How much difference does a good teacher make

[rainbowjoy]

My Dd has been moved down a maths set for the second year running going into year 10 down. She really hated teacher but unfortunately will have him again in this new set. Whilst I believe she could have worked harder and is of the age where nothing is her fault she is very upset about it. I have tried to explain to head of maths the situation but obviously in a year of 300 kids there is little they can do. They wont let her stay in set above. So my question is how much difference does liking a teacher make.

[noblegiraffe]

It shouldn't make any difference.

No school should let a student pick and choose which set they are in based on whether they like the teacher. Your DD needs the standard talk about how in life they will meet plenty of people that they don't like but they will have to work with them regardless.

[SeaRabbit]

I sympathise. Yes we all have to deal with people we don't like later in life, and I can do that now.

I just remember not liking my Latin teacher in 2nd year and getting 28% and coming 28th out of 32 in the exam. I just didn't get Latin. I wanted to drop Latin, but mother insisted I carry on as it was long enough ago for Latin to be an entrance requirement for some universities. The following year, new teacher, whom I liked, 96% & top of the class, and I stayed at the top until I did my O Level.

[Scarydinosaurs]

I would tell her that sometimes not liking the teacher can be a bonus. If she works really hard he or she may only be too pleased to have a decent excuse to move her up sets!

[thecatfromjapan]

Can you get a tutor?

I had one teacher who destroyed my confidence in a subject. I went from a 'D' at 'A' level to a "First' at university in that particular subject (a language), so I would say it can make a fairly substantial difference.

I also had a lovely Maths teacher but I just didn't get along with his teaching style. I failed Maths 'O' level ('u'), bought a book, taught myself and re-took it in the Autumn and achieved a 'B'. Sadly, sometimes it just doesn't 'click' with some pupil-teacher pairings. (Obviously, I should have bought a book and read it before I sat the exam for the first time but it just didn't occur to me that that might have been the root of the problem.)

[MustTidyUpMustTidyUp]

Two different questions. Makes no odds if she likes the teacher. Makes a lot of difference whether or not they are a 'good' teacher.

[Millymollymama]

Well children cannot pick and choose. I think though that you could perhaps ask for a brief meeting with the teacher with your DD too and try and resolve the problems and start again. If everyone agrees to this of course and assuming your DD is mature enough to participate.

In your post you talked about good teaching. Perhaps if you find out what the attributes of a good teacher are and then see if your DD is being unreasonable and not complying with reasonable requests. If the teacher says your DD should hand in work on a given date and she is late handing in the work the teacher may well be annoyed and expect better of her if this pattern is repeated. She does perhaps need to become less lazy and promise to do her best. I suspect that is what the teacher wants and so should you.

[thecatfromjapan]

I agree that the school can't move individual students on the grounds of a presumed animosity. I can't see how that could possibly work.

However, why does she hate the teacher? It seems a strong reaction. What's behind it?

The teacher who destroyed my confidence was being managed out of the school while I was there. I wasn't the first, or the last. There were issues (far larger than her relationship with me or the other students she targeted,) that the school were very aware of.

Or could it be that she is dealing with self-esteem issues by disliking the teacher? In that case, a tutor really could help. A different relationship through which to negotiate a subject she lacks confidence in, plus some one to one attention bring about a real change for her.

[rainbowjoy]

She can't give me a definite answer but just doesn't like him which is frustrating, We have agreed to try and get on head down and try to move up again. Moving down a set a year is worrying but don't know how much I can blame on bad teaching if any. He was new to the school this year I was just hoping for a different teacher this year. Perhaps as suggested a sit down with the teacher is required but Dd would hate that. Will think about a tutor will have to look at costs

[Foxyloxy1plus1]

I think if your child responds well to a teacher, it is positive. My son did better than expected in Maths because he really liked the teacher and worked hard for him. My daughter had an English teacher to whom she responded well in Year 10 and was on course for A at GCSE. He left at the end of Year 10 and she didn't like the replacement. A drop in grade was the result. However, she should have tried to ignore the fact that she didn't like the second teacher and maintained the work ethic. Her choice not to.

As teachers, we always reminded the students to choose exam options on the basis of their interest in the subject and not because of their response to the teacher.

Everyone will have to deal with people they don't particularly get on well with, at some point.

[Troutius183]

In all subjects other than maths and science, I would suggest that having a good teacher is paramount to success. However, given the factual nature of these subjects, it is more than possible for a child to learn them from the internet, such examsolutions and youtube.

[TheAussieProject]

Sadly I think liking or not liking the teacher has a huge impact on learning. You like them, you suck every word they say. You hate them, you spend the hour saying "I hate you, I hate you or bla bla bla".
Luckily there are nowadays tons of resources on the internet

[2catsfighting]

Agree with previous posters that a good teacher is not necessarily the same as a teacher you like. However, a child will work better with a teacher they feel comfortable with, the same way we as adults find it easier to.
What is she like at Maths generally?
Is it one of those chicken/egg situations where she isn't confident in the subject, and is anxious about the teacher as well which is getting in the way of her learning?

[larrygrylls]

I read a paper saying a good teacher vs an average one can make two grades difference I.E an E to a C or a C to an A. So, considerable, but not infinite.

On the other hand, if a pupil or set takes against a teacher, they can easily destroy their own learning, regardless of a teacher's ability. I am sure most of us can remember doing badly on purpose just to annoy a teacher at some point in our school careers.

Troutius,

I would say Maths is the least 'factual' subject and is very dependent on application of knowledge. It is far easier to learn History or Geography from the internet. Having said that, some students do like internet learning as they can control the pace of the lesson. It is behind the (much talked about but little used) concept of the 'flipped' classroom.

[Sadik]

"As teachers, we always reminded the students to choose exam options on the basis of their interest in the subject and not because of their response to the teacher."
Only up to a point, I'd say. DD almost certainly won't take geography because of the teacher. She likes him, but says she learns very little in his classes, because so much time is taken up with chat about rugby, watching tangentially relevant videos etc. The other subject she's considering has one very dynamic (and stricter) teacher, and she thinks she'll learn much more. I think that's perfectly sensible given she has limited option spaces available.

[noblegiraffe]

We advise students not to pick subjects on the basis of the teacher rather than interest in the subject because they may not get the teacher they are hoping for, or that teacher may leave. Then they will be stuck with a subject they aren't that bothered about.

[cricketballs]

Sadik - the teacher your DD has based her limited options on could leave at Christmas; what will your DD think then?

[Sadik]

Unlikely, Cricketballs - he's the HoD and has been there for years, I should imagine it's very improbable he'll leave before retirement. The thing is, she's going to end up with effectively only one free option choice after the things she's 100% certain about, and there's four subjects she'd like to take just about equally - so why not take the current state of play with teachers into account.

[bigTillyMint]

Having 2 DC at secondary school, I now realise just how important a good teacher is. And I disagree about it not being important that they like the teacher - both have always done much better with teachers they like, and they generally like the good ones. DD (just done GCSE's ) got the best results with teachers who were good (and she liked!)

[Sadik]

I'd agree about generally liking the good teachers - unsurprisingly, dd likes the lovely smiley energetic young teachers, but she also likes the strict, organised older teachers who make sure work gets done in their class & that there's no mucking around.

[YeOldeTrout]

Bad teachers can make a huge difference. DD has completely lost confidence when she had a bad teacher at subjects she later thrived at when she had a good or merely ordinary teacher.

I guess bad teacher = poor empathy, low patience, unhelpful examples & not interested in explaining more.

[Millymollymama]

If you cannot say, OP, why your DD hates the teacher and would also hate to have a meeting with them to sort out how they can get on better this year, I think, sadly, she is immature and probably her "hatred" is an immature response but also manipulative to get what she wants. I would try and get her to be more positive. I don't expect the teacher will be thrilled to see her again this year either!

[2catsfighting]

But of course she is immatureMillymollymandy, she is 14!

[Millymollymama]

In my experience, there are children at 14 who are perfectly capable of rationalising why they have a problem with someone and then trying to find a solution when guidance is offered.

[BackforGood]

I think liking / not liking a teacher makes a HUGE difference - probably to most of us, but particularly to teens.
However you can't ask to be moved to a different set because you don't like, or don't get on with the teacher.
It's more a case of what you can say to help her or to motivate her now.

If you felt he was a poor teacher, or lacked discipline, or didn't explain things well enough or there were some actual issue with the way he taught, then by all means speak to the HoD, but just having a bit of a personality clash, or 'not finding him interesting' or whatever, just happens sometimes - as it does throughout life... you get bosses you love, bosses you don't particularly like but you respect, and, bosses that are unfair or unkind or rude. Often though, it's just a case of not particularly getting on with them, you just have to get on with it.