Clarification please

(767 Posts)
Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 16:25:28

So I come back to find that you have deleted my thread asking why my Santa thread was deleted.

Of course it was a thread about a thread, it was asking a question about the thread.

Wtf else is one supposed to do?

I put it in site stuff.

It was also a really nice friendly thread full of poetry and laughs. Why why why why was it deleted? What the hell is going on there?

Secondly, if one wants to talk about something, and that something has been deleted purely owing to others mischief, does that mean that one is never to talk about that subject again??

How mad is that?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 16:26:39

And calling it a "fred" adds insult to injury.

I am so boiling mad with it all.

Did you try emailing them Hully? I'm sure you did, but I'm in a point out the obvious mood.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 16:27:43

No, I put it in sitre stuff so we could all see the reasons. That was the point.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 16:30:35

If, as mildred said, we would still like to debate the topic of the supernatural, including Santa, where might we do it without this thread about a thread nonsense?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 05-Dec-13 16:31:15

Maybe we don't all want to see the reasons. Surely it would be better to contact MN direct and communicate directly with them, rather than starting threads about threads about threads...

ButThereAgain Thu 05-Dec-13 16:32:01

I never usually have a problem with deletions at all, but that deletion was totally odd and unnecessary! It was a friendly thread, lots of fun.

I always thought that the "thread about a thread" formula was just a shorthand for saying "this thread re-initiates problematic against-guidelines stuff from a previous thread and therefore needs deleting."

I always thought that people who thought the very idea of a "thread about a thread" was against the rules were misunderstanding things in a fairly stupid way. Was I wrong? If so, isn't that the silliest prohibition in the world? What about threads that say "Following on from the thread about baking powder, this is a thread to further examine the recipes suggested there." Is that forbidden?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 16:32:35

itsallgoingtobefine

Don't look then, easy peasy

DeepThought Thu 05-Dec-13 16:34:00

Whoa it's all too heavy, man

Why not hash out yer differences in private, like

You're going to get one o' them appleplexies

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 16:35:56

I'm starting to get paranoid.

I start a thread in all good faith

Some twits complain

It's deleted.

It's happening just a little too often

magimedi Thu 05-Dec-13 16:36:25

I can not understand why it was deleted. I'd read most of it & had it on my watch list to come & make a contribution on when I got back in again (just now).

It was fun & I loved the poetry as am another TSE fan.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 05-Dec-13 16:36:59

Email them?

magimedi Thu 05-Dec-13 16:37:08

PS - Have just spotted what blog of the day is & am sniggering to myself quietly.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 05-Dec-13 16:37:20

Or rather

Email them. wink

ButThereAgain Thu 05-Dec-13 16:40:39

Starting to doubt all the stalwart defence of MN deletions policy that I engaged in during the recent banning controversy.

K8Middleton Thu 05-Dec-13 16:43:38

<sigh> It is so tiresome. It's like the whole bloody site has been reduced to the lowest common denominator and no debate is possible. Worst of all is that I keep challenging my inner Outraged of Tunbridge Wells all over the shop because of it.

Something is amiss when more threads are hidden then posted on and twattish things are being left to stand and perfectly inoffensive, cordial threads are deleted.

Fwiw you were quite right to post publicly in Site Stuff Hully. There was more than one person who was baffled by the decision.

curlew Thu 05-Dec-13 16:44:41

I've never understood what's so wrong about threads about threads anyway. Unless they are specifically started to "get" at someone. And surely those can be obliterated for other reasons? Such as "This thread was started for the sole purpose of getting at someone"

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 16:45:49

I would be really grateful for a conversation and clarification here from MN.

If it's going to carry on as it is I will leave and the twits will win and MN won't care because they just want an easy life.

AmyMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 05-Dec-13 16:47:31

Hi Hully,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We've just sent you a mail, and we'll be deleting this thread shortly for the same reasons as the previous one - namely being a thread about a thread (about a thread!).

Golddigger Thu 05-Dec-13 16:48:14

A fred about a fred about a fred is going to go so well hmm

Do the grown up thing and speak to them.

Not sure why they havent spoken to you. I am beginning to think they have, and may well lose patience at some point.

Getorf Thu 05-Dec-13 16:48:33

It's Christmas TIME

There's no need to be afraid!

<revs up for Xmas row>

Hully I don't get it either. Bring on the fickos innit.

ValleyOfRocksWitch Thu 05-Dec-13 16:49:05

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Golddigger Thu 05-Dec-13 16:49:17

x post
Never mind. it is going to be deleted.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 16:50:18

I have has an email from Amy and asked her to respond here.

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 16:50:33

MN has a totally different vibe now.

I think MNHQ cba to deal with things anymore and just delete if people moan about a thread.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 16:50:36

had

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 16:52:13

so do I, usual

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 05-Dec-13 16:54:26

If you're going to say fuck off to some one you're not kidding anyone by trying to say you have any respect for them. grin

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 16:55:24

The site is just full of threads about Christmas eve hampers and cat shit.

BuffytheElfSquisher Thu 05-Dec-13 16:56:13

All very strange. Seasonally so, but strange nonetheless.

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 16:56:50

Hahaha at, with respect ,fuck off.

That really made me laugh.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 16:57:04

Rather than keep deleting everything Amy, could you answer the questions?

Or get someone else to?

It isn't a thread about a thread, it's asking for clarification

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 05-Dec-13 16:58:34

Are you being a teensy bit toddlerlike stubborn hully? grin

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:00:53

No, it's mad. None of it makes sense.

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 17:03:32

Hully look in chat!

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 05-Dec-13 17:03:40

<stomps feet in agreement>

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:03:51

Does no one else think it's mad? Using site stuff to ask a question about policy?

And being completely ignored and just deleted?

Really?

When did we all move to North Korea/China etc etc

K8Middleton Thu 05-Dec-13 17:04:07

Is Amy new? This is bad form really.

ButThereAgain Thu 05-Dec-13 17:04:11

I'm completely baffled now. I thought MN would come on and say the deletion was a trigger-happy error.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:05:35

It's downright rude.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:08:00

Can you imagine doing that at work? Anyone you didn't like much or that got moaned about so gave you ag, just wipe them out with no regard for logic, fairness, sense.

NomDeClavier Thu 05-Dec-13 17:08:17

Seriously? Threads about threads usually only get deleted because they're just dragging stuff up. This isn't. Someone needs to steer MNHQ away from the gin/Baileys/Christmas tipple of choice.

HootShoot Thu 05-Dec-13 17:09:28

Do you have an answer now in the email they sent you Hully?

It is absolute madness, I agree.

Ever since Helen left, actually...

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:11:21

It said

We're just getting in touch because we've deleted your thread "Why was my Santa thread deleted??" Sorry to be humourless and all that, but as you could see that the first had been deleted for bunfight reasons, it did seem like a bit of a deliberately inflammatory thread about a thread. Which is against the rules, as you know...

WHICH IS FINE EXCEPT THAT BOTH REASONS ARE ENTIRELY INACCURATE. Which would be apparent to anyone that actually RTFT

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 17:12:50

It wasn't much of a bunfight.

PiperChapman Thu 05-Dec-13 17:13:24

have you seriously got.nothing better to do than get 'boiling made about a thread on a forum?

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 17:13:41

Is heated debate classed as bunfighting now?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:13:47

Yes, lots.

BUT IT'S THE PRINCIPLE

PiperChapman Thu 05-Dec-13 17:13:55

full of typos but you get my gist

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 17:14:37

PiperChapman, if you are too busy and important to bother with mn, what are you, er, doing on mn?

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 17:15:08

Have you got nothing better to do than post 'have you got nothing better to do'? On an internet forum?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:15:39

I've got horrible deadlines staring at me, but if we let it all go, if we don't stand up for RIGHT, then where will we be?

Getorf Thu 05-Dec-13 17:16:26

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 05-Dec-13 17:17:29

Why does nobody ever post "have you got nothing better to do" telly addicts or S and B threads? confused Its seems you're only allowed to be on MN if you're happy.

GoshAnneGorilla Thu 05-Dec-13 17:17:42

Mumsnet is a privately owned website, they can run it as they please.

In their opinion, it was a bunfight and so they deleted it accordingly. Their shout.

Likewise, by their own rules, a thread about a thread breaks talk guidelines, so they deleted that too.

Really not seeing all the handwringing about this, unless it's all agitation prior to setting up some Moldies-esque breakaway group. Which will provide some nice Xmas drama, so feel free to continue.

I didn't see any buns.

Even christmas ones.

It's still weird around here. <sigh>

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:18:29

why not just write

ner ner ner ner ner

and have done?

Or polish your prefect badge?

BriarcliffBelle Thu 05-Dec-13 17:20:44

Uh oh, Hully.

No One disses Father Christmas.

Their threads disappear in a hail of buns if they do.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:20:47

soz mimsy, your post got in the middle there

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 17:20:47

How about Goldies for the new website?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:21:36

If I knew how to set one up, I would. Maybe a fb group.

Getorf Thu 05-Dec-13 17:22:25

Let's get some motherfucking STOLLEN

I am depressed because I am on a train which left London 2 hours ago and which is not moving very quickly because of high winds and 'trespassers'

TRESPASSERS? People walking idly down the train tracks in the Cotswolds in DECEMBER?

Wth respect the trains can get fucked as well.

BriarcliffBelle Thu 05-Dec-13 17:23:09

Bit Blue Peter, that, usual.

Might cause confusion.

Baublies?

Getorf Thu 05-Dec-13 17:23:11

GOLDIES Hahahaha

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:23:39

They're collecting the leaves, getorf

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 17:24:01

With respect Getorf,Stollen can fuck off.

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 17:24:19

Can I just check I have this right - I didn't see the first thread. Is this what happened:

Hully started a thread saying "I don't think we should lie to children about anything, including Father Christmas, why do we tell them that a big red fatty in the sky brings their presents?"

and some people cried and said "but we love Santa!"

and - and (this is the bit where I well up with uncontrollable laughter) and - the thread was deleted because some people were sad that people were dissing Santa?

I am now falling on the floor dying with hysterics

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:26:50

they also said I was a puppy boiling liar and sanctimonious etc

none of which I care about but which apparently constitutes a "bunfight"

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:27:30

Also, I am singlehandedly destroying "the magic of Christmas"

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 17:28:30

I am now snorting inelegantly and smacking the floor with my hand in uncontrollable fits of hilarity

Do those people know that Bambi dies, in the book? (wait for thread to be deleted)

HECTheHeraldAngelsSing Thu 05-Dec-13 17:30:10

seriously? We can't discuss this topic and any attempt to do so will be deleted?

I disagreed completely with hully's pov and said so but this is bloody ridiculous.

We are all supposed to be grown ups, ffs. We can't discuss an issue without name calling and being mardy?

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 17:30:14

Oh and another thing, just because Beth makes it through Little Women, don't think she's going to be ok. She kicks the bucket later, maybe in Good Wives

(waiting for mnhq to slap an injunction on me)

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 17:30:44

Was the thread deleted because some posters were saying Hully was a big goady troll?

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 17:32:30

I disagreed with Hully. Well tbh I didn't know what the fuck she was on about.

But it's madness that the thread was deleted.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:39:42

And I stayed calm and polite. So there was no fight, just the twits twittering and reporting.

NOT A BUNFIGHT

Frettchen Thu 05-Dec-13 17:40:27

There seems to be a very thin line between 'debate' and 'goady'... I was planning to read Hully's thread after work, I don't have any DC yet, but when I do I don't intend on doing the Santa thing and wanted to see what the arguments for/against were... but the thread is gone, and I shall be forever in the dark... fsad (or should it just be sad ?)

BuffytheElfSquisher Thu 05-Dec-13 17:40:41

Nobody Expects The Santa Inquisition.

fgrin

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:40:53

Disagreement is GOOD

Debate and discussion lead to thought and change.

It's people who can't separate the point from the personal who are the problem

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:42:02

Oh v good buffy

HECTheHeraldAngelsSing Thu 05-Dec-13 17:45:22

It's people who can't separate the point from the personal who are the problem

I totally agree with this.

I love a good debate. A heated debate. grin I'll happily go toe to toe with someone on an issue, get really worked up about then laugh about it with them. It's easy to debate an issue passionately and not end up calling people names!

::applaudes Buffy:: fgrin

You know, I never say this...but MN has actually changed.

It's just not possible to have fun any more.

Too many PO. Too many new moderators, sorry Community Managers, with delusions of grandeur.

What the fuck was the point of that chat a few weeks ago with Justine et al?

StickEmUpSideways Thu 05-Dec-13 17:48:54

As far as I saw I think people acted like Hully jumped through their screens and told their children the santa thing.

But she didn't.

It was the pearl clutching 'you cant tell my children'

That wasnt the point.

Am I right?
And if so I better get a prize fgrin

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:49:31

you can have a bick kiss, stick and be grateful

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:49:41

bick?

big

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 17:50:13

Indded Tee

No fun or nuance just oh look, it's X's name let's just delete everything and save ag.

AvonCallingBarksdale Thu 05-Dec-13 17:51:30

This is Insania. I don't agree with Hully's PoV on the old Santa debate, but I love a debate, heated or otherwise, what with me being a grown up and all that. MN is weird at the mo. So many irritations.

HECTheHeraldAngelsSing Thu 05-Dec-13 17:52:48

thank FUCK bick was typo for big. I wondered what the hell you were offering there!

NewBlueCoat Thu 05-Dec-13 17:54:08

this is madness.

I saw the original thread title, but didn't get around to reading it. I sit on the fence with that one, tbh. I have dd1, who doens't know enough to get the fact that Santa isn't a story (she's read books about him, therefor ehe must be a story, iyswim), and dd2 who has been asking since she was about 2 (sometimes with a worried look on her face) 'yes, but is he REALLY real?', and I have been left in the middle not kn owing what the fuck to say.

I read half the second thread, which wasn't really a thread-about-a-thread in that it wasn't bitching about whatever/whoever got the thread deleted in the first place, and wasn't goading, or carrying over any kind of nastiness of hounding or anything. And then I missed the rest - I've just logged on to read the rest now I'm home again, and saw this one.

Which will be going pfffft shortly (WHY?!).

Good lord, how times have changed. No actual resoned discussion allowed anymore, unless it is about how orange the Orange One is, or what Katie Price will name her next child, or how Johnnie's clothes are really crap this season (followed by hundereds of threads about what has been bought from Johnnie), Madness.

Getorf Thu 05-Dec-13 17:54:48

You know it's not TRUE that all the audience shouting 'we care' during the Care Bears film saved the life of the Care Bears.

I AM SORRY TO BREAK THAT TO YOU ALL, CREDULOUS FUCKERS!

You know what? I don't give a fuck any more.

HoneyDragon Thu 05-Dec-13 17:55:21

Well. You could start the thread in Ethical, or WWYD?

And word it along the lines of

As a parent and a human do you feel uncomfortable with the Santa lie.

It's all getting weird. This is foremost a parenting site, and it is a parenting question that gets discussed in some form or another annually.

The pompous dad remains which in my opinion means there are more nefarious reasons for deleting this one that hQ are refusing to share.

HoneyDragon Thu 05-Dec-13 17:56:28

Mind you. I could still be on sherry....

HECTheHeraldAngelsSing Thu 05-Dec-13 17:58:05

I know, New. Do you remember some of the amazing debates that used to happen on here? People would argue, dissect each other's posts, get furious grin and that was ok. It was fine to argue.

I really miss that.

I've suggested a time or two that there is a place on here for a heated debate section. Where those who want to slip on their big girl pants can go and actually get stuck into an issue. And those who don't like that - hide the topic!

HoneyDragon Thu 05-Dec-13 18:00:25

I actually wanted to start a discussion about something that bothers me about Boden. Now I'm scared.

Getorf Thu 05-Dec-13 18:00:29

What was the last row we had on here and someone said that standing up to MNHQ was like being Rosa Parks?

I love that mumsnetter, she came on and said sorry later.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 18:00:54

now that is a good idea hec, or perhaps in the way that people now feel obliged to write (lighthearted) we could write (deadly serious and likely to get heated)

NewBlueCoat Thu 05-Dec-13 18:01:45

hmm, I kind of like the idea of a debate section. but at the same time, just want to shout WHY THE FUCK CAN'T WE ALL GROW UP AND DISCUSS THINGS IN EVERY SECTION?!

Talk - actual, real talk and discussion, is what this place used to be about. It used to be proud of that. Now it seems it's all about the natter instead (nowt wrong with natter and gossip, but don't understand why it means that discussion and debate can't happen, or has to be pigeonholed)

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 18:03:20

Actually, why not have a Debate Section?

It is a good idea. I would be delighted to post my ideas there and not upset the twits.

ButThereAgain Thu 05-Dec-13 18:05:02

But a debate discussion would either be like a new AIBU (i.e. a licence to be stupidly fightly) or, if it just meant a place to grow up and talk/think seriously, it would be a weird admission that the rest of this discussion site isn't actually a discussion site -- and then what on earth is it? A place to recommend brands, and sod all else?

The twits will be upset regardless. Just because they are twits.

StickEmUpSideways Thu 05-Dec-13 18:05:28

That was a sloppy kiss. Love it grin

ButThereAgain Thu 05-Dec-13 18:05:34

"debate discussion" should say "debate section"

Oh crap. I missed the first thread but was enjoying the second. There were some really thoughtful intelligent posts on there.

I understand the thing about TAAT when someone starts a thread to say 'everyone on x thread are wanky arseholes' or whatever, or if people are simply continuing a bunfight or repeating something that was deleted for being potentially libelous ... the 'why was the santa thread deleted?' thread was none of those.

One of the things I really like about MN is they are usually v transparent about mod decisions and willing to discuss so for the life of me I can't see a problem with a TAAT in site stuff.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 18:07:37

But it could say something like:

Debate Section

Herein you may find ideas that are challenging, upsetting or just thought-provoking. Do not take them personally and do not make ad hominem attacks. Leave the personal at the door and focus on the point. If you are not able to do that, this isn't the place for you.

ButThereAgain Thu 05-Dec-13 18:09:38

Yes, that makes sense, on second thoughts. Not sure it would work, though. The hiistory of the last few years on MN has been one of devising new rules and forums to try to compensate for deteriorations that are the result of a change in culture. It hasn't ever worked I think. Rules can't make ethos, not on their own.

DeckTheHallsWithBoughsOfHorry Thu 05-Dec-13 18:13:44

I was on the first thread at the death and I wasn't surprised it was deleted. People advanced searching people and quoting posts from three years ago, deliberate derailment and insults... If MNHQ had deleted all the infractions the thread would have looked like Swiss cheese. Far simpler to just delete the bloody lot.

HECTheHeraldAngelsSing Thu 05-Dec-13 18:15:46

I would hope it wouldn't turn into a pointlessly fighty section because my vision of it grin is a place that is home to people who hate pointlessly fighting and personal attacks and simply want to debate an issue and be allowed to get angry about opinions and debate them fiercely and pick them apart. really get into it. without screaming bullying or calling names or crap like that.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 18:16:01

Well you know what Horry, they could have come on the thread where I asked why and said that. Not just gone bam! a thread about a thread. Which it wasn't

That would have at least been polite.

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 18:16:48

The dragging up old posts was a low blow.

I'm not sure what that was all about.

NewBlueCoat Thu 05-Dec-13 18:18:19

If there is a debate/discussion section, you would just get (even more) dumbing down of the rest of the site, though. Lots of cries of 'oh, ffs, take that to the debate section, will you?' if you ever tried to raise even a semi-serious point.

A bit like AIBU is totally hijacked by bile and vitriol, becuase it can be. The rest of the site would become a wasteland of gossip and banality, which would just be odd.

HECTheHeraldAngelsSing Thu 05-Dec-13 18:18:34

bloody hell, someone advanced searched to try to score some points against a stranger on the net? who did that? [nosy]

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 18:19:49

oh who cares? just another twit

HECTheHeraldAngelsSing Thu 05-Dec-13 18:20:34

It's going to become that anyway, tbh, as any and all debate and disagreement is shut down in order to create this new mumsnet that's all fluffy kittens and mums having group hugs.

I like the rows. grin I like reading challenging views from intelligent women on issues that matter.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 18:22:41

What is really annoying is when one stays calm no matter what because it's thr point that matters, and then the thread is deleted anyway because of a load of twits.

what's th epoint?

NewBlueCoat Thu 05-Dec-13 18:23:51

I like the rows too.

And the reasoned discussion.

And the bloody fabulous opinions, and links to interesting stuff, and subjects I'd never in a million years have thought I'd be interested in, but am because they are being discussed by brilliant, witty, interesting posters.

Or, at least, they used ot be.

Agree that is the way the hwole site is going, but rather than accept the sidelining of what used to eb the whole raisin-d'etre of the damn site, I would instead be quite interested in knowing why it has to be this way.

Which, I know, is why Hully has started these threads. But they keep being deleted.

WHY?!

The ability to add pictures is a step towards sparkly shit.

And the shutting down of debate is a further step towards huns and having to write f***.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 18:24:38

why
why
why
why
why
why
why

I missed poems.sad Were they as good as the web chat limericks?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 18:26:41

they were ts eliot pomes, so you can easily read em

Ah ok, I was worried I had missed a Hully original rhyme. smile

NomDeClavier Thu 05-Dec-13 18:34:28

Actually the more I think about this the more hmm I am. I think I need to start my own thread on the topic, genuinely, because in DH's family Santa brings all the presents but in my family we give presents to each other. It's a really sticky cultural issue apparently and we didn't have to discuss it last year. But apparently now we do and I can't even start an AIBU because we can't discuss the ethics of Santa without it possibly getting bunfighty?! It's Santa, of course people are going to get uptight!

Why?

Because MN is huge now. Really huge. And gets media attention all the time.

And godforbid the media pick up something serious. Rather than Penis Beakers.

I am very anti-MN lately, for many many reasons. I doubt I'll ever leave and I'll still post on fun threads when I see them, but I am stopping a lot of the other stuff I used to do.

Like defending HQ.

Mintyy Thu 05-Dec-13 18:42:11

I don't know what I'm going to do if this thread gets deleted for the same ridiculous reason. Explode probably. Guts everywhere. Not nice for the dc to witness that sad.

NewBlueCoat Thu 05-Dec-13 18:45:00

Oh bugger. Was in the middle of a huge reply to Tee when I had to break off to film ds' first steps. And now have lost my reasoned debate reply.

Oh well, it'd only have been deleted for being too serious anyway, I expect.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 18:46:40

me too mintyy

cherryademerrymaid Thu 05-Dec-13 18:52:32

I know I'm late to the party but people seriously got upset because someone had an opinion about NOT telling lies about Father Christmas existing? Oh the hysteria....this place has gotten weirder and weirder this past 3 years....

I've lied for 8 years so far....I'm not upset that someone else chooses not to.

Egg nog anyone? (home made, not that nasty store bought shite)

- looks for the egg nog emoction -

We need an egg nog emoction.

IslaValargeone Thu 05-Dec-13 18:54:55

I could do with a decent egg nog recipe.

cherryademerrymaid Thu 05-Dec-13 18:56:25

I can dig it out for you if you'd like? I also have an lovely green bean casserole recipe too - I know it's American but it's a nice change for green beans!

IslaValargeone Thu 05-Dec-13 19:00:44

I'd love the egg nog recipe if you really don't mind?
Green bean casserole, perhaps not so much. I don't think I could ever be persuaded to like green beans.

HECTheHeraldAngelsSing Thu 05-Dec-13 19:03:47

I'd also like the eggnog recipe please.

Could I have the eggnog recipe too please?

cherryademerrymaid Thu 05-Dec-13 19:06:02

OK...would you all mind dropping me a message? I can guarantee by the time I get to it MNHQ will have poofed this thread smile

ChasedByBees Thu 05-Dec-13 19:12:26

This thread better not be deleted. Asking why a thread was deleted is not a thread about a thread, particularly if it diverges into people having fun, quoting poetry and generally debating. Why the bloody hell would you delete that? It's just plain rude!

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 19:14:07

YOU'D THINK...

I don't usually get embroiled in this sort of business. Raises my blood pressure, boils my piss (ewwwwww hate that expression), is for my mental health and ruins my evening.

HOWEVER.

A very wise previous poster said this:
I always thought that the "thread about a thread" formula was just a shorthand for saying "this thread re-initiates problematic against-guidelines stuff from a previous thread and therefore needs deleting."

I always thought that people who thought the very idea of a "thread about a thread" was against the rules were misunderstanding things in a fairly stupid way. Was I wrong? If so, isn't that the silliest prohibition in the world? What about threads that say "Following on from the thread about baking powder, this is a thread to further examine the recipes suggested there." Is that forbidden?

I mean seriously. Come on, MNHQ, a little substance over form would be in order here, no?

Mintyy Thu 05-Dec-13 19:33:41

I usually enjoy threads about threads more than the original thread grin.

Of course they should be deleted if they are started because op has a grudge to bear with someone on another thread and is trying to draw attention to it, or if they have got a reaction they didn't like on their thread and are starting one in a different topic/with a different title/under a namechange in the hopes of getting a different outcome.

But I can't see why they should for other reasons.

They're discussing That Bastard Santa over here. I shall watch with interest.

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 05-Dec-13 19:41:42

Evening all,

Hully, from what I can see, your initial thread was removed because it turned into a bit of a bunfight and was being reported to us. We took a look, there were several PAs and deletions and so we decided to zap it.

You are, of course, welcome to debate whether or not to tell children about Santa and any other subject for that matter. However, we did feel that you weren't looking for a debate or discussion, you wanted to share your views on the subject - others gave your theirs, everyone disagreed - cake throwing, reports, deletions and then it was zapped.

We may not have been as thorough as we generally are last night and apologies if we zapped rather than spent a long time trawling through deleting individual posts. We had a rather large back log of reports to plough through as our email systems went down .

That's not to say that it wouldn't have gone anyway, but apologies if we didn't spend as long on it as perhaps we should have.

Your thread earlier was a thread about a thread that was deleted.

HoneyDragon Thu 05-Dec-13 19:45:55

My crowning glory was disagreeing with Hully yet still being called a sycophant.

I am an actual paradox. I may actually be that Higgs Boson particle wotsit all those clever folk are looking for <<proud>>

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 05-Dec-13 19:50:53

I can't believe people actually reported the thread.
I totally disagreed with Hully but I thought it was a debate, you know, when you disagree with each other.

TheCurseOfFenric Thu 05-Dec-13 19:52:11

But Rebecca, the thread earlier was actually having the discussion the first thread tried to have (as well as wondering about the deletion policy)

Having a blanket thread-about-a-thread must DIE policy is a bit bonkers, tbh.

Yes, if they are started to goad, or hound, or wind up. But if it is just quietly going about its business, with some debate happening, wtf should it be zapped?

Mintyy Thu 05-Dec-13 19:52:44

It will be interesting to see how it goes on Nickelbabe's thread. I am sure she genuinely hasn't seen Hully's earlier threads.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 19:53:26

That is nonsense Rebecca.

Debate is just that, debate. It is what was being had on that thread.

And could you explain why a thread on SITE STUFF asking why a thread was deleted = "a thread about a thread?"

And EXACTLY HOW ELSE IS ONE SUPPOSED TO ASK THAT QUESTION?

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 19:54:22

But Rebecca, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the second one.

The first thread was deleted NOT because it was a banned subject, but because it became a bunfights.

The second one was a much more pleasant discussion about te topic.

Are you going to delete every thread from now on that is about the Santa myth, or only those by Hully?

Because, effectively every thread is about another thread at this stage.

I really hope you don't delete this one. That would ba a tad censor-y, deleting threads for asking questions.

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 05-Dec-13 19:56:11

Good point and if this thread goes too as it's a thread about a thread about a thread then you'll never get your answer, you're effectively being silenced.

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 19:56:24

Where is Nickel's thread?

Or will it be deleted if we link it here?

Having a blanket thread-about-a-thread must DIE policy is a bit bonkers, tbh.

This ^^ with santa's sleighbells on.

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 19:58:50

And I've just seen a good point - what is the policy on spin-off threads? There are zillions of spin-off threads to clarify things on other threads; this is one.

BriarcliffBelle Thu 05-Dec-13 19:59:25

Thread-about-a-thread is so delightfully fluid as a concept.

Can kind of be whatever you want it to be. As can 'Bunfight'.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:00:08

I feel really frustrated about all this because it is so blatantly unfair.

I know damn well a load of people go, oh look, that thread's by Hully, let's have a pop/let's report, and then all MNHQ do is also say oh look, there's Hully's name. Let's just delete it all and save ag.

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 05-Dec-13 20:00:55

it's not a blanket rule at all - and I admit to not having seen the second thread in all it's glory but we tend to remove it if it rehashes the same points as the first and turns into another thread just like the first one.

You can of course ask us why etc - that's what we are here for - we don't want to shut down debate at all.

HanneHolm Thu 05-Dec-13 20:01:11

you SO need to step away hully

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 20:02:04

Can we have a Hully topic?

Then people who don't like her can all hide it and we can all have an interesting and maybe robust discussion/debate/whatever in peace?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:02:48

BUT THE SECOND THREAD DIDN'T

IT ASKED A VALID QUESTION AND THEN TURNED INTO POETRY

You admit you hadn't read it.

How bloody infuriating do you think that is??

And please answer:

And could you explain why a thread on SITE STUFF asking why a thread was deleted = "a thread about a thread?"

And EXACTLY HOW ELSE IS ONE SUPPOSED TO ASK THAT QUESTION?

HanneHolm Thu 05-Dec-13 20:03:08

email them!

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:03:11

I won't Hanne. Fairness is more important than anything.

BriarcliffBelle Thu 05-Dec-13 20:03:13

Wasn't the 30 Day Topic for threads of Great Seriousness?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:03:42

step away, not email

No point emailing, these are questions that affect us all.

ChasedByBees Thu 05-Dec-13 20:04:00

Honeydragon they found it already

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22404201

<massively off-topic>

HECTheHeraldAngelsSing Thu 05-Dec-13 20:04:11

Bloodyy hell, honey. That must have left you doing that awesome [boggle] face mn wont give me.

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 20:04:11

Rebecca, it wasn't rehashing, it was a very civilised discussion about the pros and cons of allowing children to believe in fantasy.

No fighting at all.

Of course that's because it was in site stuff and the for others haven't fount the exit from AIBU.

Mintyy Thu 05-Dec-13 20:04:50

Actually. Can we have a self moderated Oldies topic? If you don't want another Moldies-style mutiny?

ChasedByBees Thu 05-Dec-13 20:05:00

The second thread was nothing like the first. I lurked, it was fun.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:05:19

It wasn't even much about that, it was mostly poetry n shit.

Please ask Amy to stop knee jerk deletions.

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 20:05:23

Hanne, it's a fair question to ask.

Why should te answer be hidden. There's lots of people who want to know the answer.

HoneyDragon Thu 05-Dec-13 20:05:29

Or here's a thought.

People should stop insulting other people when they disagree with them.

Then the threads won't get deleted.

It's out there I know, but I think it could work.

HanneHolm Thu 05-Dec-13 20:05:39

lol affect us all
its a website hull
Honestly i have BEEN there - go and get a nice cup of tea instead smile

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 05-Dec-13 20:06:16

Hullygully

BUT THE SECOND THREAD DIDN'T

IT ASKED A VALID QUESTION AND THEN TURNED INTO POETRY

You admit you hadn't read it.

How bloody infuriating do you think that is??

And please answer:

And could you explain why a thread on SITE STUFF asking why a thread was deleted = "a thread about a thread?"

And EXACTLY HOW ELSE IS ONE SUPPOSED TO ASK THAT QUESTION?

Hully,

I may not have read it but others from MNHQ will have - I am not officially working now am training a newbie

Threads in Site Stuff do get removed as with anywhere on MN if they break guidelines.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:06:29

of course it's a website.

Fairness as a principle is the same wherever it is flouted. It must be defended

HanneHolm Thu 05-Dec-13 20:06:53

you are sounding rather hysterical.
a break. take one

Mintyy Thu 05-Dec-13 20:07:21

Yes, people have often been silenced by the blanket deletion of threads about threads policy. In the end they get tired of trying to engage and leave Mumsnet.

HoneyDragon Thu 05-Dec-13 20:07:45

Amy was a bit smuggy and rude about deleting it though.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:07:49

Amy deleted it. She also deleted the first. I don't believe she had read either.

If she had, the second at the very least, would not have been deleted.

And please answer my question.

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 20:07:50

That's a good idea Mintyy.

No name changing apart from seasonal, everyone welcome, but robust discussion allowed.

If you don't like it, hide it.

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 20:08:43

The second thread did not break any guidelines.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:08:48

if they break guidelines

fine fine

so (for the fourth time):And could you explain why a thread on SITE STUFF asking why a thread was deleted = "a thread about a thread?"

And EXACTLY HOW ELSE IS ONE SUPPOSED TO ASK THAT QUESTION?

ButThereAgain Thu 05-Dec-13 20:09:50

Honestly, truly Rebecca the second thread was not a rehash in any way. It was a perfectly pleasant discussion. The deletion of it was just wrong.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:10:12

How, in the name of dear sweet farther Christmas, is asking in SITE STUFF why a thread was deleted breaking guidelines?????????????

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:10:24

father dammit

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 20:11:12

Could you please refer this to Justine when she has time.

There is no way the second thread should have gone. And if this one does I'm seriously up for a molldiespart 2 if anyone wants to start one.

No invites or black balling though. My nerves wouldn't cope

HanneHolm Thu 05-Dec-13 20:11:37

imagine the red chair on Graham norton.

this is it wink

HanneHolm Thu 05-Dec-13 20:11:57

Justine is out on the town.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:12:01

yep, with you there mary

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 05-Dec-13 20:12:11

Hullygully

if they break guidelines

fine fine

so (for the fourth time):And could you explain why a thread on SITE STUFF asking why a thread was deleted = "a thread about a thread?"

And EXACTLY HOW ELSE IS ONE SUPPOSED TO ASK THAT QUESTION?

Apologies if that was the purpose of the thread then you should have had a response.

We did send you an email, will have a look for your reply now.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:13:23

It was the title: Why was my Santa thread deleted.

Can't get clearer as to intent than that surely.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:14:38

Why was my Santa thread deleted??

^^ Look.

Not much room for misinterpretation there.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:16:04

It was good to see you too.

With all due respect, that is rubbish. Did you read the thread? The first
thread was looking for an interesting debate and got a few twits being
personally insulting (which I don't care about) but was largely fine, and
deleted for no good reason. It certainly wasn't a "bunfight." A few twits
calling me names isn't a bunfight.

The second thread was to ASK WHY and was a perfectly pleasant and nice
thread. I put it in site stuff as I was ASKING WHY the thread was deleted.
So of course it's a thread about a thread...There was very little mention of
the actual debate. It was mostly TS ELiot's poetry. You didn't read that
either, did you?

I have started a thread in site stuff asking for clarification for all of
us. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to post there.

This^^ was my reply (to save you looking).

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:16:35

And I had no response to that.

HootShoot Thu 05-Dec-13 20:17:53

As an aside I was part of a break away from another forum. It was fun for a bit but eventually imploded as it got a bit dull having the same old debates with the same people. Plus you need new blood to keep a forum going, for every couple of new twits (as you call them) you get an interesting member who contributes something to the site. It wasn't the utopia we thought it would be.

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 20:18:57

This all makes me sad.

<dangles tinsel>

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:19:45

It makes me sad because it's a whole bucket of raving nonsense

ThistletoeAndWine Thu 05-Dec-13 20:20:52

Well if u can't have a decent debate then what's the point in freedom of speech (well until it gets personal then there's no need)

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 20:20:54

Things ain't what they used to be.

<channels inner cockney>

HoneyDragon Thu 05-Dec-13 20:21:26

Exit

What happened to your dog?!

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 05-Dec-13 20:21:27

Well apologies if there was an error on our part.

I do believe that the first thread was removed with good reason. The second also but you should have been responded to faster - for that we can only apologise.

The second thread did appear to follow a similar course to the first and it did break our guidelines by doing that. Apologies if we seem a little heavy handed and you didn't feel that we responded to your questions at the time.

Hopefully we have helped to clarify a little.

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 20:23:08

Ooh don't ask Honey. It's hideous fsad

bruxeur Thu 05-Dec-13 20:23:48

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:24:06

I wasn't responded to at all. I got a standard email that was erroneous and then nothing.

No it doesn't clarify anything, you've said exactly the same thing.

And I still want to know this:

And could you explain why a thread on SITE STUFF asking why a thread was deleted = "a thread about a thread?"

And EXACTLY HOW ELSE IS ONE SUPPOSED TO ASK THAT QUESTION?

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 20:24:49

I've been on two long threads over te past couple of days which have been real bunfights.

There are posters telling out and out lies. Scary lies that could seriously damage vulnerable people. Lies that they have repeated even after it has been proven by links to court judgements that they are lies.

Those threads are still there.

The posters are continuing to lie - and link to blogs that are complete fabrications.

Maybe mnhq should re-prioritise.

This is about Father Christmas ffs, it's hardly a matter of life and death. Let us talk about it if we want to.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:25:15

I really understand that you all have to stick together and present a united front etc, and that's fine, but it does mean that this is all a bit shit.

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 20:25:28

Harsh bruxeur!

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 05-Dec-13 20:25:51

Maryz

I've been on two long threads over te past couple of days which have been real bunfights.

There are posters telling out and out lies. Scary lies that could seriously damage vulnerable people. Lies that they have repeated even after it has been proven by links to court judgements that they are lies.

Those threads are still there.

The posters are continuing to lie - and link to blogs that are complete fabrications.

Maybe mnhq should re-prioritise.

This is about Father Christmas ffs, it's hardly a matter of life and death. Let us talk about it if we want to.

Have you reported them Maryz?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:26:47

Rebecca.

I still want to know this:

And could you explain why a thread on SITE STUFF asking why a thread was deleted = "a thread about a thread?"

And EXACTLY HOW ELSE IS ONE SUPPOSED TO ASK THAT QUESTION?

bruxeur Thu 05-Dec-13 20:27:29

Not really, Exit - any apology with the conditional "if" in it can do one, frankly.

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 05-Dec-13 20:27:57

Hullygully

I wasn't responded to at all. I got a standard email that was erroneous and then nothing.

No it doesn't clarify anything, you've said exactly the same thing.

And I still want to know this:

And could you explain why a thread on SITE STUFF asking why a thread was deleted = "a thread about a thread?"

And EXACTLY HOW ELSE IS ONE SUPPOSED TO ASK THAT QUESTION?

Hully, If a thread - even one with a clear question in the title, goes on to talk about the same issues as in the first removed thread - then it is considered a thread about a thread.

Our error was not posting a response to your question on that second thread before it was removed - we should have been more transparent and for that I can only apologise.

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 20:28:11

Oh they have been reported.

Mnhq are on them.

But you are letting people say what they like, as you always do on that particular topic [bitter]

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:29:04

It didn't talk about them. People mentioned them once or twice, but mostly it was other stuff.

That is ridiculous. And NOT something I've seen before.

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 20:29:28

Are you really going to delete every thread asking for clarification as a Taat?

Wow

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:30:12

Also, is no one ever allowed to talk about the existence of santa or not again?

Because that will be a thread about a thread, won't it?

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine Thu 05-Dec-13 20:30:13

The guidelines don't say "you can't have a thread about a thread".

They say "If a thread is deleted, please resist the temptation to start a new one repeating and rehashing everything that has been deleted."

So you can't delete a thread that doesn't repeat or rehash stuff from a deleted thread and then just shrug and point at the guidelines.

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 20:30:20

I'm a bit scared now.

bruxeur Thu 05-Dec-13 20:30:23

But you've just said that the TAAT rule isn't absolute. You can't even maintain a consistent position from one of you on one thread. And you can't understand that is both ridiculous and frustrating?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:31:37

And UNFAIR and ILLOGICAL

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 20:31:39

Shall I report nickels thread?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:32:42

Am I paranoid?

I fear not

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 20:34:15

You might all go off to form Goldies and leave me here.

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine Thu 05-Dec-13 20:34:30

"If a thread - even one with a clear question in the title, goes on to talk about the same issues as in the first removed thread - then it is considered a thread about a thread."

So if another thread ever goes on to talk about the issue of "what to say to children about Santa" then it will be considered a thread about a thread? Mumsnet's been going for a good while now; you must have had deleted threads on every subject under the sun, so you'd better get started on deleting all the current threads as I bet most of them are talking about the same issues as have come up in deleted threads.

There's a difference between "repeating and rehashing" and "talking about the same issues". Surely, surely you can see that?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:34:53

You're too thick to come, you don't even understand why santa is going to destroy the world grin

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:35:47

Sometimes the indefensible is best served with just a yeah soz, hands up, that was a mistake, rather than equivocation

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 20:36:29

Will you all call him by his proper name please.

Santa is just so naff

bruxeur Thu 05-Dec-13 20:36:53

I know that sometimes the mods get a wide-on for deleting certain people - I once had a hilariously unintentional email from MNHQ that confirmed this. NB - there is a difference between "reply" and "forward".

So probably not that paranoid, Hully.

HoleyGhost Thu 05-Dec-13 20:37:23

Indeed MaryZ , that kind of scaremongering is serious.

Censoring a thread asking why a Santa thread was deleted should not be a priority .

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:37:45

I know I know, bruxeur

HoneyDragon Thu 05-Dec-13 20:38:03

Exit, I've been whittling about you sad, that looks like the sort of thing that causes psychological scarring for owners as well as the dog, so quite understand if you don't want to say xx

HoneyDragon Thu 05-Dec-13 20:38:51

StNicholas?

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 20:38:54

What's a wide-on fconfused

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 20:39:30

What's whittling?

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 20:39:47

Hully, we haven't always got on too well but YOU ARE RIGHT .
Santa is the dark destroyer and Godwin's law should be changed to anyone who ever mentions royalty in relation to MN.

Haven't RTWFT but don't bail, t'would be a lesser place without you.

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 05-Dec-13 20:40:01

Hullygully

Also, is no one ever allowed to talk about the existence of santa or not again?

Because that will be a thread about a thread, won't it?

Sorry, to be more specific. If the same posters are talking about a thread that was removed about the exact same issues, very shortly after the initial thread was removed - then yes, it's a thread about a thread.

There were also several personal attacks against other posters from the original thread on the second thread.

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 20:40:26

I'll pm you Honey when not on my phone.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:41:10

No there weren't. Not a single name was mentioned. I said I had been insulted by a group of twits, that was all.

The only person attacked on either thread was bloody me

BriarcliffBelle Thu 05-Dec-13 20:42:01

The same posters very shortly after....?

Seriously? Wow.

HoneyDragon Thu 05-Dec-13 20:42:37

Whittling is a condition I inherited from my mil grin. It mean low grade but continuous worrying that won't bugger off, rather than wood carving.

It shows my level of whittleness that I let slip and typed it grin

bruxeur Thu 05-Dec-13 20:42:44

That's some impressive recall from someone who admitted fairly recently that they hadn't read the thread.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:42:54

No there weren't Rebecca. I talked about a group of twits, that was all. The only personal attacks on either thread were directed at me.

And could you explain why a thread on SITE STUFF asking why a thread was deleted = "a thread about a thread?"

And EXACTLY HOW ELSE IS ONE SUPPOSED TO ASK THAT QUESTION

HoneyDragon Thu 05-Dec-13 20:43:10

Oh and thanks to exit

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:46:57

Really I like to have a nice time, a laugh and sometimes a heated debate, I hate all this crap. But I CAN'T LET UNFAIRNESS AND ILLOGICALITY just slide by.

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 20:48:31

I whittle constantly then fgrin

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 05-Dec-13 20:49:13

Hullygully

No there weren't Rebecca. I talked about a group of twits, that was all. The only personal attacks on either thread were directed at me.

And could you explain why a thread on SITE STUFF asking why a thread was deleted = "a thread about a thread?"

And EXACTLY HOW ELSE IS ONE SUPPOSED TO ASK THAT QUESTION

I think you have asked that question now Hully and I have tried my best to answer it on this thread in site stuff. Apologies that we didn't answer on your previous site stuff thread.

And we are always here if you'd like to mail?

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 20:49:40

So, to clarify, if Hully went on nickel's thread, would it be deleted.

Or would she be banned for being goady?

How many of the people from Hully's thread are allowed to go to nickel's and give their opinions?

Can you not see that this isn't a feasible way to do things?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:51:11

I would email, but lots of people share the same concerns, so it seems a bit daft.

How should I have asked my question then to avoid it being a thread about a thread?

Should I have put "Why was my Santa thread deleted??" Don't anyone else dare post or this will be deleted?

Lifeisaboxofchocs Thu 05-Dec-13 20:51:27

"But I CAN'T LET UNFAIRNESS AND ILLOGICALITY just slide by.'

Awesome.

Perhaps channel it to something a tad more worthwhile than this?

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 20:51:47

Rebecca, you have to appreciate how frustrating this is.

It's like having kindergarten rules in an adult pub.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:52:07

And you haven't addressed the fact that there weren't personal attacks on the second thread either. Which was thrown in as an additional deletion reason.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 20:54:35

I'm going now

I am really really disappointed by this.

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 20:57:55

<pours Hully a soothing egg nog>

bruxeur Thu 05-Dec-13 20:58:34

Jesus Christ on a second-hand Segway! I'm not sure this one is even Turing +ve.

HotheadPaisan Thu 05-Dec-13 21:00:11

I've only been back 5 mins. Couldn't communities moderate themselves a bit? So what if there's an arguement, just hide it, or talk over it.

Hully, If a thread - even one with a clear question in the title, goes on to talk about the same issues as in the first removed thread - then it is considered a thread about a thread.

This is just completely stupid! The 'issues' were father christmas and how or whether and why we lie to children about it, and the repercussions of that. I didn't see the first thread but the second 'why' thread was great. There were lots of really intelligent posts that people had obviously put a lot of thought into. I saw no bunfightery and I'm quite pissed off that it's gone.

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 05-Dec-13 21:04:20

PlentyOfPubeGardens

^Hully, If a thread - even one with a clear question in the title, goes on to talk about the same issues as in the first removed thread - then it is considered a thread about a thread.^

This is just completely stupid! The 'issues' were father christmas and how or whether and why we lie to children about it, and the repercussions of that. I didn't see the first thread but the second 'why' thread was great. There were lots of really intelligent posts that people had obviously put a lot of thought into. I saw no bunfightery and I'm quite pissed off that it's gone.

Apologies Plenty, I have been more specific in my following posts.

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 21:05:35

Surely every P&C parking thread should be deleted then?

bruxeur Thu 05-Dec-13 21:07:22

I think you may be confusing specificity with repetition, MNHQ.

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 05-Dec-13 21:08:11

Maryz

Rebecca, you have to appreciate how frustrating this is.

It's like having kindergarten rules in an adult pub.

We totally do - it's a judgement call - there are no hard and fast rules BUT Hully was the OP of both threads. Many people from the first came onto the second. The same subject was being discussed in a similar way. We were getting lots of reports. It was a thread about a thread.

We should have posted to explain earlier before removing the thread, apologies.

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 21:10:01

I thought MN was a self moderated board.

It doesn't feel like it anymore.

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 21:10:14

But WHY did many people come from the first thread, were they perhaps just looking for a bit of a bunfight?

Doesn't take a lot of reckoning to work out what's going on.

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 21:10:29

I'd love to know who reports. And why.

BIWI Thu 05-Dec-13 21:11:11

<waves at hothead>

shock at RebeccaMumsnet. Not sure you're really thinking this through ..., and suggesting that Hully emails you indicates that you're uncomfortable with talking about this publicly.

It all seems very silly - as well as unfair

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 21:11:18

Why would someone report it though?

For what reason?

HoneyDragon Thu 05-Dec-13 21:11:59

Oh please yes delete all the P&C threads.

I shall DEMAND this henceforth as a result of this thread

HotheadPaisan Thu 05-Dec-13 21:12:32

People were complaining because other people were talking?

BIWI Thu 05-Dec-13 21:12:55

WHO THE ACTUAL FUCK REPORTS STUFF LIKE THAT?!

Sorry for shouting! but - really ...

LifeofPo Thu 05-Dec-13 21:13:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I think people reported it because they thought it was a thread about a thread. Among other reasons. (I didn't report it btw)

There's obviously confusion about threads about threads. I thought it was against guidelines but apparently it isn't? confused

HotheadPaisan Thu 05-Dec-13 21:15:39

The community would have moderated this one I'm sure, it was fine.

Hello VIII! Look what auto correct does to you!

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 21:15:47

I was enjoying the posts about presents in shoes.

Agreed, usual.

What I'm smelling is fear. MNHQ fear of the accusations of 'known, regular posters' getting 'special treatment'.

So rather than laughing at the ridiculousness of that premise or saying TSSDNCOP, as they used to, they are seeing reports about certain posters and hitting the big red button.

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 21:16:10

Perestroika and Glasnost is wot MN needs.

Mainly Glasnost, openness, if you want to report you have to say you are doing it and why, otherwise no go.

<<not sure it would work mind>>

XmasLogAndHollyOn Thu 05-Dec-13 21:16:30

This is why I hardly come onto MN any more. The site used to be a lot more robust.

I can remember a thread ages ago that wandered from a bunfight to song lyrics to songs and that one got moved to Other Subjects so it didn't get killed by Chat. Now it would get deleted.

It sucks. Seriously.

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine Thu 05-Dec-13 21:16:41

You've been more specific, but really it's just confusing the issue more.

"If the same posters are talking about a thread that was removed about the exact same issues, very shortly after the initial thread was removed - then yes, it's a thread about a thread."

But according to your own guidelines being a thread about a thread isn't a problem in and of itself; it's repeating and rehashing the deleted stuff that's discouraged (and even then the guidelines imply that it will only actually be deleted if it qualifies for deletion in its own right; repeating and rehashing is just seen as an etiquette issue). It's quite possible for the same posters to talk about the same issue and even to refer to a deleted thread without repeating or rehashing.

Why do your guidelines say one thing and current MNHQ deletion policy/practice say another? There's a very good summary of the original rationale for the "don't rehash deleted threads" thing on the other current thread about threads about threads, and it does seem to have been lost sight of.

"There were also several personal attacks against other posters from the original thread on the second thread."

I thought you hadn't read the second thread? Everyone here who did read it says that there weren't any personal attacks.

I meant I agreed about the boards no longer seeming unmoderated.

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine Thu 05-Dec-13 21:16:50

You've been more specific, but really it's just confusing the issue more.

"If the same posters are talking about a thread that was removed about the exact same issues, very shortly after the initial thread was removed - then yes, it's a thread about a thread."

But according to your own guidelines being a thread about a thread isn't a problem in and of itself; it's repeating and rehashing the deleted stuff that's discouraged (and even then the guidelines imply that it will only actually be deleted if it qualifies for deletion in its own right; repeating and rehashing is just seen as an etiquette issue). It's quite possible for the same posters to talk about the same issue and even to refer to a deleted thread without repeating or rehashing.

Why do your guidelines say one thing and current MNHQ deletion policy/practice say another? There's a very good summary of the original rationale for the "don't rehash deleted threads" thing on the other current thread about threads about threads, and it does seem to have been lost sight of.

"There were also several personal attacks against other posters from the original thread on the second thread."

I thought you hadn't read the second thread? Everyone here who did read it says that there weren't any personal attacks.

Apologies Plenty, I have been more specific in my following posts.

Yes I read the following posts too, it still makes no sense.

I usually steer well clear of mn politics but I'm starting to wonder if it's something to do with Hully. First she's not allowed to 'banter' and now she's not allowed to debate. Has there been some sort of focus group that has decided Hully's posts put off advertisers or something?

First thread - I didn't see it, I can understand if it was deleted because it turned into a bunfight (not Hully's fault by all accounts)

Second thread - really good discussion, no PA's that I saw, made me think, can't understand why it went at all, unless either TAAT are against the rules with no exceptions, or it's something to do with Hully. IT WAS A GREAT THREAD.

HoleyGhost Thu 05-Dec-13 21:17:49

Lots of reports can easily be generated by saddos on Facebook groups getting their mates to pile in. When the reports are baseless (like here) surely they should not be acted on?

LifeofPo Thu 05-Dec-13 21:18:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine Thu 05-Dec-13 21:18:36

Um. Clearly I felt extra specially strongly about that...

there are no hard and fast rules BUT Hully was the OP of both threads.

Ah, very interesting x-post.

bruxeur Thu 05-Dec-13 21:20:08

I asked about the reading/not reading of the second thread, Cakeetc. I wonder if you'll have more luck with a reply?

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 21:20:27

Of course they are moderated, no site would seriously leave themselves open to being sued these days.
It's the ninnies who report stuff because they are 'offended' who need to be moderated.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 21:20:38

There were people from the first thread because...

drum roll...

they too wanted to know wtf had happened.

Then we just talked to each other pleasantly

How many people have to tell you it was pleasant and there were no pas?

LifeofPo Thu 05-Dec-13 21:20:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 21:21:43

Of course I was the op of both threads

The second was asking what happened to the first

<scratches head>

Monetbyhimself Thu 05-Dec-13 21:21:54

Is this outrage for real ? shock

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 21:22:13

The PO will inherit MN?

That's sad.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 21:22:25

Mine is.

LifeofPo Thu 05-Dec-13 21:22:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ubik1 Thu 05-Dec-13 21:23:19

I thought Hully was being an arse. But that's never been a reason for deleting a thread confused

Why would you report it? Stating that people are arses for not endorsing the magic and beauty of Santa, is part of the fun...

ExcuseTypos Thu 05-Dec-13 21:24:38

Has MNHQ been on a little too much gin?

None of this makes any sense.

ShreddedHoops Thu 05-Dec-13 21:25:40

Oh fgs, just leave and start your own site rather than haranguing the people who run this one. What exactly are you hoping to achieve here? You're behaving like a needy friend / toddler / teen. It's only a website - get a grip. It really does seem like Moldies all over again - the same small group of posters banging on about how it's not the same anymore and trying to tell the staff how to run their own site. hmm I don't know why I keep clicking on these threads but I doubt I'm the only one who just thinks ffs find a different website then.

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 21:26:58

So don't bother then ShreddedHoops.

You can always dereg yourself.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 21:27:05

hear hear hoops

bloody well said

bruxeur Thu 05-Dec-13 21:27:45

Never seen MNHQ sockpuppeting before. Most unedifying.

greenhill Thu 05-Dec-13 21:27:53

I'm a big reporter of threads. I wouldn't have reported the original thread or this one.

hully you are an acerbic poster, but never a dull one. I think you are being targeted. It is not fair...

XmasLogAndHollyOn Thu 05-Dec-13 21:28:06

Yay Shredded!

Thanks for that totes amazeballs reply. Its like so deep. Seriously dude, I stay here just for you! <MWAH>

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 21:28:06

stop moaning everyone, line yourselves up to be shot and ask no questions like good little tommies

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 21:30:52

Do you think this is something to do with faber & faber's shithot legal team and all the TS Eliot?

Golddigger Thu 05-Dec-13 21:30:55

Isnt it often said that if you dont like the site, then leave?
Dont actually agree with that myself, but there are definitely some complaining posters who have said that themselves many times before.

ShreddedHoops Thu 05-Dec-13 21:31:19

Haha. Glad I've given you a target! No plans to dereg - it's much the same as it's always been around here. And I like it so I'll stick around.

greenhill Thu 05-Dec-13 21:31:40

I thought you were a submarine captain hully I'm obviously confused...

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 21:33:11

Well you say that Gold but who do you mean?

I really haven't seen that.

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 21:34:10

Shredded lovey, why would you think you are now a target, and for what? confused

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 21:34:23

How are the moldies? are they still going? Do they have any fun or is the ideas-gene-pool utterly deracinated by exclusivity and they all have tiny heads and can't say the letter"s" because there is something funny about their lower jaws?

BIWI Thu 05-Dec-13 21:34:53

Are you a namechanger then Shredded? Because a search of your name suggests that you've only been here for a few months. In which case you might like to wonder why people are cross about this.

If you're not a namechanger, then surely you would understand the point behind this thread?

bruxeur Thu 05-Dec-13 21:35:14

It's often said - by idiots.

See also country/job/relationship, and takes no account of the complexity of, y'know, adult life in which one has to work at problems and in which one can love the whole and not enjoy a component thereof.

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 21:35:49

Sure stick around, I was only suggesting you also have the choice of finding another site.

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 21:36:46

Let us go then. You and I.

ShreddedHoops Thu 05-Dec-13 21:39:00

BIWI I'm a frequent namechanger. I just don't get why some long standing posters get so irate when HQ delete threads because of goading / PAsor whatever. Last time iirc Hully you were upset that you weren't allowed to banter, and wanted a topic for that, now you're upset that you were trying to be serious (although I don't think you were but that's beside the point) and you want a topic for that? Really HQ always seem to pretty much stick to their rules for deletions - what do you want from them exactly?

ShreddedHoops Thu 05-Dec-13 21:39:47

Reeling I'm quite happy here. I have no beef with the site. Those who do have the choice of other forums.

Mouldies was five years ago.

Just sayin'.

SconeForAStroll Thu 05-Dec-13 21:42:06

I was very much enjoying the TS Eliot on the second thread having completely missed the first. It seemed perfectly reasonable and discursive.

It seems such bizarre modding. It doesn't make sense. I wish HelenMN hadn't left. sad

BriarcliffBelle Thu 05-Dec-13 21:42:21

They really don't though, Shredded, stick to their own Roolz.

It's all terribly subjective.

Some people might say Oh well! to that, but others have the right not to.

HotheadPaisan Thu 05-Dec-13 21:42:23

TS Eliot always makes me want to slip into Donne's had we but world enough and time.

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 21:42:24

But you do seem to have a beef with people who aren't happy with the way the site is changing.
Why stick your oar in if you don't care?
My point is that if you don't like people saying they aren't happy then you don't have to read those threads or get involved.
No need to poke a wasps nest is there?

IamtheZombie Thu 05-Dec-13 21:42:30

Zombie is sad that this same sort of 'discussion' is occurring so often recently.

BIWI Thu 05-Dec-13 21:42:31

Well why not read the threads more carefully? Then you might understand why some people are so irate?

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 21:42:39

I wasn't here then (came soon after). That is why I was wondering really - in 5 years you either need new blood or you accept that the current generation of discourse is going to be pretty weak and warped

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 21:42:58

I miss Helen.

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 21:43:09

sorry x-post to godresttee

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 21:43:59

exitpursued smile

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 21:45:12

See Shredded, why did you have to add that bit about not really believing that Hully wanted to be serious?

Not necessary.

That is just stirring an already boiling pot.

MyMILisfromHELL Thu 05-Dec-13 21:47:26

Apologies, have only read the op.

You can't even post a thread to discuss social injustice in the UK without it being pulled.

MNHQ have their own agenda IMO

SconeForAStroll Thu 05-Dec-13 21:47:40

I do understand of MNHQ want to change the site and its ethos. It is their right of course, but following on from Justine's impassioned defence a couple of weeks ago it appeared that it wasn't the case.

This implies something quite different.

ShreddedHoops Thu 05-Dec-13 21:48:58

Reeling - I enjoyed the Santa thread - would you say it was posted in seriousness? Cos I wouldn't have thought it was. Anyway it was a bunfight by the end, ergo deleted. Then a taat, also deleted. Several posters enjoy banter on threads like that and some get very irate when they're deleted. Dunno - these threads are a bit car-crash though, I can't seem to tear myself away, imagining HQ going hmm and confused at them!

ShreddedHoops Thu 05-Dec-13 21:49:54

Scone - do you think HQ want to change the ethos of the site? In what way? I don't feel like it's changed.

greenhill Thu 05-Dec-13 21:50:49

BTW my DH's DF has written the definitive book on T S Eliot. The quotations were very expensive and the family were v unhelpful. <random>

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 21:52:47

interesting, greenhill - probably is about the Eliot.
(dying to know who your FIL is)

ShreddedHoops Thu 05-Dec-13 21:52:51

Briar - on the HQ web chat they admitted that different mods may treat threads slightly differently and there's not much to solve that. But they do have a set of guidelines and dunno, I thought the webchat was clear and simple.

SconeForAStroll Thu 05-Dec-13 21:52:54

Because a couple of years ago bunfighty threads were generally given the opportunity to be derailed and brought to often hilarious conclusions.

I can't remember that happening in recent times.

SinterklaasSterm Thu 05-Dec-13 21:53:36

i am a bit concerned after meeting several members of MNHQ on Saturday - I think you were there Rebecca ;-) Whilst for most websites it might be fine to have 21 yo graduates doing the moderation, I am not sure it is the best idea on MN. How can they possibly have the life experience to know what is a joke/what is bullying/what is acceptable/what is not?

Theworldisbiggerthanyou Thu 05-Dec-13 21:53:51

Shredded I actual agree with you.
I also think that should the posters on here flame you for having this opinion then it will reaffirm comments made by some posters yesterday. It is ok for those who fall in to the "we've been here ages and are mates" group to disagree with other members but how dare anyone else have an opinion against them.
I think Hully has been argumentative and spoilt in her quest for an answer. She was given more than one by Rebecca but because it didn't suit she refused to accept it.

The mods are doing their job. I wouldn't walk in to a shop and tell the assistant she is pathetic or constantly have a go at her just because I did not agree with the shop owners policies. Pretty much how Hully and clan have conducted themselves here.
You are members of this site you do not own or run it. You don't like their rules or reasoning's then leave. Simple answer.

SconeForAStroll Thu 05-Dec-13 21:54:04

Anyway, Nelson Mandela has died. sad RIP

SconeForAStroll Thu 05-Dec-13 21:55:14

Amillionyears is that you?

wink

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 21:55:26

They have 21 year olds?!?

<faints>

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 21:56:21

I was going to post that Scone but didn't want to derail the thread. sad

BriarcliffBelle Thu 05-Dec-13 21:56:37

slightly differently doesn't mean lean on the Delete button til it squeals, Shredded.

Of course there are going to be different judgement calls according to who is on duty.

When that minor inconsistency and natural variation becomes a trend however, it does change a site.

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 21:56:54

Not saying you have.

<ties self in knots>

SconeForAStroll Thu 05-Dec-13 21:57:50

Sorry. I like derailment. Unless it is a train when it is officially A Very bad Thing obv.

SconeForAStroll Thu 05-Dec-13 21:58:27

<adds a double reef knot>

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 22:00:17

Why on earth were mnhq getting "lots of reports" about the second thread.

What were people reporting?

Hey, watch out, people are carting on this thread, delete it quick?

Or

Hey, watch out, that cow Hully has started another thread. I don't like her, delete it quick?

Ffs.

BriarcliffBelle Thu 05-Dec-13 22:01:12

Ah now, the age of an MN staffer is irrelevant. It's the training and specific moderation guidelines that are important.

ArtexMonkey Thu 05-Dec-13 22:01:59

It's bullshit is what it is. I think there's a bit of what happened with AF and TSC going on - tall poppy syndrome. People who stand out for whatever reason get reported and reported and reported, and people who are MUCH CUNTIER but fly under the radar live to cunt another day.

BIWI Thu 05-Dec-13 22:02:46

But actually one of the most fantastic things about Mumsnet is that they listen to us and take our views very seriously, even if they don't like what we are saying.

And you only have to read some of the more recent posts on this thread to see that there are some people here who definitely have an anti-Hully agenda. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find that she gets more reported than other posters.

But thats not really the point, is it?

SconeForAStroll Thu 05-Dec-13 22:05:40

I think it started when hq said they love reports. I think some people abuse use it to the full and forget that as a general rule sorting stuff out on thread should be the default.

Are we self modding at all anymore? It seems that the parts of the site that need careful management are pretty much left to get on with it (SN, fwr) and the larkishness is gradually being strangled.

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 22:07:21

Everything Artex said.

SinterklaasSterm Thu 05-Dec-13 22:07:34

Have to agree with Artex.

BriarcliffBelle Thu 05-Dec-13 22:07:43

Self Modding is a misnomer.

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 22:09:13

And now the 'all regs are cunt' posts have started.

Like that wasn't gonna happen.

ShreddedHoops Thu 05-Dec-13 22:09:38

FWIW BIWI I can only remember reporting for a PA once in my time here - a long time ago, in Feminism, on a thread about Chelsea Clinton where I was accused of being a rape apologist. I reported that. Iirc Hully you were on that thread too! Long time ago. I also report all the bloody ads in S and B. I don't know if Hully personally made any PAs on the threads but there were some and that's why it was deleted. I'm not convinced by the tall Poppy answer but I would be irritated by this kind of a haranguing thread if I was in HQ.

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 22:10:13

carting?

ShreddedHoops Thu 05-Dec-13 22:10:15

Usual who's saying all regs are cunts?

Mintyy Thu 05-Dec-13 22:11:08

Self modding is a total and absolute misnomer.

If the site is to be successfully self modded it needs some shit hot staffers at the other end of the report button making judgements on what is ok and what needs to go. And they need to be au fait with who might just be reporting because they are feeling disgruntled or bewildered or have a personal vendetta, rather than reporting because something is actually offensive and really has to go.

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 22:11:37

Usual, I don't think Artex meant that.

Have I misunderstood you?

BriarcliffBelle Thu 05-Dec-13 22:11:50

That would be very unprofessional of you, Shredded. It's just a job to the MNHQers.

That fact seems to have escaped quite a few people.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 22:11:52

It is all very sad

I started my santa thread in all good faith. I was sat here, quite alone, writing about the cultural mores of a far eastern country, and it set me to wondering about cultures and beliefs etc, and specially, it being nigh on Chrimboloid, father santa, and then I fell to pondering on the nature of delusion and what part it had in our planet's condition, and I was waiting for some info so thought it would be an interesting topic of debate.

That was all.

Then I got called a lot of names including Destroyer of the Christmas Magic, then I went out to watch a very depressing film about th IRA and when I got back, the thread wa s deleted.

So today/yesterday(?) I started a thread asking why. On site stuff, so perfectly legit. A few people turned up to ask yes, why? Then we fell to talking about poetry and musing. And then that was deleted.

Now there are accusations of personal attacks etc that are simply not true, except on me.

It's just not right.

And that matters.

ArtexMonkey Thu 05-Dec-13 22:12:18

"Are we self modding at all anymore?"

Ah, that's an interesting one.

I can remember a while ago, self modding was the name of the game. Someone would post something homophobic, or disablist, or rape mythy, or just plain cunty, and mnhq's response would be 'we're leaving the thread to stand because we think our posters are really great at challenging these views and educating people' etc.

But now if you tell someone that their shit is wack you get reported yo <throws gang signs>

SinterklaasSterm Thu 05-Dec-13 22:13:00

BIWI, bless you, but they don't. If you are on the side of reporting the trolls, the beggars, the short story writers, MNHQ is not on your side. I am team Hully in this one. She has done nothing really, yet get repeatedly deleted threads. The others post their crap all over Active Conversations and no-one can do a single thing about it. I would be upset if I was her.

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 22:13:06

Carting?

Chatting ffs.

Though carting might be fun

SconeForAStroll Thu 05-Dec-13 22:13:09

Sorry <hangs head in shame> bad choice of phrase.

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 22:14:11

I do love you Hully.

But MN would never be my first port of call for a philosophical debate.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 22:14:40

My name is a red rag.

Maybe I should change it?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 22:15:15

But it should be possible exit, whyever not?

usualsuspect Thu 05-Dec-13 22:15:38

Theworldisbiggerthanyous,post

Same old same old.

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 22:15:38

In love with Artex
<<snog>>

BriarcliffBelle Thu 05-Dec-13 22:15:47

Not even the Philosophy Topic? shock

Theworldisbiggerthanyou Thu 05-Dec-13 22:16:41

Just went back and checked usual and nope I didn't call anyone a cunt.

ArtexMonkey Thu 05-Dec-13 22:16:48

I don't think usual meant my post did she? I think she meant the one a few above mine. It would be odd if she did mean mine, because I'd be calling myself a cunt wouldn't I? which I am actually

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 22:16:59

Because you are chucking your thoughts out into the void. Where are all the POs and the twats are waiting to suck the life from them.

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 22:17:21

exit, what would be your first port of call for a philosophical debate?

ShreddedHoops Thu 05-Dec-13 22:17:24

Didn't you post in AIBU Hully? Did you not think it might end up bunfighty? If you wanted a debate why not in Chat, Christmas or in the apparently available Philosophy section?

SinterklaasSterm Thu 05-Dec-13 22:17:26

No way Hully!

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 22:17:36

oh yes, exit, I always forget that

reelingaroundthechristmastree Thu 05-Dec-13 22:17:49

My mistake usual, sorry, didn't see it.

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 22:18:02

No hoops, I don't think like that

Maryz Thu 05-Dec-13 22:18:09

And the liars, don't forget the liars.

Provided they say "it's just my opinion, you can't contradict me, you are stifling debate" they can say what they like angry

ArtexMonkey Thu 05-Dec-13 22:18:20

See, x posts, phew.

<<snogs>> reeling right back x

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 05-Dec-13 22:18:47

Sadly Mildred, my own head. Or failing that my best friend.

thecatfromjapan Thu 05-Dec-13 22:18:55

Can i commend youretoastmildred on her rigorous pursuit of the metaphor/idea that ideas reproduce and may be considered semi-autonomous non-carbon, non-bodily organisms? And her application of this idea to the context of splinter/bounded-membership fora forums?

I like that! Thank you for sharing it.

I think the Eliot estate is under pressure to share Mr Eliot's heritage a little more.

But I don;t think I care enough to rummage around and find any that I can post.

i find these "Whither mumsnet" discussions fascinating because of the light they shed on internet behaviour (as it evolves). Do people really rustle up a Facebook gang to come over and report threads? <boggle>

Actually, we need a <boggle> icon. confused is no way strong enough.

BIWI Thu 05-Dec-13 22:19:05

I suppose that's why it's so frustrating Sinterklass. I genuinely do believe that MNHQ try to listen to us.

But on certain issues, like this one, it's like they dig in their heels and continue to support a initial, unwise decision with a series of unconvincing posts.

Oh, and I'm definitely Team Hully.

<dons tiara>

ShreddedHoops Thu 05-Dec-13 22:20:28

Well I'm not saying it should necessarily turn into a bunfight if it's in AIBU, but it's a distinct possibility. Not your fault - as you say, there were PAs aimed at you, which is crap. But then the thread was deleted. So really, all is well. No? Next time post somewhere more conducive to a philosophical debate?

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 22:20:31

yes biwi

Office behaviour <channels Desmond Morris or similar>

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 22:21:22

I love you mildred and cat, you are now on my Love List

Try not to faint with the honour

ArtexMonkey Thu 05-Dec-13 22:21:25

I hate this thing about it's a given that aibu is like no holds barred, gloves off, full on balls to the wall cuntery.

Self fulfilling prophecy IMO. 'Oh it's aibu, what did you expect' as some poor old flambeed parent and child parking space fan limps away sobbing. It's ruining the entire rest of the site.

youretoastmildred Thu 05-Dec-13 22:21:27

But exit, irl you are not allowed to have a philosophical debate because a minority of people like them and the facts of physics are that only one person can talk at any one time in a group and groups are stastistically only big enough to contain one or two people who want a philosophical debate and the others who feel threatened by it close it down by a variety of means. On the internet there are many more people, so statistically a greater number will be up for it; and those who hate it and feel threatened by it can't actually physically talk over you or turn their backs on you or make twirly finger gestures by their temples at you. So you can physically do it and find people who want to do it with you; it is just annoying that the others find other ways of making sure that we are only allowed to talk SCHTEWPID (said in voice of Trisha Yates in first series of Grange Hill saying "you firstcheers are all SCHTEWPID")

BriarcliffBelle Thu 05-Dec-13 22:21:33

It's a shame all the Googling/Cut N Paste of Eliot has stopped fsad

Hullygully Thu 05-Dec-13 22:23:01