Wisdom needed please! DD is 5 months, do we sleep train now or when she is in her own room, and importantly, how?

[ilovespagbol]

DD is breastfed to sleep every night, sometimes this goes well, sometimes its not, and takes a couple of hours to get her asleep in her cot as she will wake just as I am about to put her down. I was trying to put her down sleepy but not asleep. Hmmm! More often that not, she is asleep. She does not nap in the day, unless in the car or pram or in my arms and then wakes if I try to transfer her to her cot.
I want to introduce some scheduled naps as I think she needs them and I need her to need them as am exhausted and need some time in the day to do things that need to be done (I don't have any help, its just me and DP). I could breastfeed to sleep but HV said she needs to learn to self sooth. Having read up on this I sort of realised this but needed to get some advice from a real person not just read it in a book. HV suggested we use same method for daytime naps as for night sleeping, ie CC or PU/PD or gradual retreat. Which one to choose though? Any thoughts on which is most successful? The other issue is she is in her cot in our room and has been for a month or so. She still comes into our bed for feeds (wakes maybe once twice in night at most, otherwise wakes at about 5.30 after 8 hour stretch, fortunately) and I sometimes manage to get her back into her cot afterwards (asleep) sometimes not and we will co-sleep the rest of the night. I don't know when she will go in her own room. Will sleep training work now? Will it have to be done again when she goes in her own room? What about teething / weaning and all those other things that will disrupt her sleep? I am dreading it. Part of me wants to continue the breastfeeding to sleep and do it for naps too. The rational part says that I have to deal with this and get a grip and go through sleep training as then she gets some independence and so do we. Is breastfeeding to sleep a rod for my/our back? Grateful for any thoughts and sorry if this is a ramble....

[mamababa]

Yes it is. In short. But no you shouldnt have to re-train with the room thing, weaning etc.
Oddly, weaning helps. Full tummy, sleepy baby.
Try everything and stick with what works. So, def start during the day. If falls asleep in your arms put in cot and progress to putting sleepy baby in cot then leaving. 5 mins, 10 mins. PU/PD, shush pat, leave alone. try all. have to say that cc I think is best. soothe, leave for 5 mins. then soothe, leave again but you need to give each a few days at least. do you have a night routine? My DS used to be BF to sleep after bath but that fades with age. Have to say I thought Gina Ford was great for this bit. at 5 months think its 2 hours awake ish? So if awake at 7 make sure back in cot at 8.45 latest before they get very tired and teary.
Snuggle blanket,teddy etc. Alone and awake.
best of luck

[mamababa]

sorry just realised - by my comment 'yes it is' I meant that its a rod for your own back. Dont leave it, Own room at 9 months is harder than now x

[babyphat]

well, i must admit i'm not a sleep training kind of gal...but do think it's what works for each family.

but, i must say, all my mum friends were super organised and sleep trained, but now the babies are teething and whatnot they are having to start all over again. and i have noticed my lo is dropping off without a feed some nights, so i think they can make that step naturally.

lots of people say cc shouldn't be done till at least 6 months.

you might find the 6 month old sleep thread interesting sorry can't do link am bfeeding!

[babyphat]

and 5 months is quite young to get 'independence' imo - she is a little baby still, it's natural for her to be dependent on you!

[MrsMattie]

Honest opinion? I think your HV is irresponsible to suggest to you that a 5 month old baby 'should be able to self soothe'. The idea is now planted in your head and you'll have that nagging feeling that you are doing something wrong if you rock, cuddle or feed your baby to sleep. Madness.

On a practical tip, I remember the insane feeling of exhaustion when my DS was that age.

I would adopt a 'by any means necessary' approach and do whatever it is that works to get your baby to sleep. If it's feeding or cuddling, do it. Don't worry about making a rod for your own back. Babies go through all sorts of sleep phases, and having had two completely different 'sleepers' (one who didn'ty sleep through until the age of 2.5 years, one who slept through at 8 weeks), you realise just how very much it is to do with temperament and the individual needs of the baby, and how futile it is to get het up with 'training' of any sort.

[CantSleepWontSleep]

Too young for cc. No it's not a rod for your own back. Listen to the part of you that wants to carry on feeding to sleep, at least until she is well established on solids.

[babyphat]

sorry realised my post sounded v unsympathetic - as another practical tip re exhaustion (i've been there and some days still am!) could you try feeding to sleep on your bed and sneaking away? or letting your lo nap on your lap and you put your feet up? let the housework slide!!

[babyphat]

yet another post from me - i am finding huge changes between 5 months and 7 - now she can entertain herself for long enough for me to get stuff done and i can lug her from room to room while i change sheets etc, or if needs be can sling her while i tidy. at 5 months i couldn't put her down and could get 5 mins tops to do stuff (although she would watch me cook dinner from her highchair for 15 mins or so). so naptime isn't as necessary as it seemed then for getting things done!

[AlexanderPandasmum]

I fed to sleep until DS was a year or so or so and then slowly seperated feeding from sleeping by introducing a cup downstairs with story time, then still offering milk upstairs (knowing that he had already had some and so wouldn't drink so much). He got used to that quite quickly, and then I would cuddle and hold his hand until he slept. He had a very clear bedtime routine with lots of cues that it was bedtime, so even cuddling him to sleep only took about 10 minutes or so. He stayed in our room but is a good sleeper so it didn't make much difference either way (just inertia on our part really and a touch of laziness).

At 2 he got his own bed in his own room and took to it quite quickly (over a few days of reading stories on it, he decided he would sleep in it too). He still has a little cuddle while we read a story in his bed and for about 10 minutes. He's very happy and contented and loves his bed.

I do realise there is such a thing as 'each to their own' but I certainly didn't feel like I made a rod for my own back, in fact I feel like the trust between myself and my son is and always will be there, because he knows that when he cries he will be attended to. Lots of people have remarked that if he does wake in the night wanting something (very rare and always has been) he just calls for mummy and doesn't cry because it doesn't enter his head that I won't come and see what the matter is. And he is calm and settles quickly back to sleep.

I do think that 5 months is a little early to worry about this although I can see why you are because I worried about it too. I do think that maybe by rocking the boat now you might be trying to fix something that isn't broken, and mess up the trust between yourself and your child in the process, which might only make her more inclined to cry. It depends what you mean by 'sleep training'? If you are really keen on putting her down sleepy but awake, you can do this without sleep training. I never managed this myself and fed him to sleep for months and he is not damaged by it now and I still get peace and an evening.

Hope you do come to some sort of solution that you are happy with, anyway!

[ilovespagbol]

thanks for all this advice- the impetus came because breastfeeding to sleep recently became a bit hit and miss, and up to two hours to put down. Routine is upstairs, change while i masse and sing to her, feed, some rocking in my arms, more singing lullabies until she nods off. What we don't do is have absoulte am get up time - it can vary up to an hour - so i then vary bed time accordingly. Perhaps this is the problem. By indepedence, I meant to not absolutely need me to sleep, perhaps to have DP or SIL, who has offered to babysit. (She would do more but lives some distance away). DD does not take a bottle either, so we have not been out together so it would be nice to go out. On the other hand I think, this is just a small chunk out of my life and to go with it, plenty of time to go out once she is weaned. HV also said I was a human dummy and she had me in the palm of her hand. Maybe she does but she is generally a very content, smiley baby, half why CC would be so hard, she isn't used to crying and neither am I. HV also said we were the parents (DP was also there during conversation). That made me feel selfish for not considering that he needs to learn this skill, I got a little addicted to her sleeping in my arms early on. I had no idea about when is appropriate for CC, another HV told me to do it when she was four weeks and we were co-sleeping, along with another rod for your own back comment. I decided that was barbaric. On reflection, we got her from our bed full time, into them moses basket and then into her cot so perhaps I ought to give us more credit than they do. I need to discuss with DP, as he was there with HV he wants me to be firm and try this sleep training. On reading advice, need to trust my motherly insticnts more!

[ilovespagbol]

bed time routine - i masse ?? - I mean I give her a strokey massage! No bath yet, she looks puzzled by it, but trying to introduce slowly.

[babyphat]

spagbol, you sound fantastic. your bedtime routine sounds lovely and gentle and you sounds as though you are doing a wonderful job.

the HV on the other hand, sounds dreadful! a human dummy???? i hate that phrase! how does the muppet think dummies were invented? babies have a need to suck that goes further than their nutritional need, and we can meet that at the breast (which is after all, nature's design) or with a dummy.

don't feel bad re dp, i did too but i think it happens naturally - i used to have to feed to sleep, now my dp can rock her to sleep - my lo is only 7 months so it's not a long time away (though i know all babies are different etc)

ooh am getting mad just thinking about this. your HV sounds mean!! trust your instincts! i haven't bothered with seeing a HV but from what i've gleaned on MN they are a bit random, though sure there are lovely ones out there.

[babyphat]

just realised first line sounded v patronising, it wasn't, i am just jealous/a bit as it sounds so nice and relaxing compared to our house in the evenings!!

[ilovespagbol]

thanks babyphat.... reading your words makes me feel better about how we are doing so far! I sometimes feel the more advise you hear and books you read, the harder it is as there are so many different angles on the sleep thing. Feel better about the soon to come changes between 5-7 months too! Will have a look at the six month sleep thread too. Thanks again everyone.

[iamaLeafontheWind]

Hi Spagbol, you might want to take a look at Dr Sears' books. Definitely a great antidote to any suggestions about sleep training. Or get a copy for your HV.

[scoggins]

Take control of the naps yourself - do you really still want to be this exhausted in 6 months time!!!! Teaching your child how to sleep independently is the greatest gift you can give them (IMHO)- you know what it is like when you can't get to sleep at night - horrible!
Anyway - what I meant to say was do what works best for you - only you know what your threshold is - bt judging by this threat it sounds like you have have reached it

[iamaLeafontheWind]

Just out of interest Scoggins, what would you recommend for an adult friend who couldn't sleep? Just lie there or maybe try a glass of warm milk & a cuddle?