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Does your brain release a post-crying sleepy chemical?

15 replies

BroccoliSpears · 19/02/2008 14:25

I am increasingly faced with a toddler who is tired beyond all reason but won't / can't go to sleep.

Warm milk, routine, wind down, gentle cuddle, story, sleeping in mummy's bed, in her big girl's bed, in her cot, with mummy, without mummy... nothing works. Trying these things calmly and firmly and persistently doesn't work. She gets tireder and more hysterical but will not or can not go to sleep. If I could just get her down I know she'd sleep for at least 90 minutes and be so much happier for the rest of the day.

Eventually, I prise her pitiously weeping, howling, gnashing her teeth and clinging desperately from around my neck and manage to deposit her in her cot very much against her will. I leave the room. She screams and howls, big tears, rivers of snot, choking, heaving, wailing, for about 10 horrible seconds. I go back into the room, pick her up and lie on her big girl's bed with her for a comfort and cuddle. She falls asleep within 60 seconds.

Lying on her bed with her for a cuddle is obviously the first thing I try. Why won't it work unless she's been left to cry first? I hate that she has to be so distressed before she'll sleep. Hate hate hate it. It upsets me, it upsets her. Going to sleep should be a positive, happy, calm thing, not an extract from a Hammer horror.

I often feel really sleepy after I've had a good bawl too. Is there a brain chemical or some biological reason for sleeping after crying?

(I've never cried myself to sleep though, and I can't imagine her suddenly dropping off in the middle of her violent sobbing, which is something I've never really understood about crying to sleep.)

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bobsmum · 19/02/2008 14:33

Yes there is a natural sedative in tears - don't know what it's called though

Sympathy onthe grumpy toddler front - I've got a 2.5 yr old dd shouting at me right now telling me she needs a sleep, butI know as soon as we get to her room she'll turn tail and flee. We're getting to the stage where if she sleeps in the day, she's a very light sleeper at night and wakes at 5am. sO we're stopping her naps - she's not had one for a week or so now and it's slooooooowly improving. But maaan - is she grumpy by this time in the afternoon!

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BroccoliSpears · 19/02/2008 14:58

Sedative, that's the word I was after.

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BroccoliSpears · 19/02/2008 18:57

Does anyone else know?

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IwansMam · 19/02/2008 19:27

I think it may be oxytocin, but may be wrong.

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BroccoliSpears · 19/02/2008 19:37

Is oxytocin an endorphin?



Y'know, I am on the internet. I could Google.

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IwansMam · 19/02/2008 19:49

That's how I found it (Google). Never took Biology past GCSE ... got told I'd have to dissect a rat.

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BroccoliSpears · 19/02/2008 19:56

I just found this...

"To begin with, something upsetting has happened to bring you to the point of tears. This in itself is stressful. Stress and tension break down the ammune system and can lead to illness over time. So, when you cry, and I mean really sob, your body is releasing stress, sadness, perhaps anger, and all around tension. It isn't just the crying that is tiring, it is the emotional drainage."

Which makes me feel even worse about the fact that dd gets in that state before sleeping. Oh I hate it.

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BroccoliSpears · 19/02/2008 20:00

I'm finding lots of anecdotal answers but nothing definitive.

Have I given this thread a really rubbish title or something? Am I the only person on mumsnet interested on the effect of a LO crying before sleeping?

Am really quite anxious about this, if anyone has any answers or thoughts they would be appreciated.

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BroccoliSpears · 19/02/2008 20:37

Final bump before I let this die and look for answers elsewhere

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MaeWest · 19/02/2008 20:40

I'm interested, but I don't know anything useful, sorry

Am having similar thoughts about crying baby/sleep as DS was up yelling between 3 and 4am this morning and all my attempts at soothing him were pissing him off royally...

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rachaelsara · 19/02/2008 20:46

Maybe it's the exercise involved in crying really hard that makes you tired?

Perhaps you could let her nap every other day so she's good and tired, then follow a strict pattern every day, no trying this then that and so on.

I have no room to talk about this, I used to cuddle mine to sleep in the afternoons, I loved it!

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IwansMam · 19/02/2008 20:49

Ok, found from here

"A not-over-tired infant self-settling with crying itself to sleep has a normal pattern of the cries getting shorter and the silences between cries getting longer. As a rough example: 5min cry ? 30sec silence ? 2min cry ? 1min silence ? 30sec cry ? 2min silence ? Fidgeting ? Plummet to sleep. Crying stimulates the relaxing happy hormone oxytocin, which also aids digestion. (Over-tired infants can cry until they become hysterical, which is revolting and usually preventable.)"

And yes, I care too. Sometimes I need to let DS cry for 10 mins to get to sleep and its horrible but the only thing which works.

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BroccoliSpears · 19/02/2008 21:45

That's interesting to read IM.

I'm not convinced by its inference that it is normal and natural for a baby to cry himself or herself to sleep over the course of 10 minutes though.

I would have thought that the ideal is for a child to go to sleep without crying at all. I know some people have less of an issue with crying than others, but no one aims for their child to cry to sleep surely?

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BlessThisMess · 21/02/2008 16:29

I don't know the answer to the 'post-crying sleepy chemical' question, but I do know that for a while with both my DDs we've had a patch where they've been unable to fall asleep, and I've had to lie down with her and hold her down, and she struggled and cried, and then had discharged enough energy that she fell asleep really quickly. So, my sympathies. I used to wonder why on earth it had to be like that, but it was just a phase. Can't remember how long it lasted, though, sorry.

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BroccoliSpears · 22/02/2008 22:42

It's just a phase! Oh how I love that phrase. It's my parenting mantra. It's just a phase.

I really hope you're right BTM, because earlier I realised that from being a reasonable sleeper, it is now weeks since she got herself to sleep. She's un-learned how to do it. I desparately want to help her learn how to do it again but have no idea how. She goes to sleep in our arms / in our bed or in the car. Never by herself. I know it's not the worst thing in the world, but she was so much happier when she could cheerfully go to sleep when she was tired and we didn't have all the drama.

Once she's down she's not too bad. Rarely wakes more than 4 times a night, but each time she struggles to go back to sleep without our help.

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