Parents in the North need to be more pushy like their Southern counterparts.

[Sixisthemagicnumber]

According to the BBC breakfast news a new study has found that parents in the North are not pushy enough with their children's education and they need to be more like Southern parents.
Apparently children in the North are doing less well in Secondary school and this is due to their parents not pushing them hard enough.
They haven't even bothered to take into consideration the vast funding differences between schools in the North and the South

[Sixisthemagicnumber]

Nor did they mention other factors including the fact that the South possibly has more graduate parents as a percentage and more children who have come from overseas to study here.

[fourcorneredcircle]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38207685

Although something has changed in this article since I read it yesterday... yesterday there was a paragraph that said something a long the lines of "however, children in the north on average have better mental health and are happier" (I kid you not!)

[Sixisthemagicnumber]

Ooh, I didn't see the web article four, I just heard it on the BBC news on the to. Going to have a read and hope it is more detailed.

[Sixisthemagicnumber]

Thinking about when my son sat his 11+ in the North: 1200 boys turned up on exam day to try and secure one of only 170 places. Some of those boys were under such pressure that they were in tears at the end of the exam and looked dreadful. My son told me that 2 boys out of his room of around 20 boys had been crying during the exams. I don't know how pushy they want some parents to be. A lot of Parents can help their children at primary school level but less so at senior level which is when the North / South divide widens so I would say the problem is more school inequality than parental differences.

[troutsprout]

Did they debate whether parents in the south could do with actually backing off a bit from all that frantic pushing?...for the sake of mental health?

[TheMortificadosDragon]

I read the report in the Times yesterday. Maybe I missed something, because while the blame seemed to be being put on non-pushy northern parents, I didn't see any actual evidence for this. At primary age, NE kids had best well -being and NW kids were the best at verbal reasoning. The attainment gap didn't show up till secondary age. Seems to me that if it was down to the parents that gap would have shown up early.

I wondered if it could be more to do with post-school opportunities. Historically, many northern kids would have found employment in manufacturing industries many of which just don't exist now. Maybe some of them cant see what there is to aspire to? And cost of living can make it hard to move from north to south.

[TheMortificadosDragon]

Just re-read the Times piece - the chief inspector of schools says there is a difference in quality of teaching and school leadership between the south and the midlands and north.

[mumonahottinroof]

I would have thought the most ambitious teachers go south, also the most ambitious families. My friends who've decided to prioritise quality of life over riches have moved north where their £ goes further and good on 'em

[user1469682920]

I too am surprised that, in the current climate where we hear daily reports of spiralling mental health issues, more wasn't made of the one line stating wellbeing is better in the North.

[MumTryingHerBest]

Sixisthemagicnumber A lot of Parents can help their children at primary school level but less so at senior level which is when the North / South divide widens so I would say the problem is more school inequality than parental differences

Try Googling GCSE/A Level tutors. I think you will find there are quite a few around these days ;-)

[KittensKidsAndKisses]

I cannot stand pushy parents.
I understand why they might push but I can't stand it.

What is wrong with letting children be children and discovering the world around them? Let them get muddy, have adventures together, have a chocolate breakfast every now and again. Mine go to sport clubs which they choose to go to because they enjoy it.

They do their homework to their best ability.

I would not force a child to have music/language/extra tuition unless they were severely behind at school for some reason.

If kids are happier and mentally healthier up north than the clever kids down south I know which I'd prefer my kids to be.

[MumTryingHerBest]

user1469682920 I too am surprised that, in the current climate where we hear daily reports of spiralling mental health issues, more wasn't made of the one line stating wellbeing is better in the North.

Few parents I know consider anything more than reputation of the school & SATs / GCSE / A Level results when looking for a school for their DCs.

I've come across a lot of parents who label their DCs as "bright but lazy" and to remedy the problem they have them doing a couple of hours of extra work each night.

I think there is a growing mindset that natural academic ability has nothing to do with academic success, it's all about effort and working hard. Sadly, for a fair number of the lower ability children I know this is resulting in many hours of extra work on top of the school day and homework. I also see many of them dropping extracurricular clubs in order to fit in the extra work.

[PhilODox]

Mumtrying- but it mainly is about working hard, that is what the education system is about. You don't need to be super-able to do GCSE, just get your head down and do the work.
Dropping extra-curricular is counter-productive though, children that do more extra-curricular do better academically.

[ReallyTired]

I think that the issue is that some white working class parents do not see education as a passport to a better life. Many of them were let down educationally as children. White working class children fail in the south east as well.

In someways white working class communities have a lot of good values. Many of them have excellent support from the extended family. White working class area are often more friendly than London.

[Badbadbunny]

I don't know how pushy they want some parents to be.

The ones who are already pushy are fine. They don't need to "push" anymore. It's the parents who basically don't give a toss (or do, but can't be arsed to do anything about it), i.e. those who aren't pushy at all. Those who just let the education system take over and allow their child to be dragged along with it. Those who simply don't value education and can't see the point, other than state childcare for 12-14 years! Those who send their kids to the nearest comp without even considering whether it's a good school or not or whether it suits their kids' needs, without even going to the open days or looking at alternatives.

[ReallyTired]

"Those who send their kids to the nearest comp without even considering whether it's a good school or not or whether it suits their kids' needs, without even going to the open days or looking at alternatives."

Often there is no alternative. They cannot afford the house prices near good schools. Often you have to accept what you are given with council housing. In the uk this leads to schools for the rich and schools for the poor.

In fairness Theresa May wants to get rid of selection by house price by introducing grammar schools. However a lot of bright working class children want to attend the same schools as their friends. Parents often have to find the bus fare for grammar schools.

[Sixisthemagicnumber]

Try Googling GCSE/A Level tutors. I think you will find there are quite a few around these days ;-)

Not everyone can afford tutors. I know my northern area is brimming with Kumon and tutors but even if you can afford not do you really want your child doing hours and hours of additional work in top of school and homework? When do children get downtime? If the schools were good enough then parents wouldn't need to find the time and money for additional tutoring. I do think that parents have some responsibility in supporting their children's education but that shouldn't come down to whether you have the time and money for tutoring.

[TheMortificadosDragon]

I would have thought the most ambitious teachers go south

Why? The payscales are national aren't they (bar london?)

[troutsprout]

I don't think being pushy is fine (neither is not giving a toss obvs)
I don't think standing on the heads of some children just to raise yours above them is fine
I think if more people chose their local comp rather them shipping their kids out of the area ...the local comp might be in better shape.

[Sixisthemagicnumber]

Basically the tv report was saying that parents should be more pushy in helping schools to improve. Since when was that a parents role? Surely it is the role of the govt to ensure that schools are adequately funded and resourced to enable them to provide a decent education to each and every child.
I have always taken an active role in my children's education and noting that one of my children was of grammar school ability I entered him out of catchment for the 11+ and for a couple of private schools, he was offered a place at each school he applied for with full bursaries at the private schools. But I don't consider myself to be pushy and I will not employ a tutor as I think he has enough work to do at school and with his homework. I don't want him working excessive hours and it damaging his mental health.
Where we live there is no choice over schools, otnisnoretty much the local comp or nothing unless you are prepared to go out of catchment and have a sufficiently bright child to pass selective exams (or plenty of money). It really isn't the case that people just choose the local comp even if it is shitty as some people only have the option of the local shitty comp .

[ReallyTired]

Surely there is a happy medium between Asian style tiger parenting and benign neglect. If you set aside half an hour a day five days a week for your child to do school work it does wonders for achievement. Certain tasks like reading, learning spellings or tables need one to one attention. It's not rocket science. There is plenty of time left in the day for play.

[Sixisthemagicnumber]

I agree trout and I do feel guilty for not sending my child to the local comp. It was my son who asked if he could apply for the selective schools as several other children in his class were doing so (not all got in) and I didn't want to deny him the opportunity. I didn't think he would get in as he hasn't been tutored like the vast majority had.

[unlimiteddilutingjuice]

I despair of ever discussing edication with middle class people. Since its their means of both attaining and displaying social status- they find it impossible to think rationally on the subject.

Fwiw: No, i do not think that the very serious and long standing structural inequality between the north and south can be addressed by parents changing their behaviour.

[SixthSenseless]

There is supportive engaged parenting, and there is competitive 'grab the best' parenting.

I am in the SE, London, and I could do with a lot less of the latter. On average, London schools do much better in terms of achievement and VA than the rest of the country. Schools with high numbers of FSM, EAL, living in areas of deprivation in London still outstrip the National Average. And yet (some / many) London parents get into such a state about schools. Tutoring, moving house, fake renting, pursuing scholarship and selective places for schools that, when you take everything into account, deliver the same education to each individual child as a school much closer.

This results in schools that are middle class magnets, and other less favoured schools, and the whole thing gets more and more polarised as people do more and more to try and get a place in the 'Trophy School'.

We could do with a lot less of this, IMO.

[SixthSenseless]

"I despair of ever discussing edication with middle class people. Since its their means of both attaining and displaying social status- they find it impossible to think rationally on the subject. "

I agree, and I am middle class.