Richmond-upon-Thames: great primaries, shite secondaries. Discuss

[willow]

R-u-T crows on about its excellent primary schools, but it largely fails kids beyond year six. Everyone seems to be either busting a gut and going private, moving kids now to linked schools elsewhere or finding God in an attempt to get into Christ's... which is hardly top notch but better than Shite International.

Discuss.

[CaptainUnderpants]

I think it is the same anywhere round that way. We live Surrey side of Kingston , excatly the same . Good primary schools but its doesn't follow with secondary,plus it appears they do not have the space to cope with demand, in fact last year ther was a big ho ha with Claygate families as they didn't get into Hinchely Wood, Esher High and were sent to either Rydens or a failing school in Epsom/ Ewell.

[willow]

Why can't they manage to follow through, though? Is it simply that they expect everyone to just bow out?

[mary21]

Dont know that the primaries are that great either actually. there is such alot of private tutoring going on in RUT what the schools get uo to is masked.

[MsDav]

Waldegrave and Orleans Park are pretty good, Christs and Grey Court definitely on the up and now oversubscribed. I do wish Richmond would stop this linked schools nonsense its just a way to get around the Greenwich ruling isn't it? They don't want us pesky North Kingston lot being able to go to their schools unless its Grey Court which with its large increase in results and popularity will probably mean we'll lose our linked status there too. We're getting our own secondary school here in 2015, not before time!

[willow]

Never mind you pesky North Kingston lot - even Richmond lot can't get into Christs and Grey Court.

[policywonk]

Just got to say, as a point of interest, that when I was growing up in East Sheen, Christ's was regarded as a dreadful school and parents would do everything in their power to avoid it. Funny how things change.

(CU - Rydens is my local secondary - it's not that bad, is it?)

[CaptainUnderpants]

I dont think it is, I think the issue was travelling , the LEA were not prepared to pay for travel (not 100% sure on that).

I think Rydens is Ok in the scheme of things,might not have been to the taste of some of the Claygate parents mind you

will duck an take cover should any come onto this thread .

[policywonk]

ah right, I see. Fair enough to not want to travel from Claygate when there are closer schools. Glad to hear Rydens not a den of iniquity and drug-taking - the children I see coming out of there always seems very pleasant and polite!

[CaptainUnderpants]

In fairness to the parents in Claygate they got themselves togther an action group and appeared to make some progress.

claygate class action

[mary21]

I think one problem with Richmond secondaries is their lack of 6th form. Which means they cant attract the type of teachers who enjoy teaching bright 16 +'s.
At one time Richmond used to say its results for secondary were poor compared to primary because all the bright pupils went private.Dont really think that is the case.
It will be interesting to see how the new academies pan out at Hampton and Whitton. Shame they will have only been running for 6 weeks when we have to make our choices next year,

[fridayschild]

Well it's all so cumulative isn't it? We are very happy with the RuT primary the DCs are at, but very concerned about where they will go next. A chat with the head left me with the view that in fact we would almost certainly end up in the private sector for secondary level; dinner party gossip holds this to be a universal truth; DH having been exclusively privately educated himself is not willing to take risks with the DCs future. So at home I have the form to sign this week accepting places at a private school for September 2010. We would stay in the state sector (is that strengthening it? seems a bit of an arrogant assumption) if we felt we could. Meanwhile my mates at the DCs school all talk about leaving London if private education is not a financial option for them. But if we all went en masse to the local state secondaries, they would have the benefit of middle class parents who are presumed to help raise standards.

The individual good is not the collective one in this case.

[MrsGuyOfChristmasBorn]

Mary - you have hit the nail on the head, I have long been convinced it is the lack of 6th form that has led to this. Agree with Willow. When I was in NCT 11 years ago (!) we had a talk from the local authority about primaries, and the admissions woman told me openly it was ironic everyone was fighting to get into the 'best' primary, but ALL the primaries were good & the secondaries were rubbish .
Having said that, I know someone who has lied about their address this year to get into Grey Court, so maybe confidence is building

[deaddei]

Grey Court is definitely very popular with Kingston parents- well some of them anyway. Seems lots of dcs from St Paul's, Coombe Hill see it as a viable option these days.

[secretskillrelationships]

You think you've got problems! The whole of Hampshire seems to be a sixth-form free zone. Also, all schools seem to be 7-form entry. Afraid we legged it into private sector for DS who really struggles with the scale of most schools. And even then we worried about an entry of 60 (which, to be honest, he has found difficult). He really thrived in a school of around 25 (that's total, not per year) and it really made me think about the whole human-scale thing!

All three DCs at the same school but beginning to revisit the 'all schools are rubbish' feeling that I've had for some time. Lack of respect, failing to treat children as individuals, completely failing to recognise the best, research-based strategies for teaching children. The fact that, even though we are spending a fortune on education, some teachers still feel it is appropriate to shout at children on a routine basis.

We got out of Richmond when the only house we liked (i.e. could afford) when we came to trade up didn't actually come into a single school's catchment area!

[policywonk]

Interesting about the lack of sixth-forms. I went to Kingston FE College for my A Levels; the teaching was (almost) uniformly excellent - lots of vv bright teenagers, good results. Don't be afraid of FE colleges.

[mary21]

Its not so much being afraid of FE colleges but if some of those excellent teacher were at the secondaries teaching GCSE as well as Alevel it might help improve teaching age 14-16 and be a bit more inspirational

[JingleAllTheWay]

Thought Teddington School was good?

[willow]

Yes, Teddington is supposed to be good. Friend pulled her kids out of an E Sheen primary and moved them half way through to Teddington primary, so that they would be in linked school and able to access the secondary. Problem for all of us is that we'd have to do the same to stand a chance of getting in. You can live next door to a great secondary, but if kids aren't in linked primary you might as well live on the moon. DS so happy in year five but might have to do something similar at this rate.

Pollicywonk - not sure Christ's could qualify as good, more lesser of two evils?

And yes, if we all bit the bullet and sent out kids en-masse maybe that would speed up change, but it just won't happen.

Lack of sixth form a definite issue - we're petitioning to have Shit International have one when it becomes an academy for just that reason.

[MsDav]

Willow, Christs got very good results last year and the Head is very impressive. We did the tour and really liked it. Its very small, more the size of a large primary really and definitely worth considering IMHO. DD is at Grey Court and really doing well, the new Head their has done wonders their and takes no prisoners. Bad behaviour is simply not tolerated etc

[stillfeel18inside]

I live in Ham (near Greycourt) and it's interesting how different the situation is here from Sheen - my kids go to good local primary and they and almost all their friends will go to Greycourt. It's definitely seen as a very positive choice by parents round here and we were very impressed with it when we visited - interesting lessons, very orderly (we saw the changeover between lessons), lots of sports on offer now and a real sense of pride in the school from all the teachers and students. I do think it has something to do with the fact that we're in a slightly less affluent area than Sheen, Richmond etc, so the vast majority of people go to the local secondary school, which in turn brings up the standard of the school (although I know it went through a v bad patch a few years ago) whereas in Sheen, the local secondary seems to be one of those "over my dead body" places.

[AnnyBee]

Have just joined mumsnet so coming to this topic very late. Just wanted to say that you are very out of date with your comments about Shene School - it is now very much on the up and the new head is doing great things. My daughter is there and thriving, loves school and has made many lovely new friends.
I think the point here is don't listen to gossip - go and find out for yourself by visiting a school. Most secondary schools will show you around - unless they have something to hide.

[HeadFairy]

Exactly the same here in Reigate/Redhill - is it a Surrey thing? Rich folk think there's no point in sending their kids to private primaries so the schools are full of clever rich children who are all getting extra coaching at home and are doing really well, then they all go off to private schools leaving the less clever/less well off behind to scrabble over the remains, which is underfunded by Surrey because they don't think it's worth it.

[Madsometimes]

It is the same across London in Blackheath/Greenwich. Here people either tutor and try to get an out of borough grammar school place in neighbouring Bexley or Bromley or pay or pray.

I think it is just a London thing.

[QualityControl]

From Mona Adams, Community Governor, Shene School

According to the US President and our own David Cameron, change is the
life blood of progress. Obama is already doing it doing it and Cameron
is convinced that his Conservative government, given the chance, will do
it, come May 7. Change is in the air. But change doesn't happen
overnight. It takes time to do - and it sometimes takes time for
outsiders to absorb. Over the last two years Shene School has changed

• academically, pastorally, behaviourally. We are now one of the

nation's top 26 most improved schools and, this year, the Borough's top
for enhancement. Our exam results are up by 14% and our local primary
Headteachers applaud our achievements. Diana Johnson, Parliamentary
Under Secretary of State for Schools wrote to us recently 'I would like
to thank and congratulate you and everyone at your school for the
commitment, hard work and persistence that has led to the positive and
encouraging GCSE results that you achieved in 2009'. Shene School,
2010 version? That's Change, with a capital 'C'. Come and see for
yourself what's already been done and what we have planned for the
future. Our pupils will definitely change your mind about their school

• even, we feel, someone as ill-informed and out of touch as 'Willow'.

And be proud to do so.

[deaddei]

AnnyBee- well said.
I'm in Kingston, and we are in a similar position with Coombe Boys- 5 years into a Federation with Coombe Girls (outstanding school)
You wouldn't believe the face people pull when you say your ds is going there- and you're happy about it.
"Can't you afford private?" said one parent at the school gates.
Yes the boys in year 10/11 may still be challenging- but the 7,8 and 9's are from local schools, mainly with parents who support and want their sons to do well.
Yes the exam results are nothing special- but wait till current year 9's are taking GCSEs.
I am proud my ds is going there- I've already signed up to the PFA and the school know if there are disruptive elements who are stopping my ds from learning- I will be in, as will other parents.