Terrible sleeper - 16 week old

[Mrsj1605]

Hi

I am new to this but was wondering if anyone had any advice.... I have a 16 w.o. DS who started of a great little sleeper, would have his bad nights but was building up his sleep so eventually he would be asleep about 7 then up at oneish then fourish before starting the day between 6 - 7. For the last month it has all give downhill and now he is up at about ten and one then hourly thereafter.

He goes to sleep really easily at bedtime and although sometimes he just passes out I try to avoid feeding to sleep and if I lay him on his side and sing him a wee song he falls asleep peacefully.

I ebf but tempted to move on to bottles at least some of time to get some rest as I have a three year old also.

Any help appreciated...

[caeleth84]

Tough one.. Most likely it's the 3-4 month sleep regression, so there's probably not much to do about it other than persevere :( Not a great answer I know, but I don't know if I'd majorly change anything at that young age. Bottlefeeding won't make him sleep better, though it would obviously give you a little rest if someone else could take a feed - so expressing might certainly be worth a try.

Otherwise, do you have anyone (DH/DP/..) who could take them both in the mornings so you can catch up a little? I found that even an hour in the morning helps a LOT. It took a bit of persuasion, but DH now does all the mornings here and lets me sleep in (which is only 30-60 mins in the weekdays, but I can usually get an hour or two extra in the weekends). Saved my sanity.

[Mrsj1605]

My dh has been great and helping out by taking him from about fiveish which has made a great difference. I guess it has just been going on so long no I feels there no end in sight! Do / did you little one not sleeping that great? I had forgotten how all consuming it can be!

My lo still feeds every couple of hours and it takes about forty five minutes so don't think I have the time to squeeze in any expressing.

Will just keep reminding myself it's just a phase.,,!

[caeleth84]

That's good then, it really did make the world of difference to me as well. DS actually slept really well up from 7 weeks until around 3 months, up to 7 hours. But then he hit the regression and went down to 3 hours, then 2, and sometimes hourly. It was rather hellish for a while, but by 5 months he was at 2-3 feeds a night, so back up to 2-3-4 hours at least. From about 7 months he was reasonably consistent at 2 feeds a night, but stayed there till well over a year (but then a feed would take max 5 mins and he'd dropp off immediately, so didn't feel all that bad).

He ought to get more efficient at feeding soon though, so at least feeds won't take so long. Can't remember exactly when, but it certainly felt a lot better once DS only spent 10-15 mins on a full feed.

[Mrsj1605]

Thanks for getting back again. Sound a like your little one was very similar to mine. Teased us with a good start! It is good to know I am not alone and that it gets better. Thanks again!

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

Can I ask about your bedtime routine? It sounds as though he has a feed to sleep association which is typical sleep regession stuff but I like to think that there is something to be done about it.

Basically, even though he doesn't feed to sleep directly, it is very much in his routine. I would suggest bringing this forward in the routine so pjs, milk downstairs in the lounge then upstairs for a book, cuddle and in his cot awake. Ideally then settling himself to sleep. If he needs you to fall asleep as most babie will at 4 months then try and settle in his cot using shhh-pat or similr.

You know that he can go for 6 hours or so from bedtime so I would set a limit to not feed before then unless you want to try a dreamfeed. Then don't feed for another 3 hours and then not again before morning.

If you can, use your best resource in this scenario - your DH/DP/random from the street to settle instead of you.

I hope this helps!!

[Mrsj1605]

Normally he has a bath, then feed straight after it when he often passes out. I have been trying to break the habit of feeding to sleep so if possible I wake him before he goes in his cot when I then pop him on his side and sing a song / pat his bottom. My kind of weird take of ssh pat!

I think you are right though, he still very much associates feeding with sleep. My thought had been to switch round so that I feed him downstairs and then up for a bath / wee massage then into his cot awake and I settle him as above. What do you think? I also think his bedtime might be too late. He is normally asleep about sevenish, which sounds sensible but often means he is up for three hours by this point. During the day I try to make it no more than two hours between naps and he goes down fairly easy settled in usual way. So maybe bring bedtime forward a bit?

Even though I know he can go longer between feeds at night I really feel I have made a rod for my own back by feeding him straight away when the earlier wakenings started happening. So a month in he is probably now hungry about ten. Maybe a dream feed would be a way round it. I tried last week a couple of times to settle him without feeding him at ten and it ended up a two and half hour debacle to get him back to slerp.

Thanks for replies, it really helps getting other peoples perspective.

[caeleth84]

I really wouldn't worry about the feeding to sleep at this age. They grow out of it when they're ready to, and forcing them possibly does more harm than good. Gently nudging I wouldn't worry about, so by all means try patting to sleep, putting down awake first, but don't withold milk and start a battle about it just for the sake of it. They're just not capable of understanding it.

DS fed to sleep until about 5 months, then took a two month break where he'd unlatch, roll over and fall asleep. Then he suddenly wanted to feed to sleep again. If they need the reassurance, why not give it? He gradually stopped again at just over a year, all by himself. Tbh it was a godsend to know that I could feed him to sleep without any problems. Travelling, on a plane, out for the day, visiting other people, hotels, strange beds, etc etc... I wish I still had that option sometimes (4 hour plane ride I'm looking at you).

There are many growth spurts around this age too, so definitely don't limit night time feeds to 6 hours. Several experts don't recommend night weaning till they hit a year, as babies can still physically need to feed at night until then. Obviously not all do, but very, very many do.

One study found that only 16% of babies slept through at 6 months... It is perfectly normal and acceptable for them to wake more often and feed when they're little. Tough though ;)

Let me know if you'd like some links to read.

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

Mrs, I think that feed then ready for bed is worth a go. DS used to be in the bath for a while so I used to do it after PJs but we only bathed 2/3 times a week as he had dry skin.

If he goes to sleep easily at 7 and isn't overtired, a slightly longer last awake period isn't always a bad thing.

[Mrsj1605]

I don't want to withhold milk or have battles but just think that getting up hourly, sometimes from as early as one in the morning isn't a milk issue, it seems to me it must be a sleep issue. I fully expect to feed my DS at least twice at night, would just be great to go back to how it was when after his last feed overnight he would go another three hours till morning.

Maybe I am looking for a magic cure that doesn't exist!

I tried last night doing feed then bath and bed and got him to sleep eventually but proved an even worse night than usual!

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

Mrs, these things are worse then better. Please persevere for 2 more nights and see how you go.

[Mrsj1605]

Think I will, nothing to loose. Just saw the health visitors for little ones jags. She recommended an even later bedtime and no sleep during the day except for between hours of ten and three. Any one else think this is bad advice?! That would mean up for three or hours in morning. Seems a bit cruel.

[caeleth84]

Seems like really bad advice! It'll just mean a massively overtired baby all day, and mostly likely a bad night's sleep anyway. DS always sleeps horribly when he's been over tired.

At that age it'll be a rare baby that lasts longer than 2 hours awake without getting overstimulated and overtired. I think DS was still at 1-1.5 hours...

Generally my HV recommended that if kids got up early or didn't seem to sleep enough, put them to bed earlier.

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

I@d reckon that your HV is either old or doesn't have children. That's very outdated advice.

As Caeleth says, the optimum awake time length at 16 weeks is between 1.25-1.75 hours, so you would ideally start think about settling to sleep after an hour and a bit.

[Mrsj1605]

That's what I thought about longest awake time as well - glad I'm not the only one!! I thought I was doing well getting him to take three or four naps a day, albeit not the longest only to get shot down!

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

No, 3-4 naps is perfect.

I do know a few babies who have sttn very early on but have never really napped for more than 10 minutes a couple of times a day. They have definitely regressed though.

[Mrsj1605]

Thanks everyone. Chose to ignore advice as little man needs to sleep sometimes! I gave him an earlier bedtime and feed then bath (which he is absolutely fine with) and it didn't help at all!

Back to the drawing board...!!