you are deleting too many threads and posts

(77 Posts)
KevinFoley Thu 16-May-13 13:05:47

For no good reason that I can see. It never used to be this zealous, please explain. It's getting tedious and anything even slightly controversial and interesting to discuss is being deleted. I am concerned we are going to be left with a site full of the same few boring subjects.

I have been asked to bring this subject over to here.

girliefriend Thu 16-May-13 13:07:30

Yes I did wonder why the 'scruffy children' thread got pulled confused and didn't understand the pfb pfp thing <obv being a bit thick>

Boggler Thu 16-May-13 13:11:25

The scruffy children thread was pulled? Why fgs there was nothing remotely wrong with it! I agree the deletions have gone too far.

girliefriend Thu 16-May-13 13:15:10

That was my reaction Boggler! And why pull it after so many pages, surely if there are concerns about the op they should pull it straight away not wait until everyone has commented on it or just leave it alone to tail off naturally.

<wonders what I'm missing>

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 13:19:50

Hello. We're sorry you feel like that. Obviously, we beg to differ, though.

We don't think we're deleting any more posts/threads, as a proportion of all posts/threads, than we ever have. In fact, last time we analysed this, (in response to another Site Stuff thread!), we were making fewer deletions, proportionally.

But, obviously, the site has grown so much, there are many many more posts and many many more threads than there used to be - so, there will be more deletions, as a total, than there used to be.

With reference to the scruffs thread in particular, it was started by a poster we had banned previously who specialised in deliberately starting threads to cause a ruck. We're sorry to those who said there were enjoying it but we do have a rule about not starting threads to inflame and frankly we'd had enough of that particular PBP

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 13:25:04

girliefriend

That was my reaction Boggler! And why pull it after so many pages, surely if there are concerns about the op they should pull it straight away not wait until everyone has commented on it or just leave it alone to tail off naturally.

<wonders what I'm missing>

girliefriend, Mumsnet is post-moderated. That means, effectively, that we don't "see" threads until they're reported to us.

The scruffy thread wasn't reported to us until there was a minor bunfight that included some personal attacks.

At that point, we looked at the thread and clocked who the OP was.

KevinFoley Thu 16-May-13 13:26:30

Thank you for responding but I do think the sensitivity button for pulling threads has been too low in some cases recently. Obviously you must delete the awful stuff I appreciate that, and until recently I pretty much always agreed with deletions but it's quite tedious when fairly innocuous stuff keeps being pulled.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 13:37:06

KevinFoley

Thank you for responding but I do think the sensitivity button for pulling threads has been too low in some cases recently. Obviously you must delete the awful stuff I appreciate that, and until recently I pretty much always agreed with deletions but it's quite tedious when fairly innocuous stuff keeps being pulled.

We do quite often leave innocuous threads that we know have been started by a PBP, KevinFoley.

We even occasionally leave threads started by an obvious troll (see the "Claire for a boy?" thread in Baby Names and Yoni threads passim) just because they're really funny.

But when we can see that a thread is rapidly heading into bunfight territory - and we KNOW that was the OP's intention - it really does seem to more sensible to delete.

By the way, trolls/wind-uppy threads/posters tend to arrive in clumps - often when Mumsnet has been in the news for something or others - so there are quite often little spikes of deletions every now and then. But normal service usually resumes in a couple of days.

girliefriend Thu 16-May-13 13:38:47

Thanks Helen, out of interest if a poster has been previously banned how do they then start a thread? confused

Wouldn't go as far as to say I was enjoying that thread but was puzzled as to why it got pulled as it seemed like something that a group of mums would chat about iyswim.

Hey ho.

KevinFoley Thu 16-May-13 13:42:27

Yes but normal service is becoming 'what's for tea' and 'can I wear white to a wedding'. Boring. Please don't censor the arguing too much- people with ridiculous views just show themselves up really.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 13:45:59

girliefriend

Thanks Helen, out of interest if a poster has been previously banned how do they then start a thread? confused

Wouldn't go as far as to say I was enjoying that thread but was puzzled as to why it got pulled as it seemed like something that a group of mums would chat about iyswim.

Hey ho.

Sadly, there are ways of playing with IPs and stuff and re-regging if you're really that sad

We do take your point about that thread and are quite happy to say we might have made the wrong call. These things are always a matter of judgement and context - which means it's never easy to get things 100% right all the time - but we think, on balance, that's better than having hard-and-fast inflexible rules (eg Every thread started by a troll must be deleted etc etc) that often stamp down too hard on our collective spontaneity.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 13:52:09

But what IS for tea, KevinFoley? grin

KevinFoley Thu 16-May-13 13:59:19

Well it's bangers and mash since you ask...

limitedperiodonly Thu 16-May-13 14:08:55

But when we can see that a thread is rapidly heading into bunfight territory - and we KNOW that was the OP's intention - it really does seem to more sensible to delete.

So you think the scruffy thread was started by someone who used trigger words to get certain posters to respond knowing other other posters would respond to them, and then the OP sat back and enjoyed it?

Probably, you know more than I do. But I see what kevin means. Wouldn't you be deleting threads all over the shop that weren't trolling but were on commonplace things people feel strongly about like smoking around children or grammar schools.

If someone started a thread about what a lovely person Denise Van Cunten was I might feel moved to disagree for example. They might be trolling for me, but I agreed to bite...

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 14:13:51

limitedperiodonly

^But when we can see that a thread is rapidly heading into bunfight territory - and we KNOW that was the OP's intention - it really does seem to more sensible to delete.^

So you think the scruffy thread was started by someone who used trigger words to get certain posters to respond knowing other other posters would respond to them, and then the OP sat back and enjoyed it?

Probably, you know more than I do. But I see what kevin means. Wouldn't you be deleting threads all over the shop that weren't trolling but were on commonplace things people feel strongly about like smoking around children or grammar schools.

If someone started a thread about what a lovely person Denise Van Cunten was I might feel moved to disagree for example. They might be trolling for me, but I agreed to bite...

No, we definitely don't mind robust debate about things folk feel strongly about. That's what makes Mumsnet tick.

But if we can see the OP is a poster we've previously banned - maybe many many many times - and whose speciality was bunfight-creation, we may take an altogether different view.

As we said earlier in the thread, it's all a matter of judgement and context (some of which, it's true, only we can see), and we won't always get it right. But we do do our best - and we do very much tend to err on the side of keeping a thread, rather than deleting it.

lisaro Thu 16-May-13 14:17:41

Hi Helen, maybe I missed something but what happened to the 'running over my daughter so yours can go to a party on time'or similar title thread?

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 14:18:57

lisaro

Hi Helen, maybe I missed something but what happened to the 'running over my daughter so yours can go to a party on time'or similar title thread?

Not the foggiest! Must have missed that one. Sounds, erm, interesting. I'll see if I can find out.

ItsallisnowaFeegle Thu 16-May-13 14:19:04

I always miss the action hmm

Boy named Claire was downright boring as an OP. The Johnny Cash post, along with others, were the only redeeming feature.

Why can't the under-bridge brigade shake it up a notch? Give us something 'proper' to get our claws and fangs teeth into? Meh!

lisaro Thu 16-May-13 14:24:51

Thanks Helen - it just disappeared from my 'you're on' list.

limitedperiodonly Thu 16-May-13 14:25:38

Running over my daughter, as in with a car? confused

That probably should be deleted.

lisaro Thu 16-May-13 14:30:09

It was a woman whose daughter had been pushed over by a car whose driver was trying to park to pick up her child in a rush to get to a party.n

limitedperiodonly Thu 16-May-13 14:35:58

Oh it really was about being run over? shock I thought it might be about someone who was running late and left the poor kid behind, which would be bad enough...

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 14:42:13

lisaro

Thanks Helen - it just disappeared from my 'you're on' list.

It was a (different) PBP, lisaro. We basically had reason to believe it was all hairy-handed tosh...

lisaro Thu 16-May-13 14:46:22

Thanks Helen. I see loads of threads on here I think are made up, but that one just never seemed it. blush

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 16-May-13 15:43:01

Am I the only one who is dying to know who that PBP is?
Is it Mitmoo?

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 16:03:39

LadyBeagleEyes

Am I the only one who is dying to know who that PBP is?
Is it Mitmoo?

It's always Mitmoo... wink

LaQueen Thu 16-May-13 18:41:23

Do people really post something, deliberately, hoping that it will goad a reaction from specific posters...which in turn will warrant reactive posts from other specific posters...

Because, that sounds just a wee bit creepy...and far fetched? Like we're all dancing on invisible strings, or something?

So......on the scruffy children thread, the thread ran for a lot of pages with it all being quite civilised and circumspect, so clearly the OP wasn't getting the kerfuffle they hoped for...

So...when it all suddenly, in the space of half a page descended into a bun-fest, had the OP decided to pull a few more strings, to get the desired results hmm

Because, surely no one is that manipulative, or adept. I can't believe that.

Portofino Thu 16-May-13 18:45:21

I don't think it was the op that made the thread turn into a bunfight, but you could argue that the op knows their audience and knows who might rock up to make that happen. So yes, definitely manipulated.

ItsallisnowaFeegle Thu 16-May-13 18:54:30

LaQueen, I think it's doable, only because the OP's on those threads are obviously starting off with an agenda and the rest of us take each thread or at least the majority of as genuine.

It's bloody boring and creepy and I just think do they really, genuinely have nothing better to do with their time? trust me, if all else fails, a day of masturbating is wayyyy much more fun shock

LaQueen Thu 16-May-13 19:19:10

You're possibly right, then Porto - harking back, the OP didn't contribute to the thread, much past the first page - but, that doesn't mean they weren't contributing in other ways, I suppose.

I have learned, that as much goes on behind MN, as does actually on the threads themselves.

But, if what you say is right, what does the OP actually gain from doing all of it? They derive a sense of... what exactly?

LaQueen Thu 16-May-13 19:22:31

Probably Itsall - I think MN is a many layered cake, and while most of us are happy to just lick the icing, and nibble the sugar roses on top...there are people, who like to dig...waaaaaaaay down deep, where it all gets a bit sticky, and murky, and greasy.

MooseBeTimeForSpring Thu 16-May-13 19:29:16

Sorry, what's a PBP?

MooseBeTimeForSpring Thu 16-May-13 19:29:51

Duh, previously banned person/poster?

hollyisalovelyname Thu 16-May-13 19:34:03

Helen any chance you'll get the pound sign working on the mobile site. It's been bonkers since you changed the emocions. You said you'd fix it. Months now!!!

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 16-May-13 19:34:54

hollyisalovelyname

Helen any chance you'll get the pound sign working on the mobile site. It's been bonkers since you changed the emocions. You said you'd fix it. Months now!!!

Do you mean on the app, hollyisalovelyname?

ItsallisnowaFeegle Thu 16-May-13 19:36:39

LaQ - that sounds quite extremely, very, disturbingly ominous.

I can't imagine why anyone would be doing that but I'm probably just a dick ha!

Portofino Thu 16-May-13 20:05:07

There are lots of MN haters. There are other forums where they encourage people to post stuff and then laugh at all the responses. People get off on getting a reaction.

Portofino Thu 16-May-13 20:07:08

I have a very good memory and a mental spreadsheet. grin

ItsallisnowaFeegle Thu 16-May-13 20:10:01

There are lots of MN haters. There are other forums where they encourage people to post stuff and then laugh at all the responses. People get off on getting a reaction.

shock what a bunch of utter wankers bores! grin

LaQueen Thu 16-May-13 20:30:48

But...but...why don't they just have fun, on their own site. Or, just roll up their sleeves, and join MN properly...and have fun.

I don't get it [feels frustrated]

Oh, hang on - is it like at school, when you get that group of hissy girls in the corner, too uptight, resentful and embittered to akcherly relax enough to enjoy themselves, and have a good time...so get their kicks by sneering at those girls, who were larking about, and having a laugh?

Because I remember those sorta of girls hmm

LaQueen Thu 16-May-13 20:32:55

Neither can I Itsall, but then I is lazy, me. It all sounds too much like hardwork.

Especially, when you could be frollicking on MN instead, drinking tea and opening a new bag of Minstrels...

[opens new bag of Minstrels...]

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 16-May-13 20:40:35

There are an awful lot of twats on MN TBF.
But far less so than I see on other sites.
So I don't understand why they come on here to mock as this is still the most intelligent and funniest website available IMO.
The threads they start will get the frothers out, and sadly they usually believe what they're saying.

LaQueen Thu 16-May-13 20:44:44

I agree Lady.

I was already a Forums veteran of 10 years, before I discovered Mumsnet.

It's still, by far, the fastest moving, funniest, most insightful, most intelligent site I've ever found smile

ItsallisnowaFeegle Thu 16-May-13 21:01:40

And the forum with the most 'draw' IYSWIM? I genuinely have a good time on here, much to my DP's amusement when I'm hooked on a thread.

LaQueen Thu 16-May-13 21:11:07

What's so good about it, is that it's so big that it can be quite anonymous, and also quite intimate, too.

I love the fact, you can lose yourself in 101 threads, if you want. But, then you might happen across a thread, recognise 3 or 4 names, and suddenly it's like bumping into your mates in a cafe, somewhere smile

I don't like the games-playing, and the hidden agendas, and the spread-shitting (or should that be spread-sheeting?), and the petty sniping...that goes on. And on.

If people want to do that, then it's fair enough - but it's not my bag, and to carry on having a good time, is the best defence.

TwoFourSixOhOne Thu 16-May-13 21:13:26

I love a well informed spreadsheet.

I'm an immersive MNer. It's all good fun.

Portofino Thu 16-May-13 21:21:52

But LaQueen, for example, I have made comments about stuff you have posted, which I think to be excessive/rude/generalisations and generally you come back with talk of "usual suspects" so presumably you believe that I don't have my own opinions and rely on an underground network of spies. I for one, don't have any hidden agenda.

Portofino Thu 16-May-13 21:24:11

I think I know who towfoursix is though and she DOES have a spreadsheet wink

LaQueen Thu 16-May-13 21:29:40

I would always support anyone's right, to state their opinion Porto, even if it was detrimental to me, I would still defend their right to do so.

But, that doesn't preclude my also observing, that I appear to have a cohort of Usual Suspects, too, who kinda tend to appear within minutes of each other, on the same threads...time, and again.

If I see it happening, I'll sometimes call it, if I can be bothered. But, as most people know I'm on MN to have fun, not get bogged down in lots of hassle and throw a strop. Just not my style.

But, it's not just me. I watch it happening to several other MN-etters, who appear to have their own Usual Suspects/Haterz, too.

Portofino Thu 16-May-13 21:37:15

Is that not posters attracted to the same threads though? So you get the same people posting? I have posted on the Amanda Knox threads for example. Tends to be the same posters with a few newbies. Not a conspiracy.

LaQueen Thu 16-May-13 21:41:01

I suspect it's probably a bit of both, Porto.

TwoFourSixOhOne Thu 16-May-13 21:41:53

I used to have a nemesis. That was fun. We did auditions for the job.

Portofino Thu 16-May-13 21:56:06

There seems to be a huge lot of potentially made up stuff on MN at the mo, so I am not all surprised that many old mnetters are very self selecting about where and what they post. I mean if you take out the "baby" related threads, we are talking AIBU, chat and relationships where most of us with older children would congregate. I post in Travel a lot, and living overseas.

Discount potentially dodgy threads, and heck, we all end up on those "is this going to be a bun fight" type ones. On a day filled with threads on BLW, shall I POAS, my MIL is a cunt, is it any wonder we all end up on the same slightly conterversial but vaguely interesting looming thread?

ProtegeMoi Thu 16-May-13 21:57:41

Not got a clue about deletions but I'm joining in and saying PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix the pound sign on the app, its driving me mad!

hollyisalovelyname Thu 16-May-13 23:09:38

Yes Helenmumsnet . On the mobile site.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 17-May-13 11:28:06

Hello. We're afraid the pound sign - and the emoticons - on the app are glitches we're already aware of but are still trying to get fixed.

We are on it, honest, but it's complicated. Hope you can bear with us.

Some of you who are finding the app unlive-able with in its current state might find the mobile version of the site easier to use in the meantime.

CherylTrole Fri 17-May-13 23:35:12

I do find MN very cliquey, always have done. There are a few posters who dont need a gang and wing it happily on their own. I find them more approachable/ easier/ nicer to converse with. But cliques or not I really dont mind as I take posters as I find them.

Portofino Sat 18-May-13 17:47:38

I don't do cliques really, though I appreciate others really enjoy them. It makes me cross though on he odd instance where a clique comes on a thread they don't like and derail it completely. I agree with LaQueen that It can be like being back at school at times. I am mid forties, peri-menopausal and bolshy. I maybe say what I think and am not polite or sensitive at times. If I get it really wrong, I am usually happy to apologise and not run away and hide. I have learnt a lot through the MN cut and thrust, particularly about feminism, the difficulties faced by parents of sn children etc which have totally changed my views.

LaQueen Sat 18-May-13 18:01:47

I completely agree with you Porto. I dislike cliques, and don't belong in any of them, so far as I can tell hmm

I'm in my 40s now, and can't be arsed with them...but, even as a girl of 14, I found them pointless, and often petty. An attitude which led to me being sent to Coventry, for weeks, by the other girls in my class. It didn't bother me unduly [shrugs]

I say what I mean, and mean what I say. Sometimes it offends, sometimes it amuses. But, I don't think I'm ever deliberately spiteful, or petty on MN (or IRL) and I don't harbour grudges, or flounce, or hide.

I just think life is too short to get dragged down into all that crap. I'll happily hotly disagree with someone on one thread...then 3 days later, I'll happily hotly defend them on another.

I come on MN to relax, have some fun, read a few interesting things, have a good debate. I don't come on MN to split hairs, update my spreadsheet for nefarious purposes, deliberately goad, or nit-pick, or target. It's just not my bag smile

Like you I've learned a lot through MN, and on the odd occasion when I wander from AIBU/Chat it does open your eyes to an awful lot, and perhaps helps you understand a bit better, how and why people post, what they do.

LaQueen Sat 18-May-13 18:02:54

Ahem...actually I was a fully paid up member of the Richard Armitage Appreciation Society, on MN...but, I think that's perfectly understandable wink

Ilikethebreeze Sat 18-May-13 18:10:15

Going back to the posts about trolls, and why they do it.
I think they are lonely people, very lonely.
If they had a non lonely life, they wouldnt do it would they?

Portofino Sat 18-May-13 18:42:58

I think the Internet has opened up all sorts of possibilities to attention seekers, people with true mh problems and those who fancy themselves as writers.

Portofino Sat 18-May-13 18:44:09

I could blame no one for being part of a RA appreciation society.

NetworkGuy Sat 18-May-13 20:35:17

"is it like at school, when you get that group of hissy girls in the corner, too uptight, resentful and embittered..."

I suspect a fair number of trolls are male, hairy armpits and dragging their knuckles, thinking they can poke fun and not be spotted as fools, out to provoke. Hence the discussion which might take place on another site, and a bit of back slapping before the thread on MN is pulled... (or left, with suitable "bunch of wankers" comments from those who identified the situation immediately and perhaps played along for a while).

NetworkGuy Sat 18-May-13 20:35:30

Ilikethebreeze - not sure what it was I heard the other day (kitchen radio generally on BBC R4 or Five Live, but it could have been my phone with TuneIn radio app)... Some young woman who was being interviewed, described by interviewer as a troll.

Seems it is sometimes not the case of loneliness, but like some groups of hackers, being able to post and get some kudos from their peer group when they either select a 'target' or link to some thread they started. I got the impression the interviewer was somewhat dumbfounded. If I can find what it was, I will post a link.

flanbase Sat 18-May-13 20:40:51

Portofino - you wrote "I think the Internet has opened up all sorts of possibilities to attention seekers, people with true mh problems and those who fancy themselves as writers." I don't agree with your classification on mental health problems as it is so disrespect for those with mental health issues. How can you put it with attention seekers and writers.

Portofino Sat 18-May-13 21:06:34

I am not meaning to demean mh problems, but sometimes people post and they have issues MN cannot help with. I don't mean to disrespect anyone at all. Fair point not to lump it together, but I was talking groups of people.

girliefriend Sat 18-May-13 21:21:40

I don't understand the mn cliques either, I definitely don't belong to one and I don't understand it but then again I am eaisly confused

Is that what the nobdies threads are for?

Also find the dating thread very cliquey, I posted on there once and was totally ignored which is fine but kind of made me want to start another thread for people dating who aren't in the clique of the dating thread thread grin

Ilikethebreeze Sat 18-May-13 21:31:19

I dont think the nobdies are a clique at all. I popped in there for a few days, several months ago, and they were very welcoming indeed.
Didnt mind me popping in and out or leaving. they seem to have an open door policy.

Dont know about the dating thread.
Why dont you start a new one. See what happens?

Ilikethebreeze Sat 18-May-13 21:32:35

NetworkGuy, I would like to listen to the link if you can find it. thanks.

flanbase Sat 18-May-13 21:34:10

Thanks for explaining Portofino

hollyisalovelyname Sun 19-May-13 06:49:11

Thank you Helenmumsnet but it's a long time a fixin smile

LaQueen Sun 19-May-13 12:02:29

I have tried to escape the University of Milton threads, many a time...but, they keep sucking me back in, by cunningly posting links of RA smouldering, in black leather trews and body armour...what's a girl to do hmm

LaQueen Sun 19-May-13 12:06:18

But, joshing aside - I don't think that the trolls necessarily have any MH issues, or are even especially lonely/have no life etc.

I think it's often, just as network says, or even just very simply, that there are plenty of people who (if you met them IRL, would be perfectly normal and nice) are quite insensitive, and just use MH in quite a blithe manner, with little thought to the consequences of their posts.

TwoFourSixOhOne Sun 19-May-13 12:43:15

Yes, LaC, I think you are completely correct.

NetworkGuy Sun 19-May-13 14:09:00

Ilikethebreeze - found it - was BBC R4 "Digital Human" from 22 April on "Transgression"

Link is to the MP3 which may play (depending on your phone/ laptop/ PC) or see BBC Podcasts for DH

(NB - only 4 days left to download it)

Ilikethebreeze Sun 19-May-13 16:12:05

Listened to the first 5 minutes so far.
Fascinating. Thanks for the link.

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