Oh my god I'd forgotten how hard this is

[iwouldgoouttonight]

Our beautiful DD was born on Tuesday just after midnight and since then we have had 3 hours sleep in total. DS (now 2.5 years) was very similar in that he'd feed and then just wouldn't be put down so we had to spend the nights rocking him, carrying him, etc and as soon as we tried to put him down he'd be wide awake and screaming.

DD appears to be the same! We all went to bed at 9pm and have had no sleep since then so have given up and come downstairs. She's fed a couple of times, fallen asleep straight after and as soon as I move her she's wide awake again. She's asleep on me at the minute but each time I try toput her down she's wide awake again. She's swaddled up, we've tried keeping her in our bed, but nothing is working.

I am just soooooooooo tired and just want to cry. Does help that my milk has just come in and one side in particular is really painful and its agony to lie down. DD doesn't want to feed from that side and I've tried to express a bit first but can't get anything out.

Anyway I'm sure everyone else is asleep, just wanted to write everything down to make me feel better.

[WhatSheSaid]

Congratulations on your dd.

Sorry you are getting no sleep though! I can't think of any constructive advice, assuming she's fed, winded, clean nappy etc etc. My dd always hated being swaddled, I had to stop attempting to do it. Do you have anything you can rock her in? Hammock/pram etc?

Anyway, I didn't want you to go unanswered, especially as I too am a Smiths lyric .

[pudding25]

Congratulations. Not sure what to do with the sleep but have you tried standing under a hot shower and hand expressing? I got recommended to do that on here when I had a blocked duct and it worked. Be careful if it is sore.

[Ellibop]

Firstly Congratulations!

My DS was just like this (he's now 9 months)and after days with very little sleep I started sleeping with him on my chest as it was the only way he would stay asleep and I was nodding off holding him anyway out of sheer exhaustion.

It's amazing how quickly you forget the difficulties of the early weeks - it all seems like a different world to me now. I hope things start to improve soon, I'm sure they will.

[MrsMattie]

Congrats on the arrival of your DD. It's knackering, isn't it? And you do forget just how knckering (I have a 3.11 yr old and a 9 wk old).

No advice (I am not sleep expert - my DS didn't sleep a full night until he was 2 and a half!) but just wanted to send hugs your way. In a couple of weeks time, when your milk has settled in, maybe you could try expressing and taking turns to do the nightshift with your DH?

Oh, and sounds like you may have a blocked milk duct. Have you tried putting hot flannels on it just before you feed? If you can feel any lumps in your breast, where you suspect the blocked duct may be, it's also helpful to stand under a hot shower (as hot as you can bear) and massage or (weird, but works!) use a comb to comb downwards along the breast towards the nipple. It can help to ease blocked ducts.

Hope you feel better and get some sleep soon x

[claireybrations]

Both of mine were like that too. DD improved by 8 weeks, ds took quite a
bit longer but we got there in the end!

Only thing that got us through it with ds was I would go to bed when dd did and dh would keep ds downstairs (bringing him to me for feeds if needed)until 11/12, then I would take over until 6am ish then dh would have him for an hour or so before going to work. Is anything like that possible for you?

To begin with I got no sleep but then started to be able to sleep half sitting in bed with ds on top of me in between the screaming/pacing up and down sessions!

Hope it improves soon for you

Oh and agree hot bath/shower and massage should help your boob

[iwouldgoouttonight]

Thank you - everyone goes through it but I had forgotten just how knackering it is! DP and I did shifts last night, I went to bed about half eight and he brought DD up at about 11pm for a feed and then I came down so he could get some sleep and we swapped over again at about 3am. Seemed to work as we both got about 5 hours sleep in total each which is a huge improvement - I feel almost human today. Lets hope it works again tonight (DS was an angel as he let us lie in until 9am and didn't shout us to get him up or anything - not sure that will happen every night though!)

Pain had eased in boob - it was bright red and lumpy but now have managed to get DD to feed from it if I express a tiny bit first. Such a relief!

Our main concern now is that DD doesn't appear to be weeing - her nappies are dry, not had to change her since this morning. Midwife has told us to keep an eye on it, didn't seem too concerned as she has done some poos, but I seem to remember having to change nappies about 8-10 times a day with DS so it seems very odd that DD is only doing a couple of poos a day and thats it. She seems to be feeding very well and not in any pain so its strange.

There's always something to worry about isn't there??!

[spottyshoes]

Oh I wish I hadn't opened this thread! My DS was exactly the same for the first 4 mths. DC2 is due in a few weeks and I have convinced myself that there is no way a 2nd baby would be the same [ostrich emoticon]

He was breech for the last 2 mths of pg so I put it down to the fact he was just an upright baby! We resorted to sleeping sitting propped up with DS on our chest, he eventually converted to sleeping lying down but with my nipple permanently in his mouth! Nothing else worked but he did grow out of it.

You have my sympathies, hope you get some sleep soon x

[luvaduck]

I feel your pain!! my ds was the same - i remember reading that newborns sleep 156 hours day - my ds was def not one of them - 4 hours more like!

The below is cut and pasted from an email i sent to a friend recently with another sleepless baby - i haven't typed it all out here as it is LONG! hope some of it helps

here goes

1)Tank him up in day. make sure you are feeding at least 3 hourly and try cluster feeding in the early evening eg 2 hourly. Louis used to do a mass feedathon for about 2 hours in the evening - just go with it - its building up your supply. Make sure you burp him after he falls asleep at the boob and then offer the other side before putting him down, as often a burp means theres room for more milk so he feels hungry again.

2)White noise. Try a radio between two stations quietly in background or you can buy special white noise cds. Apparently the prince lionheart slumber bear plus is very good.

3)Swaddling - esp if startle reflex wakes him up. Be careful not to overheat - swaddle counts as a blanket. Mothercare does a good miracle swaddle blanket. Think we swaddled up to about 3 months then he went into a sleeping bag. I used to be paranoid it would come up over his face if he fought out of it, so we used to twist the end and tuck under mattress and make sure top was really secure.

4)Put something in the cot that smells of you - tucked in securely of course so he can't pull it over himself. We had two swaddle blankets and i used to sleep on one, one night and alternate them. Or tuck it down your top for a few hours.

5) Try letting him suck on your little finger to settle him and slowly withdraw just as hes dropping off - slow is the key. prob wouldn't recommend a dummy until a month I've seen it interfere with breastfeeding.

6) shh pat this was the key for us. Either lie him on his back and pat his tummy gently and rhythmically saying shh shh sh shh over again. He will settle - it took over an hour the first night! Or on his side and pat his bum but obv put him back on his back to when hes asleep. He would fall asleep quicker and quicker each night. When he woke up do the same every night. Eventually he would fall asleep with us just saying shh shh.

7) If he falls asleep in your arms try and transfer him to cot as quietly as poss - do it in stages so he doesn't realise you're doing it. maybe warm the sheet with hot water bottle, and take it away just before he goes down
shh -pat him if he wakes up.

8) Just do what you can to get him to sleep in these early days. don't worry about making a rod for your own back with rocking him to sleep etc. if you believe gina ford (who has never had a baby!) then all babies would fall asleep by themselves immediately and sleep for two hours at lunch time. in her first edition of her book it says to acheive this meant leaving a newborn to cry for up to 2 hours so they are trained! this has been edited out of recent edition as caused too much fuss.

babies apparently don't respond to routine until they are about 3 months as they can't remember it- so by all means do bath, bedtime routine etc but its more for getting you into the habit to start with. so don't worry if you have no routine to start with - just go with the flow - it will come. (even we had a routine at 3 months albeit a very rough one)

9)Try and make sure he doesn't get overtired as he can then be more difficult to settle. Newborns get tired after about 1 and half hours of being awake. This stretched to about 2 hours at 6-8 weeks. I would make sure he has a decent nap in the morning - by having him in the sling or taking him out in the pram, then after he has been awake about an hour and half watch the signs carefully - if he seem to withdraw, rub eyes or cry - hes tired, so try putting him down and do shh pat etc

phew!

[babaduck]

luvaduck, can I ask you a question? You know the shh pat thing, well I have an appallingly bad sleeper, (and I thought DD1 was a bad sleeper, not like this she wasn't!) wakes approx 6 to 10 times a night, to be fed and then rocked to sleep, a complete nightmare, but I really can't do the cry-it-out thing. Am doing the bath book breast bed routine, watching for naps etc but getting nowhere. Is there much crying with the shh pat thing? Is she too old for it?

Sorry iwouldgoouttonight, didn't mean to hijack your thread. Well done on your lovely DD, my own DD wasn't too much different, have sympathy by the bucket load for you. It's tough work. Watch for those wet nappies they are important. Be obsessive about the latch, keep feeding. It is soo hard at the beginning, but you'll be surprised how these days will pass quickly. They will.

[luvaduck]

babaduck how old is she?

we did shh pat when ds was about 4 weeks and it worked in about half an hour first night (feels like ages), then much less each time we did it. We still do it occasionally at 16 months - he tends to cry less when we do it as well so it obviously soothes him.

[bohemianbint]

huge sympathies, DS1 was the same, thought we were going to de of sleep deprivation, it was so hard and really took it's toll on the pair of us. If DS2 had been the same I dunno what we'd have done.

But - if it's any consolation, once DS1 hit 4 months (I know, long time, but it'll pass!) he suddenly starting sleeping as per Gina Ford's timetable with only a bit of tweaking, we never had to leave him to cry and he started sleeping 7-7 with just the one feed in the middle, and 2 hours in the day, up until recenlty as well!

DS2, much much easier, but we have co-slept and I've fed on demand this time - have you tried co-sleeping? I think a lot of this sleep business comes down to personality at the end of the day and you just have to try and survive it. I hope things get easier soon!

[babaduck]

luvaduck, she's 10 months. And I still can't believe DD2 is a worse sleeper than DD1. Was just up to her again. Sounds like she might be a bit old for shh pat do you think?

[babaduck]

iwouldgoout, was your DS ever diagnosed with reflux? Our DD1 slept a bit if we sat up with her, as soon as we put her flat she was awake and screaming. We did it for 4 months, and my GP said it was worth a trial of reflux meds. Tried her on Zantac, 2 days later, a different child, never the greatest of sleepers but it ended the crying all day, and if we were lucky we could lie her down. It's too early to say, but bear it in mind if your DD doesn't settle. My DD1 is 3years now, a grand sleeper.

[luvaduck]

maybe give it a go?
or how about pick/put down - baby whisperer method - think thats for four months plus. haven't done it but read on here it can work wonders.

now if someone can tell me how to stop my 16 mo waking up twice a night for a bf then that would be fab.... (and not controlled crying am too soft)

[mamamama]

I know what it's like! My DD has only recently started going through (2 years and 9 months), my DS (9 months) wakes a couple of times a night. I seem to remember that I just slept with him on my chest too the first few weeks.

Have a look at the No Cry Sleep Solution - it's a fab book that never makes you feel guilty and has gentle ways of helping your baby sleep better, including if you co-sleep.

[poshsinglemum]

Congrats. I remember feeding constantly in the evenings which I later found out was totally normal in bf babies adn called cluster feeding. I just fed her to sleep. In a tiny baby I didn't have a routine. That came later. Mabe co-sleep? Then everyone can snuggle together in the same bed.

[pbo]

If it's any help, my DD was the same, the only way she'd stop crying was if someone had their little finger in her mouth and she'd suck like crazy even if she'd just been feeding for the last hour. She just really needed to suck. She found her thumb at 7 wks and we've had our fingers back for 2 weeks now! At night I'd stand with my finger in her mouth until she was asleep then I'd slowly pull it out, sometimes she'd stay, sometimes she'd start screaming so I'd do it again. Eventually she'd go to sleep for a couple of hours. If you don't mind her in your bed you can fall asleep while she's sucking and by the time your finger falls out she's asleep
Of course, this is only relevant if yours has a massive sucking reflex like mine ...just thought I'd add my bit

I hope you're all sleeping better now though, I'm a bit late on this one!!

[oysterpots]

How about the Moffii hammock thing? Am dreading the first few weeks with my second dc but have all hopes pinned on that!

[jchr]

luvaduck - regarding still feeding at night a friend of mines lo similar age was waking for feeds still at night. She was bottle feeding but her hv suggested replacing milk with water and apparently within a couple of nights it worked her lo knew if they woke they wouldn't get milk! not sure how you would do this if bf but thought that might help?!