Jo Frost Controlled Timed Crying for 9mo baby

(136 Posts)
DrGarnettsWinterMixture Wed 13-Mar-13 20:01:17

Has anyone used Jo Frost's method of controlled crying, or anything similar please? Link here www.jofrost.com/controlled-timed-crying-technique-ctct/

We're desperate, and need very clear guidelines to follow-I nearly had a car accident this morning after ages spent getting him to sleep yesterday, then multiple wakings in the night (including screaming for more than 45 minutes-he was clean, dry, warm, not hungry or thirsty and had had some calpol, no signs of teething other than being very upset). He starts the evenings in his cot and ends up in our bed when we go up about ten.

He took an hour to go to sleep tonight, with hysterical screaming when he was put in his cot, and has woken up three times already. He isn't ill, I'm really sure of this, he just wants us to be there while he sleeps.

I thought he would naturally work towards more time in cot, less in our bed and learn to settle himself, but it just seems to be getting worse, and I was so tired this morning I really frightened myself on the motorway-I think I was almost asleep while I was driving and got way closer to someone than I should, then they had to slam on their brakes.

Please help sad

RooneyMara Tue 19-Mar-13 10:35:34

Indith - it sounds familiar. Mine's only 10 weeks but he does the rooting then crying thing sometimes - I think they want to suck, have you tried your little finger?

Or bite - I don't know if I am right but I think they use their mouths for three things at least - drinking, if it isn't that then wind (gastro-colic reflex, it stimulates their bowel if they suck something) and if it isn't that, then teething, for obvious reasons.

I am simplistic about babies grin

RooneyMara Tue 19-Mar-13 10:37:04

btw dummies are meant to be good for this stuff. I haven't ever managed to get my babies to keep them in their mouths though.

Indith Tue 19-Mar-13 11:24:43

Haha Rooney he has too many teeth to suck a finger! He just bites. He sucked his thumb (and was quite a good sleeper) til he was around 4 months hmm. I get tempted to try a dummy but......

Oh well, he starts with the child minder next week (having so far yelled at her for 2 settling in sessions) so he will I assume figure out a non nipple related way of soothing himself and once he has settled in with her we can try night weaning again. Last attempt curtailed due to his getting a stinking great cold.

RooneyMara Tue 19-Mar-13 12:49:42

Oh God well good luck smile

last time I had one of these it took me MONTHS to realise I was allowed to give him calpol for his teeth instead of being awake all night grin

I'm a bit rubbish
all the best x

nectarini1983 Tue 19-Mar-13 16:57:41

Sleepy....hopefully that'll be the worst nifht amd tomo should be a bit easier.

Last night (night 6). Fell asleep in cot by himself at 7.45ish with no crying. Slept til 6.30!!!!!!

DrGarnettsWinterMixture Tue 19-Mar-13 19:00:25

I'm simultaneously dreading and looking forward to next week, when we'll be starting our sleep training with DS grin some amazing success stories here!

Loislane78 Tue 19-Mar-13 21:35:50

So great to hear the positive stories and in quite a short space of time too smile

Last night:

Put down and asleep instantly with no checks
Dream feed at 10.30
Mini grizzle at 1 so popped dummy in
3am feed
5.30-6 grizzlies and I refuse (am too lazy) to start my day that early so popped her in with us and she 'laid in' until 8! Probably shouldn't have done that, oh well.

Gonna see what happens tonight then will really need to toughen up to prepare myself for weekend night weaning and possible dummy issues. Wish me luck!

whenwilltherebegoodnews Wed 20-Mar-13 07:39:01

Started last night. he cried for 2+ hrs from 11pm, surely that's not right?? He then woke at 5.30 and I couldn't face it again so brought him in with us. so hard sad Does it get easier?

Lois - that sounds exactly like us at about 6-7 months! We still do the popping in with us until 7-8 if LO wakes about 6. No way am I starting my day at 6am!!

Whenwilltherebegoodnews - Did you put him to bed at 11pm? How old is he? Was he just woken for a feed? Your bedtime routine should be about 1-2 hours long (depending on age etc of baby), with the aim to have baby in bed anywhere between 6pm and 8pm. Our 11 month old has a 2 hour bedtime routine now, and is normally in bed between 6.30pm and 7pm. He is very very rarely awake past 7pm.

whenwilltherebegoodnews Wed 20-Mar-13 10:12:58

He goes to bed at 7, self settles well and has a good routine. He wakes randomly in the night and takes forever to settle. He's not hungry, ill or teething. He also settles great for naps. So we are at a loss as to what to do sad

whenwilltherebegoodnews Wed 20-Mar-13 10:13:28

PS he's 8 months

nectarini1983 Wed 20-Mar-13 10:16:18

Whenwilltherebegoodnews....that is rough going. How old is your little one? I dont feel I'm in a position to advise anyone on what to do, can only comment on what mine have done! Does baby know what's coming ie following bath, milk, stories, lullabies, cuddles etc

Night 7, settled in cot and asleep by 7.30 after a bit of fussing getting comfy. Woke and grizzled about 9.30pm, one check and ssshhh stroke then slept til 7.

Sleepyfergus Wed 20-Mar-13 11:32:39

Whenwilltherebegoodnews- hmm, don't know what to advise, how long has he been doing this random night waking?

Louis - sounds good so far! Agree with the early starts, although once I go back to work (couple of weeks) a 6am start is going to be the norm in our house!

Nectarine - I'd say you've cracked it!

Last night (night 2)
Put down at 6.50pm, was asleep before 8min check. She slept for 2.5 hours then woke, but That was down to a pooey nappy. Reckon she's starting teething again, the top front ones :-(

So quick change and she was out before 8 min check. Slept for an hour. It's now 11pm. Did 2,4,8,16 min check and she was not happy. Then it struck me that she was prob getting hungry. So aborted the checks and gave her a feed. After feed, she was asleep just after 4min check. I went back in to pop her blanket on and she woke briefly but then straight back to sleep. And that was her straight through to 6.30am.

I have an issue at the moment with what to dress her in and covers. She's in a vest and baby gro, and for the first half of the night, her room is warm enough that I just pop her down as is. For her crying last night, most of them she did sitting up (as opposed to standing the night before), so it's pointless putting the blanket on her. When I do the lay down and shush, she's immediately sitting up crossly! When I went back in to pop her blanket on last night, she was on her knees and tummy scrunched up against the end of the cot. She had literally fallen asleep mid cry and just slumped I guess! She woke briefly, so I laid her down and put the blanket on but I think she prob squirmed it off, so I have no idea if she actually had the blanket on at all. I guess she would have woken if she was cold though....

Eventually we may go back to gro bags if she learns to just lie and go to sleep when put down for the night.

nectarini1983 Wed 20-Mar-13 13:48:01

Sounds a bit better than first night sleepy.

I had same prob with cover kicking off. So since night 2 I've put my little one in his sleeping bag again but not zipped it up so he doesn't trip on it if he stands up in his cot or end up all twisted up when hwr wriggles about sometimes. He's wearing vest and pjs and socks since night 3 as his feet were cold!

Whenwilltherebegoodnews - what are his naps like during the day? I noticed that when my LO slept badly during the day, he wakes more frequently throughout the night. At 8 months, you're aiming for around 3-4 hours nap a day (maybe spread over 2-3 naps).

Sleepy - We always use a sleeping bag on top of a vest and babygro. I managed to find a bag that didn't have poppers on the shoulders, just one zip up the front which means that he can't escape from it. I put a blanket (tucked in tightly on either side) on top if it's a bit colder.

whenwilltherebegoodnews Wed 20-Mar-13 18:33:18

Yeah naps definitely affect night time. He's only had 2 x 45 mins today shock

Loislane78 Wed 20-Mar-13 19:37:39

whenwilltherebegoodnews (good book BTW smile) sounds quite similar to how my 7 mo DD can sometimes be. 45 mins daytime napper, sometimes goes 1.5 hrs but will happily do 2hrs + if daytime co-sleeping. Regular night wakings for no apparent reason (except perhaps dummy issues for us).

I found daytime nap training (still ongoing) much easier than nighttime - not as tired, worried about waking everyone up etc.

GL to us all for tonight (I wanna sleep at nectarini's house now smile)

whenwilltherebegoodnews - I would try getting him to nap longer in the day. I found that hard, but managed to get it to work after a week or so.

Try and make the second nap (I'm presuming around midday-2pm?) the longer one if you can. When baby wakes at 45 minutes, you can either give him 2 minutes like you would with the CC routine, and then go in to settle. OR at the 45 minute mark (it was more like 40 minutes for my LO) be ready and waiting by the door - as soon as you hear him stir, get in there quickly (and quietly!!) put your hand on him/give dummy and try to help him through the light sleep back into deep sleep. This can take about 15 minutes sometimes. Sometimes I used to just pick LO up straight away and get straight into bed with him, counting to 300. If he wasn't near or actually asleep by that point, I'd get him up. It's hard work, but I'm pretty sure if you can get him napping 1.5-2hours you will get better sleep at night.

whenwilltherebegoodnews Thu 21-Mar-13 06:45:56

Night 2: he woke at 4.45 and it took about an hour, although not constant screaming. He then woke just after 6 for the day (different cries!) which is fine.

He normally naps well, 45 mins in the morning then a couple of hours after lunch but is at the mercy of my DD's routine and sometimes is in and out of the car which isn't great for him.

I feel we are making progress though, thanks for all the suggestions smile

Sounds much better goodnews - So he slept from bedtime till 4.45am (10 hours?), that is brilliant!

DrGarnettsWinterMixture Thu 21-Mar-13 10:18:25

We ended up starting controlled timed crying last night, instead of waiting until next week-DS went down in his cot at 6 as usual, was asleep (had his music mobile on and I was in the room, in the dark, not saying anything) within ten minutes, then woke up at 9. And wouldn't settle, was miserable, shouty, rubbing his eyes and looked shattered. We checked his nappy was clean, that he was warm enough, he wasn't poorly (no teething signs, or any other kind of pain) so we thought as he was so tired and unhappy, we might as well start then-quite a change for us, as usually one of us would have gone to bed at that point and had him in with us, and cuddled him to sleep.

So, got the stopwatch ready, kissed him and said night night, lay him down in his cot and left the room, and gave it two minutes, then went in, lay him down again, hand on his back gently so he calmed down, then left as soon as he was calm. I did it slightly differently to the Jo Frost timings blush because he was so upset, so I did 2 minutes x 2, then 4 minutes x 2, then 6 minutes x 2, then he was asleep. He was very upset, and needed a nappy change during the timed bit, so we did that in the dark, no eye contact, just shushed him gently. Then he threw up sad (he does this sometimes when he is absolutely furious) so clean sheet and sleeping bag, again in the dark, and then he finally went to sleep after the next lot of 6 minutes. So we never got to the 8 minutes out of the room point, but it took about 25-30 minutes, and he slept in his cot until 1, then came in with us.

Is this really pathetic, to be doing it in stages? My hope is that he will learn about sleeping in his cot by himself quickly, then start to sleep for longer than 3.5 hours at a time, so he would stay in his cot later and later, then eventually all night. I can't bring myself to have him crying for half an hour at one in the morning-it's not fair on the neighbours, and I do feel that we've made some progress-any thoughts? Going from very interrupted sleep 6-9, and one of us going to bed at 9 with him, it feels like a step forward that he has managed 6.5 hours in his cot!

nectarini1983 Thu 21-Mar-13 10:52:30

Sounds a really good start. Its very hard to start with but it does pay dividends and quickly.

I stop at 16 min check but only had to repeat that once on night 1.

I decided to go cold turkey and do cc in the night too else he'd have quickly sussed that if he wakes he could come in with us as hed been doing so it wouldn't have solved my problem and I didnt want to drag it out longer than necessary.

Night 8...slept thru again 7.30-6.30.

I feel almost ready for work tomorrow. .....sob sob!!!!

Loislane78 Thu 21-Mar-13 11:10:17

Sounds alright to me DrGarnett - a few nights getting used to his cot and you mentally getting ready for it; although I also agree that going cold turkey gets the best results and not giving a mixed message why I'm chickening out of dummy removal.

Not sleeping through here but still progress:

Down at 18.30 (was knackered) no crying
Woke at 12 and fed (this is a 2+ hr improvement)
Grizzle at 3 so resettled with dummy (took 1 min and used to demand feed now as well)
Woke at 4.30 and at 4.45 gave a feed (both sides so was hungry)
Woke at 5.50 and cos I'm naughty brought her in with us - another lie in until 8

So all in all not too bad and much better than before smile

DrGarnettsWinterMixture Thu 21-Mar-13 14:42:01

Thanks nectarini and Loislane, am dreading tonight-I wish we could just be a week in the future, with the hardest bit out of the way! Night 8 obviously went amazingly well for you nectarini-hope your return to work goes well smile

Loislane, that is really impressive to go from 18.30 to midnight, I'd love to get to that point!

Good luck for tonight everyone, fingers crossed it goes smoothly for all of us and our sleep refusing babies!

freelancegirl Thu 21-Mar-13 16:47:12

Such good progress nectarini! And good going dr garnet too. I can completely relate to the dreading it. I spend all nap times (having fed DS to sleep on my bed and not daring to move in case he wakes) googling sleep issues and am creating a master list of things I intend to try after holidays etc but will probably keep putting it off. Think of it this way - if you persevere you'll have a baby STTN whilst i am still at square one smile

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