Help with 18month old sleep schedule

[TS123]

Do I need to change ds's sleep schedule.

Currently this is what I follow:
Awake 5:30-6am
Nap noon - 2hour
Bedtime 7:00-7:20pm

I don't mind his waking hour. The thing I don't like is that despite following this schedule rigourously for 2 months, he still seems tired so much of the time. I think this is because he spends a fair amount of time in his cot but his sleep is actually restless and erratic. For example: he'll sometimes wake at 5:30am and be happy and alert until noon, while other times he wakes at 6am but he's totally exhausted by 10am and overtired by noon. At bedtime, he'll sometimes crash at 7pm, while other nights I can hear him rustling around for 30minutes (or more?) - despite having a 2 hour nap both days. I hear him cry out briefly and resettle himself at night -sometimes 2-3 times, and I'm starting to wonder if he's awake for long stretches during the night too. I don't mean to sound like a complainer -I realize he's got very good sleep habits. It's just that any of you out there whose kids don't sleep well can back me when I say that it is very very tiring to deal with a tired toddler all day. I am pregnant and due any day now and I would really love to know if there is something I am missing -- can I help ds to sleep more soundly and more consistently? P.S. He has no medical condition that would interfere with sleep and we have black-out blinds, noise machine etc. . .

[CantSleepWontSleep]

So on the days that he is exhausted by 10am, are you still keeping him up until noon, or is he going to bed at 10?

If you're keeping him up then I'd say that your problem is that you are too rigid with nap times, rather than being driven by your ds' needs.

[TS123]

TBH, I used to go more with his needs but I spoke with a sleep psychologist about his previous schedule (which was very flexible) but then his nap was always alot shorter and he'd be a mess by 4pm and need to go to bed at 6:30 which meant he'd be awake at 5am. On multiple sources of advice, I moved his nap to the early afternoon -- a more "normal" time for toddlers to nap and now his nap is longer and he can stay up until 7-7:30pm which is much more reasonable.

[CantSleepWontSleep]

Yes, it does sound like you're doing everything 'right'. In fact your routine is pretty much the same as ours (nearly 16 months), except that bedtime is 8 here, so everything is shifted by half an hour (and her nap varies from 1-2hrs). My dd manages perfectly fine on this amount - it's just me who'd like longer!!

Sorry I can't think of any more suggestions. Does he wake from his nap after 2 hours himself, or do you have to wake him? My dd won't sleep longer at night no matter how tired she is, but she'll catch up with a longer daytime nap sometimes.

[TS123]

So your dd also naps at noon? I figure the earliest I can make his nap is noon unless I want to start seeing his whole schedule slide backwards slowly (which is where we were back in March -- at one point waking at 4:30am, nap at 10am, bed at 6:30pm). So you can understand my frustration and reluctance to let his nap slip earlier, even just one day. Yesterday though, he was so overtired by noon that his nap was only 1 hour and he was a disaster by 6:30pm. I held off putting him to bed until 7pm but he was up earlier than usual (before 5:30am). Seems that I'll just have to put up with a tired baby in the late mornings until his body readjusts to the correct schedule (the one that I'm happy with!) I just can't understand what drives him to wake so early - if he's not rested. And if he is fully rested, then why can he not last through the morning? He's starting preschool in a few months and I'm concerned that he will not be able to partake of activities due to excessive fatige from 10-10:30am onwards. (at home with me, all I can do with him is hold him or go for strolls), then he's so wired by noon that he doesn't settle well for a nice long nap. - sorry for droning on about this, it's just such a frustrating thing.

[Kewcumber]

my DS sounds almost the same but he naps at 1pm for 1.5 to 2 hrs (I let him sleep as long as he likes but no later than 4pm!).

Sometimes he also rustles around for up to 30 mins when he goes to bed too, chattering to himself. Never thought of it as being a problem personally.

DS is much more tired at the moment as he has really found his feet and is burning loads of energy, if he seems tired I give him something to eat seems to work. very very occassionally if he is very grizzly I'll put him down for a morning nap but only about every 10 days or so now.

[Kewcumber]

DS is also 18 months btw

[Kewcumber]

if DS wakes up ealry form a nap (say 45-60 mins) and I think he needs more I have taken to rocking him back to sleep. It seesm to work 80% of the time.

[CantSleepWontSleep]

No my dd usually naps at about 1 TS, although last week she was in fact going up closer to 12, as she was getting up at the early end of her scale (about 6:15).

Kew's food suggestion is a good one too. Sometimes I think that dd is really tired, but rather than put her to bed early and before lunch, I'll give her an early lunch, and then she'll seem revived afterwards.

There isn't a neighbour that goes out early in the morning which could be disturbing him is there? I have a suspicion that one of mine goes out around 6:20 most days, and if dd is in a light period of sleep then it can signal the start to our day. It's incredibly peaceful where we are, so any sound really stands out.

[TS123]

It seems most other kids his age are sleeping later into the morning which makes it easier to keep them up until 12 or 1pm. My lo gets into trouble because he rises so early then cannot last until a noontime nap. I thought that putting him to bed at 7pm might help him sleep later into the morning since I've read that putting kids down too tired may make them rise too early. However, so far, I don't think it's worked for him. It's possible that he just sleeps less than most kids his age. What time do your kids go to bed and how long will they sleep at night? Are they sleeping straight through?

[Kewcumber]

TS - my Ds wakes at exactly the same time 5.30-6am and still can go until 1pm most days. Mind you he never has napped for long in the day. Today he did go for a morning nap but I think thats because he has a cough and isn't that well.

Also it took a week or so of moving his nap by 15 minutes to get to 12.45 or 1 ish. Also I give him quite a big lunch and keep busy all morning which does keep him going longer

[Kewcumber]

just to clarify my DS 18 months...

Wakes around 5.45am
nap 1pm for about 2 hrs
Bed usually about 7.15pm

sounds just the same as yours just naps a little later

[frumpygrumpy]

Solve Your Child's Sleep Problem, Dr Richard Ferber, has loads of info on sleep patterns and rythmns. I have referred to it for years for different things. Maybe worth a look......

[Kewcumber]

are you sure he has a sleep problem? I know you say he is restless but I'm sure if someone listened tome sleep they'd hear worse

[frumpygrumpy]

this is great www.amazon.co.uk/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp/0863181228/ref=sr_11_1/202-5699826-4519064?ie=UTF8&qid=1181069788&sr=11-1&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[frumpygrumpy]

links have changed, does this work?

[CantSleepWontSleep]

TS - to clarify our rough schedule.

Wakes anytime from 6:15 to 7:00 (most often between 6:20 and 6:40).
Naps around 1 for either 1 hr 15 mins, or for just over 2 hours (she'll go in waves doing several days of the shorter time, then a bit of a catch up for a couple of days if she's been busy).
Goes to bed at 8 (occasionally a little later if she's had a long nap).

[TS123]

Thanks so much for all the feedback. Sounds like I'm not too far off track. I guess I overinterpret some of the normal changes in sleep patterns that can occur from day to day or week to week. Kewcumber - I suspect he doesn't have a sleep problem at all - just an anxious, pregnant mother . Ds is certainly teething and he's been constipated with lots of gas so there are reasons why he may not be sleeping so well right now and be restless at night. I guess I just want to be sure that I've got him on a reasonably healthy sleep schedule. Thanks for the links Frumpy!

[Kewcumber]

get the apricot nectar out - it works a treat.

My DS is a very restless sleeper - I just had to get used to it.