Major nap and sleep issues in 11 week old baby

(57 Posts)
Crazycatlady Tue 31-Mar-09 12:28:39

My DD has never been a great sleeper but seems to be deteriorating as the weeks go on, basically I'm knackered and looking for some advice.

Currently bedtime is 7/7.30ish after a bath/top and tail, feed in dark room, wind then rocking to settle. She sleeps until 10.30ish then wakes for feed. After this feed she then wakes every hour to hour and a half throughout the night until she starts her day anytime between 6 and 7. Sometimes she is hungry, sometimes not, sometimes she has trapped wind, but seems to also be waking repeatedly for no apparent reason and takes a long while to go back to sleep after rocking/shushing/patting etc...

We were cosleeping from midnightish onwards but this now doesn't seem to be helping and she has also developed an all night snacking habit from having constant access to the breast, which I don't want to cultivate.

Any ideas on what I can do to help her sleep better? Would it help to implement some sort of feeding schedule through the night, say, every 3 hours after her 10.30 feed so she gets used to waking less frequently for food?

Other things that might be relevant:
- she's in a grobag in a bedside cot
- not that keen on a dummy, sometimes use to settle her but she inevitably spits it out/thinks it's a game!
- she is on Infacol, although with the all-night snacking my consistency in administering has been poor overnight
- daytime naps are also an enormous struggle to get her down and frequently won't stay down longer than 30 minutes. Previous solution was to pop her in the buggy for a walk but this doesn't work anymore, she's far too interested in her surroundings. I try to get her to have at least 2 naps a day, 3 if they've been short ones.
- always has been what's described as hyper-alert...
- had v traumatic birth with forceps (we are seeing a cranial osteopath, second session tomorrow)
- was under phototherapy lights for first week of life for jaundice
- she's exclusively breastfed on demand and feeds every 3 to 3 1/2 hours during the day.

I'm trying to work on the principle that little babies need to sleep every two hours, but this doesn't seem to apply to my daughter! She doesn't give off very obvious sleepy signs and gets very cross indeed if I try to put her down before she's anything other than exhausted (read - overtired).

All ideas gratefully received, or even just shared experiences of babies at this age - it's good to know you're not alone!!

'I'm trying to work on the principle that little babies need to sleep every two hours, but this doesn't seem to apply to my daughter!'

Then why are you doing it?

Crazycatlady Tue 31-Mar-09 12:52:53

I think it's lack of confidence Starlight. I'm so worried about letting DD get overtired that I'm trying to heed the advice of all the books I've read that say they can only really manage 2 hours awake before needing a nap.

Plus, if I let her, I'm sure she'd go all day without napping and be in a furious temper by the end of the day. When I do manage to get her to nap, she's far more even tempered.

I'm really looking for advice on the frequent night wakings, to make sure I'm not creating the situation IYSWIM or is this just something developmental that we need to ride through?

Ewe Tue 31-Mar-09 12:59:17

My DD didn't nap when she was 11 weeks old apart from the occasional catnap on my chest or in buggy. She did however sleep well at night, maybe you could try going with the flow for 24 hours and try and find her natural rhythm?

madwomanintheattic Tue 31-Mar-09 12:59:43

lol catlady. dd1 didn't sleep at all during the day until she was 6 months old. ds1 fed two hourly 24/7 and slept in between. dd2, well, best not talk about it.
i think you just need to roll with it tbh - try not to get too stressed over what you think she ought to be doing, and do what feels natural for both of you. take a break from reading baby manuals - she hasn't read any of them and will do her own thing no matter how much you read lol. smile

BelleWatling Tue 31-Mar-09 13:06:08

This sounds very typical for little babies and exactly like my son. Won't nap, takes ages to go to sleep and then sleeps for very short time. Sometimes feeds every hour through the day and night. It is impossible to impose a pattern on them much before 9 months, I think. The most important thing is to manage yourself and your sleep/sanity. Can you express for your partner to help out with the night feeds? Does your baby really need to go to bed at 7.30? Putting her to sleep sounds like it takes a lot of work from you and not much fun and might affect her lack of sleep later if she is getting the bulk of her night-time sleeping early.

Little babies need to sleep as much as they do sleep - unfortunately sometimes that isn't very much. My son is now 20 weeks and can move around much more and this tires him out to take longer, more frequent naps during the day and sleeping longer through the night. Get as much rest as YOU can and try to work around them. Sorry this probably isn't the answer you are looking for.

Crazycatlady Tue 31-Mar-09 13:06:24

Thanks madwoman and Ewe. It's hard isn't it, when all the conventional advice says 'sleep begets sleep' so I'm trying hard to get her to nap during the day in the hope it might resolve the night wakings... but doesn't seem to be.

Interesting Ewe that your DD slept well at night despite not really napping.

Madwoman, did your DD1 sleep well at night despite the lack of daytime sleep?

Crazycatlady Tue 31-Mar-09 13:12:17

Belle, DD seems to go down quite easily at 7.30 (the only time she does!), only takes 15-20 minutes for her to be completely asleep in her cot after her feed, then she gets good quality sleep until her next feed, so I'm reluctant to push the bedtime any later.

Might express tonight though so DH can at least do the 10.30pm feed and resettle.

Good to know there's hope for her starting to take longer naps as she gets older though. If it's just her age/developmental stage I can cope with that and fit around her needs - it's really the thought that if there's something I could be doing to help her that I'm NOT doing then I'd want to sort that out.

stinkymonkey Tue 31-Mar-09 13:16:22

I know it's grim, but TBH it sounds fairly normal for that age - she's still very very tiny. I think that sleepless nights are harder to cope with as you go on because the exhaustion accumulates so much. But it will get better - they do all sleep in the end.

Have never tried cranial osteopathy but have heard lots of good reports, so fingers crossed that helps.

One thing that occurs to me that you could do differently is maybe try feeding a bit more often during the day, so that you're working towards your DD getting more of what she needs in daytime. Also you could express a bottle of milk for someone else to give whilst you sleep.

I know you say you don't like dummies, but they can be a godsend. I used to put my LO to sleep with one in his mouth and one in each hand.

BelleWatling Tue 31-Mar-09 13:19:31

OK but make sure you use the 3 hours to sleep/relax yourself (or get some milk in a bottle so you can sleep later.) If she won't nap during the day just stick her in a chair / crib with some (but not too many) toys / entertainment and she might go to sleep or she might not but you shouldn't be giving yourself more work trying to get her to do something she doesn't need or want.

I've never heard that 'sleep begets sleep' - sounds like MiL advice smile and we know what to do with THAT.

HensMum Tue 31-Mar-09 13:22:11

I think there's hope! DS was a rubbish napper until he was about 7 months old but always slept well at night. It gradually got better and better.
Now at 18months, he does 12 hours at night and has an afternoon nap of 2-3 hours when at home (1-2 hours at nursery)

Not much advice to give other than try not to stress too much. I spent hours and hours trying to get him to go to sleep, when really we probably would have both been happier if I'd stuck him in the buggy and gone to the coffee shop!

Crazycatlady Have you considered that it is these books that are responsible for your lack of confidence. I expect you're a fab mother but the attention and thought you are giving these books can be better spent learning to read your baby.

Don't throw them away though, they are good for putting under the head end legs of the cot when your lo has a cold.

I think you need to go back to basics really. Do you think your lo got overtired in the womb and got a furious temper?

Unless you are a VERY routine or naturally controlling person you and your baby will benefit from going with the flow. It is easier in this 'survival period' to try to adapt your life to fit your baby rather than the other way around.

The three solid hours that she sleeps would be a sensible time for you to sleep. Either go to bed yourself at 7pm or move her first sleep to when you want to go to bed.

Don't TRY to make her sleep in the daytime, but you can reduce her stimulation (i.e leave her on a play mat whilst you get on with something. If she gets fractious attend to her, but if she remains calm leave her be and she may drop of, - or perhaps she'll just rest. Do this when it she is calm, not because it is 2 hours since she last woke iyswim.

Above all please enjoy your baby and not get all in a confuddled stressful mess trying to stamp out what some fiction writer has told you is 'bad behaviour'

You don't need to 'teach' your baby about day and night, they will learn by observing the world around them (unless your usual behavour at 3am is to turn the music up really load and invite the neighbours in for a boogie).

madwomanintheattic Tue 31-Mar-09 13:41:50

catlady - not initially, but later on. we moved her to her own room quite early though (yes, i know, now against current sids advice) as quite often we felt it was ua causing her to stir. when we put her in her room in the big cot, it made a real difference to her sleep.
i remember dh coming home for lunch one day when she was about 4 months old, and we spent the whole time peering at her worried there was something wrong, as it was the first time ever she had slept during the day. (she's 9 now lol, and i still remember it!)
honestly, leave the books and trust your instincts (not advocating putting her in another room lol,) have confidence in yourself, not some baby guru who has never met your child.
and absolutely starlight, much easier to go with the flow than both of you getting fraught. and i say this as the biggest control freak you are ever likely to meet grin... just not with small babies lol. enormous waste of energy. smile

Crazycatlady Tue 31-Mar-09 13:48:59

Lol Starlight at the thought of her in a furious temper in the womb! Although sometimes it DID feel like that when she was kicking like crazy.

Confuddled stressful mess is precisely how I feel today, after thinking I was such a chilled out mum... right, books are going in the spider filled cellar where I won't be tempted to reach for them - for at least the next fortnight to see how we go.

I do tend towards control freakery every now and again, so will try to chill a bit. She's just had 'second lunch' so will pop her in the buggy for a walk I think.

Thanks for all your kind words and advice. I knew I'd find a bit of sensibility on here!

madwomanintheattic Tue 31-Mar-09 13:56:46

just re-read your plan to get dh to do the next 'night' feed lol. the first time my dh agreed to do that was the first time dd1 slept through wink if only i'd known sooner... grin funny what memories mn drags up!

Sykes29 Tue 31-Mar-09 14:14:18

Crazycatlady - I've just come on here following advice from my friend who I contacted to say 'Help' my baby won't sleep!! Saw your post and you could be describing my little boy, who is 17 weeks old now.

- Never been a great sleeper.
- Deteriorating as the weeks go on.
- Bedtime of 7/7.30 after bath, feed, song. - Sleeps in own room.
- Won't take a dummy.
- Manages until 10/10.30 then feeds and straight back to sleep.
- After this feed wakes every couple of hours through the rest of the night until wants to get up at about 5am.

- Daytime naps always a struggle. He mostly screams if I put him in his moses basket so have to get him off to sleep in my arms and then put him down. Often wakes after 30/40 minutes.
- Car journey or walk in buggy no longer send him to sleep.
- He is a very very alert little fella and it's like he doesn't want to miss anythuing so doesn't show signs of being sleepy, and then all of a sudden is totally overtired.
- I too read that babies need sleep every 2 hours but he completely resists a nap after 2 hours and somwetimes goes 3 or 4 or even longer between sleeps.

Can't say I can offer any helpful advice at all but just wanted to say thanks for sharing as it's great to know it's not just me and that I haven't completely messed up somehow! The sleep deprivation is murder isn't it!?!?

All I can say is that last night I made myself go to bed at 7.15pm as soon as he did and he slept until 11.00. Normally I would have gone to bed at 11 so not got any of that sleep but it did me a world of good to get a few hours, even if it felt ridiculous going to bed so early!!

Also, I know many people have advised to chuck the books away and i think I agree, although i did fin the Baby Whisperer quiz quite helpful where you can work out roughly what kind of temperament your baby has. Mine is well and truely a 'spirited baby' and it sounds like your little girl might be too. She has some useful tips about coping with such babies.

All the best!!


Crazycatlady Tue 31-Mar-09 17:15:27

Oh Sykes I totally have a 'spirited' baby! They're hard work aren't they?! Gosh our little ones are similar.

Well we went out and she dozed in the buggy then sat happily on my knee while I had a hot choc with friends, then at about 3.30 got all grizzly. Panicking, I packed up to leave then as soon as she was laid down in the buggy she nodded off, so I hung about a bit longer and she slept shock. She then continued to sleep in the buggy on the way home and is still asleep.

I'm going to wake her if she hasn't roused by 5.30 I think as I don't want to interfere with her usual bedtime. I think she got overtired today, so will try taking her out in the mornings instead to see if I can encourage her to nap then.

MrsMattie Tue 31-Mar-09 17:24:59

Just wanted to add my 2 pennies worth grin

Sounds normal.

Totally sympathise with how exhausting this must be for you, though!

My son was 'spirited' (that's one word for it!) and his babyhood was knackering. I know it sounds like crap advice, but I genuinely think it's a case of chucking out all books/guidelines etc and observing your baby closely for a week or two while going with the flow. Can you tell when your baby is tired? Does she ever have longer sleeps? if so, under what conditions?

I'd persevere with the 'naps in buggy' thing. Try to 'catch' her when he is genuinely ready for a sleep and then block out all stimulation - put down the hood/raincover, have the buggy facing you or whatever (I used to drape a blanket over the hood to make it really dark), then go for a fast walk and see what happens. I used to do this once in the morning and once in the afternoon with my DS, and eventually (probably by about 16 weeks) he seemed to have established his own pattern of having a short nap in the morning and a longer nap in the afternoon.

Good luck!

It is tough, as I think parenting guides and the like lead us to believe that we are in (or should be in) complete control of our babies and can mould them into whatever we choose. As you are learning, that's bollocks grin. Babies are definitely born with certain temperaments, and some are more testing than others smile

Crazycatlady Tue 31-Mar-09 17:59:27

She does sometimes sleep for longer - no real pattern to it though, sometimes it's when we've been out, other times just at home in her chair or (once) in her cot. When she has had a long nap it's invariably at lunchtime or later, never in the morning even if we've been up since 6!

Going to try the buggy morning and afternoon for a week. If nothing else, it'll get us out and me some exercise.

Her sleep signals are not very obvious, she never quietens or looks dozy, but can go from happy to overtired in a flash so i'm going to watch her carefully to see if i'm missing something.

thank you everyone and god bless the spirited babies, may we one day get some sleep!

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Tue 31-Mar-09 20:39:24

Hi lovely - totally second MrsMattie on the whole do what you can to get them to sleep. You've seen me pacing round Streatham with stuff clothes pegged to the bee to block out the world so Ethan sleeps! And it does work - he's even occasionally napping for over an hour now (prob every 3 days or so)

I think the key is try not to second guess her, prepare yourself for the half hour naps, anything extra is a bonus.

I try to get E to nap his first nap in his cot every day, just to make sure he does sleep in it sometimes (this is ALWAYS half an hour) then after that go about doing what I want and can knowing he'll nap in the buggy or at someone else's house if I make sure I have the swaddle and dummy with me

see you Friday, or am about tomorrow if you want some company on a napinducing walk

Crazycatlady Tue 31-Mar-09 21:05:03


I think I need to stock up on clothes pegs... I really think she would nap in the Bee better if it was dark.

Well, B has gone to bed beautifully tonight after a bath and a feed, straight down in the cot at 7.30 and still sleeping. Her grobag needs washing so I'm trying something different tonight, I've swaddled her. We'll see how we go with that!

Off to the osteopath tomorrow and dropping in on old colleagues in Clerkenwell (protests/riots permitting - the actual ones, not B I'm talking about!), but will defo see you Friday xx

Crazycatlady Wed 01-Apr-09 08:54:35

So we had a slightly better night last night...

B woke for feeds at 11.30pm, 1.30am and a small top up at 4.30am, settled easily back down in her cot afterwards. Small blip at 5.30 when two foxes mating very loudly in the street outside woke us all up, but she went down again easily after that then started her day at 6.30.

Still more wakings than I would like but it's so much easier when she settles easily afterwards and more importantly in her own bed! I think the swaddling made a huge difference.

We'll see how we go with naps today, we're out and about this afternoon in the car which either causes her to nod off or scream... and will get a walk in this morning while the weather is beautiful.

Sykes do you swaddle your little boy? I know he's a bit bigger but could still be worth a try?

mistlethrush Wed 01-Apr-09 09:06:39

I'd just like to add that ds decided that the only acceptable places to nap during the day if I was around were in his buggy (as long as it was moving); occasionally in the car and mostly on me. He wouldn't 'go down' for a nap on his own until he was about 10mo (except at nursery when he would just fall asleep on the cushions hmm) - if I was around he wanted to be with me.

We didn't start managing to have a proper bedtime for him until about 4 or 5 mo - he just stayed with us (getting a bit more sleepy, but still mostly awake) until we went to bed.

He's now 4. He is certainly spirited. His bedtime is normally before 7 and we leave him singing to himself... grin

(and we found cranial osteopathy good too - solved the colic and later on helped with congestion....)

madwomanintheattic Wed 01-Apr-09 10:36:34

we swaddled except for one arm lol... that had to be free.

HensMum Wed 01-Apr-09 12:23:08

Just popping back in to share a couple of napping in buggy tips.
Firstly, DS liked it best when the ground was evenly bumpy. I used to go up and down Tesco carpark to get him to drop off as it has small bumpy paving stones.
Also, he would usually wake up after 40 mins (wherever he slept) but not if I was moving at that point. So, I'd have to walk to get him to sleep, then I could stop, go into shops, do whatever for 40 mins but then I had to be outside walking again or he'd wake up. Once I was passed that mark, I could stop/shop etc again. The only thing I couldn't do was go home. As soon as I crossed the threshold, he'd wake up hmm

I did a lot of walking when DS was tiny but I did manage to lose 2 stone doing it so it wasn't all bad!

Sykes29 Wed 01-Apr-09 21:30:00

Hiya Crazycatlady - swaddling used to be the only way to get my lo to sleep when he was tiny as he would trash around and scare himself with his flailing arms. He still does it when he gets tired (in fact his movements are quite jerky and enthusiastic in general). We stopped swaddling him quite a while ago as we were hoping he would find his thumb to suck as he wont take a dummy and didn't want to tuck his hands away. He does suck his fingers and thumb but not well enough to soothe himself, more often he gets frustrated with it. We have tried to swaddle him again a few times recently but he alsways escapes within a few minutes - he's a very strong little man.

I looe the fact that he has got tonnes of personality and he is interested in everything and everyone but it's so so tiring having to entertain him all the time and coping with his boundless energy! My nights sound very similar to yours at the moment. Just about managable but could be a lot better!!

Crazycatlady Thu 02-Apr-09 16:40:08

It's hard when they learn how to escape the swaddle! I know what you means Sykes about sucking their hands - DD just seems to get a bit manic and cross that she can't get her entire fist in her mouth!

After one successful swaddling night last night wasn't so good, she kept breaking out and just wanted to feed the whole time so I let her.

Hensmum that's interesting about the 40 minute mark... I might try that with her 30 minute wake up time. And the threshold of home is always when her eyes pop open... argh, must be the familiar smells of the house or something, unless she's in a really deep sleep she's awake as soon as we get the buggy in the door! Ah well, like you say, pounding the streets is good for the post-pregnancy shape up...

fruitstick Thu 02-Apr-09 19:46:44

I find DS stays asleep after a walk if I march the buggy straight through the house and park him in the garden.

I think it's the change in temp that wakes them.

Sykes29 Thu 02-Apr-09 20:30:26

We're thinking of trying to get tough tonight and not letting him feed every time he wakes up but trying to settle him without a feed or leaving him to cry a bit (guilty 'bad Mum' feelings coming.....). Will let you know how it goes.

Sykes29 Fri 03-Apr-09 10:28:44

Well, it went fairly well last night!! He went to sleep at 8pm after a massive feed. He woke at 11pm but we decided he couldn't be hungry so hubby went in and picked him up for a cuddle and put him back down again. He then went in every 5 minutes to calm him down and see if he would go back to sleep without a feed. He screamed like mad but to my surprise went back to sleep in less than 20 mintes (i.e. hubby only had to get up 3 times.) He then slept until 2am. I gave him a nice long feed and a nappy change and put him back down and he slept until 4.30. He woke 3 times between 4.30 and 7am but only cried for less than 5 minutes each time before going back to sleep so hubby didn't have to get up to him. He then got up at 7am had a nice feed and is a happy bunny today!!
Felt a bit brutal letting him cry but he did seem to get the message. Will see how it goes tonight......

Crazycatlady Fri 03-Apr-09 13:10:29

Well done Sykes! We're thinking of doing exactly the same thing as DD just isn't taking proper feeds at night but snacking her way through the early hours and into the morning, then not really hungry for the first part of the day either, argh...

Glad to hear your first night went well, I'm quite nervous about tonight, but I think it has to be worth a try to see if she'll fall into a new (more sleep friendly) pattern.

Let us know how you get on x

Sykes29 Sat 04-Apr-09 09:11:06

How did it go last night crazycatlady? My lo did even better lastnight - I can't believe this is working so far!!! He went to sleep at 8.45pm, woke at 12.30am and hubby went in 2 times so calm him down as he put on a good old screaming show again. This time back to sleep in about 15 minutes though. Then he didn't wake again until 3.45am!!!! Gave him a big feed and nappy change and put him back down and then he only woke once more between 4.30am and 7.30am and again he cried for less than 5 mins and put himself back to sleep without us going in. What's more, when I went in to check on him at 7.45 this morning he was awake in his cot and not crying!!! First time ever as he usually cries the minute he wakes up. I really hope this lasts - I feel like a new woman!!

Crazycatlady Sun 05-Apr-09 13:53:29

Oh that's great Sykes, it's amazing what just a little bit more sleep can do for you!

We've had two slightly better nights after a hideous Thursday night, but DD has still ended up in bed next to me some time around midnight but last night only woke for feeds at 12.30 and 4.15 after a short and very sleepy dreamfeed at 10.30. She was ready to start her day at 5.45 though, argh!

We've decided to really concentrate on the daytime naps and feeds in the hope that getting that sorted will help overall with the nights if she's going to bed having had enough food and not overtired. It's hard work but she's napped really well this morning and is just a joy to be around at the moment, so it's clear she really does need those daytime naps.

Fingers crossed for another good night for you.

Sykes29 Sun 05-Apr-09 21:56:57


Had a really good night last night but he's been a little horror today, especially this evening. He has been screaming blue murder and has been hysterical - it's been a nightmare!! Finally got him off to sleep at 9pm and off to bed myself now. Have a feeling tonight isn't going to go so well as couldn't do any of the bedtime routine (i.e. bath, massage etc) as he was too upset. 2 steps forward, 1 step back seems to be the story with this little one.

Sykes29 Mon 06-Apr-09 08:52:42

He was actaulyl alright last night afterall. Slept from 9pm-3.30am and then from 4.30am-7.30am. I thinhk we may have cracked it for now. Let me know how you are getting on.

bippyhippy Mon 06-Apr-09 15:09:18

I'm not sure what the answer is. I have been following the Sleepytot Blogand I'm sure the lady on that has got an easy baby! Ha!

One thing she does say is that putting your baby down to sleep awake is the most important thing. So maybe you could try not rocking your baby to sleep? I've found the advice on there useful - better than the books because at least it's real!

mosschops30 Mon 06-Apr-09 15:16:25

I dont get lots of this, but Im pretty old school and dont believe in co-sleeping etc.

IMHO you need to stop the co-sleeping, and why are you rocking your baby to sleep?? I have a friend who's child at 5 will still not sleep without her stroking him ...bizarre, sorry but children need to learn to fall asleep on their own.
Swaddling was my godsend, i used to wrap ds up like a little worm and he would drop off in minutes (daytime too)
Hope you sort it out

Crazycatlady Mon 06-Apr-09 17:11:09

Well she only gets rocked gently to settle her down, then she gets a little cuddle and down in the cot dozy with eyes closed but not completely asleep IYSWIM. I then just hold a hand on her chest until she's off.

If I put her down completely awake (I've tried it many times), she just stays awake, playful for an hour or so then starts to whinge. She'd stay like that all day (and all night) if I let her so I do need to help her get to sleep for now - she's only 12 weeks afterall.

Swaddling just seems to make her angry, and she won't take a dummy now either (which I don't really mind).

We've been working on getting her to nap however we can at the moment to make sure she's not overtired, then as off the Easter weekend (when DH will be around more to help for a good few days and nights) we are going to work on getting her to nap in her cot and stay in her own bed at night! We know she can do it as she sleeps in her own cot from 7.30pm until her first night feed at about 11.30pm it's just helping her to do it the rest of the time that we need to work on!

Crazycatlady Mon 06-Apr-09 17:19:32

p.s. glad to hear things are going better Sykes smile

Sykes29 Wed 08-Apr-09 10:36:33

How have the last few nights been CCL? We had a terrible night last night. Hubby and me must have got up about 9 or 10 times between us. I'm knackered!!

Crazycatlady Wed 08-Apr-09 10:50:31

You poor thing! I think that will be us over the Easter break though when we start working on DD staying in her cot all night.

At the moment I'm just trying to get her as much sleep as possible, however possible, so it's long walks in the buggy during the day and some cosleeping at night.

Last night she did well - went down at 7.30 after her last feed, then again at 10.30 after dreamfeed. But the she was up at 11.30 so I put her next to me and she slept until 6.50am - albeit punctuated with a few short slurps of boob here and there throughout the night - but no proper feeds so it's obviously a comfort thing now more than a need for food. A habit we can break I'm sure with a bit of concerted effort on mine and DH's part from Thursday night onwards - not looking forward to it at all!

What do you think caused your bad night last night? It's two steps forward one step back I think... normal I reckon, but frustrating all the same.

StarlightMcEggzie Wed 08-Apr-09 10:52:27

mosschops Your friend 5 year old is not a result of rocking to sleep at just weeks old.

Children do not not need to be taught how to fall asleep, unless you believe they never slept in the womb.

Babies fall asleep when they feel safe. As they grow older and get used to world around them and learn that their mother still exists when not in sight they can feel safe in her absence.

Boobz Thu 09-Apr-09 21:35:18

Thinking of you tonight CCL - here's hoping LO gets your drift quickly, and you and DH can drift off as well!


Crazycatlady Fri 10-Apr-09 20:52:36

Hi Boobz!

Well last night was a disaster of two hourly wakings but not really hungry then up for the day at 5 and not hungry until 7.30 argh...

Started on a new System today, as recommended by our sleep consultant, and just did our first successful Pick Up Put Down to get her ladyship off to sleep at 7.30 and IT WORKED.

A loooong night ahead methinks, while she gets used to not being fed back to sleep every time and being settled back in her cot rather than coming in with us. I'm going to dreamfeed at 10.30 then not feed her again until at least 2.30, then not again before 6. Expecting a few wake ups in between which will be hard as we'll be PUPD again, probably for AGES.

Hope your little lady is still being an angel xx

Sykes29 Sat 11-Apr-09 08:13:40

Hi CCL. how did it go last night? after the initial success of our first few nights of PUPD last week things have not gone quite so well, but there is still a definate improvement. 2 steps forward, one step back....

hotcrosspurepurple Sat 11-Apr-09 08:22:50

I would just like to say that it does get better!
DD was like this as a baby, would wake up every couple of hours. I was bloody knackered.
She is now 12 and won't get out of bed now!

Crazycatlady Sat 11-Apr-09 17:33:11

Thanks HCPP! How quickly does it get better? I hope before 12 years wink...!

Sykes we had an okish time of it last night. PUPD worked to resettle her when she woke at 9pm and 11.30pm (did a DF at 10.30 but she didn't take much). Fed at 1am as she was starving by then, and she resettled in cot easily.

Then at 3am it went a bit wrong... she woke, hungry again and PUPD was just winding her up. I was then exhausted, and she also sounded like she had a bad sore throat and stuffy nose. Not wanting to sleep train a sick baby I put her down to sleep next to me for the rest of the night. So it's progress, no matter how small.

Today has been ok, PUPD didn't work for first nap of the day so she's had 3 naps in buggy. Feeding going well. Will do PUPD for bedtime settling then see how she goes overnight. She does have a slight sore throat/cold so don't want to push it.

Hope you have a better night tonight. It's normal to get some regression isn't it? Frustrating though...

Sykes29 Mon 13-Apr-09 16:17:00

How's it going CCL? We had another terrible night last night. Hubby eneded up in the spare room from 3am and had a lay in until 11am this morning. Lucky him. I on the other hand was up every hour or 2 all night and when I did get to bed I couldn't sleep. Have so far managed to grab about an hour today when lo was napping.

I need sleep!!!

Crazycatlady Mon 13-Apr-09 17:22:19

Oh no, poor you Sykes. Why couldn't your H help you a bit more last night? Were you feeding every wake up?

After two terrible nights we had a slightly better one last night - just as many wake ups but DD is getting better at settling herself now we're teaching her what to do.

- she went to bed at 7,
-dreamfeed at 10.30 (which after some perseverance she's starting to take more at),
- woke at midnight and settled herself after two mins with H sitting by her cot
- woke at 2.30am for feed - good feed
- woke at 4 - same as midnight
- started day at 6.15

So not too bad really. Starting to get some good daytime naps and spacing out feeds a bit during the day so she's properly hungry and taking a full feed. Seems to be helping the overall situation. Expecting some setbacks though, have got the night fear already!

GirlWithTheMouseyHair Mon 13-Apr-09 21:41:47

keep going CCL, you're doing a great job. Hope she starts to get better soon - thinking of you

Sykes29 Tue 14-Apr-09 16:23:02

No, hubby is usually pretty good but I got to the point where I couldn't sleep so I said he may as well sleep in another room as there was no point us both lying there awake all night! I didn't feed every wake up. Am trying really hard to only feed at bedtime, one feed in the night and then one feed when he gets up, although is very tempting to just feed him sometimes and not have to go through the PUPD and the crying!

Glad you had a better night and that DD is getting better at settling herself. Sounds like you are doing all the right things and glad it is paying off. How was last night?

I managed to get a couple of hours sleep before he woke last night and then a fair buit of broken sleep for the rest of the night. Also went back to bed when he has his first nap this morning, which ended up being 2 hours long (!) so I got about 1 and a half hours sleep then. Planning on going to bed early again tonight but still feels odd to go to bed at 9/10pm. I am by nature a proper night owl.

Good luck for the rest of the week! He's getting Christened this Sunday and I must admit I'm dreading it! Spirited baby who likes a good scream and all those people watchign and expecting him to be all cute - uh-oh!!

Crazycatlady Tue 14-Apr-09 20:20:26

I know how tempting it is to feed... but I'm holding on to the hope that the PUPD will get less and less as time goes on, as long as we're consistent.

DD does certainly seem to be learning. But then we've got jabs at the end of this week, then I'm expecting the dreaded 4 month growth spurt to start, so who knows what will happen next... just when I'm getting used to one feed per night...

Last night was excellent, DD woke at 1am and settled herself within a minute or two, fed at 2.30, then stayed asleep until 6. Oddly, I felt WORSE today for having some slightly unbroken sleep. I guess that's normal, but mildly depressing.

I never know what to do about early nights - since I dreamfeed every night at 10.30/11ish I never feel like it's worth bothering going to bed at 9. Probably should though.

Good luck with the Christening. I'm sure the congregation won't mind a few screams! He may surprise you and be so interested in his surroundings and being the centre of attention that it doesn't occur to him to make a fuss. Glad you got a bit of rest today.

Sykes29 Thu 16-Apr-09 10:45:07

Yay!!!! Just when I thought I couldn't bear it any longer, DS only woke up 3 times last night!!! He went to bed at 9pm (thought we'd try later and see what happened), woke at about midnight and about 1 and had a bit of a cry but settled after about 20 minutes each time. Then he slept through until 6.30am!!! My boobs were bursting when I woke up! He then had a feed and went straight back to sleep until 9.30. Wow!!! I think it was possibly cos he had his injections yesterday but we'll see how he goes tonight. How was your night CCL?

Crazycatlady Thu 16-Apr-09 12:54:06

Brilliant, glad things were better last night. Even if you have more bad nights, having the odd not so bad night does really help you to cope.

DD went to bed at 7.30, I dreamfed her at 11, then she didn't wake until 2.15. Trying to space out the night feeds a bit so did PUPD for 15 mins and she went back to sleep until 3, fed her, then she went back to sleep until 6.30.

So we have made huge progress... also getting some good results with daytime naps now, they're short (30-40 mins), but she's settling herself in her cot (after 10 mins or so of fussing and the odd bit of PUPD). Then we're getting her some longer naps after lunch in the buggy.

Downside of trying to space out these feeds is I too have busting boobs and a bit of pinkness in the right hand side this morning so really trying to stave off the dreaded mastitis, argh...

Sykes29 Sat 18-Apr-09 10:31:59

Good stuff CCL - sounds like things are definately moving in the right direction. How are the boobs? I hope you've managed to stave off mastitis.

We had a great night last night. DS went to sleep at 9pm (seems to be a much better bedtime for him), woke at 12.30am and had a bit of a cry, but hubby only had to go in once, then he woke at 3.15am and had a feed and then slept through until 8am!!! Bliss!

Crazycatlady Tue 15-Dec-09 20:41:45

Just trawling through old threads and wanted to add a bit of closure in case there are any mums of newborns going through sleep hell.

After four nights of using PUPD and spacing feeds, DD was sleeping like an angel and only waking for one night feed, hence I stopped posting! It took us a couple of weeks to sort the daytime naps, but it was worth the effort. She started taking 45 mins in the morning, 2 hours at lunch and 30 mins late afternoon after 2 weeks of doing PUPD to help her settle in her cot and to extend her naps when she woke still tired.

I am glad we coslept for the first few weeks and that we did a gentle form of sleep training quite early on, and DD has been a good sleeper ever since. I have to caveat this by saying that she has been through a phase of wanting to start her day at 6am (and sometimes 5.30 shock but she slept through the night consistently from 5 and a half months.

I know you can never count your chickens on the sleep front but, for now, at 11 months, she's down to one 2 hour nap at lunchtime and is sleeping 7pm to 7am like a dream. So hold on mums of newborns, it does get better, but when you need help I can highly recommend the Baby Sleep Answers website which I had brilliant support and advice from.

Mummytolucas09 Tue 05-Jan-10 14:29:26

My little boy is almost 12 weeks old and was doing this till around 8 weeks old. He seemed to like having lots of room to fling his arms and legs about, if he was swaddled or in his sleep bag, he'd wake up seeming frustrated. We found it was the tight space so he is now in a cot in our bedroom. We bat him at 9pm and then feed him and he goes in his cot, awake or not by around 9.30. We are using infacol through out the day and night. It might be an idea to supplement with bottle feeds during the day. My baby was 8lb 12oz when he was born and breast alone was not enough for him. I also had a traumatic birth, being an army wife in Germany, they tend not to use pain relief unless its an emergancy so i went through a 23 hour labour with no pain relief, baby got stuck for 3 hours and the doctors ended up using fundal pressure to get him out. He was exactly as you describe your baby for around 4 weeks. Establishing a routine is what everyone says but just do what you think is right. I let him sleep when he needs to during the day. Get a play mat and try and tire her out a bit, take her round the house cleaning with you. Ive done this since the birth of my son and he now sleeps from around 9.30pm till around 5, has a feed, then straight back to sleep till around 8/9. It sounds like your daughter is bored, and frustrated. Try a play mat, books, rattles etc. At 11 weeks old your baby will not be sleeping every 2 hours, maybe if shes having a growth spirt, but at 11 weeks old, they should be awake for around 3-4 hours at a time with small naps inbetween. Hope this helps.

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