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Secondary education

What questions would you ask when choosing a sixth form?

11 replies

mamhaf · 21/02/2009 08:55

DD1 and I will be visiting three sixth forms at local schools in the next few weeks so she can make a decision on which one to attend.

I've already posted on concerns about sickness absence at her present school and will ask about sickness levels at each of them (as well as putting in a formal Freedom of Information Request), but what other questions/information would anyone else suggest? And what would you look for? Any teachers out there who can give us some 'inside advice'?

She's academic and motivated - we don't need to nag her to study - so it's a case of finding somewhere offering the subjects she wants to take - definitely Spanish, English, possibly History and either Physics or Biology and which has a strong teaching record in those subjects plus somewhere that she thinks she'll be able to settle and be happy of course.

One of the schools she's interested in offers the International Baccalaureate;t her present school is keen for students to take the Welsh Baccalaureate.

Other questions on the list so far are:
What percentage of last year's students, in the subjects she's interested in, obtained an A or B at A'level
What support do you give potential Oxbridge candidates?
Do you have a debating society?
What sports do the school offer?
What sort of problems have you encountered with sixth form pupils in the past and how have you overcome any difficulties? (A friend's daughter at her present school stopped going to lessons and the school was very slow to alert the parents who are now forking out £21k a year for her to attend a private school and redo her lower sixth year)

Thanks if you've stayed with this, I'd be very grateful for any advice.

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magentadreamer · 21/02/2009 14:45

My local 6th form college - in the top 5 in the country offers a wide range of what they call enrichment activities debating societies,community service,poetry, creative writing, first aid, engineering etc to name but a few which are tabled into the timetable so each student does I think one or two of these I'm assuming this would give the student stuff to put on an UCAS form as well. Plus key skills - communication, ICT and application of number which again are timetabled in and give points for applications. I'm not too sure if other 6th colleges do this but I was amazed at the different stuff on offer.

My DD is along way off selecting a 6th form college but I'm hoping that in 5 years time the college is still as good as it is now and see gets a place should she want to do A levels

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magentadreamer · 21/02/2009 14:46

Sorry I should have added this is a state 6th college.

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SAMS73 · 21/02/2009 22:17

Just interested - which school in Wales offers IB( as you have mentioned welsh Bacc).No adv regarding 6th form college. My DD is only 8. I am agonising to which school to send her to next year yr4 (private).I thought none of the Welsh schools offer IB.

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mamhaf · 21/02/2009 23:48

Whitchurch High School in Cardiff offers the IB (and the Welsh Bac)

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SAMS73 · 21/02/2009 23:57

Very intersting that whitchurch high is offering IB.Thanks for answering.Hope you choose the best for your DD. One of my friend was agonising how she let her DD choose the school but is now regreting as her DD has not attained her full potential. Good Luck.

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scienceteacher · 22/02/2009 08:05

A good question to ask is whether she would have a free choice of A-levels or if they have to fall into option blocks.

Also, their class size policy - is there a minimum before they will run the course, and what is the maximum.

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mamhaf · 22/02/2009 09:25

Thanks Scienceteacher.

Sam - it's tricky isn't it? I've told her the main priority is that she's happy and that ultimately it has to be her choice - it's her life and at 16 she's old enough to make her own decisions...but that I will help her make an informed choice and understand the implications and weigh up the pros and cons of each school.

If it's a choice between somewhere that seems better academically but she doesn't think she'd be happy there, then it would be counter-productive as she wouldn't thrive no matter how good the school is.

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SAMS73 · 22/02/2009 09:49

absolutely. We all want the best for them. I do find the options are somewhat limited in cardiff - considering it is a big city.Did u look at cardiff high or radyr.Almost all of them who I know and went to cardiff high or even cowbridge comp had tutoring for their GCSE/A exams.

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Karamazov · 22/02/2009 14:09

I teach at a 6th form college and the things that would be important to me are...

What is the average grades for students for each subject that your DD is considering? (Not the average point score per student which a school/college may boost up their scores by making students do General Studies / critical thinking - subjects not included in the offers at Oxbridge, so you need to look behind the headline statistics iyswim!) but look at the results for the subjects your DD will be doing - they can vary greatly, even within an institution.

Also, I'd ask about the syllabus for each of the courses that you are considering - for example, in history which period will they be studying? I did 16th Century Spanish history for my 'A' level and it was sooo hard and boring - is the period right for her? Also, it might be worth comparing the exam boards and looking at what is required of them. For example, in My subject, (RS) we teach EDEXCEL which requires detailed knowledge of a few philosophical arguments, whereas OCR requires students to know lots but not in any great detail. I know some students struggle with the Depth of EDEXCEL, but in the past I have taught OCR and other students have struggled with the 'whistlestop tour' approach of that exam board - different things suit different students, so you need to ensure that what she will be studying will suit her best.

An important thing for 'A' level is the amount of extra support available to students - are there revision classes, one to one support if needed (strangely, I find a lot of 'A' graders at GCSE struggle with the transition from GCSE to 'A' level). Are the students encouraged to speak to the teachers outside of class, or discouraged?) We actively encourage our students to see us outside of class if there's a problem, but other colleges really discourage that.

I'd also look at retention rates and policies - even the best students at GCSE drop out sometimes when the stress gets too much for them. How do they support students, what is on offer for them? Also, what happens if she doesn't like her chosen subjects once she's started them? This happens a lot - is there support if she wants to change etc?

Also, look at Oxbridge / UCAS support of you are thinking of that.

However, the most important thing for me, would be to find somewhere where your daughter is going to be happy studying for the next two years. It is always worthwhile remembering that school for the next two years will be optional, and if she is going to a new school, then her success will probably depend upon fitting in and wanting to be there... I always say to students to go somewhere where they want to be, doing something that that they want to do - because then they will succeed, Whereas if they are unhappy and don't like where they are, that's when students drop out, and leave etc. So for me, this would be the most important question.

One final thing, the school with the highest results may not necessarily be the best. I once taught in a very high achieving school, great results, but the students were completely spoonfed, and were not being taught to be independent learners - no preparation for uni at all. I'm now at a good 6th form college - Good results, but not as high achieving, but the students are more well rounded and better prepared for uni because they are given more responsibility for managing their own learning, and I think they generally thrive on it. (Although it doesn't suit all students of course). But, the 'A' grade student will still get 'A' grades here too - but they also learn so much more, and are more prepared for uni at the end of it. I think there is more to 6th form than just the academic side of things.

However, these are just my thoughts, I've got another 10 years before my DDs choose their 6th forms. And sorry it is so long! Good luck.

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mamhaf · 23/02/2009 20:58

Thanks Karamazov - that's excellent advice and just the kind of thing we're looking for.

One of the advantages of the Baccalaureate qualification - either the Welsh Bac or the IB - seems to be that it does give students a much broader experience of learning and independent study that that gained from straight A'level qualifications - they have to carry out community work for example as well as some public speaking and an element of philosophy, so hopefully avoiding too much spoonfeeding.

I know from the recruitment side of my own job that people with brilliant academic achievements are often not the ones who do best in a workplace environment, so I agree that there's much more to 6th form (and life!) than the highest grades.

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echt · 26/02/2009 19:37

I would ask what is their policy when a teacher phones in sick - lots of them do not require a teacher of 6th form groups to set work. It's a scandal. A good college would expect work to be set, communicated to the the students, who might then be sent away to work, but would at least have something to do. Don't hold your breath.

This may sound minor, but, as teacher of exam groups, I can assure you it's really, REALLY important.

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