Nothing works with my 10mo old DS-- Please Help!

[IHeartCake]

My DS is the most wonderful sweet little boy in the entire world all day but he is a total terror all night. He regularly wakes 5-8x a night at 10mo old. We have NEVER had that one magical night where he slept through. Nope. The BEST we have ever had was ONCE when he woke 3xs. Bliss.

We have tried everything. CC. GW. Going with the Flow, etc. He doesn't seem to respond to anything and will just keep waking up night after night and crying for hours. If I am there or if I am not.
My DH and I are on our knees.

What I'd like to know is there anyone else out there like this? What did you do/ are you doing?

And 2, did anyone's else's baby just get better. Not if there were already pretty good (i.e. waking 3 xs a night) but if they were as awful as mine and poof one day they just got better. Please someone tell me there is light at the end of the tunnel.
And this is my 2nd kid! I thought I had it all figured out. HA!

[IHeartCake]

Thanks Sarge. I've had him in with me the last 2 night due to a cold and have had even worse sleep and am now worried that I'll never get him back into his cot! He's a very mobile little boy and he's not big on the solids.
Good to hear that 13mo might be better. Pls pls!!

BTW, my 3yr old still comes into the bed at some point in the middle of the night and we've given up on ever sorting that out! But we don't mind b/c she goes straight back to sleep and is basically unwakable.

[rhetorician]

Iheartcake we have similar (although not as bad) - dd2 is also 10 months, started off ok, but for the last couple of months we have had (1) hours spent putting her to sleep - tedious beyond belief and (2) bed at 7.30, wake up 8, 11, 2 or 3, and then constant up and down from 3 onwards. She comes in with us after 3, but thrashes about, sits up etc. She eats fairly well, and is now mobile, so was hoping that crawling the length of the house several times might have worn her out.

Like you, we are totally fed up with it. She has never slept through either. Not once. We had a few good nights of one wake-up, but it's more usually 3 (every 3-4 hours, basically). We haven't tried much, but may well end up in the CC/CIO place before long. We can get her to sleep, we can put her back to sleep, but we cannot keep her asleep. And I just don't know why.

No help, but a bit of virtual hand-holding. It's bloody dreadful, and is impacting hugely on the family, on my relationship with DP etc. I'm sure you know what I mean :(

[rhetorician]

yes, she is renowned for her wiggling and the fact that she is never still! we have a sleep consultant coming tomorrow - don't live in UK, so have to pay through nose for suggestions that I am sure we could think up ourselves if we had a remaining functional brain cell between us...

[IHeartCake]

sympathy rhetorician. That's exactly it. DS for the last 3 nights has woken up around 9, cried for 3-5 mins then went back to sleep so clearly he knows how to do it. Why not at 2/3/4/5:30??

I DO know what you mean. My poor DP sleeps on a camp bed in my DDs room half the time. Completely stupid.

Sarge, I hope its teeth. He's about to sprout the top ones but I don't think that's entirely it. He doesn't SEEM to be in pain really. Oh I just don't know. Sympathy for you too. It's hard isn't it??

[rhetorician]

Iheart has he always been terrible, or is it new? Cos dd2 was quite good at first and I think this made us complacent. She just cannot settle herself - so if she turns over and wakes, then she needs someone to settle her. This used to be DP who fed her to sleep, but it's now me as we thought breaking that link might help; but all that happens is that it takes longer and I have to do it!!

DP and I never argue, but we have had some real humdingers over this - usually at 4 in the morning - the sleep consultant really is to give us a plan, rather than arguing about what to do in the middle of the offing night.

[GeeandTee]

I was just about to post the same question! DD is 10mo and started out as an ok sleeper, it got much worse at 6mo when her teeth started coming through but then got better again at 8mo, so I finally took the plunge and moved her into her own room. A couple of weeks later she starting waking 4-5 times a night and she now wakes at least every hour, all through the night. Often I put her down and she wakes up 5 minutes later. I get about 2-3 hours sleep a night and can't catch up in the day as not only does she only nap for 30 mins at a time in the day, I also have 2.10yo to look after as well.

Like you I have tried everything, except haven't gone as far as CC. I don't think it would work on her anyway as leaving her to cry just makes her absolutely hysterical when I've had to do it in the past eg to look after DS.

She is easy to get to sleep, although I have to hold her and pat her back, but just can't seem to stay asleep.

Its so frustrating and soul destroying and I feel like all of my maternity leave is being wasted by feeling so awful all the time. And then I also feel guilty that I'm not engaging enough with her in the day as sometimes I'm just too tired to even talk, on the days that DS is at his childminder.

DH can't function without sleep and has a v stressful and busy job so I have been doing all of it, except for the last few weeks when he's helped out for a few nights.

Its horrible, and like you I feel like there's no end in sight :(

[GeeandTee]

Oh, and we have had the odd night where she's slept through, which makes it all the more bewildering why sometimes she seems able to self-settle and other nights she can't, or won't.

What I'm trying at the moment is letting her cry for 5 mins before I go into her, in the hope that she realises its too much effort to keep doing this! Its not ideal as then it wakes up DH and DS and takes longer to get her back to sleep but I think that settling her as soon as she starts crying means that she has no motivation to learn to self-settle, ifswim.

At the moment I am sleeping in my dressing-gown all night so I don't keep getting cold getting in and out of bed all night. I hate winter!

[IHeartCake]

No kidding. My DH's way of dealing with it seems to be to ask endless "why is he doing this...?" questions in the middle of the night. I get angry as I don't know!!! And pls be quiet so as to not disturb the crying baby!!

But otherwise, he is a saint and yep works really hard and can't really help in the night. DS as always been a terrible sleeper but it seem to be progressively worse.

I JUST had a HV around and boy are they useless. She basically just said I should let him CIO. "But," I said, "he'll be hungry. He's used to feeding all night."
"Just close the door and let him cry", she said.
OK. I think MOST health professionals at least recommend CC over CIO. Guess we are on our own then ladies. How did it go with your sleep consultant? Any magic advise?

I totally understand Gee. It is soul destroying. I don't know if you have tried a GW but it worked like a charm to sort out my DD when she was little (now 3 and it's hard with 2 isn't it??!). Useless on DS but it might work for you? Also a 30min nap might be OT?

[rhetorician]

sleep consultant very nice and didn't tell us much we didn't already know - controlled crying is where we are headed, I guess. She needs to learn to sleep without a person being there: I know this has to be done, and to be fair it's not leaving her to cry for hours on her own, but a bit of me just thinks she's only tiny and she just wants to sleep next to a nice warm safe body...

[tholeon]

In similar place with nine month old dd. She just wants to sleep on lovely warm person. Which is sweet but somewhat impractical. Have read a million sleep books and tried gw but we just seem to replace one problem with another, eg when we stopped feeding her in the night she woke up less but took longer to settle, up to two hours which is a killer.. She was pretty good as a newborn but has got worse, wondering if we are just too soft?? Most of my friends do seem to do the leaving to cry thing in the end but just not sure can face it.. Though am much better parent and human being in general when not shattered! Also have v full on three year old..

[IHeartCake]

Hi Tholeon. Welcome to the club!
Yes mine has been coming into bed the last 4 nights and seems to be loving the comfort but it hasn't improved the night wakings.
Was your 3yr old a good sleeper?

Please somebody tell me why it should be that giving your child love and comfort should come with such a heavy burden. Aren't we just following our intuition?? How can it be so hard. The sodding HV said if I don't sort this out now, I'll have a 15yr old coming to the bed for milk. I mean how ridiculous is that. SURELY they figure it out on their own eventually. But I can't wait. I'm too tired. I just don't know what else to try. SO... Friday night, I'm moving my DD out of her room, into mine. Moving DS into a cot in her room and I'm going to try to tackle this properly. But where to begin with night weaning?? I mean, If you feed them sometimes but not others, doesn't that give the poor LO a mixed message? And what to do at the other times. Cuddle but not feed? CC? Blgh what a mess.

BTW, rhetorician I hope your consultant wasn't too expensive. If you'd like me to walk you through what we did in terms of GW for my DD, I will. I worked really well for her and it might work for you. felt more gentle to me. I just wish it would work for my son. Maybe I'll try again. I do think there is an element of getting the timing right. Speaking of which, DS sprouted a top tooth yesterday.

[GirlWithTheMouseyHair]

Hello

I'm in a different timezone, 3:35am here and been up and down for the last hour with DD (also second baby WTF?).

We've had 3nights when she's slept through since birth, phases when she's just woken once for a feed but it's now been about 2months of waking at different and all times of the night for unfathomable reasons. She usually refuses a bottle, won't be cuddled, by 4/5am is generally in bed with us but windmills so I then get NO sleep.

Also 10months - food seems to make no difference (loves her solids and still gets through 4bottles a day), neither does crawling round at top speed, no change whether she has 1x 30 min nap or two decent ones...

For some reason I naively go to bed hoping for at least half a nights good sleep!

She's in our room as we have guests until December and I think it's worse because she knows we're right here. 3 teeth sprouting all at once last week doesn't help but not convinced it'd be much different anyway!!

[rhetorician]

sorry, what is GW?

[tholeon]

Gradual withdrawal...

Ds, three year old, wasn't great, but night weaning at thirteen months, by sending dh in instead of me, helped a lot. Didn't seem to do it for dd, though she is younger admittedly. He then went through a long phase, till about two and a half, of wanting me lie next to him when he woke, but it was only once a night, and not every night, so it didn't bother me too much. He is ok now, except when he has a bug, like at the moment..

I think the comment about a fifteen year old wanting to breastfeed and co sleep is pretty ridiculous, obviously they will grow out if it, issue is just how long it will take, how bad it is and impact on family.. Feel a bit stuck between trauma and extra exhaustion of cc and ongoing sleep deprivation..

[rhetorician]

yes HV comment pretty unacceptable; I suppose the question is whether they will grow out of it or not; I have a feeling that DD won't - the arrangement suits her perfectly well! But I think overall that everyone's life as a family will be better if we all get enough sleep; she needs better sleep at night; and DP and I after 3+ years of babies/sleep deprivation/ breastfeeding etc do have a right to an adult relationship - even if that is simply sleeping in the same bed at night! We will start the sleep training regime on Monday. It basically involves settling and withdrawing, settling and withdrawing until she falls asleep - it doesn't involve leaving her to cry for any period of time.

[IHeartCake]

Hi Mousey. Welcome. It is really frustrating isn't it. When it is all so unfathomable. I really don't know but the books all make it sound like you do x y and z and it'll all fall into place. HA!

Looks like we are all going to do this about the same time. I MIGHT wait until that 2nd top tooth sprouts. It can't be more than tomorrow or Sat. Then at least I'll be able to discount tooth pain.
I'm still not 100% sure of the plan of action but it will involve night weaning and CC.

I know that it still breaks our hearts but if it helps at all there was a study released in the UK press last month that basically confirms that CC will not do any lasting damage to our children.
uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/controlled-crying-safe-babies-111029314.html

just think of that at 3am when the doubts creep in...

[GirlWithTheMouseyHair]

That HV comment is definitely unacceptable, but then they do tend to spout all sorts of crap!

Weirdly after posting DD fell asleep and didn't wake til 6! Didn't end up in our bed, so I got another 2hours solid sleep in - it has been a loooooooong time since that happened!

I've tried CC twice, once at 8months, again 2weeks ago - both times the first night was ok, bearable for both of us, second night she went completely mental, banshee screaming for over an hour, no consoling. Neither of us ready to deal with that! We're home for Christmas and jan so will have to wait til February before trying again.

DS turns 4 end of this month - he had colic and his first 4months were awful for all of us but by 6months he was doing 2-3hour naps and sleeping through by 7months. Bar the occasional phase of 5am starts he's been a brilliant sleeper since - tempted to move DD in with him and he can teach her to sleep!!

[tholeon]

Thank you for the link Iheart, that helps. I have tried leaving dd but not for more than five minutes hard crying. Sometimes she does just moan and settle herself, she can do it, just usually doesn't... Think next move will probably involve letting her cry but sitting by cot while she does it, so I am not worried she feels abandoned...

[IHeartCake]

Honestly. What does it take to be an HV?? why is their advise so antediluvian? Not to mention she digressed into this big tirade about how I should be having dinner with my kids rather than my husband. NEVERMIND.

Mousey you must feel amazing!! That is great!! But HOW will you make it til Feb? Honestly? But why wait? I know you are in a different time zone but you're not checking in from the future, right? Xmas is still 3 months away? :)

Colic is a nightmare so big love to you for getting through it. My 1st is a brilliant sleeper NOW too. Horrible at first.

Theoleon that is a great idea if that works for your LO. What I have read suggests that camping out takes longer and there is more crying as it takes them longer to settle but it feels better for you for the reasons you have said and is less stressful for them. I read some article about cortisol on this at some point. When I sat my by DD's cot she cried for 2hrs the first night. In a moment of desperation, I gave her the shirt from my back, which she still sucks/snuggles to day. The 2nd night was 1hr, the next was 30mins. From that point on, I could lay her down and walk out of the room.
Good luck!!!
x

[GirlWithTheMouseyHair]

Yeah trouble is DD is normally in the spare room but we now have pretty much back to back visitors so she's in with us til we fly home for Christmas, then she's in a travelcot sharing a room with me around the country til feb when we return. Sob!

She is now refusing bedtime. Joy. Trouble with always feeding her to sleep is when it won't work!!

[IHeartCake]

Ah I see. And I must be in the past as xmas is 2 months away!
You could maybe spend the next 2/3 months popping the nipple out of her mouth just before she falls asleep. This is taken from NCSS. She'll protest but over 2/3mo she'll get used to not having it in her mouth just before she nods off. If she can get used to that it'll make it just a smidgen easier later on?