10 week old sleep and feed patterns?

[MrsB0412]

I'm looking for some advice please!

My daughter is 10 weeks at 8 weeks she suddenly slept for 5 solid hours from around 11/11:30 to 4/4:30
She did this 3 nights on the bounce and I stupidly thought we were turning a corner But it never happened again!

She is not a great sleeper anyway! Always seems to have a good first stretch of 3-4 hours of peaceful sleep then never really settles well after night feed
Always squirming and grunting and making noise or has wind
She suffers with reflux and is on gaviscon which is conatipating her but she was unsettled like this before the gaviscon too

Lately she seems to be going 4 to 5 hours during the day between feeds but only 3 to 4 at night

I thought maybe feeding her every 4 hrs would fix this instead of letting her go 5 hrs but it doesn't
Instead she just takes less of the bottle
After 5 hrs She will normally take anywhere from 5 to 7 Oz but after 4 hours it's only 3-4 Oz sometimes less!

I keep hearing so many people say around 12 weeks it gets easier and normally sleep for longer stretches but it seems like she is still a long way off!?

Any suggestions?

Thank you x

[FATEdestiny]

Dummies are recommended for babies with reflux. They also reduce SIDS risk (if anyone looks down their nose at the suggestion). Great for formula fed babies since they meet the babies natural desire to suckle.

is on gaviscon which is conatipating her but she was unsettled like this before the gaviscon too

If the gaviscon is not having any real effect, then I would stop using it. Needlessly medicating so young can end up creating additional needless side effects (like digestive problems).

I thought maybe feeding her every 4 hrs would fix this instead of letting her go 5 hrs but it doesn't

I would go much further than that and aim for 2 hourly daytime feeds, as a means to calorie load through the daytime.

This may mean little and often - not entirely sure why you see that as a problem?

• Many babies like little and often anyway.
• There is no great benefit in taking a massive bottle of milk all in one go
• Reflux could be to do with tummy far too full of milk from big feeds. Little, often feeds may help with this

Lets say currently baby has an average of 6oz every 4 hours 24 hours a day - that's 36oz in 24 hours. Compare to a baby who has 3oz every 2-2.5 hours from 7am to 11pm - 9 feeds is 36oz. Hopefully then baby is calorie loaded through the daytime, and needs fewer night feeds.

Personally I would make 4oz bottles (if they start being drained empty, increase) and expect 7-9 bottles through the daytime, every 2-2.5h, depending on how baby's sleep falls. The at night I would expect 1 or 2 feeds at some point, but would try settling with a dummy first and foremost at night.

For sleep patterns through the daytime - watch awake time and expect short (30-45m) naps. I like the EASY routine on a 2-2.5h routine:

E - Eat (full feed)
A - Awake (around 60m from waking at this age, no more than 90m)
S - Sleep (you cant beat a bouncy chair and dummy for daytime naps. Aim for 30-45m naps)
Y - You time (while baby sleeps)

[MrsB0412]

Thank you for the reply
She uses a dummy already and the gaviscon is helping as she Projectile vomits a lot less with it!

Thanks for the suggestion on feeds
I will give this a go
I just thought 4 hourly (ish) was pretty standard for this age

Her naps are just as eratic as her feeds
Different times each day
Different frequency
Different lengths (anywhere from 10 min to 2 hours)
Sometimes she is playful for hour or so after bottle Then gets ratty then sleeps
Other times she falls straight to sleep after the bottle or on the bottle

She just doesn't seem to have any routine no matter how hard I try to implement one!

[unimaginativename13]

What helped for us is don't always assume the are hungry in the night.

My DS was just starting to wake out of habit or faff around with 1/2oz so we either just ignored him or did the dummy thing. Then his feed got later and later ie 5/6


He doesn't have a dummy during the day.
Do you have a bedtime routine? And how do you feed in the night?

I try to make sure DS has his afternoon bottle no later than 4.30.

Then we do bath bottle bed for 8pm, at 7pm we switch the lights off and he gets fed with no eye contact in his PJs then straight down to bed and left to self settle (which does happen most of the time) if he doesn't then we get the dummy. If he wakes again, no lights on feed and straight back down.

He has just woken at 4 for a bottle but he was out of sync yesterday and was sick a bit so I'd fed him earlier to got to bed , he's currently thrashing around in his cot but yawning.

He gets up around 8, but can only stay awake for about an hour then he naps (then that's my chance to get ready or go back to bed) from then we have lights on curtains open TV or radio on.

[Marzipants]

I feel your pain!

I wouldn't advise feeding every two hours at this stage. DD is 10 weeks and feeds every 3-4. From what I remember with DS1+2 if I fed them closer together they'd just snack rather than having a proper feed and in fact sleep worse at night.

This really is a crappy time for DD sleep wise at the moment (quite literally!). She's also done the 5 hour sleep thing, then back to 2.5/3 hour wakings to mess with us. I am trying to hold on for 12 weeks when I remember it getting a lot easier. We've also not managed to get DD into a good routine as early as the other two because of Christmas / general exhaustion, so fingers crossed that will help too.

[WinterBabyof89]

I'm of the mindset that babies fall into their own routine for the most part.. 10 weeks is still so young. I don't think it's helpful to stress yourself out trying to establish a routine with such a small baby - they'll get there in the end.

My DS is 16 weeks and is just now starting to go for longer at nights. He was on a 3 hourly schedule for quite some time. Sometimes he feeds 2 hourly in the day which seems to have started when he has been going longer at night.

He's also got reflux which has gotten gradually better since birth. Uses a dummy, raised mattress, anti-reflux milk.

My advice would be relax, feed your baby when they are hungry, try to encourage more alert time in the day but don't force it, and don't fret about a routine at 10 weeks :)

[MrsB0412]

I'm pretty sure she must be hungry when she wakes as she is drinking anywhere between 4 and 6 Oz on them feeds? So I would have thought this means she is hungry?

I've just started a bedtimr routine this week so only 3 nights so far
Around 6-7ish (hard to pinpoint as she is so eratic with sleep in day) I do Bath (which she hates and screams all the way thru But I'm hoping this will improve?!) then baby massage
Then bottle with lots of cuddles and lights low and quiet voices etc
Normally get her down anywhere between 8 and 9 but 99% time she will already be asleep either on the bottle or because of her reflux I have to keep her upright for 20minutes minimum after feed so even of she is awake after bottle She will often fall asleep during this 20 min on me
So I guess I will have to work on the putting down awake thing as and when the opportunity arises which may not be until her reflux settles down

I have lights and TV etc on whenever she sleeps in daytime

Everyone keeps saying it gets easier at that 3 month mark but she is 11 weeks Sunday and I feel like we are a million miles away still

I find everything soo hard where she doesn't have much of a pattern
Other than normally going 4 to 5 hours in the day between feeds
Her sleep in day is eratic
Some days she will literally have 3 or 4 lots of 10/15 minutes naps

Other days she will have a hour or two solid at some point

It makes bedtime routine so
Difficult too as sometimes she falls asleep and I don't want to wake her and her be ratty for the bath she already Hates
Or If she hasn't slept she will be ratty for it anyway
Or if I leave her to sleep and do it when she Wakes it's often so close to bottle time she is screaming cos she is hungry

Just keep feeling like I'm failing

My friends reassure me that it's not pin pointing the time that matters right now? As she doesn't know if it's 6, 7 or 8 o clock
It's just making sure you go thru the motions at whatever time you can so she learns that these are the signals for bedtime and nighttime etc
Do you agree with this?

Thanks everyone for your support
After 3 yrs TTC with IVF I just focused so much on my miracle baby being here I had no appreciation how hard being a mum is!
Hats off to anyone that does this more than once!!
X

[FATEdestiny]

Everyone keeps saying it gets easier at that 3 month mark

I wouldn't say easier, but it is likely that sleeping and feeding patterns will change around the 12 week mark.

Then again at 4 months, and again about 5 months, then 7 months.....

Point being that if things are rubbish now, even if you do nothing then everything will change anyway soon. So while having sustainable habits in mind is useful, there is no great benefit in stressing or worrying too much about sleeping and feeding in a baby thing young. Even if you reach the point where everything is great and how you want it to be, give it a month and it will all change anyway.

After 3 yrs TTC with IVF I just focused so much on my miracle baby being here I had no appreciation how hard being a mum is!

This is all too common and you will not be alone. Indeed even those who conceive easily, with their first child they focus on being pregnant, giving birth, meeting baby - new Mums really appreciate the actual practicalities and hand-damn-work of having a baby.

This is multiplied up immensely with 'miracle babies'. I think those who struggled to conceive a longed-for baby are shown in research to be more prone to PND for this reason.

You are not a failure

My friends reassure me that it's not pin pointing the time that matters right now?

Just enjoy having a baby. Baby will mostly just be eating and sleeping at this age, don't try to do too much.

[FATEdestiny]

rarely, not really

[SouthernComforter]

My DS is just over 9 weeks and his night sleep cycles are suddenly shorter. He seems to be finding it harder to nap in the day and get to sleep at night. He's bf but if he's awake I feed him every two hours or so - he's a big boy and always takes it. I think it's just a developmental phase...

[MrsB0412]

I just don't know what to do anymore
Im currently sitting in my rocking chair at 5am sobbing 😔
I love my daughter so much but the frustration at night is just so tough

Yesterday I thought let's try a different tactic and try 4 hourly ish feeds instead of 5.... Thinking she wouldn't take much as per my previous post

But I made 7Oz bottles just in case and to my amazement she took 6.5Oz at 8am 12 noon and 4pm
She also napped at 9am to 10:30
2:30 to 3:30 and 6 to 6:45
I then did her bedtime routine and started her on another bottle at 7:15pm which she took about 6Oz of

My night so far
Bottle 7:15 sleep 8:30 to 12:30
Bottle 12:45 sleep 2 to 3:30
Left to grizzle for 20 Min and tried Dummy several times and cuddling
Bottle 4am and here I am now at 5:15 about to attempt to put her down again!

I just can't understand why her shortest feed time seems to be that middle of the night feed which often now seems to be less than 4 hrs! Closers to 3 hrs
When at one point she was going 4-5hrs 😔

I'm just out of idea...

FEEDS
Tried longer and shorter timeframes and tried offering larger amounts in daytime and also tried offering a smaller amount in the night which resulted in crying and sucking my face until I made more

GROWTH SPURT
I think the next one isnt until 3 months?

NAP
I've had days with much less sleep in day (an hour or so in little 10 min naps) and I've had days like yesterday with longer periods
Neither make difference to night

BEDTIME ROUTINE
Bath
Baby massage
Bed
Lights low
Quiet voices
No playtime
Story if still awake after bottle
Quick nappy change in night no Washing or wiping just fresh nappy on

OWN ROOM and COT
Trying this weekend!

DUMMY
Offered for at least 10 min before bottle made either refused or spat out

REFLUX
Baby gaviscon
Regular winding
Moses basket raised
Kept upright for 20 Min after bottle

INSOMNIA
When I put her back down its taking me 30min to hour to get to sleep now 😔

FINALLY LOSING THE PLOT?!
I'm hearing things
Think I can hear TV On and her toys on in the night!
And I often have headaches and feel sick in the night
I've read it's all linked to sleep deprivation
I reckon I'm surviving on around 4 ish hrs of broken sleep a night
Is this normal?!

[lemon101]

Mrs B -can your partner do some of the feeds at night (temporarily)? The sleep deprivation side effects you are having are normal (I.e if you are only getting 4hrs broken sleep for a prolonged period I would expect that), but they are not good and you need some support. It is more important at this juncture that you look after yourself.

[comeagainforbigfudge]

Aw OP I had the princess of napping, 15 mins was her speciality. Gradually increasing to 20 then 30. Didnt matter where she was (pram/chair/floor/on me) it was like a wee internal clock went off.

The turning point FOR ME was just accepting it. Not trying to reason it out or change it. We bottle feed as well and i just fed on demand. Once i accepted that this was her, i just adapted around her (e.g power naps together).

Where is your OH is this overnight feeding lark? We split the night, so OH would deal with baby from bathtime until 1am then i would do the rest of night, giving me much needed "rest" time aka watching tv/having a shower/shovelling as much food as i could in

Personally, I wouldnt move baby into own room just yet. Still very young. But if you have room in yours for the cot, do try that as moving from basket to cot made a big difference for us, LOADS of room to spread out and wriggle to top of cot!

The other thing that helped was using a version of E.A.S.Y. that fate describes, using this website as a guide.

[FATEdestiny]

Mrs B. I am reading your post at 5.30am and my over-riding thought is: You are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. You baby wont be the perfect baby you are expecting. No one's is.

As PP said, accepting the situation as it is rather than obsessing about things being different is often 'The Answer'. Make the best of things as they are. Look after yourself now, rather than expecting that when things are better, you can look after yourself then. Just accept things as they are now and make life as easy as possible as it is now.

I would bring the big cot into your bedroom (take a chest of drawers out to make room, if needed). You can also remove one side off the cot using an allen key to make a 3-sided cot. This is very easy to do. Butt it up to your bed and you have a bedside cot - like an extension of your own bed that allows you to settle baby while lying in your own bed.

This is all done in the name of making life as easy as possible right now. Accepting and coping with the situation as it is.

Co-sleep for naps. Try getting baby to sleep lying on your bed and then sleep (or at least rest) together. Make sure you know about safe co-sleeping recommendations for SIDS.

Call in as much help as possible. Your partner could help to give you a chunk of sleep. I always preferred my DH to take the early morning shift, the few hours before he started work, rather than late night shifts looking after baby. Also other friends and relatives might be able to help if you are able to ask them. This might be to take baby out in pushchair for an hour while you have a powernap. Or cook you a wholesome meal. Or do some housework for you.

Again, this is all done in the name of making life as easy as possible. Accepting and coping with the situation as it is.

I would stop clock watching. Don't pay any attention to how long from one feed to the next or one sleep to the next. Just keep on the merry-go-round of sleep feed sleep feed sleep feed without considering the time.

If in doubt - more milk and more sleep solves most issues.

[Marzipants]

I have no more advice but just . I was hearing things last week (thought I could hear DS2 shouting when he was fast asleep), but a couple of nights of going to bed at 7pm and leaving the baby with DH saved me.

For me this stage is the hardest and crappiest. Get sleep whenever you can, 4 hours in one block is key for helping your mental health. I hope your DP can help out this weekend.

Good luck!

[poocatcherchampion]

I agree with fate. Just try to go with the flow. I never look at the time in the night now.

I'm giving my 12wo a go napping in his cot again today. If it works I'm going to bed, if not I think we both are.

He is my 3rd baby ans I have realised that mostly there is nothing to do to influence them you just need to enjoy and get through it.

Is the baby screaming all night?
If not crying then no need to get up with them every time
Has anyone asked about co cosleeping?

Everything chges all the time and they a re only little for such a short time.

(Mine never sleeps except on me in the day so perhaps if that worked for you ans she was better napped the nights might be easier?)

[cornishglos]

I'm sorry there's such a lot to read here I've just skimmed it, but here's my thoughts (on baby no.2)

I would try to feed her every 2 hours in the day. Wake her up and don't let her sleep for 4 hours during the day. Then she'll be more tired/ full at night. I had to do this with my no.1 as he woke very frequently. It worked.

[SouthernComforter]

Split sleep shifts with your husband - that's what I'm doing now (we also have an early rising toddler). Don't expect a routine, just do whatever you can to keep baby happy. A friend's mum advised me - and this is hard - not to clock watch at night. Saying 'I only got 5 hours in two chunks' leads to instant negativity (so she says). That's the hardest part for me. That said, my 9wo slept for nearly 7 hours last night but cried for hours before hand and has only catnapped all day today. I'm frustrated and a bit irritated because I can see his eyelids drooping before he jerks awake again but I'm about to take them to the park and hope he sleeps in the pram...

[MrsB0412]

Thanks for your replies

Hubby has quite a stressful city job
Leaves house 7:30 and is rarely home before 7pm so I dont feel like I can expect him to do Night feeds
He does take her for couple hours in the morning at weekends and I try to sleep then.

She sleeps best in bed with me... Which I know I shouldn't do but by 5/6am I often give in. I don't really sleep as I'm so aware she is there But as least it keeps her quiet for another couple of hours normally!


I don't think the whole cot by bed thing will make a difference as it doesn't make a difference when o keep my hand on her over moses basket?

The whole sleep thing in the day is just so hard as not only do I seem to have some kind of insomnia going on her naps are so eratic in terms of time and frequency I often find that just as I'm dropping off she will wake
I think I've successfully managed to nap with her twice in almost 11 weeks!

She Def doesn't sleep more than 4 hours in the day

She is not screaming but she is awake and grunting and growling and Fidgeting which eventually turns to crying
I left her awake and making noise for 20 Min in the night until she eventually cried and then I waited 2-3 min before comforting her

[FATEdestiny]

I don't think the whole cot by bed thing will make a difference as it doesn't make a difference when o keep my hand on her over moses basket?

If you remove one side off the cot, you can cuddle right into the cot. It is this that makes a difference, not just having the cot next to the bed. Once baby is asleep and settled, you can then try for extracting yourself back to your own space while keeping baby in-situ in the 3-sided cot. It is a nice middle-ground between co-sleeping when baby likes co-sleeping but you don't really want to - which seems to be exactly where you are.

[comeagainforbigfudge]

What fate said re cot. Its always worth trying.

Please remember MrsB your DD is HIS BABY TOO.

Yes, he may have a stressful job. But so do you. Its not easy living on very little sleep, probably not eating or drinking that well,and if you are anything like i was at that stage, sometimes not even getting a shower or remembering to brush teeth until OH got home . Whereas i bet your DH gets all of the above plus time to read on commutes (if not driving obviously).

At the very least he should take over once home until midnight.

My oh, since we started a bed time routine, does bath bottle bed and any re-settling needed.

I cannot stress this enough. You will make yourself sick if you dont get him to do his share. You may also start to resent him. I know i did, tears and snotters galore it got to the point i was so tired i dropped baby, she was fine

It really does gradually get better though. I promise

[SouthernComforter]

I moved my son from a Moses basket into a sleepyhead in the bed with me and it's made a world of difference. My husband is in the spare room. Sometimes we swap over after a night feed so he does the gripey session too. He commutes to the city - but he also gets alone time and lunch breaks, more than I sometimes do. So I guess I'd suggest (in a nice way! ) your DH could do her bottle then settle, then stay with her at least for a few hours. I'm loving the new baby stage this time round (most of the time) but it can be very wearing. You need a breather.

[MrsB0412]

Thanks again for your replies

Hubby has agreed to do one night at weekend
He did Friday night and I went to bed at 8pm and basically got around 9 hrs of sleep albeit broken still
But I feel like a new woman and feel looking forward to that night once a week to recharge will help me focus and get thru each week!

Also, I might be missing something obvious here but I don't really understand the whole keep them in your room thing?
Why does it lower SIDS?

If you have a video monitor then surely you can see and hear them just like you would in your room?
And if you have a sensor pad that detects breathing and movement that would seem to be even safer?
And using sleep bags so no risk of wriggling down under blankets?

Sorry if I'm being a dumb ass! But I'm just trying to understand how its different? X

[austengirl]

FATE is more knowledgeable about SIDS risks and info than I am, so I let her answer that if she wants. But the sensor pads are not 100% accurate and can give false alarms, presumably sending you running into DC's room when they're fine, etc.

I sympathise entirely, my DS only sleeps on me between 12 and 6 am. He's only 9 weeks but I would love to know when it gets better!

[poocatcherchampion]

The thought is that they are stimulated to breathe by hearing you breathe. Its not about you hearing them its the other way around. So in our case in the evenings when he is already upstairs we noisily stamp in every 15mins to slightly disturb him.

A video monitor is neither hear nor there, not least because you wouldn't be up all night watching it presumably.

[FATEdestiny]

Page 16 of The Lullaby Trust: Evidence Base:

"Room sharing
There is evidence that when infants are placed in the same room as their parents, but they do not share the same sleep surface (i.e. room-sharing not bed-sharing), a significant decrease in the risk of SIDS is seen. A large study combining casecontrol studies from 20 regions across Europe showed the risks of SIDS in multivariate ORs of 0.48 (95% CI 0.34-0.69) and 0.32 (95% CI 0.19-0.55) when a room was usually shared and when a room was shared in the last sleep, respectively"

Further research on these sources:

• Carpenter RG, Irgens LM, Blair PS, England PD, Fleming P, Huber J, et al. Sudden unexplained infant death in 20 regions in Europe: case control study. Lancet. 2004;363(9404):185-91
• Blair PS, Fleming PJ, Smith IJ, et al. Babies sleeping with parents: case-control study of factors influencing the risk of the sudden infant death syndrome. CESDI SUDI Research Group. BMJ. 1999;319(7223): 1457–1462

Its all about knowing the risk, then choosing how you will manage that risk. It's impossible to eliminate all risk when parenting. But certain factors carry more risk than other factors. So when managing risks it is important to make an informed decision rather than a decision ignorant of the facts.

Regardless of reasons for scientific findings, room sharing is a significant risk. Not just a slight increase in risk.

You make your own decisions, but:

If you have a video monitor then surely you can see and hear them just like you would in your room?

• You watch the video monitor while you are sleeping? Babies who have stopped breathing don't make noise

And if you have a sensor pad that detects breathing and movement that would seem to be even safer?
This only sounds the alarm when baby has already stopped breathing - too late. Or it sounds the alarm needlessly when baby moves, which can result in parents losing sensitivity to the importance of the alarm sounding.
And using sleep bags so no risk of wriggling down under blankets?
Sleeping bags don't stop there being a SIDS risk.

Please google The Lullaby Trust and read all of the various risk factors associated with SIDS. Then, of course, make your own informed decision. But seeking reassurance on an online forum about something like SIDS risk is pointless. These are things that are personal choices and personal decisions based on your own attitude to risk.