MN allows racism to stand

(606 Posts)
amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 14:50:12

I have reported it 3 times today, 1 before 9am.
Heard nothing from them.

Convert Tue 13-Nov-12 14:50:40

What racism?

B1ueberryMuff1n Tue 13-Nov-12 14:54:21

they're always really slow to remove a thread/post. it's annoying as there's no edit button. i have regretted the odd 'overshare' and asked them to delete a post and it usually takes a good while. I think they only check reported posts about twice a day.

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 14:59:09

Racism was on a thread last night.
There were 2 posters doing it.
I thought the first may have been accidental. not sure.
I left the thread and went to bed.
Poster number 1 basically repeated it again this morning.
I reported, approx 8 am. Again approx 10am, and again 1.30pm.
Heard nothing.

If they are only checking reported posts twice daily, that is not often enough.

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 15:17:50

They have now deleted 2 out of the 3. Interestingly, they said because they were personal attacks. They did not mention racism.
They have not deleted the 3rd one. I have reported it once more.

Greensleeves Tue 13-Nov-12 15:20:15

I have seen MNHQ delete racist remarks many times in the past. I think it unlikely they have changed their policy in favour of letting racism stand hmm

Have you tried emailing them? I have always received a response when I have done this (although not always within 5 minutes, and not always the response was hoping for grin)

MN is humungous, they can't read every thread in real time.

Greensleeves Tue 13-Nov-12 15:21:09

what thread are you on about? link to it so we can pronounce give an opinion

goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 15:21:40

yes link to it please

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 15:24:10

They have now deleted the 3rd post

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 15:25:43

I am a bit loathe to link it.
I think the op hid the thread.
The op had french connections.
2 posters were using the word frog.

Greensleeves Tue 13-Nov-12 15:27:00

so you complained, and they deleted it all within a few hours?

job's a good 'un then!

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 15:43:10

They deleted them after I started this thread.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 15:52:45

but they have been deleted?

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 15:56:09

Yes, they are all deleted now.
They started to get deleted 20 minutes after I started this thread.

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 15:56:38

do you mean frog is racist?

Greensleeves Tue 13-Nov-12 15:57:50

What are you suggesting, that MNHQ felt somehow threatened or compelled by you starting this thread into doing something they weren't otherwise going to do?

Really?

Next time, just wait!

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 15:59:30

well then.

unless greeny's right.

hully, I used to collect frogs. I love 'em. <random>

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 16:02:16

French people? Where did you keep them?

Greensleeves Tue 13-Nov-12 16:03:46

Hully what the fuck are you doing in that Easter frock? In this weather?

It is making me twitch

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 16:04:35

I'm ahead of the curve

PoppyAmex Tue 13-Nov-12 16:09:00

Is "frog" racist?

I thought it was like "kiwi" for New Zealanders or "yank" for Americans?

VirginiaDare Tue 13-Nov-12 16:10:20

Pretty sure that french is not a race, by any stretch, and frog is not racist.

CindySherman Tue 13-Nov-12 16:12:39

Good grief

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 16:14:30

I was going to say, its xenophobia, isn't it? Not racism?

No. Frogs. And toads. And spiders.

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 16:15:03
RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 13-Nov-12 16:28:58

Sorry that it took us a while - inbox is on fire today

We most certainly do NOT only check reports a couple of times a day; we check them constantly. But how quickly we can deal with them depends on how big our inbox is - and it's been a bit humongous today

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 16:30:20

Ribbet ribbet

<can't help it. just can't>

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 16:33:23

RowanMumsnet, are you saying you were at least 6 hours behind with your inbox today?

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 16:35:32

Amillion, sometimes that happens. Why can't you accept that like everyone else?

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 16:36:37

there are other amphibians in need out there.

Greensleeves Tue 13-Nov-12 16:39:26

amillionyears, just drop it fgs, you got what you wanted

<darts out tongue>

<catches yummy bluebottle>

<belches>

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 16:42:23

I don't know why some posters continue to use mumsnet when everything about it pisses them off.

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 16:45:36

6 hours is too long for racism.

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 16:47:09

I realise there are some other posts that would take priority.
RowanMumsnet has just said that they check reports constantly.
How far down the priority is racism?

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 16:47:22

Leave her alone!

<Puts arms around rowan>

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 16:48:03

I want to look at the OP's inbox. Check her efficiency.

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 16:48:14

ooh that sounded a tad rude.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 16:48:16

I would imagine that they get snowed under fairly quickly. Seriously, let it go.

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 16:48:53

Have you not seen the twats on MN lately?

MN inbox must be full of people saying 'cor have you seen this wanker' etc.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 16:49:20

Amillion, why do you use mumsnet? It seems that all you do is whinge about it.

<Waits to be reported>

Greensleeves Tue 13-Nov-12 16:49:27

you can't just click your fingers and expect people to jump! 6 hours is a pretty short time to get a personal response to a query/complaint on a big website.

There are others, if you don't like this one....

Pagwatch Tue 13-Nov-12 16:50:38

That thread from the early hours of Sunday was there for fucking ages.

It was almost as if mnhq were quite literally asleep.

It was ace. I was on a shitstorm thread instead of hearing about it afterwards.

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 16:50:43

Now I really, really want to report some random post so I can put in the comment box 'cor have you seen this wanker'.

I am so easily amused.

And yes I am one of those divs who laughs at her own jokes. <proud>

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 16:52:02

I am intrigued

amillion are you really this incensed about frogs?

WHY?

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 13-Nov-12 16:53:10

amillionyears

I realise there are some other posts that would take priority.
RowanMumsnet has just said that they check reports constantly.
How far down the priority is racism?

We're a bit confused here, amillionyears. From what we can see, the posts you reported were personal attack - someone calling someone else "mad as a box of frogs".

Obviously, they merit deletion (for being personal attacks) but, given that the thread wasn't about French people but about the failings of Mumsnet and the person being attacked had made no mention of being French, we didn't see any racist intent in the posts.

BornSour Tue 13-Nov-12 16:54:10

If you don't like MN, why don't you hoppit?

Sorry, that was a bad croak.

Greensleeves Tue 13-Nov-12 16:54:28

lololol

so there wasn't any French connection at all?

loopier and loopiergrin

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 16:54:43

Did you type that with a straight face Helen?

Did you?

BornSour Tue 13-Nov-12 16:55:09

I love the phrase 'mad as a box of frogs'.

When I'm mad. I'm that kind of mad.

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 16:55:46

I grow increasingly fond of amillion

what else are you cross about?

usualsuspect3 Tue 13-Nov-12 16:56:01

Oh my , hehehehe grin

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 16:56:09

Um. I do think that MNHQ are likely busy after the TREMENDOUS event of the weekend and a report about someone calling French 'frogs' is likely not going to be top of the to do list.

Rude, possibly xenophobic (depending on content) - yes.

Racist - no.

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 16:56:35

would it be ok to say, "mad as a box of French people?" would that be better?

Or "mad as a patisserie of French people?"

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 16:56:49

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa

Greensleeves Tue 13-Nov-12 16:56:51

hully did she buggery!

hawhonhawhonhahwon <munches garlic>

rubyrubyruby Tue 13-Nov-12 16:57:32

"mad as a box of frogs' means - erm frogs doesn't it? Not French people confused

....... bit rascist to assume that I think.

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 16:57:43

XP with ever so diplomatic HelenMN

It's an expression. It's not racist. You fruit loop.

VirginiaDare Tue 13-Nov-12 16:58:35

It's about actual frogs, you dingbat!

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 16:58:54

Other posters, like I do, sometimes do a search if the op is new and upset about something.
The op herself said she had only made 3 previous posts.
One of those posts mentioned that her children were in the french education system.
It is going to be a bit naive to think that mentions of boxes of frogs, and frogs were not remotely to do with this.

BornSour Tue 13-Nov-12 16:58:57

gringringringringrin

There is no racism in 'mad as a box of frogs' confused

Frogs are amphibians and don't have a race.

It's a common, everyday term meaning - "goodness, look at that box of frogs being all mad and boingy like".

Greensleeves Tue 13-Nov-12 16:59:33

She called her a dingbat! Miiiiisssssss!

[snail porridge emoticon]

usualsuspect3 Tue 13-Nov-12 16:59:43

Was it on the thread where you were telling us to be careful what we said?

crazynanna Tue 13-Nov-12 17:00:21

Busted

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 17:00:23

What about cheese eating surrender monkeys?

Where do we stand on that?

BornSour Tue 13-Nov-12 17:00:38

Sorry, xpost.

I don't check anyone's posting history before I reply to a thread.

You'd have to be mad as a box of frogs to go that.

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:00:53

'Mad as a boîte de grenouille'

Do the French use the expression 'mad as a box of bulldogs' about the British?

usualsuspect3 Tue 13-Nov-12 17:00:56

Theres lots of deletions on that thread, did you get a bit carried away with the report button?

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 17:01:03

PLEASE link me to the thread

usualsuspect3 Tue 13-Nov-12 17:02:24
MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:02:48

That's daft, amillion.

If I were to search every posters history for potential to be offended, I'd never get aound to posting anything.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 17:03:04

Don't be such a dingbat. You are drawing rather spurious assumptions based on the way your own terminally offended mind works.

Croaky!

MrsCampbellBlack Tue 13-Nov-12 17:03:26

Golly mad as a box of frogs is surely a pretty tame insult isn't it?

So just to clarify we can call someone a c word but not a frog? In the non-french person sense more the likes to sit on lily pads sense?

MrsDeVere Tue 13-Nov-12 17:04:38

Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha

Really? Someone calls someone else as 'mad as a box of frogs' and you say they are being racist?

Get away.

<puts serious head on> you do realise that you are trivialising actual racism don't you?
Please stop doing that. Its annoying.
Thank you.

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 17:05:06

pag lol at 'it was ace'

It bloody WAS. I have no idea why the hell I was awake and mumsnetting at 6am on a Sunday but I was thrilled in any case.

PAG are you coming to the meet up? I can't see your name on the list.

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:05:23

I have have German family and expect everyone who posts on MN to know this and DON'T MENTION THE WAR in case I get upset. You can damn well add it to your spreadsheets.

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 17:06:27

DIES laughing.

Absolutely fucking DIES.

This is brilliant.

Helen you are a genius.

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 17:06:59

I am from the south west.

DON'T YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT THE WURZELS.

puds11 Tue 13-Nov-12 17:07:06

<wonders just how mad a box of frogs would be>

Hully your on form! grin

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:07:51

And I'm Scottish too so if you think I'll allow any kind of deep fried mars bar jokes on here, you are VERY MUCH MISTAKEN

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 17:08:14

And when you say to your children 'get up that wooden hill to Bedfordshire' do you actually realise that you are maligning those poor souls from Milton Keynes. <sadface>

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 17:08:59

I have irish relatives. Someone said I was having a paddy. Missssss!

lljkk Tue 13-Nov-12 17:09:08

I'm mad as a box of frogs.
Does MN delete posts for being personal attacks on oneself? confused

maybe it's okay since my French origins are rather tenuous to say the least.

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:10:11

Someone called me a fruitcake once.

I had her deleted, on account of me being from Dundee.

Was nasty racism, it was.

usualsuspect3 Tue 13-Nov-12 17:10:52

At least I know what amillion was on about now, when she told us to be careful what we said.

That was bugging me a bit last night.

MaryZezItsOnlyJustNovember Tue 13-Nov-12 17:11:41

Cuervo, the term "having a Paddy" has been reported as racist on here. There was a whole thread about it, since deleted as it went a bit downhill.

I distinctly remember, because I said I didn't mind it the term, and I was told that it wasn't up to me to say it wasn't racist because I was Irish confused and therefore could use it if I wanted to. But I shouldn't let other people use it because it was obviously racist [baffled]

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 17:11:50

lol at Dundee.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Tue 13-Nov-12 17:11:53

Mad as a box of frogs is a personal attack? confused

Is it ok to say Your post makes you sound as mad as a box of frogs and here's why?

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 17:12:08

Dh called me a big softy. He was blatently being sizeist. Should I Leave The Bastard?

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 17:12:25

I rememeber that Maryz.

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 17:12:58

What happens if you call someone a tosser?

Is it anti shrove Tuesday?

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 17:13:03

Maryz, really? Was the op on the thread?

FellatioNelson Tue 13-Nov-12 17:14:15

PMSL. This place is bonkers sometimes.

I think when people say 'mad as a box of frogs' they don't generally mean a box of French people.

Or do they? confused

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 17:14:38

Flat as a pancake? Those poor, poor crepes.

Crikey. MNHQ often takes days to get back to me, clearly I should be steaming mad (as opposed to realizing they have millions of users and a free site and I'd sound like a twat to assume mine was the only complaint they had to check ...).

OTOH (see how I'm slipping this in after defending you, HQ? It's not really very subtle, but ...), they did over the weekend tell me that it's not homophobic to liken gay people getting married to underage children having sex.

And I queried, and they've not replied.

I would like to point out actually, yes, it is homophobic, on account of how gay adults are not in quite the same position as children, and comparing the two is a tiny, tiny bit like implying gay adults aren't in the same position as straight adults but are rather more like children breaking the law ...

As you were.

MarshaBrady Tue 13-Nov-12 17:15:06

Very funny

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 13-Nov-12 17:15:15

OK, OK, let's not turn this into a personal attack on amillionyears. She was quite right to report to us posts that concerned her and that she thought might break our guidelines. We always welcome reports like this.

We just wanted to make it clear that, while we were obviously a bit tardy to delete those personal attacks, we would never let racist posts stand for a moment longer than we could possibly manage.

usualsuspect3 Tue 13-Nov-12 17:15:28

As bad as a box of french fancies.

usualsuspect3 Tue 13-Nov-12 17:15:48

Mad*

MaryZezItsOnlyJustNovember Tue 13-Nov-12 17:16:13

There were hundreds of people on the thread Cuervo. It went on and on and on and on. And on.

The vast majority of Irish people didn't think it was racist. But one or two did, so obviously it is unacceptable to use it hmm.

As far as I remember it was the week after the whole LeQueen dissing the entire Irish Nation, so mumsnet was rife with sniggering offended Irish grin

Tincletoes Tue 13-Nov-12 17:16:38

Stop being such silly sausages.

Apologies in advance to all you Germans out there.

TerrorNotSoFrightened Tue 13-Nov-12 17:16:59

I'm from Dundee, so that's why everyone calls me a fruitcake.
I thought it was because I'm as mad as a box of...oh careful now.

coffeeinbed Tue 13-Nov-12 17:17:34

Surely them's real frogs?
Not the proverbial variety?

then again that ought to the least of my worries here...

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 17:17:45

Did anyone watch French Fields with Anton Rogers and Julia Mackenzie? Apropos of fuck all.

It was one of my favourite shows. I think looking back it was terrible with English types setting up home in rural France 'with hilarious consequences'

BOFingSanta Tue 13-Nov-12 17:18:27

Helen grin

<girlcrush>

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 13-Nov-12 17:19:09

LRDtheFeministDragon

Crikey. MNHQ often takes days to get back to me, clearly I should be steaming mad (as opposed to realizing they have millions of users and a free site and I'd sound like a twat to assume mine was the only complaint they had to check ...).

OTOH (see how I'm slipping this in after defending you, HQ? It's not really very subtle, but ...), they did over the weekend tell me that it's not homophobic to liken gay people getting married to underage children having sex.

And I queried, and they've not replied.

I would like to point out actually, yes, it is homophobic, on account of how gay adults are not in quite the same position as children, and comparing the two is a tiny, tiny bit like implying gay adults aren't in the same position as straight adults but are rather more like children breaking the law ...

As you were.

Sorry you didn't get a reply. LRD. We'll look into that.

this place gets crazier and crazier.

FrankWippery Tue 13-Nov-12 17:20:13

Hahahahaha.

Thanks helen. You know I am only moaning - I do understand, and I do understand that HQ is sometimes busy and will make a decision quickly.

It is just a pet concern of mine.

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 17:22:36
FellatioNelson Tue 13-Nov-12 17:23:13

You are slow at deleting stuff lately though Helen. Not you personally mostly Olivia, who we love, btw but MNHQ generally. The deletions are a bit more random and the general consensus is that you bow too easily to pressure from the Professionally Offended and the over-sensitive, but as far as timing is concerned you are a bit tardy up there in your tower of late.

Are you short staffed? Is it the recession? Has Justine made huge cutbacks? Are you all just one hard pressed person masquerading as several members of staff these days? Do you have to man the boards and sweep the floors simultaneously? There is surely some explanation. Or have you all started your Christmas lunchtime drinking a bit early?

It's not on the list, amillion?

Not that I think wiki is definitive, just not sure what you are getting at.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 17:28:12

amillion - "frog" is listed there but not "mad as a box of..."

It really, really isn't racist.

MaryZezItsOnlyJustNovember Tue 13-Nov-12 17:29:21

LRD, that is one of my real hates - have you heard that NI twat going on about homosexuality being against God and akin to paedophilia?

He is a complete and utter arse

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 17:29:22

Million

Engage brain, matey.

seeker Tue 13-Nov-12 17:29:52

Calling a French person a frog isn't racist. It might be rude and possibly xenophobic, but it's not racist.

The expression "mad as a box of frogs" isn't anything to do with French people. And surely isn't bad enough to be a personal attack? Ye Gods- that 's positively complimentary compared to some of the things people get called on here!

coffeeinbed Tue 13-Nov-12 17:29:54

The usage of frog is completely different in your link.
Mad as a box of frogs is something else.

Lovecat Tue 13-Nov-12 17:31:51

I'm actually more upset that something as mild as 'mad as a box of frogs' got deleted as a personal attack...

What is happening to the 'fuck off to the far side of fuck and when you get there fuck off some more' MN that I know and love? Are we really all such sensitive little flowers these days?

And OP, racist? Really ?

PoppyAmex Tue 13-Nov-12 17:31:57

Oh interesting list o Wiki.

Curiously a lot of Australian-Chinese refer to themselves as ABC "Australian Born Chinese".

Lovecat Tue 13-Nov-12 17:32:18

x-posts with Seeker smile

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:32:23

Yes, but 'mad as a box of frogs' refers to a container containing amphibians, which would likely be rather irate at being kept in a cramped space and would hop about and make the container shake and jump.

It has absolutely no connection to the French, and is neither xenophobic or racist.

If the comment had been along the lines of 'the fecking frogs should feck back off across the channel', then I would have conceded your point.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 17:32:25

Mad as a box of frogs is generally used semi-affectionately anyway.

For the sake of fuck! I sometimes say that so and so is as mad as a bicycle. Should I expect the evil eye from from Halfords?

I haven't, maryzed, and this wasn't a comparison to paedophilia but to underage children having sex - but I think we feel the same.

Gay adults are adults, making adult decisions about sex. To compare them to children or (worse) to abusers is appalling and it is homophobia.

Btw, I think calling a French person a 'frog' is rude (I'll sideskip the debate over xenophobia/racism), in the same way calling someone a 'paki' is rude and unacceptable.

PoppyAmex Tue 13-Nov-12 17:34:19

From the list of ethnic slurs, I can be called this:

Doesn't strike me as offensive at all!

Dago
(UK and Commonwealth) refers to Italians, Spaniards, or Portuguese, possibly derived from the Spanish name, "Diego,"[60] or a corruption of the title Hidalgo (member of the Gentry, from Spanish > hijo de algo "son of someone [important]"). 2) (US) An Italian or person of Italian descent.[61]

OatyBeatie Tue 13-Nov-12 17:34:58

None of the words on that wiki list should be used at all on MN. Never say Pepsi, or skip. And as for the Pom Bear emoticon, that image offends me as an English person and would get you arrested under the malicious communications act if you lived in Kent.

PoppyAmex Tue 13-Nov-12 17:35:01

Sorry, I'm still intrigued with the ethnic slur list blush

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:35:14

I see that 'hun' is listed on that Wiki link.

So, if anyone should call me 'hun', I shall be asking for it to be deleted.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 17:35:15

Froggy isn't in the same league as paki, surely? Not that it has ANYTHING to do with "mad as a bunch of..".

PoppyAmex Tue 13-Nov-12 17:36:02

Or a Hun! (Not NetMums)

Hun
(US and UK) 1) A derogatory term for Germans, especially German soldiers; popular during World War

BornSour Tue 13-Nov-12 17:36:27

If someone went onto the Mental Health boards and commented that someone was as mad as a box of frogs, then yeah, I'd report that as it would be a bit twattish.

But away from that context I'm disappointed that it was seen as a personal attack.

I think they are similar jenai? I don't know and I don't want to offend, but I think of 'frog' as being a rude and derogatory word for someone who's French.

I accept the history is different so there is a much nastier context to the other insult, and that does make a huge difference. But I wouldn't chose to use either.

BOFingSanta Tue 13-Nov-12 17:37:10

Lovecat, I tend to agree. I love the phrase 'mad as a box of frogs'. Surely it's not bad enough to delete? What next? Can we say 'silly sausage'?

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:37:12

Poppy,
I am fascinated by that list too. Did you know that 'jerry can' was from the word 'jerry' ie derogatory for German.

BornSour Tue 13-Nov-12 17:37:17

Ok Mme, hun.

EuroShagmore Tue 13-Nov-12 17:37:38

Mad as a box of frogs has nothing at all to do with the French. It has to do with imagining what a box of frogs would be like. Pretty mad, I think we can all agree.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 17:37:56

I made an hilarious joke about pram Huns once. Which referred to my ENORMOUS German perambulator. <bans self>

Hun is xenophobic though.

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:39:35

Jenai/LRD
I don't know. I would have 'paki' as worse than 'frog' but have no actual reason for that, other than I would guess that people from France are less likely to be racially abused than those of Pakistan/British heritage. Which isn't a good reason at all actually.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 17:40:23

I don't think so LRD. The historical context is absolutely key, imo. Frog might be rude, but it's not hateful.

PoppyAmex Tue 13-Nov-12 17:40:30

MmeLindor it's interesting, isn't it?

I'm horrified that Skippy is an ethnic slur, it's so endearing.

On the other hand, got to laugh at the not-so-subtle Scottish "Orange Bastard" - I mean, even if you remove all the religious connotations it's just not nice is it?

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 17:40:37

I believe that the 2 posters meant it in a racially offensive manner.
I reported it early this morning to MNHQ.
And twice more later.

They only deleted the 3 posts by 2 seperate posters when I started this thread.
Maybe they were going to get round to it eventually.
Who knows?

TidyDancer Tue 13-Nov-12 17:40:53

Seriously?! FFS. Racist my arse.

OTOH, I have quite enjoyed this thread. grin

That's sort of what I was trying to say about context, Mme, but rather less eloquently. Thank you.

But I agree with others, this is not relevant to the OP! 'Box of frogs' has nothing to do with the French!

usualsuspect3 Tue 13-Nov-12 17:42:26

I think you are being very unfair on the posters who had their posts deleted.

I don't believe they meant it in a racist way for one minute.

jenai - I take your point.

I would use 'frog' to refer to the French but I think it's fair enough to say lots of things are offensive without saying they all have to be equally offensive - that's how I'll think of it anyhow.

I don't at all mean to deny the context and I do think it matters.

MooncupGoddess Tue 13-Nov-12 17:42:55

I see 'frog' as quite a mild, even affectionate term, just as in ye olden days apparently the French used to refer to Brits as 'les rosbifs'. Depends to some extent on the way it's used, of course ('fuck off, frog twat' would be bad; 'of course the frogs are obsessed with cheese' less so). Definitely not with the same connotations as Chink/Paki.

BornSour Tue 13-Nov-12 17:42:58

Maybe you should have asked the posters if they meant it in a racist way before assuming that it was?

ICutMyFootOnOccamsRazor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:42:58

So just for clarification, is it ok to keep French people in boxes or not? confused

BOFingSanta Tue 13-Nov-12 17:43:00

And to be serious for a moment, 'frog' in reference to the French can certainly be jocular, and would only be rude and hostile if used in a rude and hostile way. It's not racist, as the French aren't a 'race', nor is it commonly daubed on vandalised shops, nor yelled during the course of a racist attack. It has nothing like the ugly history of words like P--- or N----r.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 17:43:04

I dunno, froggies/ros-bifs - my French friends and I have referred to each other and themselves as such for years.Maybe that makes it OK, maybe it doesn't.

I don't think either party necessarily reclaimed the terms from their oppressors or anything, in the way "queer" or "nigger" has been confused

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:43:10

oh, I would have thought Orange Bastard would be a person who has imbibed too much Irn Bru

I remember being incredibly offended by my mum commenting on the 'krauts' at the Munich football match not long after I met DH. I had misheard, she said 'crowds', and couldn't understand my massive strop.

MaryZezItsOnlyJustNovember Tue 13-Nov-12 17:43:54

There are a load of words for Irish people on that list.

Most of which would only be used by one Irish person to another (from a different background). So I would presume they aren't racist, though some can be used in a hateful way.

Actuallylookingok Tue 13-Nov-12 17:44:48

Perhaps..to quote Blackadder, the thread should be rewritten to say " He's mad! He's mad. He's madder than Mad Jack McMad, the winner of this year's Mr Madman competition. ".

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:45:38

No wonder MN are struggling to keep up with the reports of offensive posts, if they are being held up with this kind of nonsense.

Sorry, amillion, but I think you should apologise for wasting MNHQ's time and for starting this thread accusing them of allowing racism to stand.

That is funny Mme.

The 'this isn't a race' thing doesn't work for me TBH - race is a shite made-up construct anyway. I reckon if someone gets upset, we all know to stop using a term, right? I mean, anything for an easy life.

BarbecuedBillygoats Tue 13-Nov-12 17:46:18
usualsuspect3 Tue 13-Nov-12 17:46:54

I think she should apologise to the posters she has accused of racism as well.

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:48:18

Husband was miffed when he was told that in Liechtenstein they refer to the Germans as MOFs.

Menschen Ohne Freunde

(People Without Friends)

It is used in an affectionate way, and I was very much amused by it.

Well said usual.

IMO that is one of the nice things about MN, that if you get something wrong by misunderstanding and making an idiot of yourself, you apologize and move on.

Whatever we reckon about other terminology, 'mad as a box of frogs' quite obviously ain't racist!

Ah. So we can use the word cunt but not frog? Frog as in the creature?

Ok. That's perfect. Just so I know.

Where do we stand on wankbadger? Is that offensive to badgers? Or a particular ethnicity I am unaware of?

Just so I don't fuck up and racially insult someone by accident.

I tell you what million if you want to see actual racism you should come to where I live. Ds1 can't walk the dog at night because he gets stopped by the police. He also was called the n word whilst playing football last week.

That's actual racism.

Mad as a box of frogs is ludicrous.

BOFingSanta Tue 13-Nov-12 17:50:36

Not really, LRD. I know that race is a construct, but if a group is not deemed as being part of that construct, it just isn't, whether some people disagree with the construct or not. And I don't agree either that somebody taking offence gets to dictate the language of others. By all means be guided by politeness, and don't seek to cause offence, but it simply isn't workable or reasonable to expect, for example, people to stop saying 'oh my god' or swearing or whatever, just because some people dislike it.

Actuallylookingok Tue 13-Nov-12 17:51:51

I don't think anyone should stand on wankbadgers! I will immediately subscribe to the RSPCWB to stop this unkind practice.

ScrambledSmegs Tue 13-Nov-12 17:52:10

amillion you've misunderstood what 'mad as a box of frogs' means. It's nothing to do with xenophobia (NOT racism). A box of amphibians would probably be pretty mad.

However, personal attack = bad = deletion. So all sorted.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 17:52:48

amillion have you accepted that you might have had good intentions, but that you were wrong?

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 17:54:42

Northern Monkey
(UK) (See also Southern Fairy) used as a pejorative in the south of England, relating to the supposed stupidity and lack of sophistication of those in the north of the country.[143] In some cases this has been adopted in the north of England, with a pub in Leeds even taking the name 'The Northern Monkey'.[144]

I like this one. Sorry, am distracted by this list.

SoupDragon Tue 13-Nov-12 17:57:08

Mad as a box of frogs racist! Hilarious!bgrin

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 18:00:33

Amillion, are you going to use your mind-reading powers for good or evil?

I think you should apologise to mnhq. How dare you? Yes, you should report posts for PAs etc, but you should not start a thread accusing mnhq of supporting racism. It was nothing of the sort. Grow up, or find a forum that irritates you less.

FancyPuffin Tue 13-Nov-12 18:00:51

And the award for most tenuous link to racism goes to..........

Also amillion are you going to apologise for your personal attack on HQ accusing them of loving racism or whatever your point was?

Bof - yep, see your point. I'm probably overthinking.

But, if you can't overthink on a thread like this, where can you?! grin

Apologies for being daft.

BOFingSanta Tue 13-Nov-12 18:02:39

True grin

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 18:11:01

I had a great long dispute with amillion once that ran in a similar vein, can't remember the subject but certainly similar...tenacious wrong end of stickness and inability to see it.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 18:13:05

But hully, how are you to know what you really mean?

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 18:13:43

I consult the entrails meself

FellatioNelson Tue 13-Nov-12 18:15:22

There is so much to update my spreadsheet with this week I can hardly keep up with myself.

StrangeGlue Tue 13-Nov-12 18:16:22

what What WHAT?!?

"mad of a box of frogs" is a joke way of saying hopping mad!

Dago however is definitely racist!

scottishmummy Tue 13-Nov-12 18:17:21

million,you sees busy day a busy inbox can certainly take 6hr response
do you work?do you recall long to do list
you're being bit feetie stumpy here at not getting pronto resolution.immediacy issues?

VivaLeBeaver Tue 13-Nov-12 18:17:36

You lot are as mad as a bucket of spiders!

missymoomoomee Tue 13-Nov-12 18:19:14

One of my daughters is called Abbie, every time I say her name I am being racist according to the ethnic slurs link confused I won't mention DD2s nickname is Bananas for fear of being forever branded as a racist

VivaLeBeaver Tue 13-Nov-12 18:19:31

There's a mumsnetter whose nn is NorthernMonkey. I met her at the weekend. Maybe she should be deleted for being racist! wink

MooncupGoddess Tue 13-Nov-12 18:21:04

LOL at 'feetie stumpy' - for a moment I wondered if this was an obscure ethnic slur before working it out grin

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 18:22:18

Mmelindor should change her name, so she doesn't offend lactose-intolerant posters.

scottishmummy Tue 13-Nov-12 18:23:44

utterly risible and attention seeking to be so professionally offended

FellatioNelson Tue 13-Nov-12 18:23:55

MN is going through one of those reeaallly weird phases at the moment.

SoupDragon Tue 13-Nov-12 18:24:03

Is the phrase "a face like a bulldog pissing on nettles" racist against the British?

IamtheZombie Tue 13-Nov-12 18:29:12

"Mad as a box of frogs" according to Urban Dictionary:

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mad%20as%20a%20box%20of%20frogs

Zombie is another one who thinks MNHQ are due an apology.

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Tue 13-Nov-12 18:29:46

Ha ha ha!!! I was also confused as to why amillion told people to be careful on that thread blush

Ah, if you had just shared, we could have saved all this, bless.

I honestly think she genuinely thought it was racist and not a well known saying, such as mad as a hatter (which comes from when hat makers used chemicals and were permanently high by the way!)

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 18:29:56

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Tue 13-Nov-12 18:31:11

What??? What ethnic slurs? Tell us what they were, cos I read that thread, and didn't see any.

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 18:31:45

I dont think I have much more to say on the matter.
If other people dont agree with me, so be it.
That is up to them to make their own minds up.

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Tue 13-Nov-12 18:32:14

I now retract my fluffy statement above giving you the benefit of the doubt, you just couldn't let it lie (vic n bob do it much better)

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 18:32:26

Tufty is actually a poster girl for UKIP so you could be right about her to be fair.

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Tue 13-Nov-12 18:32:34

Flounce?

IamtheZombie Tue 13-Nov-12 18:33:22

Oh. My. God.

<goes to lie down in a darkened room>

Mad as a bag of cut snakes.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 18:33:57

here is an explanation of the saying. and first, how on earth can you know that other posters made the same long-winded spurious links, and secondly, how dare you name two posters (who both did the same? wow) as fucking racist. appalling.

you are a disgrace.

BOFingSanta Tue 13-Nov-12 18:34:32

That's quite some accusation there. Is there really any need to accuse named posters of racism when you might have just got the wrong end of the stick?

LadyBeagle Tue 13-Nov-12 18:34:49

FFS Million.
Wasn't it you on another thread that was considering suing MN for duty of care because a poster complained she was being bullied, after a bit of mild pisstaking.
I don't think MN is for you, seriously.

TimothyTumblespring Tue 13-Nov-12 18:35:24

I HAVE NEVER BEEN MORE OFFENDED THAN I AM NOW

Milton Keynes is is Buckinghamshire, not fucking Bedfordshire. Fucks sake.

grin

ScrambledSmegs Tue 13-Nov-12 18:35:37

Oh dear. IT IS NOT RACISM.

Mad as a box of frogs is just one of many animal-based sayings, i.e. mad as a March hare, mad as a sack of weasels etc etc.

You're really making yourself look very silly here. And stubborn. And quite frankly very rude to MNHQ.

Surely it couldn't be an attempt to get deleted to hide the shame of being mistaken? Surely?

RandallPinkFloyd Tue 13-Nov-12 18:36:00

We say mad as cheese. I think that should still be ok yes?

That said I'm welsh, so when the "herds of sheep" accusations start I get slick with the horn properly riled.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 18:36:07

BOF, because amillion is all-knowing and wise. she knows our own minds better than we, and we all mn the same way as her.

FellatioNelson Tue 13-Nov-12 18:37:14

No, no, mad as cheese is not ok at all. Don't you know the French are famous for cheese? angry FFS, just leave the French alone already.

Really not on to name posters when you misunderstood. angry

HullyEastergully Tue 13-Nov-12 18:39:52

But she hasn't misunderstood. She stands by what she thinks despite 8 million people telling her it isn't right.

Gotta admire the sheer doggedness.

ScrambledSmegs Tue 13-Nov-12 18:40:15

You know, there's less shame in graciously admitting you made a mistake and moving on, than pointlessly hammering on about a misconception.

badgeroncaffeine Tue 13-Nov-12 18:41:18

Do you think in France they report people calling English "rosbif" of whatever stupid, tragic, asinine name they have for us?

Yep, but she's wrong.

Btw, is it frog entrails you're sacrificing?

This is you, right? www.deepthought.org/~efulton/sibyl.html

ScrambledSmegs Tue 13-Nov-12 18:41:51

She's very tenacious, I'll give her that.

Bloody wrong though.

RandallPinkFloyd Tue 13-Nov-12 18:43:10

Balls, je suis désolé, j'adore la fromage grin

(amillion it's ok to get the wrong end of the stick but really not ok to accuse named people of racism, really not ok)

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Tue 13-Nov-12 18:43:25

amillion honestly, I remember you saying 'the MN elite' all PM each other and FB eanch other to 'pile in' on threads, I really do think you take all this way to seriously, and are ever so slightly paranoid?

Could have had a laugh over your mistake But you are clearly as mad as a .......... bicycle?

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 18:44:15

Apropos of fuck all again, you can genuinely upset people in the forest of dean by calling them bear killers (they hung a bear back in the olden days because the foresters murdered someone, or something)

PickledFanjoCat Tue 13-Nov-12 18:45:48

Mad as a nail.

Fucking hell someone tell me this is not serious?

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 18:46:07

Foresters thought the bear murdered someone.

Oh balls to it I need a cup of tea.

Ta for the PM alien, hope I'm not late to the game.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 18:47:26

People in the Forest of Dean are known to be a little odd.

MooncupGoddess Tue 13-Nov-12 18:49:24

Gosh, really Morris? I wonder when that was. Don't they have fierce ravening hordes of wild boar in the Forest of Dean now?

Mintyy Tue 13-Nov-12 18:49:30

You simply need to accept you were wrong and apologise amillion. You really must. You misunderstood but you were wrong and it is dishonorable to accuse other posters of something as serious as racism just to save face.

BOFingSanta Tue 13-Nov-12 18:50:41

LRD grin

BOFingSanta Tue 13-Nov-12 18:51:21

Spot on, Mintyy.

IamtheZombie Tue 13-Nov-12 18:51:32

How gracious of you to accept Rowan's apology, OP.

How nasty of you to publicly name those who used a common phrase that you didn't understand and to accuse them of posting "ethnic slurs" just because you didn't understand what they meant.

How deeply offensive of you to continue to insinuate that MNHQ have done anything wrong in the way they have dealt with this.

It is appalling.

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Tue 13-Nov-12 18:52:19

Pickled 'fraid so

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 18:53:24

On the subject of west country legend, I so hope the Devizes moonraker story is true. It's ace.

MrsDeVere Tue 13-Nov-12 18:53:30

Are the French counted as 'ethnics'?

Who knew.

What a load of crap. Honestly. I am usually first in the line to defend others against accusations of 'pc gorn maaaad' and 'over sensitivity' 'professionally offended' bollocks.

But this is ridiculous and to call the phrase racism is offensive in itself.

Obviously you are a person who can only think of French people when you see the word 'frog'. Which says more about you than anyone else.

Perhaps you are just bored and wanted to see if you could wind the lefties up into a frenzy of agreement with you.

Epic fail on that count

AllYoursBabooshka Tue 13-Nov-12 18:54:17

I'm baffled.

Do you always associate the word "Frog" with French people? Because you are the only one who has linked the two. The Muppets must horrify you.

I think you are completely out of line naming two posters and accusing them of racism with no proof and even after so many people have explained the phrase to you.

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, It's about facts and the fact here is that the saying "Mad As A Box Of Frogs" refers to a bunch of amphibians being pissed off because they are in a small confined space, Not the French!

Apologise.

What's the moonraker story, jenai?

HoneyDragon Tue 13-Nov-12 18:56:45

Timothy Buckinghamshire don't like admitting to Milton Keynes. Ssssh.

TidyDancer Tue 13-Nov-12 18:57:17

I actually thought this was a bit of a joke tbh.

Mad as a box of frogs is not fucking racist.

Some people are utterly mad.

scottishmummy Tue 13-Nov-12 18:58:08

i recall the mn duty of duty of care thread,the bloody minded refusal to listen
steadfastly asserting mn had duty care,and hurrumphing it would result in prosecution
and resolutely not accepting any posts to contrary

PickledFanjoCat Tue 13-Nov-12 18:58:44

Of course not.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've seen on mumsnet to date.

You are being very unfair a million.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 18:58:47

Courtesy of Wiki, LRD:

"some local people had hidden contraband barrels of French brandy from customs officers in a village pond. While trying to retrieve it at night, they were caught by the revenue men, but explained themselves by pointing to the moon's reflection and saying they were trying to rake in a round cheese.

The excise men, thinking they were simple yokels, laughed at them and went on their way. But, as the story goes, it was the moonrakers who had the last laugh. In the words of an anonymous Wiltshireman who recounted the story to writer Arthur Granville Bradley: “ Zo the excizeman ’as ax’d ’n the question ’ad his grin at ’n,…but they’d a good laugh at ’ee when ’em got whoame the stuff.”"

The Brandy being French is purely coinicidental btw grin

NigellasGuest Tue 13-Nov-12 18:58:47

can I take this opportunity to stand up for Boxes, as a race?
especially cardboard ones which are becoming more of a minority.
Shame on the Box racists!!

BarbecuedBillygoats Tue 13-Nov-12 18:59:11

Ive just come across the delightful phrase
Up and down like frogs in a bucket

So thank you millions. Without this thread I couldn't have added that slur phrase to my knowledge.

PickledFanjoCat Tue 13-Nov-12 18:59:32

I told someone ds has a frog in his throat earlier.

<hands self in>

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 19:00:03

Oh I like that, goats. And it's possibly nicer in polite company that "like a whore's drawers".

ArtexMonkey Tue 13-Nov-12 19:00:28

Oh lawks amillion.

Why do you post on mn when its policies and posters clearly annoy you so much?

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 19:00:49

I'll say it again, I dont understand why a poster who dislikes mumsnet and the way that MNHQ run things enough to whinge about it constantly stays here. this might help

BarbecuedBillygoats Tue 13-Nov-12 19:01:07

No nigella
Boxes really are as bad as everyone makes out

ScrambledSmegs Tue 13-Nov-12 19:01:51

Was that the same poster, scottishmummy?

If so, I guess we can all point out the facts till the end of time, and still amillion just won't get it.

IvorHughJanusAndABulgingSack Tue 13-Nov-12 19:01:53

I have spent the whole day running around after an obnoxious, sickly, pox infested toddler. I so wish I'd been here instead. This thread is marvellous. My girl crush on Hully gets deeper and more embarassing by the day

NigellasGuest Tue 13-Nov-12 19:02:54

I still say we need a Box Inclusion Policy.
To shut them up, if nothing else

Ohhhh ... I love that, jenai.

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Tue 13-Nov-12 19:03:47

Wt ACTUAL F?!

You can't say mad as a box of frogs any more? But I AM as mad as a box of frogs.

And any jokes about Essex girls and I'll 'av ya!

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 19:04:10

OP, I mean this in the nicest possible way. But don't you think you constantly get the wrong end of the stick? I remember you accusing us of bullying Tee for hours even after she came and told you it was a joke she fully understood and participated in. And another thread where you had some MN Royalty conspiracy.

And now accusing Tufty and whoever else of racism on ^ those grounds? really?. tbh I can't believe MNHQ deleted 'mad as a box of frogs' but for you STILL to be banging on about it... <boggles>

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 19:04:28

oh fuck is milton keynes in bucks not beds?

What a fail.

I do absolutely love your name, rudolph. Not relevant, but I keep thinking of saying it on serious threads where it wouldn't be appropriate.

BarbecuedBillygoats Tue 13-Nov-12 19:06:06

Now Nigella
You're just not thinking outside the box... es

LtEveDallas Tue 13-Nov-12 19:06:33

Bloody hell. Mad as a box of frogs is one of my favourite sayings. I use it all the time (but we don't talk about the time I told the doc I liked her because she was mad as a box of frogs and she replied 'actually, yes, I am bipolar" <<cringe>>)

Amillionyears, seriously, you don't like MN. You have made that so very obvious. You complain about everything, you complain about MNHQ - who we actually LIKE - all the time.

Why do you stay?

There are a million and one other websites, a million and two other forums. Why do you stay here if you hate it so much?

You run the risk of becoming an object of ridicule, why would you put yourself through that?

BeerTricksPott3r Tue 13-Nov-12 19:09:23

Some posters just love the attention, even when it's negative.

scottishmummy Tue 13-Nov-12 19:11:00

duty of care saying I recall that thread was active on it,it's been suggested op was too
don't recall name,but it was hard going to try reason with skewed logic

badgeroncaffeine Tue 13-Nov-12 19:11:47

Another crazy debate...very funny.

MooncupGoddess Tue 13-Nov-12 19:14:08

Thank God amillion hasn't come across the phrase 'like boiling a frog' yet.

Seriously, I think she really does mean well, but is prone to odd idees fixes. <uses French term to demonstrate solidarity with neighbours across the Channel>

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 19:15:12

Thank you LRD. I may have to change it if people think I am poor AnyF grin

HecatePropylaea Tue 13-Nov-12 19:17:47

"Mad as a box of frogs" is racist?

I always thought the saying was about actual frogs. you know, ribbit ribbit. Packed in a box. Hopping mad. (sorry about that grin )

And are the french a race? as in an ethnicity?

I mean, they're a nation, but they're not a race. So even if it was about french people, it still wouldn't be racism. It'd be xenophobia.

but I honestly struggle to believe that the saying refers to actual french people.

I suppose if you put a load of french people in a box they'd be fairly perturbed about it.

As perturbed as a container of french people.

Having seen the link, I still don't get it. Someone posts the 1944022944643390229th thread this month about how they don't like mumsnet. Someone says they're as mad as a box of frogs. And this isn't saying they're being a bit bonkers but is actually a calculated slur on their nationality. Which isn't mentioned on the thread. But apparently at some point in the past, they've mentioned their children are in the french education system. Which means that these people had read the OP and then searched the OPs other posts, noted this and made a decision to choose a euphemism for battyness that mentions an offensive word for the french.

Really?

Isn't it more likely that they just meant it how everyone else means it when they say it?

HoneyDragon Tue 13-Nov-12 19:18:42

I fucking luffs your Xmas hoverererer I does Rudy

Sunnywithachanceofshowers Tue 13-Nov-12 19:21:16

We definitely need a rolling-eyes smiley. A box of frogs = racist? <snorts in an unladylike fashion>

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 19:21:36

It is so batty.
Oh wait, is that racist? <slaps self>

Ta muchly Honey. I shall enter the Festive Hoverererer comp.

I've seen AF posting, but I'm afraid I don't know who you are. I'm sure you are equally lovely, though.

ScrambledSmegs Tue 13-Nov-12 19:24:57

Sadly for anyone who has made intelligent, well-reasoned posts on this thread, the boxgate OP has done this sort of thing before and never admitted fallibility.

Funny really. It's almost like the OP enjoys starting a fight and never backing down.

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 19:25:20

It's me, SuePurblybilt <awaits the polite, 'oh lovely <no clue>' grin
See the hoverererer?

Narked Tue 13-Nov-12 19:25:59

OK, shall we have a MN pool on what's going to set off the next complaint?

I'll take mentioning gingernuts on a biscuit thread to someone of the auburn haired persuasion.

WildThong Tue 13-Nov-12 19:26:40

One of the posters on that thread is called Alberto Frog

Im reporting her..

Slubberdegullion Tue 13-Nov-12 19:26:59

I've seen a big box of frogs, well they were cane toads but same difference. They weren't mad at all, just mostly sullen.

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 19:28:06

Are cane toads the ones that you lick?

Narked Tue 13-Nov-12 19:28:27

Showing this to someone from Hartlepool?

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 19:29:19

JEALOUS of RudolphUcker - what a brilliant name.

BeerTricksPott3r Tue 13-Nov-12 19:29:19

Hooting at the Monkey Hanger now, Narked grin

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 19:29:45

there is a certain toad that turns blue if you are pregnant and wee on it.

troofact.

Narked Tue 13-Nov-12 19:29:48

No. They're the non-native ones in Australia that kill the local wildlife - they're poisonous.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Tue 13-Nov-12 19:30:03

No no no. Alberto was a seriously clever frog. He conducted an orchestra and liked milkshake.

Oh. Got it.

I am slow.

blush

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 19:30:26

Aha, I will AVOID the licking then.
Perhaps I was thinking of another toad altogether.

Narked Tue 13-Nov-12 19:30:45

I'd love to know how they found out which one Blameit grin

SoupDragon Tue 13-Nov-12 19:31:12

If other people dont agree with me, so be it.

As far as i can see, no one agrees with you. That should tell you something.

MotherfuckingMorrisMan Tue 13-Nov-12 19:31:19

Lol at sullen frogs.

Slubberdegullion Tue 13-Nov-12 19:31:32

Only for dares Rudolph.

Just remembered I also collected a vivarium of frogs at Dunham Massey and they weren't mad either. National Trust frogs though so no suprise.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 19:32:14

maybe it was a competition, the one to hit the toad wins a pineapple.

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 19:32:28

Where do we stand on 'mad as a wet hen'?
Racist? Or just non-specific oppressive?
Bear in mind my children were once eggs.

Narked Tue 13-Nov-12 19:33:05

Your toads were probably sullen because pregnant women kept randomly weeing on them.

Slubberdegullion Tue 13-Nov-12 19:33:22

yy you can lick them, freebie hallucinogenic or something but bugger me if they arent the ugliest thing you ever did see, and HUGE bastards they are too.

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Tue 13-Nov-12 19:34:47

Yeah, Caine toads, make you trip, they weren't sullen they were high!

High as a box of frogs grin

Disclaimer: actual frogs mentioned, not French hippies.

Slubberdegullion Tue 13-Nov-12 19:35:08

If you tried to pee on a cane toad you vulva would pucker up in horror, they are that ugly.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Tue 13-Nov-12 19:36:30

Did anyone ever actually establish what the OP on the other thread wanted?

HoneyDragon Tue 13-Nov-12 19:36:49

The local vets and ourselves thought my old Labrador was having repeated strokes. But making a miracle recovery each time.

Turned out she simply had a chronic frog licking habit.

HoneyDragon Tue 13-Nov-12 19:37:53

Apologies to any French Canadians for mentioning frogs and Labradors btw.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Tue 13-Nov-12 19:38:21

And maybe cane toads have evolved to be that ugly in an attempt to stop people weeing on them.

Narked Tue 13-Nov-12 19:38:27

I just checked on Wiki shock

'Reportedly, some dogs in Australia, where the toads have become a major pest, have learned to lick the toads for pleasure.'

Those toads, coming over there, corrupting your pets...

A few things:

1) Accusing and naming posters as being racist as the OP has done is not on, have reported. 6 hours to delete would be fine with me smile

2) I say 'mad as a box of frogs. I also say 'mad as toast'. Is there anybody English born and bred (geddit) who wants to snarl about that?

3) amillion - tbh you've been really rude to HQ and basically everybody. Would you like to kiss and make up? I would advise a name and attitude change if so.

badgeroncaffeine Tue 13-Nov-12 19:39:08

Are you lot still at it? Seriously...get a hobby.

HoneyDragon Tue 13-Nov-12 19:40:31

At what? confused

Narked Tue 13-Nov-12 19:42:06

Did you know some toads turn blue if pregnant women wee on them? Did you know dogs lick toads for recreational purposes?

I've learnt something today.

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 19:42:09

poster on thread says to other poster on thread - get a hobby confused
<fail>

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Tue 13-Nov-12 19:42:38

empress the Op on the original, ever so offensive thread, just posted to say Mn'ers were dull, middle class and meh! and i quote, so she was a charmer as well!!

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Tue 13-Nov-12 19:42:57

Blimey, I just thought.... If MN is racist against anyone, it's zombies.

Maybe instead of coming up with plans to destroy them we should be trying to make friends.

This thread has brought to mind the time when I was accused of being racist.

A teaching colleague told me that a student had grumbled about me as he arrived to her lesson late.

I'd seen the lad dawdling and chivvied him along by asking him where he should be. He protested that he was going to my colleague's lesson right now and I'd replied "I should cocoa".

Alas, he thought I was calling him 'Cocoa' shock

Such fun! grin

Narked Tue 13-Nov-12 19:44:11

Mainly that if I move to Australia the dogs are getting soft muzzles.

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Tue 13-Nov-12 19:44:16

There's something in the water, maybe it's toads? Would make a lot of sense out of MN lately.

WildThong Tue 13-Nov-12 19:45:43

So, licking something ugly for pleasure, hmmmmm
wink

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Tue 13-Nov-12 19:46:07

Alien yes, lovely, wasn't she?

I got most of the way through the thread and just couldn't work out what she was so pissed off about.

Pudgy2011 Tue 13-Nov-12 19:48:12

Jesus Titty Fucking Christ.... <roars with laughter>

This is by far, the best thread I've ever read and I'm only gutted that I live 5 hours behind GMT and missed the highlights.

I keep imagining the OP sitting at home clutching her pearls wailing "will nobody think of the frogs!!!"

Fucking weirdo. Do you have a life and/or job other than being professionally offended?

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 19:49:22

amillion
I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for misunderstanding, but now you have so graciously accepted Rowan's apology and then gone on to name the posters who used a totally normal and acceptable turn of phrase as being racist, I am really truly appalled.

That is absolutely Not On.

I don't think that MN is for you, tbh.

Chubfuddler Tue 13-Nov-12 19:49:43

MNHQ have deleted me for saying someone was mad as a box of frogs. I think they feel the same way about it as they do about loon another of my favourite slightly affectionate ribbings which isn't allowed

Ok ok so do I offend the Teddy Bears when I accuse someone of being "a sandwich sort of a picnic?"

<awaits deletion>

Oh to hell with it- YOU, OP, ARE A FOOL (offensive to desserts as well).

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 19:51:13

I love hypnotoad from futurama.

TiggyD Tue 13-Nov-12 19:51:53

The OP is literally indescribably mad.

badgeroncaffeine Tue 13-Nov-12 19:52:21

Erm no RudolphUcker, I'm not on the thread talking discussing nonsense. There is a huge difference.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 19:53:15

I like talking nonsense. thats my hobby.

its ace.

and it means I have a sense of humour.

badgeroncaffeine Tue 13-Nov-12 19:53:15

talking and discussing
Some here really do need a hobby, badly and desperately.

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 19:53:16

"I'm not on the thread talking discussing nonsense."

Oh but I beg to differ.

<watches it sail over badger's head>

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 19:54:53

oh, that reminds me of posters who rant about mums using mn in the day...

ummmm, on mumsnet.

in the day.

Portofino Tue 13-Nov-12 19:55:06

Cor, last weekend dd and I went to see Asterix et Obelix - sorry the film is in French. It was absolutely chock full of cliches about the British (and the Romans and the Vikings). And it was really funny. A lovely touch was the female lead wearing a knitted version of Pippa Middleton's dress.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Tue 13-Nov-12 19:55:35

Is wankbadger offensive to badgers?

Pagwatch Tue 13-Nov-12 19:56:38

Hmmm
Which is worse? Talking nonsense on a thread? Or joining a thread to tell others that what they are talking about is nonsense?

I think it's a tie.

Portofino Tue 13-Nov-12 19:57:02

Was I offended by mild pisstaking of our British ways? Um no. I have a sense of humour....

badgeroncaffeine Tue 13-Nov-12 19:57:18

RudolphUcker, beg to differ all you like. D'oh...

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 19:57:23

Shurrup Pag, get a desperately needed hobby can't you?

LadyBeagle Tue 13-Nov-12 19:58:29

The op was also very vocal in support on the thread about an Op's friends boyfriend that wanted to eat her, afair, and was rather rude to mnhq' Helen I think.Boxes of frogs are sane compared to her.

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 19:59:14

How about joining thread to tell others they are talking nonsense, whilst talking absolute gibberish oneself? That surely tips the balance.

badgeroncaffeine Tue 13-Nov-12 19:59:30

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans
That is so funny! I mean, I know it's about me..but I can still see how truly hilarious that is!

Erm, actually, no...oh dear!!

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 20:00:52

RudolphUcker
I thought you were AF. Hover doodah doesn't work when you are reading on iPhone so I never noticed.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:01:23

ummm, badger, we had discussed wankbadgers earlier in the thread.

oh dear.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:01:59

is it time of the month <head tilit>

badgeroncaffeine Tue 13-Nov-12 20:02:00

RudolphUcker Great point! I'm talking gibberish and that surely tips the balance. If one can't see that oneself, then one is one massive hypocrite!

Anyone intelligent here?

ScrambledSmegs Tue 13-Nov-12 20:02:03

hmm

I wonder...

<dons tinfoil hat>

ErikNorseman Tue 13-Nov-12 20:03:03

This thread is fucking hilarious

badgeroncaffeine Tue 13-Nov-12 20:03:32

Yes, BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo, you would know the thread inside out, it goes without saying.

Yawn...

Pagwatch Tue 13-Nov-12 20:04:14

Rudolph, I have a hobby. I bully Tee.

I think amillionyears genuinely does believe that she is a lone voice of reason which is a shame because calling totally non racist posters racist just because you can't believe that you may have misunderstood is not good.

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 20:04:34

Oh, Good Lord, it's like Gabby Loggon's chippy younger brother.
<sighs>

MmeL, did you? I will maybe have to change, a couple of people have said they thought I was AF, despite her measured tones and my bitching snipes being very different in style grin

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:04:54

the thing is, I use mn for light relief, and because I've made friends here. I dont discuss parenting much, or weaning or breastfeeding.

MN is a good place to talk nonsense and not be a responsible adult for a couple of hours.

some people need to get a life!

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 20:05:01

Badger
What is wrong with you? We are having a laugh and you are just being arsey. One might suspect that you were a friend of amillion.

IamtheZombie Tue 13-Nov-12 20:05:20

So does Zombie, Smegs. She has an almost overpowering sense of deja vu.

PickledFanjoCat Tue 13-Nov-12 20:05:32

Badgers like frogs. sad

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:05:41

well, Ive been on here since the beginning.... are you tired dear? is that why you are so touchy?

ScrambledSmegs Tue 13-Nov-12 20:06:15

Why is this thread upsetting you so much, badgeroncaffeine?

I'm just wondering what your motivation for coming on here and posting confrontational comments is.

badgeroncaffeine Tue 13-Nov-12 20:06:25

Great logic MmeLindor...you're on the right thread!

MaryZezItsOnlyJustNovember Tue 13-Nov-12 20:06:31

You haven't made friends, Cuervo. You have joined a gang. Didn't you realise that?

BOFingSanta Tue 13-Nov-12 20:06:46

I don't think I have seen such intransigence since the Super Soaker thread. Baffling.

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 20:07:07

See? Axey Grindy.
Do badgers wear socks, do we suppose?

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 20:07:13

Rudolph
I did. I thought you sounded different, and wondered why AF was on the XF thread cause I couldn't remember her posting there before, but it was just so AF-like, the name.

ScrambledSmegs Tue 13-Nov-12 20:07:35

S'almost like the Twilight Zone, isn't it Zombie?

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:08:30

mary, Ive been here 6 years. I just cant leave sad despite deregging several times.

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 20:09:28

I have been taught to be logical, responsible... practical even, Badger.

MaryZezItsOnlyJustNovember Tue 13-Nov-12 20:10:46

<plays Hotel California>

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Tue 13-Nov-12 20:11:01

Honestly? This isn't a wind up thread?!

I thought everybody knew that the phrase 'mad as a box of frogs' is based on, well, green lily pad sitters confined to a cardboard receptacle?!

It categorically has nothing to do with the French.

MNHQ need an apology from Amillion!

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 13-Nov-12 20:11:35

Badgers absolutely eat frogs. And hedgehogs. We have billions of badgers, hence no hérissons sad

Slubberdegullion Tue 13-Nov-12 20:13:28

ooh <paxies> BOF I was just thinking super soaker too, but crosser.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Tue 13-Nov-12 20:13:46

Um, ok, that would be yes then.

Sorry, Badger. Wankbadger wasn't meant as an insult to you personally. More that it appears on MN quite often and I wondered if it offended badgers like frogs apparently offends the French...

<slinks off>
<waves to Zombie>
Zombie! Is MN racist to zombies? Should we be trying to respect and understand your culture?

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 20:14:16

I do not know, nor have ever "met" badgeroncaffeine on MN or anywhere else as far as I am aware.
It is up to her what she posts.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:15:13

empress I assume badger is the OP, or a friend don't worry about it. wankbadger is a common term on mn.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:15:43

ah, there you are. are you going to apologise to HQ and for slurring posters?

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Tue 13-Nov-12 20:15:58

Badgeroncaffeine Are you French? Are you related to amillion? Have you in fact, had too much caffeine?

If none of the above, get a hobby, like having a laugh, works for me grin

Feel the need to add <<capiche>> and a gentle <<head tilt>> to amillionys post.

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Tue 13-Nov-12 20:17:44

Ah amillion!! come on now, let's put this behind us, admit you got it wrong, and we'll say no more about it.

BOFingSanta Tue 13-Nov-12 20:18:19

I'm just waiting for I AM CANADIAN grin

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Tue 13-Nov-12 20:18:43

Cheers Cuervo.

RandallPinkFloyd Tue 13-Nov-12 20:19:00

Well fuck me sideways.

As if this thread wasn't bonkers enough before, I go away to do bedtime and it's all offended badgers and toad licking confused

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:19:28

I Am A Salopian...

LadyBeagle Tue 13-Nov-12 20:22:16

I am a lizard person.

AsMadAsABoxOfFrogs Tue 13-Nov-12 20:22:48

I've name changed... I couldn't resist! wink
Sorry... Will go back to my old name now. smile
But not because it's racist, it's not racist, it's an expression for hopping mad... seriously OP, you're not changing your mind at all on this matter I can see, but to accuse posters of being racist is a serious thing. You are wrong. You are confused. Stop being stubborn.

Chubfuddler Tue 13-Nov-12 20:23:03

You get deleted for mentioning lizard people too

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 20:23:25

I think I got it right, as Hully says.
I cannot apologise for something I think I am right on.
That would be silly and wrong.

Look up Badgeroncaffeine yourselves. Never heard of her.
My posts go back months, all there for people to read.

I am British. Very, as far as I know.
I dont think racism is right for any nation whatsoever on earth.

ScrambledSmegs Tue 13-Nov-12 20:24:09

So when are you going to apologise to MNHQ for your ill-founded accusations of racism, OP?

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 20:24:33

AsMadAsABoxOfFrogs grin

BarbecuedBillygoats Tue 13-Nov-12 20:25:00

Are my chickens racist?

I've seen them rip a frog apart

ScrambledSmegs Tue 13-Nov-12 20:25:01

X-posted. You got it wrong. So very, VERY WRONG.

You're only making yourself look ignorant now.

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Tue 13-Nov-12 20:25:23

WHAT FUCKING RACISM ?????

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 20:26:00

I didnt post the link. I wasnt going to. I said I was loathe to name the posters.

Another poster linked it.
The names were then visible.

Sorry to be late on the hallucinogenic toad conversation but if you ever find yourself in Lima and are offered the frog drink, just say no. I once met someone travelling who had partaken and he was VERY ill. But what the fuck he expected when he necked a blended cocktail with a live frog dropped into the blender is beyond me.

He spent 3 days throwing up from both ends, whilst i forced immodium down him, claiming he couldn't think what had set him off....then finally said, 'hmm, maybe it was the frog drink?' shock

MooncupGoddess Tue 13-Nov-12 20:27:03

"I dont think racism is right for any nation whatsoever on earth."

This doesn't actually mean anything. Do you know the difference between a race and a nation, OP?

Portofino Tue 13-Nov-12 20:27:23

But - it has already been pointed out that mad as a box of frogs is not racist. If anything I would say it demeans the mentally ill.... as opposed to the french. I feel one is being a little silly here....

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:27:30

amillion, most posters dont look up the posting history of every poster though. that is why your ridiculous accusations are so wide of the mark. that and the fact that is an extremely common saying, with NO xenophobic (not racist) connotations at all. YOU have drawn an assumption, based on your own feelings about mn. why do you continue to post here?

scottishmummy Tue 13-Nov-12 20:27:35

op do you have experience of really busy work dat,the ever full inbox
can you se as irked as you were mad as box if frogs didn't require immediate attn
given,it's not litigious,not racist,and not worth getting drawers in rankle.maybe you like the aggro?

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 20:27:43

We can agree to differ on whether we think those posters were being racist.

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 20:28:27

I like MN 90% of the time.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:28:59

I didnt post the link. I wasnt going to. I said I was loathe to name the posters.

Another poster linked it.
The names were then visible.

its still extraordinarily bad form to name and accuse posters of being racist on another thread

<bangs head against wall>

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 20:29:44

Actually I should have said, I like what MN does 90% of the time, or maybe 95%.

ScrambledSmegs Tue 13-Nov-12 20:30:34

<sigh>

It's a well-known saying. About amphibians in boxes. Not french people.

And please look up the difference between racism and xenophobia. If you're going to be howlingly, hilariously daft about something you may as well try to get one detail right.

AsMadAsABoxOfFrogs Tue 13-Nov-12 20:31:19

There's no 'agreeing to disagree' OP... You are wrong, simple as!

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 20:31:24

I would have to say that, no I dont really know the proper difference between a race and a nation.
You could explain that further, that would be helpful.

LtEveDallas Tue 13-Nov-12 20:31:48

Amillionyears, no, what would be silly and wrong is accusing posters of being racist when they arent.

You know, I see you post, a lot, on the mental health and relationships boards. You always seem level headed there, and very helpful and compassionate.

I cannot reconcile that person with the person you are here. I cannot comprehend why you feel it is OK to attack MNHQ and 2 posters over 'racism' that does not exist (and it doesn't, even if you were right, it is xenophobia, not racism). You should apologise, and I certainly think less of you now for not doing so.

PetiteRaleuse Tue 13-Nov-12 20:31:55

You know what I'm tempted to get DH, the DDs and a few neighbours, shove em in a box, or maybe a shed, and see if they are mad.

I think the conclusion of the experiment will confirm my hypothesis that the expression refers to actual frogs, not French people.

Incidentally, I have yet to meet a French person who objects to being referred to as a frog.

BoyMeetsWorld Tue 13-Nov-12 20:31:56

I'm confused now. We're 'frogs' lol & I wouldn't have thought that expression was aimed at french people? Was I just being naive?

LadyBeagle Tue 13-Nov-12 20:31:59

What 90% is that amillion?

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 20:32:49

sm,if there was racism against you on MN, are you saying you are happy for it to stand for at least 6 hours?

MmeLindor Tue 13-Nov-12 20:33:37

amillion
Where did Hully say you were right?

ilovetermtime Tue 13-Nov-12 20:33:50

I'm really, genuinely, confused as to why anyone would think that 'mad as a box of frogs' is racist. Is it purely because one of the posters who used the expression has kids at school in France??? Or have I missed something?

LtEveDallas Tue 13-Nov-12 20:34:33

Oh and you did name the posters - your post of 1829

"I still stand by that. I think ImperialStateKnickers and TuftyFinch knowingly and intentionally posted ethnic slurs."

scottishmummy Tue 13-Nov-12 20:34:58

do you work?do you understand in a busy day,same day response is good

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 20:35:02

Really PetiteRaleuse?
That is interesting.
So you think it is ok to go to France, and call them frogs?

Chubfuddler Tue 13-Nov-12 20:35:03

BUT IT'S NOT RACISM

it might be an unacceptable slur on the mentally ill but it's NOT about the bloody French. It's about actual frogs in a box which are cross.

BlameItOnTheCuervHoHoHo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:35:42

here this explains the difference easily.

and

amillionyears Tue 13-Nov-12 20:32:49
sm,if there was racism against you on MN, are you saying you are happy for it to stand for at least 6 hours

BUT IT WASNT RACISM, OR XENOPHOBIA! IT WAS THE USE OF A COMMON SAYING THAT IS A SIMILE

RudolphUcker Tue 13-Nov-12 20:35:54

Is this Hully's fault?
I thought so.

Portofino Tue 13-Nov-12 20:36:04

You do seem a moan a lot for someone who likes it here. I have been here a while and every never seen the need to complain about the rules. It is a website.

amillionyears