10mths old- still waking in night- any advice

[JoBaz]

Hi

Have got a breastfeeding thread & been advised to start a sleep one as my DS still wakes in the night- I have had probably 7 nights total (not in a row) where he has slept maybe a 7 - 9 hour stretch- & then bang- the next day- back to normal-

Hes breastfed & isent the clingy boobie type baby- by that I mean- he takes his milk & then pushes boobie away- has never really used it for comfort. But he just cant seem to have a steeled sleep? hes constantly chucking hinself around the cot, banging off the bars & waking himself up- on a good night I get 2 callings- he goes down at 7 - 7.30- wakes at around 1 & then again at 4ish & up at 7... thats a fab night!!
However most nights are not like this- I can get called around 7 or more times a night- & each time is NOT to have boobie- in fact if I try & give it he pushes it away- its like he knows it will get him back to sleep & he dosent want to!! (Max he feeds in night is twice-)
He just seems to fight sleep- hes not always crying, hes just standing up, making very load groaing noises to his teddy! I have ignored him & lay there listening to him for 90minutes before now & then he just ends up crying & just wont go back off till I sit & cuddle him till he drops off. Hes like the terminator!! I know he needs the sleep too- cos hes always tired the next day- hes the same with the day naps- short- as soon as he wakes up- instead of rolling back over hes up on his feet & wants to get up- despite the fact hes absoultly exhausted! He has no OFF switch!

what makes me frustrated is the nights he is better & only wakes maybe once or twice & when I go in hes laying down & I just give dummy & thats that- yet other nights hes up-banging the bars & no way will go back off without a fight!
I make all his food- all natural- no sugar/colours- so what the hell is going on?? alot I have put down to his teeth- he cut 8 in about 10wks & had a very hard time-but even now they are through (& hopefully will be a while before back ones through) hes still bad- last night- he was great till 1- fed him- then he was messing around from about 4.30- constantly groaning, banging the bars-etc...

I have got to say that hes now 10 mths & the lack of sleep is taking its toll- the breastfeeding together with the lack of sleep I think is the reason some days Im just half dead!& why too lately some days I feel terribly down.

xx

[liquidclocks]

Hi JoBAZ, slight bump for you and also a link for you with helpful advice (scroll down a bit for older babies).

Have to say it sounds behavioural to me. With DS we cut the dummy out at 3 months and gave him a muslin to snuggle but if he ever chucks it out of his cot all hell breaks loose! Thankfully for us it's rare. Is there anyway you can tie the dummy to the cot so it's accessible? Other than that I'd say go in and let him know you're there but don't speak or pick him up and leave asap. It depends on how you feel about it but as it says on the website I've linked to the most important thing you can do is have resolve and stick to whatever you decide.

Good luck, hope you get some advice here that helps you get some sleep.

[JoBaz]

thank u- i will have a read.however- the dummy thing- well after about 5 mins of being in bed- it gets spa out- Id say- 80% of the nights- he wont take it again oe the rest of the night- as I think its the same as the breastfeeding thing- he knows if he starts sucking it- game over!

[JoBaz]

Just want to add here- as I forgot to say earlier- he dosent really seem to want me to start with when I go in at first- its only after like 90 minutes of playing up he then wants a cuddle & sleep- before this- if I pick him up he squirms & wriggles & tries to get me off him- again I think cos hes fighting going to sleep- He must be the only baby on earth that will NOT go to sleep in our bed- YES- we have tried it in desperation- thinking he would love it- No- all he tries to do is get up & then cries when he wont let him, he just dosent seem to be conforted by being in our bed- sometimes we honestly do think he's mad!! I mean- what baby wouldnt like to sleep in bed with Mummy & Daddy? especially when breastfed- NOT him- he just wants to do anything BUT go to sleep

[liquidclocks]

How's his daytime sleep?

[Hattie05]

Hi JoBaz, i have just replied on your other thread so you will see that i co-slept with my daughter. but i did always try to get her to go to sleep in her own cot and then when she woke around midnight she'd get in with us for the rest of the night (becuase like you i didn't have the energy to stay up with her!) but thats no help to u as your son won't sleep in your bed.

How does your son go down at the beginning of the night? In my experience once my dd was able to put herself to sleep, she was better and putting herself back to sleep if she woke in the night also.

Once my dd was just over a year ( so a little older than your son) we got rid of the cot because of the banging on bars and the fact she fell out one night when i tried to leave her crying! i put a matress on the floor and the only way to get her to sleep was to read books to her in really long boring voices or sing really slooooow songs in boring voices.
Getting rid of the cot helped as it meant i could lay down with her and kinda pin her in in a kind way and she'd be forced to lay still and listen to my boring voice .
Once i'd mastered getting her to sleep this way things improved and she was less fidgety and i did the usual cutting down on amount of attention until eventually a year later at the age of two she was able to be left to go to sleep on her own after a bedtime story and this impacted on her night wakings - to the point that they stopped happening at all.

[99redballoons]

Hi Jo, after reading lots of threads on mn about sleep the key things seem to be getting them to settle and resettle by themselves, little or no attention, as mentioned be very boring, no eye contact, no fumbling from one thing to the next cos even though you're not 'playing' with him, all the visits and trying one thing or another is attention still the same.

Now I'm no expert, but we learnt the hard way with ds and applied the things we learnt with dd and she's been a brilliant sleeper (touch wood!). With ds we used to tuck him in tight, hold his hand, rock, hold both hands, feed, sing & rock, pickup/putdown and nothing worked (we tried all these things for a number of weeks at a time). Eventually enough was enough and we left him to work it out for himself with me visiting every 5mins, no eye contact, check he's ok and out the door again. Sometimes he'd play, sometimes he'd cry (only once or twice really hard for about 10mins solid), but in the end (over about three nights we did this) he learnt to settle by himself (no boob) and resettle in the middle of the night. He only ever used to sleep for 45mins stretches in the day and the resettling at night, amazingly, helped him resettle in the day and he moved to having 1.5hr nap/s.

With dd, once she was on solids and I knew getting enough milk/food in the day, this was around 5.5/6mo, we left her to resettle at night and she grizzled for about 10mins, 10mins hard, 10mins grizzle, then off to sleep. It only took the one night. Whenever she's woken in the night since I've put it down to teeth, gave her some bonjella & a cuddle, walked out and she'd go off to sleep within a few mins.

Now, I don't like the idea of leaving them to it myself, so I went in every 3-5mins to check on them, sometimes would pickup, cuddle for a couple of mins or until calm, and would put them back in say 'it's time to sleep', or say nothing at all, and walk out. No eye contact is sooooo important. I knew they were safe, they hadn't hurt themselves, knew they were tired and I knew they would go to sleep at some point (Twiglett told me this, they're in the safest place they could be[in their cot]). DD has a muslin to cuddle, ds never took to one. Neither had a dummy so can't comment on that. There are lots of small/medium soft toys in there to 'buffer' the edges (had to take out bumper around 7mo). Both of mine are/were in Grobags.

Whatever you and dh decide to try I think you have to stick to the plan for atleast 2-3 nights. It takes that long to break a habit. I also think your ds is caught in that over-tired circle and things won't improve until he gets more sleep. They (meaning mine) always have a couple of bad days if they miss out on sleep and it takes a bit of effort to get them back on track. I suggest you agree on a plan of action and try the first night when you have a few days when you're not going out etc. and you can concentrate on putting him to bed and down for naps before he gets over-tired. The first night is always the hardest.

Sorry it's so long. Will follow this thread to see your updates.

[JoBaz]

Thank U for all your advice- deep down I know I have to be harder- but when im sooo tired i suspose I just resort to the most succesfull way- breastfeed! I just need t be stong & do it.... its the tiredness that lets me down- 10 mths of rubbish sleep & feeding has run me down

Daytime naps- they vary- some days he will do 30 mins- but most days its abour 1.5 hours in morning & about 1 - 1.5 hours in afternoon. I try really hard to get him to take his daytime naps- cos I know the better sleep they have in the day the better the night sleep. he will very rarely fall asleep in his pram or not always fall asleep in his car seat- he likes his cot!! which is good- but a pain sometmes when your shopping & hes screaming in the pram tired & will just not shut off!!
In case any of you read my other thread about him banging off the bars & thats why I think he constantly wakes- I have found a full size travel cot- its from mamas & papas- its called the vogue- you can buy & extra padded matress for it if you want to use it all the time- but as its happens- this is the same size as his current mattress & so I can out this inside- It has net sides & so hopefully- he wont hit himself off the bars all night long & so may sleep better- I tried this with the travek cot we have at the moment (its a bit crappy-with a very thin mattress, hence why im going to get a new one) & he did sleep better for 3 nights- first night he went 9 hours- second he did all night from 7.30-7am with just one waking at 1am & third night not too bad- but then 4th night was crap again !! so...... I dont know- maybe im wasting my money- but I think its wirth a go??
I have founs a Mamas & papas travel vcot that is full size

[JoBaz]

Just wanted to add- Last night- he was terrible !! God knows why. but he was- He got himself off to sleep- but I could hear him crashing around non stop all evening through the monitor- I knew it would be a bad night- he just sounded so unsettled- & I was right- I must have had to go into him about 12 times last night !!

Now tonight- so far so good- put him in awake- after about 10 minutes of taking to his bear- off he went & he has been alot more settled- I havent heard the crashing & banging around that I heard last night (Yet !! ) Its just so weird- there is absoultly NO pattern to him whatsoever & thats the frustraiting part-!!!!!!!!!!!!

[horsecrazy]

my two year old son is still waking at 2 years.....he has done this since he was 12months old.........we think it might be growing pains now as he rubs his knees alot.

[99redballoons]

Hi Jo, I think the key is it's ok if he wakes in the night as long as he can get himself off to sleep again. Quite often we hear both ours in the night but don't have to go into them (but their stirrings wake you all the same but atleast you don't have to get out from the warm duvet!). I think it will take a good few weeks before it becomes regular for him, or atleast you'll find a good run of nights and then you'll know what an odd bad night means, eg. teeth, cold, growing pains

Where did the run of good nights happen, your original travel cot or the new one? As with anything I believe they just have to 'get used it' and they'll change soon enough. Does he crawl (ie. have reasonable control of his limbs)? Is he in a Grobag or sheets? A Grobag helps keep legs inside the cot and they wriggle less (both of mine have always been in them and I so believe it has helped with their sleep). A grobag might be cheaper than a new cot, worth a try?

[99redballoons]

Def try to have a day at home if his naps go awry. I find it takes a day, or two!, to catch up on that lost sleep. It's great he settled by himself! It's so hard to be tough when you're so tired, but it really will pay off. Promise.