pls share bedtime routines - DS wired at bedtime

[choolie]

DS is 8.5mo and gets totally wired at bedtime. We've had a bedtime routine since the early days, bath, pjs, story, milk, baby lullabies on the cd etc.
He's not the best sleeper and has been used to falling asleep on the boob, after which I transfer him to the cot. then i'm back up to resettle a couple of times before i go to bed, and again throughout the night, usually ending with him sleeping with us (which is getting earlier and earlier each night ).

I've been working on getting him to settle in the cot at bedtime this week, so after his feed, have cuddles then gently put him in his cot, stay with him and try singing quietly (lullabies / love songs, not ac/dc or anything!), patting etc. but the minute he goes in the cot he opens eyes wide awake, starts laughing, kicking his legs and thinks it's playtime. - if I lay down on the bed at this time, he'd fall asleep with me, so I think I need to change his routine so that he knows this is bedtime now, not snuggles on the bed with mummy. It took 2 hours the first night from getting him in his cot, and 1 hour last night and tonight, so I know it's early days. We get him upstairs by 6pm, so I don't think we're missing sleep signs. I'd be really grateful if you'd share your routines for a bit of inspiration. TIA.

[forkhandles]

Sounds like you are doing the right thing to get him to settle in his cot at bedtime, well done for trying! From my experience what he eventually needs to be able to do is go into his cot tired but awake and fall asleep without you in the room. This way he won't need you to come in and settle him when he naturally comes in to a light sleep and wakes in the night. This may be few steps away from where you are now, but not impossible to acheive!

When you put him in his cot and he gets all playful what does he do while you are singing/patting? And what do you think he would do if you left the room (cry ) ?

Have you read any books like The Baby Whisperer or dare I say it about controlled crying? Also The No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley is excellent and very symathetic.

You could on the other had do what we did with one of our DCs who was just like this; cuddle your DS to sleep at bedtime, put him in the cot, bring in with you when he wakes (around midnight) and sort it out (with little difficulty) when they move to their own big bed around 2yrs. Looking back, that period of time when we brought DD in with us was so special and we all got a good night's sleep!

Hope this is of some help

[choolie]

thanks, that's really helpful, I come on here looking I think for answers I suspect sometimes don't exist and somebody comes along and makes me feel better just about what I'm doing myself, cheers .
yes, got NCSS and am following that (feels like I've read all the books there are on baby sleep and have all but given up on them now, apart from trying some of EP's tips. - luckily I got wise and started getting them from the library in the end!).

He starts rolling around and chatting and sometimes does start to calm down when I sing ( - I wouldn't quite make it on the x-factor!) and he does cry if I leave the room (just couldn't do CC). i suspect we will be co-sleeping for a while longer yet, i could cope with that if I could just get a bit of time back to myself in the evenings, sometimes he just won't settle for DH, so it means I can't even have a bath without being disturbed. That's why I'm working on the bedtime bit, in the hope it'll help him sleep a few hours before waking.

Ahh, they'll thank us for it one day when they have babies of their own and know what we did for them!

[Phonicsangel]

Well done in three days you have seen a slight improvement so keep going things will get better .. I have a 3 yr old who doesn't sleep but that's a different story . However my 20 mth old is a good sleeper & one thing that i learnt was that singing before bed was a no no once she got to a certain age about 12 mths it annoyed her more than settled her . I do roughly what you do bath , story , bottle & bed . I lay her in a cot with dummies & teddies that she adopted herself & i walk out & leave her to settle .. I dont believe in controlled crying ( not for me , if others want to thats for them no judgement ) she will quite often play for a while & then she will fall asleep although some nights i too have to go in resettle her .. The thing with falling asleep on the breast is that they wake up & think where is it & then they cry cause they need it to go back to sleep .. Try to just rub his back after feeding so he's sleepy but not asleep & then lay him in his cot give him a comforter if he has one or just stroke his face a couple of times say night night & walk out . leave him for a while if he's used to you being there he may cry for a little while but go back in there & say time for night night or what ever you choose & then keep going out the room eventually he will get message & fall asleep on his own may take a while but def worth it & 8.5 months not into a deep habit so shouldn't be months . When he wakes try not to look at him or talk other than to say night , time for bed . Hope this helps ..

[bunnyhunny]

hi choolie
I swear I know you in RL - you talk JUST like someone I know
anyway ncss is a good book, as is the babywhisperer. WE struggled for ages trying to get ds to go to sleep alone. We worked on it at nap times too, with the babywhisperer shh-pat technique.
Then he went through a stage of waking up and wanting to play. As horrible as it sounds, we had to let him cry for a few minutes (and that is even harder to do while bf for some reason!). If we were in the room with him he thought he would get some kind of interaction...
Anyway, you are in early days. I think it took about 2 weeks to sleep train ds. I think in the end I sat in the room as he cried, and let him cry for 1 min, then reassured him , then let him cry for 1 min etc. It IS hard work, but sooooo worth it...

[Loulee]

----not posting a routine,

but don't forget he's only 8.5 months - it'll all change before you know it.

[forkhandles]

Well if you are following NCSS you'll be fine!! I bet in a day or so it will only take a 15 mins or so for him to settle at bedtime, once you show you are peservering with it and he gets used to it.

Maybe you should get DH to do alternate bedtimes with you so DS get used to him too, let him watch what you do for one night if poss? I never managed to let my control freak side go to allow that!!

And it really was no trouble getting DD to sleep in her big bed. At least then you can lie by them to settle them if they wake in the night. And she eventually didn't even need that. When she was about 2.5 or 3yrs I used to have to sit beside her while she dropped off at bedtime. So I just moved further and further away from her bed until I was right by the door, and then told her I'd be just the other side and she accepted that. Also made one of those bedtime books for her and did lots of talking about how big girls go to bed without their mummy in the room, and wthat was what her favourite big girl cousin used to do.

xx

[choolie]

Thanks for all the ideas, will keep persevering and trying to be consistent. He's full of cold at the moment, which of course makes it harder as he prob does genuinely need cuddles, but i'm trying to stick at it, at bedtime at least, then will work on the middle of the night wakings more when he's better.

saw on another post about working on naptimes first as they'll help the night - and you're not so knackered yourself in the day to persevere, so giving that a go too, fingers crossed!

bunnyhunny, ask the real me next time you see "me"! i'd be surprised if you do know me, as nobody i know with a baby has admitted to anything other than a baby who sleeps through from 2 days old .

[PavlovtheCat]

Sounds like you are doing everything right to me. I found no matter what I did DD would not play ball until she was ready. With my breastfed DD (16 months old now) I followed the baby whisperer technique loosely and when DD was ready to get herself off to sleep, she did it herself, but the routine helped her be able to do it. Once she learned how to do it, she did it brilliantly, about 9-10 months? Since then, apart from the odd night she sleeps 8pm-8am, puts herself to sleep and can occupy herself for half hour in the morning.

I think continue as you are, have learned there is no magic cure for sleepless babies, no quick fix, time, patience and routine is what is needed.

Good luck,

[choolie]

thanks, it helps to hear other experiences! I'm surrounded by people who feel the need to tell me about all the babies they know who sleep through and how relaxed the parents are, as if it's my fault, so it helps to hear the truth!

[PavlovtheCat]

I have also learnt that memory can play tricks on you. Some people I think, forget! When I look back at a glance, it feels like she has always slept through as she does it so effortlessly now, although has the odd night of being totally awake! But when I actually remember properly I remember the nights when I sat in the kitchen with a green tea, whilst DH had a go at settling DD, thinking, is this ever going to change? Am I going to be one of those people whose child never sleeps? Babies need to learn eveything and I found this to be true of sleep as well as everything else.

[forkhandles]

hey Choolie - how did it go tonight??

xx

[suncream]

Hi Choolie
I totally agree with the Cat. When my ds was your lo's age, we were tearing our hair out - we had a good routine but he'd need settling 3 or 4 times till we went to bed, then he'd come in with us.

We also had the ncss, but didn't really change anything fundamental (I think reading it kept me sane though) & hey presto a few months later things have gradually improved so he goes down at 7 without any fuss, then sleeps till 12 hours (although we are still co-sleeping - need to move him out soon but we're all getting so much sleep at the mo that I can't face changing anything).

Good luck, it will improve even if you do very little. I think that babies this age just don't sleep brilliantly, even my nephew who learnt to settle himself from an early age & was sleeping through from about 4 months had rubbish sleep when he was 9 - 10 months

[Jojay]

Choolie - I think you are doing exactly the right thing.

I think you're so right to tackle this now, as the older he is, often the harder it can be.

I agree with doing it at nap times too, for the reasons you've mentioned, and by being consistent at every bed time, be it nap time or night time, you'll get results quicker.

Best of luck and keep up the good work - I'm sure in a week or two you'll both have it sorted.

[ILikeToMoveItMoveIt]

Ds would only fall asleep on the breast - day and night. Decided we needed to try and change this as he couldn't settle himself. So we worked on the daytime naps first.

I started off by reading his sleep cues in the day. Once I recognised them I would bf him downstairs. Once he was starting to drop off I would keep him latched on and go up to his room where I would carry on with the feed in a chair in his room. Once he had dropped off I would put him in his cot. After 15 minutes he would wake up. I would pick him up and rock in the chair with him, soothing him and singing to him - but not feeding him. Again, when he fell asleep I would place him in his cot. The whole singing/lulling would last a while. But each day it got slightly better.

As the days/weeks went by I would slowly change what I done. Firstly the feed downstairs would get longer, and the feed in his bedroom shorter. To the point where the whole feed was downstairs (my theory was I was taking away the association of feeding to sleep in his room).

Once the feed to sleep association was fading, I noticed that ds would fall asleep quicker in my arms in his bedroom with only a small amount of lulling. If I picked up on his sleep cue straight away and took him upstairs, it got to the point where he understood that going into his room meant going to sleep. The association had moved onto: my nice dark warm bedroom equals a nap, not by mummys nice warm boobies equal sleep.

I hope you get what I am trying to convey, and I hope this helps.

[choolie]

thanks all so much, I actually feel like a new woman today. DS was asleep by 7.55 last night, I did have to resettle at 8.25, then he slept till 10.45pm, we heard him resttle a few times. Had a sleepy feed, then straight back down, only half-woke 1.50 and 5.20 for feed and slept till 8.30 - IN HIS COT ALL NIGHT!!! ] Ialso woke to hear him resttle himself a couple of times in the night too.

So I think he's getting the message very slowly. It's not going to change overnight is it, but I think when you're in this situation and get so tired that you think it's never going to change, you don't even have the heart to try anything new incase it gets worse, as you don't have the energy to put the effort in. Think I hit my lowest point this week with it, which is what made me see I had to start trying to change now or lose my mind!

Thanks all for sharing your experiences and tips, it's been so helpful and there's some extra stuff I'll try out as well, cheers. I know he's not going to start sleeping through 12 hrs from tonight onwards (but will let you know if he does!!! ), but at least I feel we're going in the right direction now.

[PavlovtheCat]

Choolie - so glad to hear last night went well. Its funny how you are pleased that you were only woken 3 times eh?!! Soon enough, when he wakes once you will wonder how you ever got up so many times! FWIW - I went to a friends for the night last night, and DD was a complete Mare all night, she thought she was there to play with all the toys in the room she was in (DH, me and DD stayed in friends son's room) and would not sleep for anything. I am knackered!!!

You are so right, its not instant but sounds like the hard work you and your DS are putting in is paying off.
I hope it continues.

[choolie]

thanks Pavlov, "only" took 45m tonight for him to drop off, so we're getting there. just waiting for the first waking now am sitting here feeling positive he's not going to wake till my bedtime .

[PavlovtheCat]

45 mins is good! DD is exahusted, she was asleep before I even left the room!

[forkhandles]

Choolie that's fantastic! Just think a few days ago it was 2hrs to settle - well done to you for doing it!! And the fact that you can hear him settling himself is great, all heading in the right direction.

[choolie]

ahh, thanks both of you. helps to know you're rooting for us .