Why we temporarily banned Anyfucker and what next

(1006 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread. Read here.

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 21:18:19

Hi all,
So as many have pointed out there are an awful lot of threads about AF from last night and today, many of them repeating the same stuff, some of them including misapprehensions.

So we thought it best to state our position on the matter fully here and to lock the other threads so anyone with stuff to say can say it here and it's all easier to follow. (Apols for any difficulties you've had in following all this because of multiple threads - we don't normally allow them but in this case, as there was a fair bit of MNHQ conspiracy theory floating around, we thought it best not to start deleting things today).

So first why did we ban, or more accurately suspend, AF for a week?
As already stated AF did break our Talk Guidelines a lot wrt troll-hunting, PAs and generally aggressive behaviour.

We have looked back and found we've sent her nine mails of the 'please stick to Guidelines or we'll have to take further action' variety and we've banned her once before. There have been c. 600 reports of her posts - and there are 1100 cases in our system concerning her one way or another (not including any name changes). We've deleted
posts under the name 'AnyFucker' 185 times (some of those reports will be duplicate reports of the same post, so it's not that we've deleted 185 out of 600 posts reported).

It is not the case that most of these posts were in response to trolls, plenty were against folks most would agree were regular posters. Others were against folks she thought might be trolls but we could see were not. Some were against folks who were subsequently banned.

We haven't actually been able to forensically analyse each of the 600 cases - it really would mean going back through each thread - but we will over the next little while if folks think it necessary.

Some people have been calling for an auto-ban mechanism for posters who are multiply reported - if we had one of these AF would have been likely banned a few more times than she actually has.

We wrote to AF a couple of weeks ago after deleting some of her posts warning that if she crossed the line again we'd have to suspend her and that's what we did yesterday. She wrote back to say she knew it was coming.

We don't take these decisions lightly wrt Mumsnetters who've been contributing for so long and whom we know so well. We agree AF's a fantastic poster who goes out her way to help others but we're not talking isolated incidents here and it's very often not directed at actual trolls. Often we're talking about aggression/personal attacks/accusations of trolling against other Mumsnetters who AF disagrees with.

Plenty of people today have cited examples of this type of behaviour. Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there. And of course, plenty of others have cited examples of AF's kindness and support on those same boards.

But what would you really have us do? Ignore the PAs against Mumsnetters? Ignore those posters who report such PAs to us? We are not talking exclusively PAs on trolls here. If you've been following today's threads you have to accept that. Believe me, we have not been trigger happy here. The last thing we want is for AF, or posters like AF who offer so much to Mumsnetters, to leave MN. But we have a few rules for very good reasons we think. Without them, Mumsnet would be incredibly insular and one dimensional and very unwelcoming to newcomers. We have to accept that if folks can't live with those rules then, ultimately, that's their decision.

I think it's worth saying what we do believe in, here at MNHQ, because although the site has grown, these values (if that's not too aggrandising) really haven't changed since it started.

We believe that the pooling of knowledge and advice makes parents' lives easier.
We believe in tolerance of differing opinions and in letting the conversation flow wherever possible.
We believe in listening and engaging and being transparent as much as we can.

We do have things we don't tolerate (which have been honed and refined over the years by collective user experience) because we think they are less likely to promote the things MN values. Namely personal attacks, deliberately inflammatory posts, posts that break law/hate speech.
We will also delete things that are downright mean and obscene (though clearly this is a matter of judgement).

We have never billed MN as a safe haven. It is open and searchable and public so can never be as safe as a closed, heavily moderated or pre-moderated environment would be.

It is a largely female space and we think that is incredibly valuable in a male dominated internet/ world. But it is not an exclusively female - it's by parents for parents and it always has been. Men are welcome to post and to express their opinions and we've had many valuable male Mumsnetters over the years.

Quite apart from anything it would both be impractical and possibly illegal to have it otherwise.

Obviously there are things we at MNHQ can do better. We are never going to be entirely consistent in our moderation as we are human and it often come down to fine judgement calls. And we apologise in advance for inconsistencies but can only say we really do try our best.

In the case of this ban/suspension, as many have pointed out, we could have communicated what had happened and why more quickly and more clearly.

Some people have suggested a clear, more widely known "sin bin" procedure and we'll certainly look at that.

We will look at resources and response times generally to reported posts and are working on empowering all HQ mods to post on the boards and to be transparent as possible. (NB this would be easier if HQ mods felt they could post in an atmosphere of tolerance and understanding grin.)

We do put a lot of energy into investigating and banning trolls. We don't make a fanfare every time we ban someone for obvious reasons - trolls are here for the attention. But I concede that maybe that adds to the atmosphere that we are tolerating/ignoring/doing nothing about trolls. So we will think about that.

We don't have any auto suspend in place but we might look at that based on a large amount of reports of a particular poster.

And as suggested by someone (apols have forgotten who) we'll hold an MNHQ mods webchat with me, Rowan and Rebecca on Friday 8th at lunchtime and will open a thread in advance, so anyone who can't make the chat can post their question.

Please, of course, post your thoughts and further suggestions here before then, or whenever suits.

Sorry for the very long post - thanks to those who've read to the end.

(We'll be locking all the other threads in the next little bit.)

quietlysuggests Thu 24-Oct-13 21:23:03

Sounds fair enough.

FlaseFuckerSpider Thu 24-Oct-13 21:25:16

Thanks for the update. There was an almighty riot here last night. Did you get a lie in this morning? I didn't

The thing that I wonder is what do you do if there's a targeted attack against individual posters and others get away with being rude etc?

I have to say the whole thing is a bit confused

WingDefence Thu 24-Oct-13 21:30:19

Thanks for this clear post, Justine. I've always appreciated AF's posts on the Relationships thread but rulesguidelines are there for a reason.

hermioneweasley Thu 24-Oct-13 21:30:40

Thanks for the update. Once explained it seems reasonable, but a shame it's taken 24 hours during which rumour and high feelings have built up.

Gobbolinothewitchscat Thu 24-Oct-13 21:31:03

Good idea to just have one thread and glad to see a comprehensive explanation

Things just seemed to get totally out of hand last night - quite surprisingly so.

SwedishEdith Thu 24-Oct-13 21:31:27

Wow, at AF having 1100 cases in your system about herself. envygrin

NoelHeadbandz Thu 24-Oct-13 21:32:49

I feel a bit icky reading that tbh- like being privy to someone else's school report

bsc Thu 24-Oct-13 21:33:02

I think the issue creature raises is a difficult one. They are lots of little coteries on here who are quite happy to all pitch in and report en masse and I think MNHQ have a difficult job seeing through that sometimes.
And the goaders too, of course.

Nice to know MNHQ will still have dialogue about it though and that has to be a good thing smile

RhondaJean Thu 24-Oct-13 21:33:32

Thank you justine.

Someone suggested that people could be given temporary bans from changing nicknames. That sounded like a good idea and you may want to consider it for the future.

SHRIIIEEEKFuckingBearBlood Thu 24-Oct-13 21:33:50

Yes thanks for the explanation. I would be very upset if she had bee banned for good but it sounds as though sbe was expecting a temporary ban

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 21:34:02

hermioneweasley

Thanks for the update. Once explained it seems reasonable, but a shame it's taken 24 hours during which rumour and high feelings have built up.

Well to be fair Hermione I did post a lot of it last night - just not the factual analysis stuff.

LtAllHallowsEve Thu 24-Oct-13 21:34:45

Justine, as you are going to lock the other threads, I hope it's OK to repost something I wrote on one of them:

"Rowan (and I will report my post so it is seen)

I have a suggestion and would be interested in your views. We report posts that we find Goady/PA etc, and you delete individual posts. If enough posts on a thread are deleted, you then tend to delete the thread.

Would be able to start reporting Posters, and have you look into their most recent posts, deciding then if that poster is a Goady Fucker who is just out to cause trouble

There are a number of posters on MN who seem to be deliberately inflammatory. Their single posts on single threads are unlikely to push any buttons, because they are challenged (or ignored) on the thread, but actually, when you look at the bigger picture, when you've come across them a number of times and they are saying the same old muck, or yet again posting against the 'general tone' of the thread etc then it becomes more obvious.

Yesterday's poster for eg was Goady on that thread, and when I searched had posted a number of 'one off' posts on other threads that were stirring, or quite abrasive/rude. Taken as a one off you could say she was just having a bad day or a bad time, but taken in conjunction with her other posts she started to look very 'troll-like'. She most definately wasn't as new as she had said, so was lying from the start.

Even on this thread there are a couple of what I would call 'suspicious' posters, and it would be helpful to someone like me if I could call them to your attention and just say 'could you have a look at this one'. Sometimes it's hard to do this when you are confronted by the 'more than 500 posts' message.

What do you think? And what do MNers think?"

I was thinking along the lines of a Report Poster tick box being added to the Report Thread Page, alongside Report as Spam and Report for other Reasons.

(Actually, maybe I should have left this for the webchat...)

ScreamingNaanAndGoryOn Thu 24-Oct-13 21:34:56

If I was AF, after reading that I probably wouldn't want to come back.

I understand where you're coming from in wanting to defend HQ, but that's an official drubbing of a single poster.

I've not seen you do that before. I'm pretty sad that you have.

Buildingamystery Thu 24-Oct-13 21:35:04

Thanks for the update. Let's hope this quells the hysteria for once and for all.

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 21:35:05

NoelHeadbandz

I feel a bit icky reading that tbh- like being privy to someone else's school report

Yes, agreed NoelH, we really wouldn't normally do this, but we do see it as quite exceptional circumstances given the amount of suspicion in the last 24 hours.

Pan Thu 24-Oct-13 21:35:59

thanks Justine - it was hard to understand why AF would be 'banned' (which I and others took as permanent, rather than suspended) and yet not also wishing to disbelieve other LT posters saying such.

fwiw a bit quicker on the draw with GFs and other 'innocents' would be good, though I know you've been asked this numerous times in the last 24 hrs at least.

UsedToBeNDP Thu 24-Oct-13 21:36:05

One week. All this handwringing and hysteria for seven days?

biscuit

ExitPursuedByABogieMan Thu 24-Oct-13 21:36:09

Thanks Justine. It is a fine line you tread.

MoominsYonisAreScary Thu 24-Oct-13 21:36:22

I still want to change my name to MoominsAreScaryFuckers

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 21:36:41

CreatureRetorts

The thing that I wonder is what do you do if there's a targeted attack against individual posters and others get away with being rude etc?

I have to say the whole thing is a bit confused

Well if you contact us with examples we will always look at it and obviously targeted attacks against individuals would break the guidelines.

TiggyD Thu 24-Oct-13 21:37:09

"we've had many valuable male Mumsnetters over the years."

That bit was about me you know! wink

trish5000 Thu 24-Oct-13 21:40:01

Seems a fair response to me. I too am aghast at the amount of reports concerning AF.

Is it possible that there will be more night cover? Is that on your agenda?

NoelHeadbandz Thu 24-Oct-13 21:40:21

I do totally understand why you've posted it, but well, you know sad

everlong Thu 24-Oct-13 21:40:34

Thanks for your explanation Justine.
Clears quite a lot up.

Pan Thu 24-Oct-13 21:40:37

yeah TiggyD - you were my first mental ref. for that too. So back steadily into your limelight.smile
btw I've recruited you as seamstress on the thread in Flouncers. You've got thousands of uniforms to prepare. Off you pop.

timidviper Thu 24-Oct-13 21:41:27

Thank you Justine. I think your explanation is measured and reasonable which is more than can be said for some of the posts yesterday. I've been on Mumsnet for years and yesterday was the first time ever I felt ashamed by the playground behaviour on it.

One of the things I have always loved about MN is the frank exchange of different views and the range of experiences and opinions shared. I have heard and learned about things I would never come across in my everyday life and have, on occasion, changed my viewpoint totally because of it. I find it very sad that grown women felt it appropriate to behave like that to try and force their opinion to prevail over all others, often without even a full knowledge of the facts.

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 21:41:38

I hope you asked AF first before posting about previous warnings etc.

I thought all that stuff was private.

ScreamingNaanAndGoryOn Thu 24-Oct-13 21:42:10

AF didn't want or orchestrate the shit storm about this. There's been no end of PAs against her all day with some massive axes being ground by at least two posters who have a historical problem with her. And now this?

Ow. Just ow.

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 21:42:26

ScreamingNaanAndGoryOn

If I was AF, after reading that I probably wouldn't want to come back.

I understand where you're coming from in wanting to defend HQ, but that's an official drubbing of a single poster.

I've not seen you do that before. I'm pretty sad that you have.

I see where you're coming from SN and if I'm honest it's not something we like doing at all but as said, it's been pretty exceptional circs here over the last 24 hours and some Mumsnetters have been very doubtful of our actions/motives etc so I think transparency is the only way to go in this case. I repeat that AF is a much valued poster by MNHQ and clearly by legions of other Mumsnetters, so very much hope she'll be back and posting soon and we can all move on!

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 21:43:37

trish5000

Seems a fair response to me. I too am aghast at the amount of reports concerning AF.

Is it possible that there will be more night cover? Is that on your agenda?

Yes it is, trish. Not quite sure exactly where we're at but Rowan will be...

Venushasrisen Thu 24-Oct-13 21:44:01

What's PAs?

Somehow this reminds me of playgroup committee meetings <<shudder>>

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 21:44:23

That doesn't look like you value her at all, and have frankly set her up to be goaded to death even if she did want to return.

BellaVita Thu 24-Oct-13 21:45:12

Personal attacks

Thanks Justine.

The facts and statistics speak for themselves really don't they.

And the "orthodoxy"on Relationships has been an issue for a very long time. Aggression, manipulation and downright bullying. Not great for a place that people turn to in their lowest moments.

FlaseFuckerSpider Thu 24-Oct-13 21:45:31

personal attacks

bsc Thu 24-Oct-13 21:45:38

Personal Attacks venus

5madthings Thu 24-Oct-13 21:45:43

Does AF know you have given this information out?

I thought these things were normally kept private and tbh I am very uncomfortable with this info, it's actually the kind of info that some posters would make a mental note of/c&p to use in a not nice way.

It doesn't seem necessary to go into that detail.

I think lots of posters know AF can 'bite' and I have seen her posts deleted etc, I think the concussion was that posters thought she had been banned, rather than suspension of posting.

Anyway its done now.

Thants Thu 24-Oct-13 21:45:44

Why do you outright ban other people with no warnings yet this person is given many warnings and only a temporary suspension for breaking the guidelines?

Annonynon Thu 24-Oct-13 21:45:55

in the most non-arsekissy way possible...

I think you're doing a fab job mnhq, I don't envy you the decisions you have to make but to me you always seem fair,balanced and reasonable

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 21:45:55

reelingintheyears

I hope you asked AF first before posting about previous warnings etc.

I thought all that stuff was private.

I think it's relevant though reeling and, as said, I don't see that we had a choice in the face of being called upon pretty vociferously to state our reasoning. If we don't explain our actions we get criticised and shouted at?

ubik Thu 24-Oct-13 21:46:00

I agree with that an 'orthodoxy' can build up in certain sections, making it difficult for other people to post a conflicting view.

Annonynon Thu 24-Oct-13 21:46:29

in the most non-arsekissy way possible...

I think you're doing a fab job mnhq, I don't envy you the decisions you have to make but to me you always seem fair,balanced and reasonable

ExitPursuedByABogieMan Thu 24-Oct-13 21:46:51

It is all just words on a screen.

Thisfuckerisaeuphemism Thu 24-Oct-13 21:46:57

Meh, I've seen Anyfucker attacked loads of times. What is the phrase 'Man-hater' if not a PA?

As for an orthodoxy on the relationship boards, I don't believe it's the case. I think there is a general ethos of 'you don't have to put up with twattish behaviour' which is at odds with the orthodoxy on relationships in wider society in general. It is only those who believe women should tolerate anything "for the sake of family" who seem to take offence at AF.

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 21:47:32

Annonynon

in the most non-arsekissy way possible...

I think you're doing a fab job mnhq, I don't envy you the decisions you have to make but to me you always seem fair,balanced and reasonable

You can say that as many times as you like Annon smile

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 21:47:45

Yes, explain your actions but at least have the courtesy to ask someone first before printing out their history.
Just basic manners.

5madthings Thu 24-Oct-13 21:47:49

And whilst I was typing that others have said the same..

AF is a good egg, abrasive, to the point, takes no crap and yes oversteps the mark at times, I don't think this needed to be aired so publically tho.

I think I'm not comfortable about various aspects.

I don't know how many reports get a deleted post
I don't know how many reports/deletions get a suspension
I don't know how many suspensions get a banning
I think I should know and somewhere I should be able to see that info.

I was surprised AF was the subject of a storm. I don't follow her I simply recognised the name and was curious what happened. I am rather non plussed by all the threads. She's a person. Not god. This mass hysteria is icky. I'm icked right out by the fawning and cliquey nature.

This stinks of schoolyard stuff and it's icky. It's not what I come for, wish to see. I just want to know that if I behaved similarly as a small time poster you would treat me the same. I'm now left wondering if there's tiers. I don't like that.

Talkinpeace Thu 24-Oct-13 21:49:08

Having been banned I can utterly assure all posters that AF will have been told why, when, where and for how long (the template email is quite clear)

in my case the grounds were surreal, but the process was utterly transparent

Moxiegirl Thu 24-Oct-13 21:49:19

Thanks for clarifying. And from the uproar I thought she'd been banned forever hmm

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 21:49:30

Thants

Why do you outright ban other people with no warnings yet this person is given many warnings and only a temporary suspension for breaking the guidelines?

We usually only outright ban trolls, Thants. Most posters get a warning. Posters with a long history of being helpful get a few more warnings than most.

BOF Thu 24-Oct-13 21:49:37

I'm sure we can take a collective deep breath and move on. I can say that now, because I'm sober...

Can I just apologise for any part I played in inflaming things by saying the ban was permanent? I didn't have the full facts at all, and was somewhat well-oiled.

I'm just looking forward to seeing her back.

ScreamingNaanAndGoryOn Thu 24-Oct-13 21:49:42

I suppose you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. I don't envy you, that's for sure.

But then I read posts like BunnyLebowski and wonder what its all for. That was a shitty comment Bunny.

The people who don't like her will carry on making comments like that and probably reporting her for any minor infraction.

There's a real person behind all of this crapola.

givemeaboost Thu 24-Oct-13 21:50:18

Good post, as I said last night, how long you have been on here (I myself have been here under various names almost since mn began!!) should bear no significance when being told off for breaking talk guidelines. AF should be well aware of the rules after all these yrs and stick to them as everyone else has to, no exceptions! good call mnhqsmile

MooncupGoddess Thu 24-Oct-13 21:50:18

Tbh MNHQ are in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation here; giving the full background to the episode risks accusations of being unkind/breaching AF's privacy, but not giving details allows posters to accuse them of being unfair in suspending her.

FlabbyAdams Thu 24-Oct-13 21:50:32

So after all the uproar last night AF was SUSPENDED and not banned?

Someone got their wires crossed by the sound of it and it spun a bit out of control.

People were baying for blood last night on some threads

Seems MHHQ are dammed if they do and Dammed if they dont.

From what I have read I think they have been fair, all they are doing on here is trying to put the record straight and explain things after the hysteria of last night.

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 21:53:23

reelingintheyears

Yes, explain your actions but at least have the courtesy to ask someone first before printing out their history.
Just basic manners.

It's not really their history is it? It's as much our history isn't it - where they've broken the rules and we've been compelled to moderate them. But I agree I heartily wish none of this were necessary. But sadly, I think it was in this case.

RandallFloyd Thu 24-Oct-13 21:53:35

It's a lose/lose Justine really isn't it. You're damned of you do and damned if you don't.

I think you're absolutely right that transparency was the only way after all the accusations flying around but on the other hand it's pretty much handed AF's arse out on a plate to her 'haterz'.

I think the webchat is a great idea. I'll miss it unfortunately (stupid work) but I'll look forward to catching up with it tomorrow

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 21:53:42

Exactly what Screaming said.

A real person who has done a lot of good.

MrsGeologist Thu 24-Oct-13 21:54:38

I see Bunny has swooped in and already proved the point that this will be used against her.

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 21:54:44

BOF

I'm sure we can take a collective deep breath and move on. I can say that now, because I'm sober...

Can I just apologise for any part I played in inflaming things by saying the ban was permanent? I didn't have the full facts at all, and was somewhat well-oiled.

I'm just looking forward to seeing her back.

Thanks for the explanation and apology, BOF. (Have to admit we were a bit baffled by your intervention!)

Sparklingbrook Thu 24-Oct-13 21:55:18

I think the info had to be included in JustineMN's explanation of what happened. It should stop any further speculation or accusations.

Nine emails sent being told to stick to the guidelines. So she was expecting it anyway.

ScreamingNaanAndGoryOn Thu 24-Oct-13 21:55:46

Bunny - stop being so unpleasant.

Cronies? Are you actually listening to yourself?

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 21:56:12

Yes Justine, shared history if you like, but you could have messaged her first.

Would you want to return from a suspension after all this?

AF didn't stir any of this.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 21:56:55

JustineMumsnet

trish5000

Seems a fair response to me. I too am aghast at the amount of reports concerning AF.

Is it possible that there will be more night cover? Is that on your agenda?

Yes it is, trish. Not quite sure exactly where we're at but Rowan will be...

<twitches>

We have some extremely kind volunteers lined up to do overnight modding - they won't have anything like full privileges, but will be able to delete and ban outright spammers and trolls.

We're just waiting for a bit of tech work to be done before we set it all in motion - and of course we realise it will take some bedding in, so we hope you'll all help us out (as ever) by telling us how you think it's working

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff Thu 24-Oct-13 21:57:21

Is this done with now? Couldn't believe how it kicked off tbh.

I have no opinion either way but I have never seen MN in that state before. It was surreal what was been said.

KingRollo Thu 24-Oct-13 21:57:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 21:57:51

Ouch - feel a bit dirty after reading that stuff. Should be private, I understand your reasoning MNHQ but still, ouch sad

ExcuseTypos Thu 24-Oct-13 21:57:54

I agree with whoever said those statistics will be used to goad AF for years to come.

I also think, if you are going to publish them for all to see, the full context should have been given. How many posts has AF posted altogether?
I assume it would be many, many thousands, in that context 185 deletions over x years, isn't as bad as it sounds.
And as you said Justine, you don't know how many of those deletions were for repeating someone else's rule breaking. So maybe they accounted for half of her deletions. Who knows?

The full facts or non at all should have been posted.

BIWI Thu 24-Oct-13 21:58:04

Oh FFS stop with the bullying accusations yet again

Pan Thu 24-Oct-13 21:58:08

I'd echo Anon tricky task that usually is done well, from the outside looking in - messy, fast-moving job. With the dexterity required for a wriggly nappy changer, iirc.
BOF - stuff happens unintendedly, and yes to looking fwd to the darling back.

BellaVita Thu 24-Oct-13 21:58:24

Boffy, you minx.

Glad to see it is only a temporary ban.

Awks Thu 24-Oct-13 21:58:57

Ouch.

ScreamingNaan Good job defining cronyism with your post.

Oh delicious irony.

ScreamingNaanAndGoryOn Thu 24-Oct-13 21:59:20

Its not like she found she was suspended / banned and then orchestrated a mass sit in with all of her 'cronies'. I think frankly there's surprise at the reaction on all sides here. <splats face on keyboard>

Justine - are you going to remove Bunny and Rollo's PAs against a poster who can't even come and defend herself?

RandallFloyd Thu 24-Oct-13 22:00:03

X-post x1 million!

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 22:00:23

Is that ^ ok? That KingRoll just called AF bossy and domineering?? Nice. And yes I have hit 'report'

Scarymuff Thu 24-Oct-13 22:01:05

I'm just confused over the CFD thread. As far as I could tell AF didn't make any attack. If what she said was considered an attack, then I have to report a heck of a lot more posters.

Was it really that thead? Because of all the posts I've seen from AF the ones on that thread were tame and, actually, supposed to be helpful. CFD was annoying/offending posters and AF suggested that she tone it down. So did I. So did garlic. But AF was the only one deleted. Why?

ScreamingNaanAndGoryOn Thu 24-Oct-13 22:01:06

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Sparklingbrook Thu 24-Oct-13 22:01:24

MNHQ were asked to explain themselves. Now they have done exactly that everyone is moaning and criticising. confused

PortoFiendo Thu 24-Oct-13 22:01:48

I think you are being very unfair to someone who only ever tried to do good. The site is full of boasters, goaders and trolls. Reporting doesn't work and troll hunting/online questioning is not allowed.

Lovely, genuine posters are subjected to complete twats posting shit on their threads. It has got worse recently. The feminists have been effectively driven off. You are punishing the wrong people.

givemeaboost Thu 24-Oct-13 22:01:54

If all of you were doubting mnhq actions and acting like there was some sort of conspiracy, how do you propose they tell you the facts?? message several hundred people individually!?!confused
posting it here for all to see in black and white is the only way to silence the doubters and clear up the facts. I strongly suspect mnhq would have messaged af to tell her this course of action.

She got warned 9 times and still carried on regardless as if the rules don't apply to her. biscuit

PedlarsSpanner Thu 24-Oct-13 22:01:59

Thankyou for the explanation Justine

Theworldisending Thu 24-Oct-13 22:02:26

I see that's calmed everything down then...

No I'm sorry, I'm usually v comfortable with the way this site is moderated but I think you've left this one poster wide opened to continued attacks by this reponse. I've reported at least three posts today which have outright accused her of bullying - which is surely a personal attack? - not heard anything back as yet but I appreciate it's been a busy day - and now a detailed assessment of how many times she's been banned and how many times people have reported her. Why do we need to know you've 1100 references in your system to her? Presumably some of those are perhaps from her reporting attacks on her?
She won't be able to set foot on the boards now without being reported by exactly the <<sits on hands>> contributors who have it in for her because she speaks plainly and from a feminist perspective.
This is not a good days work.

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 22:02:52

ExcuseTypos

I agree with whoever said those statistics will be used to goad AF for years to come.

I also think, if you are going to publish them for all to see, the full context should have been given. How many posts has AF posted altogether?
I assume it would be many, many thousands, in that context 185 deletions over x years, isn't as bad as it sounds.
And as you said Justine, you don't know how many of those deletions were for repeating someone else's rule breaking. So maybe they accounted for half of her deletions. Who knows?

The full facts or non at all should have been posted.

AF has posted 72,000 times - so yes, you're quite right that as a percentage, 185 reports is low.

But (as another piece of perspective), we have quite a few other posters who've posted a lot more, or around the same amount, but not been deleted anything like as much.

We're sorry not to be able to provide a full analysis tonight - our systems aren't really set up for this sort of thing and we thought it was more important to get some facts out there than to wait until we had a thorough stats analysis - although as Justine says, if there's a strong call for that we'll do it.

RhondaJean Thu 24-Oct-13 22:03:17

I think perhaps we all also need to respect anyfucker here - she's an intelligent woman, she knew what would happen if she kept going the way she was, and she made an informed choice to do so knowing the consequences.

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 22:03:20

Screaming at you grin

GuillotineLibertine73 Thu 24-Oct-13 22:03:38

It did feel a bit intrusive reading ADs rap sheet grin but does put it into perspective, have a feeling those stats could have tempered some of last night's hysteria.

PortoFiendo Thu 24-Oct-13 22:03:47

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

southeastdweller Thu 24-Oct-13 22:05:14

Thanks for the transparent and calm response. I'm 100% behind MNHQ on this.

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 24-Oct-13 22:05:26

Cheers HQ. It's a bit pants that it has come to this, but I can't see that there was anything else you could do. You are all so lovely and sensible. Hope RebeccaMN is ok after the vitriol sent her way last night.

So, thanks for the info. As you were.thlsmile

Hulababy Thu 24-Oct-13 22:05:49

How else could MNHQ justify their reasons without giving people such information? They didn't listen before when MN have been trying to explain but without the stats. It wasn't enough. So this is another way. Harsh I agree, but at least this way it is a bit more clear. But still people aren't happy...not sure MN can win either way tbh.

Maybe time to move on...

JaquelineHyde Thu 24-Oct-13 22:05:58

Thanks Justine, hopefully the ridiculous hysteria can end now.

Can I just ask that if over the next couple of months AF continues to break the guidelines can you please not suspend her or ban her until after Christmas as I really don't think my family would appreciate losing another one to an MN drama.

Thanks grin

LtAllHallowsEve Thu 24-Oct-13 22:05:58

ScreamingNaan - proper LOL at that grin

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:06:01

Please please please ... No auto suspend. This would be so open to abuse by people who just want to cause trouble for individuals they don't like.

JaquelineHyde Thu 24-Oct-13 22:06:24

Thanks Justine, hopefully the ridiculous hysteria can end now.

Can I just ask that if over the next couple of months AF continues to break the guidelines can you please not suspend her or ban her until after Christmas as I really don't think my family would appreciate losing another one to an MN drama.

Thanks grin

noblegiraffe Thu 24-Oct-13 22:07:17

There seems to be a lot of mistrust of MNHQ. When AF was banned people were immediately up in arms saying OMG a decent poster banned for responding to a troll. Then it turned out to be a week's suspension for far more problematic behaviour and everyone is ok.

Before that it was Penis Beaker and everyone up in arms that the OP had been exposed to the world while MNHQ tweeted her shame. Then it turned out that they had done their best to delete the OP's previous posts in the midst of major technical difficulties, and everyone was ok again.

MNHQ don't seem to be a bunch of arses, intent on doing nothing but sell us to advertisers. However, a lot of people seem to automatically believe the worst; instead of thinking 'that sounds a bit shitty, not like MN, maybe there's something I'm not getting'.

Why?

Buildingamystery Thu 24-Oct-13 22:07:32

72,000 posts??

TEErickOrTEEreat Thu 24-Oct-13 22:07:53

Thanks Justine. I can't be bothered to read the whingefest thread but I think you've gone above and beyond in the explanations. I would have told people to fuck off. But I don't run a website with millions of posters and tens of millions of monthly hits.

I also want to give public kudos to Rebecca who held her own, with her usual grace and aplomb, dealing with all of this. I would have lost my shit more than once last night.

AmberLeaf Thu 24-Oct-13 22:08:02

It does seem a bit much posting about a members history like that, but what else could MNHQ do after last nights brouhaha?

MNHQ didn't ask for this did they, it needn't have been 'public' knowledge at all.

ExcuseTypos Thu 24-Oct-13 22:08:14

Thank you Rowan for answering.

I still think, detailed analysis should have been quoted, or non at all.

At least you've now said how many times she has posted, so the deletions can be put into some context.

MacaYoniandCheese Thu 24-Oct-13 22:08:18

I'm liking the idea of a MN naughty-step though. Could we have a rotten tomato emoticon or a maybe some sort of dunce cap beside a poster's name?

PedlarsSpanner Thu 24-Oct-13 22:08:51

Yes indeed noble, I find this quite tricky to get head around.

tribpot Thu 24-Oct-13 22:09:14

It strikes me that the lack of information about the length of AF's ban played a significant part in the situation that occurred last night. Yet this rates barely a mention by MN.

WeleaseWodger Thu 24-Oct-13 22:09:58

Personally, I think what's left AF open to more aggressive attacks in the future is the number of threads about her ban and the aggression and demands of her supporters to treat her differently than other posters on those threads. It may have been well intended, but backfired spectacularly.

TheDoctrineOfAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:10:04

Justine, appreciate you updating us all on this, thanks.

The 'context' of the deletions I make to be 0.26% of her total posting. AKA bugger all if you want to look at in those terms.

Of ocurse my maths could be wrong. Probably is.

HardFacedCareeristBitchNigel Thu 24-Oct-13 22:10:36

Re name changing - would there be capability in your software to only allow posters with a certain number of posts (eg 150) and specified period of membership to name change ? And also limit it to a certain number of name changes per month/year

timidviper Thu 24-Oct-13 22:11:17

What is wrong with some of you people? You accuse MN of all sorts of hysterical conspiracies last night then, when they respond after all that baying for a response, you complain again!

If anyone has put AF in the position of having her dirty laundry aired in public it is those people who took part in last night's hysteria.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 22:11:20

tribpot

It strikes me that the lack of information about the length of AF's ban played a significant part in the situation that occurred last night. Yet this rates barely a mention by MN.

Yes, we should have been clearer about this last night and that's definitely been a 'learning' for us today...

bsc Thu 24-Oct-13 22:12:05

Nooo! Not fair HFCBN.

I am sure I have more than 72,000 posts, and have been deleted exactly twice!

Some people need to nc regularly, and never use it to cause trouble.

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff Thu 24-Oct-13 22:12:09

MN can't do right without doing wrong. People reacted strangely last night and wanted to know why AF had been banned. They find out why and still complain.

What more can MN do?!

I do not envy MNHQ at all

Sparklingbrook Thu 24-Oct-13 22:12:10

But shouldn't everyone be aiming for 0% deletions NL? Nobody wants to be deleted.

MmeLindor Thu 24-Oct-13 22:12:34

This is going to roll on and on, isn't it.

I don't think that it was unfair to give a bit of background. MNHQ have been accused of all sorts of nasty stuff over the past 24 hours and it has all got a bit out of hand.

We have to remember that even if a poster is deliberately inflammatory, they are often very clever in how they post and it can be tricky for MNHQ to prove.

I've obviously been on very different threads on Relationships, Bunny. When I posted looking for help some years ago, I wasn't told to LTB. I was given very good and insightful advice, by AF and many other posters.

BOF Thu 24-Oct-13 22:12:59

Is anybody else dying of curiosity to know their own post/deletion ratio now? We could send, say, a quarter bottle of gin each as a bribe?

SoupDragon Thu 24-Oct-13 22:13:21

It strikes me that the lack of information about the length of AF's ban played a significant part in the situation that occurred last night. Yet this rates barely a mention by MN.

Perhaps if AF or the OP announcing it had seen fit to say it was a week's suspension, none of this hysteria would have happened.

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff Thu 24-Oct-13 22:14:23

BOF I think mine would be pretty low. Then again I have only been hear 18 months

PacificFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:14:24

Thanks, Justine, for your OP.
I am glad that AF can/will be back after a short period of time.

2 points:

Somebody with strong opinions on a subject more likely to be emotive such as for instance, oh say, 'Relationships' is more likely to generate polarisation. So people posting a long, say, in the gardening section, even if prolific posters are far less likely to be controverstial. I think (disclaimer: I know little about gardening wink).

I like the idea as discussed in FWR of letting ALL posts stand (other than the illegal ones) flagged with a short comment from MNHQ to avoid things like rape myths or diabablist posts stand unopposed, but without feeding the troll/giving a derailer the satisfaction.

ScaryNutellaFangs Thu 24-Oct-13 22:14:26

I think that had HQ said on their first response that it was a suspension and was for a week then it would not have blown up the way it did.

The sweary thread which got deleted was being used to blow off some steam and then that got deleted with a very prim and proper "this is not in the spirit of the site" message, when it was a huge venting joke.

When you get that message knowing full well that they have been allowed in the past as jokes and were understood to be so is perhaps what incensed some into starting the 15 + other threads about it.

MmeLindor Thu 24-Oct-13 22:14:38

I also want to give public kudos to Rebecca who held her own, with her usual grace and aplomb, dealing with all of this. I would have lost my shit more than once last night

Yes, Tee. Absolutely agree.

bsc Thu 24-Oct-13 22:14:58

Ha, BOF! Maybe if we requested it under FOI?

Sparklingbrook Thu 24-Oct-13 22:15:10

How did everyone find out AF had been suspended in the first place? I am intrigued.

LtAllHallowsEve Thu 24-Oct-13 22:15:45

Oh yes BOF, that was my immediate first thought (it's all about ME!)

AmberLeaf Thu 24-Oct-13 22:15:51

Perhaps if AF or the OP announcing it had seen fit to say it was a weeks suspension, none of this hysteria would have happened

This.

JaquelineHyde Thu 24-Oct-13 22:15:57

I would love to know how many times I have posted over the last 8 years BOF. Don't need to ask about deletions though as I am practically an angel and don't get deleted grin

I've been deleted quite a few times. Never had an e-mail though. Tbh I know pretty much why in every case and I stand by what I will have said. It's up to HQ what they let stand on the threads but it's up to me to have opinions, to read and respond and argue my corner. If you've got 0 deletions I think you need to think a bit harder because debate and discussion will generate conflict as well as consensus if it's done right. Plenty of people will have posts deleted when they're defending others. I don't want 0% if that's what's at stake.

colleysmill Thu 24-Oct-13 22:16:01

72,000 posts is some going!

Will we all get an end of year report this year?

No. of posts
No. of posts reported
No. of deletions
No. of emoticons thingys used
No. Days attendance

Overall grade for behaviour grin

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 22:16:40

Can I just point out that the posters (inc me) saying it feels icky to read this 'personal' stuff, aren't necessarily the posters who accused MNHQ of any conspiracy. I certainly didn't, didn't even occur to me.

Therefore, you can't say, 'you demanded an explanation, now you have one you're moaning about that' because we're quite probably different people iyswim.

I think there were only 2 people who accused MNHQ of a conspiracy or lying and they're both on this thread.

RhondaJean Thu 24-Oct-13 22:16:44

I did say on the "pa for AF" thread before it got deleted that I didn't think it was something she would have been keen on.

I would have been very upset if she had been permanently banned but there was a level of insanity being reached last night that can only be explained by last weekends full moon!

I was trying to say as well, one of the things which is GOOD. About MN is that it feels like ours but at the end of the day it isn't, and the "collective" (which if you read any thread you will see doesn't actually exist) will at times disagree with decisions from MNHQ.

Also I do think rules need to be applied fairly to all, whether I like the results or not.

SoupDragon Thu 24-Oct-13 22:16:45

Is anybody else dying of curiosity to know their own post/deletion ratio now?

Over the 11 years I've been here, I would say my deletion % is vanishingly small.

Scarymuff Thu 24-Oct-13 22:17:01

MNHQ those figures mean jack shit unless you are going to put them into context. How many deletions out of how many posts? Full disclosure or no disclosure please.

Also, are you going to post stats for everyone you ban/suspend. If not, why not?

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 22:17:07

ScaryNutellaFangs

I think that had HQ said on their first response that it was a suspension and was for a week then it would not have blown up the way it did.

The sweary thread which got deleted was being used to blow off some steam and then that got deleted with a very prim and proper "this is not in the spirit of the site" message, when it was a huge venting joke.

When you get that message knowing full well that they have been allowed in the past as jokes and were understood to be so is perhaps what incensed some into starting the 15 + other threads about it.

Yes, in retrospect it wasn't a great move to delete that thread. We're sorry about that.

WallyBantersJunkBox Thu 24-Oct-13 22:17:15

Hope not Colley as I have been matching off for 8 months this year....smile

What like 0.26% Soupdragon?

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:17:34

Speaking from experience it's really shitty when admins/moderators type out your history of wrong doing in public for everyone to discuss when you're not around to take part in the discussion.

Is it some kind of punishment?

ScaryNutellaFangs Thu 24-Oct-13 22:17:36

BOF, I would also love to know and would deletions count of the whole thread was deleted?

WallyBantersJunkBox Thu 24-Oct-13 22:17:46

Sorry that was meant to be bunking off not matching off...confused

IamInvisisble Thu 24-Oct-13 22:17:48

Well Justine it seems you're wrong whatever you do!

You don't explain, that's wrong. You do explain people are uncomfortable.
You don't ban people so you've got favourites, you ban a well know poster and that's not fair!

I just hope you've got a massive bottle of gin!

Yakky Thu 24-Oct-13 22:18:03

Well it's not like she didn't have enough warnings.
There are rules in every walk of life and of some people can't manage to follow them, then they have to face the consequences.
And from what MNHQ have stated, it does sound like she pushed her luck on numerous occasions.

BOF Thu 24-Oct-13 22:18:09

And do we get a trip to Mumsnet Towers in the summer term if we've signed in every day? And a go on the Red Button? <hopeful>

ExitPursuedByABogieMan Thu 24-Oct-13 22:18:32

I have never been deleted.

<boring>

mrsWast Thu 24-Oct-13 22:18:32

i think some people need to step away from the internet and maybe go outside for a bit. i hear it's lovely at this time of year.

seriously though - talk about a storm in a teacup. damned if you do, damned if you don't. for all last nights screaming and frothing, including name changes, grand talk of strikes and all that jazz if HQ didn't immediately capitulate to what are, essentially, demands from a group of relative strangers on an internet message board used by the general public, now you have the information that undermines the excitement of a good old-fashioned conspiracy, people are STILL complaining.

blimey. that was quite the run-on sentence. to sum up: perspective. get some.

IamInvisisble Thu 24-Oct-13 22:18:34

*not ban, suspend!

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 22:19:01

Would be great if posts that weren't illegal weren't deleted, but had a comment by MNHQ on them as then history couldn't be rewritten after the event as it often is and everyone would know who said what.

NoelHeadbandz Thu 24-Oct-13 22:19:45

Can I just point out that the posters (inc me) saying it feels icky to read this 'personal' stuff, aren't necessarily the posters who accused MNHQ of any conspiracy. I certainly didn't, didn't even occur to me.

YY same here, I thought the posts last night by MNHQ were fair, and I posted to say as much

<lickarse>

WorraLiberty Thu 24-Oct-13 22:19:53

MN can't do right without doing wrong. People reacted strangely last night and wanted to know why AF had been banned. They find out why and still complain.

What more can MN do?!

I do not envy MNHQ at all

Exactly that ^^

MNHQ were repeatedly called liars last night by some posters and accused of covering their tracks etc..

They've posted the email they sent to AF and the stats and explanations regarding why she had to be suspended.

And still some people aren't happy?!

I also want to give public kudos to Rebecca who held her own, with her usual grace and aplomb, dealing with all of this. I would have lost my shit more than once last night

Agree with Tee, really felt for Rebacca last night, I hope shes been looked after today smile

SoupDragon Thu 24-Oct-13 22:20:14

What like 0.26% Soupdragon?

No, far far smaller. Far fewer than 185 deletions and probably far greater than 72000 posts in all.

Thisfuckerisaeuphemism Thu 24-Oct-13 22:20:29

The only time I get reported is when I report myself.

Report me, you bastards.

JaquelineHyde Thu 24-Oct-13 22:20:35

Can I just say this thread has made me break open my free chocolate Baileys miniture I was sent.

Fucking disgusting!

That is all.

Sparklysilversequins Thu 24-Oct-13 22:20:52

I think it's really crap to have given out all those details. Do you think she will come back now? Would you?

You've made her sound like an absolute twat, just to cover your own arses imo MN.

Gobbolinothewitchscat Thu 24-Oct-13 22:21:40

I think the transparency was required but MN were damnedif they did and damned if they didn't

At the end of the day, tis just an internet forum and posters who fundamentally disagree with how it is run can always find somewhere else to their liking - I must admit a morbid fascination at just how wound up things got

I see there will be some volunteer mods - whom I presume will be posters. Again, watching with interest. I used to post on ivillage years ago. They had volunteer mods or "community leaders". Oh dear. Car crash springs to mind. It made last night look positively restrained when it used to kick off

MNHQ - I would seriously consider employing
or engaging mods on the usual basis. Why do you need "volunteers"?

ZombieZing Thu 24-Oct-13 22:21:44

I just want to know who wins "most posted about" AF or Penis Beaker?

yes, that feels like a long time ago now, doesn't it.

BeyondAnyFuckingJoke Thu 24-Oct-13 22:21:55

Another one intrigued to know my "score" grin

Just want to add though, that i have had non-ltb advice on relationships too, it does exist!

givemeaboost Thu 24-Oct-13 22:22:13

lol I don't have any idea how many posts ive done over the years but ive never been reported or deleted/suspended! Everyone should try and toe the line for the greater good of the whole site, those that don't should be warned, those that CHOOSE to ignore the warning should then face the consequences. favouritism/popularity should not come into it. As others have said, if anyone's responsible for airing her laundry its the posters who started up all the silly threads last night, bringing her name to attention of people who'd never even heard of her before.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 22:22:18

PacificFucker

Thanks, Justine, for your OP.
I am glad that AF can/will be back after a short period of time.

2 points:

Somebody with strong opinions on a subject more likely to be emotive such as for instance, oh say, 'Relationships' is more likely to generate polarisation. So people posting a long, say, in the gardening section, even if prolific posters are far less likely to be controverstial. I think (disclaimer: I know little about gardening wink).

Actually you would be amazed (genuinely) by the things people get passionate about on here.

We completely agree that some threads and topics are more polarising than others - and we do try to take into account the amount of 'heat' being generated when we look at a thread or post.

But in the end, whatever the context, if people break Talk Guidelines and are reported, then we need to take action.

It's worth saying that there are some posters who have posted many tens of thousands of times, and who plainly hold very strong opinions on many things, but who manage to stick within Guidelines. We don't, tbh, agree that strong opinions need go hand-in-hand with personal attacks (or other Guideline-breaking posts).

All seems reasonable enough - but a bit slow, 24 hours after the main event?

Were you just waiting for us all to let off steam and calm down, or up all night writing AF's report, and composing the perfect well balanced, calm response? smile

Do sometimes wonder if there's anyone there reading the threads as they're written, or whether you're all up in MN towers drinking that legendary gin as we are grin wine

usualsuspect Thu 24-Oct-13 22:22:28

I think after this AF will be reported a whole lot more by posters who don't like her.

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:22:34

Fuck me i HATE that 'it's only the Internet' line trotted out by people on the internet who feel like it's ok for them to get worked up about people who are worked up and recommend that they 'go upside for a walk because it's nice out there' even though they are sat k. Their arses n their iPad on the sofa loving every second of the drama.

Sigh.

Mintyy Thu 24-Oct-13 22:22:52

I'm a big AnyFucker fan but I do think she is over-involved in Mumsnet. She is famous for her presence on Relationships. Is that always a good thing? She is just a common or garden casual poster like the rest of us. She has a job and family. Its not like she is using up all those thousands of posts to casually shoot the breeze about nonsense stuff that doesn't matter. She and I have had exchanges before about getting too embroiled in the sadness that is the mn relationships board.

I say all of this with utmost fondness for her, the old trout.

ExitPursuedByABogieMan Thu 24-Oct-13 22:22:57

Interested to know who the volunteer mods are.

garlicfucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:23:14

FWIW, Justine et al, I agree that auto-bans cause more trouble than they save. I also agree, though, that patterns of aggravating posting tend to go unnoticed. Along with some others on these threads, I will start reporting posters for this reason, regardless of specific post content. It'll then be up to you how, or whether, you follow it up.

With that in mind, I second/third the suggestion of a 'report poster' option on the report form.

Peace & love & all that smile

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff Thu 24-Oct-13 22:23:37

This is why I stick to Cliff pics and _chat with the odd stroll through AIBU

<Tip toeing in> but I dont like the sound of volunteer mods, power goes to peoples heads. <runs out>

WorraLiberty Thu 24-Oct-13 22:25:23

I think after this AF will be reported a whole lot more by posters who don't like her.

I agree

But to be fair if she isn't breaking the talk guidelines, it doesn't matter how many times she gets reported.

Sparklingbrook Thu 24-Oct-13 22:25:30

For people like me who have the Relationships topic hidden it was all very confusing.

IamInvisisble Thu 24-Oct-13 22:26:24

I don't like the sound of volunteer mods either onestep.

NoelHeadbandz Thu 24-Oct-13 22:27:01

Well yes I wasn't going to say anything but....yes, I AM one of the new volunteer mods

Open to bribes people, open to bribes

mrsWast Thu 24-Oct-13 22:27:22

thefabulousfuckingidiotfucker - if that was directed at me i hope i can put your mind at rest and reassure you that i am not worked up at all. again - a little perspective all round wouldn't go amiss.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 22:27:39

garlicfucker

FWIW, Justine et al, I agree that auto-bans cause more trouble than they save. I also agree, though, that patterns of aggravating posting tend to go unnoticed. Along with some others on these threads, I will start reporting posters for this reason, regardless of specific post content. It'll then be up to you how, or whether, you follow it up.

With that in mind, I second/third the suggestion of a 'report poster' option on the report form.

We'll think about the 'report poster' option - but loads of people do exactly that already, just by reporting a post but using the comment box to say 'er actually you need to have a look into this one, it's all a bit goady/inconsistent/rude' or whatever.

We spend lots of time looking into posters' entire or recent histories.

MarmaladeBatkins Thu 24-Oct-13 22:27:45

Oh lawks.

Honestly, I don't think that poor old AF can come back from this. Maybe if she'd been suspended and it had all gone off quietly, she could have come back next week like nowt had ever happened (as often DOES happen with suspended posters)

But with the million threads which contain some vile personal attacks on AF and this disclosing of AF's disciplinaries with MNHQ, I don't think she'll want to come back. For one, any time she posts in her inimitable style she'll be shouted down by her adversaries, using her 'reported' history as ammunition.

I'm not slating Justine for disclosing the information, I can see that she was backed into a corner and needed to illustrate a few points. I'm just saying that this whole thing spiralled way out of control and out of the well-meaningfulness of lots of us posting in support, we may have made it harder for AF to return.

<offers crisps to thread>

DownstairsMixUp Thu 24-Oct-13 22:27:47

I think MNHQ have responded well to be honest, I am pleased, will be quite interested in the web chat to.

WorraLiberty Thu 24-Oct-13 22:27:51

Yes, why wouldn't MNHQ pay mods?

Especially if they're going to sit up all night to help them out?

gamerchick Thu 24-Oct-13 22:27:55

Man I've never seen full transparency from an admin in all my years of forums.. hats off. Knew you'd still get earache.

If AF had said it was a suspension instead of a ban I doubt any of this would have happened. But it's done now.

Hopefully it's the end of it!

PacificFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:27:56

Oh, I know about passionate debating - I am too scared to be on Good Housekeeping much grin.

Honestly, you lot, give MNHQ a break. It's their site, their rules - they have explained, apologised for some things and stand by others.
Fairenuff IMO.

<pours [gin] all round>

Gobbolinothewitchscat Thu 24-Oct-13 22:28:06

usual - but even if AF is reported much more, can't we trust MNHQ to disregard any spurious reports?

Maybe there could be sanctions against posters who clearly repeatedly vexatious report other posters

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff Thu 24-Oct-13 22:28:25

Noel Depends what your powers arw

Scarymuff Thu 24-Oct-13 22:28:26

If a poster wanted to get a point across so made a personal attack citing how many times another person had had a message deleted, they would be breaking the guidelines.

Just sayin'

morethanpotatoprints Thu 24-Oct-13 22:28:30

If dunce caps are handed round, I will leave, thats not good.
Rotten tomato and sin bin brilliant ideas.
Maybe when AF comes back because she gives good advice and is well liked as her friends we can perhaps warn her a bit if she seems to be going a bit too far.

Rewindtimeplease Thu 24-Oct-13 22:28:37

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:28:56

Did the vollunteer mods take it upon themselves to vollunteer? Are there really people out there who offer themselves to mumsnet in a 'by the way if you are ever looking for someone to be a moderator I'm your woman' kind of way?

Blimey.

What makes them thnk they would be an good at it?
What if they get all arsey!
How do you know they are 'right' for the job?

Scary.

usualsuspect Thu 24-Oct-13 22:28:59

I know that Worra, just makes me feel uncomfortable for her.

how would you feel if every time you posted there were a load of Haterz just waiting to press the report button.

I wouldn't come back if I was her.

PacificFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:29:15

And yes, I would love to know my stats

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 22:29:15

NoelHeadbandz

Well yes I wasn't going to say anything but....yes, I AM one of the new volunteer mods

Open to bribes people, open to bribes

<scrabbles through list>

As with our other innovations, this may work brilliantly or it may not work at all. We're going to suck it and see because we don't like to see our overnight MNers having to suck up mountains of spam/horrible abusive posts overnight. But if it turns out to really not work, we'll scrap it and try something else.

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff Thu 24-Oct-13 22:29:31

Dont MNHQ read the posts before deleting? I couldn't report say worras post now and expect it to be deleted as there is no reason?

Or could I?

Gobbolinothewitchscat Thu 24-Oct-13 22:29:44

usual - but even if AF is reported much more, can't we trust MNHQ to disregard any spurious reports?

Maybe there could be sanctions against posters who clearly repeatedly vexatious report other posters

passedgo Thu 24-Oct-13 22:29:45

Hmm I think statistics are a bit misleading here. The reason AF is statistically more likely to be reported is because she has to fight this way.. She's the bouncer at the gate, the bodyguard, the bull terrier that sees past the manipulative wordy goaders and bullies, whether in real life or on here. Of course she's going to get reported more.

If we didn't have people like her bringing perspective, mn would be in lala land.

MmeLindor Thu 24-Oct-13 22:29:51

After this, I would imagine the volunteer mods have withdrawn their offer.

Yakky Thu 24-Oct-13 22:30:04

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reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 22:30:32

Volunteer mods?

Wasn't AF 's name put forward for head of that department?

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 22:31:10

I love mnhq

ps - please delete the thread about AF from the baby names forum! it gives me THE RAGE!

eightytwenty Thu 24-Oct-13 22:31:17

Strikes me that it's been a great big fat fuss over very little.

AmberLeaf Thu 24-Oct-13 22:32:48

Volunteer mods? hmm.

Can quickly go to shit IME.

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 22:32:58

passedgo

that's just so ott confused
there are plenty of people who give great advice and challenge opposing opinion without pa

usualsuspect Thu 24-Oct-13 22:33:24

Other MNETTERS as volunteer mods?

I'm not liking the sound of that.

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:33:30

Who will moderate the vollunteer mods?

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:34:24

I can't funkin spell

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 22:34:43

A licence to kill is volunteer mods.

WorraLiberty Thu 24-Oct-13 22:34:48

As with our other innovations, this may work brilliantly or it may not work at all. We're going to suck it and see because we don't like to see our overnight MNers having to suck up mountains of spam/horrible abusive posts overnight. But if it turns out to really not work, we'll scrap it and try something else.

But surely MNHQ can afford to pay people to mod during the night?

You know, people who are unconnected to the site and would therefore remain totally neutral?

I'm not saying the volunteers chosen wouldn't be neutral btw, but you can bet there will be some accusations of cliques etc.

usualsuspect Thu 24-Oct-13 22:34:50

Who are the new mods then?

And how did you pick them?

BeyondAnyFuckingJoke Thu 24-Oct-13 22:34:57

I'd like to volunteer for volunteer mod moderator grin

AmberLeaf Thu 24-Oct-13 22:35:05

Yes, I am hmm-ing at the idea of MNers being volunteer mods. If that is the case then hmm indeed.

MarmaladeBatkins Thu 24-Oct-13 22:35:15

Look, how many years has AF been on MN?! Let's say 8 years.

If you divide the number of reports by years she has been here, the percentage is small. You forget warnings that you had 12 months ago (voice of experience) Plus, just because she has had 100+ reports levelled at her, doesn't mean that all of them resulted in deletion. That is misleading, for one thing. People report for the most weak of things. People get deleted for the most weak of things! It's all a bit weird anyway, using that as a stick to beat her with.

bsc Thu 24-Oct-13 22:35:45

Power does not always go to people's heads- there are HQ-type folk that were once pretty prolific posters, I don't they've been accused of being non-even-handed hmm

Some MNers do actually manage to stay fairly detached, and level-headed most of the time.

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 22:35:52

they will obviously be experienced and reasonable posters people

they arent handing MN to trolls confused hmm hmm

wtf do you want them to do at shirt notice?

drama drama drama

ExitPursuedByABogieMan Thu 24-Oct-13 22:36:24

Come on mods. Out yourselves. We need to know when we have spies in our midst.

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 22:36:26

MNHQ - Why volunteer mods as opposed to paid ones?

SwedishEdith Thu 24-Oct-13 22:36:55

Thanks Justine. I can't be bothered to read the whingefest thread but I think you've gone above and beyond in the explanations. I would have told people to fuck off

ha ha ha at the idea of every Justine repsonse being "Fuck off" grin

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 22:36:55

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker

Who will moderate the vollunteer mods?

We're going to be keeping a close eye on what they do.

They will have no access at all to other posters' data (including namechange details and things like that).

They will have two buttons - 'delete' and 'ban'. And strict instructions to use them only for very obvious spam and really vile abusive posts (rape jokes and things like that - which sadly we do sometimes get a bit of overnight.)

We'll review what they do, and if we think someone is over-stepping the mark (although obviously we have no reason at all to think our generous volunteers would do that) we'll take action.

MmeLindor Thu 24-Oct-13 22:36:58

72000 posts over a long period of time. And a post can be

'I agree'

or 'Yes'.

AF is quite pithy.

I don't think it is fair to make comments about how many posts she has made, or insinuate that she neglects her family.

Not counting my posts. No. No.

BeyondAnyFuckingJoke Thu 24-Oct-13 22:37:49

72000 posts over 8 years is 25 posts a day...

WorraLiberty Thu 24-Oct-13 22:38:23

I'm not sure why we've been invade by little yellow faces for asking questions about the volunteer mods and why they're not being paid?

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Thu 24-Oct-13 22:38:29

Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there.

I don't know much about this issue or about AnyFucker but as a regular lurker and occasional poster in Relationships I cannot emphasise enough how much I disagree

The Relationships thread has helped so many people who are at their lowest in life, it has clarified issues for so many and mobilised many vulnerable women to take action to help themselves and their children. I've never been an OP there, but the advice, reading and stories there have clarified things and helped me personally.

There is no orthodoxy on Relationships - many people post there and many disagreements and debates are had there. This would not be the case in an 'orthodoxy'

MarmaladeBatkins Thu 24-Oct-13 22:38:30

Totally agree, Lindor.

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 22:38:33

usual ffs hq have said they will try it out, the volunteers wont have full powers and if it doesn't work they will scrap it

why the demanding dramatics?

MmeLindor Thu 24-Oct-13 22:38:38

Worra
A lot of MNHQlers started as posters on the site, I think. I don't think it is a leap to have some volunteer mods and they will all be scared of Rebecca and Rowan anyway

But where did the volunteers come from? Was it advetised, or did you approach certain posters? confused

bsc Thu 24-Oct-13 22:39:04

25 posts a day not actually that many <gibbers>

Yakky Thu 24-Oct-13 22:39:08

I don't see anything wrong with volunteers as moderators.
I mean it works for the Samaritans, doesn't it?

Buildingamystery Thu 24-Oct-13 22:39:22

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TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:39:34

Ah, so the volunteer mods aren't a response to the whole AF issue.

oh no ive made a yellow face, im nosy smile

kiriwAnyFuckerwa Thu 24-Oct-13 22:40:07

One post by AF is worth 10 by most posters IMO. A board of drivel is a board no one is interested in.

I'm waiting for the hun overlord

usualsuspect Thu 24-Oct-13 22:40:29

Notyomomma, please tell me they haven't picked you to be a mod.

bsc Thu 24-Oct-13 22:40:30

No- has been mooted many times before FFIF

ExitPursuedByABogieMan Thu 24-Oct-13 22:40:36

So these overnight mods? Are they I'm foreign parts?

<licks pencil>

NaturalBaby Thu 24-Oct-13 22:40:56

I'm assuming MNHQ have read this little gem from youretoastmildred on another thread, and added it to the moderator's job descriptions:
"moderate with extreme subtlety and nuance by people who know what they fuck they are doing, with very sophisticated political and gender-relations nous."

ExitPursuedByABogieMan Thu 24-Oct-13 22:41:08

I'm? In. Ffs

Gobbolinothewitchscat Thu 24-Oct-13 22:41:37

As with our other innovations, this may work brilliantly or it may not work at all

I will be very interested to see what measures will be put in place which would make it work rather than be the comete disaster I've witnessed before

Also, unfortunately, it would seem that the recruitment and appointment process has been rather, er, opaque. Which kind of undermines the transparency ethos point which Justinead earlier

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 22:41:39

cos no one ever volunteered to help a forum or website or project or anything they loved to be part of and wanted to help out?

people volunteer online a lot, be it admins on fb pages ect etc

all this faux outrage is quite odd

lougle Thu 24-Oct-13 22:41:39

The statistics can't be used as an absolute. You can't possibly know from what Justine has posted, whether the deletions represent 185 deletions in 2 weeks, with an unchequered past, or 185 deletions spread over her whole posting time,etc.

The fact remains that if MNHQ asked AF to refrain from breaking the rules, she continued to break the rules and she acknowledges that she saw it coming - fair play.

I got deleted once and I felt it was quite unjust. I felt the other poster had been goady and pushed me to that point. I had a very civil discussion with MNHQ about it and my bottom line was 'well if it were Lougle Towers, I'd have done it differently, but it's MN Towers, so all I can do is stamp my feet and yell that it's not fair.'

MNHQ didn't do this. AF didn't even do this. What did this was a one week suspension with plenty of prior warning being whipped up into an outright ban with no warning.

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 22:41:57

This thread should be closed down now.

Justine has said her bit, AF isn't here to defend herself.

It's all a lot icky.

NoFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:42:01

Well I don't nominate me! The joy of getting moaned at whilst failing in trying to sugarcoat the phrase "oh do fuck off". I'd be cheap on many levels....

usualsuspect Thu 24-Oct-13 22:42:29

I'm just interested as to how they chose the mods.

I never saw a thread about it.

Is that ok Notyomomma?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 24-Oct-13 22:42:43

Yup. Perhaps if the poster who had been in contact with AF and kicked the whole thing off last night had chosen to start her thread AF suspended for 7 days, rather than AF banned this whole debacle could have been avoided.

imofftolisdoonvarna Thu 24-Oct-13 22:43:06

Haha! People were screaming last night 'explain yourselves mnhq, we need to know EXACTLY why AF was banned'.

So mnhq do that and explain EXACTLY why she was banned, complete with stats, and now people are moaning that they just didn't need to know that sort of information. What a load of shit.

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:43:19

Sounds like the volunteer mods won't even be allowed to ban the goady fuckers.

BeyondAnyFuckingJoke Thu 24-Oct-13 22:43:22

Trying to work out how often a post would have been deleted, but its too late and my brain is disagreeing with the concept!

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 22:44:22

im not a mod no, because I am bnot an appropriate candidate lol.

I am to opinionated and argumentative

but why not give them a chance before crying failure or conspiracy?

SnakeyMcBadass Thu 24-Oct-13 22:44:34

I won't volunteer to be a mod. For one, I like to be in bed by 11, and for another, the power would go to my head and I'd end up invading Scotland or something. Best not.

Theworldisending Thu 24-Oct-13 22:45:06

'she has to fight this way.. She's the bouncer at the gate, the bodyguard, the bull terrier that sees past the manipulative wordy goaders and bullies, whether in real life or on here.'

And she will have her vengeance in this website or the next.

BOF Thu 24-Oct-13 22:45:15

Can we stop making unfair/unfounded/subjective comments about somebody not here to defend herself, please? It's fair enough to say how helpful she has been, as few could argue and it's not an unpleasant thing to hear about yourself, but it's more than a bit out of order to aim criticism and derogatory remarks at a person who has no right of reply at the moment.

Not in the spirit of the site and all that.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 22:45:15

TondelayoSchwarzkopf

*Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there.*

I don't know much about this issue or about AnyFucker but as a regular lurker and occasional poster in Relationships I cannot emphasise enough how much I disagree

The Relationships thread has helped so many people who are at their lowest in life, it has clarified issues for so many and mobilised many vulnerable women to take action to help themselves and their children. I've never been an OP there, but the advice, reading and stories there have clarified things and helped me personally.

There is no orthodoxy on Relationships - many people post there and many disagreements and debates are had there. This would not be the case in an 'orthodoxy'

We know that the Relationships board is hugely valued in what it does, and we don't doubt that it helps lots of people - we know that it does.

But we also get many reports and off-board messages saying that people feel they can't post in there because they will be shouted down for not following what they think is the party line.

This isn't only a problem in Relationships - we've had problems like this on other boards before, and no doubt we'll have problems like this on other boards in the future. But from what we've seen, some posters definitely think that there is a problem. And we're not talkig about people who are reporting to cause trouble; we're talking about 'genuine' MNers who feel reluctant to post.

imofftolisdoonvarna Thu 24-Oct-13 22:45:16

One post by AF is worth 10 by most posters IMO. A board of drivel is a board no one is interested in.

hmm

Mintyy Thu 24-Oct-13 22:45:20

"But where did the volunteers come from? Was it advetised, or did you approach certain posters? confused "

Agreed. All ears.

AmberLeaf Thu 24-Oct-13 22:45:39

Notyomomma I think lots of people here have experience of forums where posters get mod status and have seen what can happen. Maybe you haven't seen that?

I have and it isn't pretty.

Pan Thu 24-Oct-13 22:45:43

According to Rowan, the 'ban' choice is one for the volunteer mods. That seems explicit. IT would hasten the banishing of the GFs, prob.

Scarymuff Thu 24-Oct-13 22:46:08

Are we still allowed to say ODFOD? Because that's a personal attack surely? I'm confused now. MNHQ haven't answered any of my questions.

IamInvisisble Thu 24-Oct-13 22:46:38

I'd quite like to know how they chose the mods too.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 22:47:19

usualsuspect

I'm just interested as to how they chose the mods.

I never saw a thread about it.

Is that ok Notyomomma?

yy there was a thread usual. We'll try to dig it out

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 22:47:38

BOF

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 22:48:01

I have but these volunteers will not have full access and will be working with hq at night, not just left to run rampant

I am on a lot of forums and this is not perfect but is generally fair and well run.

they have said they will scrap it if it doesnt work.

pkease dont make out I am somewhat new to the internet or naive

gamerchick Thu 24-Oct-13 22:48:32

A ban button?

An edit button.. A hide post or soft delete is really all is needed unless there is a lot of spam during the night.

Volunteers usually work well imo. You get the odd bad apple.. If It doesn't work then it doesn't work.

Regular posters make good mods as they are posters and don't need to rely on reports for the general feel of the place.

Facebaffle Thu 24-Oct-13 22:48:34

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BettyBotter Thu 24-Oct-13 22:48:45

Thanks Justine.

I love AF's forthrightness. I love that on this site she can be called AF and I posted last night because I was genuinely concerned that an apparently permanent ban on AF was part of a MN commercialising and dumbing down drive. But I think the line taken here by MNHQ has shown a fair bit of wisdom, diplomacy and honesty.

Phew. MN is still MN.

Am now a bit sheepish that I was so easily whipped into righteous indignation

usualsuspect Thu 24-Oct-13 22:49:32

Did you just approach posters you thought were all sensible?

Or did you put all our names in a big hat?

MarmaladeBatkins Thu 24-Oct-13 22:49:42

I got a PM from MNHQ begging me to be a mod. I turned them down because I found out that they wouldn't pay me in gin and being allowed to sit next to Rowan.

They were devastated but I'm sure they'll recover.

ClayDavis Thu 24-Oct-13 22:50:06

Usual I think there was a thread asking for volunteers a few months ago. Or at least asking for people to get in touch if they were interested in volunteering.

It could work if the mods remain anonymous. The times I've seen it go badly wrong are where the volunteers post under their usual posting nane with some sort of identifier e.g. mod or different font colour.

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 22:50:38

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DioneTheDiabolist Thu 24-Oct-13 22:50:38

Northern, it really is possible to post passionately and within the very few guidelines we have here you know.thlhmm

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:50:52

It would only hasten the banning of the GFs if they make personal attacks or obviously troll. They don't get banned now so why would volunteer mods following the same guidelines make a difference to GFs. They would just be there for spam. Boring and a bit useless.

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff Thu 24-Oct-13 22:51:25

Usual They cant approach the sensible ones as I didn't get a PM

I got deleted once and felt quite pleased lougle
- like an initiation into Mumsnet grin

- Sometimes I can't quite help saying there's a hairy fecker lurking under that bridge over there - I just like a good fairy story - it's the Nursery Teacher in me smile

If I became a mod I could just zap them couldn't I ?
Mwahaha grin
(But only in the dead of night it would seem ?! - actually do not fear I'm too much of a technophobe to apply for extra button pressing powers grin)

ButThereAgain Thu 24-Oct-13 22:51:34

Good lord passedgo! If I was anyfucker it would be unrealistic over-praise like that, plus the whole of this over-the-top response to her suspension which would keep me from returning, rather than embarrassment at the revelation of deletion statistics that MNHQ have been forced to make in response to all this clamour. Whoever made the comparison with the weirdness about Princess Diana after she died had it about right. This whole thing is completely extraordinary.

usualsuspect Thu 24-Oct-13 22:52:12

I'd like to know who there are tbh.

I don't want spies walking amongst us

<paranoid>

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 22:52:14

There was a thread! <shrieks>

I just can't seem to find the right Gmail search term to unearth it right now

But there was definitely a thread, we didn't just stick pins into our user record

MarmaladeBatkins Thu 24-Oct-13 22:53:10

"I suppose we're going to have Anyfucker thread overload next week when she returns and everyone will be fawning over her."

Fawning? Or welcoming back a valued member of the boards?

Fawning is an accusation thrown about by the jealous.

MarmaladeBatkins Thu 24-Oct-13 22:53:38

"There was a thread! <shrieks>

I just can't seem to find the right Gmail search term to unearth it right now

But there was definitely a thread, we didn't just stick pins into our user record"

Chinny reckon.

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 22:53:40

Rowan...

have you deleted the AF baby name thread yet wink pllleeeaasssseeee

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 22:54:20

MarmaladeBatkins

I got a PM from MNHQ begging me to be a mod. I turned them down because I found out that they wouldn't pay me in gin and being allowed to sit next to Rowan.

They were devastated but I'm sure they'll recover.

SandyMumsnet is the desk buddy you want - she has the brownies.

MilllyMollyMully Thu 24-Oct-13 22:54:53

I think MNHQ being transparent is great.

Re volunteer mods: I can see you're saying that they will have limited powers (mwahahahaha) but could you just reassure us that they will not be able to join all the dots which make up our personal lives and those of our families? Ie, our RL identities?

And if you ever need to raise funds, I should think you could have some kind of auction for people to find out how many posts they have made in their MN lifetime shock and how many emoticons they have used. thlsmile

trish5000 Thu 24-Oct-13 22:55:02

I think AF was trying to rescue people. But some of them didnt need rescuing, justing helping along the way. I think she may have overinvested because of her own childhood which she did talk about on one thread that I saw.

I hope her immediate family is supporting her through this.

Quite understand why mumsnet had to do what it did though. We as posters are never fully aware of all the facts, even if we think we are.

ButThereAgain Thu 24-Oct-13 22:55:06

Agree DioneTheDiabolist. It seems a bit strange and unhelpful to make deletions a point of honour and take them as proof that you have engaged passionately. It is easy to be passionate without making personal attacks.

CarpeVinum Thu 24-Oct-13 22:55:06

I don't think it is fair to make comments about how many posts she has made, or insinuate that she neglects her family.

Seconded.

I have a low post count. Unfortunatly they tend to be several thousand words long, and I exit from a thread (after making a grand total of ten whole posts) pale, sleep deprived and twitchy and resist the urge to go for number 11 becuase my husband is jumping up and down saying "enuff dis terrible Mammasnet, you no eat, you no sleep, you is da OBSESSED!"

Number of posts isn't necessarily a brillant basis for drawing conclusions about people's neglectfulness. If we had sparkly tickers with our post count under our user names I'd look like an angel and you'd never guess that my family was sometimes reduced to sticking needles in a Mumsnet logo wishing its servers in Hades.

I reckon most people can make fifty pithy to the point posts in the time it takes me to just spell check a single one of mine waffly whoppers.

imofftolisdoonvarna Thu 24-Oct-13 22:55:33

'she has to fight this way.. She's the bouncer at the gate, the bodyguard, the bull terrier that sees past the manipulative wordy goaders and bullies, whether in real life or on here.'

And she will have her vengeance in this website or the next.

grin

bsc Thu 24-Oct-13 22:55:36

usual- MNHQ have always walked invisibly amongst us.
I don't think they've ever made a secret of that.

Altinkum Thu 24-Oct-13 22:55:47

Damned of you do, damned if you don't!!!

You all asked MN to explain themselfs, they did, you don't like the replies, they explained themselves further and they were still damned, try then done a thread explaining why they took the measures, and not some of you are bleating on about personal info etc... Have any of tu actually listened to yourself, it's bloody pathetic!

She broke the rules, she got suspended! And rightly so!

Personal info hasn't been given out, nothing's personal on the net, Justine owns this site, I'm sure she's fully aware of the legalities about how her site works!

Honestly here I thought this was a site full of adults all I see his some resentful and bored children stamping their feet.

I also think MN are fab and believe that they are trying their best and trying to be fair to everyone, yes she's a valuable poster, we all are, but no one is exempt from the rules!

BIWI Thu 24-Oct-13 22:55:53

You don't want to sit next to Rowan. She has terrible BO. <nods sagely>

VivaLeFUCKER Thu 24-Oct-13 22:56:29

I want a school report.

MilllyMollyMully Thu 24-Oct-13 22:56:35

Sorry, late to the party. I'll get me coat.

ScaryNutellaFangs Thu 24-Oct-13 22:56:50

Fawning?

Welcoming I should say.

If you want to be welcomed back with the warmth that plenty of posters have for AF, then maybe provide the level of support she does to posters in need of her advice.

That is what has become apparent in the whole show- she has helped an awful lot of women get themselves and their children out of damaging situations with her straight no bullshit attitude.

usualsuspect Thu 24-Oct-13 22:58:02

I'm happy for MNHQ to walk amongst us.

What if I piss an invisible mod off in the day
They might zap me at night grin

member Thu 24-Oct-13 22:58:22

To avoid speculation which may be erroneous, couldn't MNHQ put a "banned" or "suspended until date" next to the poster's name so it shows up on any thread they've posted on?

There were a number of other posters named as being banned last night during last night's shenanigans & it's unclear whether that's the case or, they have merely stopped posting/namechanged.

ScaryNutellaFangs Thu 24-Oct-13 22:58:28

BIWI- someone on another thread suggested Rowan was a man

NoelHeadbandz Thu 24-Oct-13 22:58:38

Carpe are you married to the Dolmio man grin

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 22:58:42

MilllyMollyMully

I think MNHQ being transparent is great.

Re volunteer mods: I can see you're saying that they will have limited powers (mwahahahaha) but could you just reassure us that they will not be able to join all the dots which make up our personal lives and those of our families? Ie, our RL identities?

And if you ever need to raise funds, I should think you could have some kind of auction for people to find out how many posts they have made in their MN lifetime shock and how many emoticons they have used. thlsmile

They won't be able to see any of a user's data at all. Nothing. Nada. They will be seeing MN exactly the same way everyone else <except US mwahahahaha> see it, but with added 'ban' and 'delete' buttons.

We reckon you might be right about the auctions though

givemeaboost Thu 24-Oct-13 22:58:43

hmm. I don't remember any thread and im on here every day and am a panel member, so even when I occasionally miss threads they usually end up in my emailconfused or are you on about the local mumsnet volunteer mods thread mnhq, as that's the only one I can recall.

SecretWitch Thu 24-Oct-13 22:59:06

I have just reported a thread about AF. Slagging a poster not able to defend herself is not cool.

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:59:13

Please can you at least make sure the volunteer mods can spell?

MarmaladeBatkins Thu 24-Oct-13 22:59:59

But Rowan is blates a gin quaffer. That's my kind of gal. OR GUY??? Tis a unisexual name innit?

I am looking forward to fawning over AF. When we get fed up of fawning over her, we can taupe all over her too.

LEMisafucker Thu 24-Oct-13 23:00:19

Thanks for the explanation justine - appreciated.

garlicfucker Thu 24-Oct-13 23:00:28

"enuff dis terrible Mammasnet, you no eat, you no sleep, you is da OBSESSED!"

grin grin grin

I hope your DH is okay with the knowledge he's going to be yelling virtually down my earhole the next time I notice it's 4am and I'm still posting!

Scary - YYY

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 23:00:28

ScaryNutellaFangs

BIWI- someone on another thread suggested Rowan was a man

This terrible calumny keeps getting rolled out and I will fight against it until the day I die. (Maybe)

<scowls at BIWI>

lougle Thu 24-Oct-13 23:00:58

Hmm...are you sure there was a thread, Rowan? I've used google to do a site specific search and there is nothing coming up about moderation volunteers from MNHQ.

Sparklingbrook Thu 24-Oct-13 23:01:02

This site gives a few posting figures but i have never fully understood it.

imofftolisdoonvarna Thu 24-Oct-13 23:01:06

Wait, Rowan isn't a bloke?

NoelHeadbandz Thu 24-Oct-13 23:01:06

Don't worry- when I'm modding, I'm not going to go around banning people willy-nilly.

I'm just going to zap the four nobbers that really get on my nerves, then I'm going to sit back and just do the genuine troll ones

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 23:01:15

ScaryNutellaFangs

You put it much better than I did.smile

Scarymuff Thu 24-Oct-13 23:01:47

I'm going to be reporting a lot more posts I think. Usually I just ignore shit but if people are having it held against them, I might as well contribute to the count.

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 23:02:12

Noel - who are they? ;p

MmeLindor Thu 24-Oct-13 23:02:36

God, I wouldn't want to be a mod.

They'd have to pay me in more than gin.

I'd lose the plot and go on a Tee-rampage shouting FUCK OFF to all and sundry

bsc Thu 24-Oct-13 23:02:38

Tis the height, Rowan! <nods sagely>

PacificFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 23:03:00

Oh no, have we now moved on the The Backlash? sadshock[predictable]

Mintyy Thu 24-Oct-13 23:03:01

I think this volunteer mods thing is much bigger news than the AF ban. Are you sure you aren't trying to hide the announcement on a bad news day?

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 23:03:13

lougle

Hmm...are you sure there was a thread, Rowan? I've used google to do a site specific search and there is nothing coming up about moderation volunteers from MNHQ.

I really am almost 100% sure there was, although you're making me doubt myself now.

We will find it for you tomorrow when people with higher IQs than me are around

NoelHeadbandz Thu 24-Oct-13 23:03:23

I couldn't possibly say NotYo

<discreet and fair>

passedgo Thu 24-Oct-13 23:03:31

Anyway, reading between the lines there have been dozens of reports and we don't yet know exactly who from. There has been troll-hunting but that actually isn't an issue. Mnhq also say the reports include complaints that we have an 'orthodox' attitude on relationships, i.e. someone doesn't think it's fair that AF says LTB. We also have a mention about being unwelcoming to men as it could 'possibly be illegal'.

I just hope we get to the bottom of this and if there is any hint of an MRA slander campaign this should be taken extremely seriously. There are some twisted people out there and AF isn't one of them.

And saying that the mn forum isn't set up tech-wise to deal with these things is just so weak.

MmeLindor Thu 24-Oct-13 23:03:39

Rowan is a gal. A very glam gal.

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 23:04:13

I believe the question they ask the mods was:

do you frequent AIBU?
'yes'
sorry it is not for you

grin

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 23:04:30

Scarymuff

I'm going to be reporting a lot more posts I think. Usually I just ignore shit but if people are having it held against them, I might as well contribute to the count.

Please do. Really. Please. (This goes for everybody.)

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff Thu 24-Oct-13 23:04:31

I want a delete button. I will follow Usual around and just delete everything as she goes grin

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 23:04:43

I've seen a thread re local editors not seen anything about mods

ScaryNutellaFangs Thu 24-Oct-13 23:04:47

High profile ROWANs

Rowan Atkinson
Rowan Williams

umm...

IamInvisisble Thu 24-Oct-13 23:04:54

Are the volunteer mods just working through the night?

Altinkum Thu 24-Oct-13 23:05:15

I bet AF is one of them grin

ChipMonkeyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 23:05:19

<<<<<peers sideways at Rowan's hands to see if they look overlarge and a little hairy>>>>

IamInvisisble Thu 24-Oct-13 23:05:46

My mum wanted me to call DS1 Rowan. <useless bit of info>

Pan Thu 24-Oct-13 23:05:51

policywonk - def. a lovely woman.

MarmaladeBatkins Thu 24-Oct-13 23:05:56

I have a test to see whether Rowan is a man or lady;

Rowan, can you please answer this question?

Q: Where would one buy pot pourri?

<continues sewing Welcome Back AF bunting>

MilllyMollyMully Thu 24-Oct-13 23:06:03

Usual, if any poster says to you during the day: "Just wait till night falls..." then you'll know.

DownstairsMixUp Thu 24-Oct-13 23:06:28

I have been reporting more!

DownstairsMixUp Thu 24-Oct-13 23:06:42

teachers pet [grins]

ScaryNutellaFangs Thu 24-Oct-13 23:07:03

Pot Pourri?

Poundstretcher innit?

IamInvisisble Thu 24-Oct-13 23:07:08

I've been reporting, I keep thinking MNHQ must be getting really pissed off with me doing it!

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 23:07:14

IamInvisisble

Are the volunteer mods just working through the night?

Yup that's right

ClayDavis Thu 24-Oct-13 23:07:21

It was in site stuff wasn't it? Just after we were invaded by all those spambots. Although I'm starting to doubt myself now. I'm sure I read it but I can't find it on advanced search.

OnemorevoiceforAF Thu 24-Oct-13 23:07:33

I don't think it is ethical to publish stats about anyone if they are banned from responding. I'm quite shocked, actually.

Also, as others have noted, AF herself did not stir up anything. The stirring up was by others who appreciate her contribution, and mostly over a long time frame.

Finally, how on earth is it possible for several names- including a couple in this quite serious thread (who have just had yet more posts deleted, by the way) to just keep going with nasty shit from one thread to another . And over a long period.

Those of us who use the site regularly get to recognise them. Including people like me, who don't use the term "feminist".

Taken as a whole picture , surely you can see this has not been handled well?

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 23:08:23

Mintyy

I think this volunteer mods thing is much bigger news than the AF ban. Are you sure you aren't trying to hide the announcement on a bad news day?

Well if the last 24 hours haven't convinced you that we're just not that good on short-term strategy, nothing will... grin

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 23:08:24

Agreed passedgo

IamInvisisble Thu 24-Oct-13 23:08:46

Pot Pourri's from Wilko's round here! Who buys that shit these days? confused

ButThereAgain Thu 24-Oct-13 23:09:15

lol, Moll. Posters who are volunteer mods will have "something of the night about them" in the words of the great Anne Widdicombe.

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 23:09:43

Agreed onemorevoice.

MaryZombie Thu 24-Oct-13 23:10:24

Wow, I must have blinked and missed all of this.

Just marking place to read when I have time. I have no idea what's a-happening, but I do hope when adding up number of deleted posts that the figures are put down as "so many per year" rather than total.

It would seem a tad unfair to say "we have deleted 50 of X's posts" when she has been on mumsnet for 10 years, as opposed to someone with 49 posts deleted in a month, iyswim.

ChippingInNeedsANYFUCKER Thu 24-Oct-13 23:10:31

I thought Rowan was a man grin

She soon put me right grin

185/72,000 is an insignificant percentage. Given the Topics AF posts in and the fact that she stands up to the GFs and MTs and doesn't allow them to derail a thread - I can't see the problem.

That's without taking into account of things like 5 (or so of them) were probably on the thread that got her banned/suspended - where some very balanced posters cannot see that what she said was a PA and the fact that CFD is one of the GF's...??

I don't think you should be able to namechange in the first 12 months without permission from MN. It wouldn't stop the multiple sign ups, but it would help with some of the GFs.

Also, MNHQ, how much time is spent looking at other sites to see how they are laughing at causing all this trouble. It should be fairly easy to match up their 'boasts' with their 'posts'.

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 23:10:38

Shame the thread seems to have turned into a conversation about volunteer mods.

AF isn't able to defend herself and Justine and the others have explained their actions.

Shouldn't it all be closed now and a new thread started about the moderators.

colleysmill Thu 24-Oct-13 23:10:41

I think it'd be a good idea for the vol mods to have a panic button installed in case we get any big threads kicking off overnight - direct to mnhq with a loud klaxon.

I wouldnt have wanted to moderate some of the "big threads" recently (im thinking Penis beaker/Christmas appeal/ exile of AF etc)

DevonCiderPunk Thu 24-Oct-13 23:10:41

I'm guessing the volunteers... y'know, volunteered, and were vetted. I think we can trust MNHQ here; it fits with the minimal-moderation ethos that made the site what it is.

ExitPursuedByABogieMan Thu 24-Oct-13 23:10:43

Why would one buy pot pourri is a better question

MarmaladeBatkins Thu 24-Oct-13 23:10:46

Well you've all given Rowan the answer now. Harumph.

A man probably wouldn't know where to buy pot pourri whereas a lady would know that Home Bargains, purveyor of tat, is the place you want for wood shavings that smell like a nan's undercracker drawer...

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 23:11:22

Twatters - whats with the 'B'? <not putting the hours in obviously>

FrightRider Thu 24-Oct-13 23:11:40

Honestly.. ive modded boards before, sometimes you have to wear two hats... your poster hat and your mod hat.

I used to basically start each post with

/mod hat on

if i was having to deal with peoples crap.

it is perfectly possible to not let power get to your head, to stick to the rules given and to still maintain an amicable posting relationship as a normal poster when you're not being official. its called being a responsible adult and no different from parenting your kids when you have to go from fun central to disciplinarian.

As long as you're honest, fair and make sure everything you do is above board and within the guidelines, its not a problem.

Scarymuff Thu 24-Oct-13 23:11:45

Onemore I agree and I have reported this thread, as advised by MNHQ.

MaryZombie Thu 24-Oct-13 23:13:20

I have had about 100 posts deleted over 11 years - I suppose that's not too high an average? Ten a year, one every five weeks?

But it could sound terrible.

Added to which about half of them were to do with TypeNWank and his writers group or jh. So they shouldn't count.

garlicfucker Thu 24-Oct-13 23:13:47

I was a mod once, on an AOL board when AOL was big. It was a flipping NIGHTMARE!! Sure, I felt all luffly when I'd helped someone to be helped, but blimey! There are an awful lot of paranoid crazies on the interwebs, who are extremely quick to decide a mod has got it in for them, is running a vendetta against them, etc, etc. Every such incident had to be investigated by head office - rightly so, but I was spending half my life defending myself against completely random, made-up accusations.

Not to put anyone off volunteering grin It was a Good Experience on the whole, though definitely not the couple of hours a day I thought I'd signed up for.

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 23:13:50

the thread is about AF and!'what's next' - volunteer mods are next

so its fine to discuss here

Pan Thu 24-Oct-13 23:14:09

and according to reading of Rowan's post, vol mods wouldn't have posting facility - just goal-keeping obvious nonsense and refer to HQ afterwards prob.

MilllyMollyMully Thu 24-Oct-13 23:14:21

ButThereAgain, or maybe we will start irresistably thinking of the Prince of Darkness as we converse with them.

Scarletohello Thu 24-Oct-13 23:14:35

Bloody ell, just can't get to the end of this thread, it's moving so fast!

( more drama than Eastenders on here the last 24 hours)

Erm was really looking forward to reading the AF thread on Baby names, ( mind boggles)

What was it about, people planning to name their kid after her..?

Can anyone please summarise it for me..? smile

( gin will be available as a reward...)

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 23:14:45

garlicfucker

AOL? shudder

MarmaladeBatkins Thu 24-Oct-13 23:15:11

It is my halloween name, Rosa!

<swishes cape>

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 23:15:25

OnemorevoiceforAF

How on earth is it possible for several names- including a couple in this quite serious thread (who have just had yet more posts deleted, by the way) to just keep going with nasty shit from one thread to another . And over a long period.

Those of us who use the site regularly get to recognise them. Including people like me, who don't use the term "feminist".

Taken as a whole picture , surely you can see this has not been handled well?

Well there've been 7 (I think?) deletions on this thread, three of them of posters who are on AF's 'side' (sorry to be crude about it but I think that's a fair interpretation?)

Of the others (having a quick look at their posting history and reports record), they don't show up as having been reported frequently at all.

If you think there's a pattern we ought to be acting on, we really do need you to report it.

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 23:15:39

A new thread about mods would be better form imo.

MarmaladeBatkins Thu 24-Oct-13 23:17:03

Sorry I'm derailing even more by talking about pot pissing pourri.

garlicfucker Thu 24-Oct-13 23:17:05

NotYo - Thank you for the well-deserved sympathy!

IamtheZombie Thu 24-Oct-13 23:17:35

Rowan, Zombie remembers that thread as well. HQ wanted replies from posters in other time zones who would be online during the night here in the UK. Have some wine

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 23:17:38

scarlettohello

its still there entitled something like 'if I had a girl tomorrow'

it was basically just a few people blush mainly me going 'arrggghhh this is annoying as fook!'

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 23:17:51

It's already started re the deletion detail:

Spirulina Thu 24-Oct-13 23:10:43
AF probably won't bother coming back anyway.... Can you imagine the threads then!

Lots of threads in honour of her return. Yuk!

I read Justine's statement which have a breakdown if all the complaints and reports against AF. And Justine listed the times they have had to warn her. I was quite shocked tbh

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 23:19:12

It's not about sides Rowan, it's about what is fair and decent.

And when someone can't defend herself, well, it's not very fair or decent.

The last time I got a MN calling e mail it was followed by an apology because you'd got it wrong.

givemeaboost Thu 24-Oct-13 23:19:24

Id like to be proven wrong, but I really don't think there was a thread about modsconfused

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 23:20:08

'Of the others (having a quick look at their posting history and reports record), they don't show up as having been reported frequently at all.'

so what you are saying is that if someone hasn't been reported a lot that is automatically an indication that nothing is amiss?

Spirulina Thu 24-Oct-13 23:20:10

Ha garlic those aol boards were mad! Particularly at the time MM first went missing. Horrible

MilllyMollyMully Thu 24-Oct-13 23:20:23

I thought it was about eggs.

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 23:20:36

Lots of nice personal attacks on the anyfucker thread on AIBU at moment, have reported.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 23:20:46

ChippingInNeedsANYFUCKER

I thought Rowan was a man grin

She soon put me right grin

185/72,000 is an insignificant percentage. Given the Topics AF posts in and the fact that she stands up to the GFs and MTs and doesn't allow them to derail a thread - I can't see the problem.

That's without taking into account of things like 5 (or so of them) were probably on the thread that got her banned/suspended - where some very balanced posters cannot see that what she said was a PA and the fact that CFD is one of the GF's...??

I don't think you should be able to namechange in the first 12 months without permission from MN. It wouldn't stop the multiple sign ups, but it would help with some of the GFs.

Also, MNHQ, how much time is spent looking at other sites to see how they are laughing at causing all this trouble. It should be fairly easy to match up their 'boasts' with their 'posts'.

Sorry to bang on, but we don't have a problem with people 'standing up' and expressing strong views.

We have a problem with people breaking Talk Guidelines.

We think it's possible to state your case with searing precision, and remain perfectly within Guidelines. We see posters doing this every day.

The fact is, things got to this point - much to our dismay - with AF because 185/72,000 is not, in our experience, insignificant at all; it was very noticeable.

On your last point - if you see something going on on another site that you think we ought to know about, we'd love you to mail us (contactus@mumsnet.com)

Altinkum Thu 24-Oct-13 23:20:51

I don't know how many times I've been reported, but in all honestly I don't care, if people are going to be a twat them I'm going to tell them so, however at not many times I do, mostly it's the ones tho come in all guns blasting about people's lack of writing ability acting all superior because you know they can write a coherent sentence hmm and choosing to ignore the message of the post, even tho it's highly plausible that the poster may have dyslexia etc... Those posts piss me off and those posts they will get a twatty reply back!

CarpeVinum Thu 24-Oct-13 23:21:30

Carpe are you married to the Dolmio man

The Rana Man please cara! He is more classy than <sniff> Dolmio!

I hope your DH is okay with the knowledge he's going to be yelling virtually down my earhole the next time I notice it's 4am and I'm still posting!

He and his anti "all things based on the mysterious and potentially black magic powered internet, especially Da Ebil Wife Strealing MammasNet" outlook is available on loan for anybody needing to be pleaded with till they get off line. Espcially around the time I get sucked into thread.

lougle Thu 24-Oct-13 23:21:37

I've just looked back through the site stuff threads. There's nothing between May 2013 and now. I've checked the title of every one <sad>

I'm not fussed on a personal level - no way I'd be staying up at night to weed out hairy truckers. However, I do think that it is a fair question to ask how the volunteers have been selected and why quite regular posters have no idea that it was even happening.

OnemorevoiceforAF Thu 24-Oct-13 23:23:11

I will, Rowan.

But what about the other points?

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 23:23:33

Rowan could someone have a look at that AIBU thread? It's not very nice, apologies if you already are.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 23:24:08

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker

'Of the others (having a quick look at their posting history and reports record), they don't show up as having been reported frequently at all.'

so what you are saying is that if someone hasn't been reported a lot that is automatically an indication that nothing is amiss?

No - we're saying that if you think something is amiss, please report it.

ChippingInNeedsANYFUCKER Thu 24-Oct-13 23:24:29

Were you Rosa, that's such a shame sad

I defy Mother Teressa to do as much to protect vulnerable posters against goady fuckers/trolls/mts/mras as AnyFucker did and not get a few posts deleted. 185 out of 72,000 is an insignificant number.

It is easy not to have posts deleted - all you have to do is rarely post & absolutely never stand up to the twats that posts to deliberately upset vulnerable posters.

FrightRider Thu 24-Oct-13 23:25:25

its not difficult to flag up someone you think is being a repeated pain in the butt.

there are a few posters i've flagged up to MNHQ because i think they're posting a lot of inflammatory things or starting questionable threads.

you just hit report and say "Think this poster and their history needs looking into, they seem to be doing X a lot lately"

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 23:25:54

Chipping - I've copied and pasted someone elses shit stirring post, it's not me saying I was shocked - I'm saying that the crap has already started with people using it against her!!

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 23:26:52

lougle

I've just looked back through the site stuff threads. There's nothing between May 2013 and now. I've checked the title of every one <sad>

I'm not fussed on a personal level - no way I'd be staying up at night to weed out hairy truckers. However, I do think that it is a fair question to ask how the volunteers have been selected and why quite regular posters have no idea that it was even happening.

You know what lougle, we're beginning to think maybe it was deleted to protect the identities of the people who volunteered.

Although this may be bolleaux. It was a HelenMumsnet thing you see.

We will get to the bottom of it tomorrow but we really need to think about going to bed soon

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 23:27:39

RosaParksIsBack

Rowan could someone have a look at that AIBU thread? It's not very nice, apologies if you already are.

I'll see if I can find it now Rosa

MurderOfBanshees Thu 24-Oct-13 23:28:24

Here's your vol mod thread

<sighs dramatically>

What would you do without me? wink

BOF Thu 24-Oct-13 23:29:54

Apparently, Anyfucker is going to be the Head Volunteer Mod. I know, I've seen the email wink.

not really, please don't kill me Justine

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 23:30:04

OMG Murder I think I love you

aaaahyouidiot Thu 24-Oct-13 23:30:14

Yes yes to only allowing name changing after a certain period of registration - I'd say even just two or three months.

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 23:30:42

MAKE HER A MOD lol

Rowan is sobbing eith joy that you have found thatthread! grin

ExitPursuedByABogieMan Thu 24-Oct-13 23:30:48

So I was right. It's for forriners. And blaming Helen thlshock

YoniMatopoeia Thu 24-Oct-13 23:30:56

I have reported two posts on this thread that are not being very nice about AF, which is pretty unfair in her absence. Not heard anything back yet

MarmaladeBatkins Thu 24-Oct-13 23:31:01

"but we really need to think about going to bed soon"

I'm ready if you are, Rowan.

<twirls in wincyette nightie>

I'm off to Bedfordshire. Night all. smile

Pan Thu 24-Oct-13 23:31:14

BOF - you like to live dangerously.grin

lougle Thu 24-Oct-13 23:31:21

Oh well I wasn't looking for Eagles....

<sulks and retires to bed>

Thanks MurderOfBanshees

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 23:31:21

Thank you smile

ChippingInNeedsANYFUCKER Thu 24-Oct-13 23:31:46

Rosa - sorry. I thought you'd only C&P the first line and the rest was yours. After I posted I saw your next post about that other thread and was very confused?! Thanks for clarifying that smile

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 23:32:06

YoniMatopoeia

I have reported two posts on this thread that are not being very nice about AF, which is pretty unfair in her absence. Not heard anything back yet

Sorry Yoni - you wouldn't believe the size of our inbox. Are the posts still there?

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 23:32:24

tbf Helen was bu to not title it 'the vol mod thread' wink

MurderOfBanshees Thu 24-Oct-13 23:32:26

Right, so who is volunteering for making DS sleep through the night to thank me? <dead on feet>

MilllyMollyMully Thu 24-Oct-13 23:32:56

Bingo. Mother Teresa.

ChippingInNeedsANYFUCKER Thu 24-Oct-13 23:34:43

Banshee - remind me how old he is?!

lougle Thu 24-Oct-13 23:35:05

Yes, if you read the thread there was no mention of:

volunteer
moderate
moderation
moderator
ban

Instead, there were flipping Eagles hmm

Sparklybootedfucker Thu 24-Oct-13 23:35:13

I've just failed the Twatkins test for femininity <unhelpful>

Monty27 Thu 24-Oct-13 23:35:45

If I was AF I wouldn't come back either. This place has changed beyond recognition since I first lurked and then 'joined'.

The media has MN under the telescope now, which of course, in imho brings on the above ineffectual statement of values (see the OP above). I've always enjoyed MN Tower's posts, but sadly like most things, it feels far too commercial now. And honestly, the adverts, in times of austerity are a cringe. I'd certainly never recommend this site now, after years of loving it. I read an article in the Standard tonight (aka the evening Daily Mail), it read so badly I was cringeing at being a part of it.

Sad.

ClayDavis Thu 24-Oct-13 23:36:09

Rowan, I've PM'd you the link to the volunteer mod thread. I don't want to link it here for the reasons you've given for thinking that it got deleted.

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 23:36:19

Chipping you crazy loon :D

UnicornsNotRiddenByGrownUps Thu 24-Oct-13 23:36:27

I'm going to commit a bit of a faux pas and dive in to say that I haven't read this whole thread and if I'm going to get any sleep then Im not going to.

Thank-you for the OP explanation, very fair and well explained.

Reading the craziness on the boards last night I did think that it wouldn't be like MNHQ to not give a reason and give them time before you start creating havoc but each to their own.

MurderOfBanshees Thu 24-Oct-13 23:36:38

Chipping 18 months, and wonderfully cute when he isn't shrieking in your ear at 3am

YoniMatopoeia Thu 24-Oct-13 23:36:53

Rowan - dunno. I have to go to bed. I have to be up at 5 most days for my crazy commute.

So if you want someone to cover the early morning shift before you all make it into the office.... smile

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 23:37:40

The AIBU thread has been deleted because a poster is not here to defend herself.

Now maybe this one should go too.

And a new thread started to talk about Volunteer mods.

<<and pot pourri>>

ClayDavis Thu 24-Oct-13 23:38:04

X posts, Murder's already found it. Ignore me.

Scarymuff Thu 24-Oct-13 23:39:27

I agree reeling and have reported this thread, but not heard anything back yet.

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 23:40:53

Me too Scary.

ChippingInNeedsANYFUCKER Thu 24-Oct-13 23:41:06

Rosa - I really am sorry sad flowers Crazy Loon is probably a good description right now. AnyFuckerGate, RL 'stuff', stupidly early Half Term for us and sleep deprivation are all taking their toll. Sorry you caught the flak x

usualsuspect Thu 24-Oct-13 23:41:34

It does say and what next in the title

And tbh I don't think there's anything left to say about the AnyFucker debacle.

ChippingInNeedsANYFUCKER Thu 24-Oct-13 23:42:14

Banshee - please have him couriered over immediately - he's just what I need tonight!!

UnicornsNotRiddenByGrownUps Thu 24-Oct-13 23:42:49

ThePreHalloweenAFDebacleof2013

MurderOfBanshees Thu 24-Oct-13 23:43:06

Chipping grin Right, I'll see if I've got bubble wrap..

NotYoMomma Thu 24-Oct-13 23:43:15

why remove this this thread? its a good explanation thread and not everyone kicking off will have seen it yet

reelingintheyears Thu 24-Oct-13 23:43:23

What next ?

The end of the bottle for me. sad

RosaParksIsBack Thu 24-Oct-13 23:43:31

Chipping - I feel your pain, our half term started today sad praying for death already :D

passedgo Thu 24-Oct-13 23:44:37

I agree with the idea of no namechanging with the first 12 months. Sort the wheat from the chaff.

usualsuspect Thu 24-Oct-13 23:44:37

It will go down in MN history.

Quoted by nchanging regs to prove they are not trolls.

As I said upthread all fine but a little slow ....

Just thinking it's been worse than waiting for the official Prince George christening picture grin 24 hours later + and I still haven't seen it, despite searching BBC News website. Anyone else seen it - they said it'd be out today? Have seen lots of cute pics though of Georgy Porgy (slightly chubby in very cute way) taken immediately before and after the service.

Anyway, as you were ....
Bedtime I think ....

MrsShriek Thu 24-Oct-13 23:46:05

RowanIsNotAMan (nice new nn doncha fink) would sort out the erm gender confusion wink

We need GF radar. Or TrollShooters.

Interesting to Ye Olde MNers that GoadyFucker shares initials with SWSNBN
And look how that went
Sigh

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Thu 24-Oct-13 23:46:13

Rowan this one is still going.

MilllyMollyMully Thu 24-Oct-13 23:48:44

If there were a ban on name-changing during a poster's first year, would that stop those people who have to name-change for security reasons being troll-hunted the whole time?

If so, that is a great solution to a huge problem.

LineRunner Thu 24-Oct-13 23:50:48

It's 0.0026%.

CoolStoryBro Thu 24-Oct-13 23:51:27

This is hilarious. Threads and threads of people frothing at the mouth, demanding to know "why, why, WHY?!!!" and then when MNHQ tell us why, pages of, "You shouldn't have told us! That's wrong!!" As someone said upthread, you were damned either way. I think it's a perfectly good explanation, and I like AF, the few times I have come into contact with her.

BOF I lol'd at your admission you were a liiiitttttle bit drunk. I was reading last night, presuming that nearly everyone posting was! grin

usualsuspect Thu 24-Oct-13 23:51:45

Did you work that out on a big blackboard,Liney?

Anyfuckergate Thu 24-Oct-13 23:53:51

Did no one try to actually voice talk with Anyfucker, at any point, by skype or phone? Because it is what I would have done, given how prolific she is at posting and the help she has given to others? I think that someone like her really does deserve that curtesy.

As to the giving out possibly private information someone should have been communicating this to her before posting publicly. Although I can understand how busy mn towers must have been today.

However I guess something can be learnt here, for everyone. We are all still learning and growing, I hope that Anyfucker can come back with her head held high (today has demonstrated how she has touched many people) and whilst mnhq re-look at the framework of this community and how to further nurture this environment (which really they do do very well, given the popularity of this site). I guess that we can also learn, to report when needed, to maybe support others more by realizing that behind every screen is a person (well usually, sometimes the cat may type up some utter shite, but hey she's a cat!).

Anyhoo it is late and those darn munchkins will be doing small person talk at stupid o'clock tomorrow, so long and thanks for all the fish.

passedgo Thu 24-Oct-13 23:57:55

Rowan you really need to sort out your IT. Your inbox should be selective, you should have the tools with which to sort this. God it's such a girl thing to go all dizzy when the tech gets too much. This is the mumsnet problem. Jesus you can have a remote control heartbeat, you can predict the weather and see the stars with a phone nowadays. Surely a forum full of feisty females should be manageable in a multi-zillion pound organisation in 2013?

Part of me likes that this forum hasn't changed for years, it's now almost retro in its styling. I like that because I believe that function is more important than form and it makes people work harder to be here. But the function part isn't coping any more I don't think.

MaryZombie Fri 25-Oct-13 00:00:38

Jesus, whatever about AF, some of the gloaty name hanging is fucking disgraceful.

Are these really adults name changing on an anonymous forum to post childish crap? I hope someone in HQ s updating the GF spreadshit hmm

'girl thing to do'? wtaf?

MmeLindor Fri 25-Oct-13 00:04:53

Passedgo
That's rather patronising, don't you think?

Rowan isn't going all girly and can't cope with the tech. They've been inundated with reports over the past 24 hr and are trying to catch up.

PedlarsSpanner Fri 25-Oct-13 00:08:11

name hanging sounds terrible Mary

<pats Mary's hand>

Pan Fri 25-Oct-13 00:08:48

passedgo - as a process-analyst in diagnostics you seem to have missed the crucial bits, if you don't mind me saying. There will have been a small avalanche of posts to deal with and how it's managed is nothing to do with Rowan's sex or abilities.

PedlarsSpanner Fri 25-Oct-13 00:10:05

gender, Pan, GENDER

<tut>

weeping at the idea of mn being a multi-zillion pound operation...Justine has probably been posting from her new acquired Island, but using retro style Cath Kidston semaphore bunting flags.

Do you know the difference between turnover and profit passed? or is that too manly for your pretty little head to get around?

DixonBainbridge Fri 25-Oct-13 00:11:07

Thanks Justine,

Far too late to slog through all the pages tonight but it's nice to see a clear, factual explanation of the events leading to the suspension.

Not an easy job for you guys, but a good call.

Pan Fri 25-Oct-13 00:14:14

hmmm , I know Rowan as a woman, she was referred to as 'girl'...I'm probably staying with 'sex' but will ponder this briefly.....done!smile

DoubleLifeIsForAnyFUCKER Fri 25-Oct-13 00:15:05

Good resolution from last nights 'uprising', I'll say it again as there is still alot of wtf going on about it, that it wasn't really about an individual poster, it was about a bigger concern which mumsnet are now addressing.

Good result and reaction Mumsnet, thank you.

DoubleLifeIsForAnyFUCKER Fri 25-Oct-13 00:19:39

I am interested to hear that you will consider the more subtle forms of unpleasantness if we report them.

After being very nastily and personally harried in the childminder/nanny topic of all things, I won't ever be asking for advice there again, which cuts off one of the only sources of advice I have access to for certain important things in my life.

I didn't report although I was very upset, and previous personal stuff was twisted and thrown back in my face, loads of blaming and ganging up. But it was all oblique and half finished sentences etc so it stayed firmly on this side of mumsnet rules... But ultimately was very nasty.

I ended up feeling like I had to let myself get taken apart or defending myself by give a summary of the last 12 months of my life in order to defend myself and hope to 'restore my validity' in those posters eyes. Which no one replied to as they were perfectly content to write their barbed comments and not come back, presumably happy with the thread as it stood. Thank fuck for the person that PM ed me to say 'what the hell happened there'. it was all very unnecessary and yet seemed to be an accepted way of treating people.

It's this kind of stuff which made me feel mumsnet tone has changed. If you are willing to look at this kind of nastiness then I think it will have an effect on the tone and approachability of the site.

LineRunner Fri 25-Oct-13 00:22:33

Usual, yes, I have a big one.

KoPo Fri 25-Oct-13 00:22:35

Did no one try to actually voice talk with Anyfucker, at any point, by skype or phone? Because it is what I would have done, given how prolific she is at posting and the help she has given to others? I think that someone like her really does deserve that curtesy

Really? So that is pretty much saying that AF is more important than other posters on MN? AF herself would most likely disagree with that notion. 185 out of 72000 yes it does sound pretty small but is that 185 spread over the whole of her time here or is it an escalating pattern?

That being said I have seen AF goaded a fair few times on here and yes she does sometimes bite back. I think she invests a lot of herself on here and has offered man many posters care and consideration. She has been more fighty of late and I wonder if she has simply had it with the goady fuckers on here. I have in the spirit of fairness seen AF make some very bad posts and she can be very dogmatic at times. And yes I have seen her call out people needlessly.

But I do believe that on balance AF is a very kind spirited and as a rule very wise poster on here. And her contribution to MN has been huge. Sometimes we need to remember that there is a human being behind those posts and none of us are perfect. I ask people on here to be honest with themselves and ask have they ever got it wrong?

MNHQ have had a very tough time over this and as a group we have demanded answers and then said those answers were not good enough. So then we as a group demanded even more answers with more detail. So MNHQ have now given us those details. So now a large number of us as a group are now saying that MNHQ souldnt now have given the level of detail that WE demanded. Now if that is not a cant win situation then I don't know what is.

Personally I am hoping to have AF back posting among us asap. But ultimately that is her decision alone and not ours to make or speculate on.

MilllyMollyMully Fri 25-Oct-13 00:22:38

Good post, DoubleLife.

HerrenaHarridan Fri 25-Oct-13 00:28:09

Well done mnhq.

Aside from not pointing out sooner that af was only suspended, I think you have handled this all exceptionally well.

Personally I appreciate the transparency you have offered and the interactive way you have discussed things.

wine

Ps Rowan, I know 3 rl Rowans and they are all women grin

passedgo Fri 25-Oct-13 00:28:43

Am I the only person that thinks this website is a bit outdated? And that the massive increase in mn users needs acknowledging on a tech level? I'm not patronising Rowan, it's just that their system sounds outdated and that's not helping her deal with this. I'm also not capable of patronising because I'm not a man.

Whether they are letting down the sisterhood by being prehistoric is another debate I guess

MmeLindor Fri 25-Oct-13 00:31:39

Women are capable of being patronising.

I don't think the site is horribly old fashioned. Remember the fuss when Classic Mumsnet was dropped for Mew Mumsnet? There have been a lot of subtle (and some not so subtle) tweaks over the years.

PedlarsSpanner Fri 25-Oct-13 00:31:51

<sits on hands>

Tweasels Fri 25-Oct-13 00:34:09

This is all good with me. I think there was a fair amount of overreaction last night (myself included) but, if nothing else some important issues have been highlighted.

I reported a thread earlier and it was taken down really quickly so even in the current quagmire the wheels are turning.

This is when it's a real shame Scottishmummy isn't around. She'd be able to put this into perspective and tell us all how pathetic we are grinSo while the lines of communication are open HQ, has she be bannedor has she just disappeared ?