2 year old sleeping in strange position - help

[tichey]

Hello,

4 nights ago, our 2.3 year old daughter decided to sit up in her bed, and refuse to lie down all night long.

The first three nights we did strict contolled crying, coming in to her room, putting her back into sleeping position, and walking straight back out again. This has not worked and she just ends up sitting straight back up again and having small catnap sleeps of about 20 minutes.

We have also removed all her treats and told her she won't get them back or have other treats until she sleeps on her back.

We have also since yesterday bought the grobag first duvet (she already sleeps in a grobag sleeping bag) with a zip in the hope that this would also keep her lying down. That has not worked either as she has managed to get out of it.

We have now told her that we won't go into her room at all over night as we are sleeping and that is what she should be doing too.

Does anyone have other ideas of what we can do? She has always been a brilliant sleeper sleeping 12 hours every night, and I don't want her to get in the habit of spending all night sitting up?
thank you.

[funnypeculiar]

When you say she refused to lie down all night long, did she sleep? If so, how (why does she have to slepp on her back?)

Clearly something has triggered this - any idea what (classic age for getting scared of the dark for example...)

[MrsHappy]

If this was my daughter I would think she was doing it for the attention.
I would be inclined to ignore her and leave her to it. I bet she gets bored soon.

[smellen]

Is there something stressing her during the day?

Has she perhaps recently become aware of something that frightens her at night (our DS was freaked out once by some "watching eyes" in a Noddy book - and thought they were in his room at night...)

Does she have a nightlight?

Could you try a positive reward system (rather than withdrawing treats) - e.g. star chart, or five minutes of Beebies for everyhour she sleeps lying down in her bed, making a cake with you if she sleeps all night, etc.)

Could you stick florescent stars on her ceiling, so she can lie back and look at them?

Could you take her out and get her choose a new soft toy who she might like to have "for a sleepover"?

IMHO I think at just over 2 she is too young to be wilfully manipulative or naughty - perhaps she wants attention or reassurance. I wouldn't want to leave my DS alone all night if I thought they were having problems sleeping as I would be worried that this might exacerbate their anxieties.

[seeker]

If she's asleep does it matter if she's doing it in a bizarre position? Or do you mean she's sitting up and refusing to sleep? Bit confused - sorry!

[pamplemousse]

Are you sure her ears aren't hurting as lying down makes them more painful? Or something else hurting? I know 2 year olds are awkward, my dd is 2.2, but ime not all night!
As you say she's always been a great sleeper so something must be on her mind...
Is she scared of the dark? My dd suddenly decided she was about 2 months ago...
Or as someone else has said maybe if she's not hurting in some way she just wants attntion, and just ignore her??
Hmmm hope you sort it

[tichey]

Hi,

Thanks for all your messages.

I have tried positive rewards too, but she has no interest in that, even though she understands she will get lovely things if she sleeps properly.

She was ill with a bad cold over christmas, but is now completely recovered and has not reacted like this before when ill.

The first two nights, she did not sleep at all because we were doing controlled crying and could hear her all night and were going in so often. The second two nights, she slept for short periods because she would go quiet for about 20 minutes - 40 minutes and then cry out. When she is asleep, she is basicially in a sitting position, with her head slumped against her cot bars - very uncomfortable looking and I am worried that it cannot be good for her to sleep sitting up all night in short bursts...

She does not do upset crying - jsut shouts mama, mama over and over again whilst she is awake which is why over the last two nights we have not been in at all as she is not really distressed. I also think she wants our attention, but it has been 4 nights now, two of which she has had no attention at all, and the other two, just putting her back into sleeping position and then straight back out again of the room.

I cannot think of anything that has happened that might make her afraid of the dark or afraid of anything in her room. We have kept the light on in the corridor so she has some comfort there and she understands that we are in the room next door...

I like the idea of putting something on her ceiling. I will do that...My main worry is that she develops a habit of sleeping sitting up like this

[tichey]

Sorry - I have just seen the two additional messages.

The problem the first two nights is that she did not sleep at all - just stayed sitting up all night saying mama, mama.

The problem these last two nights is that she is getting some sleep, but only in short bursts, and sitting up, and she then wakes up shouts a bit for about 30-mins to 1hr, then falls asleep again for a short period and then it all starts over again.

The ear thing is interesting as she has had a mild ear infection as well as a cold and is on antibiotics for that, but she has had ear infections before and she did not do it then...

[funnypeculiar]

Pamplemousse's ear suggestion is a very very good one - ime even a very willful 2 year old (I have one!) can't stay awake all night without good reason. Would make sense of the sitting position and the frequent waking ... plus more common post cold.

Have you tried asking her in the day time when you're both calm why she isn't sleeping? My ds's sleep went bonkers at about this age -took us a while to discover he had somehow scared himself with the idea of a lady who came into his room at night. We did some toddler style exorcism, and all pretty much sorted.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about her sleeping sitting up if she was comfy - but she clearly ain't. I would focus (assuming ears are OK) on sleeping rather than position, though (choose your battles & all that )

[funnypeculiar]

Oh, and the 30mins to an hour waking cycle - that's a single sleep cycle, ie when you naturally come back into a light sleep. If she's uncomfortable, she'll wake up rather than naturally resettle.

[tichey]

Thanks everyone for your messages and some really good advice. I will go out and get a night light, stars for the ceiling and also some rewards charts for us to choose together.

Unfortunately, she is not speaking very much at the moment. We are bringing her up bilingually, and although she understands both langauges perfectly, she wont be able to explain to me what the problem is...

I agree that sleep is the most important thing so perhaps until we are sure her ears have cleared up, I will try to make her cot sides more comfortable for her....

[pamplemousse]

Hope ears are OK and sleep is resumed!
Stars on ceiling a great idea.
Best of luck with it

[funnypeculiar]

Aha, yes, I forget that I have freakish early talkers too - they have always both had a tendency to verbalise

Hope that it's something nice & simple like ears for you

Another alternatives if cc doesn't seem to work, would be gradual withdrawal - so stay with her, and slowly move away from her (usually this happens over days rather than over one night, but if she's been fine beofre you might be able to escalate things. Imo cc 'works' for some children but for others a more softly softly approach can catch the monkey easier & quicker

[anon786]

Just a thought on the ears thing... I had water on my middle ear some years ago, which was the result of glandular fever, and for a couple of weeks I had to sleep sitting up as it felt like my head was going to explode if I lay down... does your DD lie down any other time, like if you were playing a game with her, or tickling her ? Maybe see if being horizontal at all is bad for her rather than just at night.

[NumptyMum]

How about trying her with a couple of pillows, so she's semi-propped up? no idea whether this will work as have never had this problem with DS (16mo), but he's very happy with his pillow, loves flinging himself on it.

[CeceliaAhern]

Will probably not be well received but here goes.

Give her a cuddle. Cuddle her to sleep if need be. She needs reassurance- she is but a baby.

[pamplemousse]

We all want our babies to be happy CA, I don't think commenting that it might not be well received is very pleasant. Do you think we don't cuddle our little ones and leave them to scream not knowing why?!

[CeceliaAhern]

No, pamplemousse, I don't think that.
No one else on the thread had said what I thought, but I assumed it was not restricted to supporters of cc.
As I am sure you have already figured out, I am not a huge fan of cc as a way to get children to sleep and believe there are other ways.
I am not imposing my choice on the OP, simply suggesting that there are other ways to approach this.Isn't this what the OP asked for advice on?
I cannot imagine that the present situation is good for anyone. If it were me, and especially if questioning illness, I would let the child go to sleep however they saw fit.
I understand that children always try it on a bit after the attention lavished on them when they have been ill,but she is hardly even 2!
I do believe everyone will get a better, safer, more comfortable sleep going along with whatever the little one needs right now. It won't be forever.

[pamplemousse]

FWIW I totally agree with you, I don't like cc either. It was just the way you put it which riled me!