mn hq, can we have an explanation - jess - and maybe re other trolls in future?

(1000 Posts)
wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 13:40:42

I am aware that you can't divulge the means by which you determine whether or not a poster is genuine, predominantly because if you make that common knowledge then posters will know how to avoid being detected in the future.

but jess (long ongoing eleven weeks abortion threads) threads have now been deleted for being a troll, and I was wondering if, given it's the site users who usually report these things, we could perhaps have a bit more by way of explanation?

e.g. when sassysusan was banned, mn hq confirmed that she had previously posted as washwithcare, and users were able to identify.

There has been some speculation that jess was dizzymare, and I wondered whether this was the case?

Also, these threads have been ongoing for over a month now. How is it that it takes quite this long to determine that someone isn't actually all they seem?

Yes, I agree. I assume there was proof she was trolling to delete her thread. I am really struggling to make sense of it all and what would have happned next.

LilacWaltz Mon 20-Feb-12 13:45:06

Did she herself ask for it to be deleted? Maybe?

Gribble Mon 20-Feb-12 13:45:21

oooh so she was a troll then? What a little mare.....

No lw it was deleted by mnhq

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 13:47:04

my issue is, there were people on the threads offering real practical help and support, baby clothes, meet-ups, even one who offered a place to stay.

While posters are and should always be responsible for themselves online and should practically not offer more than they can afford to, (be that emotionally or physically), the longer a situation goes on, with some obvious hints that many posters doubt the authenticity, and with no response from mn hq, the more likely posters are to believe that soemone is in fact genuine and that it's just nasty people looking to derail a thread, and perhaps feel comfortable offering that support to someone who as it turns out, wasn't all they were cracked up to be.

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 13:47:05

I agree.
I had my doubts very early on regarding this poster but sat it out as I wasn't sure but there has been quite a lot of ill feeling surrounding this thread and I think quite a few people would appreciate some feedback.

If she really was a troll I think it's sick. So many people cared and offered help both practical and psychological. It hurts so many people! sad

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 13:48:20

lw no mn hq deleted the thread saying that all wasn't as it seemed.

I hope nobody is vulnerable having been in RL touch with 'her'.

flywiththecrows Mon 20-Feb-12 13:48:47


LilacWaltz Mon 20-Feb-12 13:49:37

Oh I missed that then!

BlackCatTryingToFly Mon 20-Feb-12 13:50:38

I wouldn't know who was a troll unless they were posting about something silly or strange.
I namechange sometimes but that is because some things I post about are sensitive and personal so wouldn't want everyone to know it was me under my usual name.

I wonder if maybe we should each be limited to a certain amount of nicknames to stop trolls changing all the time or make them easier to pick out??

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 13:51:27

I'm sure her 'followers' must be feeling upset and hurt after all the care they showed her.

But if any good can come out this is that maybe next they come across such a thread they think carefully before divulging information about themselves.

Theone, there's a good chance a 16w foetus won't be aborted though (hopefully never existed). So on the whole I'm happy.

MyNameIsntFUCKINGWarren Mon 20-Feb-12 13:53:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StarlightDicKenzie Mon 20-Feb-12 13:53:23

Oh God. I gave up on that thread long ago. Guess I've just been here too long and seen to many.......

I think most of us had suspicions but did the benefit of the doubt thing

ForeverProcrastinating Mon 20-Feb-12 13:56:04

I'm another who would like some clarity and closure on this, really for the same reasons as the previous two posters have just said.

StarlightDicKenzie Mon 20-Feb-12 13:56:41

Oh God. I gave up on that thread long ago. Guess I've just been here too long and seen to many.......

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 13:56:43

Starlight I hadn't seen it until Saturday - had seen the threads in active but hadn't clicked, but when it got to the 3rd thread I did wonder so had a look. As soon as I read the op I thought hmm and wondered whether the early traumatic birth and death of the baby would follow in the next few weeks <cynic>.

She has identacle posts all over the internet. Some of which confirm she has decided to keep the baby and some don't. I think it's almost certainly dizzymare (whoever she might be in rl) as this was her style.

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 13:56:45

I think there were a few threads across the web from the same woman, with completely different timescales. So likely to be bunkum. Google is your friend.

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 13:59:00

I agree le bof quiet a few in fact.

franke Mon 20-Feb-12 13:59:49

I'm assuming it was a returning troll - there are a few likely candidates going back a number of years.

debka Mon 20-Feb-12 14:00:24

Why would someone do that? I just don't understand why you would create this whole pretence. Do these people have nothing better to do?

VivaLeBeaver Mon 20-Feb-12 14:00:41

I thought it was v similar to dizzymare but kept quiet. I knew others had reported it. I saw someone gave a big hint as well by saying that Jess would be very dizzy if it was twins. grin

MrsEros Mon 20-Feb-12 14:00:47

I know several posters flagged her up to MNHQ as suspicious when the first thread started. It never rang true and only became more far-fetched as things went on.

I think the posters who stuck with it were worried about a woman/ baby. They did the right thing and possibly saved a very confused woman from doing something she may later live to regret.
I agree Stealth that without more details you can consider what you all offered her to be a good thing.

AlistairSim Mon 20-Feb-12 14:01:12

I completely missed this thread but think it would very useful for HQ to give out a bit more information about all troll threads.
It would at least stop some of the speculation.

StarlightDicKenzie Mon 20-Feb-12 14:01:28

Oh is that how the story panned out?

I gave up when she said she's not allowed to choose adoption on the second page of thread one. Not being smug but must have too much exposure to the dizzymare and cvq types in the past. They sound the same kind of neediness iyswim as well as being boringly predictable and dramatic.

SinicalSanta Mon 20-Feb-12 14:01:36

but surely dm or any half decent troll wouldn't use the same name all over the internet?
Will I - Won't I scenario when it comes to unexpected pg is v common in rl.

Maybe this is just an example of the digital generation divide. Some people, especially younger ones ime, play out their whole lives online and don't care about recognisabilty. (if that's a word)

here I did think goatmuncher, when I eventually clicked, but could of course be wrong.

LilacWaltz Mon 20-Feb-12 14:02:10

What alerted mnhq?

fridakahlo Mon 20-Feb-12 14:02:26

She had my trolldar humming from the first post but I did not post my suspicions as the site t's and c's state no troll hunting. Should I have reported because I had no proof, just suspicions?

SinicalSanta Mon 20-Feb-12 14:03:17

I think so Frida, that's the procedure

ChippingInNeedsCoffee Mon 20-Feb-12 14:03:25

I didn't get involved on that thread as I had my suspicions sad

It would be good to know if it was Dizzymare again or not and if not, what other name she'd posted under.

Frida - I report suspicions all the time grin

OnlyWantsOne Mon 20-Feb-12 14:04:38

Yep, i saw and suspected all that followers bullshit... urgh

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 14:05:10

I am absolutely delighted that those threads are gone, as those types of threads do huge amounts of harm.

There were people on them talking about their terminations, their difficulties during pregnancy, them being abandoned. And she was stringing them all out with if's and but's and might's angry.

And asking for rl help, and attacking people who were saying "be careful".

I wanted to back you, Wannabe, on the third thread, but I'm on a warning. I was glad to see that Pranma, for example, had woken up to the dangers of offering rl help.

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 14:06:08

cynical dizzymare used the same name elsewhere too iirc, including on various bereavement forums. shock and just for the record, dizzymare was proven to be a troll when someone elsewhere apparently spotted that the pictures of her dead twins had actually been lifted from the internet. shock

MerryMarigold Mon 20-Feb-12 14:06:51

I have troll spotted correctly in the past, but this one went by me. She even inboxed me, but I didn't reply to that. It wasn't even inviting a reply really. Weird. I get poo trolls getting a kick out of it, but this was so....well, mundane. It was hardly dramatic, just sadly quite real.

TheSecondComing Mon 20-Feb-12 14:07:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SinicalSanta Mon 20-Feb-12 14:07:25


MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 14:08:11

Viva, comments like being "dizzy if it's twins" are the type of comments that are being deleted.

I think it's sad that when you read down a thread like that, all the deletions make people think that posters are being rude and abusive to the op, whereas most are "be careful" or "hint" posts.

There must be a better way than replacing them all by "Message deleted by Mumsnet" hmm.

Portofino Mon 20-Feb-12 14:08:44

The first 2 are still there.

MrsEros Mon 20-Feb-12 14:08:53

Yes, Frida, you report and say something like "OK, so I am probably a nasty suspicious cynical person but this has my trolldar humming BIG TIME" and MNHQ reply saying "Thanks for letting us know; we'll keep an eye on it". And then sometimes eventually the thread gets deleted, but generally not for a while.

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 14:08:58

My heart was in my mouth there, Mary...the "<name>, for example" MN trope is deeply ingrained grin

Agincourt Mon 20-Feb-12 14:09:06

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

AmberLeaf Mon 20-Feb-12 14:09:11


I started to read that thread, but TBH when I just read the title I though 'here we go again'

The forumla is just soo cheesy, its getting easier to spot!

Wonder if the other one has been debunked yet?

<orphans is a buzz word>

LilacWaltz Mon 20-Feb-12 14:09:48

TSC.... You aren't the first to have said that!

MerryMarigold Mon 20-Feb-12 14:10:17

(Though I only went on the first thread at the beginning so perhaps the drama upped.)

LilacWaltz Mon 20-Feb-12 14:10:34

Porto... Is there a link?

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 14:11:04

Great idea, Agincourt. You are Vair Hillair hmm

CagneyNLacey Mon 20-Feb-12 14:12:33

Surely just the thread titles were enough to make people hmm

I know some people have sympathy for the type of sad act who trolls like this, but really they are just utterly worthless people.

MardyBra Mon 20-Feb-12 14:12:37

MaryZ on a warning? Bloody hell. Don't think I've ever seen you do anything controversial.

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 14:14:00

I do agree re the deleted messages. especially when the op comes back and says "oh, wannabe you in particular were very rude to me," and I have a deleted post to my name even though I wasn't rude to her - iyswim.

LittleMissGoodEnough Mon 20-Feb-12 14:14:23

But why do they do it? Do they just get off on the attention, or is it more sinister than that?

I was lurking on that thread, and thought it didn't ring true, but how do you know? You can't just say to mnhq 'this is a bit dodge' can you? Life can be strange, just because my life is quite dull predictable sedate, doesn't mean that others with more exciting lives are trolls.

I've spent all weekend on mn (house of cold and sick at the moment), and there are a few threads at the moment that make me go hmm. Should I be reporting all of them?

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 14:15:58

"Surely just the thread titles were enough to make people
hmm" obviously not. Even on the last thread there were people saying things like "you should all be ashamed of yourselves, here is a vulnerable young woman needing our support..." etc etc, when I would have thought that to anyone it was bloody obvious that it was a load of rubbish.

Littlemiss - yes I would report. SO much harm can be done by these emotional vampire trolls.

BerryLellow Mon 20-Feb-12 14:17:17

I really didn't know whether to report or not in this case.

There's another one I'm a bit unsure of cranking up now, but if I was wrong about it I'd be horrified as the subject is sensitive.

I think TSC is right about waiting for the next biggie...

PurplePidjin Mon 20-Feb-12 14:18:37

I always report suspicions. MNHQ won't know unless we tell them - whether it's a troll or a person in desperate need of RL support. Depending on time of day I generally just send brew or wine to ease the shift along. The mods know far better than me what to do with the information!

I always get a lovely email from MNTowers to say thanks.

You can and do littlemiss. But Tbh I reportedand after hearing nothing for a while, my suspicions went down a bit. Until the next dramatic twist anyway. So the time lag does lull you in to a false sense of security IME

duckdodgers Mon 20-Feb-12 14:19:12

Jess was a troll? I read those threads but didnt post, had a small suspicion and then thought I was being too cynical. Wonder how MNHQ found out?

To the posters who said she was posting all over the internet witht he same story how disd you find that out, was she daft enough to use the same username? confused

Pekka Mon 20-Feb-12 14:19:54

CagneynLacey - I agree. I ignored the thread, suspecting it was a troll just by the title. I am an old cynic when it comes to internet forums.

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 14:19:55

Just report them anyway. MNHQ do so love reading my paranoid ramblings, and politely dismissing them- I'm sure they'd like to spread some of that love around.

Bohica Mon 20-Feb-12 14:21:58

I wonder if MNHQ will give an explination?

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 14:22:23

littlemiss yes I would report all of them.

The reason why IMO these trolls get away with it is because they choose such emotive topics, and it takes a certain kind of presumed unfeeling person to suggest that someone might, for instance, fabricate the death of a child... and so no-one wants to be the one to speak out, and so the posts go unchallenged...

GetOrfMoiiLand Mon 20-Feb-12 14:24:17

I read a few posts on the first thread, and didn't really think anything of it but I thought the thread title was in a particular 'style'

There was a thread a few months back where a poster stated that her DH wanted her to have an abortion at 16 weeks or whatever. Lots of suspicion around that.

Horrible, horrible to make up something like that about such an emotive topic.

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 14:24:36

I report as well.

I have an inbox full of "we will take a look". And about half of them fizzle out, and the other half are deleted. Usually, though, it takes 48 hours by which stage I get a bit antsy.

Mardy, i was doing a bit of hinting on a variety of threads recently. I would be prepared to bet every penny I am every likely to have that the threads I'm watching are a load of bull, but I can't prove it hmm.

Helen's warning was very polite, but still a warning.

But if Wannabe hadn't been on the thread yesterday, there would have been people sending money to Jess, I bet you. She also had a thread somewhere about housing - is it still there?

hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 14:24:47

I reported and reported and reported her threads, it was so obviously a pile of shite. I missed the deleting because I was out doing RL and now it's all gone poof.


GetOrfMoiiLand Mon 20-Feb-12 14:25:12

There are a couple of threads around at the mo which I simply do not believe at all.

I think those are perhaps our friends from the amateur writers club.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 14:25:16


As wannaBe says, we generally never divulge how and why we have come to the conclusion that a poster may or may not be genuine but, seeing as this thread's been started and so many people were involved in jess080990's threads, we think it's only fair to clarify things a little.

OK, so, yes, jess080990 has been reported to us many times since she joined MN, and we were watching her threads.

But, as we said to all those who reported her, there was nothing we could see about her posts or other stuff <watches words> that made us think for sure that she was anything other than genuine.

And, mindful of the fact that, if she were genuine, she was a poster in need of huge amounts of support and advice at a difficult and vulnerable time in her life, it was clear to us that we should very much stick to our long-held stance of erring on the side of benefit of the doubt.

So that meant, when the trollhunting started, we did delete any suggestion that she was trolling - as our guidelines state that we will.

However, in the past few hours, it's become clear to us that jess080990 was posting about her situation on other forums. Nothing wrong with that, of course - we don't demand exclusivity! But, on one particular forum, jess080990 had arrived at a decision about her baby a full week before she started her first thread on Mumsnet, asking for advice about what to do.

We still have no reason to doubt the general facts of jess080990's situation but it's clear to us that her first thread on Mumsnet was started after she had posted on another forum that she'd made up her mind about her abortion. And that, therefore, means she was posting here in, at the very least, a misleading way.

ShirleyO Mon 20-Feb-12 14:25:23

<nods> at TSC

Been watching this one forEVER - just starting to play out now...


SaggyOldClothCatPuss Mon 20-Feb-12 14:25:45

I reported Jess, I was in at the beginning, and offered to meet. Thankfully in an open public place. Nothing came of it though. I gave up somewhere around the middle of the first thread though it was frustrating and sick and i was pretty sure she was not genuine. I'm quite impressed, my trolldar is improving! Im a little annoyed at how long it took though, bearing in mind, as I said on the deleted thread, she was starting multiple threads about as highly emotive and upsetting subject as late abortion on the pregnancy boards and many many people were sucked in. sad

OnlyWantsOne Mon 20-Feb-12 14:26:26

terrible sad

AmberLeaf Mon 20-Feb-12 14:27:39

Yes what wannabe said /\

Delicate subjects that if you say anything doubting on a thread like that you would look a right bitch!

God knows why they do it, must be bored!

CagneyNLacey Mon 20-Feb-12 14:28:25

Yup, thread title style defo familiar - 'terribly emotive subject, I am vulnerable, guide me oh wise ones'. Oh do fuck off, troll, you tedious waste of skin.

Good for you saggy, I think there will be fewer genuinely helpful people willing to feed posters having a hard time pies because of trolls like this one. And that's a shame. Dying to know what is meant by "other stuff"

MardyBra Mon 20-Feb-12 14:29:19

Fair enough Maryz.

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 14:30:45

Thank you Helen smile.

I hope this thread stays, and doesn't get derailed by too much naming names, because that would be a useful explanation to refer people to when they say "well no-one would do such a thing".

When a "vulnerable poster" posts on a very emotive issue, there is more than one person vulnerable - there is the original poster, and also all the people who read and are emotionally caught up in it all. My sympathy (after many years of seeing this type of thing) is firmly with the latter.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 14:33:02

Forgot to say: many many thanks to those who reported. We know some of you think reporting posters to us is a waste of time but we really do need to jump up and down and say it really isn't.

Every report we get tells us something new. And every report we get is followed up. We simply can't "see" everything on the boards, so, unless you report things you're worried about, we're quite likely not pick up on anything at all.

LittleMissGoodEnough Mon 20-Feb-12 14:34:45

Okey dokey, loud and clear. Will start pressing buttons then!

hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 14:35:17

But the thing is Helen many times it's just a gut instinct, a feeling, that something's not right - there's nothing really tangible

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 14:35:42

Also forgot to say <durr>, we have absolutely no reason to think jess is linked to dizzymare in any way at all.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 14:35:55


Okey dokey, loud and clear. Will start pressing buttons then!

thank you!

SaggyOldClothCatPuss Mon 20-Feb-12 14:36:04

Stealth, if you are ever in need, I have a pork pie with your name on it! wink

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 14:36:11

This is my only venture into forums, and I have only one years experience. I am, I guess, very new and gullible.

I just can't fathom why someone would do this. It is pretty horrifying, actually, that they would post about such an emotive issue and encourage sharing from genuine posters, raking up their traumatic memories and emotions in doing so.

I just find it all so desperately, desperately cruel. And all for attention? Is that what they seek? Christ almighty.

Times like this I'm glad I believe in karma.

ShowOfHands Mon 20-Feb-12 14:37:29

I didn't even open the threads. The tmi, capitals, pleading, xxx and triggers in the title were enough. It's bloody awful behaviour.

bibbitybobbityhat Mon 20-Feb-12 14:38:45

Glad to see that one drop out of active convos at last. It did take a long time!

<places bet on which will be the next to go ppfftttt>

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 14:39:51


But the thing is Helen many times it's just a gut instinct, a feeling, that something's not right - there's nothing really tangible

I know. But we'd still like you to tell us about those gut feelings, please. Sometimes, your gut may be way off but sometimes, it might not.

I reckon that, of the "troll" reports we get, over half are on the money - even if it takes us a while to discover that.

And it's the discovering that's very time-consuming. The sooner we can start the discovery process <sounds like CSI>, the sooner we can act (if we need to).

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 14:39:59

thank you helen.

Stealth "other stuff" can be a multitude of things, depending on what tools mn hq have to their disposal. ime most trolls have something consistent about them which if you know what you're looking for becomes apparent eventually. The really really damaging one I banned from the site where I moderate has something that ties to her rl in every one of her persona's - it's something different in each one of them, but as I know who she is it's been easy to spot, iyswim. And social media helps track these people as well if you know how to use it.

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 14:40:21

"we're quite likely not to pick up on anything at all"...

You said it, Helen grin

why will you never acknowledge the bloody obvious wanking troll?

Can you tell us if you banned Penandink today, Helen? Or explain why he seemed to get posts deleted on request that in no way broke any guidelines? For example, Soupdragon suggested to him that if he didn't enjoy the way MN worked, there were many other places to explore on the Internet. Deleted. No personal attack, no troll hunting. I'm baffled, I tell ye.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 14:41:50


"we're quite likely not to pick up on anything at all"...

You said it, Helen grin

why will you never acknowledge the bloody obvious wanking troll?

Can you tell us if you banned Penandink today, Helen? Or explain why he seemed to get posts deleted on request that in no way broke any guidelines? For example, Soupdragon suggested to him that if he didn't enjoy the way MN worked, there were many other places to explore on the Internet. Deleted. No personal attack, no troll hunting. I'm baffled, I tell ye.

Have you reported the the bloody obvious wanking troll?

MyNameIsntFUCKINGWarren Mon 20-Feb-12 14:42:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Make it a cheese slice and I'm there smile

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 14:42:50

The IP anonymising can be quite sophisticated. Our fapping troll has it off pat. As do rings of sinister paedophiles. Just sayin'.

MardyBra Mon 20-Feb-12 14:43:19

Have i missed out on some wanking?

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 14:43:48

Helen, YES! Of course I have.

I will resend a copy of the latest one to you personally.

deemented Mon 20-Feb-12 14:45:10

One thing i woud say, given the experience of hindsight, is to those that report the threads - maybe spend a moment or two to PM those you think are getting too emotionally involved with the troll - just let them know you have concerns. Maybe they'll thank you for it, maybe they won't, but at least you'll have given them a heads up to be careful.

adamschic Mon 20-Feb-12 14:45:57

Oh she was a troll, thought so.

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 14:46:10

so helen, do you have any jobs going? I am good at this sort of thing you know wink

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 14:46:15

HQ why not just put Boffy on the payroll?

QueenOfFlippingEverything Mon 20-Feb-12 14:46:28

The wanking troll is extremely obvious. But I can't say more as I have had my plucky buttocks spanked wrist slapped by MNHQ for pointing him out too often.

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 14:46:37

ooh xpost wannabe!

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 14:47:52

Helen, you can't be asking whether we have reported the bloody obvious wanking troll (if it is who I think reality means).

S/he has at least 20 names and nearly all were hinted at in deleted posts on the zeebrugge thread grin.

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 14:48:06

Ah yes <proffers plucky buttocks>

Gribble Mon 20-Feb-12 14:48:11

I have a gut feeling about a thread atm. Its all gone a bit frenzied and the OP writes very oddly.

<strokes chin>

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 14:48:12


For example, Soupdragon suggested to him that if he didn't enjoy the way MN worked, there were many other places to explore on the Internet. Deleted. No personal attack, no troll hunting. I'm baffled, I tell ye.

Acksherly. Soupy said, "Oh FFS get a grip or bog off to another website if you don't like this one."

Which was a personal attack <brandishes Talk Guidelines>

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 14:48:14

I mean BOF, sorry blush

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 14:49:00

I thought Soupie's request was rather reasonable actually, considering the circumstances.

Hang on. So what if she posted on another forum that she had made her decision, and then a week later posted here saying she didn't know what to do? The whole theme of her threads was that she was going back and forth about what to do. Why is that suspicious?

Do people imagine that you make a decision about termination just bang, like that, and go ahead with it? Lots of people take a long time to decide.

I agree the threads were questionable and perhaps the 'other stuff' you refer to is more damning, but on its own that explanation for deciding on 'troll' is pretty thin.

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 14:49:46

Oh Helen, that's just robust advice grin

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 14:50:11

Ooh, Queen, were you warned too?

<feels better>

StarlightDicKenzie Mon 20-Feb-12 14:50:29

I think we are expecting an 'announcement' in a couple of weeks too. Just saying........

QueenOfFlippingEverything Mon 20-Feb-12 14:50:38

I have reported the wanking troll more times than I actually manage to have an uninterrupted wank myself, I fear sad

MyNameIsntFUCKINGWarren Mon 20-Feb-12 14:51:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 14:51:07

Not just decision, dreaming, AFAIK, action. Deed was done.

MyNameIsntFUCKINGWarren Mon 20-Feb-12 14:51:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 14:52:12

I have never been warned <preens>

Seriously though I feel like a snitch sometimes when I'm reporting someone on a sensitive thread

What announcement starlight

Ohhhhhhh, I see, thank ye. Yeah that's crazy town then.

<as you were>

CagneyNLacey Mon 20-Feb-12 14:55:44

I have no idea who the long standing, about to ramp it up troll is sad

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 14:56:49

I'm fretting here like a right tosser. How do you know? What should I look out for? I feel so gullible. MN isn't a safe place then if I can't protect myself. Does it just come with experience? I'm a smart woman FFS!!

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 14:57:42

Let's not get into trollhunting now, please, folks. Or I'll have to delete the thread and I have already worn a weary groove into the delete button today.

Any other concerns about any other posters, please use the report button. <may have to get a tattoo saying this>

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 14:58:23

<pats Pinot's empty little kittenhead>grin

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 15:00:06

Fanks Boffy

<cries a bit>

Pinot - first thing is don't reveal things about your personal story that you aren't happy for what is basically a ghoul to dine out on. If it will hurt you to see it made use of wrongly then DON'T SAY IT. For me for example on Jess's thread I referred to my own unplanned pregnancy. That's fine, it's not a secret and it's many years ago and it worked out fine. I didn't however say anything about what I did or my intimate stuff because that's my stuff and not for common consumption when I don't trust the OP.
The second thing is think bout your RL safety and don't give out your e-mail or phone numbers. If you want to meet up do it in a VERY public place and take someone with you.

Tmesis Mon 20-Feb-12 15:01:15

I really don't think Soupy's comment was a personal attack at all. Granted, I also think that he ought to take her advice but I wouldn't see it as a personal attack even if it were directed at me.

ShowOfHands Mon 20-Feb-12 15:03:02

Pinot have you really only been here a year? Don't worry, give it another 6 and you'll smell them a mile off.

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 15:03:03

I had a bit of a warning about four years ago because I suggested that someone advertising for someone to work for his dvd retailer was in fact running a porn site. grin because he refused to give any details about the site until you'd given him a completed application form along with your address and telephone number.

I was asked not to post on his thread (for which he had paid) again, so I posted a "I have tried to look out for mumsnetters and have been warned" flounce on chat, which I think gave users fair enough warning...

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 15:03:16


Pinot - first thing is don't reveal things about your personal story that you aren't happy for what is basically a ghoul to dine out on. If it will hurt you to see it made use of wrongly then DON'T SAY IT. For me for example on Jess's thread I referred to my own unplanned pregnancy. That's fine, it's not a secret and it's many years ago and it worked out fine. I didn't however say anything about what I did or my intimate stuff because that's my stuff and not for common consumption when I don't trust the OP.
The second thing is think bout your RL safety and don't give out your e-mail or phone numbers. If you want to meet up do it in a VERY public place and take someone with you.

We'd definitely second that advice, NorthernLurker.

And, Pinot, it might help to read this advice from Hecate that we quote in our Talk Guidelines:

"If you think the person is not real, you don't have to post - nobody has a gun at your head! If you suspect the person is false and trying to hurt, or get money, tell MNHQ! How terrible if genuine people - people in trouble, people at the end of their tether - come here as their last hope for some help and advice, are savaged and go off again, feeling terrible and that they don't have anywhere left to turn to?"

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 15:04:48


I really don't think Soupy's comment was a personal attack at all. Granted, I also think that he ought to take her advice but I wouldn't see it as a personal attack even if it were directed at me.

'Fraid to say it is a personal attack (the "bog off" bit). We're quite clear about that.

Portofino Mon 20-Feb-12 15:05:23

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 15:05:26

Thanks Northern, genuinely. I tend to lurk on emotional threads, or PM, rather than post onboard as I have previously <ahem> overshared and felt a tool for doing so. But I believed Jess/felt sad for her. Didn't PM her though.

I dunno, it just makes me feel really really stupid. And vulnerable. And old. I may have to turn off the tinterweb and stick to RL. Quelle horreur.

<<twitter crashes as mumsnetters rush over>>

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 15:06:49

Xpost Showy and Helen. Thanks both.

Am I the only one that can't spot 'em then?? <wails more>

deemented Mon 20-Feb-12 15:08:11

No, you ain't Pinot.

snapsnap Mon 20-Feb-12 15:08:39

I think its quite emotionally vampiric (is that a word!) to post looking for advice on a made up problem. Its weird

I can also see how these people could compromise a forum such as this.
However what I cant understand is why posters are so up in arms about trollers. Its not real life after all and surely when you post you are not getting emotionally invested the way you would irl?

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 15:09:22

The other thing that I think is important is that on a lot of threads it really doesn't matter if people make things up a bit. There was a thread here yesterday where someone was posting about two men being in her garden.

There were a couple of posters saying "oh, yeah, right" and "we don't believe you" but that was unnecessary. She was doing no harm. I think it was credible, but even if it wasn't, so what?

Same for "I saw someone not strapping their child in shock" or "teacher told my child to fuck off" type posts. So what if someone is trying out a bit of novel-writing, or experimenting with imaginary moaning. I just leave them to it.

But the "tell me your worst moments, share with me your grief, listen to me going on and on about everyone's nightmare - miscarriage, stillbirth, bereavement" - those trolls are just plain nasty and should be reported every single time. Eventually, hopefully, they will slip up.

I can't Pinot but I've only been here since December and I've never been on another forum. I was shocked at the suspicions wrt Jess but after I gave it some thought I was glad I only lurked.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Mon 20-Feb-12 15:10:02

Prolly sounds weird but i am glad.
Cos i thought it was just being an old cow.
Because i thought it was all crap from about page 2 thread 1.

I tried to suspend my cynical disbelief because people were being so nice.
I failed. So I didnt look after a while and just assumed I was wrong and bad.

Now I feel a little less of a meany.

Snapsnap - can you give advice based on your personal experience of pain, loss, confusion and distress and NOT get personally involved? I can't. This is why boards like Bereavement are so very vulnerable to the horrors of trolling.

ShirleyO Mon 20-Feb-12 15:10:40



I'll watch out for you. Also, just steer clear from the rellay hyper emosh stuff until your radar is good and adjusted.

Mine got good and honed after dizzy.

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 15:11:08

dee! hair! <<pats seat on thicko's bench>> come sit!

snapsnap - it is RL. MN is real.

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 15:12:00

<tongue kisses Shirls>

Yes, I have no relevant experience (ic'm like an anti troll) but still found that thread really upsetting

Tmesis Mon 20-Feb-12 15:12:19

So "Oh FFS get a grip or head off to another website if you don't like this one." would have been OK?

Good to see that 'FFS get a grip' is ok. I was going to have to SERIOUSLY rethink my posting style.

StarlightDicKenzie Mon 20-Feb-12 15:13:06

It's usually when you have been following a thread for a bit and then suddenly find yourself going 'oh god, NOW WHAT?' with impatience or where you see a juicy thread title designed to make maximum impact imo.

<<puts her ample backside down next to Pinot and hopes she doesn't squash anyone>>

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 15:13:19

x-posted snapsnap - the emotional investment comes when people are most vulnerable. For example, imagine a board where a number of posters who had lost children (stillbirth, cotdeath, accident and illness). They post over a number of years, supporting each other, and then discover than one of them is completely made up, hasn't lost a child at all.

Imagine how you would feel - that all your grief and the support you have offered and received is now tainted by the fact that someone was using it as a writing exercise, or looking at it as a joke.

It's horrific, when you look at it like that, and that is why we all mind so much.

deemented Mon 20-Feb-12 15:14:50

<shoves pinot over to accomodate her wide arse and permanently latched on child>

BelleEnd Mon 20-Feb-12 15:15:08

I agree with the poster who said that the explanation given for the deletion seems a little wonky. She goes on one forum, talks it over, makes a difficult decision. Has a wobble, decides to try another forum. OK, she didn't say that she'd had online discussions about it before, but that doesn't mean that it's a lie, that she's not that person, in distress.
Others have said she's posted online with different timescales re. the pregnancy, but it seems that if this is true, it wasn't the reason for the ban.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 15:15:26


So "Oh FFS get a grip or head off to another website if you don't like this one." would have been OK?

Well, tbh, "get a grip" could be read as a personal attack, too - espesh in combination with the rest of the post.

May I respectfully suggest "If you don't like it here, maybe you should post on another site?"

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 15:16:08


It's usually when you have been following a thread for a bit and then suddenly find yourself going 'oh god, NOW WHAT?' with impatience or where you see a juicy thread title designed to make maximum impact imo.

And that's when you Report, yes, Starlight? <rams point home>

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 15:17:01

You will turn us into Netmums Helen shock.

If we all get too polite, it wouldn't be the same at all.

Tmesis Mon 20-Feb-12 15:17:44

<programs that phrase into a F-key macro>

<starts trawling through various threads with fingers hovering over F-key>


ShirleyO Mon 20-Feb-12 15:17:50

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

FidoFellDown Mon 20-Feb-12 15:17:59

Not to defend someone who clearly hurt so many people, but surely, since all her threads/posts here and on other forums were about one topic, there is a large chance that she was in this situation at some point in her life and hasn't "got over it" yet. Obviously, if that is the case, she didn't go about dealing with it in the right way, but it seems slightly harsh to write her off as sad, heartless and living out her life through the internet.

I do feel for anyone that became emotionally involved with her "story", though.

hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 15:18:01

I do think a good "fuck off" delivered with aplomb should still be allowed though

And I don't like that it's not anymore

snapsnap Mon 20-Feb-12 15:18:19

I can see how someone crashing in on a bereavement thread could be upsetting. I dont even read those threads. I have no experience or advice to offer and I think even reading posts like that when you cant offer support is invasive.
But are all trolls up to that and also you are posting on a public forum. You cant expect that honest truth at all times.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 15:18:28


If we all get too polite...

<pigs fly past in formation>

ClumsyClogs Mon 20-Feb-12 15:19:28

Tmesis grin

Mrs de Vere I felt exactly the same about Jess, I felt guilty for thinking hmm

ShirleyO Mon 20-Feb-12 15:19:34


I didn't even name a poster or anything. Seriously.

Maryz Sadly I dont have to try and imagine that scenario. On our amazing bereaved Mums thread we have had a minimum of maybe 6 such <<searches for the right words>> 'revolting human beings' (I got that from the Jezzer show this morning so it should be ok to say on here!!) they slowly poison our 'safe haven' - two of them in particular came so very close to bringing a close to our thread. BUT we picked up where we had left off and got on with it. We have, on our thread, all been hurt a thousand times more than any troll could hurt us. Why anybody would want to pretend to be a bereaved parent is beyond my realms of imagination.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 20-Feb-12 15:20:10

Wan king troll? I've missed that one.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 15:20:46


I do think a good "fuck off" delivered with aplomb should still be allowed though

And I don't like that it's not anymore

We love aplomb but not with "fuck off" attached.

And we never have. Our Guidelines haven't changed (in essence) for a decade.

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 15:21:45

I missed it shirls
thats how crap at this I am <larfs>

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 15:23:03

I know Shabba sad. I was thinking of you lot when I posted that. It is unforgivable what people have done on the bereavements boards/threads.

Shirley, what on earth did you say? pm's accepted grin

I missed it too!

hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 15:24:00

Maryz you're too slow I already pm'd her grin

ClumsyClogs Mon 20-Feb-12 15:25:00

Yeah, I missed it too, what did Shirls do/say?

Give it another go Shirl, see if you can re-phrase, I'm very curious now!

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 15:26:10

In all seriousness, Helen, how are we newbies/thickos/innocent/kitten-brains expected to learn if you delete sooooo fast?

Give a gal a chance, mmm?

BelleDameSansMerci Mon 20-Feb-12 15:26:36

Don't you just sometimes get a feeling from the OP? I often think 'nah, that's not right'. I never know whether to report on gut instinct or not. Guess I should based on HQ advice on here...

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 15:27:21

well pm me too, for heaven's sake hathor shock.

Try again shirley.


ShirleyO Mon 20-Feb-12 15:27:48


I have no clue why I was deleted actually.

I was saying to Belle that MNHQ can't tell us how they find out trolls but that they don't delete and out trolls without good evidence.

I then said that one of the trolls should note that they woll get caught out sooner or later and instead of saying they're the wanking troll I said something else.. hmm

Didn't name any names or allude to them particularly.

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 15:28:10

<imagines Helen huddled over desk with finger poised on button for instant deletion>

hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 15:28:16

Belle that's what I've been saying - more than half the time it's just a feeling that something doesn't sit right, there's nothing concrete to go on, it's just a sense of "this isn't right" - I didn't used to report but going on some email exchanges I've had with HQ over it, I do now.

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 15:28:43

Theres a fine line twixt hinting enough that I'd geddit and it would escape Helen's button-of-doom.

A gnats wing, in fact.

BelleDameSansMerci Mon 20-Feb-12 15:31:36

<whispers - and I want to know who TSC is alluding to too> HINT! grin

hathor I've been in violent agreement with you on just about everything lately...

SinicalSanta Mon 20-Feb-12 15:32:36

Me too Pinot.

hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 15:32:43

grin that's true maybe we're a sockpuppet wink

Oh and TSC a wee pm would be lovely wink

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 15:32:58

I get that feeling of unease, but does that take into account that some folks are odd (but genuine?)

Frontpaw Mon 20-Feb-12 15:33:09

I did suspect. Sometimes you do read something that makes you go 'hmmmmmmm?' and that was one of those.

deemented Mon 20-Feb-12 15:34:08

If PM's are a-flying, i'd be most appreciative...

SinicalSanta Mon 20-Feb-12 15:34:38

I have had a very sheltered life. Not everyone is so lucky

StarlightDicKenzie Mon 20-Feb-12 15:35:12

So are you allowed to tell your MN friends to fuck off, you know, - in a friendly tone like?

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 15:38:20

I have a theory that you can tell anyone to fuck off and no-one will mind. But if it is reported, it goes. So feel free to tell me to fuck off if it will make you feel better, I won't mind and won't report grin.

ClumsyClogs Mon 20-Feb-12 15:38:24

Starlight - I'm pretty sure you do, we are being called cunts on a regular basis here....

Lovecat Mon 20-Feb-12 15:39:30

If "Get a grip" is construed as a personal attack, I'm amazed that 95% of AIBU hasn't been deleted by now...

BelleDameSansMerci Mon 20-Feb-12 15:39:32

Yes, odd how cunt is less offensive than fuck off... grin

Tmesis Mon 20-Feb-12 15:41:01

It's not that the guidelines have changed, but exactly what constitutes a personal attack isn't at all clear from the published version of the Talk Guidelines. In fact many things that don't seem overtly personal or attacky now appear to come under that banner. OK, probably an actual list of "what you must not say" might be counterproductive... (although I do enjoy the mental image of MNHQ thumbing through their top secret index "bilge... bitch... bog off... bollocks... yes, 'bog off' is on the list, hit the delete button". And it might give me some useful inspiration for phrases to use in RL )

I do recall plenty of use of "bog off" or similar being used (with or without aplomb) when I first joined up after DS was born seven years ago.

hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 15:41:08

So if I posted "Fuck off you cunt" it would be deleted on the grounds of the "fuck off" and not the "you cunt"?

<head hurts>

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 15:41:39

Sinical <proffers space on the dense bench™> come sit, lovey

Jux Mon 20-Feb-12 15:42:01

"We love aplomb but not with "fuck off" attached"

Oh that's not fair <whine>, I haven't used the "fuck the fuck off and when you get there fuck off some more" line yet. (Far too cowardly polite. I was girding my loins for it.....)

hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 15:42:26

Tmesis that's a valid point.

To clarify my earlier points, I think that what constitutes a personal attack and "within the spirit of the site" has been tightened up in the past few months.

hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 15:42:50

and I now expect Belle to come along and agree with me


SinicalSanta Mon 20-Feb-12 15:43:33

thanks Pinot
<plonks arse on Bench for the Bewildered>

Can MNHQ read pms?

StarlightDicKenzie Mon 20-Feb-12 15:47:33

Oh well you can all fuck the fuckity fuck off then, with your fuck between your fuck and your fuck on top of your fuck!

ClumsyClogs Mon 20-Feb-12 15:47:41

grin hathor that's not quite what I meant.... why don't you go sit with Pino and Sinical.... wink

hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 15:48:21


Which is why it's never a good idea to say "That Helen's a lush and drinks her own weight in gin every day" even in a pm

<sticks out tongue and runs away quickly>

ClumsyClogs Mon 20-Feb-12 15:48:26

grin grin grin you go McKenzie!

ShirleyO Mon 20-Feb-12 15:48:26

Yup TheOne

hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 15:49:12

Maybe I just need more brew or wine?


MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 15:49:27

They can if they want to, Hair. They probably wouldn't bother unless they were specifically looking for something (exchange of bank details, asking for money, abuse etc), so feel free to pm me anything you like grin.

They might be monitoring mine and Queens, as well as BoF's and Reality's atm

MNHQ can read private messages? Oh farkin' hell....<<goes off to write her resignation to MNHQ>> blush they cant really though....can they? <<looks at the naughty step and ponders the 55 minutes she is going to have to sit on it>>

Pagwaatch Mon 20-Feb-12 15:50:19

Oh oooh, can I sit on the bench for the bewildered?

I have been here fucking years and I never spot trolls. But I think I stay from really emotional stuff. I certainly never post anything where I would ve upset if the op turned out to be Reg posting one handed from his truck.

Could I maybe hire someone to work as a personal trolldar.

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 15:50:43

They wouldn't read yours shabba [comforting].

You are a good girl.

SinicalSanta Mon 20-Feb-12 15:51:43

Bring your laptop shabba 55 mins of MNing peace grin

deemented Mon 20-Feb-12 15:52:03

Shabbs good??? Yes, i've heard that in certain circles.... wink

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 15:53:23

Well it's all relative isn't it?

Compared to most of us on this thread she is a veritable saint grin.

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 15:53:45

<makes space for Paggers>

TheSecondComing Mon 20-Feb-12 15:53:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MamaMaiasaura Mon 20-Feb-12 15:56:03

wannaBe thanks for starting this thread

Helen thanks for explanation. I've purposefully held off reporting "trolls" as if you suggest on a thread such as the jess one that there are indescrepencies (sp) and that all may not be above board, you get jumped on. Also second leBof (think it was her) who said sometimes its a gut feeling. On future dodgy threads which make my tail tingle, I'll be reporting them.

ClumsyClogs Mon 20-Feb-12 15:56:04

Well that's a revelation. Can I sit on the bench too while I get over the shock

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 15:56:10


So if I posted "Fuck off you cunt" it would be deleted on the grounds of the "fuck off" and not the "you cunt"?

<head hurts>

No it would be deleted on the grounds of it being a personal attack. The sweariness of it doesn't matter.


Fuck off, HelenMumsnet... is a personal attack

HelenMumsnet, you are an idiot.... is a personal attack

HelenMumsnet, you are ugly... is a personal attack

HelenMumsnet, the way you're trying to explain what a personal attack is is fucking rubbish ... is NOT a personal attack (though not very civilised)

Ok thanks. Just a thought - Hectate is going to be bummed she missed this if she's not lurking. On day one of her self imposed ban too! grin

ClumsyClogs Mon 20-Feb-12 15:57:00

(Sorry bad timing, the revelation is MN reading PMs not Mama's post!)

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 15:57:10

poor Helen. Don't be so hard on yourself lovey

LilacWaltz Mon 20-Feb-12 15:57:18

Helen, oon the 'another thread banished' thread we are wondering why the first thread was deleted?? Can you come over and tell us? ( alpha course thread)

notveryinventive Mon 20-Feb-12 15:57:42

I dont know I go out for the day and everythings all changed.

Jess was the first troll I had encountered (that I know of) and even though in the first thread (towards the end) I was having suspisions I didnt like to report or say anthing for fear that I was being a nasty cow. I will take from this that I need to report anything if I feel I need to. Lesson learned smile

lynniep Mon 20-Feb-12 15:57:45

I want a 'like' button for HelenMNs last comment smile

HesterBurnitall Mon 20-Feb-12 15:59:03

One of the things that differentiated MN back when was that posts weren't deleted much, it was the only non-moderated board I knew. I thought that not moderating seemed to make people more thoughtful as they knew their words would stand while heavily moderated boards seem to create a schoolroom atmosphere.

The anti-troll hunter furore that led to troll hunting being banned was interesting too. It seemed to me that if I were a troll I would have loved that argument and done all I could to whip it up. There's a double benefit as it makes it easier to troll and, if that's not enough, it's a rule that can be used to poke and stir.

MrsDeeBee Mon 20-Feb-12 15:59:15

I never spot trolls. I always seem to get here after everything has kicked off. Maybe that's a good thing ?

I can't help it, whenever anyone says "troll" I have a picture in my head of a cute little plastic figurine with multi-coloured hair sticking up.

<<polishes her halo....smokes her pipe and spits on the floor>>

Oh yes Im a proper saint.......<<scratches her bum, picks her nose and eats it>>

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 15:59:45

HelenMumsnet, the way you're trying to explain what a personal attack is is fucking rubbish shock

<resists temptation to post Fuck off HelenMumsnet>

BelleDameSansMerci Mon 20-Feb-12 15:59:50

What hathor said. wink

hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 15:59:59

So my "Helen mumsnet drinks her own weight in gin everyday" that's ok, because it's true


Joking aside, thank you, I get it.

My way around it is to post "In the past at this point I might have posted a fuck off, but obviously that would be a personal attack and against the talk guidelines so I won't"



hathorinareddress Mon 20-Feb-12 16:01:02

Oh and I agree with Belle grin wink

MardyBra Mon 20-Feb-12 16:01:33

<wonders in how many workplaces, could you get paid to distinguish between the acceptability of different ways of telling someone to fuck off>

ClumsyClogs Mon 20-Feb-12 16:03:38

Poor Helen

<<stares at the PM box and tries hard to remember all the bitching she has done via it>> <<whistles innocently>> <<wonders if she can blame her 3 year old grandson and say HE did it>>

MardyBra Mon 20-Feb-12 16:06:51

This is a bit of a hijack, but does MNHQ have confidentiality clauses wrt to posters and their details. For example, if someone gives out personal information in PMs. Or also where you've name changed.

BeerTricksP0tter Mon 20-Feb-12 16:07:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CumpyGrunt Mon 20-Feb-12 16:07:40

I didn't even open the thread after I saw the title. hmm

Could somebody send me a PM please? I have my suspicions

notveryinventive Mon 20-Feb-12 16:08:28

<wonders how many people have googled the username for more posts by the same person>

MissPenteuth Mon 20-Feb-12 16:09:35

Any room for me on that bench? Although I did hmm at the jess thread. The use of a sadface smiley on such an emotive thread title just didn't sit right.

I have such a love/hate relationship with these trollhunty threads. On the one hand I find them fascinating in a salacious-MN-gossip kind of way. But on the other they make me feel a bit out of the loop and when people make allusions to posters they suspect might be trolls I always feel slightly worried that they mean me. Which is just silly and paranoid and probably more than a bit self-absorbed blush

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 16:11:14

<pats seat for MissP> 'ello darlin

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 16:11:48

I have to off-out now so please don't combust please and thanks

cornsilkteamdixon Mon 20-Feb-12 16:12:14

now I'm worried in case you all think I'm the troll.

SinicalSanta Mon 20-Feb-12 16:12:17

budges up for MissPenteuth

The bench is getting full. Think we need two. smile

Sposh Mon 20-Feb-12 16:12:56

I was deleted yesterday (my first deletion, waheyy!) for calling someone an arsehole.

She was an arsehole, though. Probably still is.

MegIet Mon 20-Feb-12 16:14:25

It was the title that made me think it was a bit iffy, so I avoided it.

I suppose if I'd bothered to read it and found people were really being sucked in I would have realised and reported it. [Unhelpful].

MildlyNarkyPuffin Mon 20-Feb-12 16:14:32

I'm so glad that it's all been deleted.

It was one of the things that made me take a break from MN. I posted early on, but it did become obvious that the OP wasn't actually taking advice and was just seeking attention. I started to get upset at all the posters sharing their stories, offering genuine help and emotionally investing in her.

I tried to do the MN thing of benefit of the doubt and accepting that troll threads can result in good advice being given to lurkers, but the whole thing became like emotional vampirism.

TheSecondComing Mon 20-Feb-12 16:15:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

notveryinventive Mon 20-Feb-12 16:15:02

Me too corn Even though Ive been on MN since 09 Ive only been posting regularly since around christmas time under this name so I am aware that maybe people dont know me.

NaughtyMrChicken Mon 20-Feb-12 16:17:02

I don't usually spot trolls at all. But with the Jess thread, aside from the dramatic changes when interest was waning, she seemed to make a big thing about gathering 'followers' and making sure she had another thread to send them to.

She also reminded me of those people a couple of years ago(?) that were going to let the public vote on whether she kept her pregnancy or had a TOP. it included updates about baby kicking etc. Turned out they were from a pro-life group IIRC hmm

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 16:17:56

while I am sure that mn hq have the ability to read pm's if they need to, I highly doubt they do so on a regular basis, simplyo n the basis that they don't have enough time to keep up with threads let alone users' personal correspondence.

Think about it. there are over half a million regitered users on mn, how much time do you think it would take to read through pm's.

now, whoever is sending them out, I'll have one too please. wink

shabba oh you're not as saintly as me - I've never been "forbidden" wink yet

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 16:17:59


<wonders in how many workplaces, could you get paid to distinguish between the acceptability of different ways of telling someone to fuck off>

I know. How do you think I should phrase that on my CV, Mardy?

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 16:21:36

You can give me an eighty-five per cent penetration any time, TSC.

Frontpaw Mon 20-Feb-12 16:21:53

No - it did smell a bit though. These ones usually just don't sound quite right. I am not sure if its the language or way they are written but they dont ring true.

I get annoyed when posters put their hearts on their sleeves (and some of the stories are really heartbreaking) to try to help or give advice and it turns out to be a big joke. The sad thing is that if someone gets their fingers burned, they may think twice before helping out someone who really is genuine.

MardyBra Mon 20-Feb-12 16:23:17

"Extensive background in advanced crowd control management" might sound better than "expert in use of fuck off". grin

LtEveDallas Mon 20-Feb-12 16:25:10

See I am really confused now - I had a post deleted on Saturday that said something like "Actually XXXnameXXX a personal attack is[..] if MN wants [..] - but that's a little two-faced of you isn't it?"

I was deleted and asked why, and was told that the two faced comment was a personal attack. I was calling XXXnameXXX two faced.

To me the two-faced bit was a question, not an attack. And more like Helen's fourth example than the other three.

(I always thought I was good at English, and at explaining myself - now I'm blush and confused.)

BeerTricksP0tter Mon 20-Feb-12 16:26:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrsreplicant Mon 20-Feb-12 16:27:33

There needs to be a full equal opportunities stylee appeal system against deletions.

And warnings need to go to a tribunal.

usualsuspect Mon 20-Feb-12 16:27:55

The private bit is not true [bitter]

BeerTricksP0tter Mon 20-Feb-12 16:29:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeerTricksP0tter Mon 20-Feb-12 16:32:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 16:36:44

I have in the past reported messages on the grounds they were personal attacks (and tbh it has to be pretty bad for me to report) only to be told that "while we agree it's a personal attack, we don't feel it's appropriate to delete it at this stage because of other content or the post" or some such.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 16:37:08


There needs to be a full equal opportunities stylee appeal system against deletions.

And warnings need to go to a tribunal.

Only if I can wear a wig and use an actual <gavel>

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 20-Feb-12 16:37:53


I have in the past reported messages on the grounds they were personal attacks (and tbh it has to be pretty bad for me to report) only to be told that "while we agree it's a personal attack, we don't feel it's appropriate to delete it at this stage because of other content or the post" or some such.

Really? <readies P45s>

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 16:39:03

I don't think they would look at anyone's BeerTricks, unless they were looking for concrete evidence of something seriously untoward - which is why I gave the example of someone looking for money.

Imagine having to trawl through all our waffle-y bollocks shock. I doubt they get paid enough for that.

NaughtyMrChicken Mon 20-Feb-12 16:42:02

I'll do it for free MaryZ


NaughtyMrChicken Mon 20-Feb-12 16:43:45

I feel I should qualify that statement as it makes me sound freakishly nosey/weird.

I am freakishly nosey/weird


everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 16:44:39

I'm not arsed about the silly airy fairy trolls.

Making stuff about their houses, shoe collections, second homes. Not a bit.

Only the trolls that suck people in, get people to open their hearts, give their own experience of a tragic, vulnerable situation.

Those are the ones that cause the damage and piss me off.

Also just because someone has a profile with lots of information and even photos doesn't necessarily mean they are bone fide.

Just saying.

HesterBurnitall Mon 20-Feb-12 16:45:28

I've had this in the past.

From: "Mumsnet Towers" <>
Date: 7 February 2011 8:30:52 AM AEDT
Subject: Re: (Case 42984) 23649687

Hi there,

Thanks for contacting us.

We agree that this thread/post is in poor taste but we don't tend to delete on those grounds because it would be really hard to know where to draw the line.

The truth is, we don't think we should be the arbiters of what people should find offensive and what they shouldn't. On the whole, we think it's better to let the boards self police in these instances, as it's very rare that a tasteless comment is left unchallenged.


BeerTricksP0tter Mon 20-Feb-12 16:45:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HesterBurnitall Mon 20-Feb-12 16:47:35

Argh, hit post too soon, reply was for a comment that was beyond what's deleted now. What's changed that self-policing isn't seen as the way to go anymore?

HesterBurnitall Mon 20-Feb-12 16:53:28

And MNHQ, I only meant to the last bit about self-policing but am clumsy on an iPad. Please delete if you'd rather not have the whole email up.

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 16:55:13

If you switch to mobile view, it's much easier to C&P, for some strange reason, Hester.

HesterBurnitall Mon 20-Feb-12 16:56:09

I'm in mobile, BOF, I'm sadly just crap at it anyway.

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 16:56:49

everlong I agree entirely re "just because a user has a profile with pictures"... (or whatever your wording was).

I also think that one should be careful of going down the line of saying that just because someone is a regular poster they can't be a troll.

My vampiric troll from the site where I moderate was a regular. She had in fact herself been a moderator of said site (which is probably how she got away with it for so long). She had a regular, well-known account that had details about who she actually is. She is a real person. She has a real life, a job, a twitter account, a blog and a partner. And then she has lots of personas (I know of at least four, and two others that relate to one of them, but am told there have been more).

And she is of course friends with her personas. So when she came on and posted that one of them had tragically died people were so so sympathetic and upset. When she logged into that persona's account the mods (I was not one of them at the time) thought nothing of it when they asked her why and she explained that the family wanted to know if there had been any pm's etc as she had committed suicide.

She gives her troll personas credibility because she vouches for them under her real name, her real identity.

Rudawakening Mon 20-Feb-12 17:03:07

I Can often tell the big trolls like the Jess thread, at first I was a bit hmmm, maybe it's just me as I'm very cynical but when she started second thread for 'all her followers' it was obvious.

The ones I tend not to spot are the normal ones so if someone could PM me what TSC was on about that would be great, because emotionally I can't afford to get sucked in so would like a heads up, don't have friends on here sad so have no one else to ask or tell

BeerTricksP0tter Mon 20-Feb-12 17:10:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RabidEchidna Mon 20-Feb-12 17:18:10

Has MNHQ re-stocked the gin now?

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 17:19:09

I think they deserve a packet of fags to,

TheSecondComing Mon 20-Feb-12 17:19:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rudawakening Mon 20-Feb-12 17:21:11

I know beer I try not to, it's why I don't post a lot, and I'd never offer money coz I'm tight because I couldn't be 100% sure where it was going to but I've knitted and donated wool for the blankets.

It's just right now I'm stressed with work and tired and less likely to pick up something, I have no will power when tired!

RabidEchidna Mon 20-Feb-12 17:22:41

Do you think there is something in the air, or a full moon or something as MN seems to have been add of late confused

RabidEchidna Mon 20-Feb-12 17:23:01

ODD even blush

notveryinventive Mon 20-Feb-12 17:26:17

Thinking about it when a thread gets deleted does the OP get a messages telling them and why? just curious. I didnt get an email when my post was deleted.

Methe Mon 20-Feb-12 17:30:20

So Jess was a troll?

There's a surprise eh! hmm

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 17:30:21

I didn't get told.

That was first deletion too. On a bloody troll thread I ask ya!

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 17:34:38

tbh I think there is a formua:

- troll has very emotive story, i.e. pregnant by abusive partner, in abusive relationship has been through serious trauma such as rape, or suffering from serious illness (just by way of examples.

- very happy to share the most intimate details of their situation, with sharing increasing as the story unfolds

- posts in the midst of the drama e.g. "oh, I am locked out of the house and h won't let me in/h/bf hit me and now I'm bleeding/having contractions and am just so so so scared," or even befriending someone to do this on their behalf, dizzymare did this, and texted another mn'er to say she was on her way to the hospital.

- encouraging users to post e.g. "I might not be saying much, but I am reading all your posts," or even again pretending to be a friend (sockpuppet) "x doesn't feel she can read this thread at the moment because it' too painful, but I will read your messages to her,". My troll did this - she was in a coma and her "sister" was posting from her twitter account saying "I want you to know she is in a coma, I will read her tweets to her, knowing how much enjoyment she gets from them,"

it's very emotionally charged language designed to provoke a response...

Kayzr Mon 20-Feb-12 17:37:08

I never put it together in my head to think of Dizzymare but now it seems so bloody obvious. Everything seems so similar now. sad

TheSecondComing Mon 20-Feb-12 17:39:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

notveryinventive Mon 20-Feb-12 17:41:26

TSC who says that Jess on here is the same person on ebay? She might be someone who sold to Jess and stole her username? I found her on ebay too, but did wonder if she is someone who just stole the username.

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 17:42:44

I think that if it were just jess that would be plausible, but all the numbers after just make it less so IMO

TheSecondComing Mon 20-Feb-12 17:44:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 17:50:38

I do think scottishmummy has a point about all this you know grin. It is all words on a page (though it is almost impossible to accept that when people are talking about things you care about).

I wouldn't be surprised if any poster turned out to be Not What They Seemed.

In fact, after years on here I wouldn't be surprised to find out I was a troll grin. Except I'm too thick and disorganised to keep enough balls in the air and keep all my stories straight hmm, so I would out myself.

TheLightPassenger Mon 20-Feb-12 17:50:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheSecondComing Mon 20-Feb-12 18:00:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I am not surprised to find out that Jess was not all she seemed.
But saddened and angry tbh.
I did not post but read a fair bit of her threads and so many people invested their time, experiences and offered advice/help.

I agree with wannabe that a bit more info from MNHQ is helpful and gives a sense of 'closure'.

Dizzymare never occured to me... <<slaps forehead>>

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 18:12:17

I agree absolutely TSC. I got badly burned here a few years ago, and have been much, much more sceptical since. But I don't agree I'm a self-styled arbiter/prefect - in fact I got a stern email from Helen for my behaviour on the recent multiple persona debacle which shows that I'm very aware that there a numerous harmful trolls on here (or one exceptionally prolific one).

I get really cross at the ones on relationships and bereavement in particular (there is one I know has been reported about 20 times), so I don't really believe the words on a page thing myself, I just think it is probably a good way of looking at it, if you can bring yourself to do so.

I don't, however, mind how much rl and how much imagination goes into poster's posts on chat/aibu/random crap threads. It doesn't bother me at all, because I suspect many of them are either exaggerated or one-sided (hence my example of "omg, the teacher told my pfb to fuck off") - those types of threads can be amusing and do very little harm in the greater scheme of things.

deemented Mon 20-Feb-12 18:13:18

From my own point of view as a bereaved mum, it's not often that i can talk openly about my ds1. But to find a place such as the bereaved mums thread here on MN, well.. it's kind of a lifeline. To be able to go on there and speak honestly, truthfully and frankly, and know you're amongst people who actually get it, well, imo it's something special.

I got sucked in by Dizzymare. I'll openly admit it - i fell for it hook, line and sinker. I believed what she said. In my defence, i was at a vulnerable point in my life - newly pregnant, with a new partner, totally confused and lost, and she fed on that i think. I opened up to her, shared experiences with her and boy did i feel like a twat when she was outed.

But you know what? I'd likely do it again - the being open and sharing experiences bit - because if it helps another person going through a similar thing feel a bit better, then it's got to be worth it.

Though, saying that, the whole Dizzymare thing, and later the SassySusan thing, well it's hardened me up somewhat too, made me a bit cynical. I don't post as often nor as openly on the bereaved mums board as i used to, Shabbs will tell you that.

Codandchops Mon 20-Feb-12 18:14:34

Sassysusan was not a troll though - or at least not in the sassysusan guise. Have followed her blog for a long time and she had another baby last year.

bibbitybobbityhat Mon 20-Feb-12 18:15:06


everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 18:16:01

I agree tsc

When my ds committed suicide just over 3 years ago I did post shortly after on the bereavement board. I think I did it because even though I'm not a well known poster or in any quiche I like the people here and I felt like un burdening.

I got some amazing support. From people that had been affected by suicide, by people that lost their child/ren and from people who were saddened by my post. It helped tremendously to be able to pour my heart out. And I have made some lovely friends from this terrible situation.

What was hopefully different from my posts to a troll is that it didn't go from one drama to another with me crying for attention.

What I'm trying to say is that yes there will be more posts to come in the future from a bereaved mum or a woman in a domestic violence situation or someone that has been raped and what we don't want to become is a group that doubt everyone.

Mumsnet is a good place, let's keep it that way.

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 18:16:01

Oh, dear.

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 18:17:00

X post with dee

deemented Mon 20-Feb-12 18:17:46

I agree that SS wasn't a troll on the bereaved mums board, but it's proven she had been a troll previously. I think she had been a troll, and then when the worst thing that could happen to someone did, i think she came back here because she knew that it was the best place to get support and understanding. I don't think she ever intended for her previous trollery to come out - it only did by chance.


deemented Mon 20-Feb-12 18:19:14

Why the hmm PD?

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 18:21:51

Who's the face at?

Cod - I do believe that Sassy had a child that died....but she posted under so many different names....she caused massive problems across many threads. You just had to wait for her to loose her temper and the minute she started to post when she was angry you could spot her even if you had a blindfold on. Her and Dizzy have hardened my attitude to giving help....I will always help anyone especially if they have lost a child....its just that now I take much more care in my replies on MN. I think there are still times now that I am taken for a complete fool by people who are not what they appear to be on the bereavement threads. Sometimes you have to think about your own emotional health, as selfish as that might sound.

Codandchops Mon 20-Feb-12 18:28:17

Ah, I wasn't aware of all that, just remember the bereavement stuff and believed in her. Now it's mentioned I do remember Washwithcare...

Also wasn't there the really weird one (not SS or WWC) who called herself Mrswoodhouse or some such name and posted some very questionable stuff. Good few years back now - oh and JudgeFlounce who turned out to be a hairy trucker from Wales IIRC. Ve

Really do not understand why people do this kind of thing.

Sorry, the sceptical face was re sassysusan not being a troll - my understanding was that certain things she posted about were true and others were not.

I totally agree with the the above advice about only posting what does not 'cost' you too much. There are aspects about my reproductive history I am happy to talk about, here and in RL, and others that I keep properly private.

I think looking after you own emotional health is not at all selfish, just common sense and a responsible thing thing to do tbh.

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 18:32:54

I think in truth we will never know whether sassysusan was real or not. Just because someone has a blog means nothing. And even the fact that there apparently was a child (down to newspaper obituaries etc that were linked to at the time) doesn't mean that that person was the actual mother of the child who had died. It is incredibly easy to take on someone else's story. And tbh I don't think mn hq would have been so quick to ban her, and iirc delete all of her posts, if they weren't absolutely certain that she was a troll. Even if it had been proven she had previously trolled here I think that mn hq would have given the benefit of the doubt. After all, we need never have known that she had been wwc, we could just have remained oblivious and just thought SS was a fairly unpleasant individual (and she was unpleasant, regardless of what she might have been through). I am going to stick my neck out and say I think it's more likely that the real bereaved mother became aware that her story had been stolen, possibly through mn hq's intervention, possibly because of someone on here, I remember there were people talking about contacting vicars and such at the time, and that mn hq decided to out her completely, which is, to be fair, a completely unprecedented step on their part.

Wise words Wannabe x

My DS4 (aged 14) has the right idea. I was on his laptop and he asked what was I doing....'just trying to find out if this poster is for real or not.' He looked at their posts and then said - with a face like this hmm 'Mother (usually calls me Mum but was angry with me) 'Of course that is a troll....then he closed the laptop on my hands and said 'DO.....NOT....COMMENT....DO....NOT....FEED....THE....TROLL!!'

<<snigger>> I got in trouble from a teenager!!

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 18:37:06

Mmm good points.

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 18:42:07

codandchops there have been quite a few over the years. And on some weird level they do fascinate me which is probably why I remember them.

Judge flounce was before my time, but iirc he/she/it also had a child who had died.

I think my first experience of a troll was the fox troll whose other name I don't recall, but she was escaping an abusive relationship in Japan, users had clubbed together to get her clothes/money/toys for her children/somewhere to stay. She claimed her dh was something in the British Embacy and that she couldn't leave Japan - someone even suggested getting her a fake passport! shock I don't remember how ait allcame about but a poster somehow got in touch with her mother and it turned out it was all fabricated. she'd also trolled here previous to that, and a mn'er had met her in rl and held her baby while she packed a suitcase to leave her abusive h. shock hmm all fabricated. the fallout was massive and posters left mn because of it.

RabidEchidna Mon 20-Feb-12 18:42:20

I remember the troll who said she was pregnant and her husband had beaten her because the house was a mess and she was posting between cleaning the house, she then went on to go in to premature labour and have a little girl who she called hope, was that dizzymare??? I think there were even photos of "her baby", but that was one sick troll

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Mon 20-Feb-12 18:43:30

I think its a bit unfair that SS keeps coming up the the troll threads.
That CP thread was important and got through to even the most dunderheaded the importance of not taking your poxy child out where ever you damn well wanted to.

I dont know what she did before and I dont care. She didnt make up a dead child though and I dont like the way this seems to have entered into MN history. The fact that she came on the scene so soon after Dizzymare, who hurt so many lovely people, seems to have made them synonymous (sp) to many when there isnt any connection.

This post is not directed at you Shabs and I know you had a terrible time with the Dizzymare thing.

My god my brains are on fire. One troll came on multiple births and bereavement - had very late miscarried twin girls...put pictures on of them. DS4 again!! - found the picture on an NHS site about twins.....she had nicked it and used it....that could have been Dizzy....she was always getting beaten up and locked in the house and...........<<yawn>>

Thanks Mrs D. I do believe that Sassy lost her little girl. I did try defending her to anybody who would listen. BUT it all got a bit scary - I got many angry phone calls from her telling me what people were saying about her. She does un-nerve me. xx

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 18:49:40

<pours shabs a big cider>

<<downs it in one>> <<hic>>

RabidEchidna Mon 20-Feb-12 18:51:47

Shabba, I do remember that now but I don't think that is the one I am thinking of, but yes I do remember that poster now. I remember the photos

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 18:52:39

rabid I can't remember who that poster was but she was outed fairly quickly when hunker pointed out that the picture of her baby was a picture from the internet. interestingly she'd overlooked the fact the picture had a caption underneath it. hmm

RabidEchidna Mon 20-Feb-12 18:55:44

I also remember all the misleading and quite frankly dangerous calpol advice that was scary

PMSL was it Dizzy? Cant remember - in fact I think my brain doesn't want to.....DS4 just looks at me....copies and pastes stuff that I am asking about then googles it - he then tuts at me and goes back to killing zombies on his Wii <<snigger>>

If we're doing a roll call lets not forget Mozhe the watersking, nanny employing mother of <<drumroll>> a premature baby!

RabidEchidna Mon 20-Feb-12 18:57:15

Shabba is your DS4 my DS1? Sounds soooooo like my DS1 grin

<<Waves hello to Northern and pours another pint of cider out>>

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 18:57:37

Don't remember that one northern sounds like an odd one!

catinboots Mon 20-Feb-12 18:58:38

stoopid blimmin poxy work

it all goes on in the day

I miss all the best stuff on here. All I get is the what's for supper threads

RabidEchidna Mon 20-Feb-12 18:59:05

My sister was a prem baby, should mother have hired a watersking nanny?

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 18:59:22

oh yes, who could forget mozhe. The worst thing about her was that when she posted she was going waterskiing while the twins were in scbu loads of people said "good on you have a lovely time!" shock

More than likely - he thinks he is such the computer wizard....<<tut>> when he is explaining stuff to me he says it like I say stuff like 'which is the 'any' key!!! I think he also loves having parents who are the same age as most of his friends grandparents grin Oh the joys of being an older Mum!!!

Tmesis Mon 20-Feb-12 19:03:02

I did wonder whether mozhe was created specifically to wind up Xenia -- she used to follow her around on threads agreeing furiously on all the issues around being a successful driven career-focused woman with a large family and the foolishness of young women who requested flexible or part-time working.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Mon 20-Feb-12 19:03:35

I remember the waterskier. I thought it was because it was MNs and it was posh on here grin. I just thought 'boy I am waaaay out of my depth here, these people are weird' but darent say anything because so many people thought it was all perfectly normal!

BelleDameSansMerci Mon 20-Feb-12 19:08:17

Since we're mentioning actual "trolls we have loved" what really happened with the Romany one(s)?

RabidEchidna Mon 20-Feb-12 19:09:13

So can we have a mumsnet bridge hall of fame now grin

StarlightDicKenzie Mon 20-Feb-12 19:09:49

Omg, I'd c

StarlightDicKenzie Mon 20-Feb-12 19:11:28

Omg, I'd completely forgotten about mohze.

Mozhe must have been 2007/2008 when I was new round here.

She was planning to leave the baby (I think it was just one but it was ds5 or some such) in the incubator with his dad looking in on him every day whilst she took the family to the caribbean. Said she'd be a much better mother after some watersking. grin

MerryMarigold Mon 20-Feb-12 19:11:57

Wow, didn't know mozhe was a troll, I remember 'her'.

Kayzr Mon 20-Feb-12 19:12:21

I don't remember JudgeFlounce, it was either before my time or when I was too scared to leave the safety of the March 07 thread.

I do remember CVQ and Dizzymare. I am sure there was another fairly 'big' troll but I can't remember their name.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss Mon 20-Feb-12 19:12:32

Its so sad that people need to troll about bereavement or abuse to get attention/kicks, it drAws attention away from people who really need it and make people sceptical and less inclined to help. Even the more amusing ones, like the poo troll do damage. There are people out there who genuinely do have some of the problems that 'Winnie' reports to have, but can you imagine the uproar if they started a thread about it? So a whole section of people who may need support could potentially not get it because some nut case trolls about picking poo nuggets out of his bum! confused
It's very sad. sad

SaggyOldClothCatPuss Mon 20-Feb-12 19:16:10
RabidEchidna Mon 20-Feb-12 19:18:31

lovely bridge Saggy, just lovely.... how many trolls do you think we can fit under it?

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 19:18:52

ethanchristopher was fairly big too - in fact wasn't cvq sort of outed on the ethanchristopher outing thread? although lots of posters had had their suspicions about her for a long time..

And there was izzyRuby - the modelling one - the police were involved in that one.

Tmesis Mon 20-Feb-12 19:18:54

I don't think the twins were ever in SCBU. The twins were older IIRC and it was baby #6 who was in SCBU.

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 19:20:16

Oh yeah I do remember Ethanchristopher. God there's been a fair few!

Kayzr Mon 20-Feb-12 19:23:43

I am sure someone went to meet CVQ. I remember sitting for hours reading a refreshing that thread.

StarlightDicKenzie Mon 20-Feb-12 19:25:34

Wasn't mohze supposed to be a practising psychologist?

Pagwaatch Mon 20-Feb-12 19:25:35

I loved the water skiing thread.
It was bloody marvellous.

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 19:26:14

thing is, I wonder how many there are that we don't know about - that have never been outed. There must be some.

RubyrooUK Mon 20-Feb-12 19:26:24

I did a job in RL that involved telephone counselling a few years ago and I couldn't believe when I started (so naive) that we got so many phone trolls with stories that were not true.

I remember spending five hours on one call with a man who had been abused by his aunt. I felt terribly terribly sad right up until he went "this isn't real you thick bitch!" and slammed the phone down.

It did get to the point when you knew from about a couple of sentences in which were likely to be true and which would be fake. I always treated them all as true though because it would have been worse to make someone in real need feel bad than anything else.

I now have a hall of fame of the most crazy and outlandish stories told by those trolls stored in my mind though. smile

Starlight - a practicing twat in need of a psychologist would have been closer to the truth......grin

Personally think, Wannabe, there are many.

Portofino Mon 20-Feb-12 19:27:15

Yes - someone did - it caused her loads of shit. CVQ used a lot of info that she'd shared with her.

Well there's the poster with many children inc twins who disappeared in a poof of smoke one day. Apparently outed in Rl - but that was odd because she had shared a hell of a lot of identifying info for someone worried about that.....

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 19:29:19

Oh yeah I would imagine there are a few out there, watching us right now hmm

Kayzr Mon 20-Feb-12 19:29:34

There was a big one just before Xmas one year too. I remember sending money, a present for her DC and a big box of chocolates to them.

It wasn't JJ last year but a few years ago. I just can't think of their name on here.


StarlightDicKenzie Mon 20-Feb-12 19:31:05

Weren't the Mouldies all trolls? wink

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 19:32:18

I believe SassySusan is real too. She's not particularly nice though, even to people trying to be sympathetic to her. I guess that bereavement doesn't only touch affable types.

Who was IzzyRuby?

Kayzr Mon 20-Feb-12 19:32:22

Yeah that was it Northern. I felt like a complete twat after that.

MamaMaiasaura Mon 20-Feb-12 19:32:36

Kay - was it beginning with L? Wonder if L still lurks

MamaMaiasaura Mon 20-Feb-12 19:33:04

X posts with northern

MamaMaiasaura Mon 20-Feb-12 19:35:44

I remember one who had twins and then went water ski ing. She was awful and I got so much stick calling troll

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 19:38:34

thewiltedrose still comes back from time to time doesn't she?

bof izzyruby inhabited the child modelling threads. she had a website for childmodelling mums, claiming to offer advice on the right agencies to go to etc. She met up with lots of the posters from here in rl, she did picture of the week on her website and such and so a lot of posters sent her pictures of their kids. Then she was banned because after having slagged of aa modelling agency on here the agency came on and said she'd never used them and they'd never taken on her child. But lots of the posters still defended her - some were even moderators on her own website.

Then it all went very quiet, and then one day misdee posted a link to an article in the times, about how it was suspected she had set up the website and befriended other mums to encourage them to send her pictures of their children, which she then sold to paedophiles to be doctored for their hideous means. shock sad iirc the police couldn't find enough to charge her at the time, and by then she'd fled to Brazille.

notveryinventive Mon 20-Feb-12 19:45:15

shock at izzyruby

<wonders if I should take my children's pictures off my profile>

deemented Mon 20-Feb-12 19:50:43

Absolutely,*Everlong*, absofuckinglutely.

I still like the 'There Are Other Life Lines' quote, and i've used it on occasion. Am quite tempted now, tbh.

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 20:00:57

Yeah that's a good un dee wink

ArtexMonkey Mon 20-Feb-12 20:10:36

"bof izzyruby inhabited the child modelling threads. she had a website for childmodelling mums, claiming to offer advice on the right agencies to go to etc. She met up with lots of the posters from here in rl, she did picture of the week on her website and such and so a lot of posters sent her pictures of their kids. Then she was banned because after having slagged of aa modelling agency on here the agency came on and said she'd never used them and they'd never taken on her child. But lots of the posters still defended her - some were even moderators on her own website. "

That is just shock

See this is what annoys me about when people go 'ooh trollhunters are as bad as the trolls'. Um, no. Ethanchristopher iirc was always posting stuff like 'i would like to meet other young mums like me, pm me let's email, let's meet up'; this jess was brandishing phone numbers and emails round with hours of first setting foot here. It is really really sinister when people in the midst of high drama start initiating off board contact; it's a way of targeting people who are susceptible for whatever reason and spinning them a line away from the gaze of the more cynical/detached people.

OracleInaCoracle Mon 20-Feb-12 20:12:42

What artex said!

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 20:13:10

Aww dee that's a real shame that it stops you postly as freely as before, but I understand why.

Great thread, very interesting and useful. Thanks HQ for letting it stand.

HQ are open about the fact they can read PM's, but they can only deal with what they find, so the onus is on the individual. Agree a better term would be DM/Direct Message. That's a wise idea.

I feel like I've learnt loads about this today, I've gone from feeling stupid and gullible to feeling ready to challenge <flexes Report button>

Pinot Mon 20-Feb-12 20:15:07

I'm still on the Dense Bench™, but now with perhaps just the one butt cheek <nice image>

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 20:17:40

I agree Pinot mnhq have 'done good' today.

I'm still waiting for an email back though wink <understands that they will have inundated>

deemented Mon 20-Feb-12 20:17:40

I now have images of sweaty buttcheeks.

Thanks for that, Pinot

BeerTricksP0tter Mon 20-Feb-12 20:25:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ArtexMonkey Mon 20-Feb-12 20:26:57

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 20:28:32

ROFL gringringrin

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 20:30:59

They're all probably having a knees up wouldn't blame them

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 20:31:41

grin artex

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Mon 20-Feb-12 20:43:45

No need to hide lunatic. I agree with you.

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 20:45:47

<confused> but I thought SS was outed as a troll by mnhq?

deemented Mon 20-Feb-12 20:49:46

everlong - she was, but in a previous guise as WashWithCare, who used to troll. There was never any proof that she had trolled as SassySusan, though i agree with others that she wasn't a very nice person.

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 20:51:39

I see dee

OracleInaCoracle Mon 20-Feb-12 20:52:13

What dee said <sycophant>

bibbitybobbityhat Mon 20-Feb-12 20:53:07

We had a troll on here once who several mumsnetters had met more than once (at a regular meetup) who got everyone here going with her story which was also in the national press.

It was all made up.

That's the thing though, isn't it: you can be a troll with some of the things you post and not others. I do believe SS had lost a child and totally agree that she was Angry, big time - but she also exploited some other posters and was not entirely thruthful.

<<sprinkles talc on sweaty butcheeks>>

Bugger. I've been away all weekend and now don't know what you're all talking about. If anyone feels like PMing me, I'd be ever so, ever so grateful <bats eyelashes>

Ooh, bibbity. Now I want to know about that, too. And whoever the 'ramp it up' troll is. But you can keep the wanking one.

TheSecondComing Mon 20-Feb-12 21:03:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

historyrepeats Mon 20-Feb-12 21:03:31

OMG 'jess' was a troll? shock

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VivianDarkbloom Mon 20-Feb-12 21:05:52

dizzymare? confused She seems innocent enough, what's she done?

<flexes fingers restraining from requesting a PM>

Lunatic I defended Sassy to the hilt when MN said she was a troll. I believe her little girl existed. Then she was outed as a troll on here, before her daughter sadly passed away. I got texts and calls from her screaming at me telling me she could read everything people were saying about her - she could contact me because stupidly I gave her my number. I was left confused and wondering what the truth was.

.........don't even get me started on Dizzy Mare <<shudder>>

TheSecondComing Mon 20-Feb-12 21:10:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 21:10:58

I saw a young woman breastfeeding on a bus recently. Then I heard an old lady shrieking "How dare you do that in public, you filthy beast!".

In retrospect it was neither the time nor place for a wank.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Mon 20-Feb-12 21:11:19

Viv I think you might be mixing two people up. Isnt there someone with a similar name? I think it caused a bit of confused for a while.

TrueRomance28 Mon 20-Feb-12 21:11:37

Trolls? The only trolls I've ever heard of live under bridges hangs forum newbie head in shame confused

That was not very clear - she was trolling on here quite a long time before she lost her DD - it was the earlier incidents that got her kicked off MN - NOT anything to do with her DD.

Vivienne....I really, really, really hope that is a joke about Dizzymare.....

JerichoStarQuilt Mon 20-Feb-12 21:14:47

grin Bof.

VivianDarkbloom Mon 20-Feb-12 21:14:52

Oh. I must have her mixed up.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Mon 20-Feb-12 21:16:35

I dont really want to carry on with the SS thing too much but I really think that whole outing stuff had terrible timing.

It got the death of her beloved DD mixed up with a whole heap of shit that I know nothing about and its all been piled into one big lump of trollness.

I dont think she deserves that. I cant imagine how I would feel if a load of people were carrying on about how I had made up my DD and what happened to her. I think I would have gone bonkers.

It was particularly heartbreaking as it gave people an excuse to discount all the true and important stuff said on that particular thread. The thread was on a subject that was very important to a quite a few of us.

Portofino Mon 20-Feb-12 21:24:15

I believe that SS's bereavement was genuine. She was very unpleasant to many people though and made some really unnecessary comments on her blog.

lorcana Mon 20-Feb-12 21:25:30

I gave the Jess character what I thought was useful advice about where she could go for help /support whether or NOT she was pregnant - and THAT was deleted ?? Why ??

MissAnnersley Mon 20-Feb-12 21:26:02

I agree with you MrsDeVere.

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 21:28:19

WashWithCare did some damage on the breastfeeding threads, as well as many random threads. In fact a lot of her posts are still there (the nastier ones are gone).

And she used to go off on one like SS. She would pick someone fairly innocent who had made an innocuous point on a thread and she would really attack them, and go on and on and on, twisting their words, and being really nasty.

She was just horrible - I had a couple of runins with her, and with two other posters who had the same type of attitude on other subjects and were around at the same time.

I suspect they were all the same person. So when SS did the attacking thing, it was obvious to me that she was likely to be another version. She may have lost a child, but sadly she was really awful all over the board sad.

And I'm pretty sure that at one stage, after she appeared as SS who was bereaved, WWC was still posting on other threads at the same time. So she continued to be unpleasant. And mumsnet hq confirmed they were the same poster, which is unusual.

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 21:29:06

Sorry, I x-posted there MrsdeV. I think if you didn't see the WWC threads, it would be hard to understand the anger against SS.

Trolling isn't only about making things up. It's about upsetting people too. Sassysusan undoubtedly upset people. Fwiw when the whole thing blew up I thought as Wannabe said she had 'stolen' the whole tragedy.
I don't think that about Susan anymore - but I do think a lot of that sort of thing goes on sadly.

deemented Mon 20-Feb-12 21:34:20

And is still going on , NorthernLurker

Valpollicella Mon 20-Feb-12 21:37:31

My first encounter with a troll on here was Hillls - the anorexic poster who 'died' and then got her 'friend' to post that she had died.

I remember being shock when the story was picked apart over an afternoon unfolding.

Oh, I remember the BFing on a bus one. There were lots of sad faces <another trait of the bridge dweller underer>

LeBOF Mon 20-Feb-12 21:39:56

Shit things happen to horrible people too. It just doesn't seem like it most of the time.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MaryZ Mon 20-Feb-12 21:44:01

I'm not talking about after the "outing", Lunatic. I mean the earlier versions with different names were really awful. There is a WWC thread about breastfeeding still standing, and that was one of the milder ones.

The fall-out from SS's banning was particularly terrible for the bereaved parents because of all the assumption that it was all a pack of lies, whereas there was never any evidence of that, either way.

What MaryZ said re SS/WWC.

I don't mind the funny trolls who usually out themselves grin.
And I don't for the life of me understand the vampiric ones - they really deserve to be put in the stocks.

I vaguely remember being sucked into a troll's story when I first came on here, no real harm done, just was left feeling really stupid and humiliated for being so naive.
I cannot begin to imagine what it must feel like if someone is taken in by a nasty troll seeking out victims in sensitive subjects. But I am not sure what could be done to avoid that from happening: people DO find themselves in difficult situations which sometimes escalate, people DO suffer sad bereavements, people DO have problems with their MIL/a will/their sexual health. I am with those of you who'd rather give the benefit of the doubt towards the poster - or Not Post. And report, of course <<bows to MNHQ>>.
I do find Not Posting v rewarding at times - 'tis like car-crash TV: no injury to self, all the breathless excitement <<shallow>> grin.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Mon 20-Feb-12 21:47:35

Since the awful troll on the bereaved parents website I am a member of I tend to be a googler. I dont do it to pry or to sneak. I do it to set my mind at rest a bit.
If a story doesnt come up I wont automatically discount a story and I wouldnt mention it on a thread. I dont want anyone to think I am checking up on them through malice, I wouldnt do that. BUT that troll did a HUGE amount of damage on that site. They changed it completely and its a lot less accessible than it used to be. It is harder to join and parents now have to give quite detailed information about their loss. This puts some off from joining and they miss out on some fantastic support.
That is a shocking price to pay for one twisted little cow's sick fantasy.

I hope that doesnt make me sound like a bitch. I tend to lean to the 'well if I reach out and they turn out to be a troll I havent lost anything by being nice' anyway.

Not a bitch at all, MrsD. Quite restrained, actually.

Sevenfold Mon 20-Feb-12 21:53:42

Wannabe, do you remember that troll on the sn board, who brought my dd a pc?

Haribos Mon 20-Feb-12 21:54:55

The Poo troll was annoying but in a childish way at least it was slightly funny.
What this troll has posted about is not funny. Its cruel.
I feel sorry for those people who did share private emotions and offered real life help.
Next time a genuine person is in a similar but real situation on here, Mumsnetters will now be more careful about helping and that's a shame as I think the support women give each other on here can be fantastic.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bibbitybobbityhat Mon 20-Feb-12 21:56:23

No, my post about the troll who lots of mnetters had met wasn't connected in any way with anything you have said, sorry if it came across like that!

Yes TSC, it was the young Bristol mum thrown off a bus for breastfeeding. It was in the press. The bus driver objected to being demonised in this way and the cctv footage was consulted.

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 21:56:25

mrsD you're not a bitch.

What if you google and their story doesn't come up though confused not everybody life's on google, is it? <goes off to check on myself>

cq Mon 20-Feb-12 21:57:19

Have read all 17 pages of this on and off today and am saddened and appalled by the things people can do through the anonimity of MN. Have also learned a lot about Trolling, while lurking on Pinot's bench.

I now fear I need to namechange as it is currently a shade too close to some alleged troll called CVQ.

Trouble is, I have been CQ for years, hardly ever post, and if I namechange I'm quite likely to forget what I've changed it to and never be able to log on again confused

OliverTwit Mon 20-Feb-12 21:58:35

I wasn't sure but like a lot of people just figured I should stay clear - I had no experience and nothing to offer (about the Jess one).
Now though I'm remembering other threads and can't help but think, hmmmmm. And I feel sad.
I need some bum space on Pinot's bench please. I don't get hints easily either and could do with being able to actually see threads containing trollery (I get that I can't though) so that I can learn what is 'typical'. For purely educational purposes obviously.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SESthebrave Mon 20-Feb-12 22:00:59

Pinot - I've been here since 2008 but still wanted to give Jess the benefit of the doubt. Just too awful to think that someone has the capacity to make up something like that sad
I feel cheated now having followed all 3 threads - what a waste of my time, never mind anything else!

WannaBe - thanks for starting this thread as I was hoping for a bit of clarity.

Helen - thanks for responding as best you can.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

giraffesCantDonateBoneMarrow Mon 20-Feb-12 22:04:45

LunaticFringe, that happened on another one too, so could be one I am thinking off or MrsDs - I doubt they are the same though.

cq, I don't think anyone would mix you up. Hers was party in caps, and she was copingveryquietly before she shortened it to CvQ (if she ever did - or was that just what others called her, can't remember?)
And I presume your life's not an ongoing soap opera

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Mon 20-Feb-12 22:13:06

everlong if I dont find anything I dont really do anything unless its one of those stories that you know are definately going to have been covered in the press. Even then I just sort of bear it in mind and keep and eye on things.

I still always give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to bereaved parents. The strangest, saddest things happen, things that seem made up but are horribly true sad

giraffesCantDonateBoneMarrow Mon 20-Feb-12 22:17:46

LF, the one where you would find shells?

2ombie5layer Mon 20-Feb-12 22:19:21

Why would a troll copy something out of the press? Surely they would realise that someone would remember the story.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Mon 20-Feb-12 22:20:35

I know that there was quite a lot going on another site around the same time and it shut down. A more specific site.

HurricaneBawbag Mon 20-Feb-12 22:22:11

Anyone remember the girl that updated the mnetter that died, with the eating disorder was that hilllllls? She was caught because of misspelling words iirc. Also who the fuck has a friend that dies and thinks "I know I must update some randoms on the Internet!"

SecretNutellaFix Mon 20-Feb-12 22:22:39

CvQ shortened her name after everyone abbreviated her names on the threads.

I was sucked in by her. On more than one occasion I spent an entire night up talking to her, along with many other posters.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PeanutButterChocolate Mon 20-Feb-12 22:23:47

sad This is so horrible and I have realized that I've been terribly naive.

Thanks for letting this thread stand MNHQ; the possibility of very sensitive threads being started by trolls had not really entered my consciousness. I actually did a mini-flounce and deregistered while all this was going on as it really changes the nature of the site when all this gossip is being bandied around and everyone feels paranoid and upset. My flounce lasted a day and a half grin but I've come back with a name change and from now on I'm going to keep my cards a bit closer to my chest, as it were. I've definitely "overshared" in the past and it's awful to think of that information falling into the wrong hands. Lesson learned!

I will continue to post dull minutiae on the shallow and pointless threads, however. Plenty of material there grin.

everlong Mon 20-Feb-12 22:24:01

Very true mrsD also I think sometimes we have to trust our instincts, I find they are usually not far from the truth.

Hassled Mon 20-Feb-12 22:25:55

My troll radar is non existent. I have no clue, ever. The only one I was ever a bit suspicious of was dizzymare and even then it was only "well that's a bit unlikely" rather than klaxons sounding.

giraffesCantDonateBoneMarrow Mon 20-Feb-12 22:26:03

It changed a lot after that, lunatic.

lorcana - I c&p a part of jess's op and was deleted as it was decided I was mocking her, when i asked for claification as I was certainly not I was told I was troll hunting. I had c&p to answer another poster who had missed it.

LilacWaltz Mon 20-Feb-12 23:39:01

What happened to thedevilwearsptimark was she a troll?

Also, not seen the boxroom troll for a while

LilacWaltz Mon 20-Feb-12 23:39:28


wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 23:42:37

sevenfold oh yes I remember her and her many incarnations. She hated me because I used to call into question most of the things she said. and her "mother" started a thread all about me telling other posters to ignore the things I'd said about her beloved daughter. hmm

I think the thing about ss is that ultimately, you reap what you sew. SS was a deeply unpleasant individual. As washwithcare she was to put it bluntly, a nasty bitch who deserved all the vitriol she ever got on here, and tbh as sassysusan she wasn't much better. I remember some of her threads on the main boards (I don't go into bereavement) and her telling one poster she hoped her child died and another that she was the cause of her child's cancer. Even if she was genuinely bereaved, nothing, and I mean nothing gives anyone the right to talk to anyone else like that - being bereaved does not make one immune from consequence.

And actually it's comments like that that still make me doubt she was ever bereaved, because surely no-one who had genuinely lost a child would ever wish that on someone else? In fact I've heard posters here say as much e.g. when the eastenders storyline was running etc that a bereaved parent wouldn't wish the same on another parent - it just doesn't happen that way.

The upshot is, if you make your way through life by lying, deceiving, being nasty and generally unpleasant, then at some point you should expect to be called on it. And if you make your way through life by lying and deceiving, then at some point you should expect thta you might tell the truth one day and people won't believe you because all they know of you is that you are a lier.

And ss was still posting as washwithcare and her various laliaes while posting on bereavement. And she manipulated her blog and changed dates and posted some truly vile things about other posters on there. A lot of people were hurt by her.

So I'm sorry but she brought the reactions on herself. She didn't need to come back to mn, there are plenty of bereavement forums out there, plenty of other parenting forums. She could, if she had genuinely been bereaved, have gained support without the risk of being outed for the vile individual she is.

wannaBe Mon 20-Feb-12 23:47:06

lw I don't know about tdwp tbh. I always had my suspicions, and she did lose her ability to namechange iirc. But at best she was a serious dramatist who loved the attention

I saw talk that the boxroom troll was around at christmas, something about a stepdaughter and a dog.

I think she's just a dramatist as well though, a bit irritating but not nearly as hurtful as some of the more sinister ones.

MyNameIsntFUCKINGWarren Tue 21-Feb-12 07:04:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Codandchops Tue 21-Feb-12 07:08:47

Sady I remember Hills and a friend posting to say she had died. Until now though I had no idea that was a bit of trolling.sad. Weird.

HillyWallaby Tue 21-Feb-12 07:50:38

I was with Jess at the beginning but very quickly came to the conclusion that she may have been trolling because the whole thing was just too attention seeky and needy, and the style of writing was more like published diary entries and we were her adoring readers. She really should/could have made her decision (which clearly, from post bloody one was going to be to keep the baby - there was no way on god's earth she was ever going to terminate) and I gave up once it became obvious that she didn;t actually want/need advice - just an audience.

Not that I didn't feel sorry for her - I did, but there wasn't really anything more constructive anyone could say - she was just feeding off all the attention and sympathy but not actually really listening to the advice.

Even now I know there was a dodgy issue with timing and another forum, I am loathe to think it was all completely made up by some 62 year old train spotter called Colin from Swindon.

I think she was for real, but was a bit poorly in the head. Or was in fact much further on in her PG and had every intention of having and keeping the child but just needed constant validation because her BF had ditched her.

OracleInaCoracle Tue 21-Feb-12 08:05:54

Hilllls affected me very, very badly. I was in a dreadful place at the time and that pushed me over another edge. one anorexic poster had a look for her on a pro-ana website (which is very bad indeed for someone suffering from an ED). I myself had a bit of a breakdown and went into a spiral, losing a huge amount of weight in a very short time.

cornsilkteamdixon Tue 21-Feb-12 08:22:31

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

deemented Tue 21-Feb-12 08:29:53

(Cwtches) lissie to her ample bussoom - sorry she hurt you so badly, my lovely.

StarlightDicKenzie Tue 21-Feb-12 08:38:17

But what if your life really IS an ongoing drama? <Starlight reflects over her past two years of he'll and wonders if she was ever believed sad>

My trolldar is not too bad but the ones I miss are the ones that are "old" trolls IYSWIM whereas some poster sre able to recognise posting styles, maybe mine is more of a bullshit detector hmm who knows . But those that troll the vulnerable deliberately bastards the lot of them

I don't kinks the answer starlight. I'm guessing that's part of the problem - the trolls make it harder for people with real problems to get help. And of ciurse the things they're trolling about do really happen to some people, sadly. I don't know your back story, sorry, but never seen a "that starlight, she's a troll, right?" Thread grin
Seems that trolls .never have anything mundane go wrong, like a broken dishwasher smile

Trills Tue 21-Feb-12 08:48:13

So when is this thread going to go poof?

I read the Op of the first one of these threads and thought that either it was or wasn't a troll, and either way I didn't want to post. <cold hearted bitch>

LeBOF Tue 21-Feb-12 08:48:21

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

deemented Tue 21-Feb-12 08:51:05

I know where you're coming from, starlight - my life a few years ago could have screamed troll... i lost my DH 12 weeks after dd1 was born, then my mother 12 weeks after that, then had to move into a house that was unfit for habitation, then got together with manshape and was pregnant by him very quickly despite being on the pill and using condoms - it really was one drama after t'other.

FWIW, i've never seen a 'that starlight, she's a troll, right?' post either wink

MaryZ Tue 21-Feb-12 08:51:48

I get a bit hmm about people who only use mumsnet to post about one specific problem, have the time to update repeatedly (or at the same time each day), but never join in on the rest of the site.

I mean, if you are coming on two or three times a day to write essays going into great detail with dates and times and names etc etc, surely you notice the odd thread that you will think "I'll have a look at that and post some random crap".

But the prolific trolls don't.

It's almost as though they have a special persona for that problem. I assume different personae have different problems, and they are kept separate by, for example, work pc for one, home laptop for another, phone for general chat.

Of course they get found out sometimes when they sockpuppet which necessitates crossing over their personae onto different threads.

Starlight, my life has also been a car crash, and no-one has ever said they think I'm trolling (maybe they think it, but they've never said it to me grin).

It's the instantaneous disasters, which appear out of nowhere, are updated regularly and in detail while they are happening, and the aggression shown when anyone tries to probe further that are alarms for me.

hathorinareddress Tue 21-Feb-12 08:52:10

Stealth you beat me to it. Trolls never have any normal kind of shit to deal with - even if the rest of my life was high drama, I'd still post about DD leaving her crap on the floor, or the muddy dog or the ironing or whatever

<reflects on how boring her life actually is--

hathorinareddress Tue 21-Feb-12 08:52:51

And a troll would never have a strike out pointy bracket fail either

grin blush

RabidEchidna Tue 21-Feb-12 08:54:03

I remember Hills, that was just sick

OracleInaCoracle Tue 21-Feb-12 09:02:30

starlight, I have never thought you were a troll. in fact, 98% of posters, I believe wholeheartedly. however, there is just something that gets me hmming. a gut feeling that wont go away no matter how much I quash it. and whenever I see a thread by them I get a knot in my stomach. I make deals with myself "if this happens, I might mention to another poster with a better trolldar that I am having doubts" "if this happens I will email HQ" "If this happens I will comment on their thread"

and (with the exception of Hilllls (thanks for the cwtches dee)) I have only been wrong once.

wannaBe Tue 21-Feb-12 09:22:31

I think everyone has bad stuff happen, and for some they even feel the need to share/talk about it online. Nothing wrong with that.

But there's a difference between "I've lost my job/my dh is a bastard/my child has a serious illness, can I talk about it here," (even going into some detail) and "My dh has beaten me up and I'm cowering in the bathroom typing this, I had the foresight to namechange first though, and here is my paypal address in case anyone would like to get in touch with me."

TheLightPassenger Tue 21-Feb-12 09:25:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheLightPassenger Tue 21-Feb-12 09:26:12

Lissie, v sorry for what you went through with hills sad

SecondTimeLucky Tue 21-Feb-12 09:32:56

Starlight - Also, trolls very rarely post 'generously'. They don't tend to help others, or mention their situation in passing when making a larger point. Every thread they are on tends to be 'about them'. I have seen enough of you on some of these boards that you don't set my trolldar going.

StarlightDicKenzie Tue 21-Feb-12 09:57:45

Thank. I suppose this just shows the damage trolls can cause then. That people who have 'dramas' then doubt they'll be believed.

MerryMarigold Tue 21-Feb-12 09:59:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

everlong Tue 21-Feb-12 10:10:34

lissie I'm so sad to read your post about how hillls affected you.

But I'm glad you had the courage to post it.

Because it shows the damage and the mental anguish that a troll can have on a real live person.

On the jess thread I was so angry at all those saying the troll hunters were bully's and so on and so what if it was a troll, who cares, what's the problem.

I hope those people read your post.

As for the SS situation this has gone of on a tangent because it seems that she has friends on mn and I wouldn't want to upset them.

But I have to agree with wannabe that just because you lose a child that it gives you reason or justification to be nasty. To wish another child to die is really beyond my way of thinking. As soon as I hear of someone taking their life I always think of his/ her mother being told.

Everlong - really agree with your thoughts about someone elses Mum having to hear the words you heard. xx

StarlightDicKenzie Tue 21-Feb-12 10:13:24

Merry, there are some bloody funny trolls. I hope they keep posting.

everlong Tue 21-Feb-12 10:15:10

<thanks shabs tearful>

StarlightDicKenzie Tue 21-Feb-12 10:15:44

Everlong. I agree. Sometimes I get just as frustrated with the troll defenders/feeders as I do with the troll. And a very rare few posters that seem to feed of the drama in an almost troll-like way of their own.

MerryMarigold Tue 21-Feb-12 10:16:57

Sure they will, Starlight. But I think the drama queens may start getting better at it now they know some of the 'giveaways'.

StarlightDicKenzie Tue 21-Feb-12 10:19:09

I don't know. Won't that just be too much effort?

There must be easier boards.

catsrus Tue 21-Feb-12 10:19:34

<peeks over the parapet> as a raw MN newbie (under another alias) I made the mistake of agreeing with an OP who held an unpopular opinion - and wasn't expressing her (?) view very well. i thought i 'got' what she was trying to say - and said so, trying to explain what she meant blush. Cue people on the thread accusing me of being a sockpuppet in quite a snide (and of course clever, being MN) way.

Now I'm tough as old boots online and chalked it up to experience, namechanging a bit later and diving in again - but had I been a real forum newbie I think the experience would have sent me packing.

Which is why I think the no troll hunting rule a good one. OTOH wink I think there are strategic phrases which might be used to indicate a certain wariness about a thread - <MI5 mode on/> e.g. if people were to post something like "I don't think I have anything helpful that I contribute to this thread, but wishing you all the best OP" then it would alert people "in the know" but would not upset genuine new posters who were looking for support </MI5 mode off>

BeerTricksP0tter Tue 21-Feb-12 10:20:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

everlong Tue 21-Feb-12 10:21:12

Yes starlight I agree I think some people probably suspect that its a little 'off' but for some reason unknown to my pea brain they pour more and more attention on the troll. Almost like they are basking in their glory with them.

I do think though on the jess thread there were a lot of sock puppets. So it seemed that she had a lot of odd support.

I wonder if mnhq would be able to confirm that? <please>

Hullygully Tue 21-Feb-12 10:22:10

I haven't rtft, but come on, surely people didn't believe that pregnant two yr old thread...?!

everlong Tue 21-Feb-12 10:23:09


Lexilicious Tue 21-Feb-12 10:30:53

Could there be a sort of OTBT topic where troll threads are stored, can't be searched or new posts added, posts where people have got sucked in taken out, but the real left as a reference set? mind you I found a site recently called boardreader or something which had cached pages from _chat threads older than 90 days so I'm not sure the unsearchableness really works perfectly.

MerryMarigold Tue 21-Feb-12 10:59:09

what's a sock poppet?

MerryMarigold Tue 21-Feb-12 10:59:28

ermmm puppet? blush

wannaBe Tue 21-Feb-12 11:01:23

oh yes, there are certainly people who feed off the drama. people who want to be seen to be the ones helping, with offers of help being more and more dramatic.

I once read a thread on here where a contributor posted that "I wish I could hire a private investigator to track op down just so I could have a chat with her and know she's ok." shock hmm wtf.

wannaBe Tue 21-Feb-12 11:05:14

mm a sockpuppet is where someone namechanges to agree with themselves. so - it might go like this:

poster: "I gave birth to a baby with two heads last night," followed by lots of "well I don't believe that's possible," type posts from others. And then another poster comes on and says "How dare you all doubt the op, she is my personal friend and I have been to visit the baby and he has the most beautiful two faces I've ever seen. you should all be ashamed."

Thumbwitch Tue 21-Feb-12 11:05:14

Ah. I'm glad that's sorted then. I had suspicions halfway through the first thread and even shock PMd a couple of people who seemed to be getting too invested in the thread, just to suggest gently that all might not be as it seemed.

I was badly bitten by the CVQ fiasco and have never (I don't think) let myself get sucked in so badly again - I remember the SS bereavement stuff, she was bloody vicious to me people trying to suggest that other folks' sympathetic comments weren't in fact as bad as she was making out, she was just in a very bad place - oo, the shredding we got!

My trolldar is a bit poor, I have to say - but there have been a couple recently that have smelt a bit bad, and Jess was one of them.

wannaBe Tue 21-Feb-12 11:10:26

Just in the interests of equality, I remember that one of the very first threads I ever read on mn was

this one

Not all trolls are bad. wink

MerryMarigold Tue 21-Feb-12 11:11:59

Oh wow! People DO that? The world of internet forums is truly amazing.

MerryMarigold Tue 21-Feb-12 11:14:31

That's a good 'un wannabe. Would that be classed as a troll when it's clearly a joke (ie. the name and everything else is obviously a joke). I assume that's why the thread was not deleted.

What's a troll and what isn't?

wannaBe Tue 21-Feb-12 11:16:57

well technically it is because it's a poster on the wind-up. but it's so blatant that it's funny and so it's usually left to stand.

Thumbwitch Tue 21-Feb-12 11:17:26

this is another brilliant "trolling" joke thread - different style of trolling from the emotional vampire ones though.

SayCoolNowSayWhip Tue 21-Feb-12 11:18:48

Oh good, nothing's changed....

<Draws up chair, opens Maltesers, puts feet on desk>

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 21-Feb-12 11:19:29


And a troll would never have a strike out pointy bracket fail either

grin blush

Erm, we're a bit concerned this thread is turning into a "how to troll successfully" beginners' guide. We don't want to have to to delete this thread but we may have to if it carries on in this vein. Hope you all understand...

MaryZ Tue 21-Feb-12 11:21:31

The trouble with that thread Thumb is that I have seen similar ones where the bride is serious and has got quite stroppy about it grin.

I think the difference is the intention - if the intention is to be funny, that isn't true trolling (even if it falls on its face). If the intention is to draw people in to give their own experiences, it is trolling.

Lying isn't necessarily trolling either. It is possible to be a member of a site like this and have an imaginary life, or imaginary personality, as long as you don't harm anyone, or cross-over into anyone else's real life.

There must be lonely people in bedrooms living imaginary lives on the net. Most are harmless (and sad, tbh) and their alternative lives keep them going from day to day.

There is a crossover from that to the emotional vampire, and that, imo, is the line that isn't acceptable to cross.

hathorinareddress Tue 21-Feb-12 11:29:05

Helen - oh flip that's not what I meant I just meant I'd made an idiot of myself with my pointy bracket/bolding fail


wannaBe Tue 21-Feb-12 11:30:20

no no helen please don't delete <offers pancakes and brew>

Thumbwitch Tue 21-Feb-12 11:30:27

Mary, that's actually why I think that one was so funny - because it was an extreme form of real bridezilla types! grin

Agreed, intention is a big part of it. And getting people's emotional involvement going is never good.

HelenMN - please don't delete the entire thread, just the comments that talk about "how to spot trolls" - no point throwing the baby out with the bathwater, is there? wink

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Tue 21-Feb-12 11:32:13

I think a troll is only a troll if their intention is to upset/harm or get money.

So you could lie about having a OH and DCs and stay on a site for years happily posting about them and not necessarily be a troll. If you had an imaginary life that included the OH beating you up and the DCs having serious illnesses or dying - that would make you a troll.

Or if you used the family to draw others into a relationship other than a fairly informal online one.

It would be unsettling to find out that someone you chatted to a bit on MNs didnt have the DD and DS she was do proud of but it wouldnt cause damage.
You would have to chalk it up to experience and file it under 'people are weird'.

But if you had spent many evenings sharing your 'mutal' experiences of DV, birth trauma etc - that could cause harm.

Dont get me started on those wankers who target memorial websites.

HillyWallaby Tue 21-Feb-12 11:33:56

I think a troll is only a troll if their intention is to upset/harm or get money.

Yes, I think that too. There are many attention seeking time wasters who often are ill or vulnerable or lonely, but they are not trolls really. I think Jess was one of those.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 21-Feb-12 11:38:08


Helen - oh flip that's not what I meant I just meant I'd made an idiot of myself with my pointy bracket/bolding fail


I know, hathor, but yours was the one post I could "quote" without drawing too much attention to troll tips, iyswim

Hullygully Tue 21-Feb-12 11:38:29

I know I always say this on these threads but...


If someone trolls and you recognise it, stay away/report/call em on it (rebel)

If someone trolls and you get really drawn in and have a lovely old emotional orgasm, why care about the provenance?

I don't geddit <wails>

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 21-Feb-12 11:39:18


Mary, that's actually why I think that one was so funny - because it was an extreme form of real bridezilla types! grin

Agreed, intention is a big part of it. And getting people's emotional involvement going is never good.

HelenMN - please don't delete the entire thread, just the comments that talk about "how to spot trolls" - no point throwing the baby out with the bathwater, is there? wink

OK, but we'll need those who posted about "how to spot trolls" to report their own posts to us for withdrawal please.

We have no other grounds for deletion really, do we? <consults Mod Manual in frustration>

everlong Tue 21-Feb-12 11:41:27

My late ds had a fb page set up by his friends when he died. That was visited by some sick people, I can't remember the real term used for them.

Calling him some really disgusting names and saying the worst things about him. We soon made it private so that only invited people could join so that put a stop to it.

But at the time I was heartbroken.

Hullygully Tue 21-Feb-12 11:41:53

What is wrong with how to spot a troll anyway?

Why do we have to take everything at face value?

We don't in real life.

MildlyNarkyPuffin Tue 21-Feb-12 11:43:17

When people are sharing really personal experiences and arranging RL meet ups it's a bit more serious Hully

everlong Tue 21-Feb-12 11:43:31

Fgs hully read the thread, it's there in black and white why people care and get upset.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Tue 21-Feb-12 11:44:32

Its vile everlong.
Its hardly ever someone who knew the deceased. I know that doesnt make it better though.

Hullygully Tue 21-Feb-12 11:46:02

<resists the urge to say more fool them but thinks it a bit>

everlong Tue 21-Feb-12 11:46:59

I know mrsD it's a group that goes around sites and forums leaving terrible messages.

Just cruel.

Hully when you have had the experience of the loss of a child/children and someone comes onto the thread saying they have lost a child you tend to try to help hmm I dont understand why you find that difficult to 'get.' Each time they post about their feelings and emotions it takes you 100 steps backwards and you remember things that you had tried to lock away in the back of your memory. OK, in hindsight, when one or more of the posters are found to be not bereaved, the initial feeling is 'how could I have been fooled again?' Then comes massive anger.

I would help anyone if they had lost a precious child....I used to be very easily fooled on MN but that is not the case anymore.

Hully - 'more fool who?

Hullygully Tue 21-Feb-12 11:51:55

Agghhhhhh huge apologies. Should have read the thread indeed. I was assuming it was the usual trolling nonsense, not that sort of thing at all.

MerryMarigold Tue 21-Feb-12 11:52:14

I'm not sure if Jess was angling for a meet up, but in her PM she said she lived in Uxbridge and mentioned other chit chat which didn't really require a response, and since I didn't live nearby I didn't reply. I think if she'd been near me, I would certainly have offered her baby stuff to help her out and possibly even taken my kids to drop it off, since I couldn't leave them home alone. Things like this are scary and I do feel 'alerted' as it were.

Southwest Tue 21-Feb-12 11:52:17

OK I've missed a bit was Zeebrugge a troll then?
And is mumsnet moderated now? I've seen people posting that it is and just assumed they were newbies

Thumbwitch Tue 21-Feb-12 11:52:34

Hully - you might not take everyone/thing at face value in RL, but there are people who do. And they are the ones who might get hurt by trolls on the internet. telling them to stop being foolish is perhaps akin to telling them to stop being generous, or thoughtful, or some other random character trait that they have had their whole life - it might not be possible for them.

And the "how to spot a troll" posts need to go so that trolls don't learn from them and make themselves harder to spot. But you know this.

Everlong - that's appalling sad. Sick, sick people - like the ones who deface graves as well. Just wrong in the head.

Hullygully Tue 21-Feb-12 11:52:38

We need more words for the different types of things.

everlong Tue 21-Feb-12 11:53:26

Ok hully let you off wink

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Tue 21-Feb-12 11:53:35

I saw that on tv everlong. I had no idea these creatures were organised. Some of them trying to justify it by saying they were taking a stand against public shows of emotion or somthing.
Because a parent with a website for their child is exactly the same as a bunch of hysterical 'fan's weeping outside a celeb's flat hmm

Thumbwitch Tue 21-Feb-12 11:56:44

xposted Hully - sorry.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 21-Feb-12 11:57:11

[quote lissielou]starlight, I have never thought you were a troll. in fact, 98% of posters, I believe wholeheartedly. however, there is just something that gets me hmming. a gut feeling that wont go away no matter how much I quash it. and whenever I see a thread by them I get a knot in my stomach. I make deals with myself "if this happens, I might mention to another poster with a better trolldar that I am having doubts" "if this happens I will email HQ" "If this happens I will comment on their thread"

Please, please, please - report to us, as soon as you have any hmming or gut feelings at all.

We don't mind people being completely and utterly wrong - honest. We don't hold it against you or have MNHQ mugshots of 'people who are forever calling troll'.

We are properly, genuinely grateful for each report. The more you tell us - even assuming that some of the reports will be mistaken - the more likely it is that we'll be able to deal with the people who really are trolling.

Hullygully Tue 21-Feb-12 11:57:22

no no thumb

mea culpa

everlong Tue 21-Feb-12 11:58:19

I know, freaks.

One of them really had a go at on my ds's best friend who had a tattoo of a Rose with his name all the way up her side. He said some dreadful things about how she would regret it when she no longer gave a toss about him.

She gave him a right blasting, iirc I think this twit apologised to her.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 21-Feb-12 11:58:23

Oh, me quote facility went awry <aghast>

SayCoolNowSayWhip Tue 21-Feb-12 12:04:19

everlong that's awful. A similar thing happened when my friend was killed in a motorcycle accident a few years ago - people were coming on to his FB page and saying some really sick things and making sick jokes. The worst thing was no one could get in to it to change his privacy settings, so there were many emails sent back and forth to FBHQ before it got sorted. sad So sorry about your DS.

everlong Tue 21-Feb-12 12:10:44

Oh that's so sad saycool and I imagine so blooming frustrating not being able to take it off straight away sad

Ps where does username come from -<always wanted to know>

Kewcumber Tue 21-Feb-12 12:15:10


To an extent I agree with you Hully - I have posted on trolly threads (for example on the Mozhe thread) but don't generally feel personally involved, I give whatever support/advice I can but don't take it personally if either the OP doesn't want to take that advice or even may be lying through their teeth.

But sometimes you can't help it - if its something you have direct experience of and you empathise based on what you have been through its hard sometimes to take a step back and it can get quite upsetting. I have been upset by some of the things people have had to say on the adoption boards, presumably MNHQ do try to make Mumsnet a reasonably pleasant environment for the users and that includes putting a stop to trolls where they can.

I like the minimally moderated approach but appreciate that people cannot post whatever they like, even a total pack of lies, without some degree of policing. It's the difference between minimal moderation and no moderation.

Hullygully Tue 21-Feb-12 12:17:10

no no Kew, I only meant it in ref to the harmless ones.

<apologises again>

Southwest Tue 21-Feb-12 12:19:34

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

Southwest Tue 21-Feb-12 12:20:07

Oh and is mumsnet moderated now?

Kewcumber Tue 21-Feb-12 12:20:22

FWIW Hully - I've been more upset (rarely I should add, in case you have visions on me behind the screen sobbing as we speak) by posters who are deemed not to be trolls than those who were.

Kewcumber Tue 21-Feb-12 12:21:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mcfee Tue 21-Feb-12 12:23:04

Southwest I'd like to know too! Was just thinking about her the other day, wondering how she was getting on sad

Kewcumber Tue 21-Feb-12 12:23:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kewcumber Tue 21-Feb-12 12:24:03

In which case I think I need to report my own posts - to avoid being call a troll hunter (which I'm so not - not organised enough!)

Hullygully Tue 21-Feb-12 12:24:09

yy i think she was

i believed her - it was a great story!

OhChristFenton Tue 21-Feb-12 12:24:36

SouthWest the Zee thread is still in Legal Matters and was bumped about a week ago, you might find your answers there, I don't know.

Southwest Tue 21-Feb-12 12:24:59

I do remember someone saying you should write a novel and make a film On the thread.

I'm trying to think whether I have ever had an email from the towers...........

I got burned by SS - she linked the MN nickname I was using at the time to my real name (I had contacted her via facebook, hence her knowing it), on her blog - which really upset and scared me at the time. MNHQ were wonderful and supportive when I reported it. Thankfully it all died down, and nothing came of it, but I learned my lesson.

<< goes and joins Pinot on the Baffled and Dim Bench >>

hathorinareddress Tue 21-Feb-12 12:37:38

SDTG - that is really scary shock

I think that, for me, is the worry of it - well it's two fold really, that lovely genuine posters invest time and energy into supporting someone by sharing their own experiences, offering a listening ear and then it all turns out to be a load of bollocks

But the other worry for me is when it starts tipping into real life with meet ups, money changing hands, other offers of help.

I do think some of the trolls must be emotionally in a very bad place and unstable to make up some of the shit they do iyswim

<pushes SDTG out of the way and places her ample arse on the Baffled and Dim Bench>

SDTG=shock as she lands on the floor by the Baffled and Dim Bench™!! grin

And I bet my arse is ampler (and probably more baffled) than yours, hathor!

Southwest Tue 21-Feb-12 12:45:56

Lol can I join you?
I'm well covered as it happens too

Well-covered - I like that phrase. Actually, I am in very good shape, physically - round IS a shape!! grin

hathorinareddress Tue 21-Feb-12 13:02:20

How did you do the cool wee "TM" SDTG?

wannaBe Tue 21-Feb-12 13:07:00

tbh, I am far more horrified at some of the physical support people offer than the emotional.

I can totally see how one might be drawn to someone on the basis of shared experience, and how that might lead one to offer extensive emotional support/involvement.

But sometimes I see offers on threads, people giving money, offering a place to stay - to a complete stranger and I want to say to them "are you f'ing insane?" grin

And I know that people are well-meaning, but tbh it does horrify me to think of the physical risks people are prepared to take e.g. offering a bed for the night to someone you know only by a username on a website.

CheerfulYank Tue 21-Feb-12 13:10:32

Ah, I thought so.

I've been talking to other mumsnetters about her probably being a troll for awhile, but I always feel it's important to be nice just in case.

So glad there's not young woman/advance staged fetus in that situation, though!

Hold down the Alt key, and type 0153 on the separate number pad on the keyboard (it doesn't work with the numbers above the letters, iyswim), and the ™ will appear when you release the Alt key.

Thumbwitch Tue 21-Feb-12 13:17:34

Coo! didn't realise it didn't work with the numbers above the letters - what do you do if your lappie doesn't have a separate numberpad though? (mine does, just interested)

2ombie5layer Tue 21-Feb-12 13:19:32

thumb there is a way to turn those numbers into a keypad. Ive done it as my newest laptop doesnt have a number