sleep training / CIO hold my hand??

[FusionChefGeoff]

God, decided to do this last night. Always said I wouldn't but DC2 just can't settle if she wakes and I feel she needs to learn and I need some reliable and decent sleep! She's 1 and goes off fine with a bit of a cuddle but really struggles if she wakes up.

Last night she woke about 11.30. I gave up trying to settle her about 12.15 and just let her cry . She was fed, warm, dry nappy, had calpol so felt there was nothing I could do. She must have gone off about 1.30.

Went down well tonight but up at 22.00 so I went in once to check all ok, shushed and patted for about 5 mins then left. She has been on and off furious since. Gaps between shouting / screaming and silence are getting longer but she's still going.

Can you give me some tips / support or tales of success please??!!

I shouldn't go into her now, should I as it will make it all worthless...?

[cosmicgirl99]

No tips or success yet but just to say you are not alone tonight. Finally broken enough by 9mo DC2 to resort to this too. Been awake an hour now and like you the gaps are getting longer but still complaining. Good luck, hope we all get some sleep soon.

[FusionChefGeoff]

Oh thank you cosmic! It's really nerve wracking every time there's a bit of silence I think 'pooh maybe now' and then my heart jumps and sinks at the same time when she shouts again.

Are you doing CIO or CC or another method??

[FusionChefGeoff]

I keep trying to visualise an episode of Three Day Nanny where she did this with twins and they had a night vision camera. It clearly showed them having a good old scream - then pausing for a reaction - then another good old scream. Until they finally got bored and just lay down and went to sleep!!! I'm really hoping that's what's happening upstairs now.

[cosmicgirl99]

CC I suppose. In that I have been going in so he knows he's not totally alone but trying not to engage or feed! The crying definitely ramps up when he sees me though. Been quiet ages now so going to try to snooze but expect it won't last long. So hope this works, we are all a bit broken by the sleep issues this time round.

[cosmicgirl99]

I can totally imagine that exact scenario going on in the cot! Clever they are!

[FusionChefGeoff]

Not very helpful thanks. Pretty obvious from the title what the discussion was going to be so please just avoid it if you don't agree with it.

[cosmicgirl99]

Hahahahaha at least that's made me smile at my next wake up call, thanks caravanista. I may be tired but thankfully not so insecure to be upset by your (idiot on Facebook worthy) nonsense. Sorry to disappoint, perhaps you can find some other struggling mums overnight to kick while they're down...

Hope it's going better for you FusionChefGeoff.

[TeamBacon]

We've had to do it recently for our almost 2yo. Slept fine, something went wonky, then weeks of pissing about. We did controlled crying again, which worked like a dream at about 14mo, but this time it just didn't. Going in each time just resulted in rage! He was exhausted, he just needed to sleep, and after we put him in the cot, we went back in once, gave him a huge cuddle and told him it was bedtime now. Was about 20 mins of crying, with pauses to check and listen out. I always said I'd never do it, but in this case it was appropriate and the right thing to do. After weeks of him being upset at bedtime, and waking frequently, he's now back to normal and sleeping well, and he's so much happier for it.


And it's not fucking child abuse, if it's done properly. Ffs.

[TeamBacon]

BTW, it took 3nights. First about half an hour of crying, including much rage, second night was five mins, then third night barely a squeak.

We have slightly changed the bedtime routine, too, which has helped. He just doesn't want to go to bed, just wants to stay downstairs and play with his sister.

[lloydlf76]

Your one year old is literally screaming out for you for hours at a time and you want your hand holding. They are not clever they are desperate, upset, confused, frightened and using the only means available to them to let you know. The twins in the cot are not looking for a reaction they are waiting for the people they trust to come to them. Honestly the idea that babies are these cunning,manipulative masterminds is farcical. It's been proven that babies subjected to CIO and CC don't 'learn'to self settle they just give up hope of anyone ever coming and stop crying to preserve energy. Prolonged crying which isn't let with a living response also permanently affects the brain chemistry of a baby.

Go to your child! They need you.

[TeamBacon]

1. It's minutes, not hours, and resulted in less time crying in total
   
2. Hid sleep hit back to normal very quickly, he's back to his normal self again
   
3. I always thought the thing about babies being clever and manipulative. Of course younger babies aren't, but my 1yo certainly is.

[FusionChefGeoff]

Thanks TeamBacon and morning Cosmic.

Well I think that's gone as well as expected at this stage. She settled after 45 mins so much quicker than Sunday and then woke very briefly but had settled back before I even came to which is great.

I feel much more normal after the first decent stint of sleep in weeks so hope I'll be a much better daytime parent.

And I hardly think 3/4 nights is enough to change brain chemistry! Those studies were based on Romanian orphanages not a warm and loving home where for 23hrs out of 24 she is showered with love and affection. This very short process will not even register. And again, if you disagree, just stay away from the topic it's not AIBU.

How did you get on Cosmic?

[Hoplikeabunny]

I didn't do this, and my son slept terribly until he was two and a half, couldn't self settle, woke multiple times, wouldn't sleep in his own bed, literally hasn't slept in the day since 3 months old, went to bed at midnight, etc etc.

So please, the people who are saying it's child abuse, what is the answer? What do you do to get a child to sleep? Are you the same people who say that co-sleeping is an abomination, because where else was my child supposed to sleep, when he literally wouldn't sleep anywhere except on me until he was 2.5 years old.

I can't help but wonder whether the people who are crying 'child abuse' here, are the lucky ones who had children who slept, could be put down and didn't have any sleep issues.

[Queendedede]

I think it's all a matter of opinion/parenting choice. My 19mo sleeps in his own bed in his own room, settles well on his own at bedtime but still wakes frequently. I choose to go to him as I know he can self settle so he must need me for something when he wakes during that night. If that need is just reassurance then who am I to teach him that isn't a valid reason so needs to be ignored? Parenting is a 24/7 job, I don't stop being responsive just because it is dark outside.

There are obvious extremes though and measures you can take to improve. For instance, I couldn't live like you did Hop but like you say, there is no easy answer!

[Anastasie]

I think leaving a baby to cry is really off.

Sorry - her needs have to come first.

[Anastasie]

CC within reason, Ok

CIO = shit

[TeamBacon]

I thought that too. With this child, it's the correct approach.

[Anastasie]

What an hour and fifteen minutes of crying unattended? How can that be correct for any child?

[TeamBacon]

I think as a one off, when you've exhausted other options, is fine actually.

[cabbageleaf]

Hoplikeabunny, this is what I've always thought too: it must be those with good sleepers who are so dead against this kind of sleep training. It is only when you've got to a certain point of sleep deprivation, and your child is exhausted too by lack of sleep, that you can understand why people resort to these methods. People like caravanista are just pathetic - and never offer any practical advice anyway, just meaningless phrases!

[Anastasie]

What other options has the OP exhausted? CC would be a start, or shush-pat or the no cry sleep solution - anything is better than CIO. IMO of course

[Anastasie]

Mine have all slept normally, like babies do - crying at times, sleeping well at others.

I co sleep, fed on demand and got the most sleep I could that way I think - at least I didn't have to lie there for over an hour while they cried.

I don't get this method at all. And I agree it borders on abuse though I don't doubt you love your child OP - you clearly do which is why it upsets you to do it.

[FusionChefGeoff]

She wasn't crying constantly. It was more like 20 - 30 secs max of shouty crying, then a break. The breaks were over a minute. And got longer. If I went back in, she got more upset so I decided not to.

And it was shouty crying - not upset crying. And it's only for 4 nights tops. If it doesn't improve (which it already has) I will re-think.

She seems very smiley so far this morning so I'm pretty sure I haven't damaged her psychologically just yet.

And, again, didn't ask for opinions, I am well aware of the counter arguments but have made this decision based on my child and my family.

[HalfStar]

Sometimes though the thing is the famous co-sleeping and feeding on demand stuff just doesn't work with some babies and nothing but nothing will get them back to sleep. Months and months on end of this - years, sometimes. You've tried everything else. If they would settle in your bed that would be happy days but some babies won't. They get more and more wired, your arms are seizing up from rocking and shushing, you've been on your feet all day and you have work and/other children you have to be there for too. If you don't understand why some parents consider or resort to CC/CIO then I doubt you've ever been at that real stage of sleep deprivation when it's started to affect the health of everyone in the family: the baby is pale and miserable all day and the parents are like ghosts.

Anastasie you are right that a baby's needs have to come first and babies need SLEEP.