we need a strategy!

[rhetorician]

we have two dds, one 6, one 3.5. Bedtimes are awful. We usually take them up around 7-7.30 - teeth, PJs, bed. We used to tell them stories, but they just mucked about and interrupted all the time, so I don't do this anymore. Main issues are:

1. them wanting one of us but not the other
   
2. 3yo needing someone to stay with her - howls and cries if we don't (We would be OK staying if it didn't take well over an hour)
   
3. 3yo messing about endlessly - talking, fidgeting etc
   
4. 6yo I think would probably be OK if left to own devices, but she does play with toys for ages, instead of settling down to sleep
   

Of course all of this means that noone wants to babysit them, either (can't blame them).

How can we enforce better bedtime routine, and ideally be able to tuck them in and leave them to it?

[FATEdestiny]

Frankly, this sounds more like a behaviour issue than a sleep issue.

A child with clear boundaries of what is acceptable and what isn't is likely to be more contented and calmer.

Your comment about not reading a story anymore would suggest behaviour issues here and that you need to establish some acceptable behaviour boundaries. It is a big shame that your children should miss out on bedtime stories with Mummy and Daddy.

So establish some firm and clear bedtime rules and bedtime routine and be consistent in applying them. I wouldn't tolerate any messing around, playing or anything like that at bedtime.

[rhetorician]

yes FATEdestiny I think it is a behaviour issue. We do have pretty clear boundaries - which she pushes all the time because she is very stubborn she is three, and most of the time she is a happy little girl. I often do tell them a story, but if they sit up or misbehave then I stop. You make it sound very easy!

[FATEdestiny]

Oh it's not easy, I didn't mean to belittle the challenge ahead.

Given that the girls are already used to boundaries, they just need extending into bedtime and holding firm, as it were. I understand this is easier said that done. It will no doubt involve lots of tears and tantrums and hard work at first.

Are they in different rooms?

If there is argument about which parent does which then I would be a team effort. Could your 6 year old entertain herself for half an hour while you and DH together do the 3 year olds bedtime? Divide and conquer the girls.

Mummy, Daddy, DD2 all together for teeth, PJs, Story, Bed. Kiss goodnight and explain that you are now going to put DD1 to bed so will come back to DD2 afterwards. Then leave.

Leaving (ie not staying with her at bedtime) will take some work and will be difficult at first. So explain what will be happening way before bedtime so both know. You will put DD1 to bed, Mummy and Daddy giving her sole attention. Then will leave her while they deal with DD2. But will come back.

The Mummy, Daddy, DD1 all together for teeth, PJs, story and bed. Kiss goodnight and leave.

Go back to check on DD2 but don't stay. Agree to hang around upstairs.

Both girls may respond well to sticker charts. DD1 gets a sticker if she stays in bed while you do DD2s bedtime. DD2 gets a sticker if she plays quietly while you do DD1s bedtime. Then both girls get another sticker if they stay in bed afterwards. Then a special gift or day out if they get, say, 10 stickers each over a week.

I realise I am blasé about 'just leave her to go to sleep' and she'll scream and scream and this will be horrendous. You will need to agree a plan of action in dealing with this with DH. Be it safety gate on the door and just ignore while you both put DD2 to bed. Or you agree one of you will keep returning DD2 to bed while the other does DD1s bedtime.

[rhetorician]

to be fair DD1 is pretty good (within normal 6 year old limits) and the evenings where we manage to put them to bed separately was very easy. Problem is that DP (we are same-sex couple, but no reason why you would get that from my OP) and I aren't always both here at bedtime. They share a room. DD1 would sit in front of TV or play for a bit on her own probably. And yes, DD2 will scream - so lots of reassurance needed there. Thanks for the very long reply - really useful and much appreciated.

[FATEdestiny]

My apologies for assuming

Good luck!

[rhetorician]

that's OK - it's a reasonable assumption!