. And I must be in the past as shock xmas is 2 months away!
You could maybe spend the next 2/3 months popping the nipple out of her mouth just before she falls asleep. This is taken from NCSS. She'll protest but over 2/3mo she'll get used to not having it in her mouth just before she nods off. If she can get used to that it'll make it just a smidgen easier later on?

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Sat 13-Oct-12 08:40:24

I just don't know why she's waking as often she'll refuse the bottle.

It's nearly 1am and we're both up watching Family Guy (bad mummy) because DH woke her up in the midst of resettling and she is wide bloody awake.

Make. It. Stop.

How is everyone else getting on? Anyone trying anything new to fix this?

tholeon Sat 13-Oct-12 17:08:00

Not great. Bed at seven, up at eleven ish for forty five minutes or so. Then at four am, for two hours, then decided she was tired and back to bed at six, just as my son woke up... Feel ok today though having gone to bed at eight myself. Just means no grown up time..

Will see how we go. Might do the sitting by her cot while she cries thing one day, but will need to be the right moment..

GeeandTee Sat 13-Oct-12 21:35:19

Hey there, well we have now had a couple of good nights. She's woken a few times until midnight/1am and then slept through until 6.45am with a couple of low key grizzling sessions where she's gone back to sleep by herself. Haven't done anything differently so no idea why she's stopped hourly (or more) wakings all of a sudden, just hope it lasts!

She has now conquered crawling, pulling up and is starting to cruise, also just cut two teeth, so maybe it has just been a culmination of all those things? Just hope it lasts! Will let you know...

stinkymice Sat 13-Oct-12 21:51:00

HV full of crap! My DS is 11 now and would NEVER crawl into our bed at night. He was a terrible sleeper as a baby, and yes they do grow out of it.
One thing we did do which worked for us and might for your DD. When he was about 3 and I was pregnant, it got to the point when I really needed him to stop getting into our bed.
We made up a little bed on the floor of our bedroom for him. Made it really snuggly, next to me so I could hold hands with him. He loved it and happily came into our room but straight to his bed. Helped alot when trying to stay dry at night too having another bed ready made.

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Sun 14-Oct-12 07:57:48

GeeAndTee that's brilliant, hope she keeps it up!

We had the same thing. Ds2 wasn't a great sleeper before six months, but after that it went downhill. He was waking up around 6 times a night, as soon as he got a bf, he'd go back to sleep. First, we cut out the nightfeeds over the space of a week (he was nine months at the time, and eating well during the day). We changed his bedtime routine to be a bit more definite (bath every night now, etc.) and used the Andrea Grace book. There was a thread about her methods a couple of weeks ago. He is now sleeping through (about 7, the time alters depending on how much of a bf he has, until 6), and has done for about three weeks now. Some nights it takes a while to get him to sleep (last night was horrible, and it took an hour), and occasionally he'll wake up a bit earlier, but he'll stay in his cot until 6.

Before this worked, I had tried pick-up, put-down, but that didn't work for us.

I hope you find your solution soon, it is horrible while it lasts.

GeeandTee Sun 14-Oct-12 10:03:30

Hmmm, another night of hourly wake-ups, then slept 3am - 7.30am. Seems like it hasn't ended yet!

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Sun 14-Oct-12 15:07:47

But maybe a step closer? DD actually slept from bedtime til 5am but I woke CONSTANTLY because I'm so used to it, every little noise she made woke me up.

Because of just getting 3hours broken sleep night before last, I think I'm now the most tired I have been in DD's life sad

I've been informed a few times now that wakefulness in a baby is a sign of intelligence. Well, I'm delighted that I, and others here, are the mothers of future geniuses, but right now I'd swap a few IQ points for a stretch of sleep longer than 2 hours. Does such a scheme exist? Tesco?

IHeartCake Tue 16-Oct-12 10:52:01

smile Sure, all future rocket scientists. They better be! All this trouble now. It's just so unfair to have TWO bad sleepers. Everyone told me the 2nd one would be all chilled out. WELL at least he is the sweetest smiliest giggliest little boy in the world. God I love him!!

So ok. The nights are still terrible but I'm being proactive. I've evicted poor DD from her bedroom and put the side back up on her bed. I've moved DS in there. He was a bit freaked out falling asleep Sun night so I stayed with him till he fell asleep. He woke a LOT. Like 6x maybe, 2 of which he was awake for over an hour but he was OK. I only fed him at 10, 1:30, and 4:30.

I've settled on a combo of night weaning and GW. I'm going to spend 3 nights (2 done already) rubbing his back, then just sitting there, then moving away whilst reducing his 3 night feeds by 30 secs each night. So this time next week, I should be at his door w/ no feeds. OOH! We'll see! I'm really worried about a 5am start but it's time to tackle this. Unfortunately, he starts settling into nursery next Tues so poor little thing has a lot to handle all at once.

GeeandTee Wed 17-Oct-12 07:20:20

Just to update, she's slept through the last 3 nights except for one wake-up last night!! Not done anything differently.

Weirdly, it has totally messed up her daytime napping though, she seems to want to drop her morning nap then takes to go down for her post-lunch nap and is very wakeful.

sleepymum50 Wed 17-Oct-12 07:48:08

Have you tried swaddling? Thats wrapping them up (just like the baby jesus)

Iloverobinhood Wed 17-Oct-12 08:09:46

My 9 month dd has never been a very good sleeper including wide awake bouts of at least one hour in the middle of the night. She's a lively girl, into everything so I just assumed that she was having another regression and her little mind just can't relax enough to sleep. Anyway someone suggested I look at her diet - she absolutely loves any types of fruit and her diet is probably a bit fruit heavy tbh. I've cut out the fruit at tea time and give her a small bowl of porridge/ weetabix for pudding and I don't know if it is coincidence but on those nights she has slept so much better. I forgot one evening and on that night she was back to usual antics. May not help but thought any suggestions helpful when you're exhausted. Good luck.

spartacusflapjack Wed 17-Oct-12 14:25:32

Our nearly 10mo twins have started the multiple night wakings too and, like you all, I am utterly exhausted. And completely baffled by it. They started going through at about 5 months and slept 12 hours until 8 months then it all started to go wrong when they were poorly a couple of months back.
I wish I knew what the answer was. I try to console myself that in time things will sort themselves out.
One thing that works some of the time is creeping in an putting white noise on the cd player in their room. The slumberbear does a similar job without me having to get out of bed as it is activated by a cry.
Might be worth a try if you haven't already tried it.

IHeartCake Thu 18-Oct-12 10:13:02

yeay GeeandTee! Well done. Maybe she just needs a little more awake time in the am due to being better rested?

Thanks for your suggestions all. I think 10mo is a bit old for swaddling but yes there might be something to not filling them up on sugar, albeit fructose just before bedtime.
I do have a white noise maker activated by cry but haven't used it since DS was really little. Maybe I'll give it another go.

GeeandTee Thu 18-Oct-12 14:30:37

4 nights now! And she's definitely dropped her morning nap now, but sleeps a bit longer after lunch now. No idea what happened. But take hope ladies!

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Thu 18-Oct-12 15:50:22

GeeandTee that's brilliant, you must feel amazing!!

DD hasn't been swaddled since she was 4months, she fights it like a banshee. She always has a hearty supper but will double make sure no fructose before bed too.


GeeandTee Thu 18-Oct-12 21:39:22

D'you know what? I actually feel horrendous. I think its because I've just had to run on adrenaline and now that I'm actually sleeping I feel like I've just crashed or something. I guess 10 months without proper sleep is going to take a while to recover from! Still feel nervous that it was just a random blip and she'll go back to hourly wakings any day now...

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Fri 19-Oct-12 16:44:58

DD now wakes every night just to play, for hours.

I am dying

IHeartCake Fri 19-Oct-12 19:20:07

I sympathize. My DS woke 6x last night. 2 of those times he was awake for over an hour. 5:15-6:15 spent in the car seat with me rocking him confused.

GeeandTee go on. fess up. what is your secret? What did you do?? envy envy

GeeandTee Fri 19-Oct-12 19:45:31

Girl does she play happily ie can you leave her in her cot while she's awake? At least then you can lie down and rest even if she's keeping you asleep.

Cake seriosuly, nothing different at all. She just changed overnight! Its worrying actually as it means she could go back to hourly waking any time.

IHeartCake Fri 19-Oct-12 20:29:26

I don't know. She's proven she can do it so there you go! And if you haven't all ready you can cut out night feeds once and for all. You are 90% there. When my DD started sleeping through, a week later she got a tummy bug but it was a blip and we never looked back.
(She's 3 and she creeps into our bed at night!) But nevermind that!!

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Sat 20-Oct-12 02:44:01

Maybe I should not feed at all at night?

IHeartCake Tue 23-Oct-12 14:40:30

Hi Mousey. Sorry. Yes I wanted to say that I started this post saying nothing works. I have subsequently night weaned. Tonight will be the first official night with NO feeds. And combined it with of GW, which changed to CC half way through as He was just not responding. I think this will work. I think the night weaning is key. It is the only way that you can really be totally consistent in your night time responses to the LOs.

It is hard. Poor little thing cried for 1.5hrs last night sad but this is all headed to a good place and I am sure this will work!!

forevergreek Tue 23-Oct-12 15:01:32

I would recommend controlled crying. You can leave v small spaces between leaving them. I have done pop in cot, quick reassurance ad leave. 30 seconds on timer on phone, return, reassure ( do not pick up!), leave. Repeat. It can go on for ages the first evening, but having had some bad sleepers as a nanny, the longest this has gone on was exactly 27 mins.

Some people leave a min/2 mins/ 5 mins before returning, so pick what you are happy with. Personally I do 30secs, and if I know the child well and can tell by cries it is subsiding I might change to 1 min gaps.

When stopped I always return, reassure and say goodnight/ kiss when they are calm and ready to sleep as a way of showing that someone will still return even when not screaming

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Tue 23-Oct-12 16:09:30

I've already tried CC twice - the first night went ok but then it resulted in absolute hysterics that couldn't be consoled for over an hour. Neither of us were ready for that - and she was a lot more clingy (and woke MORE) in the ensuing days and nights. If we're still like this after Christmas I'll give it a go again (worked at bedtime for DS when he was 10months) but right now DD isn't a good baby to try it on

IHeartCake Tue 23-Oct-12 19:26:32

have you tried GW? It worked really well with my much more sensitive and clingy DD

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Wed 24-Oct-12 05:50:02

Tried it a few months ago. Might be worth a try again soon though. Our problem is we have to share a room with her until end of November - I've no idea WHAT sleep training recommends what to do in that scenario!

Pugless Wed 24-Oct-12 07:46:43

My ds is exactly the same hes my 3rd dc its so much harder this time. Ds1 slept through from 6weeks old. Dd was a nightmare and didnt sleep through until she was 18months shes nearly 3 and still has one night a week where she wont sleep she has a couple if hours then shes done. Ds2 is 10month he will go to bed no problem (half the battle) but he takes a bottle for comfort. He sleeps at most for 4solid hours and then thats it. It can range from every hour to every couple if hours. We have tried cc a few times and nothings working. Im the one thats getting up as dp works long shifts and ds will only settle for me. Spoke to hv not helpful at all basically told me u shoukd know what im doing as its my 3rd. So it looks like im going to have to ride it out until ds decides hes ready to sleep through.

IHeartCake Wed 24-Oct-12 13:05:58

In the end, I ended up moving my 3yr old DD onto a camp bed in our room and 10mo old DS into her room. I really had to do that to have the discipline I needed to finish the sleep training.

He slept through last night BTW for the first time ever!!! grin

It would not have worked if I didn't couple it with night weaning. I really think that is key.

But, Mousey, if it helps you, when DS was in our room, we ended up stringing a clothes line across the room and pinning up a sheet. It did help that he couldn't see us. We also slept on a blow up bed in the living room for 3 nights when we (stupidly one week before holiday) first tried sleep training. Worth a try?

Pugless have you tried night weaning? Might work for you too and you can do it gently. You don't have to go cold turkey.

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Wed 24-Oct-12 14:23:35

Anything is worth a try!! We have back to back visitors til the end of November and our lovely open plan house makes all noise travel and reverberate around hmm

Sat up with her now. She's been awake since 5, desperate to sleep but nothing is working ( haven't fed her). I literally don't know what to do!

Pugless Thu 25-Oct-12 07:26:24

iheartcake whats night weaning? (I know i sound thick blush i need to do something he was up 5 times last night. Dp thinks ds is hungry and wants to introduce supper at around 7pm ds has tea at 4.30/5. Hes not realy having a proper nap he mite drop off if were out in the car.

IHeartCake Thu 25-Oct-12 09:45:46

Mousey yeah that's hard b/c at the end of the day you aren't going to want to disturb them in the middle of the night with crying. It'll be easy to lose resolve.
Ok. This is what I would do.
1. string up a clothes line between your bed and the cot so that she can't see you. You can always take it down in the night if it's not working but at least you'll have some sort of barrier b/w you if you do want to leave her for 3 mins or so to see if she resettles.

2. Work on teaching her to fall asleep without feeding to sleep. Even if you still get the night wakings, you'll be halfway there if you can get to the point where you can put her down awake and walk out of the room. You won't have to worry about disturbing people in the middle of the night and you can spend the next month doing it gradually. That way you feel like you are being proactive and making a positive change.
Millpond (with my variations) says to do this:
Nights 1-3- rock to sleep. hold 10 mins once asleep then put down gently.
Nights 4-6- hold whilst sitting still. hold 10 mins once asleep then put down gently.
Nights 7-9- lie side by side on cot mattress on the floor. stay 10 mins once asleep then creep out.
Nights 10-12- sit beside cot til asleep. comfort however you want through bars but don't pick up.
Nights ... move gradually away. I found I didn't need to stay at all after night 12.

You never know. Nights might improve.

Pugless- Night weaning is when you stop feeding them i the middle of the night. If you are using a bottle, try replacing 1/2-1oz per night with water until it is just water. Then you can be confident to know that you haven't gone cold turkey and they are not hungry. They have gradually had less milk so have gotten used to it.
Believe me, I tried EVERYTHING with my son and the only thing that has worked is to get rid of the nighttime milk feeds. what do you think?

Pugless Thu 25-Oct-12 10:14:14

Its something i will try because its the only thing that will settle him during the night. He has just gone down for a nap without a bottle. So if i give him a 8oz bottle to go to bed with tonight then when he wakes for a bottle give him a 7oz bottle and so on (apologies if im not quite getting what you mean blush

Pugless Thu 25-Oct-12 10:17:31

Sorry just read my post back and it doesnt make sense. When ds wakes in the night he wont settle back down without a bottle and he then falls asleep on the bottle. But he has just gone for a nap without needing a bottle to fall asleep on.

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Thu 25-Oct-12 13:44:27

Thanks IHeart

Will give your plan a try. Trouble at the moment is even rocking/cuddling doesn't work. No matter what method I use to calm her down, she's awake and crying again within minutes. This goes on for 2hours + every night.

I think she's an insomniac - she's just so angry that she's not asleep. But will give your method a go, even if it takes 2hours to get her to sleep!

IHeartCake Thu 25-Oct-12 15:27:49

the continuing to hold her for 10mins is KEY. It allows them to get into a deep sleep. If you try to put her down after 2 mins, yes she will wake and cry. For my daughter, once she learned to fall asleep without motion but still in my arms, she started to wake less in the evening. It was at the point where she'd wake and cry every 10-20mins all evening. Brutal! (btw, ideally you'd do the same thing for every waking so that you are being consistent but I completely understand the guests thing)

Fantastic news! If he fell asleep for nap w/o bottle then he can do it!
As for night weaning. No it does like this...
Night one- 7 oz bottle x 2 or 3 times in the night. like 10, 1 & 4. The other wake ups you do some GW or CC (there'll have to be some tears I think sooner or later sad).
Night 2- 6 oz bottle
Night 3- 5oz bottle. and so on and so forth...

Pugless Thu 25-Oct-12 15:36:44

I get it now (sound of the penny dropping) grin i will give it a try. Thank you for your help.

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Thu 25-Oct-12 20:29:58

Ok, DH is going to have to take up the slack this weekend so I'm rested enough to cope on my own next week. My best friend is visiting from Saturday but she'll understand.

DH can then move into DS' room while I try out your plan above. I know it won't be as easy as getting her to sleep, hold her for 10mins then put her down because she often remakes before I've even thought about putting her down! If there is no improve,ent or I haven't been able to move to the next stage at the end of next week, I have 4 days between guests so might give CC another bash, seeing as we can be in separate rooms.

I am not as exhausted as I thought I'd be but feeling incredibly low and depressed because of the sleep deprivation sad

IHeartCake Sat 27-Oct-12 20:23:58

Hows it going pugless?

Good luck Mousey. I hope it works. Something's been playing on my mind. You said she wakes a few minutes after she falls asleep even if she's in your arms... I think that sounds like OT. What are her naps like at the mo? How much awake time before bed?

BTW, mine has fallen apart (and it was never that together!). 2hrs of crying from 2-4am last night. sad
Don't know why or what to do but really worried it'll happen again tonight. Why won't he just sleep!!!

Pugless Sun 28-Oct-12 09:08:55

Hi things are alott better were down to two wake ups grin we started giving ds supper at around 7ish hes goin to bed around 730 with a 6oz bottle. He then wakes about 1 then its around 4:30/5 another bottle then sleep until 7ish. This morning was earlier 5:45 but thats due to the clocks goin back (so to ds it was 6:45). He has porridge when he gets up at 7 then hes ready for a nap at 9 which means i can do the housework without trying to keep a 10month old entertained. So on the whole things are alot better. But tonight could be a totally different night.

iheart theres nothing worse than waking up tired and already dreading the night to come. We have had some shocking nights with ds and ive always think the same why wont he just sleep.

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Sun 04-Nov-12 15:51:24

I purposefully haven't updated in a whole for fear of jinxing the sudden good sleep we were getting - DD did 4 nights sleeping through 7-7 aside from ocassionally waking and finding her dummy herself. Last three nights back to old ways though and thanks to my dickhead neighbour revving his car constantly at 3am neither she nor I have slept properly since

I am broken sad

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