back to basics

[bagsundereyes]

I'm going to sound really stupid posting all of this, so please feel free to patronise/point out the bleedin' obvious. LO is a terrible sleeper, and at the moment I feel like things can't get much worse. I have had a "discussion" this evening with DH about where we might be going wrong.

We get up at 7 - LO drinks 6oz. 1/2 hr sleep 8.30 - can't seem to extend this tho I think she needs it. another bottle 10ish. sleep 12ish - sometimes 1.5 hours if lucky. another bottle 2ish. sleep 30mins around 3.30-4 - again can't seem to extend this. Now the grumpiness sets in (mine and hers). another bottle fiveish. Bath 5-6. A top up bottle 6ish. Bed 6-30ish. Up and screaming by 7.30 at the latest.

Now I don't think she's hungry - just doesn't seem the same sort of cry, she seems more tired. But I'm starting to have my doubts....
Also I am wondering if it is worth battling with her to go down again at 7.30, or whether I should just keep her up til 9-10. Part of me thinks it makes sense, as she is up 19 evenings out of 20 anyway, but part of me thinks I shouldn't as she seems so shattered, and this is the source of the crying.

I'm just getting really frustrated losing my evenings to trying to soothe an overtired, inconsolable baby, and would rather she's up and happy than in and out of bed and crying.

Hope this makes sense - am concerned that I'm losing the power of coherent thought.

Thoughts please

[whomovedmychocolate]

How old is your LO?

[whomovedmychocolate]

Without knowing age it's really hard to make suggestions - but have you considered colic? Also, I don't care if you think you have it bad, I would KILL for a baby that napped, period and who needed more than ten hours sleep in a 24 hour period. So you are obviously doing some things right!

[Ceebee74]

Again, hard to know what to suggest without knowing how old your lo is - but until DS was about 5 months, we used to let him fall asleep downstairs with us and put him in his moses basket or on a beanbag in the lounge until we went to bed - we still got our evenings (although a little quieter!) and DS settled easily.

[bagsundereyes]

she's 3 months - point taken re the 10 hours. But her sleep only comes in 2 hour bouts, and I'm going up the wall without REM sleep (DH has taken over tonight.

[octo]

What happens at night?
How old is she?
Does she sleep in cot during day?
Light on/off?
Rock/cuddle/dummy???

You maybe need to think about what you do to indicate to her that it is nightime iyswim!

[bagsundereyes]

x post CeeBee - have tried all venues for the sleep, but the screaming persists.

Only 15 3/4 years til we can marry her off, I suppose........

[octo]

oh she is still quite little - my ds3 is 7 weeks feeds/sleeps erratically during the day but will have 2 big sleeps. He wants to go to bed in his cot 7pm at the latest and sleeps til 1am - then 4 am then 7am. Like clockwork really. We do the same every night - change, grobag, feed, cot, say night night and shut door! We bath once a week and he knows that means bed too.

[whomovedmychocolate]

Aha! This has happened recently yes? Could be:

(1) Hunger/growth spurt - up her milk and see if it helps
(2) Teething - my dd cut her first teeth at three months

Alternatively she may not have learned to resettle herself yet - do you always run in and pick her up when she wakes up? Are you panicky when you do it (sorry don't mean to sound patronising - I used to run in terrified each time until DH pointed out this was freaking DD out even more).

Have you tried the no cry sleep guide for ideas, tons of them.

NB did you know that new mums brains actually change so they reach REM twice as fast as dads to cope with the lack of concurrent sleep hours. You'd be psychotic by now if this wasn't the case.

[octo]

Sounds a bit like colic to me too re the screaming - have you thought about leaving her for 10 minutes in her cot to see if she falls asleep on her own (ducks and runs for cover!) - worked for us and now he goes off without tears.

[whomovedmychocolate]

Yes you should run Octo - poor little thing - she's only three months old. Far too young to be abandoned by her loving parents.

[bagsundereyes]

Wasn't sure about colic.....but I suppose it could be. The roaring does get rather fierce.

We did do the leaving her to resettle thing initially, but sadly she wasn't buying that one and on those occasions took about 8 times as long to console. So now I do offer a rapid response service I'm afraid!

Might hunt out the no cry sleep guide for routine ideas. we do the whole bath, pjs, story, cuddle thing but i'm clearly not getting this right, so would be keen to try new ideas

[dollydumps]

Maybe she is a little young to be going down at 6.30. My LO was maybe still up till about 9pm at 3 months. If you give her a big feed before bed at 9, maybe she'll sleep till about midnight? We just kept bringing bed time forward by 10 minutes until we got it to 7pm which I think is fine. She didn't go down at 7 till she was about 5 months. Sounds like she's getting good naps during the day but if your not doing this already, I would try putting her down for specific naps during the day in her cot. And don't 'feed her to sleep' - make sure she's awake when she goes down (easier said than done) so that she teaches herself to get off to sleep without the wrong associations.
Do you reckon your bedtime routine is pretty sound or does it change night to night? xx

[octo]

It sounds like you've tried everything! I think you need to decide on one thing and stick to it!

[bagsundereyes]

Dolly - interesting to hear that you went for a 9pm bedtime. I think I might have tried this earlier, but all those well-meaning folks around me (god love the mil!) had put me off.

I also like the idea of bring it forward incrementally. Whatever makes the poor little soul happier, really (and 3 hours of sleep at once for me wouldn't be bad either....)

[whomovedmychocolate]

"The roaring does get rather fierce. " - perhaps she's a lion?

[whomovedmychocolate]

Give cranial osteopathy a go. Might help.

[bagsundereyes]

She's definitely some sort of untamed beast!

[octo]

I saw a homeopath today who recommeded cammomilla (teetha powders) for any kind of restlessness, screaming, colic etc - said is really calming - may be worth a try.

[dollydumps]

God love the MIL!

I tend to think the whole sleep thing is as much down to luck as anyhing else. At 3 months I still couldn't differentiate the cries of sleepy/ hungry/ sore, never mind start to sleep train! In my (limited)experience, they do start to find their own pattern, and GOD help you if it is 2 hourly feeding. My wee one only ever fed twice a night and she was breast fed so I think that's good going. Eventually at 5.5 months I did CC and she's slept 7-7 ever since (she points out smugly). Take heart it will get better!

[bagsundereyes]

seriously though, thanks for all the suggestions. I'm now off for an early night, as I am completely unselfishly allowing DH some one-to-one quality time with his daughter this evening . I'm sure things will seem more manageable after a five hour chunk of sleep.

[JimJammum]

Maybe just a phase??? DS went through one at about the same age where he would sleep for a bit and then wake every evening just as we sat down for dinner and proceed to yell/crash out/yell/crash out until 11pm ish. Then one day he realised that life was better if her just stayed asleep and has done so ever since from 7pm until 10.30 when he has another feed. Keep going with the bedtime routine - this seemed to be the key with my LO.