Is it normal to give a DS detention for something a parent hasn't done?

(81 Posts)
Ilisten2theradio Tue 04-Dec-12 18:13:09

DS had a 15 minute detention today because I hadn't signed last weeks homework planner.

I had seen it and forgotten to sign it. BUT I think it is unfair to give him a detention for something that I didn't do.

WWYD? Or WDY think?

RedHelenB Tue 04-Dec-12 18:16:10

I think he should have forged it!! The onus is on the child to get the parent to do it - my two bring planner & pen to me & it takes a second!!!

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Tue 04-Dec-12 18:16:19

Does seem a bit mean but I guess the onus was on him to make sure you signed. It's his responsibility to get it signed, not yours.

Maybe. Child's responsibility to wave it at you on the right day I suppose And I wouldn't dream of signing a whole term at a time oh no

DD has a detention for not hitting a ball in vollyball but ducking out of the way.

She can't do it though because she has maths detention the same day.

She won't do either because detentions are in a hall she can't go in (AS)

I have given up.

GrimmaTheNome Tue 04-Dec-12 18:19:09

Yup. He's been given the detention for something he didn't do, ie make sure you signed the ruddy thing.

I bet you're in trouble though.

LynetteScavo Tue 04-Dec-12 18:21:32

So why didn't he just put in a quick squiggle like every other high school pupil does when they know the planner is going to be looked at?

I now sign a couple of weeks a head blush

BellaVita Tue 04-Dec-12 18:22:27

Yep. Would happen at my sons school.

waitingtobeamummy Tue 04-Dec-12 18:25:08

I get this with my form every week. It is incredibly frustrating that they don't get it signed, even though every single Friday we check them. It is his responsibility to get it done, I give behaviour points if they don't but if they were a pesistent offender it would be a detention.

pastoralacademia Tue 04-Dec-12 19:23:51

I now sign a couple of weeks a head In my school some tutors give out detentions if the parents do what you do. Some tutors give out detentions even if all the work has been done but the planner is not signed! Silly but some are just not fllexible.

DeWe Tue 04-Dec-12 19:47:28

We had that at school when I was there. What I did was, if I remembered then my mum signed it. It I forgot, then my "dad" signed it. His was easier to forge.

Some people solved it by forging every week so the signature looked the same. grin

KirstyJC Tue 04-Dec-12 19:53:31

I used to sign mine every week with my Mum's name - it was the same style handwriting as mine. Mum didn't even know it existed but did a great job covering up when it was mentioned to her at parents' evening. smile

treas Tue 04-Dec-12 20:22:58

Does seem unfair - would be even worse if the teacher even forgot to sign, as that would never happen, would it smile

cansu Tue 04-Dec-12 20:24:45

If you have a problem with this then you should perhaps be suggesting that the signature of parents is unnecessary. I am sure the teacher has better things to do than supervise detentions because it is unsigned. She is trying to keep on top of an admin job the school SMT have decided is important in the name of communication with parents. If there was no consequence then most children would not bother getting it signed. Personally I would be grateful that she is willing to make an effort to check and follow up.

botandhothered Tue 04-Dec-12 20:51:35

My friend, Veronica, was great at forging signatures. Do these children have no imagination these days?

NaturallyGullible Tue 04-Dec-12 21:02:25

Did you conscientiously refuse to sign it? If so, you have to man up and explain to the school.

If your DS did not approach you with his diary and a pen and a glass of wine at the same time, then he should take the 15 minutes on the chin.

abbierhodes Tue 04-Dec-12 21:07:53

I'm a form teacher. I only give a detention for this after several warnings. It is the child's job to get it signed. If a child said to me that the parent refused to sign it, then I'd ring the parent to check.

Blu Tue 04-Dec-12 21:12:22

DS also got some form of sanction because his wasn't signed. I think from the school's pov the onus is on him to get me to sign it.

He did attempt forgery but the 6th Form Prefect tasked with checking planners spotted it was different to the two signatures which have featured before. I said DS should have said he was living with his aunt during parental illness....

Apparantly canny pupils run 2 planners - one with all the 'bad' notes home, and one which gets signed.

mercibucket Tue 04-Dec-12 21:19:33

You need to plan from the start of the year. Get him to sign it every week then the signatures always look the same

mercibucket Tue 04-Dec-12 21:19:34

You need to plan from the start of the year. Get him to sign it every week then the signatures always look the same

abbierhodes Tue 04-Dec-12 21:25:31

Blu, that 2 planner idea is fantastic! Sometimes I have to admire their ingenuity. I will be teaching my kids my signature when they hit secondary age. Which is hypocritical as a teacher, I know.

Ilisten2theradio Tue 04-Dec-12 22:23:11

Well DS has AS so is not good at lying so wouldn't say I refused.
He also has organisational problems and they are known to school - so I think it was wrong of them from that point of view.
What I was trying to gauge however was if this is a common occurance if there are no SN's and if the teacher just needs a bit of a nudge re this, or if it is an unusual thing to do anyway.

Arisbottle Tue 04-Dec-12 22:23:15

Surely you look at your child's planner as you supervise, discuss it check homework .

The point of signing the planner is to show that you know what they have been doing over the past week .

I tippex out planners signed weeks in advance . I also authorise detentions for persistently failing to get a planner signed .

Ilisten2theradio Tue 04-Dec-12 22:25:11

Arisbottle - yes I do look at it as DS has SN's we need to look at it and jog it along. I forgot to sign though - and that is surely my mistake and not DS's so why should he be punished.

Arisbottle Tue 04-Dec-12 22:30:32

If it is the first time it is not signed he should not be punished however if this is regularly happening I agree with the detention. Unless his SN are extreme it is his responsibility

Ilisten2theradio Tue 04-Dec-12 22:37:39

I didn't come here to discuss his SN's I came to see what is the norm.

FWIW his statement does say he has organizational problems, and he needs help to ensure that he is recording his homework correctly amongst other things to do with organisation. The school is not helping with this so the contents that I am supposed to be signing are not necessarily correct anyway.

Blu Tue 04-Dec-12 22:43:45

It's normal in DS's school , Yr 7, to get a 'yellow card' for planner not being signed, first offence.

Detentions left, right and centre. Detention this week for not having printed out homework, although the homework had beeen meticulously and imaginitively completed and e mailed to the teacher as instructed. Our printer just doesn't print, half the time.

OP - I suspect that the school would see it as his reposnsiblility to make sure that you have signed it and not forgotten to sign it.

If you are not happy, discuss it with his tutor.

RedHelenB Wed 05-Dec-12 07:37:23

He should have had his planner signed & he didn't therefore detention. Not sure what's unfair about it exactly? Don't feel bad about it, these things happen but next week just make sure it's signed.

GrimmaTheNome Wed 05-Dec-12 09:07:57

>It's normal in DS's school , Yr 7, to get a 'yellow card' for planner not being signed, first offence.

DDs school has a system of 3 'penalty points' before a detention is issued. They don't give detentions for the first halfterm of yr7 and then wipe the slate clean, to let them learn how to organise. Very few of them actually get detentions.

A detention for not printing homework at home is quite outrageous- don't they have printer facilities in the school for kids who don't have a (functioning) printer at home?

OP - I think the norm is that there is a consequence on the child for this sort of thing, however in your DSs case judgement should be tempered with mercy.

picketywick Wed 05-Dec-12 13:10:37

Maybe some teachers are more childish than the children.

Lancelottie Wed 05-Dec-12 13:19:23

Umm.
I should know this by now (oldest child is 16) but is the idea to sign to say:

that you have seen that week's homework list
that you have seen the homework completed
or just
that you have seen that the page exists in the planner?

I've never discovered which week I'm meant to be signing for!

Lancelottie Wed 05-Dec-12 13:19:52

Luckily both DSs are effective forgers and tend to miss me out of the loop.

Startail Wed 05-Dec-12 13:24:24

My DD makes my sign her planner for months in advance, and hands me a big handful of different coloured pens so it isn't too obvious.

She says her tutor never turns over and she knows we will both forget.

I've never ever read her planner, she's dyslexic and it's totally incomprehensible.

I really do not understand why we are expected to look at senior school planners. The teachers don't write in them, they are just lists of HW to be done. Even DD2's neat one makes no sense to me.

Personally I think my job begins and ends with remembering to say "Have you any HW and have you checked your planner?".

GreatCongas Wed 05-Dec-12 13:24:35

The key is to make the Signature right from the beginning so it never looks different blush

drivinmecrazy Wed 05-Dec-12 13:27:38

DD got a ranting from me last week, I accused her of forging my signature. Turned out I had signed it when she woke me the morning she needed it signed and I was barely awake. She, of course, denied forging my signature so we showed it to a jury of friends (who were equally split on who signed it). Poor child, had to give her the benefit of the doubt because my signature does change from time to time. Don't know why I was so concerned though cos although I sign it I'm never sure why. I see her doing homework but don't run a check list as to what H/W she is doing. Bonkers really!

Startail Wed 05-Dec-12 13:29:06

No way am I going to ask to see completed HW, they aren't babies.

DD1 may throw stuff at DH and me to proof and DD2 asks maths and science questions sometimes.

But, that's their choice. No way am I going to read through English for DD2, her spelling is better than mine and I can't judge what is required.

Blu Wed 05-Dec-12 13:31:16

Grimma - under the harsh regime that is how a S London Comp retains engagement and does well, the theory is that he should have left more leeway for printing it at school, i.e done it at school on Friday rather than doing the homework Friday night, encountering malfunctioning home printer and attempting to print at school on Monday when you have to queue with everyone else in the short break slot - he just didn't get to the front of the queue.

He had carefully scheduled that homework on Fri night to fit around after-school music classes, concert rehearsals and other homework,so he did actually do his organisational best, but I am engendering a 'you win some, you lose some' approach otherwise well-intentioned, hard-working, prone to get anxious and with a a fear of failing DS will get very discouraged.

Ilisten2theradio Wed 05-Dec-12 13:38:33

Well, I got the answer I was seeking, but am quite amused reading this thread at the very different answers coming up, very noticable is the difference in attitude between the teachers posting on here - very straightlaced, and the parents who can't see the point of actually signing smile.

hoodoo12345 Wed 05-Dec-12 13:51:19

My DD has missed 10 minutes off her break before for getting to ask me to sign her planner, but i feel the responsibility is on her to make sure it's done.

Also i would be majorly pissed if i found out she had ever forged my signature...

Lancelottie Wed 05-Dec-12 13:53:11

Well, OP, I've never discovered what we are signing for.

DS1 seems to have got through his GCSEs without me discovering it, so I suspect it doesn't matter too much.

lljkk Wed 05-Dec-12 14:18:58

Those of you who know that you're supposed to sign the planners,
and that know that it's the child's job to make sure you've signed,

How do you know these things? confused At what point in induction or whatever were you informed?

What what does it mean when you sign, beyond the fact that you've read it? Is it supposed to mean you've tried to make sure they do the work, that you've discussed it, what?

We have been told none of that, btw. DH got a text about a month ago to say we haven't been signing. I am reluctant to sign since I haven't been told what signing it means.

I am perversely resisting the impulse to ring school to ask partly because I am trying to be as hands off as possible about homework. I impose sanctions if I discover it wasn't done, but other than that, I want him to get on with it, learning from any mistakes made along the way.

mummytime Wed 05-Dec-12 14:33:08

My DD nags me endlessly to sign hers. She was told in the first couple of days about planner signing (I already knew from her big brother).

The point of signing is that it means parents have had an opportunity to look at the planners, and if interested: check what homework has been set and done, so student can't just say they didn't have any; check on detentions; check on credits and give praise. Of course the school can't ensure that parents do any of these.

DD does have a friend who has a problem as her signature and her mums are identical, including the same initial.

Lancelottie Wed 05-Dec-12 14:39:03

Ah, we have a well informed person here! So, MT, do you sign it for the week just gone by, or once the homework has been done for that week (sometimes set up to 3 weeks in advance here, so I imagine you don't wait that long)?

mummytime Wed 05-Dec-12 14:40:01

Oh BTW teachers do write in both my DCs planners as they are dyslexic, and otherwise: DS writes something unintelligible to him and me; DD gets the wrong end of the stick and writes something which is "not the homework". Fr example for DD, she wrote in her homework for Maths last week and worried about it; it said =Finish diagrams; her homework was = revise for test.

I help with homework by: nagging, "Do you have homework?"; deciphering teachers hand writing; reading a check list of subjects. I also help by answering questions put to me, which includes revising A'level Maths now (thank heavens for Wikipaedia one of our other textbooks).

Elibean Wed 05-Dec-12 14:52:28

Maybe missed it, but how old is your ds?

Kids, as opposed to parents, are held responsible for signed reading books from Y4 at our school - in terms of actual withheld playtime. They get nagged before that, obviously smile

mummytime Wed 05-Dec-12 14:58:38

My DD wants me to sign in advance, but I refuse to sign until Friday. She has never had a planner related detention, but has had a warning.

A friend's son signed his own a term before being found out.

EugenesAxeChoppedDownANiceTree Wed 05-Dec-12 15:00:13

Forging my DM's signature was one of the first things I perfected.

EugenesAxeChoppedDownANiceTree Wed 05-Dec-12 15:00:51

After starting secondary school that is. Not in life. grin

GrimmaTheNome Wed 05-Dec-12 15:10:33

Slacker. grin

Jojobells1986 Wed 05-Dec-12 15:22:55

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who forged their parents' signatures! We wouldn't get detention but would've been made to write lines if we didn't get it signed. I was so terrified of getting into trouble that I started copying my mum's signature on a regular basis. Eventually my parents realised that neither of them had signed for a while. They were very surprised to discover my mum's signature... I didn't get in trouble though - they were too impressed by how good it was to punish me! grin They did make me promise never to do it again though!

bigbluebus Wed 05-Dec-12 15:26:25

No requirement to sign planners at my DSs school. However, when DS has had detention, I often feel it is more of a punishment for me than him. He gets kept behind at school for 1 1/2 hrs and lounges around playing on computers completes homework, if that was what the detention was for.
However, as we live in a rural area, he misses the school bus, so I have to load disabled DD into car and go and pick him up. So I would feel no guilt at all if DS got a detention for something that I had failed to do!!!

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Wed 05-Dec-12 15:37:24

The point is that some unsigned planners will be the result of parental error and some the result of the pupil not getting it signed. It is impossible to tell which is which.

mummytime Wed 05-Dec-12 17:53:09

bigbluebus we have a similar issue for some pupils at DCs school (some come from a village by bus). I think part of the punishment of after school detentions (most are in school time) is that the parent moans and complains.

Haggisfish Wed 05-Dec-12 22:31:48

Checking planners are signed is one of the bains of my life as a tutor. It amazes me more students don't have the nous to forge the signature, or get it done weeks in advance. I tend to find parents who sign them are the sort of parent who know what is going on anyway and vice versa.

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Thu 06-Dec-12 07:13:16

DSs school has a mentor system - two 6th formers in each tutor group. I think many tutors palm off the planner signing onto them!

Lancelottie Thu 06-Dec-12 09:34:22

It could make an interesting interview question, actually.
'When in school, what approach did you take to the requirement that your planner had to be signed every week?'

Persuaded parents to sign = straitlaced, organised, suitable office manager
Forged signature = unscrupulous but effective, might make a journalist
Ran two planners = tax accountant for Amazon...

RooneyMara Thu 06-Dec-12 09:49:00

God it sounds a pointless punishment for something so pathetic

Are all secondary schools like this?

chocoluvva Thu 06-Dec-12 09:56:59

grin at Lancelottie
This sort of approach by schools drives me crackers! What is it with schools these days? As if the curriculum isn't overloaded already and paperwork isn't excessive best require teachers to check that a form has been signed by parents every week.
I know this will make me sound like an old gimmer.....
But to continue this rant anyway - I did well at school despite no parental input. And like my parents I consider that I support the school by doing my utmost to have the DCs there on time, behave themselves when they're there and foster an attitude that values EDUCATION.
The older teachers I know don't approve of asking parents to sign homework planners and suchlike nonsense as they know that some parents just won't and they'd rather their pupils spent their evenings doing scouts/brownies/swimming/reading for pleasure/practising an instrument/baking etc than spending ages doing ridiculous projects.
Schools are not gods - they're institutions which are meant to provide an education for six hours a day five days a week. After that they can buzz off with their endless planners, projects, dressing-up, £4000 trips to latin america etc.

Great thread - YADNBU

mummytime Thu 06-Dec-12 10:36:37

Checking planners doesn't need to take long! My DCs school has 1/2 hour form time each day (at 1:30), some of these (1-2) are used for assemblies. 1-2 are normally "reading", the other one the teacher goes around and they have planners on desk, it takes no more than 5 minutes to check everyones planner (I have done it as a student at another school).
If you are very strict at the beginning of the year, they know you will turn to detention page and write in warning or detention.
At all schools I know planners are diaries given to students at the beginning of the year, and they are supposed to betaken to all lessons, and detentions will be given if not done so.

Students do much better if parents are involved. Yes some parents couldn't give a damn, but that isn't an excuse for schools not to try.

Also most detentions at DCs school are given at Lunchtime, often in the Hall with SLT on duty, sometimes in a central space for specific subjects.

But maybe this is why DCs school is one of the highest performing Comprehensives in the country?

seeker Thu 06-Dec-12 10:39:00

Or you could just sign it?

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Thu 06-Dec-12 11:13:50

DS1 told me I had to sign his planner as he was leaving (late) for the bus this morning. I refused as there was no time and he told me it would be my fault he got a detention. I simply pointed out that it was his fault he hadn't asked me at any point in the last 24 hours or so. [shrug]

noblegiraffe Thu 06-Dec-12 11:40:50

Tutors get bollocked by heads of year if they don't monitor planners and signatures at my school, so the shit filters down.

pastoralacademia Thu 06-Dec-12 11:56:07

DS1 told me I had to sign his planner as he was leaving (late) for the bus this morning. I refused as there was no time and he told me it would be my fault he got a detention. I simply pointed out that it was his fault he hadn't asked me at any point in the last 24 hours or so. [shrug] charming!!!!

ChippingInAWinterWonderland Thu 06-Dec-12 12:08:17

Are they nice planners?

stationery addict

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Thu 06-Dec-12 12:10:41

Who's charming??

pastoralacademia Thu 06-Dec-12 12:13:43

biscuit

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Thu 06-Dec-12 12:19:05

What are you on about?

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Thu 06-Dec-12 12:20:56

Please explain your comment, it would be most helpful.

SuffolkNWhat Thu 06-Dec-12 12:48:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lljkk Thu 06-Dec-12 13:43:35

Please, SuffolkNWhat: What does it mean to YOU for a parent to sign a planner? I've never been told (apologies if answer is buried somewhere in this long thread).

SuffolkNWhat Thu 06-Dec-12 13:54:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lancelottie Thu 06-Dec-12 14:09:06

Ah ha! Completion of homework, not setting of homework? So we should be signing it for a week or so previously, not up to date? (Head explodes...)

chocoluvva Thu 06-Dec-12 14:11:45

I care deeply about my DCs education - that's why I buy them books at Christmas, encourage their academic interests, ask them if they've homework to do, discourage too much screen-nonsense - but I'm not prepared to sit over them doing homework in the evening.
My DCs' excellent (state) schools don't require planners to be signed.
Most of the posts on this thread give the impression that signing planners and checking they've been signed is a largely meaningless activity.

lljkk Thu 06-Dec-12 17:48:19

So the point of parent signing is to make a statement that to the best of their knowledge homework has been completed?

In your planners, are detention plans recorded in the previous week or elsewhere, are parents expected to check different pages of the planner?

Why is none of this ever explained to parents?

Two of the local secondaries has parental logins, with info on them like homework & debits. I think I would find that more accessible (DS planner is away at school with him half the time). Sadly, DS school lacks parent login accounts.

RooneyMara Thu 06-Dec-12 17:54:03

Bit in love with Chipping, here grin

Blissx Thu 06-Dec-12 19:24:50

You didn't come on here to discuss his SN, yet mention it a couple of times with the tone that this should excuse him, so don't be too harsh on Arisbottle!
Incidentally, it appears the school is trying to support his dis-organisation by following procedures and repetitive consequences rather than just ignoring it and letting him off the detention because of his statement, with the possibility it might get worse.

gallivantsaregood Thu 06-Dec-12 19:38:34

TBH I think that saying it is the child's responsibility is in mnay circumstances unfair.

Ok this was an accident. But not all parents are consciencious and some just don't care and some may even just refuse because they are gits! And the child recveives the punishment......

It is my opinion ( and I am allowed to have it) that there are still lots of teachers around who enjoy the power imbalance of child/teacher and I have a wee problem with that.

I am also aware there are lots of really great teachers too, but that doesn't help the kids stuch with not only crap parents but power hungry teachers to boot!

Rant over smile

ChippingInAWinterWonderland Thu 06-Dec-12 23:18:55

Rooney - meet you in the stationery cupboard wink

(Did you notice that not a buggers one replied to my very important question??)

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Fri 07-Dec-12 07:23:27

DSs planner is a horrid cheap thing with a saffron coloured cover. TBH, I expected at least a Moleskine from the fees we're paying grin

RooneyMara Fri 07-Dec-12 07:41:54

I know. You'd think there was something more urgent to talk about wouldn't you. grin

RooneyMara Fri 07-Dec-12 07:42:34

Oh sleep deprived x posts! Not Moleskine, how could they...crikey.

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Fri 07-Dec-12 07:54:46

It's a disgrace <<shakes head>>

On topic though, I signed 2 planners for the last 2 weeks this morning and suggested DS1 learn to forge his father's signature (it's easy).

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