what am I doing wrong? or does my baby just hate me?!

[gibbly]

DD is 4 and a half months. She used to be good at night but has always been terrible at sleeping in the day. We've been trying to get her in a routine... She won't have any of it. We've been trying to get her to self settle...again she's not having it. Now she's started getting up at 4 or 5 am every day and despite my best efforts won't have a proper sleep in the day, maybe half an hour at best maybe 2 or 3 times a day. I'm going out of my mind and don't know what to do!!!!

[keepitgoing]

hi. how soon after waking are you trying to get her to sleep? should be 1.5-2 hours only. mine is 6m and still only at 2 hours.

[keepitgoing]

what sort of routine are you aiming for? going from time of last sleep has been much better for me as the 'textbook' routine of long sleeps she'd never go that long.

how are you trying to get her to sleep? I'd first try and get her sleeping, then worry about location and self settling

[QuietNinjaTardis]

and I am right there with you gibbly.

[sososotired]

My son is really bad at sleeping, day and night! He is 9 months old (next week) and I forced him into a daytime routine at 6 months. My theory was that it doesn't matter how he got to sleep what matters was that he slept. I rocked/ walked him to sleep 3 times a day and in the beginning it felt useless but we kept going, his naps totalled 3.5h a day so you can imagine that my buggy and I became good friends! Once he got into the routine I started getting him to nap in his bed, so with sleeping bag on and I read a story, he now has 2 naps in the day. And sleep has improved at night ( most nights).
The HV told me he is over tired that's why he didn't sleep well at night?
So I guess after that long story my advice would be keep going she needs to nap she will get into a routine eventually just look for tired signs rubbing eyes, yawning ect if you catch them in time they tend to go to sleep easily. Rule of thumb try to get her to nap every 2.5-3 hours.

[sososotired]

Ps with regards to early rising maybe bed time is too early?

[gibbly]

Sorry that it's long but here's the looong story of what she's like. She's used to being rocked/cuddled to sleep mostly by me which if she's really tired doesn't take long til I can put her down but in the day it takes up to 40 minutes til I can get her in her cot and even then she'll only go down for about half hr. She is over tired which means she's grizzly alot of the time but I don't know how to break the cycle. If I take her out in the pram she might sleep while I'm out but as soon as I get to the front door her eyes are open again. I don't know when to set her bedtime but don't feel I have much control over it anyway as she's so tired from not sleeping in the day that she falls asleep early. I have been trying the nap every 2 hours buy not too late in the afternoon and she has a bath and music routine before she goes to bed, she will have a couple of good nights but mostly she's up every 3 hours or so.

[sososotired]

That sounds just like my DS. I let him nap on me some days just so that he got some rest? 30 mins is better than nothing!
We did also feed mostly 3 hourly at night and to be honest I don't have a miracle cure I kept doing it because giving him water or nothing got him so worked up that it often took 2/3 hours to get him back to sleep he spaced them himself so we feed at 11 and then 4ish at the moment.
If he gets up at 5 I treat it like night time no talking no lights nothing just a pat on the bottom and I cuddle and back in bed?

How does she fall asleep at night? We feed dis and put him in his bed drowsy but awake so he falls asleep by himself.
I don't know if your the same but I'm rather jealous of people with babies that sleep through the night but my child is not ready for that he is a skinny little boy non of the clothes that he is tall enough for fits his waste so I'm thinking he obviously needs the extra calories from his milk at night?!

[keepitgoing]

I agree, get her to nap anyhow first. on you, moving buggy - I'm always out with the blasted thing. I have to say for us naps don't seem to help the crappy night sleep, but do mean my baby girl is sunny in the day.

[OnaPromise]

Four and a half months is a really common time for them to do this - google '4 month sleep regression.' Because they have a massive brain development and the world is just too interesting, they don't want to miss anything.

So you are not doing anything wrong. Although you may not want to hear this because it's harder so say what is the 'right' thing to do.

We had dd sleeping in a sling during the day ( a wrap around one and we used to bounce on the birthing ball manically until she went to sleep). Otherwise she would only sleep for really short snaps. I didn't get her to sleep properly until we resorted to sleep training when she was older.

If it's any consolation my dd is still very curious about stuff, and doesn't miss a thing! So it's a good quality in the long run.

One thing springs to mind is the lighter mornings - have you got black out curtains?

[gibbly]

I have wondered if it's sleep regression as she's always been a bad napper in the day but was good at night. I have also thought the earlier mornings could be disturbing her but she can be just as difficult to settle in the middle of the night? Actually going to bed is the easy part I think it's the bottle bath bed clothes that she knows it's time for bed and it also tires her out as she gets very excited having a bath and we let her play for abit. If it is sleep regression how long does that last???

[sososotired]

Depends on the baby DS sleep regression at 4 months passed in a week or so, 8 months is doubled up with teeth so still not over it ;)

[gibbly]

Well have discovered the only place she will easily nap is in our bed. Put her in there this morning and couldn't believe it when she just yawned, closed her eyes and went to sleep! She's never done that anywhere before ever! I don't want to start a new bad habit of her sleeping in our bed especially as she's started to roll about though, feel like I'm in shock as nap time is usually tears, screaming and fighting it to the end

[sososotired]

I guess the good thing is she is sleeping! Maybe pop a pillow under the sheets on both sides just to keep her from rolling off?
I know what you mean with creating a bad habit my DS has taken to sleeping with us at night, arg! :( o well we are all sleeping this way!
Well done for having a nap!! Good luck for keeping it going!

[FobblyWoof]

I think the first thing to tackle is getting her to sleep more. Getting her to self settle and getting her to sleep in her cot can wait for now as trying to do these things with an overtired baby is only going to end one way.

My DS is the same age and we've just started doing naps in his cot during the day as he's outgrown his carrycot we were using in the lounge. He can normally be awake for 2-2.5 hours before he's ready for a nap. I'm finding that if I leave him until he's starting to rub his eyes and showing other signs that he's tired it's a lot harder to get him to sleep than if preempt it. You might have more success getting her to sleep if you base her naps on a rule of 2 hours from her last sleep.

Some babies like to be cuddled, rocked, pushed back and forth, or left alone to sleep. You might already know what your dd prefers, so do that at nap time and once she's having regular sleeps then work on self settling etc.

[FobblyWoof]

Helps if I read the whole thread before posting! Glad she's settled in your bed. That's definitely something you can work with in regards to self settling and getting her to settle in her own bed!

[GotAnotherQuestion]

I wonder what it was about your bed? Perhaps the comfort of your smell? If so, that old trick of placing a used pillow case or t shirt in with baby might help.

I know that it doesn't help you now, but babies sometimes have to mature and 'grow into' good sleep patterns - not all, just some.

The other thing I've noticed is how some babies insist on sleeping in the same place every single day, or they simply won't sleep longer than 15-30 min at a time. My second was one of these! Very frustrating in the sense that it tied me down to the house if I didn't want a tired and grumpy baby all day, but also a relief that something finally worked.

Sometimes it's a case of try it and see, but it often takes a little while to get there so hang in there!

[gibbly]

Just tried for over 30 minutes to try and get her to sleep but got so fed up of the crying I gave up and brought her back into the living room. I know she won't sleep now meaning she'll go to bed early meaning we're in for a mega shit night I'm just Fed up of her constant grizzling :-(

[sososotired]

Ok I know this sound wierd but do u have sleep cues for her? Like music you

[sososotired]

Sorry DS grabbed my phone

Music you play at bed time or putting her in a sleeping bag?
I found that my sleep resister knew what was coming when I put him to bed like night time minus the bath?

[GotAnotherQuestion]

Gibbly - it's not always true that late afternoon snoozes equals bad night sleep. I had a child who slept 4;30-5pm and I was worried he wouldn't be tired at 6:30-7pm, but he was. On the rare occasion I tried to keep him going to secure myself a good night sleep it backfired and I can only think it was because he was overtired. It's almost like sleep breeds sleep.

I wonder if it would help to do the same routine and sleep in the same place day and night, so the cues are continuous throughout the day and in time will sink in?

[gibbly]

I do try to follow the same routine she has at night but without the bath but it doesn't seem to work. I fought for 40 minutes to try and get her to sleep but everytime I go to put her in her cot she either opens her eyes and starts grizzling before she even gets to the mattress or she wakes up and lays there singing. I'm now sat on the sofa with her asleep on me dying of thirst and feeling like I might pee myself. I love her but dear God I just want to be able to put her down once in a while

[sososotired]

I guess the positive is thar she had a nap? My dear sweet sleep resister "grew out" of napping in my arms I read somewhere that you need to wait 10 minutes before moving a sleeping baby from your arms to a cot? Works 9 times out of 10 with DS but there is always that one time that I have to sit quietly for an hour!

[gibbly]

Trouble is she still doesn't nap properly on me maybe just over half an hour if I'm lucky. Think I might just have to aaccept that she's just not a great sleeper

[imaginative]

You poor thing. It is strange but quite often babies that slept very well at first will suddenly change at around 5 months old. My second son was like that. In fact, after that age it was very rare for him to sleep at all during the day. My first son was the opposite. For the first month I never got more than an hour's sleep a night it was just awful. But he slept fine during the day. Sorry not much help, but I believe they are what they are and you can have two completely different experiences with two different children, despite doing everything the same.

[minipie]

Yep you need her to sleep more in the day to break the overtiredness cycle. Once she's not so overtired it should be easier to get her back to sleep if she wakes at 4am, as she won't be so "wired" from the overtiredness. Also you may find she sleeps longer than 30 minutes. The only thing I can suggest to fix the overtiredness is a LOT of hours pushing the pram. Tiring but it does work.