No Cry Sleep Solution - slowly but surely....

[chIRIStmasfairybigpants]

Shiny new thread (saw your post Bikebug

Not been on for a while as we've been a house full of colds and having new heating installed (the warmth is bliss) so DS has been sleeping in with me again as he couldn't breathe
Progress has still been made though as I've only been bringing him in from about 11ish(because I'm lazy)and he's been waking coughing during the evening but managing to resettle himself quite a lot.

I really think we're getting there (though it maybe his age too )

How's everyone else doing?

[DetentionGrrrl]

well, after saying that Pantley could stick her bloody book up her bum (Sorry Mrs Pantley) DS has now napped IN HIS COT for the last 3 days, at around the same time. Although he is waking as much as before, i did manage to shush him back to sleep once last night, and didn't even pick him up! (I stood there looking confused, thinking as soon as i get into bed, he's going to wake up...but he slept for a couple more hours!)

Doesn't help that i have an awful cold, but i'm still going to stick with it.

[BikeBug]

hello shiny new thread
So glad you started this Iris, I was feeling too shy to take the plunge and actually start a thread...

So DWB, to answer your questions (or as many as I can remember!), I got DS into his cot naptimes first. He needs to be held and rocked or laid down with and cuddled first (apart from one day when I thought I'd really cracked it but it turned out he was running a temp and just too poorly to resist). I take him into bed after 3am, or if he really, really seems to want it, otherwise I hold, rock, take him to the spare futon and lie down with him there (anywhere but our bed), and return him to the cot when he is almost fast asleep. 9 times out of 10 he wakes up 2 or 3 times and I have to repeat, it's bloody hard work, hence the 3am cut off. lol at the paper eating btw, DS is just the same. Rejects my delightful rice pasta with courgette and fromage frais (it was nice, really), but devours the paper bag the mushrooms came in. No wonder he gets constipated...

[BikeBug]

DetentionGrrrl, well done! You're one ahead of me, I still always have to pick up, but any progress is good

[tiredandgrumpy]

Hi there. Just to report in (have been following the thread for some time and whilst I'm not a dedicated NCSS follower - too lazy - I believe it's the right approach). We've made some progress with dd. She's finally cut her first 2 teeth and this has radically transformed her willingness to settle. We've also persevered on the weaning and I'm really pushing solids at lunch and tea as per hv advice (apparently v important to include protein at these meals to see sleep benefits).

Well, whether the improvements we've seen have been result of end of teething (ok, until the next lot make a move) or more solids, I don't know, but last night dd slept through! I feel shattered today, unaccustomed to a solid 8 (!!!!!!) hours' sleep and am sure that tonight won't be quite so good.

Tonight she's certainly resisting and despite being shattered (2 half hour naps today) she's absolutely refusing to go to sleep. Now what excuses can I think for this? Separation anxiety kicking in, plus the disturbance of learning to crawl. Then when we've got over these,, I guess the teething will kick off again. Joy.

[DetentionGrrrl]

Thanks Bikebug...hope the non-picking up thing wasn't a fluke. Thinking positive thoughts for us all tonight!

[danceswithbaby]

Hey, shiny new thread! Do you think newcomers to this thread will have to read through the old one to find out what we're on about??

Iris! I thought you had left us and run off with Mr Sand Man. for us that you haven't for you though, but progress looks positive. A while ago I was whingeing about the fact that naps had been brilliant for ages but nighttime was getting worse and worse and you said that the same happened with your ds, then naps went all to peices. Well, I thought it was all bollocks and it just wasn't going to work. However, naps have now gone all to peices. I don't know whether to be pleased or not...!

Still loads of waking during the night, but I've finally got that three hour stretch of sleep (lucky old me).

Thanks for answering Bikebug! I still don't think I'm going to be brave enough to stop the night b/f. I'm going to hold out for the NO CRY sleep solution (I suspect the book works because it keeps one living in hope until things sort themselves out naturally, then we say "hey, it worked!").

Going to wrap dd's pressies in fabric this year otherwise she'll be pooing xmas paper for weeks.

[kiskidee]

Love the shiny new thread.
For newbies and others, the No Cry Sleep Solution (NCSS) is a book by Elizabeth Pantley who discusses how sleep changes for babies in their first year and give a series of helpful tips and helps you formulate a plan on how to get your child to sleep better or through without lots of bawling - baby and yours.

she bf, is a mother of 4 i think so understands a lot of the difficulties of putting your baby to sleep. that said, the tips are equally helpful to ff too.


i really admire these folks who are doing this the gentle way as we co-sleep with dd out of sheer convenience and because i work full time and a lazy sod, i will let her stay in my bed. oh, and dh and i are thrilled to wake up with her between us
every morning.

this is her website:pantley

here is an excerpt from NCSS: ncss

also found this article which i will go off to read now:{http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/newsleep.asp\sleep}

[kiskidee]

ack!

here: sleep

[myrtlemaggot]

Hello,

I can't say that I have read the whole of the other thread, but I have skimmed through it so I have some idea of what has been going on since September. I have just started the NCSS on my 7month old ds. I was already doing a lot of the things in the book - bed time routine, getting up at the same time every day, trying to introduce a lovely etc etc, but I think the route of my problem is that I always breast feed ds to sleep. At his best at about 4 months old he only woke twice a night but recently it has been every 1 to 2 hours. Every time he gets a cold we seem to go backwards for a good 4 or 5 weeks afterwards, and having just made some progress over the last week, he now has a temperature today, so I'm not expecting a very restful christmas!

I'm hoping that you experienced NCSSers can help me with a question - I am trying to do the gentle removal at the moment, but everytime I take my nipple out of DS's mouth he wakes up and looks for it again, I keep repeating as the book says and eventually I take it out and he stops rooting, but only because he seems to have fallen asleep in the 30 seconds since I last took it out - is this what I should expect or am I doing something wrong?
The benefit of your experience would be greatly appreciated!

[BikeBug]

hi again all,
Myrtle, I've not had to do it myself but I think lots of people had trouble with the 'pantley pull-off'. I'd say keep persevering, everytime you do it your lo is learning that things are changing. He may still be falling asleep with the nipple in his mouth, but he's learning a different process, does that make sense? I think it's far harder than Ms Pantley makes out in her book.

Tiredandgrumpy - I take hope from your post, DS has been teething off and on for ever (over 9 months old now, and still not a tooth in his head), the last few nights have been hell. I really hope to see a tooth or two soon so he can settle down again.

DWB, good scheme on the fabric wrappings, I am fully expecting DS to have shiny gold and silver poos on boxing day from all the wrapping paper....

[imdreamingofawhiteKITTYmas]

hi all I haven't been around much due to horrendous PC problems and just being v busy. Great to see some of you are making good progress (even if I am )

Anyway things not too great here seem to be going back the way rather than forward. The last 3 nights have been terrible, I am practically on my knees with exhaustion. Last night was like this, last BF at 8 am cound asleep, then she woke 3 times before 11pm and had to be resettled by DP (by rocking), then she was up at around 12ish and 1ish BF back to sleep, woke at just before 4am tried to BF her but she wouldn't settle, DP tried and failed for a bit then I BF her again and tried the pull off which took 27 attempts finally got to sleep at 5.10am, DP was up at 6am for work

I feel I cannot relax at all in the evening as I know the chances are she will wake up again, if DD1 wakes up as well it is horrendous. Day time naps are hit and miss too today she slept for an hour in her pram but if we are at home I cannot put her up to bed and shush her as DD1 needs me.

Last night I truly felt I didn't want to BF her any more, like she is constantly hanging off me and due to the pull off technique she clamps her teeth down and it is painful.

Think I need to revisit the book just having a bad day sorry for the moan

[danceswithbaby]

Sorry you're having such an awful time Kitty . How old is your dd2 again? Her waking patterns sound very like my dd. The only reason I can bear it is because I haven't got another child to worry about. I can't imagine how you are coping. At least I can go to bed with dd if necessary and join her for naps. Also, my lovely DH has started to take her down in the mornings to give me another hour in bed, but you can't do that either, with your DP having to be at work so early. Poor you, you must be seeing double by now (hugs).

I've had trouble with the Pantley pull-off too. DD went through a phase where she just clamped her teeth and often drew blood. I was at my wits end, but that seems to have passed, thank god. It seemed to co-incide with teething.

Myrle, at first with the pull-off it was very much like you are experiencing, only it was generally me who fell asleep! Now, she suckles until she's nearly asleep then, (and I can tell she's gearing up for it), she yanks herself off and rolls over. If I'm really lucky, she'll go to sleep. However, usually she gives it a few seconds then rolls back and latches on again, gears up and yanks off. This can go on for anything from a few minutes to an hour or more, which does my head in. It's worse than letting her suckle into a deep sleep and falling off naturally. So it's hard to tell if it's working or not. Perhaps she's going to be one of those kids who just can't take a hint...

[lori21]

Well after a really positive week or so of two wake ups a night and 3-4 hour sleeps we have gone back again - maybe even worse!!!

Last night was me bf, me falling asleep whilst bf, waking up with DS asleep on me, putting him in his cot, DS waking up more or less instantaneously, me trying to shussh him to no effect, the me bf him, me falling asleep whilst bf, and on and on until this morning at 6.30am when I got up and started the day. The night before was even more fun with DS not interested in sleeping, bf, or 'talking to himself' in the cot. What he did enjoy was blowing on the ends of my nipples like they are a musical instrument or lying between dh and myself grunting and growling like a wild animal. I worked out that dh got about 4 hours sleep, DS got about 3 and lucky me got about 2!

I think I had better read the book again

[moljam]

hello all,went to visit old thread and youd all gone!
anyway ive been rubbish!mixture of poorly baby and lack of routine and were back to square one!
ds is really poorly right now with diarhoa and vomiting and a chest infection so cant do any thing at the moment,dh and i are sharing night ,im up till 3am,dh does 3-7.30am.hes back in with us as i feel better about him being with me whilst poorly.and back to milk in night!!!see what i mean square one.

[DetentionGrrrl]

DS has an awful cold, so not much happening here either. He slept for 3hr stretches most of last night though, which isn't bad considering he can barely breathe. And his 2nd tooth is peeping out.

He did nap in his cot this morning though! And he's stirring when i put him in his cot, so he's being shushed more.

baby steps!

[moljam]

dg,3 hours at a time is great espesially with cold!and napping in cot!

[sashasmama]

hello i am back again! nice to have a shiny new thread too! well dd is doing weird stuff. she is on a bit of a milk strike and drinking v little formula (she was weaned ages ago) but seems to be eating ok. also is wanting to stay awake longer. she normally wants to go to bed by 8. and then wakes up 4 or 5 times a night crying. most of the time i can get her to go back to sleep easily, but once out of the 4 or 5 times she has to stay awake for much longer, like an hour... arrrgh.

danceswithbaby, hi there, and to your earlier question, no she is not in pain, no wind, no new teeth yet after the bottm two came out) - went to see the paed on sat and he confirmed all this... my paed is a man who very obviously has never had to wake up for his kids. his advice was 'you just have to support her thru this difficult time' ... i mean, wtf?! how about me, the mum whho is about to collapse with exhaustion? honestly!

2 more days till we take the dreaded flight from Kuala Lumpur to UK for chrissie (i am malaysian and dh is english). what is tropical baby going to make of it i wonder...

oh and i tried the medicine the doc gave for supposedly making her drowsy on the flight - actifed. guess what... not a minute of difference! sigh.....!

good to be back and my love and sleepy wishes to all. and altogether now... 'all i want for christmas is...!'

[myrtlemaggot]

Thank you for the tips on the pantley pull off. DS has a rotten cold so I have suspended any attempts at it at the moment, although I would like to have it cracked before he gets teeth - drawing blood sounds horrid.

I am inclined to agree with Dances with Babies that the reason the book works is because it gives us something to do until things sort themselves out on their own. At the start of the book Pantley claims that she got her little boy from waking about 8 times a night to sleeping through in about 20 days which sounds a bit unlikely.

Anyway hope all the colds get better in time for Christmas, and that Santa brings us all some sleep!

[imdreamingofawhiteKITTYmas]

hi all last night was a bit better, went down at 7.30pm with bf, up at 11pm (just as I was getting to sleep) quick BF, think she was up around 4ish, then at 6ish, DD1 started crying at 6 so I brought her in with us (bad mummy I know) so there were 3 in teh bed (DP had left for work) it was lovely though the DDs were snuggled together and were holding hands. I had to wake them up at 8 so we could get ready for toddler group.

I think the book has some excellent ideas but for me it's impossible to implement all of them as DD1 is only 2.5yo so unable to entertain herself whilst I settle DD1.

DWB - DD2 is nearly 11 months old, she has a great appetite and eats loads during the day so I know she does not wake for milk. She has one nap of between 30 min - 1 hour a day (if I'm lucky) I do think she would go for longer if I could settle her back down again quickly.

Lori - you sound like you are having a hard time of it as well, DD2 seems to have a constant runny nose as well right now which cannot be helping matters and she has cut 8 teeth now as well.

[DetentionGrrrl]

Aaaaarrrrgggghhhhhhhh. I want to sleep!

Baby has decided he wants to laugh and crawl, and do an enormous poo at 1am. Have resorted to letting him wear himself out downstairs now

I am so tired.

[BikeBug]

DGrrl, ((((hug)))). I felt like that a couple of days ago, but we've had two better nights now, and it's amazing how quickly you feel better with even a little bit more sleep. I hope things are better for you tonight.

My DS is still nothing like sleeping through, but I think we had a breakthrough last night . I put him down in the cot like ususal, and he lay there, eyes opening and shutting, and I swear he was trying to put himself to sleep. He didn't manage - we had another 2 pick up, cuddle, put down sessions and then he woke up twice in the evening and several times in the night, but I really do think it is a breakthrough anyway. He wasn't fighting sleep, and it didn't just overtake him, he was really trying to fall asleep. He's napping now, full to the brim of jar babyfood and fruit salad. I'm off to make some festive gingerbread snowmen for DH to give his team at work.

[imdreamingofawhiteKITTYmas]

Last night wasn't that great down at 7.30pm as usual , one awakening before we went to bed then a further 6 before finally getting up this morning argh!

Tonight I honestly don't know where I am going wrong, this is our routine:

5pm dinner mashed potato, fish fingers, broccoli, peas, carrots, sweetcorn, organic yoghurt followed by leftovers from DD1's plate so it could be said a hearty meal.
6pm bath
6.30-7.30pm crawl around/story time (DP out tonight so have to wait until DD1 goes to bed to take DD2 up), have lounge lights on dim after 7pm.
7.30pm BF in a dark quiet room
has long BF unlatches and rolls over not falling asleep lies in the dark beside me crying/chatting for a bit.
8.30pm give her another BF and she eventually falls asleep at 8.50pm so I have to use this time to grab a quick shower am in the shower 5 minutes and I hear her (en-suite she's still in with us) so I totally give up and take her downstairs with me.

I have things to do at night I cannot lie for hours in a dark room waiting for her to fall asleep, it's so frustrating. She had 40 minutes nap all day today as well. She is now crawling up me full of beans!

I honestly don't know what else I can do?????

[DetentionGrrrl]

Aw Kitty. How old is yours?

Ours has tea at 5pm and a bath at 6pm too- but he'll go to sleep about 6.30pm for maybe 2-3hrs, then wake from then onwards. His cold seems to be breaking (much less bunged up) he slept from about 6.50pm-10.20 last night. Has woken once for a quick b/feed already, and have been up with him this time for about 20mins now. He's crawling round, blowing raspberries and trying to eat DP's boots.

At least he doesn't cry all night. I know other people have it worse.

[sashasmama]

early christmas wishes to all.. we will be leaving for our epic flight back to the uk tonight, and i won't get much internet access after that for three weeks.... fingers crossed i will have better news to post ... as at the mo it is worse than it ever was before.... ! still, fingers crossed!

[moljam]

ds seems like hes getting better so will wait couple more days(or maybe after xmas)to restart ncss.weve been sleeping in front room on floor and catching sleep whenever it comes morning ,noon or night as he wasnt breathing well and waking because of it but lastnight we went to bed,much comfier!now i just need kick up bottom to get me back into routine!
sleepy christmas thoughts to all.