Deletions Stats vs Opinions that they are getting worse

(26 Posts)
ClaireDeTamble Fri 05-Oct-12 13:59:27

I've just been catching up with the MNHQ webchat (couldn't join yesterday as I was at work), and noticed the tension between MNHQ's stats which show the reduced number of deletions vs the feel from posters that the deletions are getting worse.

So, MNHQ say:

"Out of interest we've checked the deletions thing and surprisingly the number of deleted messages seems to have dropped not risen year on year - even though traffic is up by more than 40% (these include messages deleted from deleted threads - so one long thread = 1000 deletions)

Jan 1st 2011 to May 29th 2011: 81884 messages
Jan 1st 2012 to May 29th 2012: 72037 messages"

but as Hully said:

"While I do not doubt your marvellous statistics, there are a lot of us oldhands who notice a very different feel and approach.

Why might that be then?"

Well fellow MN'ers, I think I have the explanation - it is because they are both true! Moderation has increased, resulting in reduced deletions and this is why:

----------------------------------------

Firstly, let's simplify the numbers:

Lets say in 2011, there were 500 deleted messages on 100 threads. This is at the time when moderation was not as strict. If a thread turned bunfighty, it didn't get deleted until it got really bad.

Of the 100 threads, 4 got deleted, however, before deletion they reached 100 posts, so 400 deletions over 4 threads with the rest of the 100 deletions spread over the remaining 96 threads = perception of light moderation and not many deletions.

--------------------------------------------

In 2012, there were 450 deleted messages on 100 threads, however moderation is stricter.

Of the 100 threads 4 are deleted, but as moderation is stricter they are deleted before they get big, so each deleted thread only has 25 messages on before it gets deleted so that is only 100 deletions over 4 threads leaving the rest of the 350 deletions over the remaining 96 threads = perception of heavier moderation and more deletions but less deleted posts.

----------------------------------------------

Just saying that there are less deleted posts doesn't mean a thing. 'Tis all about context you see wink

Pancakeflipper Fri 05-Oct-12 14:04:41

Blimey ClaireDeT - I stand in awe of you and your statistics.

<are you really bored?>

DameFanny Fri 05-Oct-12 14:07:37

Ahem. That's fewer deleted posts.

But an excellent summary - wouldn't have worked that one out by myself

«goes to hide in pedants' corner»

ClaireDeTamble Fri 05-Oct-12 14:12:18

blush re: the fewer. I always get that one wrong am sleep deprived as DD2 is 12 months old and still doesn't sleep. (That's my excuse and I am sticking to it wink)

No, not bored. I do this stuff for a living. The discrepancy seemed to be causing some debate and the answer jumped out at me, so I thought it may be helpful to share.

SuperB0F Fri 05-Oct-12 14:15:42

By George, I think she's got it!

Mintyy Fri 05-Oct-12 14:19:10

I think more threads are deleted overall, so perhaps then the individually-deleted messages can't be searched for?

SuperB0F Fri 05-Oct-12 14:20:57

We can test that theory here.

MITMOO

DameFanny Fri 05-Oct-12 14:23:29

[Pfft]

OliviaPeaceAndLoveMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 05-Oct-12 18:18:41

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

SuperB0F Fri 05-Oct-12 18:22:34

grin

OliviaPeaceAndLoveMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 05-Oct-12 18:23:21

grin Just messin' with the statistics.

JenFrankenstein Fri 05-Oct-12 18:26:16

Olivia quite frankly I am shock at your nortyness. I always thought you were so well behaved at all times <blatant lie>

BigBroomstickBIWI Fri 05-Oct-12 18:28:55

<eyes glaze over at mention of statistics>

FancyPuffin Fri 05-Oct-12 18:54:25

I think it's because of _chat getting deleted after 90 days, are the statistics from that counted as well?

JustineMumsnet Belgium (MNHQ) Mon 08-Oct-12 10:39:54

ClaireDeTamble

I've just been catching up with the MNHQ webchat (couldn't join yesterday as I was at work), and noticed the tension between MNHQ's stats which show the reduced number of deletions vs the feel from posters that the deletions are getting worse.

So, MNHQ say:

"Out of interest we've checked the deletions thing and surprisingly the number of deleted messages seems to have dropped not risen year on year - even though traffic is up by more than 40% (these include messages deleted from deleted threads - so one long thread = 1000 deletions)

Jan 1st 2011 to May 29th 2011: 81884 messages
Jan 1st 2012 to May 29th 2012: 72037 messages"

but as Hully said:

"While I do not doubt your marvellous statistics, there are a lot of us oldhands who notice a very different feel and approach.

Why might that be then?"

Well fellow MN'ers, I think I have the explanation - it is because they are both true! Moderation has increased, resulting in reduced deletions and this is why:

----------------------------------------

Firstly, let's simplify the numbers:

Lets say in 2011, there were 500 deleted messages on 100 threads. This is at the time when moderation was not as strict. If a thread turned bunfighty, it didn't get deleted until it got really bad.

Of the 100 threads, 4 got deleted, however, before deletion they reached 100 posts, so 400 deletions over 4 threads with the rest of the 100 deletions spread over the remaining 96 threads = perception of light moderation and not many deletions.

--------------------------------------------

In 2012, there were 450 deleted messages on 100 threads, however moderation is stricter.

Of the 100 threads 4 are deleted, but as moderation is stricter they are deleted before they get big, so each deleted thread only has 25 messages on before it gets deleted so that is only 100 deletions over 4 threads leaving the rest of the 350 deletions over the remaining 96 threads = perception of heavier moderation and more deletions but less deleted posts.

----------------------------------------------

Just saying that there are less deleted posts doesn't mean a thing. 'Tis all about context you see wink

Interesting and you may well be right Claire. It's hard to say tbh - all I can say is the moderating rules and philosophy haven't changed.
It is equally possible that the "oldhands" are getting deleted more ofter 'cos they are getting rooooooder, something that does sometimes happen some of the time with some folks, I've noticed, during the typical journey of their interaction with a forum.

It's another possible explanation, and of course the two are not mutually exclusive?

BigBroomstickBIWI Mon 08-Oct-12 12:11:17

Fuck off Justine. I'm not getting rooooooooder.
wink

Hullygully Mon 08-Oct-12 12:17:42

Now look here.

Can we stick to the simple and straightforward issue?

Posts saying things like: Goodness me, you are inexpressibly smug, did not used to be called personal attacks and get deleted.

And there is something new: the deletion of posts referring to the deleted one so that threads get riddled.

And as the co-founder and chief propagator of PARD, I am certainly not getting ruder but I bloody well might in a minute

JustineMumsnet Belgium (MNHQ) Mon 08-Oct-12 18:01:33

Hullygully

Now look here.

Can we stick to the simple and straightforward issue?

Posts saying things like: Goodness me, you are inexpressibly smug, did not used to be called personal attacks and get deleted.

And there is something new: the deletion of posts referring to the deleted one so that threads get riddled.

And as the co-founder and chief propagator of PARD, I am certainly not getting ruder --but I bloody well might in a minute--

"The deleted one" sounds Potteresque grin...

JustineMumsnet Belgium (MNHQ) Mon 08-Oct-12 18:02:34

BigBroomstickBIWI

Fuck off Justine. I'm not getting rooooooooder.
wink

Me neither <<twat!>>

JustineMumsnet Belgium (MNHQ) Mon 08-Oct-12 18:05:31

I am definitely getting rooooder actually. I used to be so polite to everyone - even trolls. (But then most everyone was very nice to me. Mnetters used to send us money grin and ask how we were!)

CaseyShraeger Mon 08-Oct-12 18:06:38

I've only ever been deleted once, I think, and I still think there are more deletions now than (say) five years ago. I don't particularly have a sense that there are more than last year.

But your stats also make sense - there may be fewer deleted posts but more acts of deletion.

FancyPuffin Mon 08-Oct-12 19:21:42

How are you Justine? wine ?

JustineMumsnet Belgium (MNHQ) Mon 08-Oct-12 19:48:43

FancyPuffin

How are you Justine? wine ?

I'm fine now I have wine!

MmeLindor Germany Mon 08-Oct-12 20:31:16

I didn't understand those stats <thick> but do feel that moderation is stricter than it used to be.

But MN is evolving all the time. It is not the same MN as it was when I joined up, and I guess that in 5 years it will again be different.

C'est la vie.

BigBroomstickBIWI Mon 08-Oct-12 22:04:47

We used to send you money? <falls over laughing>

MaryZed Tue 09-Oct-12 00:50:19

I am marking my place.

'cos I'm not roooood. But sometimes want to be. And I have used Justines YPMYSLAA twice recently [proud]

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