Wakes about 5.45-6.00, nap 12.30-2.00 give or take 15 mins, bed 7.30. She is not overtired on this routine. Obviously some days go to he'll in a shell when she gets, say, 20mins sleep in car at 11am or some other such evil catnap!
Mine is 19m and has anything between 0.5 and 3 hours depending on whether we are at home or out. He gets up at 7-7.30 and will usually be ready for a sleep between 11 and 1, depending on what we've been doing (usually about 12pm). I usually try to hold him out until after lunch (and do early lunch).
But it's only recently we've been able to push his nap out. Before, when he was tired we had to put him down for a nap or he'd get overtired and then wouldn't settle. So I wouldn't try to push him too much right now, just pick a time when you know he will be tired but not overtired and then stick to it each day.
I can also usually judge when he will nap/go to bed by how long he's been awake. In the morning, the most he can do is 6hrs, usually more like 5. If I push him too much before his nap, he will usually want an early bed time. If he has an early nap, he will be able to last much longer before bed, go figure!
A typical routine is 7.00-11.30, nap 11.30-1.30, bed at 6.30.
I think you are right your ds is likely overtired, 30min nap isn't much at his age. My DS is 2.1 & goes to bed at 8pm, but he naps for 2-2.5hrs from 1-3/3.30pm, so he's only awake between 4.5-5hrs between a decent nap and bedtime. So I actually think your DS's bedtime is very late given he is only napping for such a small amount during the day & so early.
I know you say you tried an earlier BT & it didn't help - how early did you try? Sometimes being overtired can make them difficult to settle, so maybe you didn't go early enough. In these situations, a temporary super early bedtime eg 6pm can actually work wonders. And you'd need to try it consistently for a good few days/week to see a result. That would be my first port of call.
I would say ultimately aiming for a nap around lunchtime is the best idea, coupled with an earlier bedtime (if nap is before 1pm). So if he is used to napping around 11am I would shift it gradually later by 15 mins/week and stick with the same timings every day so 1 week at 11am, 1 week at 11.15am,1 week at 11.30am & so on, & do same with bedtime, 1 week 6pm, 1 week 6.15pm, 1 week 6.30pm etc. It will take several weeks for him to get used to the new routine, get past the overtiredness and for his naps to lengthen, and for you to push bedtime back out, so try & be patient & it will come.
My little one is almost 18mnths and has just dropped her morning nap (used to have up to 1 hour around 9am). So she now has 1.5-2 hours around 12 o'clock each day (after lunch at 11.30). This routine mainly came about because she started nursery and that is what they do so I have continued with it. It seems to work well although my daughter still needs some down time (relaxing in the buggy when we go out and about) around 9ish in the morning. She is also ready for her bed at 7pm.
DS is a little bit older (22 months) and at 18 months I think he was sleeping anywhere between 9.30 and 10.30 depending on what we were doing. Occasionally, if we went out in the car, he would only have about 10 minutes in the morning and then sleep after lunch.
Over the summer we got into the routine of putting him down after a reasonably early lunch (11.30 - 12.00) but now my DD is back at pre-school so sometimes I feed him early and he falls asleep in the pushchair on the way to pick up DD. Otherwise he has to wait until we get home and goes down about 1.30.
He sleeps for up to two hours by the way and goes to bed between 7.00 and 7.30.
Having problems with DS napping just after getting night sleep sorted! He's currently only taking 1x 30 minute nap and then gets cranky later in the day. The time he naps varies greatly if we go out but when we're at home he can't last much later than about 11am.
I suspect he's over tired and want to get him into a routine of a regular nap time but just don't know what time to aim for. I'm pregnant with DC2 (due mid Oct) and I'm aware the clocks go back at the end of Oct, I'd really like to 'fix' this before these things because I know they'll mess things up in their own way.
I'm dead against any kind of sleep training that involves leaving him to cry.
If it helps he goes to bed around 7.45 and is almost always asleep after a breastfeed in his cot by 8pm (falls asleep on his own) he's then out until 6.30/7am every night unless unwell so he's having a consistent 11 hours at night. We tried putting him down earlier and it was taking 2 hours to get him to sleep so I don't think that will help.
I am just interested to know when other toddlers have their daytime nap,to see if that makes a difference - what works for you?