Schedule changing: will it work? Is it worth it?

[TS123]

My 7 month old DS liked to go to bed at 6pm and wake up at 5am with one bf during the night. He would nap 45min-1h twice per day and was quite happy on this schedule but I was not. I was really struggling to feel human waking up at 5 am, and I tried to get to bed early myself but after 3-4months of this, I still found myself to be soooo tired all the time and this affected my mood and ability to be happy and energetic for my dh and ds during the day. One week ago I started to move his bedtime and naptimes later in an effort to shift his schedule one hour later. I have succeeded in moving his bedtime to 7pm, with naps at 9 and 1. He is starting to wake up later in the morning now between 5:30 and 5:45 BUT, he is overall grumpier, more sleepy and takes crappy naps (20-30 min) - I think this is because I am really stretching him to get him to his new nap times and he is so overtired that he cannot take a solid nap. I am so conflicted as to whether to continue in the hopes that he will "adjust" to the new schedule or to revert back to the old way and continue to suffer the burden of poor sleep myself. I would love to hear other peoples' experiences with this -- how long do I wait it out before giving up?? HELP!!

[riab]

So is he know about 10 months old?

I'd recommend this, if he is waking up between 5.30 and 5.45am, then put him down for his first nap between 8 and 9am - whever he gets tired.
See how long he sleeps for but wake him up after 1 1/2hrs or at 10 o clock whichever is soonest.

Then put him down for his second nap again whenever he gets tired - about 12/1pm.

If he seems to get tired again at 4pmish try a 'powernap' or chill out in front of a DVD or a wlak if he dozes in his pram. (20 minutes)

Get him through to 7pm bedtime.

repeat this for a week, once he is sleeping well at both naptime and hopefully sleeping 7-6am at night try cutting back the morning nap to 45 minutes between 8.30/9 and 9.15/9.45 go with his natural sleep cues. I used to think I had to follow a set time of 3 hrs after he woke up he will be sleepy but ds was often very tired in the mornings and more energetic in the afternoon.

Take about a week to cut back the morning nap and concentrate on the lunchtime nap - ie if mornign sleep ends up being a bit hit and miss thats less important than if he doens't get a good sleep in the middle of the day.

At 15 months ds sleeps 7pm-6am and then naps 12/12.30-2/2.30 pretty consistantly. A little while back he was having a morning nap from 8.30-9am but we dropped that at 13 months and he has slept better at night since then.

[clairemow]

I can totally understand why you want to try and change this TS123! You must be v. tired, esp. if you've got another older child.

It does sound like DS is getting over tired, and it's affecting what was a good routine for him.

Could you make the change more gradually, and stretch him 10 minutes every 3rd day or something? So you slowly get to the 7 pm bedtime over a 3 week or month period? You'll probably have to do the same with the naps as well. It sounds as though, if you've done it in a week, it might have been quite a sudden change for him. If you go more slowly, it will take longer, but should hopefully be less problematic and stressful (for him and you!), and less likely then to affect his sleep at night (I have found with DS that if his day time napping is bad for more than a couple of days at a time, it starts to affect him settling at night, as he gets too over tired).

Like Riab, I found DS at 10 months was often really knackered in the morning, and after waking around 7, was back in bed around 9 (for about an hour or so), and then again around 12/12.30 for a couple of hours, then he could go all afternoon to 7 - seems odd that he was more tired closer to the long night sleep, but it was definitely the way he worked.

good luck!

[TS123]

Thanks for the great advice. I've relaxed up a bit on the rigid naptimes and tried to follow his cues a bit more.This has helped him settle more easily and take better naps. He is now back to 45min-1 hour in AM (8:45/9) and early PM (12:30/1). He is quite tired by 7pm but he isn't too grumpy anymore and settles easily, so I've left out the third nap (which was always a difficult and erratic one). Just to clarify -- he is currently 7 1/2 months old so maybe it's a bit early to be down to 2 naps per day (thoughts?). He still wakes at 5 am or so to be fed but unlike before, he seems to be returning to sleep until 6-6:30AM. This is a better situation for sure but still a bit tough because I don't always get back to sleep! Any thoughts about the 5am feed? Will this habit pass in time? When he starts with table food will he last longer at night? He is currently on small amounts of pureed baby foods three times per day and bf 4 times in the daytime.

[clairemow]

hi there, re. the two naps, I guess it depends how long they are. DS went down to 2 around this age, but if he didn't sleep well at the lunchish one, would often drop off for 20 mins/half an hour later in the afternoon. I think like you say, just read his cues, and you'll all be happy! glad to hear it's got better though, and he's going back to sleep after the 5 am milk. DS never did this, so I can't help on that one, although I bet it's not unusual!!

[TS123]

Thanks clairemow. Unfortunately, what I thought was working well is now possibly backfiring. The last two nights he's awoken 3 times and is hard to settle back to sleep. It's frustrating because I'm not sure if this is because he's getting overtired or because of teething. His naps are typically one hour long, though occasionally, one of them is only 40 min. Compared to what is "average" for babies at this age, I believe this is on the low end for napping. That being said, it's so hard to get him to settle for a third nap, since he's often pretty "geared up" until about 5pm and I've read in more than one source that you should not allow late catnaps (beyond 5 pm) because they'll interfere with bedtime and nighttime sleep. AAHHHH!! HELP!!! I do like your suggestion to try and get him to take a third nap if the lunchtime nap is very short (less than 1 hour), but on other days, is 2 hours of daytime sleep enough? I'm almost tempted to go back to an earlier bedtime since he never put up a fight going down early and he was better rested. Would appreciate any further thoughts on the issue.

[clairemow]

It may be all the changes TS123, it's still not really been very long since you've been trying to change his routine for him. And he could be teething? is he showing any other signs? I'd carry on trying to read his cues, and just making very small changes to his routine, the 10 mins every few days way to try and minimise the disruption.

All babies are different, so it's difficult to say if 2 hours is enough sleep for him - he might just be trying to adjust to the changes still. If he's waking in the night, then maybe he does need a bit more in the day time. I'd try and give it a bit more time if I were you. Also it's so hot again, that can't help.

Trouble is, maybe you do just have an early waker, and whatever time he goes to bed, maybe he will always wake at 5/5.30. Do you have black out blinds in his room? that might help as it'd keep it darker longer.

There might be some real sleep experts lurking somewhere on Mumsnet, but I don't know who they are.

[duvet]

Hi there just interested to see if things have improved for you cos i was thinking of adjusting my dd routine in an attempt to get her to sleep later recently it's been 5.30 am and only sometimes will she go back to sleep after bf, her bedtime varies from 6.30 - 7.30 depending on naps usually only 2 x 1/2 sometimes a third. It's so tiring isn't it, I was thinking of consitently keeping her up til 8 in the hope that after a week or so she'd sleep later. Let me know how it's going.

[TS123]

Duvet, your dd's sleep habits are exactly the same as my ds's used to be! I have to admit that as far as the wake-up time, we seem to have been successful, since most mornings he will now go past 6am (and even go back to sleep after a 5am bf) (knock wood!!). However, the naps have become erratic, some days they are only 30 min and no matter what I do, I cannot get him to take a third nap (so total nap time some days is only 1hour). On these days it's very tempting to put him to bed early again because I fear the "overtired" baby who will wake frequently at night. I've held steady though, and I push him to 7pm and I really think this has helped him sleep later. Now if only he would nap better. If I could offer you any advice, I would say that to see any results, you have to stick to something for a few weeks, not just a few nights, since I understand that babies take that long to adjust their biological clocks to a new schedule. Also, I agree with clairemow when she says that any changes should be gradual - move the bedtime only 10 min later each night to avoid an overtired baby. Also, consider moving the nap times by the same increments since a later afternoon nap will make it easier for your dd to stay up to her new later bedtime (as suggested by Ferber). Hope that helps. Good luck.