Soft old hippy / AP types - dd needs you!

[MrsBadger]

DD (5.5m) will not sleep for more than an hour at a time but much as I admire the resolve of CC-ers, I cannot do it.

We have had her:
in our bed
in a cot with the side off pushed right up to our bed
in a cot in our room
in a cot in her own room

and she still can't go more than an hour without half-waking and snuffling around for a cuddle.
If she is in our bed she will thrash around and find me and have a snack, then go back to sleep.
If not she will thrash around and moan till picked up, and settle back to sleep in our arms.
If no cuddle is forthcoming the moans and thrashing escalate to intermittent sobbing.
I haven't let it get that far but suspect the next stage would be full-on wail.

In theory I'd be happy to cosleep but I got barely any sleep as she disturbed me so often.

At the moment she's in a cot in her own room and is picked up and cuddled back to sleep every time she moans, though only fed if I think she's genuinely hungry (usu once or twice a night).
I had the vague idea that the next step would be getting her back to sleep without picking her up.

But getting up every hour is killing me, not to mention DH...

Any and all ideas welcome

[FrannyandZooey]

you called

so you can't just give in and try to sleep through the whole thing of her having a snack? If you sleep with your top open / off can she help herself?

[fingerwoman]

if you get to her quick enough (perhaps back in cot next to your bed) can you settle her without picking her up?
I can sometimes get ds2 to go back to sleep if he is just rousing, by making sure his arms are still swaddled so he doesn't hit himself in the face, patting his back and shushing him.

ok, so you'd still be waking every hour, but it's one step on from picking up and rocking back to sleep. and from there you can work on letting her self-settle.

swaddlign really is the main thing that works for us though, ds will sleep for about 30 mins unswaddled before he hits himself awake lol

[FrannyandZooey]

this is a classic stage for waking you know
explains all those early weaners

do you think you could put up with it for another month or two? things may improve. you really shouldn't need to fully wake up every time, if she is right next to you and can get access to milk quickly? surely if you are very tired you can kind of doze through it?

[Bluestocking]

This sounds very familiar and I know how grim it is. DS woke every hour on the hour pretty much every night until he was 18 months old. We used to co-sleep and I used to just let him latch on and off as he pleased. But it was bloody knackering and I was jolly glad when it ended.

[MrsBadger]

I really want to, Franny, but however easy I try and make it (no top, lying on side facing her etc) she still wakes me up flailing like a harpooned penguin, soIget her on, then I can't move once she's feeding, trap nerves in hip etc, inadvertantly move ripping nipple out etc etc

really I want to force persuade empower her to sleep settledly (sp?) for longer periods, then she can sleep wherever she fancies (including in with me)

swaddling may be worth revisiting though she hated it when tiny

[fingerwoman]

yes, ds2 doesn't like being swaddled, but once he is wrapped up and I start the patting and shushing and cheek stroking he's out like a light.
sorry, not very AP I suppose, but it works for us.
I'd love to co-sleep and let him feed on demand but we're both quite crap at breastfeeding lol

[policywonk]

LOL at 'flailing like a harpooned penguin'

Is she teething? I remember that DS2 went through a stage of waking every 15 seconds, until I had a lightbulb moment and got the Calpol out. He must have had Calpol every night for about four weeks, and then suddenly his molars emerged and everything went back to normal.

[Habbibu]

Um - not sure what to suggest for this age, but the No-Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley is nice, and we used bits and pieces of this when dd started going a bit bonkers at 7-8 months. Some of that was definitely teething, but also she's given up feeding to sleep, but thoughtlessly not told us what she would like it replaced with. What worked for us at that stage was lots of shusshing and patting and staying with in her cot, and gently making it a little less each time. But she was older, and feeding at night was counterproductive as I apparently started to lactate highly sugared espresso round midnight...

[heffalumpy]

My DD is the same age and a little bruiser - nothing like being smacked and kicked about in the night to take the shine off those night feeds It has got a bit better at settling herself now that she can turn herself onto her side. She now beats up the cot bumper until her cosmic grudge has been satisfied instead.

[BabiesEverywhere]

Does she feed much in the evening ? Have you tried offering more breastmilk feeds in the evening ?

I just seem to remember slightly more settled nights with DD, seemed to follow loads of nursing in the evening but that might just be us.

[NoviceKnitter]

DD is same - think we've compared them on threads before. She's now 7 months and worse than ever (she's always woken frequently through evenings but used to sleep through with just one or two feeds once we were all in bed.)Separation anxiety has set in which seems to be exacerbating things. I do what Franny says but am not sleeping well now she's bigger and I'm squashed between her and DP.

Am trying cranial osteopathy tomorrow as apparently it can help. Will let you know if it does... if not I'm off to buy a super kingsize bed.

ps lol at habbibu's highly sugared espresso...

[MrsBadger]

She feeds well in the evenings (sleepy so less distractable) but effort to make her take more than she asks for just results in sick.
The fact she goes straigtht back to sleep when picked up suggests she's not actually hungry, or at least not so hungry it woke her up.

[waves wearily at NoviceKnitter]
re getting squashed between dh and a big baby, I can highly recommend takign the side off the cot and ramming it up to the bed to create a really wide bit just where you need it. If the mattress isn't at quite the right height you can normally drill new holes and refit the base. Shunt the mattress up to yours and fill the gap on the far side of the cot with rolled-up towels.

[NoviceKnitter]

Yeah we've got a bedside cot which she's always refused to sleep in - although a bit more success in the evenings the last week as we decided it was time bed time was bedtime - but that involves hot water bottles, me lying with my arms under her for ages then gently pulling them out and putting them quickly back when she flinches and stirs then trying again... then half an hour awake again and repeat process... But it's about an inch higher than the bed so this weekend's job is to drill the new holes you describe - then I can roll her back more easily in the night instead of sleeping with her wedged against me...
I've been using unread books but rolled up towels a good idea if it's going to be more than a glorified bedside table/cat bed.

Thanks for the coorie advice by the way - it's back in action again.

[FrannyandZooey]

LOL at empowering her
I vaguely remember it being easier perhaps when they are a bit bigger and don't have to do the flailing thing
ok you have given the co-sleeping / half asleep feeding thing a good shot
what's your next best idea?

[Pannacotta]

MrsB you have my sympathies, we have the same with DS2 who is 8 months.
Am sorry but I don't have the answer, was considering posting a similar question myself as am so tired.
Hope someone can help.....

[NoviceKnitter]

Just to let you know no magic answer at the cranial osteopath (surprise...) - she thought the increase in DD's overnight waking was teething and did some head treatment to try and relieve tension, but apart from that she thought it was just habit.

In your case, can your DH settle DD? We've been reading the Sears Sleep book and that's a route we may go down. Our DD will cry if DP tries to settle her at night but at least she'll know she's with someone who loves her (as opposed to alone), which the Sears seem to think is alright...

Good luck

[squiggers]

What does AP stand for?

[WowOoo]

Ah, it does end and I almost kind of miss those days now in a funny way. Remember I found that If I really made an effort for Ds to feed well at night and from both (meant I had to stay awake and keep waking him a bit) I got woken up less later on and had at least 4/5 hours sleep then. Does that make sense? Good luck.

[WowOoo]

have you tried just ignoring her little moans? only go to her when she really wakes up? We used to put a CD (mozart for mother and baby - same beat as mothers heart rate) on in his room and that would settle him. Mind you, he'd had that from before birth so..Soothing quiet music just might work?!

[mamadoc]

Would she go for patting/rocking in her cot without being picked up? I have never really understood which bit you are supposed to pat when they're lying on their backs but DD likes a hand on her chest and being rocked from side to side.
DH can't do this if she's recently been fed as it makes him laugh when he can hear the milk sloshing in her tummy!
I am planning to graduate on to just the hand on chest no rocking when I can find the energy.

[mamazee]

hi
have you tried the 'no cry sleep solution' book. has worked for loads of people i know.
either that or leave dd with daddy for a couple of nights. go in if she gets really upset but they cope surprisingly well. my ds was not that different to when with me although my dh had to get out of bed and rock him but it seemed to help him soothe himself to sleep better.
i really empathise.

[NoviceKnitter]

Hi again Mrs Badger, don't know if you're still following this thread, and I'm probably tempting fate in writing this post, but... DD's sleep patterns seem to have significantly improved since trip to cranial osteopath. She's waking less and her usual head scratchy stirs aren't automatically leading to waking up. I'm not talking an all night sleeper by any stretch, but some improvement... might be worth a go.