another Kingsdale thread bites the dust

(178 Posts)
gingeroots Mon 10-Dec-12 16:00:19

So the whole thread has gone - positive comments ,queries ,critical comments .

Kind of makes posting on internet forums unattractive .

Any pretence of a space where comment and ideas can be exchanged blown .

TimeChild Mon 10-Dec-12 16:12:44

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CashmereHoodlum Mon 10-Dec-12 16:14:55

I missed this. Does it happen often? What were the reasons for the deletion?

blindworm Mon 10-Dec-12 16:16:45

Woo, I knew another one would be up within the hour.
Anyone feel free to PM me, I kept track right to the end and will do on this one.

TimeChild Mon 10-Dec-12 16:18:17

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TimeChild Mon 10-Dec-12 16:19:52

Thanks blindworm - you are officially the secretary of the 'Kingsdale thread grin

AfterEightMintyy Mon 10-Dec-12 16:20:10

I think now all of this throws up far more interesting questions about censorship and freedom speech than anything that could be happening at the school.

blindworm Mon 10-Dec-12 16:26:55

I fully accept my duties as the Kingsdale thread scribe grin

TimeChild Mon 10-Dec-12 16:27:11

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CashmereHoodlum Mon 10-Dec-12 17:22:00


creamteas Mon 10-Dec-12 18:09:08

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Alonglongway Mon 10-Dec-12 18:37:08

Iit was Blindworm's vendetta against the Duke of Edinburgh what done it

Lowlands Mon 10-Dec-12 18:43:34

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CarlingBlackMabel Mon 10-Dec-12 20:17:03

Well, it's poor show.

I'm not impressed.

However, I really don't want to see a local school, with a generation of happy children be trashed and lose it's reputation which could quickly lead to a reverse of everything that HAS been achieved, because of a war of nerves on the internet. So until the new facts we are awaiting are published, I'll leave well alone, I think.

welshwalsh Mon 10-Dec-12 20:24:06

That is fair enough CBM. It won't be long until both the Ofsted inspection report and the exam results are published.

blindworm Mon 10-Dec-12 20:39:40
Lowlands Mon 10-Dec-12 20:59:31

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SminkoPinko Mon 10-Dec-12 21:24:49

Does anyone know when the inspection finished? Apparently the report is published 10 working days after the inspection finishes and will be on the ofsted website after 15 working days.

TimeChild Mon 10-Dec-12 21:28:26

It takes guts to be a whistleblower. One of my dh's friends was a whistleblower (not in education). He lost his job, lived in stress for several years and happily was finally vindicated in court. No one would want to put themselves through that unless they are totally convinced that it is the right and honourable thing to do.

ThreeTomatoes Mon 10-Dec-12 21:43:47

I knew the other one would disappear. There were far too many posts from people actually connected with the school grin

What happened to the whistleblowers afterwards, Lowlands?

Lowlands Mon 10-Dec-12 21:53:56

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Lowlands Mon 10-Dec-12 21:58:51

For the sake of those who don't know my other half works at the school. I AM NOT A TEACHER AT THE SCHOOL. And for the sake of saying it, EVERYTHING I SAY IS MY OPINION, MY BELIEF, MY UNDERSTANDING.

SminkoPinko Mon 10-Dec-12 22:10:57

Thanks, lowlands. Report will be on website just after Christmas then. I am not counting on the school giving it out the week after next...

SminkoPinko Mon 10-Dec-12 22:11:52

Sorry, next week, I meant.

Lowlands Mon 10-Dec-12 22:16:38

well it just depends. What is considered a working day by Ofsted? It may be after the New Year, at the same time as the GCSE results are also published. Which as you know will be the first staff and parents see of the results. hmm

SminkoPinko Mon 10-Dec-12 22:19:39

The New Year could start with a bit of a bang...

swhobbit Mon 10-Dec-12 23:26:12

I have made errors on this forum , i previously posted i thought there were approx 200 FTE teachers only to be proven incorrect. Although i am not sure recent 6th form has added numbers to last stats ?
However as a parent i can confirm Ofsted inspection was 5/12- 7/12. The initial results would be discussed with SMT at approx school closing time fri 6pm ish. My FE college that was recently inspected was given above info at 7pm , the staff were nowhere in the building as have homes to go to.
We were not informed on the monday & waited for the results as stakeholders had to.
Ditto with same info that i believe Kingsdale has had;
This is a a direct response to social media forums from the gov.
Government inspections should remain within the domain of inspection and results dully published without prejuidice.
It is not in the interest for any parent/child/guardian in a school/ FE /HE to be able to access positive/negative comments of any format in any forum that is not regulated by both sides of the debate ?

swhobbit Mon 10-Dec-12 23:35:09

And yes before ask .. I do work for the Gov , sadly not M1 ... but Civil Service..... .yawn

Lowlands Mon 10-Dec-12 23:54:37

Without meaning to be picky SWHobbit, the inspection was 2 days long it was the 5th and 6th December. The teachers could have therefore been told on the Friday 7th. Instead they were told that they would not know for a couple of weeks.

Mutteroo Tue 11-Dec-12 02:06:41

An Ofsted working day = a school working day and so holiday days will not be included. The HT/chair of governors will know roughly what will be contained within the report as the lead Ofsted inspector meets with them at the end of the inspection.

Ex chair of Govs speaking here - NOT from the school mentioned. I have no connection whatsoever and am just stating some background facts for all reading this thread. I will add that I am fully aware of the guts it takes to whistle blow. I was a governor at a school where the teachers revolted just before an Ofsted. Three teachers came to me & I told them to do what they considered to be the right thing, but suggested they speak to their union as I was worried that their careers could be compromised if claims were unfounded. In the end no one said a word, Ofsted knew none of the massive issues and we governors who remained (4 resigned but were useless anyway), worked our socks off to resolve the problems as best we could.

I hope this thread remains & while I agree with the MN who expressed concern at gossip, the exam cheating question is a worry at other schools & it needs to be addressed somehow!

Laysy89 Tue 11-Dec-12 08:26:09

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AfterEightMintyy Wed 12-Dec-12 21:08:12

At risk of stirring anything up again, I just wanted to ask if anyone knows in general what is happening with the appeal re. gcse results and when all schools will be able to post their definitive results?

delphie Wed 12-Dec-12 22:15:41

I have to say I was surprised the last thread lasted so long. I would be interesting to see an analysis of the deleted messages - might give us an idea of what particularly excites the censors

gingeroots Wed 12-Dec-12 22:43:35

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AfterEightMintyy Wed 12-Dec-12 22:47:45

Yes, agreed, it is a real shame that prh's post went with the thread because I don't think I have ever seen libel explained so clearly before.

creamteas Wed 12-Dec-12 23:20:50

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blindworm Wed 12-Dec-12 23:23:20

Or, creamteas, in the case of your post, simply that you find the regular disappearance of threads suspicious.

creamteas Wed 12-Dec-12 23:44:28

Blind watch out, you will go poof in a moment......

Blu Thu 13-Dec-12 10:43:31

Come on, you lot - I know you have the thread saved - could someone perhaps ask if prh47bridge's libel explanation could be copied and reproduced somewhere? Maybe on a seperate thread explaining libel? And if prh would be happy with that? I read it and it was really helpful, for lots of circumstances and contexts.

blindworm Thu 13-Dec-12 11:51:00

I have it saved, and would be happy to post it somewhere if someone lets me know where.

Blu Thu 13-Dec-12 12:52:26

e mail it to MNHQ?

PM prh47bridge and invite him to re-post it on a discrete thread?

Report the post you just made? (ha ha there is probably e Red Phone that goes off when a post is reported on a Kingsdale thread grin )

I do think it illuminates and informs posters in a way that can only make life for MNHQ simpler.

gingeroots Thu 13-Dec-12 13:10:29

blindworm can you repost it here ?

blindworm Thu 13-Dec-12 16:29:18

That post wasn't deleted individually either, so presumably wasn't libellous.
It read as thus:

prh47bridge - Does the confidentiality agreement contain a clause saying it only applies for 3 months? That would be unusual. Most confidentiality agreements do not have a time limit. That means posting confidential information would still be a breach of the agreement regardless of how much time has passed.
Regarding libel, if Kingsdale wanted to sue Mumsnet or one of the posters they would have to prove that the comments about which they complain:
- have been made to a third party
- refer to Kingsdale
- damage the school’s reputation
Any post made on this thread clearly meets the first two points leaving them to prove the third.
The defence of privilege does not apply so there are two other defences available to Mumsnet and posters:
- justification
- fair comment
To argue justification you have to show that the allegations you are making are true. Mumsnet doesn't necessarily have the evidence required to achieve that and the evidence posters have may not be sufficient for the courts.
Fair comment applies where:
- the allegation is a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact
- it is in the public interest that you be allowed to make the comment
So a review of a play that expresses the view that an actor's performance is wooden would generally class as fair comment. However, if you allege that the actor beats his wife that would not be fair comment even if you preface it with the words "THIS IS MY OPINION AND ONLY MY OPINION AND NOT A FACT ". It would certainly fail the first test as whether or not the actor beats his wife is a matter of fact, not a matter of opinion. Depending on where you make the comment it may also fail the public interest test.
Under UK law, Mumsnet cannot be sued successfully for libel provided they promptly remove any potentially libellous posts when requested. Given the potential costs it is clearly in Mumsnet's interests to be cautious. If I were them and were faced with a complaint of possible libel I would remove the offending post(s) unless it was completely clear, beyond any possible doubt, that they were fair comment or that I had the evidence to argue justification.

elizadoo Thu 13-Dec-12 22:37:21

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Lowlands Thu 13-Dec-12 23:54:51

so far all of my posts have been removed, so let's see if this one does. In MY opinion elizadoo should speak to many people to get an answer to her question, my own opinion would be...wait if I give my opinion on here the school will have it deleted, but that is just my opinion. Is this post libellous?

blindworm Fri 14-Dec-12 00:31:17

Lowlands is right. People seem to have very strong opinions about Kingsdale, which is evident from threads on here alone. You need to speak to a variety of people, some happy and some not so happy in order to form an opinion. And whether Kingsdale will work for your child depends on your DD, as do all schools, so you need to find out a little about how things work there (rules and regulations etc, nothing sinister implied) before making a decision imo.

elizadoo Fri 14-Dec-12 01:18:43

Well all the children and parents I know seem to be happy with it... But I sometimes think when you're bought into a school system you stand by it because the alternative of finding youve made a bad choice is even worse to bear... It's the parents who have chosen not to send dc there who are more critical. I'll keep asking...

AfterEightMintyy Fri 14-Dec-12 11:08:28

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AfterEightMintyy Fri 14-Dec-12 17:27:10

Omg shock

Alonglongway Fri 14-Dec-12 18:16:06

Deleted for implying that negative posts are deleted!

TimeChild Fri 14-Dec-12 18:29:06

Am I imagining it but have the goal posts of censorship moved a bit? I think the criteria of 'libellous' seem more stringent than in the past.

AfterEightMintyy Fri 14-Dec-12 21:40:50

Were it not for the fact that I have been out for a lovely event and am feeling very benign towards the world, I would actually be enraged by that deletion. As it is, it feels extremely 1984.

gingeroots Fri 14-Dec-12 23:19:56

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blindworm Sat 15-Dec-12 00:49:06

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Lowlands Sat 15-Dec-12 01:26:09

Can someone PM me to let me know what AfterEightMintyy said to be delete? I have been out at my xmas do all day and missed it...

gingeroots Sat 15-Dec-12 09:15:07

I have PM'd you Lowlands .

gingeroots Sat 15-Dec-12 09:53:55

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Alonglongway Sat 15-Dec-12 11:09:22

I saw it - no idea how libel could be read into it.....

AfterEightMintyy Sat 15-Dec-12 11:13:25

I can't remember if I said the word threaten. I do remember trying to be v careful over my wording.

Lowlands Sat 15-Dec-12 15:41:23

utter madness. BTW still no word on the inspection grading, clearly there are rumours but nothing official or even unofficial has been said to the teachers.

SminkoPinko Fri 04-Jan-13 00:31:19

How much longer till the report is out? [drums fingers nervously and impatiently]

CarlingBlackMabel Wed 09-Jan-13 16:32:22

So is the Ofsted report published?
Or the exam results?
Shouldn't they have been by now?

prh47bridge Wed 09-Jan-13 18:58:42

Seeing this thread again reminds me to thank Blindworm for reposting my explanation regarding libel. I hadn't kept a copy myself.

SminkoPinko Wed 09-Jan-13 20:32:56

The Ofsted report isn't out afaik. The boys haven't brought one home and it's not on the ofsted website. Maybe we haven't had 15 working days since the inspection yet?

Alonglongway Thu 10-Jan-13 09:08:13
brockmum Thu 10-Jan-13 09:44:01

Well done to Kingsdale! Thrilled (and relieved!) my son is at a school that is 'good' across the board, and 'outstanding' in terms of behaviour and safety. Bearing in mind that the school was assessed under the new Ofsted Framework, where schools have to be exceptionally good to be deemed 'outstanding', they've done very well - especially with the challenges they've faced over the last 18 months or so!

TimeChild Thu 10-Jan-13 10:40:28

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BoundandRebound Thu 10-Jan-13 16:00:32

Excellent report for students and families at the school

The new criteria came into effect in September 2012 so I'm not sure that's quite true timechild. Not that it matters too much.

Good luck to all families waiting for their secondary school allocation, hopefully this will help to set their minds at ease

TimeChild Thu 10-Jan-13 16:21:40

Here we go again. A good ofsted report seems not to have made a jot of difference to the censorship.

Sorry boundandrebound, didn't realise there was yet another change in the ofsted criteria so recently, but I don't think that was the reason my post was deleted.

TimeChild Thu 10-Jan-13 16:43:57

...and in case you are wondering I didn't post anything abusive or offensive. pm me if you want to know!

BoundandRebound Thu 10-Jan-13 17:02:00

Holy shit under what basis could what timechild posted be even vaguely considered libellous?

TimeChild Thu 10-Jan-13 17:11:05

Thank you, boundandrebound.

I thought that now the school has official and positive endorsement from ofsted that all this censorship nonsense will go away and we will be able to discuss it sensibly. Looks like I was wrong. I must say it's provocative and gets my hackles up!

CarlingBlackMabel Thu 10-Jan-13 17:13:16

I am quite shocked at that deletion.

The ofsted is positive. I'm really pleased. Parents often stated satisfaction with teaching and their child's happiness in the school is echoed by ofsted.

I will post 3 statements C&Pd from the ofsted report, prefaced by 'interesting that'. One of them is what TimeChild said.

Interesting that students eligible for pupil premium make better rates of progress than other students in the school.
Interesting that the school chose not to make use of Ofsted’s staff questionnaire.
Interesting that the proportion of students leaving school and entering employment, education or training is well above the national average.

The whole report is interesting - ofsted reports always are, to parents and local people. The facts were in the report - facts!

swhobbit Thu 10-Jan-13 18:52:37

Hearty congratulations to all the SMT , teachers & support staff for an well written factual report that , despite all the critics & negative press , has backed up everything us lunatic , brain washed parents have been consistently saying , Kingsdale is a great school. But the most rewarding part is the attitude and behaviour of our kids , amazing reading. Every parent's dream is a happy school where our kids are well supported & given every opportunity to develop into well balanced adults , who achieve to their best abilities. I hope that any parent that is lucky enough to get a place this year can feel relief that the school is one where their kids will thrive. When I read the report to my son tonight he just said " mum , we love our school , it is the best "

prh47bridge Thu 10-Jan-13 20:15:42

I'll be honest and say I thought TimeChild's post might get deleted as soon as I read it. Whilst it may not have seemed offensive there was a potentially libellous comment, although not seriously so.

TimeChild Thu 10-Jan-13 20:44:27

prbridge, could you elaborate as I'm really not clear why what I said was potentially libellous. From your earlier post you know a great deal about libel so would be grateful for your input.

Was it the bit where I compare the results to other schools? I got my facts a bit wrong there re: when the tougher ofsted criteria came in, but surely...? Or is it the snippet that I quoted from the report? I highlighted it because it is pertinent to the ongoing discussion about this school on this thread. Surely it is ok to mention it as it is something quoted from a public document, though it may not be something that the school may want highlighted.

brockmum Thu 10-Jan-13 21:25:29

Yes, clearly an astute Ofsted team too who do what Ofsted say they do (and as teachers we always wonder if they actually do it!) - lots of celebration of the great stuff, a clear analysis / understanding of data and showing what the school needs to do to improve; in fact, to be outstanding in every area.

Feel very fortunate to live in a city with such amazing good/outstanding schools. So many friends moved out of London years ago to find those schools - they should have stayed! Statistically, we've got some of the best schools here.

Well done again to Kingsdale!

CarlingBlackMabel Thu 10-Jan-13 21:49:44

Brockmum, I agree, I don't k ow why people have a low opinion of London. Schools in general, and I think we are very well served in the area, though the people who teeter on the edge of catchments wouldn't agree.

I am really shocked though at this deletion. My memory is that TC congratulated the school, acknowledged that the outstanding to good change was very likely due to the new framework, said it is now very hard to get outstanding , but speculated that 2 other local schools got outstanding under the new rules. A suggestion now refuted in discussion by Rebound. Which is what discussion is for. TC then made one of the statements I made below. I have no wish to be libellous against anyone, and am now very confused. Can you explain, pry, without repeating the offence?

prh47bridge Thu 10-Jan-13 23:10:30

TimeChild - I don't want to risk my own post being deleted so I'm going to be a bit vague but no, not those bits. You mentioned something that hadn't happened in a way that could have been read as suggesting an ulterior motive, although that may not have been what you meant. If that doesn't ring any bells feel free to PM me.

swhobbit Fri 11-Jan-13 23:13:34

Very satisfying that posts have dried up , nothing to bitch about anymore folks ?

SminkoPinko Sat 12-Jan-13 08:03:12

Very pleased and relieved to see the ofsted report is

gingeroots Sat 12-Jan-13 10:32:44

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BoundandRebound Sat 12-Jan-13 11:55:34

I agree the post was unneccessary and shit stirring but I do think families in the area should be delighted at how well Kingsdale has done under the new OFSTED framework.

The positive report is great reading after all the negative press and gossip, particularly pleasing for new and prospective parents. I'm sure we can all agree there is nothing more stressful than secondary transfer.

These extracts confirm to me that we are lucky to have good local options for our children:

^Students are very proud of their school and behaviour in and out of lessons is excellent. Students are very considerate and respectful to one another and state that they feel very safe in school.

All groups of students, including those with additional needs and those supported by the pupil premium, make good progress in their learning and achieve well.

The quality of teaching is good. Teachers are enthusiastic, have good subject knowledge and plan interesting lessons. There are very good relationships between staff and students.^

TimeChild Sat 12-Jan-13 13:06:16

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TimeChild Sat 12-Jan-13 13:10:59

One question though, the report says "The school has specialist status in mathematics and the performing arts."

I thought they had specialist status in sports as well? Indeed the website and the admissions stuff mention sports scholarships. Have they dropped this specialism? Does it mean that sport scholarships will no longer be offered?

swhobbit Sat 12-Jan-13 23:07:23

Apologies i wasn't meaning to be bitchey.
It has been very hard as a parent to see such negative & often unfounded comments based on media hype , often posted by people with no connection with the school at all. It can appear to a reader that there is an axe to grind ? As parents we have great faith in the school based on facts ; the well being & happiness of our kids , the regular & consistent updates that we have as a parent thru the parent forum & now by Ofsted that has confirmed that this is a good school with a clear mission to make improvements where necessary.
Re TC last post the specialism in Maths & Performing arts , i believe means that at some stage in their history they have had Ofsted endorsment that they excel within this area. Son is a G&T Maths member & has fast track lessons , he also joined the school with basic trumpet skills & gets free lessons.They still offer scholarships in sport & music.
Hope i haven't offended too much ?

Laysy89 Thu 24-Jan-13 13:36:02

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Laysy89 Thu 24-Jan-13 13:38:01

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gingeroots Thu 24-Jan-13 15:50:58


So if they're now above 40% because of retakes ,what are they ?

psammyad Thu 24-Jan-13 16:38:05

Not intended facetiously: but I'm guessing not above 50% (or possibly even 45%?) as I expect they would be then be described as "above 50%".

Yes, it's concerningly low, before or after the retakes.

However I've just re-read the Ofsted report: it's clear that the Ofsted inspectors were aware of the 2012 GCSE results - they refer to a 'significant dip in Year 11 students’ attainment and achievement in 2012' and make note of issues concerning this.
But they then give an overall judgement of "2" (ie Good) for both achievement and teaching. Improvements to be made - but definitively not "unsatisfactory".

I'm guessing it would be fairly unusual for a school with a bald attainment level as low as 36% to be given a 'good' for achievement?
Which I'm taking to mean that the Ofsted inspectors had a good idea of the issues faced, and a good amount of confidence in the school's ability to address them.

psammyad Thu 24-Jan-13 16:46:24

Laysy89 - the staff evaluation forms may not have been used, but the report does describe meetings with staff at various levels (as well as with parents, governors etc).

So presumably there was opportunity for staff to meet with the inspectors & raise issues, albeit not anonymously via the questionnaire.

I can see that there's good reason for anonymous questionnaires to be available - for staff as well as parents.
However if an organisation has suffered unduly from anonymous commenting (I'm thinking more of the online stuff, and not on this forum) then I can also see why it might be neccessary to remove that path of comment, unfortunately.

SminkoPinko Thu 24-Jan-13 18:14:55

I'm stunned that ofsted went for a "good" rating with a 36% 5 GCSE pass rate. I thought it was a sort of automatic fail if you couldn't get 40% plus? How can a school in the bottom 200 in the country results wise be judged "good"? Unless it was a special school or something?

Was feeling reassured by the ofsted report but now feel plunged into gloom again. My kids are the kind of lazy scrotes who will be in the 64% fail to get 5 GCSEs group, sure as eggs is eggs. I hope ofsted are right that the school has a good improvement plan.

psammyad Thu 24-Jan-13 18:27:15

Given the scrutiny this school is under - I doubt that Ofsted would give a 'good' rating to a school with a 36% pass rate, unless they were pretty bloody sure that there were good reasons for the low pass rate this year, and that those reasons were being addressed.

SminkoPinko Thu 24-Jan-13 19:08:13

I so, so, so hope you are right, psammyad.

gingeroots Fri 25-Jan-13 07:58:51

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FlouncingMintyy Fri 25-Jan-13 09:30:30

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gingeroots Fri 25-Jan-13 10:03:10

Absolutely agree Flouncing .

gingeroots Fri 25-Jan-13 10:15:40

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FlouncingMintyy Fri 25-Jan-13 10:34:44

The EDF thread has gone! What a surprise.

prh47bridge Fri 25-Jan-13 10:46:49

If the Ofsted report is itself libellous then quoting it is also libel. However, given the league table information, I cannot see any sensible case that this extract from the Ofsted report is libellous.

It could be argued as a breach of copyright but the report itself allows you to copy all or part of the report for non-commercial educational purposes provided you give details of the source and date of publication and do not alter the information in any way. Whilst you haven't stated the date of publication I think overall there is no real case that quoting this extract is a breach of copyright.

I can't remember what you said regarding concerns expressed in earlier threads. It may be that Mumsnet are unhappy with you referring to deleted threads. It is also possible that something you said was potentially libellous although I don't recall thinking there was anything amiss when I read your posts.

I've never had a post deleted so I've no idea if Mumsnet give you reasons for the deletion.

TimeChild Fri 25-Jan-13 11:54:41

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Alonglongway Fri 25-Jan-13 16:32:59

Ah.....good times....

FlouncingMintyy Fri 25-Jan-13 16:41:45

hmm hmm hmm

TimeChild Fri 25-Jan-13 16:49:38

shock hmm hmm

gingeroots Fri 25-Jan-13 19:32:41

prh - mumsnet don't give reasons for deletion .
Just the message that appears on the thread regarding breaking guidelines .

pippibluestocking Fri 25-Jan-13 23:47:31

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gingeroots Sat 26-Jan-13 09:43:56

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pippibluestocking Sat 26-Jan-13 12:00:19

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pippibluestocking Sat 26-Jan-13 12:01:06

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FlouncingMintyy Sun 27-Jan-13 20:06:03

Hq - have you been threatened to the extent that you have to delete every single message about this school? If so, could you please say so? Or make a public statement in the same way that you did about swmnbn. It would hopefully stop people from feeling that they are being unreasonably censored or picked on in some way.

pippibluestocking Sun 27-Jan-13 21:48:19

Ho ho - there you go a first deletion, followed by a 2nd and 3rd (the last of which was a typo correction). None were libelous and only voiced questions that any person will be thinking. Kingsdale - if you think that by demanding the deletion of posts that simply voice the questions and concerns that many parents have, that these concerns will go away, you are sadly misguided. This year's results will be very telling

gingeroots Mon 28-Jan-13 10:14:02

I'm sorry but I think this has got out of hand .

Post deleted for asking why a decision ( said decision mentioned in Ofsted report ) was made by school ?

Libel ?

Really ?

gingeroots Mon 28-Jan-13 10:38:10

And if I disappear from this thread it won't be from choice .

CarlingBlackMabel Mon 28-Jan-13 11:47:10

If I were a parent with kids currently in the school (I am a parent in the area) I would want an explanation, in some detail, about the causes behind the 'significant dip' and a clear and detailed statement about what measures would be taken. I am sure any cohort in any school can under-perform against target. Targets are really only educated guesses, and a few lazy scrotes (or teenagers as we call them) over average can surely skew a year's results. It's madness to think that any school can improve or hold a sky-high results every year.

I hope parents are being given more details than appear in the ofsted report.

But KD has had 'fair banding' for a few years now so I would have thought the overall results would generally be average against the national average.

We really need this school to be a continued success in S London, so I have no patience with any malicious rumour-mongering (if and when it occurs) but deleting discussion of publicly available facts is outrageous.

CarlingBlackMabel Tue 29-Jan-13 15:37:27

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

FlouncingMintyy Tue 29-Jan-13 18:02:17

Another reason why Kingsdale is widely discussed is because anyone can apply. Interest in most schools is broadly confined to those in the catchment or thinking of moving to the catchment. An awful lot of families can and do put Kingsdale on their list and hope for a place in the lottery.

TimeChild Tue 29-Jan-13 18:37:06

Mabel and Flouncyy, good points.

Tables are interesting reading, particularly the VA scores. Lewisham which traditionally was said to have better schools than Southwark, most of them dip under the crucial 1000 mark. Southwark fares better as does Lambeth. Across Southwark, Lambeth, Lewisham and Wandsworth though, only London Nautical and Deptford Green has lower VA scores than that school.

Hovisloaf Thu 31-Jan-13 08:51:41

if anyone saw the East Dulwich Forum threads yesterday, they were rather interesting but have all been deleted now, according to the administrator it is because the same group of people who have an axe to grind are using the forum to display such feelings. The forum yesterday was interesting but not malicious or didn't appear to being grinding any axes. This whole censorship malarkey is beyond acceptable now hmm

FlouncingMintyy Thu 31-Jan-13 09:47:24

Agreed. I find I am unable to say anything else!

Lowlands Thu 31-Jan-13 09:58:07

So even at 49% A*-C inc Maths and English after resits/remarks etc this is still below the LA average, UK average and 11% below the previous year. This is still a significant drop.

gingeroots Thu 31-Jan-13 10:11:04

But are you allowed to say that on line ?

Lowlands Thu 31-Jan-13 10:40:54

well if they have published themselves then why not? although wait I guess even that could be debated, maybe it should be reported?

Alonglongway Thu 31-Jan-13 10:56:07

What does functional English and maths mean?

Lowlands Thu 31-Jan-13 10:58:54

Functional skills are additional qualifications

gingeroots Thu 31-Jan-13 11:11:13

Oh dear I feel silly posting this on here but ...
p*****e - your account on EDF seems to have been deactivated ,can you PM me on here .
If you're around on here ,which I expect you are .

goes off muttering about George Orwell ......

Lowlands Thu 31-Jan-13 11:22:24

oh are accounts actually being deactivated on there too? craziness

gingeroots Thu 31-Jan-13 12:06:44

I don't really know .

Only that I received a PM from someone and now can't respond .

Message to say that user is deactivated .

How Orwellian is that ?

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 12:07:54

In the UK there are several different laws governing speech, on the internet and otherwise.

When Freedom of Speech was discussed on MN, I watched the news about such matters. And each time someone got into trouble about what they had written, it was a different part of the law that they were falling foul of.
I gave up when I had read of 5 different cases, each because of 5 different parts of the law.

gingeroots Thu 31-Jan-13 12:09:39

I'm sure it's complex .

Sure forum admins have no choice .

Hovisloaf Thu 31-Jan-13 12:27:06

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 12:46:35

"user is deactivated"
Might the poster have chosen to decativate themselves?

Can I sort of ask why it is being discussed on here

Have just seen you tube.
I dont know anything about the school other than that.

aliasPrickleandJones Thu 31-Jan-13 13:06:21

'tis me that was deactivated.

amillionyears, I didn't choose to deactivate myself. In fact tried to post this morning and found that I couldn't. No word from Admin. Quite rude I thought.

The point is, I didn't even post anything deflamatory prior to being deactivated. My only recent post in the deleted thread was to agree with someone - but that was enough. It would be useful to know why I was culled. Also I was quite active on EDF over the years. If Admin cared to look, I get quite excited about local issues - CPZ for one.

gingeroots Thu 31-Jan-13 13:11:30

amillionyears sorry ,must seem a bizarre discussion .

On here because it concerned Kingsdale and posts being deleted .

And I wanted to continue a conversation and couldn't contact the deactivated poster any other way .

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 13:31:31

Umm. Am more confused now, but never mind.
Dont know what EDF is [apart from an electric company], or CPZ.

I think the bit that is baffling me the most, is why this Kingsdale stuff is on MN.
There have been local meetings presumably, where things have been talked about, and names, addresses etc exchanged?

gingeroots Thu 31-Jan-13 13:35:27

EDF = East Dulwich Forum ,forum local to school .

It's on MN because of lack of public discussion .

Hovisloaf Thu 31-Jan-13 13:38:52

amilionyears, I think people have resorted to mumsnet because there is no acceptable or available forum otherwise. The Parent's Forum has set rules to say what can be discussed and how and when something can be discussed, and on the East Dulwich Forum, it is definitely deleted. Whilst lots is removed from mumsnet too, there seems to be a slightly more reasonable level of conversation allowed.

aliasPrickleandJones Thu 31-Jan-13 13:42:16

CPZ = controlled parking zone grin

Laysy89 Thu 31-Jan-13 13:48:47

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

CarlingBlackMabel Thu 31-Jan-13 13:53:55

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 13:57:52

alias grin

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 14:02:18

The East Dulwich Forum. It isnt on MN is it? It is a different seperate forum entirely?

CarlingBlackMabel Thu 31-Jan-13 14:25:47

amillionyears - yes, it is an entirely separate forum. A local forum for East Dulwich. It has a 'Family Discussions' board, The Family Room, on all aspects of parenting, and covers many of the same topics as MN does.

MN is often discussed in the EDF Family Room because people often use more than one parenting forum. Likewise it is not surprising that people on a MN thread about a school in East Dulwich (ish) would also use the EDF.

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 14:59:10

So Laysy is talking about the EDF forum? Where they went to see the administator, she is not talking about a MN administrator [actually, not sure that one exists?]

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 15:01:10

fwiw, I think the problem with all of this is, that online forums count as publications?
So, it is counted as the written word.
So different to say, a public meeting. Where things are said. Though I suppose someone could sue for slander, because of what is said in one of those meetings?

FlouncingMintyy Thu 31-Jan-13 15:02:08

Laysy is not talking about being deactivated from Mumsnet, no.

Hovisloaf Thu 31-Jan-13 15:42:46

also amillionyears if you published the fact that you were having a meeting, which you would have to, then the powers that be in the school would attend and that would create more problems such as being told you are being defamatory or guilty of slander.

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 15:58:44

Oh. I am used to things being on a smaller scale.

But public meetings are being held all the time, about this and that.

There must be rules. I dont personally hear of problems to do with defamation or slander.
Else there would never be public meetings at all?

but acknowledge that I am no expert.

Has there never been a public meeting about all of this?

Laysy89 Thu 31-Jan-13 17:16:43

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 17:44:59

I am sorry. I do not understand.

psammyad Thu 31-Jan-13 17:51:43

CarlingBlackMabel - I was quite shocked to see your post had been deleted (as I have been with a few others actually) especially as your 2 posts taken together were - as you say above- a plea for KD not to be unjustly undermined.

Annoyed with myself for not saving your post when I read it - I'm as curious as anyone to know what exactly is it is we're not meant to be saying so that we can actually carry on a discussion.

I've been trying to make only one kind of point per post so that only one post would be lost if it fell foul of the 'rules' but that will make discussion quite unwieldy...

CarlingBlackMabel Thu 31-Jan-13 17:52:50

People can't be holding a public meeting every time they want to ask for people's views on how well a school would suit thier child, or does any one know why the results at a particular school are sky high or dipping.

And if people see something about a school in the press, they may well want to find out what other parents think and will their Yr 7 be OK in the GCSE years etc etc without calling a public meeting.

The problem is that when parents discuss these things on the internet, by this one school, the school leans on the forum adminstrators to delete posts.

This is partly understandable because there has been internet coverage that has not been in the school's interest, and partly extremely frustrating because people with no axe to grind, nor malicious intent are also being deleted and banned and de-activated.

amillionyears, is your interest in passing or because you want to discuss some aspect of Kingsdale school?

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 18:01:53

I had not heard of Kingsdale school until I saw some posts on it this week.
In fact, I never went of this thread, because I thought people were talking about bread!

How do you know that the school are leaning on the forum administrators. And do you mean MN forum administrators, or someone else's forum administrators?

CarlingBlackMabel Thu 31-Jan-13 18:40:21

There probably is a bread thread somewhere, you know!

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 18:49:01

There are indeed plenty of bread maker threads, Carling!

Laysy89 Thu 31-Jan-13 21:47:08

amillionyears we have been told it by the administrators, if you type in Kingsdale all you need to do is look at the number of deleted threads and deleted posts.

It is hard to explain this situation without having this removed as well.

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 21:54:54

Laysy, do you mean the MNHQ administrators or EDF administrators?

prh47bridge Thu 31-Jan-13 22:07:14


By the way, a post on the EDF forum from the administrators there suggests they don't understand the law regarding libel. They talk about collecting details of posters to forward to the authorities when requested and also refer to "teacher coming back with the police". Libel is a civil matter, not a criminal one. The police would not get involved.

Laysy89 Thu 31-Jan-13 22:21:38

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Lambethlady Thu 31-Jan-13 22:49:57

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Alonglongway Thu 31-Jan-13 22:51:02

I'm optimistic about Kingsdale. I see signs of improvement in the communication that comes home. My only comparison is with older DC in same school but it is distinctly better. These online fora play a part in my view.

Levantine Thu 31-Jan-13 22:58:58


I have been following this thread as a parent with a primary age dc in the area. There are bloody thousands of us hoping to get our children into a half decent state comprehensive in this part of South London.It is imo entirely legitimate to discuss an Ofsted report of a tax funded school (or indeed any school) online.

Levantine Thu 31-Jan-13 23:03:44

Just to add - I have no interest in running down a good school, I am desperate for there to be more good schools in the area.

My best friend and my brother both went to Kingsdale in the 1980s. It was appalling. Thank God it has turned around - so, what next is a legitimate question

Lambethlady Thu 31-Jan-13 23:16:50

If this thread was discussing an Ofsted report then there would be no negativity as in my view as it is clear in black & white .... Kingsdale is a good school with outstanding behaviour for pupils. Shit results this year but schools have result spikes. It is the underhand gossip & ridiculous conspiracy theories that annoy me. If any of you have genuine concerns contact the school or don't select as an option - simple ?

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 23:25:52

Lambethlady, I have no idea who you are.
But any poster who rolls up and bad mouths people loses my attention immediately.

FlouncingMintyy Fri 01-Feb-13 08:30:04

Thanks for your post prh!

psammyad Fri 01-Feb-13 08:55:25

The admin post on the EDF was quite odd, to be sure.
Think they may well have been exasperated (putting it very mildly) with ALL sides.

CarlingBlackMabel Sat 02-Feb-13 16:59:47

I would like to state categorically that in my deleted posts there was not the slightest hint of a conspiracy theory or underhand gossip.

As Psammy said, I was commenting in general about the many unexpected spikes and dips this year across many S London schools, I have, as a result of some close encounters with the school always spoken out in favour of the dedicated teacheing, happy childen etc. For the sake of all families in S London I want KD to succeed and to be highly thought of, and continue to deliver a good education.

CarlingBlackMabel Sat 02-Feb-13 17:06:35

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

pippibluestocking Sat 02-Feb-13 23:18:29

Well said CBM,( though both your and my post will be deleted tomorrow I imagine!)

aliasPrickleandJones Sun 03-Feb-13 10:31:37

Too right CBM.

Hovisloaf Mon 04-Feb-13 11:03:58

You have hit the nail on the head CBM, in fact I have seen other posters accusing you of being too positive about the school previously. Why you and your posts have been treated in this way is unfathomable.

CarlingBlackMabel Wed 06-Feb-13 19:00:14

MNHQ - could we have some sort of special effect to make these deletions a bit more interesting?

An explosion graphic that goes across the page at the moment of deletion? A fanfare? Something gruesome?

Still, 3 days.....

Let me say in complete theoretical abstract. Schools are part of our communities. They educate our children, we contribute our taxes, we entrust our children to them - they have a huge influence in our lives. We like to talk WITH them.

And in general, people react badly to not being able to voice their views.

Anyway, I'm done. No intention of making life hard (er) for MNHQ, who are, I believe on the side of free speech.


<<disappears in a big flash of coloured smoke>>

gingeroots Wed 06-Feb-13 21:39:43

Good lord ,another deletion ?

Why ,just why ?

motherinferior Wed 06-Feb-13 21:42:47

<waits agog for Mysterious Disapparition>

<wonders if KD will demand all league tables will be similarly disapparated>

legalalien Thu 07-Feb-13 12:46:59

Gosh. This completely passed me by. Off to google.

gingeroots Thu 07-Feb-13 20:26:02

I tried to find the Ofsted report on the Ofsted site and couldn't - not by nearest address to home ,not by LA ,not by schools name and address .

Eventually I had to go through this thread and use the link posted earlier .

And actually ,even if you enter the schools URN into the Ofsted search it comes up with zero results .

I would normally think that this was a glitch on the Ofsted site ,but I do wonder .

prh47bridge Thu 07-Feb-13 22:02:03

Ofsted site working normally for me. A search shows the school and going into the school's record shows the Ofsted report.

Did you try searching for any other schools? It is not unknown for a site's search facility to break. Mumsnet's was broken a while ago when I was looking for one of my old posts!

gingeroots Fri 08-Feb-13 07:43:07

Thanks prh , must have been a glitch .

My paranoia seeping through the ether to infect other sites smile

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