NEW Support thread for those non sleeping toddlers 18-24 months!!

[andyrobo237]

Just thought I would start a support thread -no hostility in here, jsut good old plain advice and friendly support for all us suffering with poor sleeping kiddies!

DS is 21 months and luckily I can get him to start the night in his cot, and he sleeps for 3-5 hours on his own, and then he wakes up asking for me, so for an easy life, and yes I like the snuggles, he comes in with us. He will then sleep until 7am when we get up. He eats ok and has one sort nap in the day (less than an hour), and has a run around after tea, and then we do the following (for we read I as DH is a waste of space!):

Between 6 - 6.30pm bath with big sister - lots of fun and splashing and have to prize him out

6.30 - 6.45 he is given his beaker of milk downstairs and he drinks what he likes

6.45 - 7pm he goes in his grobag on my knee and we read, he snuggles and has more of his milk - sometimes drinks it all, or leaves a bit

7pm - take him to his room - he happily goes. I put him in cot, kiss, and then sit in the chair in his room with low light, no speaking (I read a book) and within 10 mins he is asleep

7.10 or so - creep out, pull door to and go downstairs to DD who is 6

I used to have a bath around 9 to 9.30 but he would always wake after that, so I have a quick shower after their bath, so I dont disturb him!

He has been waking around 12am these past few days, previously it was 10.30 to 11 ish, so at least we have gained an hour of peace! He wakes up stands up in cot and shouts for me, which if you ignore becomes a cry and sobbing, which fortunately doesnt wake his sister usually. I then bring him into our bed and he settles until 6.30 to 7am, when we get up.

He is not tired when we get up and we get up the same time every day even weekends as DD has early morning activities. I just cant get him to stay in his own bed longer. Have tried the early evening routime again (without the milk) and he does appear to go back to sleep, but when I move he springs up!!!

THis is not as bas as what some people have to cope with, but it is not what we want, I needmy sleep and prefer to have half a kingsize bed not the corner!

We will support eachother and get these toddlers to sleep better!!!

[Lurcio]

My DD is 18months, she is still bf to sleep which I know is a rod for my own back etc
My problem is that due to lack of bedrooms, she still shares my room, so I disturb her in the night. I also am a sucker for the snuggles, but as I'm single there's plenty of room for her in my bed, and she sleeps so well when she's in with me...

I have found that tucking a certain (fairly heavy) teddy against her seems to fool her into thinking I still have my hand against her. Also 'shhh'ing seems to help, getting gradually quieter as her breathing becomes more relaxed.

[otoh]

oh, dd is like this. I'm not bothered tbh (so perhaps not in need of a support thread,now I think about it . . .). but just to let you know there's plenty more like your toddler out there. dd doesn't nap during the day either. my kids just don't 'do' sleep

[nappyaddict]

Have you tried wake to sleep?

[ches]

DS 21 mo is the same way -- sleep in his cot (side car style) and comes in with me when I go to bed. I like the cuddles, but could do with less waking to nurse, however am not in the least bit interested in the pains of night weaning. He was an early walker, is quite advanced with his speech, so I figure this is what he's behind in and that's okay, he'll get there in time. He is also a late teether and has suffered greatly with molars and canines which are still not even out. I have noticed however in the past few weeks that when his teeth don't hurt he sleeps much better. Last night he woke every half hour after going to bed and the third time I went to bed and pulled him in with me and he slept 6 hours. That's only the second or third time in his life he's slept that long.

[Pinkjenny]

Hi andyrobo - I thought this might be you! DD is now refusing to start the night in her cot. It's a mare!

[lydiathetattooedlady]

im so glad this thread has been started! my dd (19mo) has been on and off a good sleeper 8-7 ish, but recently is getting worse and worse. before we moved we used cc which worked within a few days and wasnt as bad as i thought. but we're now in a house where you can hear light switches being switched on (i kid you not!) by next door, so cant use cc as hte nieghbours have commented several times on her waking them up in the night when she cries!
she goes down at about 7.30-8 with half a bottle of milk, will sleep til about 12 then wake up, have offered water which she drinks then asks for milk. she has a cuddle then will go back in her bed awake and go back to sleep. in all she's probably awake for about an hour. i know this doesnt sound too bad, but just found out im expecting 2nd baby and worried about being up with two!
my dd also still drinks a lot of milk, about 3-4 x 9oz a day not sure if this has anything to do withit!?

[WobblyPig]

2.1 year old DS ona good night wakes 3 times and wants to get up for good t about 5.30 am.
No problem getting to sleep but will scream blue murder unless I, and not DH, go in sit him on my knee for 1minute then put him back into cot.
I also have no 2 on the way, due May 09, and find all this palaver very tiring. Feel I could cope with anything in the day if only he would sleep.

every I know tells me their child sleeps 7-7 nad has done since they were 3 months. This is rubbing salt into the wounds.

[andyrobo237]

Hi pink - still suffering then! We will have to find a solution before I fall alseep at my desk!!! Not 'Jo Jingling' this time then? Not entirely sure DS likes it, but it fills in an hour on a Monday morning!!!

lydiathetattooedlady - very similar waking pattern there,but we have never had the long sleeps!! He does not drink a great amount of milk before bed - between 5 and 8 oz, but I dont offer it when he wakes, just tell him to sleep!! He then demands milk around 6am, which is ok!

nappyaddict - not sure I could wake him when he is asleep, but may try it next weekend!!!

We are trying a new tactic tomorrow - taking him out of his sleeping bag and just using his new duvet - eek!!! He twists himself around, and does not have much footroom to spare, so it is worth a try! Will report back!

Hi to everyone else who has posted!

[StealthPolarBear]

so glad to find this thread
too tired to post details but at my wits end with 18mo

[snickersnack]

ds was 18 months yesterday - I am so glad to find this thread as was about to post a near-to-breaking point message about how I can't do it anymore.

He has phases of being better (but has never, once, gone from 7 to 7). A good night is sleeping from 7 to 4.30, having some milk and going back to sleep until 6.

CUrrently, he's very unsettled in the early part of the night, though not really awake properly, then wakes around 2 or 3 and SCREAMS. Can't be settled in his cot, comes in to bed with us where the screaming continues until he flakes out. But then will often wake and cry again (last night I had to get up because his sister woke briefly, and all hell broke loose).

And today, to cap it all, we had a 30 minute sob-fest before his morning sleep.

I'm so very very tired and am worried that this is just becoming entrenched. I don't mind co-sleeping but it doesn't really seem to work. I'm about to lose it big time with my mother who is staying who just keeps saying "you're going to have to leave him to cry, he'll learn eventually"...we have tried cc on a couple of occasions, he doesn't learn, and it doesn't work. We all end up upset, and ds can scream for Britain when he wants to. I actually don't think I can do this for very much longer - I'm working 4 days a week, dh is travelling overseas a lot, and stress levels generally are high.

I have, I think, tried every technique going. As I'm clearly stuck with this, I think all that's left is for me to find a shoulder to cry on, which hopefully this thread will be...

[StealthPolarBear]

[nappyaddict]

andy - you don't really wake them you just gently stir them so they half open their eyes, roll over and go back to sleep.

lydia - i would cut down the milk. DS used to have 3 x 8oz bottles but i cut it down to 2 x 11 oz bottles instead which isn't really cutting down the amount but is cutting down how often he has it so he didn't rely on it for comfort too much.

[andyrobo237]

snickersnack - mothers can be right know it alls cant they - well if they know better, why dont you go out and let her try!!!

nappyaddict - not sure I could do that - I kind of know what you mean, and I remember seeing the baby whisperer programmes on sky, but not sure how it would work in practice - guess I am scared at trying it - but then what would hte worst be - just having to stick him in bed with me!!! Oh I am such a chicken!!! Will need to read that thread properly and then choose a day to try it!!! I will have a go this week!!!!!!

[ches]

snickersnack, have you tried ibuprofen? Sounds like teething (molars/canines are bloody awful).

[snickersnack]

ches, I really do think it might be teething - I can see canines under the gums, and I know dd suffered with hers.

I've managed to avoid a big row with my mother, because fortunately ds didn't have a bad night last night - woke for milk at 5 then went back to sleep until just before 7. By his standards that's pretty fantastic. So no-one had an opportunity to offer helpful advice .

andy how did you get on without the sleeping bag? I do think ds gets tangled in is (he is a huge wriggler) so maybe a duvet may be the way forward. Just seems a waste to buy a cot duvet for the next few months when he'll be in a big bed in 6 months or so.

I tried the waking him up before he wakes for a few nights a month or so ago. He is such a light sleeper that he would spring into life as soon as we went in, then be up and grumpy for 45 minutes and STILL wake at the usual time. So we abandonned it. Maybe we should have tried harder...

[nappyaddict]

snicker - my friend had to have 2 attemtps at it. the first time she gave up after 4 nights thinking it wasn't working but the second time she held out for 8 nights and it did work in the end.

[andyrobo237]

Well we had the cot bed duvet from DD, so we are using that - he didnt sleep any longer last night, but seemed settled.

May consider this wake to sleep on Friday when it is the weekend - feeling rough today - possible cold / flu!

[Pinkjenny]

I'm thinking controlled crying. Tonight. What else can I do?

Last night:

6.45pm Bath
7.00pm Bottle in my bedroom
7.30pm Bed
7.45pm Cries herself to sleep
8.10pm Awake
8.11pm Asleep
8.20pm Awake
8.25pm Asleep
9.20pm Awake and screaming at which point I put her in with me
11.05pm Screaming and completely inconsolable
11.30pm Crying on the phone to my mum because I've shouted at her
11.45pm Downstairs with her, watching Mr Tumble
1.00am Asleep
5.10am Awake
5.15am Downstairs. Again
6.00am Asleep
8.10am Awake

SO I am half an hour late for work, and we are both grumpy today. I know I should never have brought her down, but it's the only thing that calms her down. I refuse to believe it's pain or teeth as she is completely fine when we come downstairs.

I am on my knees and desperate. We need to do SOMETHING.

[TrinityRhino]

I would like to join you but I can'y cope with the thought of any children having to go through contolled crying, sorry

[Pinkjenny]

Prepare for rant:

I am completely sick of people saying this to me. What else can I do? No, I can't bear the thought of her crying either, but I also think for her to be happy and healthy, she needs some sleep. We all do. It breaks my heart to hear her cry and I resent the assumption that I am putting her through some kind of bloody ordeal.

Rant over.

[ohIdoliketobebesidethe]

I think people have different images in their mind of controlled crying.

Pinkjenny - I don't think you will be able to get anywhere without some crying. You clearly have a very determined daughter who knows she can get to watch TV once you can't bear it any longer. You need to show her that you are more stubborn than her. She will cry. You may not need to leave her to cry for huge stretches on her own. If after say 5 / 10mins you go in and lay her down saying calmly "it's bed time now" and not responding in any other way - you may get there.

BTW With our dd if we go in to her room while the corridor light is on we get into all sorts of trouble. We keep everything dark and tell her the fun is over.

[ohIdoliketobebesidethe]

pinkjenny - I also think if you add up the amount she cries every night and think about how much that adds up to. Then a few nights of more crying to save on all those tears in the future is a small price to pay.

I completely agree with you that she needs help with her sleep. You are clearly a great mother who has tried everything before resorting to crying but if that's what it takes to get her and you to sleep then so be it. You both need to sleep.

[breadandroses]

Jenny,

Can you try just carting her around with you in the day time, then co-sleeping when you go to bed.

I know you want your evenings, but atm yr not getting them anyway, so if you keep her up a bit maybe she'll fall asleep with you and sleep longer cos she has the reassurance.

I'm not explaining myself very well, but while she's so unsettled, i think you need to do something kinder to you both!

Imo, cc now would be counter productive as she still needs you to reassure her (from your posts).

Just bear in mind that SHE WILL SLEEP, and from then on you'll be shouting at her to get up out of her pit she'll be late for school/work/boyfriend etc.

I have 16 month dt's, they do not always sleep through, but my older daughters (4 and 6) always slept through reliably when they were old enough to use language and have me talk down their bedtime fears. This was prob at 2-2 1/2, so not long to go for us!

[Pinkjenny]

Breadandroses - I work 4 days a week. I'm not sure what you mean by carting her around? She's 18mo! Keeping her up just gets her completely wired, and totally unable to switch off, trust me, I've tried it . I have tried taking her to bed with me (even going to bed at 8pm myself, which makes for a great marriage btw), but she just messes about and climbs on me and puts her fingers up my nose etc etc. Co-sleeping isn't working any more, as she just doesn't want sleep! Thanks for the encouraging words that she will sleep though .

OhIdoliketobe - . Thank you. I can't think of anything else to do. I wouldn't leave her longer than 2 or 3 minutes.

See, I'm all confused again now. The Finance Director has just said to me, 'oh yes, we tried that but our ds threw up all over himself'.

[breadandroses]

Right, just re-read, no telly after "bedtime" (whatever that is). No telly just before bed.

By "carting her around" I just meant letting her stay up with you, no need to give her heaps of attention, just letting her be close to you.

If you work 4 days obv v important YOU get enough rest, so having her up may take the pressure off you?

Don't go to bed at 8pm, stop stressing about her bedtime routine, just try letting her sort of conk out (over dh's shoulder?) while he's in front of sky sports (generalising wildly).

I suppose what I'm saying is that while things are so hellish for you, you all need to find a different way of coping.